Talk:The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker/Archive 1

Archive 1

Request

Can someone include the original screenshots of when this was first shown off at spaceworld? Link looked even more stylized then he does in the final game.

Will look into this if I remember to. I guess publicly-released screenshots have no copyright, right? (Master Thief Garrett, 12:10, 13 Apr 2005, GMT)

Wikipedia policy is that screenshots inherently fall under fair use. 68.47.234.131 23:42, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I wouldnt say the art style was anything close to anime-style, in fact that's why i -didn't- like it so much. I mean if that's chibi, then so is every 'toon' in america.

First of all, the wording of the first paragraph is a bit wrong: "(...) the introduction of new items such as the Grappling Hook and Deku Leaf were added." I suppose technically there weren't any introductions before, but I doubt that's what the sentence is meant to say. Secondly, I'm pretty sure Ocarina of Time already featured a Grappling Hook, although it might have a different function now...? Retodon8

Yes, there have been grappling devices before--ALttP introduced the Hookshot that has since featured in later games--but the Grappling Hook in this case is a proper "hook" with rope and all, and probably operates differently (I've never played TWW). But certainly a mention could be made that it's the intellectual descendant of the Hookshot.

Remember, the idea with Wikipedia is that if you see something wrong you can change it. Just feel free to correct anything and everything to the way you want it, and if others don't like an edit they'll change it some more. Just be bold and go wild! :) Master Thief Garrett^Talk 6 July 2005 21:59 (UTC)

The hookshot is in TWW as well. The grappling hook has a three pronged claw and can be used for either hooking round branches or similar features and swinging from them, or thrown at enemies to steal spoils, hearts and other things. It can also be used on the boat to pull up treasure chests from the sea floor. The hookshot is pretty much the same as in OoT and MM from what I recall. Ian Moody 7 July 2005 07:24 (UTC)

By now I have almost finished TWW and discovered the Hookshot as well. I didn't realise it was included, and something different from the Grappling Hook (although like Ian Moody mentioned, it does work differently). The only other Zelda I played is OOT, quite a while ago, and I think you started out with a Hookshot, later upgraded to a Longshot, both different from the GH. I am ignorant no more. :) (I'm going to edit the strange sentence now.)

About the WW second quest.. Are there any other differences from the first other than the clothes of link and his sis, the DX camera, location of treasures, and the ability to understand Hylian? Do any of those things make the game worth playing again? I'm just a Zelda fanboy who needs to know!! Thanks 198.31.162.65 08:33, 18 October 2005 (UTC) hey everybody! i added the names of islands on a map supplied by www.z64planet.com (p.s u guys rock!) damn! wouldnt work! 0 well cyaz!

I think the clothes and Hylian alone was reason enough to replay, especially when the game's so much fun in the first place, but each to their own. Deco 00:20, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Someone should change the main character... the main character is NOT link. He is a descendant of the hylian family. (im too lazy to read through it all and chage it on my own. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.77.120.175 (talk • contribs) .

I think you will find he is Link, none of the Links who appear throughout the series are known to be blood relatives, its kind of a mixture of fate and the Hyrulian gods who Link turns out to be/recieves the triforce of courage.

Wikibooks

wikibooks:The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker is in need of serious work. I have fixed some of the lists, but the main text of the walkthrough contains many inappropriate comments, language and needless spoilers. Lots of help is needed! ~ Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 01:17, 2005 July 20 (UTC)

Just a note to say that the Zelda WikiBook has been deleted. I think it was a copyvio, however all videogame guides are being deleted on Jimbo's orders anyway. People are free to stat the guide at WikiKnowledge instead if they wish. Gerard Foley 18:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Images

This article lacks images; the one that currently sits in the article is not very flavoured as it displays the backside of Link. If a screenshot demonstrating the use of cell-shading should be present in the article, I believe that it should, in the least, feature Link facing the camera. If not, perhaps an up-close-and-personal view point from the protagonist's eyes could be desirable. Also, an image of The Great Sea in general would add flavour to the article (one similar to that of Majora Mask's Image:Termina Field.jpg). A map of The Great Sea (one similar to that of Majora Mask's Image:Termina.jpg) would also be rewarding. Personally, I believe that an image of the King of Red Lions should be included as well, considering that he supplies a major role in Wind Waker. Any thoughts, suggestions? 64.231.179.130 02:23, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I have included the same fair use rationale on the screenshot Image:Zelda wind waker.jpg that our delirious friend placed on the images in the Majora's Mask article. Any objections, comments, suggestions? 64.231.179.130 02:35, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh really?

"The whimsical look was also compared to the similar style of A Link to the Past and promotional artwork from previous Zelda games." Does anybody have a source for this claim? It seems like both POV and factual inaccuracy to me. Wind Waker looks nothing like A Link to the Past, and I don't remember promotional art from any previous Zelda game looking anything like Wind Waker. 68.47.234.131 03:13, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Wow, the one sentence I don't put a footnote on. (kidding) I didn't say they looked the same, I said they were compared. I did take the word similar out, that was misleading. What is currently note 7 (Mirabella III, Fran, May 22, 2002.) compares WW to the world of Link to the Past and Miyamoto remarks in this interview about matching box art styles. If you remember the drawings of Link and other characters from the time of the original Legend of Zelda, they were drawn like cartoons, as opposed to the more realistic Link of Ocarina of Time character sketches. Persons would write letters to the editors of game sites complaining about how WW looks like a kiddy cartoon, and they would be reminded that Link started as a cartoon. I'm sure you can find some articles or letters sections mentioning this if you do a litle research. I don't understand why you feel the sentence is POV, though. I'm not saying that being compared to those things is good or bad, just that it happened. --Pagrashtak 06:45, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

They were never 'cartoonish' though. Link's always looked like he'd fit in in most 70s anime, in the 2d games' official art. The in-game screens for Link's Awakening were more chibi anime, but still. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.122.63.142 (talk) 18:28, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Takt

A.f.a.I k., takt isn't an English word, even if it's on the Japanese box, it's useless as an English translation.

True, it's not an English word. The inclusion in the article is a representation of the title as given on the Japanese box, not an English translation. Writing "Baton of Wind" would be speculation, as multiple translations based on Kaze no Takuto were given prior to the official English subtitle. --Pagrashtak 04:41, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

That's because takuto was an uncertain word, difficult to translate with other possible meanings like wand. But the "translation" proves that they meant it to translate as takt, which has a very specific meaning: a conductor's baton. -- WikidSmaht (talk) 13:55, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

It's a pretty obscure word, though. Most reference sites either have nothing at all about it or have something different to what is apparently meant by it (Encarta, for example, lists it as either a musical direction or 'beat' or 'bar'). It may be the most appropriate word, but it could do with some explanation in the article. There's no point in including the translation if nobody's going to understand it. — TheJames 23:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

"タクト" (takuto = takt) is a Japanese word of German origin. "Takt" is the German word for "bar" (when talking about music). However, in Japanese it has an entirely different meaning: It is a synonym for the word "指揮棒" (shiki･bō) and means "baton". Prime Blue 06:51, 14 July 2007 (GMT)

I have made a change

I made a change involving the gaps in the wind waker story and the ocariana of time story. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pandemonic Reaper (talk • contribs) .

The edit I made was changed back and i would like to ask if it would be more apropriet to put it some where ells? PD Reaper.

Read the edit summary in history. It says speculation or original research, which is not allowed. There were also many mispellings and other grammatical errors in your text. (I'm not the one who made the changes.) 70.142.40.34 15:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Castle or Temple?

One Question, was the building at the bottom of Hyrule, which stored the master sword, Hyrule Castle or the Temple of Time? The upstairs was decorated like a castle might be, but stored the mastle sword & was decorated downstairs with stain glass as the Temple of Time. Also, Ganon rebuilt his tower at a nearby site, similair to OoT.--Wikiphilia 20:33, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Nintendo's official walkthrough here calls it "Hyrule Castle" in the section "Get the Master Sword", and a "palace" in the section "Enter Ganon's Tower"; the official game site here calls it Hyrule Castle. You'd be pushed to find something more official than that... Setokaiba^✌_≝ 11:31, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Ninth in Series?

