Talk:Paper Mario

Comments

Development

• "Intelligent Systems was founded by Toru Narihiro after he was hired by Nintendo" - you mean hired as a 3rd-party contractor? Or hired as an employee?
  •  Done.
• "After Nintendo grew fond of his programming" - editorializing
  •  Done.
• "they expanded the company to a developer group" - who expanded? What's a "developer group"? Is IS a contract company or a subsidiary of Nintendo?
  •  Done.
• "Nintendo had Square developed" - this is early days, but some copyediting needed
  •  Done.
• "The future producer of the series, Kensuke Tanabe, learned a philosophy of game development from Miyamoto; he learned to challenge himself when creating new gameplay concepts to bring more entertainment." - which series? (You just finished talking about M&L), also, this sentence gets pretty long just to say... I'm not sure exactly. "try to bring more entertainment" isn't much of a design philosophy; maybe "focus on making games as entertaining as possible"?
  • After sifting through interviews, I'm assuming he meant to do something along the lines of "restrict yourself, and the creativity comes out." This is never explicitly mentioned though; I've clarified a bit.  Done.
• Not sure what a "role-playing-like plot" is, besides maybe deeper than an action game?
  •  Done.
• "for the Gamecube, being announced through" - "being + _ed" is awkward grammar (see User:Tony1/Noun plus -ing) and should generally be avoided- try "and was announced"
  • I don't even know why something like this happened. Look away! This is the Beta!  Done.
• That "not even one-percent" pull quote is great, but the text isn't tying into it enough- is this related to the de-emphasizing of plot in Sticker Star?
  • Yes; it's in reference to one of the main reasons why it was de-emphasized, but it wasn't explained too well in prose. Fixed.  Done.
• "refreained the developers" - should be "prohibited" or "discouraged", whichever is more correct (you can't "refrain" someone else)
  • It was even spelled wrong too.  Done.
• " the developers needed to differentiate characters from the separate series" - you mean differentiate the characters from other Mario series?
  •  Done.
• "high definition power of the Wii U" - editorializing, just say it had more graphical power than prior consoles
  •  Done.
• "Tanabe mentioned that the Mario & Luigi series will take the place of Paper Mario in the sense of RPG games" - tense, "will take"? Same with the next sentence, these are describing choices made in the past about games made in the past, and shouldn't be future tense.
  •  Done.
• "Due to the Wii U being a financial failure and the Nintendo Switch recently being announced, Color Splash is the lowest selling game in the series" - while likely, it would be better as "Color Splash is the lowest-selling game in the series, possibly due to the low sales of the Wii U and the announcement of the Nintendo Switch prior to its release"
  •  Done.
• "Although the game was planned to be announced for the 35th anniversary of Super Mario Bros." - what game?
  •  Done.
• "After early leaks of in-game info and hacked PC emulation" - what is hacked PC emulation?
  •  Done.
• "the casuals players" - typo or in the source?
  • Typo.  Done.

--PresN 22:49, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 14:43, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Intelligent Systems developed the Paper Mario series only because Square wasn't there to do so? Source: 20 Years Ago, Nintendo Transformed the RPG Genre With Paper Mario
  • ALT1:... that the Paper Mario series was changed from role-playing games to action-adventure games because the developers found it to be too similar to Nintendo's other role-playing series, Mario & Luigi? Source: The Paper Mario Game Not Everyone Wants

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Chamber of Commerce Building (Manhattan)

Created by Panini! (talk). Self-nominated at 21:22, 9 February 2021 (UTC).

• Comment to be eligible for DYK the content must be original, not copied from other articles. Panini! when writing this article, did you copy any content or wording from other Wikipedia articles? (t · c) buidhe 04:02, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

• Buidhe, no, a lot of the content in this article came from my own research (but not WP:OR, to clarify) because this article covers the series as a whole, not necessarily each game in chronological order. This first alt is about the first game, but that article, funily enough, doesn't mention this because this article has yet to be revamped. The second alt isn't mentioned specifically in any article, more of a brief mention. I would like to mention, I did copy and paste sources from other articles in the series because I didn't want to write out the whole template again. Panini^🥪 14:16, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

• This substantial article replaces a redirect and is new enough and long enough. The hook facts are cited inline and either hook could be used, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright issues. A QPQ has been done. @Panini!: Can you please deal with the citation and clarification needed tags. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:42, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

• Cwmhiraeth, That was on the top of my to-do-list today. I'll ping you when it is finished. Panini^🥪 18:31, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

• Cwmhiraeth Sorry about two pings, but I already finished. Panini^🥪 19:00, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:15, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Paper Mario/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jaguar (talk · contribs) 00:35, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

I'll get to this soon. ♦ jaguar 00:35, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Jaguar, Man, the amount of GANs you've reviewed deserves a barnstar. Come to think of it... Panini^🥪 00:50, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Apologies for the delay. I've had a manic past few days with studying. I'll finish the review tomorrow. ♦ jaguar 21:15, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Jaguar, No problems with the delay. I'm open today to addressing the comments, too. Panini^🥪 13:18, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Lead

• "After Intelligent Systems was expanded to an official company" - sounds a bit vague; what does official company mean? Something like an independent developer?

