Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Archive 3

This is an archive of past discussions about Wikipedia:WikiProject China. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

→

Archive 10

Gwoyeu Romatzyh (information)

For your information, Gwoyeu Romatzyh has been a FAC since 26 March. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

There's currently a discussion about the use of colour-coding to highlight the tones in GR. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 09:18, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Update: promoted FA on 3 April. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Internet brigades

Some help is needed in making a potential article over here - about the alleged flooding of the internet with information used by a few governments (currently the Russians and the Chinese have been alleged of doing this). China's role is based on this article by Guardian Unlimited. The original article (which was very problematic and was deleted) was purely based on the FSB allegations, and an attempt is being made to make the future potential article more international. It is currently up for deletion review over here, where there is a tie of votes (9 to 9) between those who endorse its deletion and those who want it overturned and relisted.

This is a very controversial topic, but in my view there seem to be enough notable sources to make a decent article out of it, so I hope that someone here may be able to help. Esn 01:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

historical timeline

The sequence of Chinese History pages need a bit of organizing. Take a look at one of the pages from the equivalent Japanese History pages: Kemmu restoration.

each page has a bar on the right with the entire sequence of articles, the dynasties in chronological order
each page also has a bar at the base of the article with "previous" and "next" links

I'll add the History bar to any articles I see missing- but how does one make the bottom bar? brain 19:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

The problem with that is some dynasties are simultaneous. I.e. they existed during the same time period. More prominently, the ROC and PRC both technically exist today. Thus a model based on the History of Japan model is rather impractical. Colipon+(T) 23:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

As Colipon suggested, the strict succession model employed in the Jp history articles is unsuitable because it implies clean-cut historical succession where it did not exist. This is also a problem with our current side bar. I suggest doing away with that too, and building a footer timeline using m:EasyTimeline.--Jiang 23:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I see- so basically the history sidebar needs to be re-engineered to reflect the simultaneous dynasties. I also noticed that at least three articles linked from the History bar #1 do not have the History bar themselves and #2 already have content on their right side, making addition of the History bar impractical.
Since I'm pretty new on this project I'm not really ready to do the new bar/timeline footer myself. Is there a more public place we can post the need for this? brain 04:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I haven't figured out how to use EasyTimeline yet so any help is needed.

We should add Template:Infobox Former Country to all the dynasty articles. There is a built in function in that template to show succession. Song Dynasty, for example, has the sidebar, but it is pushed down because of the infobox.

I can't think of anyplace else to post this, other than WP:VP--Jiang 21:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Beijing opera peer review

I have initiated a peer review for the article Beijing opera which can be found at Wikipedia:Peer review/Beijing opera/archive1. I invite you to comment.--Danaman5 05:03, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

List for ROC and PRC designations

Hi could I just get the thoughts of the people here about the proposed list for ROC and PRC naming desginations? (Scroll up) Colipon+(T) 04:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Guanmao vs. Chinese Crested Dog

Does anybody know if these are the same type of dog? - Peregrine Fisher 15:57, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes they are. Thanks for notifying, I have redirected Guanmao to the latter. AQu01rius (User  Talk) 17:07, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Naming conventions, revert warring, and User:Privacy

In the discussion of naming conventions above, people were concerned that trying to impose one would lead to revert-warring, and about half of the votes in the straw poll were for leaving things alone. Now Privacy (talk · contribs) is trying to implement sweeping changes to article categories imposing a naming convention of his own. As I have already stated, there is no consensus on a naming convention and that is what my proposal was intended to fix. So here we have proof that not having a naming convention is not going to prevent revert wars, as that is exactly what Privacy does. --Ideogram 20:12, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Why are you saying "..we have proof that not having a naming convention.."? There is a current set of naming conventions. Just that you don't agree with it. My edits are based on the current set of naming conventions and DRV and CFD. - Privacy 20:16, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

How many times do I have to explain this to you? What is written there is clearly labeled disputed. I am not the only one reverting your edits; practically every category change you make gets reverted. Don't you think something is wrong here? --Ideogram 20:20, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

And there is no active discussion for the "disputes". Aren't you told? (see User talk:Privacy#Discuss please) You know how many guys are there keep reverting? Something wrong too? - Privacy 20:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I've been trying to have a discussion but no one is discussing. And there are more of us reverting than you. So until you get a consensus for your changes you won't accomplish anything. --Ideogram 20:27, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

You voted for the option to "leave everything alone". If you really want to fix all the naming exceptions, the honest thing to do would be to propose your own naming convention (you can paraphrase what is already there, since you seem to support it) and have people vote on implementing it. --Ideogram 20:27, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I voted to keep the current set of naming conventions, and to decide each article or category case by case based on the current set of naming conventions. I agree with the current set of naming conventions, and therefore I don't know why I have propose my own one. - Privacy 20:32, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Can you read? The proposal says "no mass renaming of articles." That is what Hong proposed and what you are doing is clearly not what she had in mind. --Ideogram 20:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

The lack of active discussion is part of the problem, not "cover" for continuing to engage in disputed behaviour. If people continue to try to conform the categories to the different schemes in their various heads without resolving the issue, this is going to end up back at WP:ANI and WP:RFAR. Alai 18:57, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Bilateral relations discussion

I would like to invite you all to participate in a discussion at this thread regarding bilateral relations between two countries. All articles related to foreign relations between countries are now under the scope of WikiProject Foreign relations, a newly created project. We hope that the discussion will result in a more clean and organized way of explaining such relationships. Thank you. Ed ^{¿Cómo estás?} 18:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Red Cliffs needs references