The first paragraph mentions that this is the ninth game in the series, but looking at release dates it was actually the tenth (Four Swords being the ninth). Other articles about the series on wikipedia also count this as the tenth game, so should this be changed? Happyjoe5 15:27, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

You're correct. Changed JackSparrow Ninja 20:23, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

two things

i've noticed that this page seems to say nothing about the initial anger from zelda fans due to the vast graphical changes also, the images make it hard to avoid the spoilers, like the one at the end of the synopsis shows the end of the game its easy to not read something its hard not to look at the picture —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ne0g (talk • contribs) .

Not that many Zelda fans were that shallow. Most found it at most surpising or unexpected, so it's not really something that needs to be said in the article.128.211.254.142 10:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Regardless, it was highly controversial (amongst Zelda fans or not). Personally, I think it should be added to outline the media reception from the development, and the gradual process of cell-shading going from immature to excellent, and how this possibly affected sales, it also affected the art choice for Twilight Princess, as Nintendo wanted to satisfy old fans with a more traditional style. Ashnard _talk 14:14, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Art style

Given how controversial and unique it is, doesn't the game's art direction deserve its own section?--67.168.44.226 03:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Also has more East Asian styling to it, compared to the more 'traditional western fantasy' the other Zelda games have. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.126.179.104 (talk • contribs).

removed text

A few years ago, Nintendo revealed that they had in fact cut two full dungeons out of the final half of the game in order to make the December release date because they weren't up to their high standards. <ref>{{cite web | title=The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Review | publisher=GameFAQs reviewer | date=[[2006]] | url=http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/review/R107426.html}} | accessdate=2006-11-21}}</ref>

I'm pretty sure (direct lifts from) GameFAQs reviews aren't reliable sources. Plus, the fact it's a direct lift leaves the article open to copyright violation. And it's kind of bad writing. ~~ Gromreaper^(Talk)/_(Cont) 04:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Line removal

Though it can be seen in the edit history, I removed the line "popularized by other such games as Jet Set Radio and the Sly Cooper series of games." The reason for this is, despite them being true references to cel-shading, only Jet Set Radio had been released by the time the SpaceWorld demo was shown. Jet Set Radio on its own didn't popularize the technique either. So this has no relevance to the developmental history of this game.Veridicum 05:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

About the Great Sea article

On the Great Sea article, I added a ton of information about the islands in this game, and I was wondering if anybody could find some pictures of the islands I added to add to the article. If you could do that, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you!Dementus 01:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Still Requesting Help

OK, I'm still wondering if somebody can help out with the Great Sea page by adding pictures of the islands I wrote about. AND BEFORE YOU DELETE THIS, PLEASE READ THIS: I know this is not the Great Sea page, but the Great Sea page gets almost no traffic whatsoever, so I basically figured if I want some quick results, I should go to the Wind Waker page because it gets more traffic and the Great Sea is more closely associated with it. I'm not trying to cause trouble, I'm just trying to be productive. Thank you. Dementus 13:20, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

The only thing I have to take screenshots with is a digital camera, but I might know some people who can get screenshots. Do you want screenshots of the islands (with Link actually on the islands?) or pictures of the islands as they appear on Link's Sea Chart? Davidjcobb (guest) 68.55.215.173

I added some more content to the Great Sea article

I put in an entire section about the dungeons, and I did some formatting changes for the headings and subheadings in the islands section. If someone wants to double-check my work to make sure it is up to par, that would be great. Dementus 04:31, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I've checked and edited some of the parts of the dungeon section, it's good, but needs improvement, it needs more of an encyclopaedic tone, something like "dark and creepy" is not encyclopaedic. You could put more information in the dungeons, like commenting on the theme of the dungeons, like the theme of the puzzles, and what they involve. There is also some simple errors, you state something like: "strangely, the moving slabs defy gravity" When many dungeons in the Zelda series involve this, so it isn't specific to this dungeon. And you state something like: "The Tower of Gods can be seen from most of the Great Sea" when this is obviously wrong. Keep up the good work though, just try to think more about what you're writing, I'll keep a watch on the page. Ashnard _talk 09:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't remember that many gravity-defying platforms anywhere else in the game, the Tower of the Gods had them all over the place. As for the Earth Temple, I know "dark and creepy" doesn't exactly sound professional, but that is basically what the feel of the dungeon was, like the Shadow Temple in OOT.

And the Tower of the Gods can be seen from almost anywhere in the Great Sea. You can see it from Outset Island, you can see it from Windfall Island, you can see it from the Forest Haven, and you can see it from Dragon Roost. Dementus 22:31, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't get touchy about it, I'm trying to help improve your editing, that gravity-defying thing probably wasn't your edit if you don't remember it. I don't care about how it feels, some games feel like glitchy, crappy wastes of money, but I don't put that down, keep an encyclopaedic tone. As for the Tower of Gods, I highly doubt it can be seen from almost everywhere, I don't recall being able to see it from Outset island. Remember, I'm giving you constructive criticism . Ashnard _talk 22:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't getting touchy, I was just defending what I had written in that article. Emotions aren't portrayed very well on the internet. I don't resent your commenting on my work, I was hoping that somebody would.

All I meant was that the Earth Temple is one of those places that the developers meant to be creepy, like the Shadow Temple from OOT or the Arbiter's Grounds from TP, but I understand that "dark and creepy" doesn't exactly sound professional, so I'll replace that with "haunted."

The Tower of the Gods can be seen from many places, and I recall seeing it all the way from Great Fish Island. The only places I couldn't see it from were the easternmost islands. As for the hovering platforms, I'm pretty certain that there weren't any hovering platforms in any of the other dungeons. Other dungeons like Dragon Roost Cavern and the Earth Temple had platforms hanging from chains, but not hovering. Dementus 23:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I can't be bothered going on my Wind Waker and checking the Tower, so I can't really argue on that one, eventhough I still doubt it. As for the platforms, I meant that the Zelda seies, not just the Windwaker was full with these hovering tiles, so it isn't really an odd circumstance, and is really customary in the Zelda series. Sorry for the "touchy" comment, it turned out I was the one being touchy and you were alright. I still doubt the Tower of God comment though, I'll check tomorrow. Ashnard _talk 23:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Eh, no big deal. I just remember when I was playing the game that the Tower of the Gods was visible from an extreme distance. It's not really a big deal............man, we must be Zelda nerds to be debating about something so inconsequential. Dementus 23:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it's stupid, but we should be proud of our Zelda geekdom, wih a series that good, it needs devoted fans, by the way, I've left my response to the MM request on my talk page, sorry. Ashnard _talk 23:31, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I have some stuff I might add (if it's a good idea), things like, for example, being more specific about gameplay in the Earth Temple (mentioning that Link often has to let Medli fly him across ledges or mind-control her and activate switches, fly, and reflect light with her harp). Oh, and about the Tower, I don't think it's technically possible to see it all the way from Outset; at a certain distance, the game takes it out of memory, replacing it with a 2D silhouette; the skybox (or more correctly, the "weird set of chopped up funky-shaped polygons that is oddly-shaped to make the sky look 3D"[1]) follows Link so at a different distance, the Tower would actually be outside the sky and would be removed from memory entirely. Oh, and I, too, am proud of my Zelda geekness. Davidjcobb (Guest)

You confirmed what I knew all along, David (about the tower). Ashnard _talk 07:55, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Where is this Great Sea article? I can't find it, when I look for it, I just end up on the Hyrule page. 91.105.96.56 (talk) 19:47, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Is this English class?