   Done.

• "However, changes in development led the game to be Paper Mario, which was not a sequel" - sounds clunky. Try something like However, changes in development led the game to be Paper Mario, a standalone title

   Done.

• "The series later received multiple sequels" - instalments is more fitting

   Done.

• "This led the series to slowly change from role-playing games to more the action-adventure genre" - This led the series to slowly transition from role-playing games to the action-adventure genre

   Done.

• "The new style received mixed reception" - games such as? When did this new style materialise?

   Done.

• "with complaints regarding the new genre style" - repetition of 'style'

   Done.

Gameplay

"*All games except Super Paper Mario feature a turn-based combat system" - can this game be linked?

•  Done.

• "XP is still awarded for defeating enemies" - I thought experience points in these games were known as SP?
• "each game has a unique strategy element in lieu of XP." - same here

  Every secondary source keeps it simple and speaks of XP. Additionally, there's a little "known in-game as Star Points, or SP" in there, too.

Spin-off games

• "The game is a crossover between the Paper Mario series and Nintendo's other sub-series, Mario & Luigi" - link? nevermind, just discovered the series doesn't have an article

Development

• "Nintendo hired more employees and expanded the company to Intelligent Systems" - unclear. Did they transfer employees to Intelligent Systems, or form the company as an offshoot then and there?

   Done.

• "on the Super NES" - best to write the proper name Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) in the first instance

   Done.

• "and was cited to be the direct sequel to the previous game" - was it the direct sequel? Is there any reason to say it was 'cited'?

• Yes it was, and I changed some wording.  Done.

Reception

• I think the second and third paragraphs could be merged as it's the same game. Also, I would move the awards sentence ("The Thousand Year Door won "Role Playing Game of the Year" at the 2005 Interactive Achievement Awards") to the end of the newly-merged paragraph

  I'm not sure what you mean, the second paragraph is about TTYD and the third is about Super Paper Mario.

This is a solid article; it is well-written, comprehensive and the prose generally flows well. The references are also all in check and the images are fine. I've done some minor formatting so hope that's OK. Once all of the above are out of the way I'll be happy to promote this. ♦ jaguar 21:23, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Jaguar, Fixed the issues and left some comments on the others. Panini^🥪 11:00, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I must have misread the paragraphs in the reception section. Thanks for addressing them quickly, by all means this let's promote this. ♦ jaguar 22:04, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Too many images?

I just thought it would be something worth bringing up for possible featured articles, is it perhaps too many gameplay images? None of the other series articles use this many gameplay screenshots for a single series. I understand that each entry introduced a new system, but not every game should reflect the gameplay. Just worried it will fail NFCC.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 21:15, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Blue Pumpkin Pie, I was careful to make sure each image was used for a reason. Here's my reasoning:

1. The infobox image is a necessity to declare that the reader has found the right article, so the norm
2. The original Paper Mario logo is public domain
3. The Super Paper Mario image has very unique gameplay, so the visual is there for reader efficiency. Additionally, it was the first game to change gameplay, so the image exemplifies that
4. Similar reasoning for The Origami King combat image
5. The Paper Jam image is the only instance on Wikipedia where such an image exists, not even on the Paper Jam article. You saw it here first, folks! Also, since it is not a Paper Mario game it shows the reader what role Paper Mario plays in said game
6. The two images in development are public domain

And although this looks like too many gameplay images, look at Super Smash Bros. Panini^🥪 22:34, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

The Free images are of no concern, of course. The only concern I have is having each gameplay of each game from having gameplay images of Super Paper Mario and onwards. You really didn't bring up a reason as to why Color Splash gameplay needs to be reflected. If the pattern for each entry is that it changes the status quo, then there is no need to have so many images reflect each change. I especially think the Paper Jam gameplay should be in the Paper Jam article, it doesn't matter if it was intended for this article first.