The Battle of Red Cliffs article has no references at all, which is a problem given its debate about troop numbers and casualties, etc. As an outside observer, I have a hard time accepting anything in the article, which is sad because an article about such a significant historical event really should be better. -- Exitmoose 00:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Beijing opera FAC

The article Beijing opera is now listed at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Beijing opera. I welcome your thoughts and suggestions.--Danaman5 18:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

The article looks good. Good job. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 19:12, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

new article, new user

There is a new article Food Safety in the People's Republic of China created by a new user User:Lothringen I hope that members of this project can improve the article and welcome the new user into the community. Jon513 15:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

And the fact that this article is planted solely in a certain category is a tell-tale sign of sockpuppetry by banned user User:Instantnood.--Huaiwei 16:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't he have named it Food Safety in Mainland China? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

After reviewing the contribution of User:Instantnood I think it is very unlikely for User:Lothringen to be a sockpuppet. User:Lothringen seem to only editwar; I cannot find a single contribution of his that adds any content. He wrote a few well sourced (albeit not using WP:footnotes) paragraphs) that seem to me to be NPOV (of course I am unfamiliar with China issue and I doubt I could tell if it was). In any even, we have to give any new user the benefit of the doubt. I would be a shame to chase away a good editor because he put an article in a controversial category. In fact, he didn't put it into any category until a robot labeled it as uncategorized! Jon513 19:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Portal:China

Portal:China is now re-submitted as a featured portal candidate. Visit the page and comment if you want. AQu01rius (User  Talk) 18:41, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Can someone PLEASE comment? AQu01rius (User  Talk) 06:56, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I've had a lot going on in real life the last couple days. I'll comment later today.--Danaman5 14:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

My comment was toward some other users. We need a automatic bot to develop a newsletter system to get all participants of this China project connected. AQu01rius (User  Talk) 17:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Anyone here? Please comment... I rather see bunch of opposes than no comment from the editors here. Argh! (AQu01rius  Talk) 06:27, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Global search and replace and edit warring by User:TingMing

Once again we have an example of how not having a naming convention does not prevent edit-warring.

TingMing (talk · contribs) is enforcing his own naming convention and edit-warring across dozens of Taiwan-related articles. He is not interested in discussing, he only reverts to his preferred version. --Ideogram 21:01, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

vague question, sorry

Hey do you have any idea what "Gudai Zhanzheng Yibailie" might mean, in the context of a book reference as follows: Wuhan Forces Headquarters Editing Division for the Research of Military Materials, Zhongguo, Gudai Zhanzheng Yibailie (Wuhan: Hubei Province People's Publishing House, 1979). Sorry, no tones & no Chinese chars. Thanks! Ling.Nut 01:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmmmmmm It looks like it might be the "100 Ancient Chinese Military Records"...ish. I could be wrong. Maowang 01:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I found it — thanks! Ling.Nut 02:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

New Task Force for Workshop Chinese History

Hello everyone, Pericles here from WP Chinese History; I have a suggestion for a new task force alongside the military history task force found in the Chinese History Workshop.

I propose we initiate a new History of Science and Technology task force in the History workshop of WP China. I have noticed an enormous lacking in almost all articles on the subject here at wikipedia.org. Due to my edits, articles such as Zhang Heng, Ma Jun, Su Song, and Shen Kuo look much, much better than they did before (two of them were a month ago merely stubs with one or two sentences). I have also created new articles, such as Technology of Song Dynasty. However, I feel that help from others interested in the history of Chinese science and technology would be invaluable.

For example, it is going to be exhaustive editing and rewriting this mess: Chinese astronomy. Like Joseph Conrad's character Marlow sailing into the Heart of Darkness, I need some [wiki] buddies with me armed with some Winchester rifles (i.e. scholarly sources, lol) in order to make it through.

What does everyone think?

--PericlesofAthens 22:20, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Judging from the silence on this, I'm guessing no one really gives a **** about Chinese science and technology. Oh well, it would have made a great task force.--PericlesofAthens 08:11, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Ask on Talk:History of science and technology in China. In particular Grimhelm (talk · contribs) was instrumental in bringing that article to GA. You could also help add depth to that article, maybe bring it to FA. --Wang C-H 18:02, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, that's definitely going on my to-do list. Thanks for responding Wang.--PericlesofAthens 03:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Dayuan featured article review

Dayuan has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --Nydas^(Talk) 10:35, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Chengguan and Cui Yingjie

These articles could use some editing and additional sources. Cui Yingjie was prod'd recently. I removed the prod and improved the article. However I cannot read much Chinese, and can't do all the searching/sourcing I would like to do. Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks, Fang Aili ^talk 15:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I found a few articles about Cui Yingjie — but it's final exams week now and I should be studying ;-) I'll try to pitch in about a week or so from now.. --~~ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ling.Nut (talk • contribs) 15:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 FAR

Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. LuciferMorgan 14:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Xiangqi FAR

Xiangqi has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. LuciferMorgan 15:06, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Shen Kuo FAC

I have recently nominated Shen Kuo (1031-1095 AD) for Featured Article status. As most of you might know, Shen Kuo is one of the most important figures of Chinese history, and one of the most important scientists and writers of scientific literature in history. If you would like to review and provide comment/objection/support, then visit the talk page at Talk:Shen Kuo or specifically it's FA talk page here. Thanks! --PericlesofAthens 08:20, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Quality ratings and "A"

