Talk:Oceanic climate

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 April 2020 and 5 June 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Shreya90803.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bad example given

Santiago, Chile experiences a Mediterranean climate (similar to southern California). The southern part of Chile, however, is a better example for this maritime climate- although there are no notable cities to cite.

Examples of cities and places in southern Chile with an oceanic climate include Coyhaique, Puerto Aisén, Valdivia and Puerto Montt. Ssbbplayer (talk) 23:31, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merger Discusion

Merge proposed by user:Bluap

'13:17, 7 March 2006 Bluap (+merge)' — user talk:Bluap

Just MOVED newbie created: 'The Cool Western Temperate Maritime Climate' to empty alt. term already referenced in article text 'Marine west coast climate' on naming convention grounds. Asked for a speedy-D on the auto-created redirect remainder.
Believe the article contents are redundant, and perhaps over general

So,Support Merging, unless there is a considerable use of the alternate term. FrankB 18:06, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

These two articles are descriping the same climate, so I support Merging. Orcaborealis 20:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

_________________ What about Berlin? Isn't the climate there oceanic, even though it's a ways inland?

Berlin has a in-between climate, but slightly more oceanic, because there are no real mountain ranges to block the mild, humid air from the Atlantic.Orcaborealis 22:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

San Francisco reference

The articles currently says: San Francisco, California has a temperature range characteristic of an oceanic climate but so little rainfall during a summer almost indistinguishable from its winter by temperature that it must be considered part of a Mediterranean climate zone. This is insightful and perhaps it should be noted in mediterranean climate. Of interest, the inverse is true of Victoria, Canada, since it is clearly in a West Coast/ Oceanic regime but exhibits some mediterranean climate characteristics due to rain shadows- namely, relatively dry (but cool) summers. 66.183.217.31 23:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eastern Washington and Oregon?

The article mentions Patagonia as a dry Oceanic climate. Isn't eastern Washington and Oregon a dry oceanic climate for the exact same reasons (That is, lying east of a mountain range that causes a rainshadow)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.57.220.63 (talk) 00:31, 10 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Both Patagonia and eastern Oregon/Washington are rainshadow semideserts in lowlands and should be treated as such. They can be discussed in the context of oceanic climates for temperature range only if they are recognized as cool steppes (BSk). --Paul from Michigan 03:38, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Source of term Oceanic

I can't seem to find much about the use of the word "Oceanic" to describe this climate. Can someone point me to a source? I've found a few sources that use the term "Oceanic", but mostly in a very general sense that would include a lot more than "Marine west coast". I like the term "Oceanic" better than "Marine west coast", since not all such climate regions are on west coasts. But I'm wondering where the term comes from. Pfly 06:43, 15 April 2007 (UTC) I guess that means you think -3C should be the c/d border. So do I. I like the term "oceanic." Press olive, win oil (talk) 19:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cwb and Cfc

I'm confused by the mention of tropical highlands, which are mentioned twice but not really explained. Is it the Cwb climate type? The Köppen climate classification page says places like Mexico City are Cwb, and that Cfb climates include places like Bogotá, Colombia. I can believe that under a strict Köppen system places like this would get classed this way, but does it make sense to call them "Marine west coast climate" and "maritime climate", as this page says "Oceanic climate" is synonymous with? The altitude of Mexico City and Bogotá may make for similar temperature and precipitation patterns, but other climatic factors associated with "Marine west coast climate", like midlatitude westerlies blowing over oceans, doesn't make sense for these tropical places. Should I edit it so the tropical statements are indicated as specific to Köppen's system and not typical of the climate as a regional zone of many factors? Pfly 06:43, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of countries

Wonder if it would be a good idea to show a list of countries or regions with this climate? Paddy Reilly from Cavan, 21:23, 17th August 2007 (UTC)

Alps in Italy

The Alps in Italy only have a climate between the Oceanic Climate and the Hemiboreal Climate between 700 and 1000 meters. For exemple, Tarvisio(750mtrs), where the winter's averages are -2.9°C, and the summer's 17°C. If the city in the Alps is above 1000 meters we find Hemiboreal Climates, (1000~1600), like in Dobbico, that is colder than Oslo and Helsink, with averages of -4.8°C during the winter and 16°C during the summer. Between 1600 and 2200 mtrs, Sub-Artic Climate, like northermost Norway. Rolle Pass's averages are -5.2°C and 11°C. Between 2200 and 3600, tundra climate, as in Pian Rosa (summer= 1.8°C, winter= -11.8°C). Above 3600 meters trere is a perpetual frost climate, EF, as Capanna Regina Margherita, where the averages are -18°C and -6°C.

