Talk:Jai Valley

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Review 23 June 2020

Review

Why is there an article on this place?

Is there any reason to think this place is notable? If there is, it belongs in the lede.

There are lots of problems with the English. For example

Jai valley (/ʒæɪ ˈvæli/) is evergreen valley[1]

The source describes it as "the everlasting green valley", and there seem to be quite a few promotional websites that call it that. So use the wording the sources use, and put it in inverted commas (but without capital letters - you do not have evidence that "the everlasting green valley" is a proper name). Best to have 3 sources for this quotation.
"evergreen valley" has a different meaning than "the everlasting green valley".

located on the North, 32 kilometres (20 mi) from Bhaderwah town.

located 20 miles (32 km) north of Bhaderwah.
Need to specify whether this is by road, or as the crow flies.

It have the group red meadows[2] in summers and it is covered with snow in winters.

The source says "The gushing water of streams, red meadows of Jai valley, snow-clad mountains of Padri and hills of Khellani top were the main attraction for the tourists."

It does not make sense

How can a place be an everlasting green valley that has red meadows? And if the meadows are covered in snow in winter, the valley is not an everlasting green valley.

Is Jai valley its name?

Proper names are capitalised - e.g. "Death Valley", "Inyo County, California", "Safoora Zargar". -- Toddy1 (talk) 19:15, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

It is good practice to name the authors of newspaper articles (where known), and to put the name of the newspaper (with a wikilink if there is an article). Always be careful to get newspaper/news source names right - since there may be other publications with a similar name.

For example, Gopal Sharma is a journalist at the Daily Excelsior https://in.linkedin.com/in/gopal-sharma-b2600a167 He has a right to be listed as the author of Gandoh-Jai-Bhaderwah Road incomplete even after 17 yrs, project jumps several deadlines

@Toddy1: Okay, wait let me fix it. Thank you Sir/Madam.— The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 04:42, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Toddy1: Check, I am fixed the things which you recommended. If anything remaining, kindly reply here. And if it is now Okay for AFC then please do it. Waiting for response.— The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 08:17, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is much better. Well done. It still needs more work.

What is remarkable about meadows being green in summer? The article on Gordon Brown mentions that he is blind in one eye, because most people are not.

Details given for the citations

Your forgot to wikilink the name of the work State Times
OK
The article name is "Jai Valley", the publisher is "District Administration Doda", and the date is 2 June 2020
The work is "Jkreport" - you can see this at the bottom of the page.
OK
The work is "Daily Excelsior"
OK. I would avoid a piped link for the work, so Outlook (Indian magazine) is better than Outlook. The disambiguator is there for a reason. This is because sometimes what gets used by readers is a printed or pdf version of the page.

You need to re-read it and put in missing words like "the".

If you look at the page on Donetsk, there is a map in the infobox, which has user settings, so that people from far away places can locate Donetsk: in the oblast, in the country, and in the continent. (A different solution is shown at Newton, Mississippi.) Maybe something like that exists for places in India or J&K - see Doda district.

The "tehsil" is not understood by many people from far away places. A wikilink would help. I am not sure that the approximate translation given in the article on tehsil would help - maybe it could be placed in brackets after "tehsil" - I am not sure.-- Toddy1 (talk) 10:10, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Toddy1: I have updated all your suggestions except that location which you gave example of Donetsk . I am little confuse there. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 11:13, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You forgot citation 6.

The user needs to be able to locate Jai Valley. So you need a map in the infobox.-- Toddy1 (talk) 11:44, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm okay. Here is Jai Ghati Jammu and Kashmir 182221 https:// maps. app. goo. gl/ 8v4J6Leydwjyxyzn8 (remove spaces) on Google Maps, this might be helpful in location. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 11:57, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Toddy1— The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 12:01, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What I did to find out how to do a map, was what I suggested you did. I looked at other articles and saw how they did it. Then I tried copying what they did into this article. I used page preview to see how it looked. I then change the map from the one used for Donetsk to to names I guessed. This worked for India, but not J&K. I saved, and looked at other map images. This did not help, but it did tell me that the article on Srinagar used one of the map images I was looking at, so I looked at the article on Srinagar and tried copying the map = instruction into this article, and it worked well.