Can we have some discussion as to what and whether an 'A' rating should be used for in this project (and WikiProject Taiwan)? See Talk:Taiwanese aborigines. The relationship between 'A' and 'GA' ratings is not well defined, since GA uses an external process with a different population of reviewers and A is a WikiProject internal rating. Many people have said putting 'A' and 'GA' on the same scale is comparing apples and oranges. Different WikiProjects handle this in different ways; WikiProject Military History ignores GA and requires a project-wide peer review for A. Other, smaller WikiProjects that don't have a peer review process let GA and FA be assigned externally and don't use 'A'. This was my impression of how things worked here so far, but it's fine with me if we use a different process, as long as we agree and it is consistent. --Calde 04:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't use A when I rank articles, because I find it uncomfortable to declare that an article is basically ready for FA without any kind of external process. I'd be fine with setting up an internal review process if others want to.--Danaman5 13:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Take your POV probs elsewhere, sport. The ratings exist. Therefore they are intended to be used. End Of Story. Ling.Nut 22:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I find this response to be a little hostile. It is in fact true that other Wikiprojects don't use the A rating much, and I never use it, so it seems like this issue is worth discussing. We can't just say "End Of Story" and move on.--Danaman5 01:43, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

(undent) But if people want to use it, they can and should. That's the "End of Story." If you don't to use it, then you don't have to, and shouldn't. End of Story. It's just that simple. Ling.Nut 02:30, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you understand the concept of a "standard rating system". --Calde 20:04, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

User:Danaman5

It really doesn't seem to matter. Just let people use it if they want.

Any hostility is being aimed at User:Calde, who is suspected of being a "dirty sock" and not editing in good faith, which degrades our entire community. As you can see, this user's only edits appear between an 8 hour window on the evening of May 2 to after midnight May 3 Eastern Time or in the afternoon and evening Pacific time USA. Unfortunately Calde is trying to manipulate the community to a POV and whether you agree or not, it is not how cooperation or change should be forged. As a major contributor to Taiwanese Aborigines I welcome members from the WikiProject China to contribute their knowledge and expertise and offer any advise to make this a better page. Although I do not always agree, anything can be discussed rationally, without resorting to "tricks". I would like to assume everyone is working in good faith and NPOV, but unfortunately, not everyone is upfront with their motives and this casts a cloud of suspicion over innocent contributors. I think this is regrettable and I hope both WikiTaiwan and WikiChina communities can cooperate in discouraging our members from this type of non-constructive behavior. I also think User:Calde should be ignored. Thanks!Maowang 03:21, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

This is the reason for the hostility. These users will say anything to discredit me and it is not possible for me to have a rational conversation with them.

These users wish to attack my comments by attacking me ad hominem. I am content to let the other members of WPCHINA decide. In particular, I hope that AQu01rius (talk · contribs) who has done a great deal of work rating articles will weigh in. --Calde 20:04, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Anything GA and higher requires a formal review. ludahai 魯大海 14:52, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

That would be a good rule, but we don't have enough reviewers to provide formal reviews for the 'A' rating. What can we do about that? --Ideogram 14:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean that WOULD be a good rule. That IS the rule. ludahai 魯大海 01:23, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

There appears to be some disagreement on whether an 'A' rating requires a formal review, see the comments above by Ling.Nut (talk · contribs). And we are unable to provide project-wide formal reviews if it does. My personal preference is to not use 'A' ratings in this project at all. --Ideogram 02:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

(undent) actually the rule for wikipedia is, only GA and FA *require* an external rating process... I do agree that having a project-internal system for assigning "A" rating is preferable to having none.. but if no such rating exists, there is no rule against just assigning A rating.. Ling.Nut 02:20, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

So does an article have to pass GA to be rated 'A'? What is the difference between a GA article and an 'A' article? --Ideogram 02:52, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

...to walk the path to enlightenment, you must first read this :-) Ling.Nut 03:13, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I hate that table. It states that 'A' class articles do not necessarily have to pass GA, violating the normal expectation that it is a linear scale. It also says 'A' class "could be considered for FA" which implies that every 'A' class should be nominated for FA; but then if they succeed they are FA, and if they fail they are not 'A' class. The whole FA/A/GA sequence was the result of a messy compromise, which is why some projects like WP:MILHIST have modified it. --Ideogram 04:51, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I stand corrected on "A" class. We follow a different policy in WikiProject Bio. ludahai 魯大海 15:00, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I set up a A-Class Review department for WP:TWGOVT, maybe we can set up a department for each WikiProject.--Jerry 15:04, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

(outdent) How many reviewers do we have? If we don't have enough, review requests will just sit there. --Ideogram 17:14, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Forbidden City

Hey guys, I've been working on Forbidden City for a while. I'd love for all of you to take a look and comment on the article, with a view towards a GA nomination eventually. Any suggestions, criticism, and of course editing would be great! --Sumple (Talk) 07:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

{{WikiProject China}} template

Why do you insist on slapping the {{WPCHINA}} template at the top of Talk pages willy-nilly?
I'll be blunt: it's really obnoxious.
JFD 17:30, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Articles related to China usually go under Wikipedia:WikiProject China. Is there any rationale for not including articles in WikiProject China or for including articles in another WikiProject? Please discuss this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China before removing the template. Thank you. LionheartX

The use of these national templates—even their placement, i.e. the order in which they appear on Talk pages—has escalated into WP:BATTLE before, and indiscriminately slapping national templates on Talk pages—at the very top, no less—can only worsen things where there is already tension. JFD 17:59, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia don't usually do things just to avoid controversy. "China" refers to the civilization China, with no political implications. Articles such as tea, gunpowder, ginseng, ect. is of great concern to China. In addition, see Talk:Foreign influence on Chinese martial arts and other talk pages where there are several "national templates" on the talk pages. LionheartX

