Talk:South by South Lawn

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 talk 23:36, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

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• ... that the South by South Lawn festival, which took place October 3, 2016, was modelled after and "organized together with" the South by Southwest festival?

• Source: "It was the first – and you have to presume the last – South By South Lawn. Modeled upon and organized together with the original Austin, Texas, interactive festival South By Southwest, it brought a riot of color to the usually sedate seat of the US presidency." The Guardian

• ALT0a: ... that the South by South Lawn festival was modelled after and "organized together with" the South by Southwest festival?
• ALT1: ... that the South by South Lawn festival sign was programmed by Adam Savage and a team from Baltimore to illuminate every time someone made a social media post with the hashtag #sxsl? Source: "MythBusters’ Adam Savage and a team of makers from Baltimore made the giant letters “SXSL” that lit up every time someone posted to social media using the hasthag #sxsl. Artist Nathan Sawaya brought his Park People, sculptures of people made entirely of Legos." Smithsonian Magazine
• ALT2: ... that the 2016 festival South by South Lawn was literally one of a kind? Source: One-off event. The Guardian
• ALT3: ... that the 2016 festival South by South Lawn included a panel discussion on climate change led by President Obama and featuring actor Leonardo DiCaprio and Canadian climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe? Source: "The main event was a conversation, led by President Obama, on climate change with Leonardo DiCaprio and climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe. When talking about leaders taking on climate change, DiCaprio said, “I'm so very honored and pleased to be joined onstage with one of those leaders—a President who has done more to create solutions for the climate change crisis than any other in history—President Barack Obama.” Immediately following the discussion was the domestic premiere of DiCaprio’s new climate documentary, Before the Flood." Smithsonian Magazine
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Wan Abubakar

Created by TheSandDoctor (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 17 past nominations.

TheSandDoctor ^Talk 00:46, 24 May 2024 (UTC).

• Hiya. The article was new enough at time of nomination (DYK nomination on 24 May, having been moved to the mainspace on the same day, and has not appeared on the Main Page) and is long enough (1737 characters of readable prose and is not a stub). ALTs 0, 1, and 3 are interesting, sourced, and formatted properly, though I would have reduced some of the detail (such as the dates) to increase intrigue. It is up to you if you want to retain the current level of detail (the character lengths are currently 154, 180, and 198 respectively, which are within policy but are pushing its boundaries). I am not approving ALT2: "one of a kind" is too broad and implies that there is something unique about the event, not that it occurred as a one-off.
  As the listed quid pro quo was used in a previous nomination, I believe that a new one is needed – my interpretation of you must complete a full review of one other nomination (unrelated to you) for every subsequent article you nominate‍ ... A review does not need to be successful to count as a QPQ is that they cannot be reused even if the nomination is unsuccessful (maybe seek clarification at WT:DYK). Please also note that full reviews are needed to count as QPQs.
  With regards to core content policies such as copyright, neutrality, and BLP, I did not detect any violations (there is some close paraphrasing, such as the first sentence of the second paragraph of "Background", but there is a limited number of ways to say the same thing). However, there are some verifiability issues with the article:
  • I think that the basis for initiated by the Obama administration in that White House source is a little shaky; while it is probably true, it doesn't seem to be explicitly supported.
  • Is there a better source than that Forbes profile for Futurism helping to organise?
  • More than 20,000 attendees were invited in the article ≠ More than 20,000 were nominated in the source.
  • General comment about the article (expressly not a DYK issue, more a bugbear): I don't really understand the citation structure – the frequency is very dense when it doesn't need to be (eg technology and music[1] festival[2], one-day event[7] hosted on the White House South Lawn[8], and climate[12] documentary Before the Flood.[13]). You're free to ignore this comment if you wish.
  • Another general comment: if you want, there are some nice public-domain photos here that you can add.
• As DYK eligibility requires additional work, I am marking the nomination with . Please address these issues before I can approve this nomination. Sdrqaz (talk) 04:04, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@Sdrqaz: I never got a notification on my talk page from the usual bot about there being a problem here. Weird. The sub-heading of this White House page says that it is "A White House Festival of Ideas, Art, and Action". Does that help any? The Forbes entry is staff written, as are the Forbes 30 Under 30 picks, therefore falling under WP:FORBES rather than WP:FORBESCON. They're not explicitly mentioned in this staff article but if you follow the "media" link for that category of the 2017 30U30 present in the article, the profile is half way down the linked page. I don't think that that source should be a problem there. I have adjusted the 20,000 attendees line. Thanks for the link on public domain pics! I will go through those when I have some more time and add a few. --TheSandDoctor ^Talk 15:55, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@TheSandDoctor: I don't think that there is a bot that notifies you if there are issues – it is up to the reviewer to leave such notices if they wish. I'll ping you to comments I make here instead, if that's okay. I did see that for the Obama administration issue; maybe I'm being too picky, so I'll leave it. I'll give you some time to find a full QPQ (see my comments at the start) or find clarification at WT:QPQ WT:DYK if you disagree. Would also like to hear your thoughts on the hooks. Sdrqaz (talk) 22:38, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@Sdrqaz: Swapped out to Template:Did you know nominations/Wan Abubakar. My mistake re the bot -- I thought that there was one but clearly I'm mistaken. Pings are just fine! For ALT0 would that the South by South Lawn festival was modelled after and "organized together with" the South by Southwest festival? work? Would you suggest any detail reduction for ALT1? Curious what you had in mind for shortening ALT3; I think it is interesting enough as is but I feel creating a sense of intrigue could be improved, just not sure how. (Silly me thought I'd saved this comment last night but apparently not...) --TheSandDoctor ^Talk 14:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