I was wondering why basically every word in the article links to another wiki article, even if it doesn't involve the game in any way. The words "sail", "wind", and "baton" are linked twice. Other words like "bombs", "temple", "rooftop", "wings", "ocean", etc are linked. Are we trying to teach people how to speak English here? There's no reason why any English speaker who reads this article shouldn't know what all these things are. --IronMaidenRocks 02:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

There is a difference between knowing the meaning of something and wanting to know more about it, on Wikipedia, most people know what they are being linked to, but don't know enough about it. It is an encyclopaedia - not a dictionary. Ashnard _talk 09:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

How is that justifaction for linking every word in the article? If people are looking to find out what an ocean is they don't need to see it through The Wind Waker article. The purpos of linking is to show related material, not to give the wind article hits. Also, many of the links convey the wrong idea. If you link household rooftops when refering to the top of Ganon's tower, as is done in the article, it will generate confusion. The funniest example is the "sandworm" link, a stub article about fishing bait, when refering to a giant worm boss. --IronMaidenRocks 19:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I cleaned it up as best I could. I may have linked or unlinked the incorrect text, and I'm sure I missed a few. Gannon was linked about 5 times. You don't need that many links to the same thing. Please don't link to the biological makeup of eyes and things like that. It has nothing to do with the article. It just wastes space, diverts attention, and makes the article look sloppy. --IronMaidenRocks 20:07, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Where did I excuse it?! I was just pointing out a flaw in his statement; especially more relevant since it's labeled "Is this English Class?". I wasn't actually stating that he was wrong, nice work on the fix though, well done. Ashnard _talk 21:20, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about that. Yeah, I usually wiki when I'm half asleep, so I'm angry and not very coherent. Its kind of like drinking and driving, but with Zelda and sleepiness. --IronMaidenRocks 11:43, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

No problem, at least you actually bothered to note it on the discussion page. Thanks. Ashnard _talk 19:51, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Hang on, I just stepped into this conversation, and I want to make sure that I read that right. Did you say that someone made a link from the section on Molgera, the giant worm boss, to fishing bait?! Who the frickin' hey uses hooks that big?! Bucky 22:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree. In the future we should point out WP:CONTEXT because at the very least a fishing lure and a giant worm boss are not in the same context or a link about rooftops when we talk about the top of Ganon's castle. It also warns against overlinking meaning that there Ganon should never be linked 5 times. --67.71.76.30 03:56, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Kiddy Game? Oh, please!

There are a few innuendos in this game (not sexual ones, well, maybe, but I'll have to re-examine the text) Ganondorf says "now return to the evil world below," when he is about to kill (not so mellow after all, eh?) Link. He is obviously talking about hell (excuse me). If you find any more, anyone, please tell me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.111.223.110 (talk) 00:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC).

These people who label it a kiddies game get on my nerves, but still, I don't see how these type of quotes can find place in the article. Ashnard _talk 10:30, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't remember that line. I remember it being "Now return to the world below and tell them [that the Master Sword has lost it's power]," where the world below refers to Hyrule. But yeah, kiddie game is a bad label for it, especially when you remember that Tingle is in that game. Bucky 18:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll say! But I thought about it, and you may be right. But, then again, Ganondorf had no idea that Hyrule still existed (correct me if I'm wrong). And even if he did, he likely remembers Hyrule's destruction. Those men would've been dead.

I'm fairly certain that he had a good recolection of Hyrule being flooded, and I would imagine that he had a sneeky suspicion that it still existed, since that's where he was trapped until the beginning of WindWaker. Maybe it's just me. Bucky 19:22, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

If you remember when you find out who Zelda is (for those of you who haven't played it I won't ruin it for you) Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule says that Ganondorf has erected a barrier around Hyrule castle and that you must search the above world to find the entrance to the Earth and Wind temples. (And there is barrier around the castle that you can see while there as well) That proves that Ganondorf knew about Hyrule and was trying to stop the next hero from restoring the Master Sword. Kou Nurasaka 17:05, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

The Earth Temple with its ReDeads and Poe ghosts and Stalfos and Jalhalla will scare little kids!--Sonic,Pikachu,and Snorunt 21:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Beedle would have been enough to scare them anyway. He's so strange, yet still funny. Ashnard _Talk 21:27, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Soon they'll add a scary clown enemy that'll try to eat Link! Then people won't play that game and Nintendo will ban that game because people don't want to relive that It movie.And Beedle is funny:)--Sonic,Pikachu,and Snorunt 22:46, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

About the Ganondorf final battle...

Should it be worth noting that in the final battle with Ganondorf and the ending that both Zelda and Ganondorf still have their respective Triforce marks on their hands? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.32.234.217 (talk) 23:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC).

No. It's not really part of the story, and is likely just due to using the same character models. I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it. JDub90 17:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with JDub90. The reason they still had the Triforce on thier hand is due to the fact that Nintendo probably just reused the charecter models. Kou Nurasaka 17:05, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Goddesses' Pearls

I've changed this as it was "Goddess' Pearls", which would mean pearls from one goddess. "Goddesses' Pearls" however, means pearls from more than one goddess. Ashnard _Talk ^Contribs 15:13, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Story area length.

I was just reading through this article, and, while on the story section, I noticed that suddenly the text was becoming very over-detailed. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, often it's very nice, but that particular portion reads somewhat like a fan fiction/game guide combo. Personally, I don't want to read a complete play by play of the story, and Wikipedia doesn't really need one. I, having never played the game, am in no possition to suggest what should be removed. I'm not trying to force anyone to think like me, but the article doesn't need to be the way it is. Check out the WP:NOT#GUIDE for a rought idea of how to move forward.

Tomoki 21:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

The dungeons that were removed

It would be nice if someone with knowledge and sources on the dungeons that were removed during development could put info about that in the Development section.--84.217.179.231 17:59, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know a whole lot about this, but I've heard things about how Ice Ring Isle and Fire Mountain were once meant to be islands and dungeons of their own, like the islands the Earth and Wind Temples are in (i.e. to have a fire/water/earth/wind theme, like The Minish Cap). Any information on this will likely need a source, though. Haipa Doragon (talk) 19:26, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Look what I found!

See [2]: It seems that a Korean game called Wiki was plagiarizing Wind Waker in visual terms; can someone find more sources about this? Happy editing. Twicemost 20:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Seems little more than coincidence in terms of character similarity; note the customizability feature they've announced. And I really don't think similar graphical style is copyright infringement; I doubt Nintendo have even copyrighted TWW's graphical style. Haipa Doragon (talk) 20:57, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

It was also from Ferurary 2005 so I think we would have heard somthing by now if there was a lawsutit. --69.156.207.66 (talk) 05:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Sections order

Practicly all video game articles have the sections as Gameplay > Plot and then ect. A setting section (under the plot) should also be added as this takes place outside the normal Hyrule setting. This article should follow. Why is this so hard to swallow?→041744 22:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

There is no set order for video game sections. Each article should be individually structured for the benefit of the reader. In the case of this article, the reader can better understand the Gameplay section after a basic knowledge of the plot. For other games this may not be the case. The setting is already covered in the Plot section. Pagrashtak 00:17, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

What game does the legend speak of?

When you start a new file, the legend is told of a boy garbed in green who traveled through time to save Hyrule and destroy Ganon, but he never returned. Everyone thinks this is talking about The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time (even Eiji Aonuma said this during an interview) after the adult ending in the split time line theory, but The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker gives clues to disprove this. After you complete the tower of the gods temple, the King of Red Lions elaborates on the legend; He says that the Hero left on another quest. If The Wind Waker took place after the adult ending in the split time line theory, the King of Red Lions would have said that the hero disappeared and that the hero was a man (not a boy). He also said that the Hero recieved the triforce of courage, this never happened in the Ocarina of Time, Link recieved the triforce of courage in Zelda II: The Adventure of Link.

Can someone please explain this to me? Wiitbred 16:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

It's simple; you found a contradiction between the game deveoper and the game itself. I'm not sure that it's notable, but if it is, I wouldn't know how to include it. You should ask someone smarter than me. Larrythefunkyferret 00:14, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a forum. ' 02:13, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler Image

My edit was reverted, claiming "Spoilers are not a reason to remove content." Has this ever been stated in Wikipedia policy? Having an image of the game's climactic moment blatantly shown underneath its info box is ridiculous. In my entire time on Wikipedia I've never seen such an instance where a person could have clicked on an article and immediately have the end of any film, graphic novel or video game visually spoiled for him. This should absolutely be reconsidered. Sansjason (talk) 13:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Spoiler and Wikipedia:Content disclaimer. Pagrashtak 15:18, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

First Sea?

The intro claims that this is the first Zelda game with a sea. Oracle of Ages definitely has a sea. Am I misinterpreting this or should this be changed? Sir Akroy (talk) 22:35, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't say it's the first Zelda game with a sea. It says it's the first Zelda game set on a group of islands in a vast sea. Pagrashtak 01:48, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Zelda Wind Waker Link waves goodbye.jpg

Image:Zelda Wind Waker Link waves goodbye.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 03:19, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Merge in Soundtrack article

It would make this article more comprehensive and eliminate a stub article that probably wont grow. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 03:27, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

For the first time in like, ever, I actually agree with you. Merge them, but please keep most of the information from the Soundtrack article. Knowitall (talk) 09:54, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

yay :) Actually I'm going to keep it all, people can trim it if they see fit. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:24, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Sales figures

"As of July 2006, The Wind Waker is the 13th highest-selling game of the 21st century in the United States, with 2.2 million copies sold.[29]"

How is this at all relevant? It might have been interesting in July of 2006, but there have been so many big selling games since then that this figure is essentially meaningless. For one, the rank has completely changed. Also, Wind Waker has probably sold at least a few copies since July 2006.