Honestly, I use a script to add and assess articles, so the order in which the WP:CHINA tag appears on the talk page is somewhat random. I also second LionheartX's comments about the scope of our project. This project is about the Chinese civilization, not any one particular modern country or government.--Danaman5 18:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Then might I suggest being judicious in this template's application when there is the possibility of escalating WP:BATTLE? JFD 19:20, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

FAC voting

It looks bad for other members of WPCHINA/WPTAIWAN to support an article belonging to the project. I personally never support an article belonging to a project I am active in, I only speak up if I have an objection. For example, I felt the recent Beijing opera was a worthy FAC but let more objective people make the decision. --Calde 06:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I hope I wasn't out of line by mentioning Beijing opera here. Honestly, I was feeling like the FAC wasn't getting enough attention, so I was just trying to drum up comments.--Danaman5 06:44, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

The decision is not made by majority voting anyway. One reasonable objection trumps 100 "Support, great article" votes. It is useful to advertise FACs on WikiProject pages so other project members can help fix things that others have objected to. Kusma (talk) 06:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

No, of course FAC is not a vote (which many people fail to understand). I'm not objecting to mentioning a FAC to get help and feedback. What is dubious is members of the WikiProject showing up at FAC to say "support" and little more. I do believe this practice is deprecated somewhere, but I can't be bothered to look it up now. --Calde 17:54, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

A pure vote makes the voter look silly, but shouldn't have a large effect on the decision. Kusma (talk) 18:28, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not worried about these actions affecting the decision. I'm worried about WPCHINA/WPTAIWAN looking silly. --Calde 18:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Lion dance

I would like to translate the Lion dance article for German-language WP but it is tagged "Expand" and "Cleanup" and rated "Start-Class" while "Important". Since my username relates to something completely different, I only know what I can read in Wikipedia about it ;-) Could someone help me by reviewing the article so that I can have it exported to de:WP and translate it? Thanks. --Liondancer 04:19, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Translate

Can someone please translate the following titles into Chinese for me? (Ghostexorcist 10:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC))

**Title of each volume**
#	Chinese	pages	#	Chinese	pages
1	首战传捷报	126	6	联姻邈川关	110
2	大破石佛寺	110	7	受困桃源山	102
3	孤胆闯太湖	126	8	全歼赵都都	110
4	奇取同盟录	134	9	除暴芒山道	126
5	剿杀熊双飞	118	10	名师出高徒	110

Forbidden city

I wikified this article, removing duplicate links, adding comments, and various small fixes. My changes were reverted by an editor who apparently does not understand the Wikipedia Manual of Style. Now he is ignoring my request for discussion. Could someone please examine my changes and either put them back or explain to me why they should not be allowed? --Ideogram 14:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The comments were perhaps not that great in the article text. I agree with you that the article is overlinked, and have wikified it a little by removing links. Kusma (talk) 15:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Are there any other WP:MOS problems other than the overlinking? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:09, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Date linking, fixed image sizes. Really the edits speak for themselves, if someone would just take the time to look at them. --Ideogram 15:20, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I think your edits were very good. The disparaging comments hidden within the text undoubtably exacerabated any negative reaction you might have received. Explanations for edits typically are made in the edit summary line or on the talk page for the article. It's not good form to put that kind of thing in the text, and it's not good form to disparage the previous version. Could you make these changes over the course of several edits and forego the hidden text comments, thus making it easier for the other editor to accept and assimilate your changes? -Jmh123 18:15, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I know, I tend to be sarcastic. I placed the comments in the text this time because I thought Sumple was actively editing it, but he seems to have left. If anyone else shows an interest in improving the article I can discuss the comments with them on the talk page, but otherwise I think I'm done with it. --Ideogram 18:29, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Location of Xanadu

The Xanadu article gives as location "northeast of Lanqui/Zhenglan Banner/Dund Hot". I have no idea what that means. None of the terms appear to have Wikipedia articles. Is this a hoax? AxelBoldt 02:54, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I thought Xanadu was fictional. --Ideogram 03:44, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Found this. --Ideogram 06:11, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll incorporate that information into the article. Cheers, AxelBoldt 02:11, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Anyone here from Beijing with a camera?

I realize Wikipedia is blocked in Mainland China, but I have heard there is some editing of Wikipedia in China anyway. Is there anyone in or near Beijing who has or can take photos of Chinese dinosaurs? My understanding is that Beijing has a very large museum of Asian dinosaurs, the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology. Wikipedia:WikiProject Dinosaurs has at least 50 articles of Chinese dinosaurs which lack illustrations. A quick visit to the museum could provide Wikipedia with illustrations for these articles. If you know of someone who has or who can obtain pictures of dinosaur genera Dashanpusaurus, Magnirostris, Yuanmousaurus, Microhadrosaurus, Kelmayisaurus, Eugongbusaurus, Siluosaurus, Tatisaurus, Chungkingosaurus, Chinshakiangosaurus, Datousaurus, Gyposaurus, Bienosaurus, Stegosaurides, Tugulusaurus, Omeisaurus, Zigongosaurus, Chaoyangsaurus, Bellusaurus, Phaedrolosaurus, Crichtonsaurus, Chialingosaurus, Alxasaurus, Archaeoceratops, Yangchuanosaurus, Gasosaurus, or the non-dinosaurian pterosaurs Huanhepterus or Liaoxipterus please have them upload them. Firsfron of Ronchester 23:22, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Huo Long Jing

Gunpowder, Firearms, Cannons, Flamethrowers, Land Mines, and Rockets - What do all of these have in Common?

