Talk:Red Dead Revolver

TGS 2002

I noticed there is a claim that the game wasn't at TGS 2002 with a link to IGN's list of games at Capcom's booth, as well as citations from IGN that the game wasn't in a playable state. There is recorded footage of the game, in a playable state, at TGS 2002. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZylkAhjn34 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.170.99.119 (talk) 19:01, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

I suspect that they either showed an older build or the video has an incorrect description. The IGN source reads, specifically, "The PlayStation 2 listing obviously omits two key titles: Devil May Cry 2 and Red Dead Revolver. Neither of those were playable at the recent ECTS exhibition in Europe, so their status at TGS should be a useful indicator of whether they will make their planned winter releases." and per the adjacent GameSpot source, it also missed E3 the following year, so I doubt that they had an intermediate working build shown at one game show but missed the one prior and the one after. Anyhow, as a precaution, I changed it to ECTS for now. Lordtobi (✉) 21:25, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Untitled

It says on this page that Jack Swift is killed at the end of the game. But I got an ending in which he survives. Don't tell me I'm the only one who's gotten this. Musha 01:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I got an ending where Annie and Buffalo Soldier walk out and Red asks "Were's Jack?" And Annie responds "He..." and it ends there. Maybe it's based on how well you protect him. I'll replay the game and see if I get that ending. King Toast 02:26, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I got another ending where the same thing happens. Are you sure you're not having a little wishful thinking? ;) King Toast 02:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by King Toast (talk • contribs)

Gameplay Section?

The article is mostly a game plot summary, and there's very little info about the actual gameplay - just that it's a "third-person shooter" which is an exceptionally broad category which includes everything from Grand Theft Auto to Resident Evil 4. I think many people will be interested in this game due to the success of it's sequel, and would like to know how the gameplay compares to Red Dead Redemption. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.154.77.22 (talk) 00:38, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Funny you should bring it up. It used to have a gameplay section, but it was eventually removed because no one developed it. If you can provide a gameplay section, even if it begins as a stub section, it will greatly help the article. I wouldn't compare it to Red Dead Redemption though, simply because I'm pretty sure that the current standard is to compare subsequent games to those that came first, not the other way around. A description such as that found in Red Dead Redemption would be perfect for this article. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 03:45, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Engine

"07:15, 26 June 2017‎ Lordtobi (talk | contribs)‎ . . (9,837 bytes) (+38)‎ . . (Reverted good faith edits by Rhain: You can check the credits (though it says just "Advanced Game Engine", but thats obviously an error); if necessary we can provide a {{cite video game}}. (TW))"

Nope. It's not "obviously and error". Red Dead Revolver predates even Rockstar Table Tennis. But it doesn't use renderware either. I started digging and it looks like they bought Red Dead Revolver from Capcom (http://gtaforums.com/topic/459216-new-engine-for-gta-v/) and RDRevolver was using the Advanced Game Engine. Later on, Rockstar forked it, improved it and called it ROCKSTAR Advanced Game Engine. (or RAGE) So it's not an error. This version of the engine wasn't called RAGE yet and while it looks like RAGE is based on AGE, it's not the same thing. As I have no proper sources for any of this it has no place in the article, but you can't simply assume it's an error when the engine used for this game is called AGE. RAGE is also said to be based on the Angel Game Engine from Midnight Club II and ultimately Midtown Madness. (Angel Studios is now Rockstar San Diego) It's all pretty confusing, how much code from the 1999 game Midtown Madness would you really find in GTA V? W3ird N3rd (talk) 15:57, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

AFAIK, the original engine, AGE, was an abbreviation for Angel Game Engine (by Angel Studios, obviously); I found the first credits to explicitly state the name to be from 2000's Smuggler's Run [1], and subsequently in 2 of 4 next Angel Studios games (the other two don't mention any engine name) [2]+[3], this transitioned to Midnight Club II and Spy Hunter 2 to only listing "AGE", rather than any full name: [4]+[5] After these, we arrive at Read Dead Revolver, which says "AGE (Advanced Game Engine)". So we actually do know who AGE belongs to, any given that Rockstar San Diego is still behind RAGE, it is only reasonable that it is the same engine, even if completely rewritten from time to time.