If the images of each gameplay are brought into question for Super Smash Bros, I'm positive those would be easily challenged as well.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 23:32, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I decided to bring this topic to WT:VG for a more clearer consensus on how gameplay images are. We don't have to discuss it here since Super Smash Bros is also brought into question.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 23:41, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

The images for The Origami King and Paper Jam added nothing, so I've removed the former and moved the latter. It's also important to note that "this is the only place the image is used" is not valid reasoning unless it has a solid rationale (which it doesn't). The other two gameplay images add substance to the article, and their captions alone demonstrate their importance, so I think they should stay. – Rhain ☔ 23:51, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, the Origami King image reflected how the gameplay was again changed and focused on puzzle-solving (unlike strategy like the other two), but I don't mind it being removed. And, forgot to mention Blue Pumpkin Pie, the Color Splash image shows how the paper graphics, one of the core elements of the series, was finally emphasized with HD graphics, something often brought up by reviewers and the developers. Personally, I still think the Paper Jam has some purpose here but I don't want to start a debate that will ultimately not end in my favor. Nonetheless, thanks for making the changes Rhain. Panini^🥪 00:33, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

We should probably add a battle image, say from The Thousand-Year Door like this one? (Oinkers42) (talk) 01:15, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

I agree that having an image of standard combat would be necessary; as a visual with a lot of prose, it is one of the games core elements that is often brought up by the developers and reviewers. I put it in for you. Panini^🥪 01:32, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

@(Oinkers42) and Panini!: My issue with that gameplay image is that it doesn't add anything of value to the article, which fails WP:NFCC#8; the turn-based combat is already described appropriately in the "Gameplay" section and does not require any visuals for clarification. Meanwhile, the other two images add both value and clarification, and enhance the prose significantly: the Super Paper Mario image shows the flip between 2D and 3D (though I've clarified this), and the Color Splash image demonstrates the emphasised paper-like aesthetic. I don't see why the Thousand Year Door image is needed, besides decoration. – Rhain ☔ 01:56, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Logo

The current Paper Mario logo claims it was used since 2012, but it's very evident that the Paper Mario logo has been around since Super Paper Mario. I know the original Paper Mario is free content, but it just seems unnecessary. there wasn't a permanent logo for the series until Super Paper Mario. Is it vital or informative enough to have?Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 20:43, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Blue Pumpkin Pie, The Paper Mario header has been changed often but was made official in 2012. It looked like this before:

So they are different and therefore a caption is harmless. Panini^🥪 21:07, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

I see, my mistake then. I see the minor differences now.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 21:23, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

GOCE copyedit request

I lied, Panini! Turns out I've got quite a few questions.

FYI

 – Transferring Panini!'s responses from my talk page to here (clipping off question designations). —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:06, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

• Although the early games in the series were well-received, Kensuke Tanabe wanted each one to have a different style, with various genre and core gameplay elements. Wikilinks removed. Maybe do away with "style" and reword the latter part of the sentence to Tanabe wanted each one to have different genre and core gameplay elements? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Fair enough, change accordingly. Panini!^🥪 04:50, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Reworded as such. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:00, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

• Being nominated for a number of awards, The Thousand-Year Door won "Role Playing Game of the Year" at the 2005 Interactive Achievement Awards, Super Paper Mario won "Outstanding Role Playing Game" at the 12th Satellite Awards in 2007, and Sticker Star won "Handheld Game of the Year" at the 16th Annual D.I.C.E. Awards in 2012.

  Wikilinks removed, italics in original. Were all the games in the series nominees for multiple awards, or just these three? If it's the latter, it might be better to just mention which awards they've won. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, those are the only 3 awards the series has won. You can view the awards and nominations table at the bottom of the article. Panini!^🥪 04:34, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Reworded it to basically say all except two were nominated. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:00, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

• In the series, Mario is tasked with a quest to explore the Mushroom Kingdom. Wikilink removed. Isn't this only true for the first few games? Super Paper Mario definitely doesn't fit the bill. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Nintendo refers to the games as taking place in the Mushroom Kingdom in ads and the alike. In addition, they all take place in the same universe so that would make it all take place in The Mushroom Kingdom. If you are still skeptical, I bet I can find evidence. Panini!^🥪 04:37, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Leaving as is. Super Paper Mario uses Flipside as a hub town (which shouldn't be considered part of Mushroom Kingdom), but that's my experience. I'll leave it to whatever the RSes say. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:00, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

• Combat is similar to other RPG games [...] Don't think this is overly necessary, as many RPGs utilise random encounters where the enemies don't appear on-screen. It looks like it could be removed without affecting the rest of the sentence that follows. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Sounds good! You can remove it. Panini!^🥪 04:38, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Removed the fragment in question and merged the remainder with the previous sentence. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:00, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