So, I think it's wrong to say that Italian's Alps are 'between' Oceanic and Hemiborel climate. It depends on how high the place is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.100.188.204 (talk) 03:47, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Oceanic Climates in India

"Mountainous locations in some tropical countries (e.g. Indian subcontinent, Latin America, south-east Asia, southern and central Africa; often as cwb)"

Where on the Indian subcontinent do oceanic climates exist? What mountainous locations can it be found in? Is the climate (as well as the mountainous locations where they can be found) only found exclusively in the deep North? Zachorious 07:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Atacama desert

I don't think the Atacama desert is a proper example of an oceanic rainshadow. I believe it's more similar to Namibia or Baja California, which are caused by a very different effect. Notably, the Atacama is WEST of the mountains, not east as in Columbia Basin or Patagonia oceanic rainshadows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.27.154 (talk) 05:24, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Atacama desert is tropical dry, which it is also west coast, but tropical climate. It has nothing to do with marine temperate west coast high latitude climates.

Marine climates are bordered with medirerranean climates. The more equatorbound one goes insite a marine climate region, the more mediterranean the climate becomes. There's always a dry summer influence. London NW Europe, Vancouver NW North America, Puerto Natales / Puerto Eden SW South America, experience a slightly drier summer given the proximity with a mediterranean climate region on the equatorside.

The areas by the border between Mediterranean climate and marine climate are quite rainy, however they do have a well defined dry summer. It's more or less located by the paralel 40: Porto, Portugal; Vigo, Spain, Bordeaux, France; Northern California and coastal Oregon, US; Puerto Montt and Valdivia, Chile, The west coast of Tasmania, Australia; and the west coast of New Zealand's South Island.

Cfb above Cfa?

Is this correct, that some highland areas above humid subtropical areas (i.e. the southern Appalachians) fall in Cfb? I always thought the C-D line (coldest month below 0°C/32°F) was below the a-b line (warmest month above 22°C/72°F), but maps seem to suggest otherwise. CrazyC83 (talk) 15:41, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sydney?

How come Sydney appears in two separate climate zones?

Veluriel (talk) 10:49, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I removed it, since it (based on the data shown) is just inside the humid subtropical zone. CrazyC83 (talk) 15:00, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sydney (paralel 34) is subtropical east coast. It has nothing to do with high latitude west coast marine climates — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.181.151.114 (talk) 08:33, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Climate charts

I removed the climate charts for Puerto Montt, Chile and Melbourne, Australia and replaced them with Tsitsikamma, South Africa and Aukland New Zealand to give a better spread of locations (One each for South America, Southern Africa, Australia and New Zealand.)

For the Northern Hemisphere I added a chart for Seattle, USA. There is room for another two Northern Hemisphere charts but as this climate is hardly found in Asia I think the spread is OK as it is. Booshank (talk) 17:02, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You said "One each for South America, Southern Africa, Australia and New Zealand", but I haven't seen a single climate chart for an Australian location on this page. I'll add Sydney, Australia.--Just James ^T/C 10:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Galicia (Spain) has Oceanic climate

That place is extremely rainy, it should be included (along with Asturias and the rest of North-Western Spain). --Taraborn (talk) 21:34, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the map is incorrect. Sothern Galicia has some mediterranean influence, especially Ourense province, but northern area is totaly oceanic.

A Coruña, Santiago de Compostela and Vigo should be included in the city list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.111.155.172 (talk) 11:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The's the point. This region is borderline with a mediterranean climate region - just like Portugal's northwest, norhtern California, Central Southwest Chile, etc.

This sub-region is marked by rain, plenty of it, howeven it has a a dry summer seanon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.181.151.114 (talk) 08:37, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm reverting the example of A Coruña as a city with oceanic climate, as it actually does meet the Koeppen standards for a "Csb" climate and is thus 'warm-summer Mediterranean'. The driest month in A Coruña's summer is <40 mm and it is less than 1/3 as rainy as the wettest winter month. Redtitan (talk) 04:21, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The map

The map, in regards to Europe, flatly contradictes the description. For example virtually all of Europe ( except the alps ) is shown in the map as an oceanic climate which is obviously inaccurate as anyone who has lived in or vistied these regions can testify! 86.33.176.57 (talk) 07:47, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No. Using the original boundary between the C and D climates (-3 C or snowline), the map is actually quite correct.Orcaborealis (talk) 19:39, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The map is 'correct' but isn'nt appropriate for the top of this article. The map shows regions with some of the Koppen C (temperate) climates, but some of the C climates shown are not oceanic climates. That is why the map is 'correct' but showing it at the top of an article on oceanic climates is misleading. 67.1.122.100 (talk) 00:46, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oceanic has geographic variations which can be expanded upon