Why, they're all described and illustrated in the article (I created) on the 14th century Ming Dynasty military treatise of the Huo Long Jing, edited and compiled by the artillery officer Jiao Yu! Lol. Hey guys, how's it going, Pericles here. I just set up the Huo Long Jing article for peer review at:

Wikipedia:Peer review/Huo Long Jing/archive1

I'd be grateful if the lot of you would make some contributions in suggesting improvements or adding material to the article. Otherwise, why even join WikiProject China? Get to it, soldier, or I'll launch a fire arrow up your kiester.--PericlesofAthens 19:04, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Three Kingdoms WikiProject

By the way, for anybody that's interested, User:Ling.Nut has created a Three Kingdoms WikiProject.

Thanks for putting out the word — and for the record it's been a joint effort with Gamer Junkie, _dk, Sarazyn, and Plastictv. Others are extremely welcome (and begged) to join in! :-) Ling.Nut 21:21, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I have it on my watch list and might help out occasionally, but as it is, I already have a major case of Attention deficit disorder when it comes to editing articles, so I can't make any promises. :-p Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 05:01, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

convert tables on emperor articles to a template...

I'd like to propose converting those tables (employed as infoboxes) to a single template. Doing so will:

Reduce the weight of every page
Make it much easier to propagate changes (that is, if some across-the-board change, large or small is needed; see below)
Ensure a consistent format.

While I'm thinking of it:

The tables include notes.. which perhaps would better be formatted as as straightforward <ref>-type footnotes with their text appearing in a "Notes" section. Within the table/infobox, they look a bit distracting/cluttered...
The text needs to be v-aligned (for example see in the "Posthumous name (full)" row in Qianlong Emperor).

...and other aesthetic improvements could be experimented with in a centralized manner...

Thanks --Ling.Nut 01:33, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

You want to convert this giant Table of Chinese monarchs to a single template?? May I ask if that is what you have in mind? Benjwong 03:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

No, that isn't it. :-) Look at Qin Shi Huang.. See the thing that looks like an infobox? It's a table. A similar table is in many articles. these should be converted to a single template, for the reasons given above. Ling.Nut 03:13, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

(undent) [[Qianlong Emperor]] has a template.. that could be edited... Ling.Nut 03:17, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok. I see. Yes that would be a good idea. In fact if I didn't look at the editpage, I would assume it was already using a template. Benjwong 20:11, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Mojibake move

I am proposing to have Mojibake, the current article for "乱码", moved to another name (preferably a purely English name). I think the problem is pretty common in Chinese. If anyone is interested in this topic, feel free to comment on its talk page. --Voidvector 10:15, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Workgroups

Although this project has many "workgroups," they all appear to be independent "WikiProjects." Should we make them part of this project?--Jerry 22:20, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Condor Heroes-related articles

A number of articles exist for The Legend of the Condor Heroes and The Return of the Condor Heroes, including articles for specific characters, but they are all either poorly sourced or completely unsourced. Some might need wikifying also. Most of them are not tagged for any WikiProjects - I did a few for WPChina. This is probably true also of articles that are about Jinyong's other books. I am not familiar with how to source for articles that are about fictional works or fictional characters, so if you have any insight, please try to improve these articles so they do not risk deletion when some editors come in and feel that they do not assert notability or something. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 06:47, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Help settle a dispute at List of tributaries of Imperial China

Calling all editors who are versed in imperial age Chinese history - I need some help settling a dispute at List of tributaries of Imperial China. I am neutral in the dispute, but I'm trying to help the editors involved come to a compromise. But I'm not as well versed in imperial age Chinese history as some of you may be, especially in terms of finding sources. So please help. Also, the article itself needs better sourcing that's not related to the dispute. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 04:38, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

China Green Party: China-related article up for deletion

Please comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/China Green Party. --PalaceGuard008 07:52, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

chinese text

I think the {{ChineseText}} marker should be at the beginning of articles, not the end. Why: so readers can immediately see what is wrong if Chinese characters are not shown. What do you think? Hmains 17:51, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, and even moved a couple of them, but often there are other things at the top as well, including infoboxes, navigation templates, and sometimes a picture. All these things tend to collide and the formatting gets messed up. I don't have a good solution. --Ideogram 21:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

The table that is the fix for stacked infoboxes is probably the fix. See Battle of Red Cliffs for an example. See Wikipedia:How to fix bunched-up edit links for more examples/discussion. Ling.Nut 01:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Can you fix Taiwan and Republic of China? --Ideogram 02:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

(Undent) I assumed you were talking about bunched-up edit links... I looked at Taiwan and it looks OK to me.. the dismabig text is to the left of the "Chinese chars" template; the latter is above a couple templates/images... what part needs to be fixed? (That's an honest question, not a rhetorical one). Ling.Nut 13:44, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

There's three things vying for the top right and they all have different widths making the right margin weave in and out. There's got to be a better way. --Ideogram 21:30, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Taiwan and Republic of China have the Chinese Text marker at the top. I think this is a good place for it, not at the bottom where I see it placed in various articles. Hmains 02:05, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I changed the size to be the same as a thumb image .... let me know if that helps... Ling.Nut 02:31, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't work, since the size of a thumb image depends on the user's preferences, and on the screen resolution for anonymous users. For example, my thumb image size is set to 300 pixels, so it still looks bad. And on Republic of China the infobox has a different width. It looks like you would have to do something fancy with a table to get everything lined up. --Ideogram 03:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