What you need to do is to check that your coordinates are right and that Jai Valley is in the right place.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:30, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rivers

There is a small river that runs next to the Doda Bhaderwah Highway. This river runs into the River Chenab, and is shown by Google Maps to be the River Neru. Is Jai Vally, the valley that has the River Neru in it? Or is is a valley at right angles to the River Neru, perhaps with a stream that runs into the River Neru?-- Toddy1 (talk) 17:14, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Toddy1: Neru River is far from Jai valley. Maybe there would be some rivulet which joins Jai to Neru. Let me confirm it. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 17:47, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are three possibilities:

The lat long coordinates you have for Jai Valley are wrong.
Your statement that the River Neru is far from Jai Valley is wrong.
Google Maps has a different river labelled Neru than the one you are thinking of.

[1]

-- Toddy1 (talk) 18:01, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Toddy1: Neru river flows between the Bhaderwah town and it is 32Km far from Jai Valley. There are only one rivulet in Jai valley as mentioned in article, which flows towards Thathri (New Thathri on Google Maps) which is on north of Jai valley.— The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 18:05, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My coordinates are wrong — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 18:09, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wait let me fix them. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 18:09, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

By the way the lat long coordinates used in the article on Bhaderwah town are also wrong.-- Toddy1 (talk) 18:11, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

With some stuff I was doing in March for work, I learned that when you use internet tools to get lat long coordinates, you need to put the coordinates into a tool and compare that with the location you wanted. Apparently some internet tools for giving you lat long coordinates make rounding errors.-- Toddy1 (talk) 18:14, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Haha. Do you know? The places belongs to Chenab Valley's Doda district, Kishtwar and Ramban districts are mostly inaccurate on Google maps. Butt main towns are somehow okay. But Thathri is listed in a place which is actually 40Kms far from actual Thathri town. And the actual Thathri town is named as New Thathri on Google Maps. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 18:17, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Coming to the point coordinates.

This is the actual coordinates of Jai Ghati (Jai Valley) 33.027984,75.772830 . — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 18:22, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That is much better. It answers the question I could not ask because of an edit conflict.-- Toddy1 (talk) 18:28, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Toddy1 Well, I will fix the coordinates of all the places which I know, like Bhaderwah etc.

Does the river run from south to north like the River Neru?-- Toddy1 (talk) 18:53, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Neru river flows south to northwest somewhat. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 19:01, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But what about the river in Jai Valley? And please can this go in the article supported by citations.-- Toddy1 (talk) 21:43, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Toddy1: There is no river, that is just a rivulet, but it is famous there for fish trout. Rivulet is already cited in first paragraph. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 04:03, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But which way does it flow?-- Toddy1 (talk) 05:53, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am not so aware about how to see directions on maps.

On Google maps Jai Ghati rivulet flows towards New Thathri — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 06:01, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It flows towards northeast. New Thathri is at north of Jai. The rivulet flows towards north and little bit east in direction but finally joins another rivulet of Thathri which later flows to river Chenab. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 06:05, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any sources you can cite for this?-- Toddy1 (talk) 06:47, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In the first paragraph on article

Jai have about 9 kilometres (5.6 miles) long meadows, bisected by a rivulet known as Jai Nallah which runs towards the Thathri's rivulet known as Kalgoni Nallah.^[1]

Added with citation. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 08:13, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Toddy1 This shows the Jai Nallah moves towards Kalgoni Nallah in Thathri. And Thathri is located on north of the Jai (according to Google Maps source). While Jai Nallah can be seen flowing towards North then Northeast where it joins Kalgoni Nallah. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 08:16, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

^ "Jai Valley". District Administration Doda. 2 Jun 2020. Retrieved 23 Jun 2020.

Other improvements

Now is there anything in this draft to improve? — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 18:31, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. If you look at the sources you cited they have lots interesting useful information that should go in the article.