This climate group has many geographical variations which can be expanded upon if we can find proper references. For example, much of continental Europe experiences regular, short summer thunderstorms, probably resulting from the warmer temperatures and lack on mountain barriers. This gives many places within this climate group summer rainfall levels that keep it from being a Mediterranean climate (Csa), even though places like Bordeaux may be borderline. Northern Europe, including most of the UK, experience much more persistant cloud-cover, cooler summers, and annual rainfall is spread throughout the year. Originally from England, I'm used to rain year-round. I've been living in Vancouver for a while tho', and the summer is quite dry compared to the UK or Amsterdam, yet the winter rain more than makes up for it (Not always tho'... it's dry and sunny right now). From what I've experienced and heard, this is typical of the Pacific Northwest. In fact, many areas can be classified as Csb because the short dry period in summer meets the lower precipitation thresholds (not Vancouver, it's just over), in spite of the fact that the annual precipitation is pretty normal for Cfa. Finally, the highland subtropical could be better explained and maybe even merits its own article (Cwa).Koppenlady (talk) 22:39, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. About precipitation: The wettest location (apart from maybe some mountains) in Norway, Brekke in Gulen in Sogn og Fjordane (north of Bergen) has average annual precipitation of 3575 mm (Cfc climate due to altitude 240 m), and Takle, also in Gulen, has an average of 3179 mm (Cfb climate) as seen here:Gulen climate 1961-90.Orcaborealis (talk) 17:32, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree for the most part. I must admit I'm very uncomfortable including Seattle & Portland as Mediterranean climates. The landscape of these two cities just doesn't strike me as mediterranean and the concept of sunshine becomes very abstract for the majority of the year up there. This is something more common with Oceanic climates. As for the subtropical highland climate section, it could use more detail, but I'm not sure if it warrants a separate page. Besides, for the most part it's generally just a higher-altitude, more moderate version of an Oceanic climate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by G. Capo (talk • contribs) 06:10, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I too am uncomfortable with the "Mediterranean" label for the Pacific Northwest. That is why I re-worked the Mediterranean climate article to distinguish between Mediterranean as a climate similar to that found throughout most of the Mediterranean Basin, and Koeppen's Cs zones. To me, the term "dry-summer subtropical" (as Koeppen calls it) and "Mediterranean" are not necessarily the same thing. This certainly sheds light on Koeppen's shortfalls, much as both Washington and New Orleans are both grouped in the same Cwa zone when one is clearly "subtropical" and the other isn't. As this Spanish bioclimate study shows (pull down "summary" from the menu), the Pacific Northwest (represented here by Chilliwack, British Columbia) has an Oceanic bioclimate, with a "sub-Mediterranean" variant. This makes much more sense to me and, hopefully, is the start of a better, more comprehensive system than Koeppen. Koppenlady (talk) 17:36, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Marine West Coast Climate subsection?

I was just thinking of creating a new sub-section for the oceanic climate page entitled "Marine West Coast climates". This which would basically describe oceanic climates that have a distinct "Mediterranean-like" drying trend during the summer months. Since this variant of the Oceanic climate is apparently found on the west coasts of some continents (and not just North America), it may warrant its own section. What do you think? G. Capo (talk) 18:07, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In principle, I agree and this dovetails with my suggestion above. However, keep in mind that "Marine", "West Coast" and "Oceanic" are synonymous terms. I suggest keeping it under a general "characteristics", "regional variations" or whatever heading to avoid confusion. Also, careful if you call places with Csb climates "Oceanic"- if we are talking about Koeppen's system, these climates are not Cfb, even if most people (you and me included) don't see eye to eye with Koeppen on this. Go for it! Koppenlady (talk) 20:30, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just wondering where "Average monthly precipitation during the area's driest month is below 60 mm, which would constitute a dry season month" came from. Probably needs to be cited. Koppenlady (talk) 18:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ushuaia

According to the Ushuaia article, and according to this link, the 24-hr average in the warmest month is only 9°C. That would make it a tundra climate, as the Cfc climate need at least one month with 24-hr average at least 10°C. Orcaborealis (talk) 18:58, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but according to the WMO, the city does have one month above 10 C. It's close enough. G. Capo (talk) 22:04, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is a borderline Cfc/Et climate, and this should be stated, and I added it. I can see no trees in the images from Ushuaia. But if you look at the images from Puerto Williams, (not far away) there is subpolar forest. The latter is probably more sheltered and thus slightly warmer in summer. Orcaborealis (talk) 18:35, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bratislava

The capital of Slovakia has an oceanic climate Cfb according to Koppen as seen here.Orcaborealis (talk) 19:08, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As the link above provided average max temp and average min temp so the 24-hr average was not explicitly stated, here is a link that provides the 24-hr average for each month, which is what is used for climate classification. As seen, Bratislava is clearly warmer than the Koppen threshold of -3 C and has precipitation well spread over the year.Orcaborealis (talk) 19:56, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Oceanic climate