The sentence should either be removed or updated. Probably removed, since it'll just become obsolete again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.168.213.233 (talk) 05:33, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

That would constitute removing the only sales information we have for America. Old info > No info. - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:22, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

According to VG Chartz, Wind Waker has sold 2.58M in America as of December 2008 and 4.55M worldwide total. It is nowhere near being #13 in 21st century anymore. This section should be rworked or removed. http://vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?sort=america —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.226.218.130 (talk) 14:12, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

VG Chartz isn't generally considered a reliable source; see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games#VG Chartz for more info. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 20:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

The 4koma manga

There was an eight chapter series of 4koma manga following the story of this game released some time ago. Shouldn't that fact be noted somewhere in the article? - 4.156.54.118 (talk) 00:08, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to put it in as soon as you provide proof of its existence. It would probably fit best under the Legacy section. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 06:16, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Removing part of story section

Several paragraphs of text have been recently added to the story section by lanfarkas9. They contain frequent spelling errors, and are overly detailed for a section that is quite long to begin with. While I could salvage the spelling and polish the grammar so it sounds less like it was written by an elementary school student, the story section seems long enough so I'm just going to remove the addition.Smooth Nick (talk) 12:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Tracklisting of soundtrack

I edited the name of track 6 which is grandpa's house. I translated the name (祖父さんの家) from japanese and it translates to "house of grandfather" noting that there is no grandpa in the game I point out that this track is the music played in Sturgeon's house (the old guy who lives above Orca, Orca teaches you how to use the sword) 121.209.196.154 (talk) 14:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

A wise, all-knowing editor once told me that official policy is to use Japanese translations only when an official English title does not exist. Example, the article on Link to the Past uses the English title Link to the Past instead of the Japanese title Triforce of the Gods. If Grandpa's House is the official English title of that track, then issue resolved. However, logic and experience dictate that the title is more likely to be Sturgeons House, if that is indeed where it's played. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 04:59, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

"Tetra's Brawl Ship"

The Pirate Ship in Super Smash Bros Brawl is NOT Tetra's ship., I changed the description of the Wind Waker influenced stage and somebody changed it back.

One look at the ship will tell you that it is not Tetra's Ship, so why is Wikipedia lying? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.32.183.87 (talk) 20:36, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

It is original research to assume it is something else based on what you think it is; the source is official and much more reliable. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 21:12, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I do believe that Brawl calls it her ship. - A Link to the Past (talk) 21:49, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

neutrality of reception section

I feel that Eisai Dekisugi's changes to the reception section remove too much of the negative criticism of the game and does not provide a balanced view. I prefer the established version, which seems much more neutral. Pagrashtak 14:43, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

First, "favorably noted the gameplay similarities to Ocarina of Time" "IGN advised gamers to "forget that Wind Waker looks totally different from Ocarina of Time" since "these two games are very much alike"." These should be removed because this article is about The Wind Waker, and noting similarities to a previous game is not a important part of a review. The characteristic of Wind Waker itself should be focused.

"that had initially met a cold reception." This should be removed because this includes original research, many reviewers praised the cel-shaded art style.

"despite claims that it lacks the sense of newness that accompanied Ocarina of Time, the first 3D Zelda game."

This page shows the famitsu review.

■ゼルダの伝説 風のタクト（ニンテンドーゲームキューブ、2002年12月13日発売：任天堂）

●バカタール加藤 『オカリナ』の衝撃に勝るとも劣らない驚き。画期的に新しいのに『ゼルダ』らしさもしっかり。そこがスゴイ。写実的リアルともアニメとも違う、新次元のゲーム的表現がここにある。物語も大海原を舞台にかつてない旅が展開。やり応えも、しっかり『ゼルダ』。本気でやるしか！

●針生セット トゥーンレンダリングという表現方法を触媒に、ゲーム性、世界観、演出などが奇跡のような化学反応を遂げた最上級の作品。ビデオゲームはもっとも優れているエンターテインメントである、ということを確信する。何をするのも楽しい。この世界を愛さずにはいられなくなるはず。

●深見参段 アニメーションのように表現された世界に一抹の不安を覚えるも、プレイするとそれは紛れもなく『ゼルダ』でした。とくに、目の動きで登場人物の感情が手に取るようにわかり、ときには心を揺さぶられ泣きそうになることも。謎解きや戦闘も適度な難度で、やり応えも十分です！

●カミカゼ長田 イベントに喜怒哀楽し、謎解きに悩み、表現に驚く。そして、ゲームを進めていくたびに増幅するワクワク感。まるで初めてゲームをプレイする子供のように、心を揺さぶられました。シリーズ未経験者でもすんなり入り込める親切設計が、違和感なく随所に盛り込まれている点も◎。

None of them state "it lacks the sense of newness that accompanied Ocarina of Time, the first 3D Zelda game." They completely praised the game, so the praises should be showed.--Eisai Dekisugi (talk) 18:04, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• "noting similarities to a previous game is not a important part of a review"—apparently IGN disagrees with you. In their review, two of the three paragraphs of the lead section are about the success of Ocarina and saying of The Wind Waker "has a lot to live up to". We need to reflect the importance that the professional reviewers give to this comparison.
• "This should be removed because this includes original research, many reviewers praised the cel-shaded art style." It's not original research, it's discussed in the development section. Again from IGN, "The cartoony presentation shocked gamers when Nintendo unveiled it for the first time and sure enough some long-time Zelda fanatics even swore off the franchise because of it."
• Famitsu review—this was cited in the article. If you'd check the citation—"The reviewers commented that even though the game doesn't duplicate the "shock" and newness players felt when first entering the Zelda universe in the third dimension (Ocarina of Time)..."

Pagrashtak 19:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• This article is about wind waker. ocarina of time is irrelevant here. IGN is not a only reviewer.
• Just "some long-time Zelda fanatics" swore off the franchise because of it, it does not mean "that had initially met a cold reception.".
• The IGN statement is a mistake, as I showed above, None of them state "it lacks the sense of newness that accompanied Ocarina of Time, the first 3D Zelda game." They completely praised the game.--Eisai Dekisugi (talk) 19:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I just don't understand why you feel we can't mention critic's comparisons to other video games. If Roger Ebert called a movie a "modern-day Casablanca", for example, I think that would be fair game for a reception section. From GameSpot: "While some people thought that this was a refreshing look...many were concerned with the direction this game would take." From GiantBomb: "...caused much controversy among many, splitting the fanbase, some viewing it as childish..." How about we change it to "mixed reception". Regarding the IGN/Famitsu situation, I don't read Japanese. A Babelfish translation isn't very useful, but is something in that first sentence that looks like it could be along the lines of this being a new title, but the same Zelda. If you have a source with an English translation it would be helpful. Otherwise, Wikipedia doesn't cover the truth, it covers what is verifiable. Pagrashtak 22:02, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I also fail to get why a comparison to a previous title is not relevant. How it stands up in the grand scheme of things is incredibly relevant. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

• Being similar to a previous game is a very minor thing. Wind waker is similar to ocarina of time, so what? It is not notable.
• Just some amateurs' reaction is not notable.
• Actually, the reviewers state it is very new.