(undent) OK. I self-reverted my edits. I'll think about this problem... the table fix I suggested earlier won't work tho :-( Ling.Nut 03:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I don't even like having two images at the top of the article. I feel one image per subsection is enough, probably the location map. It would still be a problem making the ChineseText box and the map image look good together though. --Ideogram 03:40, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

As for the infobox in Republic of China, apparently the width is specified in something called "ex" (I don't know what this unit is, the width of an 'x'?) so different units from the ChineseText box. Ideally we could specify their widths in the same units, so they could be the same. --Ideogram 03:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Poll for article move at Wokou

There's currently a poll on a proposed article move at Wokou. Poll options include:

Move to Japanese pirates
Move to Wakō
Move to Wōkòu
Keep at Wokou

Please vote if you have an opinion. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:32, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Proposing a sectional move

The section Simplified Chinese characters#Debate on traditional and simplified Chinese characters should be moved into a separate article. Would anyone object if this whole section moves to a page by itself? Benjwong 01:53, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Many parts of that section are unreferenced. It might be suitable for its own article, but I hope that you have references lined up.--Danaman5 22:02, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Propose to remove en:Image:Deadchinesesoldier.jpg

How about your idea?--Ksyrie 20:36, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

As pointed out at the deletion discussion, your rational that the image may be offensive to Chinese readers is not in line with Wikipedia precedent, as Wikipedia is not censored.--Danaman5 22:01, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Pedophilia materials are also banned by wikimedia.--Ksyrie 23:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I am sure there is some wiki policies to prohibit some sex and violent explicit materials and images appearing on wiki,but for the moment,I cann't find any,hoping someone can can help.--Ksyrie 00:01, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Here's a start - WP:NOT#CENSORED. LordAmeth 00:34, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Just a note: the deletion discussion here has been closed, because the image in question is a commons image. You will need to register an account and list it at commons if you would like to pursue this matter.--Danaman5 01:12, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Someone in the Talk:Korean War had found another similar pic Image:Deadparagermany.jpg, which I found it as bloody explicit as this one.So why not wiki set up a rule to prevent the high resolution violent and sex pics?--Ksyrie 04:17, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Anyone living on Taiwan?

(And willing to help me contact/phone/email the big, scary army of yours?) Anyway, I need to get permission to use a bunch of pics they have on their MND website, and their site is just monstrous. No link to contact the webmaster, and the response/suggestions form needs an ROC ID number... which I don't have. My ex-KMT general granduncle just happens to be retiring/vacationing in Shanghai now, and I doubt he still knows who to talk to for this sort of stuff... So if anyone can help me get in touch with someone in charge (of the website, at least,) I'd really appreciate it. -- 我♥中國 03:32, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

try this link zh:Wikipedia:台灣主題公告欄.--Ksyrie 03:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Not terribly active, though, is it? Last edit some time in May... -- 我♥中國 04:04, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

This one zh:Wikipedia:互助客栈/其他,one of the most active 'bulletinboard' in chinese wiki.Lots of wikimaniac,and often too political.Pay attention your way of wording to avoid unnecessary trouble.--Ksyrie 04:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Guess that'll have to do, thanks for the help. -- 我♥中國 04:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I live IN Taiwan (not on). I don't think the MND would give permission to use most of the pictures. ludahai 魯大海 23:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

best english version

What would be a good translation of 金台三打少林寺 ? Jin Tai is the main character, so would it be "Jin Tai's three battles with the Shaolin monastery"? The book mentions a person from one of my articles. I would like to note it.(Ghostexorcist 04:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC))

Duplicate articles

Would anybody be interested in helping to merge Lin Feng into Limahong? They are two articles about the same person. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 16:00, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't we be merging Limahong into Lin Feng? It seems like the latter is his real name.--Danaman5 05:01, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I think he is more commonly known as Limahong. That's why I suggested we merge into the Limahong article. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

The Limahong has a lot of proper nouns in dialect transliterations. (e.g. the province of "Cuy Tan" -- I know Teochow is in Guangdong, but Cuy Tang sounds nothing like it! Regardless of which way it merges, someone with knwoledge of whatever dialect it is will need to go through and work out what they are and wikify them. --PalaceGuard008 00:17, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Use of Mandarin names for historical periods before Mandarin

It occurs to me that it's rather curious to use Mandarin names for people whose names would have been in Old or Middle Chinese (or some other dialect). Though Mandarin is the lingua franca -- and the academic community also refers to historical figures by their Mandarin names, I think we should make it clear that the Mandarin names are modern representations of the characters in their names, not what they would have actually been called.

For example, I note when the article talks about "Beiping" being changed to "Beijing", the change in pronunciation at the time would have been closer to changing "pukbaing" to "pukkaing" (which anticipates the eventual "Peking"). (I'm not at all an expert on old pronunciations, just using a reconstruction resource here, so feel free to correct me). I just think that we lose a lot of historical "feel" if we represent only the modern Mandarin pronunciation of characters. After all, when people talk about Anglo-Saxon history they often leave the names in Old English intact. I'm not at all suggesting we go into all the articles and start changing names, but perhaps make it clear that the pinyin forms for pre-Mandarin people and places are just the modern representations, not what they were actually called. Elle _{vécut heureuse} ^{à jamais} (Be eudaimonic!) 01:28, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it's a problem without an easy solution. Translating from one language to another, or from old forms of language to new, will always have problems. I mean, actually, Beijing's name was never Beijing at all. It is 北京。By romanizing it into English, we are already distancing it from the original to a certain degree. As for putting disclaimers about this on articles, well, that would be quite a few disclaimers to add...--Danaman5 01:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that, unlike those Saxon names, there is no standard practice for transliterating old or middle Chinese. Pronunciations and spelling will vary between sources. Plus, you don't know the precise pronunciation of any one person or place at any period or time.