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Oceanic climate's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "HKO":

From Bogotá: "Climatological Normals of Bogota". Hong Kong Observatory. Retrieved 2010-05-09.
From Portland, Oregon: "Climatological Normals of Portland, OR". Hong Kong Observatory. Retrieved 2010-06-26.
From South Africa: "Climatological Normals of Cape Town". Hong Kong Observatory. Retrieved 2010-05-23.
From Johannesburg: "Climatological Normals of Johannesburg". Hong Kong Observatory. Retrieved 2010-05-09.
From Nairobi: "Climatological Normals of Nairobi". Hong Kong Observatory. Retrieved 2010-05-09.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 00:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Climate or climate type?

I'm a little confused about this page, epsecially the lead. It starts off saying that oceanic climate (AKA marine west coast climate, etc) is a climate. But shouldn't it be called a "climate type", or class? Or a "type of climate"? The second paragraph says of the "climate": Generally, they fall into Köppen climate classification Cfb or Cwb. Alright, but what about other climate classification systems? Is this page about the Köppen system or something more general? The way it begins suggests something more general, but as you read on it is pretty clearly about the Köppen system only. That's fine, but if so, shouldn't the lead say from the start that the page is about one of the Köppen climate classes? Pfly (talk) 20:54, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Addressed your comment about the first line of the article, where you have a good point. This climate classification is a Köppen one, so it makes sense that it is the only climate system addressed. Thegreatdr (talk) 16:08, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Vancouver should be listed under "Notable cities with oceanic climates"

If Seattle is listed under "Notable cities with oceanic climates" (and it is), then why isn't Vancouver-BC? In fact, just before it, under "North America", Seattle and Vancouver are listed together, under the general heading of "Regions/Cities with oceanic climates". Yet under "Notable cities with oceanic climates", Seattle is there but Vancouver is missing. Portland-OR is also missing, for that matter, who is also listed under "North America".
--Atikokan (talk) 02:14, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Puerto Montt hasn't csb climate

Puerto Montt hasn't csb climate. The driest month has a rain of 90 mm...http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Montt#Clima. Some cities like Temuco o Concepción has csb climate. I edited the article.--Serbesa (talk) 03:18, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Restructuring and reorganization

Per wikipedia standards, Wikipedia:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_directory. Not only were there lists of cities within sections of this article, which people were squabbling about within the edit summary, but there were a whole slew of graphs at the end with information from the same cities, which essentially constituted a gallery, which violated the idea of Wikipedia:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_mirror_or_a_repository_of_links.2C_images.2C_or_media_files. The sections headers have been retitled, and no longer use the words oceanic climate within their titles per MoS. Some extraneous text, which introduced possible European-centered POV or led to an unencyclopedaic feel were removed. Efforts have begun to source the text of this article, which have already led to some changes. The lead should read like a lead now, acting as an article summary. If more referencing can be provided, this article can be elevated to C class. Content is not the issue. Referencing is. Tags have been placed at the top of sections which still have no references. Thegreatdr (talk) 17:31, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The free for all is beginning to resume when it comes to the cities being within certain climates. Why must people do this? I see the climate graph gallery has re-appeared. Can we agree to limit the climate graphs to one per regime? The current structure would never pass GA standards, if we were to ever think of sending this article through that process. All additions of cities without referencing will be rolled back. Thegreatdr (talk) 19:57, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The graphs as it stands now is basically one graph per continent. The graphs are there to illustrate the subtle differences in temperature and precipitation patterns between the cities. Also, even though we have two European cities here, London and Bordeaux have noticeable differences, particularly in average temps. That's why they're both there. G. Capo (talk) 22:21, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What we have to ask ourselves is "Would an encyclopedia present its article on oceanic climate with this many city charts?" I think you'd be lucky if it included one or two total. Thegreatdr (talk) 02:57, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Another set of changes has been made, to reduce the size of the non-wikipedia supported gallery. Thegreatdr (talk) 16:15, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Csb issues - Edits proposed

The Csb Problematics section is poorly written. Someone with expertise in the topic who can also write sentences in good English should edit it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.97.57.140 (talk) 22:04, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I had edit the page about Csb areas, but apparently, there is no consensus, so some explanations and sources :

using the expression "generally considered as oceanic" about the Csb areas is wrong, and an original POV : the most widely climatic system used (Köppen-Geiger) says that Csb is not oceanic. Some other scientists like Trewartha has edit this system by including Northern coastal areas of Spain and NW coastal US in the oceanic domain (Do), but not all the actual Csb areas (which extend until the NW Spanish meseta, also Central Turkey, California, Albania mountains...). So, it would be wrong to generalize all the Csb areas as "oceanic" with this author. Thorthwaite system is not very different than the Trewartha's work.