『オカリナ』の衝撃に勝るとも劣らない驚き。 This sentence states "The impact is as big as that of ocarina of time"

画期的に新しいのに『ゼルダ』らしさもしっかり。 This sentence states "epoch-makingｌｙ new, but zelda feeling surely exists"

I think IGN mistranslated. According to Wikipedia:Verifiability, we can use Non-English sources.--Eisai Dekisugi (talk) 16:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

You keep mentioning notability. Notability is a criterion for article inclusion, not for the content covered in an article. So far you are standing alone on those two points, so I will ask that you respect WP:BRD and revert that section of the article while we discuss. Pagrashtak 20:56, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

A comparison to a previous (and in this case, probably one of the best games of all time that's part of the series) is completely valid when it is made by our secondary sources. Given that OoT is usually the measuring stick other Zelda games are placed against, this is not surprising to find. As to the initial reception (pre-release), I know that if there aren't already, one can document the fan's reactions through secondary sources to the cel-shading - and their turnaround on its release. That, again, is appropriate for this article as long as secondary sources are used. (Can't read Japanese yet, so can't comment on the famitsu issue). --MASEM 14:43, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

What is important is who made a bold change. You reverted that section many days after the change was made. It seems you made a bold change. For example, a man reverted an article, which has not been edited for many days, to old poor version. In this case, who made a bold change? I think it is the man who made a bold change. Notability is related to contents.Wikipedia:Notability#Notability of article content--Eisai Dekisugi (talk) 23:10, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't "many days". You made the change on 17:29, 24 Nov. I reverted on 19:25, 24 Nov. It was a little under two hours. You then reinstated your changes on 19:32, 24 Nov. I fail to see how you think that works within the BRD cycle. Pagrashtak 14:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Eisai, you're just flat-out wrong. Pagra has pointed out specific examples to support the previous version of the article; you have not been able to supply concrete rebuttals. It's not our job to leave out information because we don't agree with it. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 14:39, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

No, at least I showed the ign mistranslataion. You're just flat-out wrong.--Eisai Dekisugi (talk) 15:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

You should also read the guideline you are sourcing; once you've shown a topic (in this case, Windwaker) to be notable, the information in it does not have to be notable, just verifiable and meeting all other policies. Yes, we avoid trivial aspects of coverage (we aren't a gameguide, we don't have pop-culture sections with trivial mentions, etc.) but none of what is being kept falls in that, and in fact would be part of a good VG article coverage. --MASEM 14:46, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I do not know why Pagrashtak and you so insist such a minor thing should be included. I thought it was a pretty minor thing so removed it but Pagrashtak and you strongly insist it should remain, I do not care anymore. I am tired of this discussion so let's draw a conclusion.

• The famitsu-related sentences remain what they are because ign mistranslated.
• game informer and EGM-related sentences remain and the following sentences are added."that had initially met a mixed reception.""favorably noted the gameplay similarities to Ocarina of Time" "IGN advised gamers to "forget that Wind Waker looks totally different from Ocarina of Time" since "these two games are very much alike"."

OK?--Eisai Dekisugi (talk) 15:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

The problem with your Famitsu sentence is that you present an English phrase as a direct quotation from a Japanese source. It includes "miraclely", which isn't even a word. Perhaps the best option would be to note the score of 40 without mentioning the reviewer's comments. For the EGM reference, please add author and volume information. Pagrashtak 16:12, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Done--Eisai Dekisugi (talk) 16:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

For Famitsu, do you have information on the author, the volume/issue, and the pages? Also, can you confirm that the date of 13 Dec 2002 is correct? Pagrashtak 20:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Eisai Dekisugi has been banned as a sockpuppet of Dr90s (talk · contribs). Pagrashtak 21:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Archive 1

Talk Page Archived

Okay. The talk page was getting WAY too big, and it included comments from nearly 4 years ago, so I archived it. Continue old discussions below. Thanks!  Dylanlip  (talk) 15:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Screenshots

It appears that these screenshots were taken from an emulator, which is resulting in quite heavy aliasing. Can we please get some screens from actual Gamecube gameplay? Salgat (talk) 17:57, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Is that based on the fact that they were taken using a screen capture device, as stated in the rationale, or just an assumption made by you? Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 18:21, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

An assumption, as I have never encountered that level of aliasing during the several times that I have played the game. 68.40.99.176 (talk) 20:12, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure this isn't the sort of output capture devices should give, though? It should be reliable enough if that is the case. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 00:11, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

There is severe aliasing in the forground objects when played on the Game Cube. Have a look at the King of Red Lions in the title screen, for example. 91.178.67.254 (talk) 14:35, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Sales figures

This game sold 3,07 million copies worlwide according to http://www.rpgamer.com/news/japan/rp033104.html, it is a reliable ref, used in many Zelda articles. Please add. OboeCrack (talk) 00:46, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

But....... is RPGamer identified as notable according to Wikipedia's criteria? (I personally hope so, since there was a sales figure somewhere in the article but someone mercilessly deleted it).--190.198.84.133 (talk) 22:05, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Urm...

Just curious, I was scanning through the article and noticed something - Aonuma is mentioned only once in the entire article as having developed it, and twice period. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:40, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

It says in the infobox that he was the game director. If you're looking for the specifics of what he did, it's possible that no one could find anything about that. I can't even tell you what responsibilities a video game director has. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:58, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

The infobox is lead information, and should be mentioned somewhere in the article's body. And plus, Aonuma certainly had a lot to say about it; through my years of watching the game develop, Aonuma conducted interviews and was a regular fixture for TWW. Also, he said it affected him personally how few copies TWW sold (as mentioned in PH's article). - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:06, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

You followed it through the development cycle? Do you still have access to those sources? Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 04:19, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Nah, that's too far back, before I really concerned myself with keeping sources. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 10:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I wonder if anyone else has access to them. How effective would it be to ask at the project page? Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 07:49, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, couldn't hurt to ask. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:28, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

100 years vs hundreds of years

Seriously, the 100 years is a mistake in the interview. I understand that Wikipedia usually has to follow sources, but in this case it is obvious that the only available source is flawed with a translation eror. Is it really good to spread a false fact (that Wind Waker is set 100 years instead of hundreds of years afer OoT)? I mean, think about how many people are lazy and just look up a fact on Wikipedia instead of using multiple sources. They will all take the wrong 100 years as a fact. 91.17.63.113 (talk) 14:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Can you provide an equally credible source that does not contain such an error? As soon as you do, we can ethically change it to the correct data. Until then, the content of the article must not contradict the source, which has been considered reliable up until now. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 04:52, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Just look at the wiki page for Twilight Princess. It takes place hundreds of years in the future but that can't be correct if Wind Waker is set before it because of the world turning into a "Water World". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.64.201.181 (talk) 03:30, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

That really would require a source, or it would be considered original research. Besides, my understanding is that TP and WW take place on different sides of the split timeline; this statement, however, would also require a source. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 06:10, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Greatest Zelda Ever

I know this is not the place for this comment but I have to write this. This one is the best of the series, I really hope they make another Zelda where you have to travel the seas. It gets boring running around the forest and desert in every other Zelda game. The sea, gives it a whole new sense of adventure.--Az81964444 (talk) 04:29, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Please don't post your personal opinions. This page is for discussion about the article only. 72.241.19.67 (talk) 02:56, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Development History Correction

I am challenging this statement in the current version of the article, "Nintendo said nothing more about the possibility of a GameCube Zelda game until one year later at Space World 2001, where a completely new Zelda was shown." I counter this statement with evidence from the 2001 Space World roundtable, where Shigeru Miyamoto stated they showed off the Space World 2000 "tech demo" at E3 2001, leading people to believe it was a game in development [3]. This means that Nintendo showed off publicly the same video from 2000 again at E3 2001, before Space World 2001. Also, I would like to propose the following information be included into the history as well. At Space World, Miyamoto stated that the cosmetic changes to the cel-shaded look were already under way before E3 2001 [4]. --TSA (talk) 00:03, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Character page missing?

pressing the character link takes you back to the article.. where did the character page go? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.71.105.183 (talk) 03:42, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

From the article history - 17:34, 18 September 2009 New Age Retro Hippie (talk | contribs) (49 bytes) (No references or notability, so as it stands it's just an excessive plot summary.) Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Outset Island

Outset Island is the island you start at in The Wind Waker. When you start, 11 people will live on this island. You begin on Aryll's Lookout, sleeping. When you wake up, you'll have to go down the ladder.

Give Rose a pig and she'll give you 20 rupees. She'll give you 20 rupees for each pig you give her.

Heal Gramma. She will give you Elixir Soup. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.150.255.7 (talk) 01:17, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

GameWinners or CheatCodeCentral might be a better place to inform people of such things. Tezero (talk) 22:26, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Sailing image?

You know, for such an important aspect of the game, we never really see it in the article. The water effects were also highly praised, so it's fairly necessary. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Reception

In comparison with more recent articles, the reception seems lacking. It really doesn't mention its game of the year awards, or E3 awards, and I'm sure reception could be expanded. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:40, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Image of Windwaker

The title of this game is The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. Could we keep the only image of the Wind Waker in the article? Also why are we depicting Link flying on a deku leaf which is a relatively minor part of the game, and not him sailing which is a very big part of the game.

