Talk:FIFA 20

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This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

NOTE: I am proposing this edit for FleishmanHillard on behalf of EA Sports, publisher of FIFA 20. I am a paid editor and aware of COI guidelines.

Genre (Infobox)

Within the infobox, the game is currently classified under both the “Sports” and “Online gambling” genres. However, there has not been a clear legal consensus established that loot boxes used in Ultimate Team constitute online gambling. ^[2] The definition varies worldwide, with, for example, the UK’s Gambling Commission stating that loot boxes in FIFA 20 do not fall under their definition of online gambling given current legislation.^[3]

Also, the ESRB and PEGI have specific ratings for games that contain gambling (Adults Only 18+^[4] and PEGI 12, 16 or 18,^[5] respectively), but FIFA 20 has been rated E for Everyone by ESRB^[6] and PEGI-3 by PEGI.^[7]

With the lack of consensus in the definition and given the game’s rating from both boards, we propose removing “Online gambling” as a genre from the article’s infobox. Thanks for your time and consideration. Jon Gray (talk) 01:23, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of loot box tactics used within FIFA (and other sports games) and their legal status, this does not make "Online Gambling" a valid genre for the game. Employing certain mechanics does not constitute a genre. I have removed this for now, but am open to discussion of the topic.

To clarify, I believe there could be a section added to this article describing this specific game and its relation to loot box/gambling controversy. It doesn't belong as a genre though.SkippyKR (talk) 22:22, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Cite error: The named reference undefined was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ "The Legality of Loot Boxes: A Primer". The National Law Review. December 1, 2020. Retrieved December 11, 2020. There is a great debate about whether loot boxes constitute gambling. The gambling laws vary by country, and in the United States, by state as well. In the US, few if any laws specifically address gambling based on virtual items… There is no consistent approach internationally either, although many EU member states have released position papers within the last few years.
^ "Fifa packs and loot boxes 'not gambling' in UK". BBC News. July 22, 2019. Retrieved December 11, 2020. The UK gambling watchdog has told MPs that it does not currently oversee the purchase of in-game content like Fifa player packs and video game loot boxes. This is because there is no official way to monetise what is inside them. A prize has to be either money or have monetary value in order for it to fall under gambling legislation.
^ "Ratings Categories". ESRB Ratings Guide. ESRB. Retrieved December 11, 2020. Adults Only 18+. Content suitable only for adults ages 18 and up. May include prolonged scenes of intense violence, graphic sexual content and/or gambling with real currency.
^ "TWO LEVELS OF INFORMATION AS A GUIDE : THE PEGI AGE LABELS". PEGI Ratings Guide. PEGI. Retrieved December 11, 2020. Gambling as it is normally carried out in real life in casinos or gambling halls can also be present.
^ "FIFA 20 Rating Summary". ESRB FIFA 20 Rating Summary. ESRB. Retrieved December 11, 2020.
^ "PEGI Search results". PEGI Ratings Guide. PEGI. Retrieved December 11, 2020. This game has received a PEGI 3. Suitable for all ages.

Not done for now More than just deductions from primary sources (the rating of the game directly from the rating companies is indeed a primary source) would be needed. Is there any coverage of this in respectable secondary sources? The fact that the game has also led to fines by regulators in some other countries with stricter laws is not particularly helpful. What the British gambling commission said is not that loot boxes are not gambling, rather that they do not currently oversee such things because of some technicality/loophole in current gambling legislation. A simple search for "loot boxes gambling" reveals plenty of material saying that loot boxes are indeed (or might lead to the same problematic behaviours as...) gambling. So, in summary, what we have is sources saying that 1) FIFA has been found in breach of gambling laws in some places because of loot boxes. To remove the label, what we would need (beyond attempts at corporate whitewashing) are 2) sources which directly contradict that loot boxes are gambling or that loot boxes in the context of FIFA are gambling. I have not found such sources, and the fact that EA has been fined for breaching gambling laws makes this fact certainly notable enough to be included in the infobox. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 17:39, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[undefined-1] Cite error: The named reference undefined was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[2] "The Legality of Loot Boxes: A Primer". The National Law Review. December 1, 2020. Retrieved December 11, 2020. There is a great debate about whether loot boxes constitute gambling. The gambling laws vary by country, and in the United States, by state as well. In the US, few if any laws specifically address gambling based on virtual items… There is no consistent approach internationally either, although many EU member states have released position papers within the last few years.

[3] "Fifa packs and loot boxes 'not gambling' in UK". BBC News. July 22, 2019. Retrieved December 11, 2020. The UK gambling watchdog has told MPs that it does not currently oversee the purchase of in-game content like Fifa player packs and video game loot boxes. This is because there is no official way to monetise what is inside them. A prize has to be either money or have monetary value in order for it to fall under gambling legislation.

[4] "Ratings Categories". ESRB Ratings Guide. ESRB. Retrieved December 11, 2020. Adults Only 18+. Content suitable only for adults ages 18 and up. May include prolonged scenes of intense violence, graphic sexual content and/or gambling with real currency.

[5] "TWO LEVELS OF INFORMATION AS A GUIDE : THE PEGI AGE LABELS". PEGI Ratings Guide. PEGI. Retrieved December 11, 2020. Gambling as it is normally carried out in real life in casinos or gambling halls can also be present.

[6] "FIFA 20 Rating Summary". ESRB FIFA 20 Rating Summary. ESRB. Retrieved December 11, 2020.

[7] "PEGI Search results". PEGI Ratings Guide. PEGI. Retrieved December 11, 2020. This game has received a PEGI 3. Suitable for all ages.

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