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/EART/images/kottek_et_al_2006_part.gif

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/weather/56180d1263187925-ultimate-climate-poll-koppen-climate-classification-kottek_et_al_2006.gif

http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/ad652e/ad652e33.gif Northern Portugal is not included in the Do Trewartha classification

http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/ad652e/ad652e33.gif

about sunshine, it is wrong to say that Csb areas are not sunny. I copy past some coastal areas locations, but if you take Csb in Turkey or in Albania, the sunshine is far higher, almost the same as Csa.

Cfb: Brest, Dublin, Paris, Blackpool : about 1500-1600 hours

http://climat.meteofrance.com/chgt_climat2/climat_france?73928.path=climatstationn%252F29075001

http://www.met.ie/climate/dublinairport.asp

http://climat.meteofrance.com/chgt_climat2/climat_france?CLIMAT_PORTLET.path=climatstationn%2F75114001

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/19712000/sites/blackpool.html

Csb: La Coruna, Victoria, Vigo, Portland (not the same criterion in the US website) : about 2000-2300 hours

http://www.aemet.es/es/elclima/datosclimatologicos/valoresclimatologicos?l=1387&k=gal

http://climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/climate_normals/results_e.html?Province=ALL&StationName=victoria&SearchType=BeginsWith&LocateBy=Province&Proximity=25&ProximityFrom=City&StationNumber=&IDType=MSC&CityName=&ParkName=&LatitudeDegrees=&LatitudeMinutes=&LongitudeDegrees=&LongitudeMinutes=&NormalsClass=A&SelNormals=&StnId=113&

http://www.aemet.es/es/elclima/datosclimatologicos/valoresclimatologicos?l=1495&k=gal

http://monde.meteofrance.com/monde/climat?68991.path=climatstation%252F72698

I prefer to use the comparatives ("damper", "cooler"...) than the single adjectives, because it marks a nuance. In fact, if the summer temperatures are relly cool in Western US, they remain still warm in NW Spain in the Trewartha Do area (about 19-20°C for the hottest mont in Galicia), compare with the 16°C or 17°C in NW Europe.

Conclusion : all the edits are sourced by official data and academic authors. The rest seems to be personnal view of what should be oceanic or not. I wait for comments before editing --Milkrawler (talk) 22:49, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- Anything not backup up by a reference can be, and probably should be, removed. Be bold and edit away, adding the appropriate sources. Thegreatdr (talk) 16:24, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- I just want to stress that I'm acting more like an "interested outsider" and a "copyeditor" here, rather than a subject expert. The reorganizations I made in the article were just according to my (possibly flawed) reading of the existing (possibly flawed) text. From that viewpoint, I renamed the section to "Csb climates often considered Oceanic", to stress that they're not "true" Oceanic, but I still think that it should be under "Varieties" chapter. The alternative is to remove it altogether, because it's unsourced. I believe User:G. Capo is knowledgeable on the subject, but his edits often run short of WP:NOR and WP:V. So, be bold and just change the article as you see fit, especially if you can provide the references. No such user (talk) 09:18, 21 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I have moved the sentance "often considered..." because it is wrong and not sourced. First because most of the Köppen-Geiger updates do not say so, second, and because the alternative works (though less used, ex : Trewartha) include only some parts of Csb areas in the oceanic domain. I leave this section in the part "variety", but it is still debatable. --Milkrawler (talk) 20:18, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The map

