Talk:Kingston upon Hull

The good article status of this article is being reassessed by the community to determine whether the article meets the good article criteria. Please add comments to the reassessment page.

^{Date: 10:20, 1 October 2024 (UTC)}

This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kingston upon Hull article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4

Kingston upon Hull has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 10, 2008	Good article nominee	Not listed
March 14, 2009	Peer review	Reviewed
May 24, 2009	Good article nominee	Listed

Current status: Good article

Cities

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cities, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of cities, towns and various other settlements on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CitiesWikipedia:WikiProject CitiesTemplate:WikiProject CitiesWikiProject Cities articles

England High‑importance

	England portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

UK geography High‑importance

	United Kingdom portal This article falls within the scope of WikiProject UK geography, a user-group dedicated to building a comprehensive and quality guide to places in the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you wish to participate, share ideas or merely get tips you can join us at the project page where there are resources, to do lists and guidelines on how to write about settlements.UK geographyWikipedia:WikiProject UK geographyTemplate:WikiProject UK geographyUK geography articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Yorkshire Top‑importance

	Yorkshire portal Kingston upon Hull is within the scope of WikiProject Yorkshire, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Yorkshire on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project, see a list of open tasks, and join in discussions on the project's talk page.YorkshireWikipedia:WikiProject YorkshireTemplate:WikiProject YorkshireYorkshire articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hanseatic League (defunct)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hanseatic League, a project which is currently considered to be defunct.Hanseatic LeagueWikipedia:WikiProject Hanseatic LeagueTemplate:WikiProject Hanseatic LeagueHanseatic League articles

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

RM, Kingston upon Hull → Hull, East Riding, Not moved, 7 April 2014, discussion
RM, Kingston upon Hull → Hull, Not moved, 14 July 2014, discussion
RM, Kingston upon Hull → Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, Not moved, closing early per WP:SNOW, 1 March 2023, discussion

Kingston v Hull

One thing that could be included in the article is why "Kingston upon Hull" is normally abbreviated as "Hull" rather than "Kingston" some suggestions here and here (a forum) suggest it was because it was formerly "Wyke on Hull" and renamed in 1293 but that doesn't explain why it isn't shortened generally by its current specific name unlike Newcastle upon Tyne as "Newcastle" and Southend-on-Sea as "Southend". The other suggestion is because as a place name "Kingston" is more ambiguous due to the likes of Kingston upon Thames though still you'd expect the specific name. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:47, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Spiders

@User:Polly Kiersten, we can discuss here. valereee (talk) 22:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Spiders

Sorry to bother you again, but if I find a more substantial citation, regarding Spiders Nightclub, perhaps you could have a look at it again. I don't think I know any other independent nightclub in the UK that is as old as Spiders. That's why I think it deserves recognition on the Kingston-upon-Hull page. There is also a book dedicated to the club, called, "Spiders - Tales from Behind the Web", but that only takes me to an Amazon link, and Goodreads too.

Thanks for your time. Polly Polly Kiersten (talk) 22:15, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kingston versus Hull

Local people rarely ever use the term 'Kingston' in spoken language. It's nearly always 'Hull'. However, in written form, some people still add 'Kingston', as in 'Kingston -Upon-Hull'.

Polly Polly Kiersten (talk) 22:15, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Everyday usage of Wyke on Hull?

At the time of writing this the infobox claimed the city is also known as Wyke on Hull. This claim was added by User:Chocolateediter on 23 April 2022 changing the infobox from stating Hull as the city's other name. I had not heard of Wyke until I read about it in the History section of this article. I am from the West Midlands but even here the city is commonly known simply as "Hull". In response, I ran a Google Trends comparison and found that "Kingston upon Hull" is much more common in searches than "Wyke on Hull". However, both those terms are dwarfed by "Hull City" (the football club) and "Kingston upon Hull" (the city as opposed to the search term) which suggests that "Hull" is much more common in Google searches despite, unfortunately, being an ambiguous term (hence my inclusion of "Hull City" in my comparison) (see Google Trends Kingston upon Hull vs Wyke on Hull and Hull City (past five years)). As I am not an expert in the local area, I am not sure the name "Wyke on Hull" refers to the whole of the modern day city as opposed to just a historical part of it. However, I do feel that "Hull" should be included in the infobox if its usage is so common. Tk420 (talk) 14:57, 22 August 2022 (UTC)-edited[reply]

@Tk420:, The other name field is "For places with a former or more common name like Bombay or Saigon" key words are "former" and "or".

I like this field it shows it is a old place. I wish it was on UK Place infobox, this article has the international infobox since it includes the council area.

Please re-add it if you see fit now that I have explained, you could have came here first before editing however as you didn’t have the reason why it was there. Chocolateediter (talk) 00:23, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe put "Hull / Wyke" as Hull (as a word) would appear too many times at the top.

Wyke is found in business names and probably other stuff (interesting if it is more common then Kingston in some cases) it’s just that Hull is more dominant. Chocolateediter (talk) 00:40, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hull merger

[1] DragonofBatley (talk) 15:58, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What are you referring to? Mcljlm (talk) 16:45, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Removing the merge proposed header, as the consensus appeared to be 'not merge' Kingston Upon Hull into East Riding of Yorkshire, and there's no further discussion after 16 October, when the discussion was archived. (Archived discussion: "Merge Hull into the East Riding of Yorkshire article or create two articles for East Riding of Yorkshire and maintain Hull article")

Side note: DragonofBatley, please don't use external mobile links to link within Wikipedia, article to article, like you did above on 10 Sept. It forces the mobile format onto desktop users. It also interferes with "What links here".--The Navigators (talk) 23:31, 31 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming. Kingston Upon Hull ....