• Alongside the use of stickers, Mario can "Paperize" the environment, causing his surroundings to lay down flat to reveal stickers and other secrets that are flat on the ground. It's "flat on the ground" that confuses me. Is the article saying that Mario's "Paperize" ability can flatten the surroundings to reveal hidden items that are on the ground (but they're not facing the sky)? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, this mistake was caught in the Paper Mario: Sticker Star article and was not fixed accordingly in this one. The environment fall flat, not Mario. Please adjust accordingly. Panini!^🥪 04:40, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Fixed. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:00, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

• Although Paper Jam is a crossover, it puts more emphasis toward gameplay than that of the Mario & Luigi series. Italics in original. I think "Paper Mario" is missing when talking about "gameplay". Should we add that in? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Its actually the opposite, but you wouldn't know that based on my prose. Its emphasizes Maroo & Luigi series gameplay rather than Paper Mario gameplay. Panini!^🥪 04:42, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Rephrased and clarified so that it sounds less awkward. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:00, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

• [...] however, the game was moved to the Wii in mid-2006, and released in April 2007. Does this mean the game was re-coded for the Wii, or that it was announced to be played on the Wii mid-2006? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

It was re-coded for the Wii. Panini!^🥪 04:42, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done. You might want to get a second opinion on if "port" is the correct verb to use; there might be an implication that the GameCube might still be the original release, but "move" didn't sound right (even though it's used in the source :/). —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:00, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

• After additional trailers at E3 2011 and Nintendo World 2011, the game and title were announced at E3 2012 [...] Already edited, wikilinks removed, emphasis added. What's the difference between a "game" and a "title" here? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Well, it seems I was referring to the game and the title OF the game. But fair point, it can be adjusted. Panini!^🥪 04:44, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Ah, I see what you're getting at now; the trailers for the game dropped without using its title. I've moved things around, which should clarify things.

• The series underwent changes in an attempt to reach new and various audiences. Already edited. This seems better placed at the beginning of a paragraph. At what point is the series considered to undergo changes to reach new audiences? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Well, they started at Super Paper Mario and nobody really cared and then drastic movement was made during Sticker Star. It would be your call on where to place this. Panini!^🥪 04:45, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done. I've placed it at the beginning of the subsection. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:00, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

• The artists made the worldbuilding and graphics look like paper and craft materials [...] Already edited. I can see how it applies to graphics, but how does "look[ing] like paper and craft materials" apply to worldbuilding? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC) (Amended 22:06, 24 June 2021 (UTC))

Good point! You can remove it. Panini!^🥪 04:46, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

• In a 2020 interview with Video Games Chronicle, Tanabe reaffirmed [...] Emphasis added. Where in the article does Tanabe make an earlier mention of "not ignoring 'casual players'"? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

He has said this in interviews before, but earlier statements of his ardent mentioned in the article. I might have been mentionings Risa Tabatas comments about similar matters a couple paragraphs before. You can remove it if you'd like. Panini!^🥪 04:49, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done. I think it should be fine with the addition of from previous interviews. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:00, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Looking forward to your responses. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

test reply (mobile editing) Panini!^🥪 04:22, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

@Panini!: I've exercised more personal discretion than usual so that we don't need to continue further discussion. I'll take a final look at it tomorrow to make sure everything's on the up-and-up. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:00, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Okay, Panini!, I think that's everything! Best of luck with the nomination! —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:02, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! Panini!^🥪 02:15, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Is this sentence correct? (edit was undone)

Hi, I edited this sentence "From Paper Mario: Sticker Star onwards, the Paper Mario games are more aimed towards the action-adventure genre." to read "From Paper Mario: Sticker Star onwards, the Paper Mario games were aimed more towards the action-adventure genre." but someone reverted this. Its minor, but "From Paper Mario: Sticker Star onwards, the Paper Mario games are more aimed towards the action-adventure genre." (the current version) just reads weird to me.. So I'm wondering if this sentence is actually correct and it just sounds weird? It seems to me like "aimed more towards" (my edit/suggestion) is better than "more aimed towards" (current version) -- And it also seems to me like "were" (not we're) would be better than are, but the person who undid the edit noted that the games are still made, so I'm not as sure about that. (don't know the exact tense rules for English)

Figured I'd comment here even though its a minor change DrDrago1337 (talk) 04:18, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

DrDrago1337, hello! Sorry for never answering your question, I could give an excuse here but I simply never noticed it. Looking back, I phrased the sentence like this due to the series still being an ongoing one. But taking a second look, I prefer your concept better. I made the change accordingly. Panini!^🥪 14:13, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

"Characters in the Paper Mario series" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Characters in the Paper Mario series has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 December 12 § Characters in the Paper Mario series until a consensus is reached. Jay 💬 07:22, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

"Paper Bowser" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Paper Bowser has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 July 22 § Paper Bowser until a consensus is reached. Jay 💬 15:30, 22 July 2024 (UTC)