Should the current map be kept, or should it be replaced by the previous map? The second map is obviously much more detailed, but it apparently uses 0°C winter isotherm (meaning that under 0°C it's not oceanic climate anymore), while the usually used isotherm in Koppen climate classification is -3°C. The second map also includes Cwb and Cwc oceanic climates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.161.214.21 (talk) 21:25, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In my view, the choice would either be to use the map using the original Köppen isotherm of -3C (the Cfc category is virtually lost in the second map using 0C) or use both maps and explain the difference and why both is used. Orcaborealis (talk) 08:38, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The first map is the best, no discussion. The isotherm 0°C used by the American scientists is completely absurd. Originally, the continental climate is defined by long cold periods in the winter, and very short or no mild periods, hence the -3°C isotherm chosen by Köppen. It means that in a more or less extend, the frost and the snow is a reality for almost the entire winter. If you take the 0°C isotherm, regions as Eastern Germany or Danemark are considered as continental, while there, the winter regularly alternate mild and cold periods, and in some years, almost frost or snow, which is a typical oceanic feature.--92.161.48.209 (talk) 20:32, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly disagree. The continental climate is defined by temperatures cold enough to support a fixed period of snow each year. Under -3°C isotherm both Prague (-2.5°C in January) and Krakow (-2.1°C) would fall under Oceanic climate and Warszaw with -3°C would be on the border between the two, although all these cities have snow regularly every winter. So the second map is the best in any case. --Thonos (talk) 18:33, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me there are problems with most of the maps on climate pages. An example relevant here is the climate of Portland, Oregon. The first map shown here, File:Koppen classification worldmap CfbCfc.png, does not include Portland (the dotted latitude line south of the area shown as Oceanic in the Pacific Northwest is the 45th parallel north, more or less the latitude of Portland. The text points out that Portland's climate is problematic within the Köppen system, but can be called Csb, which, according to Template:Koppen is a Mediterranean climate. However, the map on that page shows the climate type not extended north of about the 40th parallel north. In short, according to Wikipedia's climate maps, Portland does not fall into any climate. It is south of "Oceanic" and north of "Mediterranean". So, what is it? I'm no expert on climate classification, so I feel unable to address this. But it does seem wrong for the pages linked to from Template:Koppen fail to cover all regions. The whole Oregon coast is left undefined, according to the maps. I realize there are multiple ways to define climate classes and it can get complicated. But is it not possible for the various climate maps to at least be consistent? Pfly (talk) 07:52, 26 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The map doesn't make any sense to me either. I grew up in Portland, and I don't know what you'd classify it as besides oceanic. It is cloudy and rainy for 9 months and has dry warm summers, just 3 months maximum. The Oregon coast is definitely oceanic. For at least 9 months it literally rains all the time. Portland is just a little drier than the coast and Seattle because of a minor rain shadow from the low elevation coast mountains. The map doesn't even include the Olympic peninsula which is the wettest temperate region in the entire world, with over 120 inches of rain per year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:DA8:D800:107:F14A:B35D:E377:F872 (talk) 08:14, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The cwb box at the bottom of the current map should be highlighted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthew138s (talk • contribs) 04:03, 2 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Has this poor, suffering article really been inflicted with this bloody awful map (in which African and Mexican arid areas are painted green) for nine years? Hairy balls of the gods, will someone blow it up already? --2601:444:300:EA10:4D00:8B3:B520:6354 (talk) 01:44, 9 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wise words from someone that calls central mexico Arid!! PAper GOL (talk) 14:53, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Converting RELATIVE °C to °F

I have boldly reposted my edit changing a relative temperature difference of 14 °C as 25 °F not the original 57 °F which would have been fine if we were discussing the conversion of the actual temperature 14 °C which we are not. 76.119.63.117 (talk) 04:11, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for spotting that. I used {{convert}} to automatize the conversion. No such user (talk) 12:02, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was reading this page doing research, and the incorrect Fahrenheit conversion of 14 °C stood out. As expressed, it is an absolute temperature, not a relative temperature: "The annual average temperature range in the British Isles is only about 14 °C (25 °F).[6] " Can the owner of this page just fix it instead of talking about it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djenning90 (talk • contribs) 08:13, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The key word here is "range." A range of temperatures is a difference between the highest value and the lowest value. A range of 14 °C is equivalent to a range of 25 °F as each Celsius degree equals 1.8 Fahrenheit degrees. The conversion template will not correctly convert ranges or differences of temperature. See the discussion of this here where the difference between Celsius degrees and degrees Celsius is explicitly explained. AmateurEpistemologist (talk) 16:08, 13 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The incorrect conversion of a range of 14 C to a range of 57 F was still present as of 2014-02-09. I fixed it to read the correct 25 F. --Cbmclean (talk) 03:56, 10 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Northern New Zealand

In this article, all of New Zealand is classified as oceanic in the maps etc. But in the Subtropics article, northern New Zealand is classified as subtropical. Can they both be right? Kahuroa (talk) 22:47, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest being bold and finding a reliable source to figure out which one it is. Once you do, provide an appropriate inline reference to the proper article, and eliminate the content from the other. Thegreatdr (talk) 23:50, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that, but I was hoping to get a bit of consensus in this case since the subtropical/warm temperate debate is contentious on articles like Auckland and I have been involved there off and on. Kahuroa (talk) 01:36, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think the problem is that the map used on the Subtropics article is inaccurate regarding northern NZ. Kahuroa (talk) 20:54, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"British climate"

Does anyone have a reference for the use of the term "British climate" as a name for the climate across the world?lumleysgreek (talk) 05:19, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

sentence

This is especially the case in the Pacific Northwest region of the United States and Canada, some sections of coastal Chile, in Galicia in northwestern Spain and in northern Portugal, where conditions are wetter and generally cloudier during the course of the year than typical Csb climates this needs a reference. the reference used was just a GIF with global climmatic patterns. while being wetter is common sense, being cloudier needs proper referencing,. besides, the climate in the North and Galicia are not the same, not even in Northern Portugal just by itself, and much less when compared to Galicia.---PedroPVZ 13:08, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Nonsense