I would be for adding a zoom box on the Wind Waker, as well as combining the two images of style into one side-by-side image for better contrast, but there is no reason to remove a fair use image because there are four others on the same page that don't illustrate the same thing. --AerobicFox (talk) 02:14, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

It's a wand. That's described sufficiently. It's certainly far less impressive than Toon Link, the Dragon Boat, etc. --MASEM (t) 02:21, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

*edit conflict*

A an ordinary rock may be unimpressive, but sure fits in the Rock article. Playing music is also a huge part of Zelda games, and showing how it is played is also a significant reason to include the image. --AerobicFox (talk) 02:31, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

I do agree that the Deku Leaf image should be replaced with something showing Link acting in more traditional gameplay. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:28, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

I'll just say this; if we ditch one, I'd ditch either the Deku Leaf or Link blowing up. Either one can be used to demonstrate the HUD or demonstrate the graphical differences from the tech demo to the final game. The Wind Waker shot, though, demonstrates a prominent game mechanic. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 02:34, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

A game mechanic that can be very easily explained in the text. The explosion demonstrates visuals, and the Gameplay image demonstrates the main gameplay. Ideally, anyway - both Deku Leaf image and Wind Waker image need removing, but the former only because there are better alternatives. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:42, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Lol, why does something "need" to be deleted. Clearly the FA reviewers did not think so, and also the readers will likely prefer the added image. What does removing an image add to the article? I hope you are not thinking that Nintendo will take baseless legal action against their free publicity. --AerobicFox (talk) 02:48, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

WP's goal is a free content encyclopedia. The Foundation recognizes that for some topics, non-free content is necessary and allows for exceptional uses in those cases. It is our job to minimize the amount of non-free images, not because WP could be sued, but because it does conflict with the free content mission. We have to balance that verses the need to demonstrate elements to the reader, and what can be said easily in text. --MASEM (t) 02:53, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

We only minimize fair use when there are free images available. Using a fair use image where no other free image is available does not interfere with our goal at free content as there would be no free content to replace it with, but it does help the reader visualize our free written content. AerobicFox (talk) 03:30, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

No, that's wrong. Our approach is not use non-free media when a free equivalent is available. This can be text descriptions in lieu of visuals. In the case of describing the Windwaker, it's rather straighforward "To use magic from the Windwaker, the play must match directional symbols in time with a beat while Link directs with the wand.". There, no need for a non-free image. --MASEM (t) 03:33, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

"No, that's wrong. Our approach is not use non-free media when a free equivalent is available."
I just said this, the only difference is that you are interpreting text as an equivalent to an image, which it is not. A free equivalent to an non-free image would be a free image, not free text. The inclusion of a non-free image does not replace the text anyways, but adds to it. In your response you cite both a lack of need for 1. an image, and for 2. a non-free image.

1. Since the image illustrates a relevant aspect of game play it adds to the article.
2. Since there is no free image that can replace the image, we are not stopping any free content from being added to Wikipedia.--AerobicFox (talk) 05:33, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

No, WP assumes text can substitute for a non-free image; this is standard practice. If the goal of the image is to show the gameplay element (which is all that image is doing, since we've shown the art elsewhere), and it can be easily described in a few lines of text, the image is not necessary. On the other hand, if the image is showing an art style, that's likely difficult to put concisely into words, and thus we allow non-free since there is no free image replacement. --MASEM (t) 06:02, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

On this matter, I honestly think that we should fix all of the images, save for the lead image. Deku Leaf isn't representative of how the game operates; what if we could get an image of Link in action with the explosion in the background? In one image, we could depict the art style, battle, and the use of 2D to produce cartoonish effects. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:11, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

@Masem
"WP assumes text can substitute for a non-free image"
They are not equivalents though, and inserting a non-free image to illustrate free text when no free images are available has no downsides.
Being necessary is irrelevant. Whether or not it adds to the article is what is being discussed, and it illustrates an important game point, and does so non conspicuously within the article. Also, whether or not you dislike images in articles I can guarantee that the reader will, so I see no reason to unnecessarily remove useful images just because the article doesn't need them which by definition most images on Wikipedia are not needed, but are still desired. --AerobicFox (talk) 18:02, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

inserting a non-free image to illustrate free text when no free images are available has no downsides. Wrong - it ruins the free content mission. Non-free images are supposed to be used exceptionally, and we have determined that generally on video games, two uses are justified: the cover image, and one gameplay image. More may be added, but you have to show that they are absolutely needed, that the visual elements are critical for the reader's understanding and that there is no free replacement. A concept shown in a non-free that can be described in words is a free replacement. It's not an image, but that's not required, see WP:NFCC#1 which doesn't talk about an equivalent necessarily being within the same medium. This is a requirement from the Foundation, so while yes, it woudl be great if we could include a lot of screenshots to illustrate various aspects of a game, that just is not allowable. --MASEM (t) 18:33, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

"and we have determined that generally on video games, two uses are justified: the cover image, and one gameplay image."

I have not seen anything to support this, nor would I agree with it. Most video games will require more than one image to show gameplay and the game. Game reviewers typically use multiple images to showcase such things as in this review of Wind Waker that uses four images, or the various video reviews which feature several minutes worth of gameplay footage. There is simply no way to cover in depth many video games with only one image from the game.

"it woudl be great if we could include a lot of screenshots to illustrate various aspects of a game, that just is not allowable."

It is clearly allowable under the law, and I see no statements by the foundation or within policy to state that multiple images can't be used in a Wikipedia article to illustrate a game. If I have missed something please inform me and I will go look it up, but for now I am not understanding the criteria as not allowing for this many images. --AerobicFox (talk) 21:32, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

You are arguing from a "fair use" standpoint, which is correct, one can likely use multiple screenshots in conjunction with a review without violating copyright. But Wikipedia uses a higher standard, that we aim to be free content and only allow exceptional uses of non-free images. This means minimal use of these images.

We generally don't balk with one cover image (to identify the game) and one screenshot (to define a specific aspect of the game and to show the graphic style); that's minimal use but necessary to talk about the work. This doesn't mean we can't use more screenshots but there needs to be a very justifiable reason, as most gameplay can be broken down into various tropes describable by text. --MASEM (t) 21:57, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Meh this isn't worth arguing about. There is no legal need, or foreseeable reason that I can see that Fair use images would be so conservatively used when nothing could take their place, and when they add to the article, but I don't feel like getting involved with Fair use rationale. Go ahead and delete the image; this isn't going anywhere. --AerobicFox (talk) 22:16, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Image discussion

I feel that all images in use right now, at least with the Deku Leaf and the Spaceworld demo, could be replaced. For example, I was thinking for the first image, we could replace it with an image of sailing, an image of Link on the overworld, or of Link fighting the boss. As for the SW demo, I think it would better be replaced by the image of cel-shaded Link winking, and using it in association with the "needs-to-be-added" pre-release reception of the demo. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:46, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

I went through the game to make screenshots some years ago, maybe there's a good one in there that's actually representative of the most important gameplay aspects and the art style. [5] [6] [7] Prime Blue (talk) 14:12, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Review

Would anyone be opposed if I took this to WP:FAR? There are major sourcing issues (+tags) and it doesn't seem to be as comprehensive as it can be. Basically it's not an article that can be easily fixed and as it is it is not FA quality. Яehevkor ✉ 16:02, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree. The Gameplay and Graphics sections are completely unsourced, and it also hasn't been reviewed in 6 years. Cutecutecuteface2000 (Cutecuteface needs attention) 16:49, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

So, back when I was more active, the general sentiment was that Gameplay segments of VG articles largely don't require citations, as a description of the mechanics of a game can be sourced directly to the game itself, and that this should be so obvious of a source that the citation is unnecessary. In fact, it would be visually cumbersome to see the same citation at the end of every sentence. Has this changed since I've been gone, or are there statements that need sourcing beyond the primary source? Pagrashtak 04:22, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Possible Original Research Verification

The Graphics section may contain original research that might be of note, due to the game's uniqueness among cel-shaded games. Would an image of an example of bump-mapping be enough, or are there other sources needed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snesiscool (talk • contribs) 06:35, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, some additional sources are needed. Try to find a news article or something that discusses the graphics of Windwaker in-depth. A slight rewrite for POV issues may be in order as well. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 02:57, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I think I will need to delete the Graphics section because so far, I'm the only one to notice the bump-mapping (because everybody only thinks of cel-shading when they see The Wind Waker). Snesiscool (talk) 03:04, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Cover art