@TheSandDoctor: That is an improved ALT0, in my opinion . Take what I say with a grain of salt as hook-writing is not a precise science, but I would advise thinking about the purpose behind every included detail. As the author, it depends on what you want to highlight about the article. I would caution against writing hooks like sentences in normal articles: too much detail may not leave the reader wanting to know more.

Part of the appeal for ALT1 as written is to attract readers who have heard of Adam Savage or MythBusters. However, there's also the risk that people get distracted by the link and click on him instead to find out more. The team from Baltimore may be extraneous detail if you take a more ruthless approach. For ALT3, the same consideration applies: if you wish to highlight the climate change element of it or Katherine Hayhoe's work, then inclusion of her article is a respectable decision. However, as above, it may lead to distraction: as DiCaprio and Obama are much more well-known, then it may not be necessary to have detail about her. Other ways to make it shorter could simply be just removing "actor" or "Canadian" etc.

I will emphasise that these are just things to think about and you are absolutely free to disregard them as I will be approving the nomination either way. Sdrqaz (talk) 03:55, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@TheSandDoctor and Sdrqaz: What is the status of this nomination? (For my money, ALT0 does not meet WP:DYKINT, ALT1 could drop 'was programmed by Adam Savage and a team from Baltimore' per WP:DYKTRIM, and ALT3's also cruising for a pruning, probably at 'Obama'.)--Launchballer 09:31, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Mainly waiting for TheSandDoctor's thoughts on the hooks. I don't disagree with you regarding ALT1 and ALT3, Launchballer, but am willing to defer to TSD if the purpose is to bring readers in through highlighting different information (see 2nd paragraph of 23 June comment). Sdrqaz (talk) 01:40, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

@Sdrqaz and Launchballer: I will get back to this and am not intending to abandon or drop the ball here, but I have had a lot going on in the real world since then that I would rather not get into and won't be available until next week (so a few more days) most likely. Sorry. Just leaving this quick comment to make my intentions clear. I haven't forgotten, I am just at capacity in other areas right now that are eating up my time "irl"... --TheSandDoctor ^Talk 13:18, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

@Sdrqaz and Launchballer: My apologies for the delay. I cannot go into it here per se but it was unforeseeable circumstance wise. I would think that a good alt0 replacement would be "that the South by South Lawn festival was modelled after and "organized together with" the South by Southwest festival?", for alt1 I do think there is a strong appeal tying Adam Savage to it but he didn't do it alone so there is a valid point with just not including who did it at all. I concur that we can trim down to just Obama for ALT3. Thoughts? --TheSandDoctor ^Talk 04:05, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I still don't think ALT0 meets WP:DYKINT. It's not unusual for an event to be organised by multiple entities and even less unusual for it to be modelled after something. I haven't 'verified' either of the other hooks, but if you're asserting they're okay, then this can be ticked off. For pshaw, these are ALT1a: ... that the South by South Lawn festival sign was programmed to illuminate every time someone made a social media post with the hashtag #sxsl? and ALT3a: ... that the 2016 festival South by South Lawn included a panel discussion on climate change led by President Obama? (I do note that last month's most successful hook did not begin with 'that', so we could go with ALT1b: ... what the South by South Lawn festival sign did every time someone made a social media post with the hashtag #sxsl?)--Launchballer 07:32, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Please see MOS:INDENTMIX. TheSandDoctor, I hope that things get better for you in the real world . Note for promoter: my hook recommendations for TSD were optional, and apart from ALT2, they are within policy. Therefore, while I personally prefer shorter hooks, I can still see the appeal of the other unstruck ones and they are all acceptable (ALT0a, ALT1, ALT1a, ALT1b, ALT3, ALT3a). Approved, Sdrqaz (talk) 04:32, 10 July 2024 (UTC)