The annual average temperature range in the British Isles is only about 14 °C This is pure nonsense; I would want some VERY good data to back it up (the link shows nothing). In half a century of living here I've never known a summer where it didn't get at least to 20 degrees or a winter where it didn't fall below freezing. My guess is that the range is at least 50% higher than this, borne out by the data here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London.82.26.218.84 (talk) 23:42, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is probably an unfortunate formulation; according to the London daily chart, the difference between January and July average daily highs is 15 °C indeed. However, I agree that it's misleading and should be changed to reflect an average person's notion of "average temperature range", which is probably July max – January min. No such user (talk) 12:27, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Having re-checked

"UK mapped climate averages, 1981-2010". Met Office - UK's National Weather Service. Retrieved 2014-11-02.

There is no way those 14 C can be correct (the warmest area of London alone has 2°C average low – 23°C average highs, and where are Scottish highlands?), so I finally removed it. No such user (talk) 15:58, 11 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Subantarctic islands

Don't many subantarctic islands, especially those in the Roaring Forties close to the Antarctic Convergence, also have oceanic climates (usually of the subpolar variety)? For example, Crozet Islands#Climate claims that the Crozet Islands have a tundra climate, but the temperatures are far too high for that. That the archipelago is covered by tundra-like vegetation is due to the isolation and windiness of the islands, not the temperature, which is mostly above freezing, and there is no permafrost. On Île Amsterdam, the climate is actually quite temperate, and classifiable as regular oceanic. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:41, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I see now: None of the average monthly temperatures on the Crozet Islands or the Price Edward Islands rises above 10 °C. Still, their version of a tundra climate is comparatively mild and oceanic-like, so even if their climate is technically not subpolar oceanic, it is close. In contrast, the Auckland Islands do feature a true subpolar oceanic climate, where megaherbs thrive. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:48, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Trewartha

This is not a suggestion to add this map to the Oceanic climate section, but I just made a map of the contiguous US for Trewartha and wanted to display it here for the sake of informing discussion. Trewartha maps seem to be extremely lacking, and it was interesting to see how oceanic climate ended up being distributed. I calculated it from data normals from PRISM, so it's high quality data (and no subjective input on my part - pixels were classified based on how they met the criteria for Trewartha).

Personally, I think I'm now a fan of Koeppen, despite the Csb/Cfb west coast craziness. Trewartha places a belt of oceanic climate between the humid subtropical and continental zones, that extends deep into the Midwest. Having oceanic climate in Kansas feels a bit more absurd than my living in temperate rainforest in Washington state and it being classified as Mediterranean. Redtitan (talk) 05:07, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Orphaned references in Oceanic climate

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Oceanic climate's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "McKnight":

From Tropical monsoon climate: McKnight, Tom L; Hess, Darrel (2000). "Climate Zones and Types". Physical Geography: A Landscape Appreciation. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall. ISBN 0-13-020263-0.
From Tropical rainforest climate: McKnight, Tom L; Hess, Darrel (2000). "Climate Zones and Types". Physical Geography: A Landscape Appreciation. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall. pp. 205–8. ISBN 0-13-020263-0.
From Tropical climate: McKnight, Tom L; Hess, Darrel (2000). "Climate Zones and Types: The Köppen System". Physical Geography: A Landscape Appreciation. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall. pp. 205–211. ISBN 0-13-020263-0.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 16:43, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Subtropical highlands

I think that subtropical highlands should have a separate article from Oceanic climate. They are so different from Oceanic climate that they should be separated. Also, much more information and details should be added to subtropical highlands section because too little of information is present now. (Shaheen Hassan (talk) 08:48, 23 December 2019 (UTC))[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2022

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Please amend Londons climate regarding Thunderstorms. London has frequent thunderstorms throught the Summer period as it most usually has warm to very hot summers.

Thank you 2A02:C7E:32C1:DE00:E8AB:FCD4:40A9:55C2 (talk) 15:50, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2022

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Change the reference in Marine west coast (Cfb) section from southwest Alaska to Southeast Alaska. This would also bring consistency with the Americas section talking about the Alaskan panhandle as that is also referencing southeast Alaska. This is further supported by the World map showing oceanic climate zones at the top of the page showing the Cfb climate type in the panhandle of Alaska, but not in southwestern Alaska (the Aleutians).