For example, if you abandon modern Mandarin as the standard, then shouldn't you, say, transliterate the Wuyue article using 10th century Wu dialect? It may be difficult to find such sources. --PalaceGuard008 02:13, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Templates for Chinese emperors by dynasty

I have started making footer templates listing the emperors for each dynasty to ease navigation among them. I have finished Template:Liao emperors and Template:Song emperors. I will do the remainder of these dynasties in the coming weeks and affix the templates to the bottom of the relevant emperor pages. ludahai 魯大海 04:20, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I just finished Template:Western Xia emperors ludahai 魯大海 01:25, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Question about notability of an unlicensed Chinese video game for the NES

I wrote an article about Super Donkey Kong - Xiang Jiao Chuan, an unlicensed video game from China. People on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games questioned its notability. I am asking someone well-versed with Chinese to search Google with the game's Chinese name and see if you can find websites that discuss this game. WhisperToMe 13:44, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

WP China userbox

Does anybody else think that the current WP China userbox is kind of plain or ugly? Would anybody mind if I replaced the typed-in "華" with either this picture or a picture of the Great Wall from Commons? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 16:51, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Here are a couple of options:

This user is a member of WikiProject China

Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Since the picture in the left option is already on every single WP:CHINA tag, I'd prefer the great wall option.--Danaman5 17:15, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, we can change the background colour of the box, too. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll change the picture to the Great Wall now. Feel free to revert or discuss if you disagree with it. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 16:26, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Vote on name

[[1]]

please offer your opinion on whether the current title for Goguryeo-China Wars is good or not. Good friend100 22:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Lingwu, Lingzhou

I have recently put a merge tag on these two articles. From what I can gather from the information provided by OnlyButAlso's comments on the Lingwu talk page and my talk page, Lingzhou is the historical name of the city now called Lingwu. If this is the case I feel that the two articles should be merged with most of the information in the Lingzhou article being moved to a "History" section. However, OnlyButAlso does not seem to be very proficient with English, and I would like to be certain that he and I are understanding each other. Unless there is some opposition I will assume that my understanding is correct and will merge the pages early next week. If someone with better knowledge of China than I can correct me, if my understanding is incorrect, then I would be grateful. (If someone were to carry out the merge, if merging is appropriate, before I get to it, that would be good too.) Dsmdgold 03:12, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

hi,Dsmdgold,Lingzhou is old name of Lingwu,Lingzhou is know only by historian today in China,Most people know only Lingwu. So you can link Lingzhou to Lingwu,you can not link Lingwu to Lingzhou,because Lingzhou is a died word in China,I believe you can understand me. Dsmdgold,you can Merge Lingzhou and Lingwu in One,with name Lingwu,simple link Lingzhou to Lingwu,don't ling Lingwu to Lingzhou as before.You can image some people come from Lingwu see That Lingwu linked by Lingzhou,they will very sad and unhappy:so we do not called Iraq as babylon,we do not called America as Maya,we do not France as Gaul. IF you still want to link Lingwu to Lingzhou,please try to Link Iraq to Babylon first. Thank you for reading this.

OnlyButAlso 10:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Dsmdgold:I am very sorry I forget tell you some thing: Lingzhou have another means is China or 'God land' (灵GOD洲land)。And Lingwu is a name of a famous emperor (Han dynasty). OnlyButAlso 11:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Tally Trade

Does anyone know if we have an article on 勘合 (kanhe?) trading visas issued by the Ming and Qing to representatives of their tributary states? It seems quite common to call this the "tally trade" in English-language sources, though I have no idea why, and it doesn't appear on the disambig page for Tally. Thanks. LordAmeth 12:34, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Well "勘" means check, proofread, verify, measure, etc. So I guess it is tenuously connected with "tally". --PalaceGuard008 11:36, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

help with image of mengchong doujian (蒙冲斗舰)

... any thoughts on how to track down/verify the original source (and relevant copyright info) of the mengchong doujian (蒙冲斗舰) ... maybe this [2]? Also look in Chinese wikipedia under "naval warfare" or some such? Ling.Nut 12:33, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Chinese child considered one year old at birth

I am reading a biography about Yue Fei and one source therein claims an important person in his life died in 1121 when Yue was 19. But if Yue was born in 1103 (like this and so many other bios state), it should read 1122. Does anyone know of any scholarly sources that mention some Chinese believe a baby is one year old at birth? I think this has relevance to the miscalculation. If the author of the cited source believed Yue was 1 at birth, then 1121 would fit.

I don't think they messed up on what age Yue was because other sources state this person died shortly before Yue entered the military in 1122, when he was 19. (Ghostexorcist 23:57, 15 June 2007 (UTC))

Actually, your "age" in traditional Chinese reckoning is counted from conception, so that when you are born you are counted as (notionally) one years old. The "age" then increases by one year after each lunar new year. So a baby born on lunar new year's eve can be "two year's old" just a day after being born. This traditional "age" is called 虚岁 in Chinese.