What's with the bright yellow cover art? I've never seen a North American copy with the bright yellow cover, nor can I find any photographic evidence of it (an eBay search, for instance, turns up nothing but results with a more sepia-toned cover like so). Some other sites like Zelda Wiki list it as a "2003" cover (as opposed to the one I just linked, a "2004" cover) - but there's no source given for the change. They do cite the bright yellow one as coming from Nintendo's press site, but the possibility exists that it was just a promo image posted to Nintendo's press site that was changed prior to release. Can anyone provide any evidence of the bright yellow cover actually being released, or should it be changed to the more golden/sepia-toned version? --Guess Who (talk) 17:24, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

If it helps any, the cover of my copy of Windwaker matches the image currently up there, or at least is close enough for me. Is there anything else wrong with it, like legal issues or something?Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 03:56, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Plot

Removed a line that stated "There will be an HD remake in autumn 2013" (may not be an exact quote) at the end of the first paragraph that was redundant (this is already mentioned elsewhere in the article) and has no bearing on the plot whatsoever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.9.50.200 (talk) 03:30, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

2 Wii U version sections?

Currently there are actually two sections titled 'Wii U version,' one at the end of 'Gameplay' and the other at the end of 'Development.' I understand that this may be to provide a gameplay and plot perspective to the remake, however the two sections cover much of the same content and I fell it would be of much benefit to the reader if all the information was compiled into one place. Thoughts? DarkToonLink^Heyaah! 23:14, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

My first thought is to rewrite the two subsections to only include the information relevant to the main section (the subsection in "Gameplay" should only have gameplay differences while the subsection in "Development" should only have development differences). In time, it may warrant its own article like Ocarina of Time 3DS did. Counterthoughts? Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 02:57, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Everything should stay in the development Wii U section. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 05:22, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

What about a part about content

May i suggest a new part called content? We can talk about what the game contain like dungeons, bosses etc? Is it a good idea or not? MicroMacroMania (talk) 14:26, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

That might be difficult. Official Wikipedia and project policy is that "fancruft", information that only a hardcore fan would care about, is not acceptable in a Wikipedia article. Unless you can find a way to make such seemingly walkthrough-worthy information encyclopedic, I would expect the Wise Ones to see it as fancruft and disapprove. That being said, there's no harm in trying to make it encyclopedic. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:08, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

@MicroMacroMania:Larry was super right about the first part. It's basic Wikipedian ethos (fandom, lore, etc), to believe that everyone's time and energy are totally and equally worthless, that all people are equally totally self-interested, and that people have nothing better to do than read, revert, delete, or edit everyone else's text daily. To throw stuff boldly against a wall and see what sticks or isn't scrubbed off by someone else. But it's not actually true. We can actually mostly know what's right and wrong before acting. Here are the links to the aforementioned policies, containing the aforementioned explicit bans on this particular material. WP:GAMEGUIDE WP:GAMECRUFT WP:FANCRUFT WP:NOT. MicroMacroMania, please read those and realize that the article already contains a description of the nature of the game's dungeons and bosses. I really hope that those guidelines and policies (and the stuff that's already in decent articles such as this one) will shape your desire to figure out what content is actually necessary, because that's how many good editors start out! You did the right thing in asking, and please do keep asking guiding questions. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 05:25, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Haha.. Dude I am already a frequent writer on Wikipedia.. I wrote most articles about tax systems, "taxation in Hungary", "taxation in Croatia", "taxation in Slovakia"... I made those pages.. I just havent edited game pages before.. But ok... Thx dude :) MicroMacroMania (talk) 08:13, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Right on. After my comment, I checked you out and expanded your super excellent articles. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 08:16, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Lol yeah I noticed it know.. Anyway sad we cant have pages about all content in the games for us mega fans :DMicroMacroMania (talk) 08:28, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I was gonna say that yes we can, as long as it's over at Wikipedia's sister site, wikia.com. Fandom and whatnot, is exactly what it's for. <3 — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 09:23, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

I am a HUGE Legend of Zelda fan, so I have Zeldawiki.org and Zelda.Wikia.com bookmarked! The wikias are where you go for pretty much anything there is to know about a game or franchise. There are a lot of wikia sites out there, so you should be able to find one that suits your interests. And don't feel bad about being called out by Smuckola. When I was new here, which was only a few weeks ago, Smuckola kept correcting me, but now I know what to do and what not to do! Gameditor^Talk 16:45, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Dude I am NOT A NEWCOMER!!11!!1 I just asked a question lol... I have been here for months...MicroMacroMania (talk) 06:21, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Link's Age

I just noticed that Link's age in the plot summary is the subject of a minor dispute. I'd like to see it resolved here before it becomes an edit war. I don't believe his age was ever mentioned either in the game or the Hyrule Historia, so where are the numbers 9 and 12 coming from? Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:39, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

I do not know either. I am inclined myself to delete the age. I think the age of 12 comes from SS:BRAWL on his trophy it states the following: "Link as he appeared in The Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass, with big eyes and an expressive face. He lived peacefully on Outset Island until a bird captured his little sister, and he came to her rescue. In The Wind Waker, he had to crawl, press up to walls, and the like. His green clothes were worn on his 12th birthday and are the lucky outfit of the hero of legend."NathanWubs (talk) 07:53, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't be opposed to deleting the age either, but you know that someone's gonna put it back and that will just end in some level of page protection. I'm gonna split the difference and put a citation needed tag on it; maybe Super Smash Bros counts as a reliable source, but I'm gonna leave that call to someone wiser than me. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 06:14, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Well sometimes protection is unavoidable especially if ip are the one doing it. But we can see what people can come up with. After all it does not have any rush. And if they come up with nothing we can just delete it later. NathanWubs (talk) 06:47, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Merge Request

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Moved from Talk:The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD § Merge Request

 – This discussion was happening on 2 different talk pages at once, I have copied the comments from the other talk page to this. Any further discussion should be continued here. The1337gamer (talk) 22:05, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

In my opinion there's very little new content in the Wii U re-release to warrant a separate article. The plot section is just a copy and paste, and even the minor gameplay differences are described in greater detail than needed for a general-use encyclopedia (as opposed to a Wikia or GameFAQ). I think we can expand the sub-section in this article rather than create a new one. For Chrono Trigger, Chrono Trigger DS didn't get its standalone article even though it has new boss fights and maps. Even Ocarina: Master Quest (which does have completely redesigned dungeons) is only a subsection of the main Ocarina of Time article. 01:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.248.181.22 (talk)

• Support: There is definitely not enough information to warrant a separate article. There are multiple articles that include sections in development, gameplay and reception that cover more than one version of the game. --ProtoDrake (talk) 18:46, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
• Support: I lend my support to this as well. I do not understand even how such an article could have been greenlit, considering how similar it is to this article. One of the unique parts of the other article is the development section and release section. But those are quite small so they should be able to be integrated to this article. Same with the reception section as well. That section also feels bloated because of the pre-release babble that is included. NathanWubs (talk) 12:09, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
• Support. I think it would serve readers better to cover the new version in a section here rather than sending them to a separate article with a ton of duplicate material.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:12, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
• Support: per nom. Game is essentially the same, with an HD facelift. The development and reception sections of the Wii U version can easily be put here too. --Soetermans. T / C 16:51, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Other talk page comments

• Oppose - Plot and gameplay are of very low importance in a video game article anyway. I would support getting rid of 90% of the content of these two sections, and only summarize them concisely. Then, looking at the actual unique content, which are the important development, release and reception sections, I think there's plenty of content to warrant a unique article. I've never really been a fan of combining different games (such as done with Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U), so I would oppose to this merge. Merging the development, release and reception sections of this article into the Windwaker article might get that article out of balance. ~Mable (chat) 19:09, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

I could go either way too. On one hand, the game's are largely identical. On the other hand, I do believe the HD version did receive a lot of exclusive coverage, and elicited commentary for a few things the original did not. (One of the first Nintendo HD remasters, releasing the game a month earlier digitally, etc.) Sergecross73 msg me 13:57, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

If the issue is that it includes a lot of duplicate content from another article, then simply remove most of that content and see if the article holds up. I think there is plenty of original coverage here to keep it separate from the original game. ~Mable (chat) 14:56, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