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Largoplazo (talk) 15:58, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: closing edit request 💜 melecie talk - 00:36, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Check the map on the existing page. The panhandle of Alaska (i.e. southeast Alaska) is colored green indicating the presence of the Oceanic climate. There is no green in southwest Alaska. Additionally, also on the existing page the article refers to the panhandle of Alaska (southeast Alaska) in the Cfb section. I don't know what else you want. It seems like an error in the text to me. This is the reference that is in the existing article. ^[1] 24.237.114.109 (talk) 23:28, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done After reviewing the map in the article and verifying what the different regions of Alaska are, as I am admittedly not an Alaska expert, to the best of my research it would appear the IP is correct. Therefore, I've boldly completed this request. —Sirdog (talk) 02:04, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ M. C. Peel; B. L. Finlayson & T. A. McMahon (11 October 2007). "Updated world map of the Köppen-Geiger climate classification" (PDF). Hydrology and Earth System Sciences. 11 (5): 1638–1643. Bibcode:2007HESS...11.1633P. doi:10.5194/hess-11-1633-2007. Retrieved 30 January 2011.

Sources which support subtropical highland climates being oceanic varieties

I've noticed in this talk page that a few people in earlier years have disputed subtropical highland climates (especially the Cwb & Cwc classifications) being classified alongside oceanic climates or counted as an oceanic climate sub-types/varieties. So in light of that & the recent edit warring which took place in this article throughout this month, I would like to point out that there are some sources which do support the Cwb & Cwc subtropical highland climates as being either a variety of the oceanic climate or classified together with oceanic climates (e.g. https://www.callisonrtkl.com/climate-scout/zone/cwb_subtropical-highland/#, http://omeka.wustl.edu/omeka/files/original/002082bc97e1c5927def6a9c6b6870cc.pdf, https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Fisheries_and_Marine_Science/lk9LEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=subtropical+highland+climate+oceanic&pg=PA17&printsec=frontcover, https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Adapting_the_Built_Environment_for_Clima/q3qAEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=subtropical+highland+climate+oceanic&pg=PA187&printsec=frontcover) not to mention in the Köppen climate classification, they are grouped alongside oceanic climates.

I have mentioned some of these sources recently (at least the book sources) into the subtropical highland climate section because that section here didn't have much sources to support the information & I would also point out that in addition to the monsoon-influenced subtropical highland climates (Cwb & Cwc), there are subtropical highland climates which have rainfall distributed relatively evenly in all months (classified as Cfb like other oceanic climates) and they would also be considered oceanic climate varieties (perhaps almost completely identical to oceanic climates compared to Cwb & Cwc climates, but that being said Cwb & Cwc are still also considered oceanic varieties according to these sources). Broman178 (talk) 08:53, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good, But the section still has some issues like that Spring-like weather definition which is not clear at all(tagged explain), or the example list that is 90% copy-pasted. I also doubt if its true to call Cwc type subpolar. Because it is rarely found in subpolar regions.(If even found there at the first palce.) PAper GOL (talk) 07:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your response. I definitely do agree that Cwc climates are not the same as subpolar oceanic climates which is why I've tweaked the title in that section to "Subpolar oceanic and cold subtropical highland varieties" (alongside adding a separate bit to that section for cold subtropical highland climates) and also tweaked the lead to mention "cold subtropical highland climates" to differentiate between the two because I've made similar changes to the temperate climate article. As for the spring-like section & other bits, I'm not quite sure what to do for those although if I can find sources which talk about this, I might add them on if I get time, otherwise those bits could be reworded and/or removed. Broman178 (talk) 10:42, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the change, Keep it up.

I have problem with spring-like weather definition because it is not clear one. Not everywhere in the world has the same weather in Spring, nor the same place experiences the same weather every Spring. It is a season lasting almost 3 months, it can be quite cold or very warm(or both!).

There is no need to rush for the change, just a better definition is needed which may be found in a source.PAper GOL (talk) 06:48, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've just realized that the PDF source you provided cites WIKIPEDIA! One may wonder if the other ones have the same problem.PAper GOL (talk) 06:11, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fortunately the rest of your sources do not have this problem.PAper GOL (talk) 06:14, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Trewartha

@Heff01 I appreciate your contributions to the example list, but your note about Trewartha climate classification makes the article a bit confusing because not even a single word in this article is about Trewartha classification and how it differs from Köppen.PAper GOL (talk) 06:00, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I largely agree with this. We should add more information about Trewartha, or we should be removing the distinction; especially as we don't do this to any other climate page either. Uness232 (talk) 03:00, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Information Literacy and Scholarly Discourse

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 March 2024 and 30 April 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Tara.goolsby.

— Assignment last updated by Kmdavis7 (talk) 21:00, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[peel-1] M. C. Peel; B. L. Finlayson & T. A. McMahon (11 October 2007). "Updated world map of the Köppen-Geiger climate classification" (PDF). Hydrology and Earth System Sciences. 11 (5): 1638–1643. Bibcode:2007HESS...11.1633P. doi:10.5194/hess-11-1633-2007. Retrieved 30 January 2011.

[1]