In fact, there's a Wikipedia article on it: East Asian age reckoning. --PalaceGuard008 00:21, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that the easiest way to understand Chinese ages is to remember that it is basically counted by the number of lunar years that you have lived in. So, yes, a newborn baby is technically one year old, because he or she has been alive during one lunar year. And, if the lunar new year came two days later, that three day old baby would suddenly be two years old. I should note that, in my experience, younger Chinese people seem to be following the Western system these days.--Danaman5 20:53, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Help

I find some mistake at article Yinchuan,eg: 1,an area of 4467 km .(the real number is 9489 sq.km. and,you know km is length,not a area unit.)

2,an annual frost time of 158 days.(Infact,Non-frost(frost-free) time is 158 days,and frost time is 365-158)

I have edited it yesterday afternoon,but today i find all words and number i edited turn back again,why?OnlyButAlso 04:57, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Revert it back to the correct version. Miranda 05:02, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Feedback needed

I recently split the Zhou Tong (archer) article into two parts: History and Fiction. I then added more historical info about Zhou that I just learned about. I would like some general feedback from other users to see what they think of the changes. (Ghostexorcist 08:57, 20 June 2007 (UTC))

Goguryeo-China Wars

Currently there is a move request for Goguryeo-China Wars to be moved to Military history of Goguryeo. Please vote and offer your opinion on the subject here Talk:Goguryeo-China wars, thanks. Good friend100 00:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Energy policy of China

As this article is currently mentioned on the Main Page, perhaps someone is able to add more content? Gralo 08:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Image hunting and image use

I, along with several other editors at the WikiProject Three Kingdoms, have been trying to get Battle of Red Cliffs to featured status for a while now. One of the concerns we have with the article before we send it to WP:FAC is that it has too few images. For something as famous/influential as this battle (like THE most famous Chinese battle in history, really), I'm shocked that I cannot find any free use images depicting the battle on the internet. So here is my first request: Are there any free use image of the battle (ie. Did any ancient Chinese artist try to draw it?) that can be used on the article?

During my search, however, I've found this watermarked and off-scale picture which looks impressive enough for the article. The portrait is drawn by a Zheng Hongliu (郑洪流) on an unspecified year, and unfortunately for our purposes, he's not dead yet (God I'm horrible). Seeing that I cannot find a free alternative, if I were to use this image for the article, how can I convince the fair use crew that a free use alternative cannot be found for this 1800 year old battle? (And yeah, something needs to be done about that watermark)

Thank you. _dk 09:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I am sure that there must be plenty of images out there of this battle; I've heard of it through my Japanese art history class, and vaguely recall being told it was a popular subject. The issue is, however, that regardless of their age, many otherwise free images are copyrighted and closely guarded by museums. That said, if a good fair use image of one of these older paintings can be found, I would vote for using one of those over this admittedly beautifully but very much Western-style (i.e. non-traditional-Chinese) painting. LordAmeth 14:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

And a google image search in Japanese gives me screenshots from video games and the anime, orz. Also, for those interested, this is the page from where I found that western-style portrait of the Battle of Chibi, that page has tons of portraits for battles in the Second Sino-Japanese War and the Chinese Civil War (with some Communist bias, I suspect), which I think can be put to use :) _dk 23:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Deadkid dk - I tried searching for an image of the battle, but found the same painting you did. Not sure if it qualifies under fair use. You can ask about that here - Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. If editors and admins that frequent that page think it's OK, then it probably can qualify under fair use. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 05:31, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The answer is negative. Well then, what kind of images do you guys think can be/should be added to the article? _dk 11:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Are there old calligraphy written works about the battle? Or how about more modern-day pictures of the site of the battle? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 20:39, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Possible FA - need help

I have been working on the Zhou Tong (archer) page for roughly 2 years. I have put it up for FA status. One editor gave me a small list of stuff to fix before it can pass. I need someone to help with minor stuff, mainly grammar and readibility. Please see Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Zhou Tong (archer). Apart from that, I just need general support. I will do the majority of the reference changes (but I don't like his suggestion). I like the way the references currently are. Thanks. (Ghostexorcist 02:34, 24 June 2007 (UTC))

You don't necessarily always have to do exactly what FA reviewers suggest, IF you can make a strong case for your own method (using Wikipedia guidelines, policies, etc.) Some reviewers are more experienced than others.

Wow that is a long article! I don't have time to go through it word by word. I fixed a few spelling errors. I saw a sentence that starts with "And." Also, just breezing through, it looks like some info can be cut.. I saw something that looked like a detailed comment about one of Zhou Tong's students emulating heroes.. if info is about people other than Zhou Tong, such detail may not be necessary... Ling.Nut 12:49, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I will take care of the longer bits about his students. I have a question though, throughout the page, I have formated all references of Chinese to look like (Chinese: example). Another editor suggested that I erase all of these because it is supposedly used too many times. This formatting was originally done by a very active member of the project. As I expanded the page, I continued to use the formatting. Should I delete the Chinese formatting or keep it?(Ghostexorcist 01:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC))

(undent) There may be something about this question in Wikipedia:Manual of Style (China-related articles)... Ling.Nut 03:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

The article passed FA, but I feel it needs some copy-editing. (Ghostexorcist 20:59, 20 July 2007 (UTC))

CfD to delete Category:Chinese_scholars

People may well wish to comment at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_June_27#Category:Chinese_scholars which proposes to delete the Chinese scholars category, redistributing the contents among other categories. If there is a China-related discussions list, could someone please add it there. Thanks, Johnbod 01:50, 28 June 2007 (UTC)