The question here is, rather, if the Advanced used in this case was simply a mistake that "leaked" the upcoming name that would be introduced two years later, or if it was simply renamed together with Angel Studios itself BEFORE eventually becomming RAGE, as you wouldn't expect a company named "Rockstar San Diego" to associated with "Angel Game Engine". Also the game inbetween this and Table Tennis, Mindight Club III, says simply "AGE (Game Engine)"[6] Note here that the two leading engine developers, David Etherton and Ted Carson, stayed in charge of the engine under both abbreviations, so a complete scrapping of a functioning engine and buidling a completely new one from scratch--with just 10 people--seems far-fetched.

It is fair to say that both of us are leaning far into the WP:original research territory, and my comment regarding it being a error was me thinking they accidentally omitted the "Rockstar", but we may never know exactly unless we find valuable information. I will, for now, stay with claim that they are the same engine, just under different names, as it is developed by the same company throughout, has a similar name, and behaves similarly. Lordtobi (✉) 21:28, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

I actually don't disagree with you. The engine is probably similar (neither of us has seen the code so we can't be sure and have no credible source for that claim), developed by the same company, it does have a similar name and there are similarities in behaviour. But as you've seen, the name AGE or Angel/Advanced Game Engine has appeared in more than one title. So clearly that's not an error. And RAGE is, afaik, more than just a rename. It's somewhat comparable to why you can't say Windows 8 is just a new version of Windows 7.

The neatest solution for this would be to first find a credible source that RAGE really did evolve from the Advanced Game Engine. This seems trivial/obvious but I can't find a credible source for this even though it would pass the duck test. Then you would add a section for the Advanced Game Engine to Rockstar Advanced Game Engine, make Advanced Game Engine a redirect to Rockstar Advanced Game Engine and make the Advanced Game Engine in this article a link. W3ird N3rd (talk) 06:36, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

As of yet, I was not able to find any sources that drew a connection to Angel Game Engine, in fact, I did not find any article even mentioning the name whatsoever. As long as we lack sufficient information, we should just leave it and not create a redirect (it also pretty amibgousm as there are many similarly titled engines). Hopefully there will at one point be an article dedicated to the engine itself. I will for now remove the claim from the infobox, as our guidelines tell us to omit articleless engines from there. Lordtobi (✉) 08:50, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I doubt there will ever be an article dedicated to this engine because I don't think there is enough verifiable information available about it to justify an article. Such an article would probably be a spinoff from the RAGE article anyway, so it's a better idea to focus on that. In this particular case, I think it's justified to have the name of the engine without a link in the infobox because it's both notable and there is a reasonable chance it can link to the RAGE article in the future. As for the redirect, it's entirely optional. Advanced Game Engine would be fine once the RAGE article speaks of the Advanced Game Engine.

You should probably contact Rockstar and ask them some questions. Make sure to contact someone from Rockstar and not Take2 because they probably won't understand these questions. Some questions could be:

• Was the Advanced Game Engine the basis for RAGE?
• Was the Angel Game Engine the basis for the Advanced Game Engine?
• Does Midtown Madness (1999) use the Angel Game Engine, and if not, which engine does it use?
• Can you provide a list of R* games and which engine they use?
• What does ERB stand for?

Don't forget to mention you are doing this research for Wikipedia and you're looking for a credible source, so you can't just google everything. I'm honestly not sufficiently knowledgeable on this subject, I think you know a bit more about it so it would probably be better if you ask them. W3ird N3rd (talk) 10:57, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Oh, pardon for the misunderstanding, with "article" I intended to talk about a news article from a credible publication (IGN and Polygon have lots of these). It'd be great if you could handle the contact, as I haven't heard from them for just about 14 months since I sent my latest email. I suspect my provider being blocked on various servers, as it is often the case with unrelated contacts. Lordtobi (✉) 11:08, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Credited writers

Despite the fact that there is a warning not to have writers listed, other wikis (such as the Finnish and the Spanish one) have 3 writers listed (Robert Bacon, Casey Fahy, and David Ferris), a list which IMDb corroborates, as does this website. I'll keep looking for corroborating evidence from more reliable sources, but it seems that there were writers on this game.

Is the policy to only include writers credited by the work itself? If so, is there a place where this policy is made clear? Thank you Packer1028 (talk) 01:31, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Packer1028, in both sources provided (though neither is reliable), all three are credited for additional writing, or as it is given in the game, "Additional Story and Text Support". This would mean that they were not the lead writers, and the actual lead writer(s) was/were forgotten or left the studio before the game was finished. Lordtobi (✉) 06:00, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Lordtobi Thanks for the clarification! Packer1028 (talk) 01:01, 26 June 2019 (UTC)