The big question remains. Why is this place notable?-- Toddy1 (talk) 18:49, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notability is defined in Tribune reference, as last years huge number tourist visited there than ever. As it is now one if the most visiting tourist place in Chenab Valley especially Bhaderwah. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 19:03, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I know there is much more things to add here. But I think if this article go to mainspace, many other contributors like to contribute it also. I think being a major editor of an article can charge COI.😋 — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 19:05, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mudhouses

What are "Mudhouses"? Why is the word capitalised suggesting that it is a proper noun (e.g. a place name)?

Actually, I wasn't getting specific term for them. These houses are made up of wood on the wall and roof and mud on the ground and interior side of the walls. It is in category of temporary house. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 18:40, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Properties of Shack and Hut both. What we call it? 🤔 — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 18:45, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Find at least one source for what a "mudhouse" is, and then add the explanation in brackets after the word. And decapitalise.-- Toddy1 (talk) 18:50, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Are they used by livestock? or by people? or both?-- Toddy1 (talk) 18:51, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Both — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 19:06, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But only in summers. Because in winters there remains snow, and it no network area. People gets problem due to that also. I have visited there two times in my life. I love the Igloos there. But I went for 2 hours both the times. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 19:09, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You need to add citations for the information on mudhouses you added to the article.-- Toddy1 (talk) 21:37, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it may take time to find it from reliable. But there are some blogs which have this. Can I cite them? — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 04:10, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Like this link — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 04:32, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry - no. User generated sites sometimes contain useful information. But they are not reliable sources. Wordpress is a user generated site.

Another user tried to use hisamullahbeg.blogspot on another J&K page. It contains useful information - but it is not a reliable source. My personal opinion is that it is OK to list a few such pages under a "Further reading" heading.-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:22, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. Putting these wordpress or blogger site in Further reading. But Is it allowed there to add these links. I mean it may look like promotion?

Is containing useful information allows us to add these links in further reading section. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 11:00, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you post the same link in the "further reading section" of 4 articles, that is promotion.

If you post a relevant link in the "further reading section" of 1 article, that is not promotion.-- Toddy1 (talk) 11:41, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. Thanks. Now you are going to review this one?. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 17:55, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright of the photo

The copyright status of File:Jai valley.jpg and File:Jai_Valley.jpg need resolving.-- Toddy1 (talk) 18:38, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Don't worry about that. I have many pics taken by that Photographer, whom I personally know. Crediting him and his organization is Okay for him. He don't need anything more. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 18:43, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It would help a lot if the photographer (not you) uploaded some photos that had not been published before on to either Wikipedia or to Commons. Copyright on Commons has to be set up so that anyone can use them. If the photographer uploaded photos on Wikipedia, he/she could (if he/she wanted) set them up for fair use - i.e. that they could be used for articles, but not for other purposes.-- Toddy1 (talk) 21:41, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As I already said, this means these pics are allowed for fair use. Like was uploaded 2017 on commons, which I got yesterday. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 04:08, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Demographics

A section labelled "Demographics" is expected to contain data on the number of people who live there. The type of information required is shown at Donetsk#Demographics. So either provide some cited demographic information, or change the section heading.-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:54, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm well. Let me read the Government Census handbook. If there is any data. I will update. If not. Then I will change. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 11:01, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't found any data on Census Handbook. i found some details related to Tourism section. So I added with its reference. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 11:17, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Toddy1: Now I think when comes to mainspace then other editors may improve this too. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 11:18, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalisation

@The Ultimate: I had thought that proper nouns and proper names were capitalised, for example: Death Valley and Great Rift Valley. Am I mistaken?-- Toddy1 (talk) 10:34, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am also agree to Toddy1 . Proper name should be capitalized. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 11:20, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Toddy1, what you're saying is true. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Sorry for the move which I did because of the misperception that the word valley is seperated from Jai, the actual place. This is a single name and hence should remain as Jai Valley like this one: Kashmir Valley. Reverting my actions. — The Ultimate ^{Let's Talk} 17:28, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks.-- Toddy1 (talk) 17:31, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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[nic-1] "Jai Valley". District Administration Doda. 2 Jun 2020. Retrieved 23 Jun 2020.

[1]