Moving this article was incorrect. Should remain at the city's real name. I propose it be moved back. -Roxy the dog 11:06, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I gave my reasons in the edit summary of the move. --- Tbf69 P • T 11:27, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There has been at least one previous move discussion, so I think an undiscussed move was out of order. It should be moved back and a new discussion opened. DuncanHill (talk) 11:30, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

... aaand now it's been moved back. well done User:SilkTork. - Roxy the dog 11:55, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Previous discussions about the name can be found at Talk:Kingston upon Hull/Archive 1#Naming, Talk:Kingston upon Hull/Archive 4#Proposed move, Talk:Kingston upon Hull/Archive 4#Name 2, Talk:Kingston upon Hull/Archive 4#Name 3, and Talk:Kingston upon Hull/Archive 4#Requested move 14 July 2018. DuncanHill (talk) 12:01, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Tbf69: If you still think the article should be moved, then you should follow the procedure at Wikipedia:PCM. That procedure should always be followed if a) there has been any past debate about the best title for the page, or b) someone could reasonably disagree with the move. DuncanHill (talk) 12:09, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1 March 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved, closing early per WP:SNOW. No such user (talk) 09:24, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kingston upon Hull → Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire – WP:COMNAME. --- Tbf69 P • T 12:39, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose This ridiculous idea, that changes the name of the Article about Kingston Upon Hull, (A town/City in Yorkshire named "Kingston Upon Hull") to Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire a title that isn't the name of the town/City called "Kingston Upon Hull". The monumental idiotic stupidity of this proposal is frankly astonishing. - Roxy the dog 14:20, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
North Korea. --- Tbf69 P • T 15:12, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - "Kingston upon Hull" is used more than "Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire". Tim O'Doherty (talk) 14:48, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wrong. Hull is by far, far, far the most used name for the place. But we add ", East Riding of Yorkshire" because of the need for disambiguation, per WP:ENGPLACE. --- Tbf69 P • T 15:09, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think WP:NATURALDISAMBIGUATION applies here. "Kingston upon Hull" is more natural. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 15:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
North Korea. Surely Democratic People's Republic of Korea and Republic of Korea are naturally disambiguated? No, we use WP:COMNAME. --- Tbf69 P • T 15:14, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your examples aren't natural. "Kingston upon Hull" is. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 15:25, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
See [2] and [3] for evidence that "Kingston" isn't natural. --- Tbf69 P • T 15:40, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So what? I cannot believe that there is a serious request to rename a city because its name is not suitable, according to somebody on the internetz. What a poor joke this is. - Roxy the dog 16:35, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per the OS and Britannica. While I agree the term "Kingston upon Hull" isn't used much in common speech and unlike countries with a "long official name" that may be a description rather than part of the name its quite clear "Kingston upon" is part of the city's name. Also while it may not matter that much in policy I'd also point out as I pointed out at #Kingston v Hull that its odd that its normally called "Hull" rather than "Kingston" but that is the way it is. Also even if "Hull" was the best title for the article the current title in any case serves as natural disambiguation. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Official name of city, used by council on signs entering city. Avoids unnecessary disambiguation. Keith D (talk) 19:04, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose based on the comments above. Gusfriend (talk) 22:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Relevance of alternative name(s) in infobox

The infobox has previously featured the alternative names of "Hull" and "Wyke" in the infobox in an Other name section. This was removed on 7 December 2023 arguing that "Wyke" is primarily historical and "Hull" is mentioned in the body text. However, I believe that the inclusion of "Hull" is relevant to let newcomers to this article know they have found what they are looking for considering that it is the most common name for the city (outside the area as well as locally) although it is agreed that natural disambiguation is desirable over alternatives in the article title. It appears to be standard practice to include other common names in the infobox if a place is commonly known by something besides its official name. I intend to include "Hull" in the infobox but I wrote this entry in case it is challenged. Tk420 (talk) 23:55, 3 March 2024 (UTC)-edited[reply]

Kingston upon Hull

The correct title for Hull or Kingston upon Hull is, The City and County of Kingston upon Hull. it is a city and a county within its own right. This can be verified by the City Archivest and by looking at the Charter. Hull4me (talk) 14:40, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's only the unitary district (which has city status) not the settlement which this is mainly about, in many cases like York/City of York the articles are split but we haven't here probably due to the boundaries being similar. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:57, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Reassessment

Kingston upon Hull

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result pending

I count 28 citation needed tags, some of which span entire paragraphs. True, the article is large, but I still think that's probably too many to ignore. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 10:20, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have made a start on this, you can strike about eight of the CN tags off the list of those needing attention. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 21:08, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@The joy of all things and Keith D: do you two intend to keep working on this article? Thanks (please

mention me on reply) Charlotte (Queen of Hearts • talk) 23:09, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Queen of Hearts: Hopefully will be continuing with this, but time is a bit limited at the moment and will be without internet connection for 12 days at end of month. Keith D (talk) 10:00, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Queen of Hearts: Aye, 'appen tha knows! (translation: "Yes I do intend to carry on".) Sorry, will get round to it soon. Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 10:30, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Keith D and The joy of all things: ?? 750 h+ 06:06, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

750h+ ?? I have done as much as I can, Keith D is away. The joy of all things (talk) 13:36, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Theleekycauldron: what are your thoughts? 750 h+ 13:42, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also there are still 3 cn tags. 750 h+ 13:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

looks like a number of the sources added were to tourism sites? either that or they were in there already. hrm. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 10:39, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have commented out a couple of bits I cannot find references for, also dead links and added a few to cover other parts requiring references. I think that covers all of the tags. The part about the Energy Plant needs an operational date and ref, I put in some update to say it would be operational by end 2019. Keith D (talk) 13:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]