When it's an issue of overlap, I tend to prefer merging. The content here really doesn't look too substantial to me - the Development section I threw together for Digimon Racing a few years ago is about the same size, and that was just cobbled together from some tangential E3 articles and stuff. It might have the potential for some expansion, and likewise so does Reception, but... I mean, I hate to ask, but would users really care enough for us to host a separate page just for that? We don't even differentiate console and handheld versions of games >99% of the time (the only exception that jumps to mind is Over the Hedge for the DS), let alone upgraded ports (e.g. Sonic Mega Collection Plus, Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, Resident Evil 4 for Wii, Super Mario Deluxe, Super Mario Bros. 3 for GBA [God, I miss that]). Why are remasters treated differently? Tezero (talk) 23:20, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

• Keep separate. I created the article for TWW HD because of the large amount of content unique to the topic. The two games have unique histories, and the gameplay differences are sizable. People often call games like TWW HD "remasters," but this one especially is a remake. It's a new game of its own right, with plenty of unique information about it. Reliable sources treat it as a separate game and indeed many readers will want information that applies uniquely to this remake. Resoru (talk) 07:39, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

• As I said above, I'm not especially a proponent of merging, but if there is a "large amount of content unique" to the HD version, you you sure didn't document much of it by the looks of the HD article. Sergecross73 msg me 14:49, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose Enough unique content to fill an article. Dream Focus 13:49, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. There is enough to be said about WWHD's development, reception, design, etc. that it would make this already large article be unwieldy if merged. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 14:09, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. TheTMOBGaming2 (talk) 05:01, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Widescreen image

The image https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wind_waker_1080p.jpg should be replaced, because it's widescreen. It was apparently taken using a widescreen hack in the Dolphin emulator. It's not possible to scale this image to 4:3 without messing up the graphics.

To properly represent the actual original game, the article needs an image that is 4:3, not 16:9. Uncle Alf (talk) 14:03, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Too much negative

All of a sudden, an user who hates The Wind Waker has overemphasized the negative fan reaction the game got during its reveal and the first few years since its release. The use of superfluous expressions like "deeply mixed" is evidence of this. It's not taking into consideration the subsequent years' retroactive reception (for example, in an official IGN voting tournament, the game made it to semifinals where it lost to Ocarina of Time). --75.105.83.113 (talk) 14:25, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

I added the material, and I certainly don't "hate" Wind Waker. The deeply mixed early reception over the graphics is one of the most noteworthy thugs about the game, and it's well sourced here. It's my intention to add additional material on how the game's reputation has improved over time once I'm done compiling the sources. Hopefully, it'll be ready for a WP:GA push before too long.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:57, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Notes for GA review

I've nominated this article for GA review as I think it's finally ready. I modeled the article after the other Zelda game articles of high quality, in particular the FAs Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. I made a few slight changes to their layout. In particular, there are sections for its initial reception by fans, and the fact that it improved over the years. I did this because this is treated as a major feature of the game's history in the sources, much more so than for most other Zelda games. On a related note, I didn't include info on The Wind Waker HD in the "Development" section, first because it has its own article, and second, because I felt it was a better fit for the "Legacy" section, since the remake was only done after it was felt the game's reputation had improved. Otherwise, it follows what they do pretty closely.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:53, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TheSandDoctor (talk · contribs) 03:46, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I will start a review of this shortly. What I can say off the bat is that plagiarism is not a concern. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 03:46, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

My apologies Cuchullain for the confusion possibly caused by the review being restarted, however, it was brought to my attention here that the length of the reviews was a concern. Due to this, I am restarting the review.

Overall I do not see any major issues with the article, however, I noticed that the article could possibly do with some more citations?

• "Nintendo's Zelda team initiated plans for a new game early in the development of the GameCube system, before Majora's Mask was completed for the Nintendo 64 in 2000" - source?
• "... included a GameCube port of Ocarina of Time as well as its previously unreleased expansion, Ura Zelda." - source? If it is covered elsewhere in a ref, could use duplication here
• "Nintendo presented a demo clip of the new game at the 2001 Space World, August 23–26." - source?
• Although it may not be easy/possible to fix, I do notice a lot of WP:CITEKILL, sometimes 6 citations for 3 words. I would recommend either looking into WP:CITEBUNDLE or distribute the citations beside the information that they support (or prune them, although that is not the approach I would personally take).

That's it. I am placing this  On hold until these concerns are addressed and shall check back here frequently. Thanks for your time and sorry for any confusion caused. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 00:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, TheSandDoctor. I'll take care of these immediately. "Nintendo's Zelda team initiated plans for a new game early in the development of the GameCube system, before Majora's Mask was completed for the Nintendo 64 in 2000": The cites follow the next sentence, footnotes 15 & 16. They verify the info in both sentences.

"... included a GameCube port of Ocarina of Time as well as its previously unreleased expansion, Ura Zelda." That passage and the two following are sourced to footnotes 45, 46, 47, and 48. Each of the cites give only pieces of the information. 45 is the one that includes the bulk of the info for the entire passage. 46 is about the Japan release with the bonus game called Ura Zelda, 47 is about the North American release with Ura Zelda named Master Quest, and 48 confirms that it was released as Master Quest in Europe. I'll add 45 behind the passage in question as well, as it covers that whole passage.

"Nintendo presented a demo clip of the new game at the 2001 Space World, August 23–26." This and the following 2 passages are cited to 17, 18, and 24; 17 and 18 cover the Space World demo passage. I could move them up to the end of that sentence as well if you think it would be better.

The WP:CITEKILL issue is going to be tricky to fix. In writing up those passages, I looked at all the reviews available to me (all the sources listed at Template:Video game reviews and a few others noted as reliable at WP:VG/RS) to find what was common between them. I preferred this to the way other video game articles sometimes handle things, where there's a quote at a time with no true indication that it's representative. As such it won't be possible to move citations to a more direct place with something like "[level design was praised] especially in the dungeons", as all five of those reviews praise the dungeons. At one point another editor went through and removed some of the citations, but it seemed pretty haphazard so I reverted it. We could do some citation bundles, but in my opinion that usually results in even more overkill - you have to copy the full citation in every footnote where it's used, which adds even more bulk to the ref list. But I'm happy to do it if others prefer.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:03, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

@Cuchullain: Thanks for your response and understanding as I attempt to resolve concerns raised. Your explanations seem quite fair - I would just like to see citations closer to what they support, then again, I think that that could just be personal preference and I do see what you mean. As for the CITEBUNDLING, it was just a suggestion and I am happy to leave it as is. If you do not want to copy the citations closer, I do not see an issue with that, just let me know. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 19:21, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

I've rearranged the cites for your second and third comments, so see if that looks any better. Probably tomorrow, I'll take a stab at bundling at least the cites with 5 or more and see how that works. I'm down for either bundling the cites, or keeping them as separate sites, so long as all of them are kept for the passages they support.--Cúchullain ^t/c 19:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

@Cuchullain: I am satisfied with what you have and are planning to do. If you want, I can pass this review right now, or do you want to wait? --TheSandDoctor (talk) 20:17, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

TheSandDoctor: By all means, pass it if it's ready. The cite bundling won't change anything besides how some of the cites are presented; changes to the actual article presentation will be small. Thanks for your guidance!--Cúchullain ^t/c 20:22, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

@Cuchullain: You are very welcome! I have gone ahead and promoted the article again, thank you once again for your understanding and I apologize for any confusion this has caused. Now that I know a lot more about the reviewing process and have more experience, if you have any other articles you would like to have reviewed, I would more than happily do it - I only have one more re-review to do but I am waiting for the nominator to get back online from vacation. Any experience I can get I am happy for as I want to improve as a reviewer. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 20:26, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Have you considered DYK or attempting to get this article back to featured article status? While I do not have any experience with FA, I think you are well on the road to that. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 20:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

TheSandDoctor: Thanks! I thought this review went well. I hadn't thought about DYK, but I have thought about FA status. I'll have to check with someone experienced with video game FAs.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:28, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Sales

User:JimmyBlackwing, you might want to go back over your edits to see what can be retained here.[8] 65.126.152.254 (talk) 20:43, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that. I'll see what I can do. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 01:58, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Cover art

Was that yellow cover art actually used or is it some not final pre-release art since all I'm able find is the gold cover. --Mika1h (talk) 19:05, 4 October 2018 (UTC)