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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
QAnon is categorized as an American Fascist movement. However, there is little to indicate a following of Fascist beliefs and principles as laid out by Fascist philosophers other than Nationalism. They haven't spoken in favor of Fascist figures like Mussolini or even Hitler. They may certainly be a far-right movement but definitely not a Fascist movement. Hence, the category American Fascist movements ought to be removed. Listenhereyadonkey (talk) 22:49, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They often side with Trump, so there's that.... There are numerous RS that connect him with fascist ideas, values, and rhetoric. Here's an interesting thesis. BTW, he, of course, has no clue what fascism really is. He just uses the word to attack left-wingers, even though it's a right-wing ideology that best describes him and his most die-hard followers. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 01:01, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fascism isn't necessarily either left or right, and in regard to economics, it's actually more left wing. Trump's ideology, while there are parallels to be drawn to Fascism is not a Fascist ideology. The only two shared characteristics are Nationalism and strong man leadership, neither of which are inherently Fascist or exclusive to it and can apply to a multitude of ideologies. Trump's ideology is just Right-Wing Populist Nationalism. It isn't even remotely similar to actual Fascism as it was envisioned and practiced by Fascist philosophers like Gentile, Mussolini, and D'Annunzio, among others. Fascism emphasizes state control, national unity under a powerful government, big government, collectivism, and a Nationalist directive. There's a very distinct philosophy there centered around collective nationalist unity. It's almost a spiritual philosophy that again is very different from Trump's ideology. To be Fascist means to follow a very specific ideology and to call anyone who is a nationalist or an authoritarian or is far-right a fascist based solely on those characteristics that would be gravely inaccurate. Listenhereyadonkey (talk) 01:28, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Listenhereyadonkey You are new so it is understandable you don't understand that article talk pages are not a forum for discussion of the subject of the article. We go by sources, not our opinions. And our article Fascism makes it clear that Fascism if far right, that is not up for debate here - if you want to discuss it at Talk:Fascism by all means do so with your reliably published sources. Doug Wellertalk07:07, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Doug Weller yeah but there's more that makes someone a Fascist besides being "far-right" this isn't my opinion, if you've ever studied the philosophy of Fascism that'd be clear. I'm not here to debate what Fascism is or isn't. I'm here to say Trump is not a Fascist, and that isn't my opinion. That's an objectively true statement. Fascism is an ideology that can be objectively defined, and if Trump does not meet the definitions (which he doesn't), then he is not a Fascist, it's as simple as. If there're any reliable and unbiased sources that say he is a Fascist and can definitively prove that he is, then they should be cited. Listenhereyadonkey (talk) 19:00, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I know about the philosophy. It’s irrelevant because the meaning of words often change over time and that’s happened here. Again, you don’t understand how Wikipedia works. In particular our policies on sources and their use. If you are getting advice from another user by email it’s not good advice. Don’t bother to reply to me, this discussion needs closing as it’s not going to go anywhere. Doug Wellertalk19:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unless there are reliable sources explicitly identifying QAnon as fascist, I'd be inclined to remove the category. It is unquestionably a far right conspiracy theory. And has been so labeled by numerous sources. But I haven't run into any calling it fascist. Trump's allegedly fascist inclinations are neither here nor there. See WP:SYNTH. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:11, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Regarding the movement's developments since 2022 and Q's brief return, I'm considering whether to use this article and this one. But I'm wondering if these are acceptable sources for such a subject. The Vice.com seems ok, but I've seen so much bad content from this outlet that it has made me cautious. Pastemagazine.com is a magazine about music, as far as I know, so I also wonder.
Any thoughts ? Thanks. Psychloppos (talk) 07:29, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
It seems like poor English to refer to "QAnon" as a "conspiracy theory". QAnon is an alias for an individual (or individuals) who peddled conspiracy theories. Saying QAnon is a conspiracy theory is like saying Alex Jones is. 46.135.5.245 (talk) 19:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's a much more accurate description. "QAnon" is literally just the name of the leader - with the "anon" part being because "Q" was, like all Chan users, anonymous. The way this article differentiates between "Q" as an individual and "QAnon" is odd and misleading.
Calling it a movement makes much more sense because QAnon had followes and therefore you can refer to a "QAnon movement". But saying "QAnon is a conspiracy theory" can only parse as "no individual or entity known as QAnon ever actually existed but there's a conspiracy theory believing that they did" in English grammar, which is not true (rather, someone or some group posting as QAnon DID exist but they propagated several conspiracy theories). It should also be a goal of an English-language encyclopedia to not mislead the reader through frankly poor English. 46.135.5.245 (talk) 22:45, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Basically, you're forcing your own particular interpretation on the concept and then berating us for not conforming to your views. "QAnon" is used by reliable sources as an umbrella term for the entire movement & it's goals, which are absolutely a conspiracy theory. There is no misleading, especially since people can just read the article to get the full understanding of Q and the movement. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite11:57, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How can a conspiracy theory be a "goal"? A belief is not a goal. The problem here is one of English grammar. You're literally not producing sensible English sentences. What I'm saying here is not a violation of WP:FORUM - I'm discussing how to improve the article, which currently does not make sense because of users like you loosely and incorrectly using English-language terms they simply do not understand.
A conspiracy theory is a theory (or rather, unfounded hypothesis in this case) and therefore a belief. A belief cannot be a goal - *spreading* a belief can be, or what one does as a consequence of those beliefs, but a belief is itself not a goal. This is an important point to make because saying "QAnon's goal is a conspiracy theory" is not a parseable or meaningful English sentence, and thus defeats the whole point of an informative article. My whole point is that sloppy and inaccurate language is ruining the article.
The resulting QAnon conspiracy theory - also known as "The Storm" - is a collection of these interpretations. The "Anon" part of the name comes from the fact that 4chan posters are, by default, anonymous.
Before Q, there was a wide variety of “anon” 4chan posters all claiming to have special government access.
In 2016, there was FBIAnon, a self-described “high-level analyst and strategist” offering intel about the 2016 investigation into the Clinton Foundation. Then came HLIAnon, an acronym for High Level Insider, who posted about various dubious conspiracies in riddles, including one that claimed Princess Diana had been killed because she found out about 9/11 “beforehand” and had “tried to stop it.” Then “CIAAnon” and “CIA Intern” took to the boards in early 2017, and last August one called WH Insider Anon offered a supposed preview that something that was “going to go down” regarding the DNC and leaks.
Qanon was just another unremarkable part of the “anon” genre until November 2017
As it explains, QAnon = Q. The -Anon suffix was well-established and previously used for other anonymous individuals claiming to be leaking government info. The fact that QAnon originally referred to the individual, Q, is a relevant fact for the article - making a distinction between the two terms is misleading and factually incorrect. You mistake this for my "interpretation" because you are yourself not acquainted with the facts. 78.136.162.231 (talk) 15:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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