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descendant Wikiprojects

Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Chinese military history task force would be one, wouldn't it? Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 22:43, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and uh a bit ambitious for the moment, but in defining scope, what about overseas Chinese communities (in this case, Singapore...), or incidents which dealt with the Chinese people (Sook Ching), ie. Chinese immigration act. Although I suppose that might fall under a future descendant project. Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 22:48, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Is it? Chinese milhist task force was started earlier... :-/ And I'm scared of stepping on SGpedians' precious toes... -- Миборовский 22:49, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Although I would only put at most an "overseas Chinese" banner (and that would be possibly resistive in itself) - perhaps just demographics. I meant for articles like Tan Kah Kee....Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 22:52, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, maybe a "Chinese diaspora" or "Overseas Chinese" banner would be good. But it's a bit premature to think about that now. :S -- Миборовский 22:57, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Falun Gong

Somebody (was that you Miborovsky? I just noticed your name above.) added the Falun Gong article to the project and I'm not sure that it's really appropriate. Because of the international tenor that FLG has taken on, it seems to be outside the scope of this Wikiproject. I wanted to get feedback from participants. CovenantD 20:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

It was me. I think that as Falun Gong was started in China it has a lot to do with China. The CPC government's suppression, too. It doesn't mean that Falun Gong is exclusively a Chinese thing. Just "China-related". If most editors on FLG agree that it should not be there, take it down. -- Миборовский 20:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh no, I'm not bringing it up over there. :-) They've got enough to consider now as it is. I wasn't sure of who or why, which is how I decided to raise the issue here. I'm more than willing to leave the tag. CovenantD 21:10, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Now that we have this wikiproject, what will be the role of Wikipedia:China-related topics notice board? I think the underultilized todo list there has been made redundant--Jiang 04:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Taking a look at regional noticeboards across Wikipedia, I noticed that a large number of them are in a state of disrepair and abandonment. My thinking is that a WikiProject requires less constant input to keep it going (whereas people have to check in to the noticeboard everyday). I think we can move the to-do over there to our worklist here, most of them seem to be completed, anyway. -- Миборовский 00:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I've incorporated the ailing noticeboard's worklist to our worklist (on the project banner). I weeded out requests that have been fulfilled and disputes that have been resolved, and we still have a pretty substantial to-do list that would make a good start to this wikiproject if we can finish them all... whaddaya guy say? -- Миборовский 22:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Recent edits

I've reorganized the list of parent and descendant WikiProjects; added a "writing articles" and "structure and organization section"; as well as removed any sections not directly related to WikiProject China (for example, the links to to the general AfD, CfD, etc discussions). Any comments/objections?--TBCTaLk?!? 16:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I've been meaning to do that myself. Thanks for hunting down GAs and such, too. -- Миборовский 00:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Project Banner

Would anyone object to making our project banner something like the Korean one: {{korean}}? If not, what should we include on it? And also important is, what should the picture be? I'm not too satisfied with the current big-font-size "華", any good suggestions? How about Image:Chinesecoin.jpg? (Though the connection to China may not be visible to all...) -- Миборовский 00:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

No objections. As for the picture I have no idea since we already have a dragon and Huangdi for the userboxes. --Yenchin 02:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

This article is part of WikiProject China.
For some reason there is a huge gap between the picture and the main body of text... and the right side is quite empty, too. Suggestions? -- Миборовский 03:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
And the white background of the coin image will have to be removed, too. -- Миборовский 03:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I would also like to add that on my computer the '華' was cropped on the top and bottom and looks like '垂' instead, which to me, is very bad feng shui :o _dk 04:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Eek! That's not good indeed. Can someone more template-savvy make a better banner? -- Миборовский 04:13, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Hmmm, I prefer something that is hand-written calligraphy. Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 06:53, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
File:Panda in vienna.jpg

Heh, maybe not. — Nrtm81 13:25, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

new member and looking for books

Hi guys, I just joined.

While I'm here, I'll mention this article which talks about some books I'd like to buy. Unfortunately they seem to be out-of-print and since they were published in China (I think) used copies are not available either. Does anyone know where I can find these four books:

  • "China Can Say No"
  • "A Portrait of the Sino-U.S. Contest"
  • "Whither Taiwan?"
  • "Containing China: Myth and Reality"

Thanks a lot, and I look forward to working with you. Ideogram 23:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

  • 中国可以说不 ISBN 7-5059-2545-8
  • After Hong Kong: Whither Taiwan? ISBN 975-02-0996-8 Parameter error in {{ISBN}}: checksum
I have no clue where you can buy them, though. -- Миборовский 00:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately I can't read Chinese so I need them all in English. Ideogram 00:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't think there is an English translation of China Can Say No, but Whither Taiwan? seems to be in English. -- Миборовский 01:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't think this is the same book, but it looks interesting enough so I ordered it from Amazon anyway. Thanks! Ideogram 01:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Glad to be of help. -- Миборовский 02:38, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

cleanup and copyedit

If you could list pages requiring cleanup and copyediting, that would give me something I could work on. Ideogram 08:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Added a "Cleanup request" section to worklist, and 2 articles I've found that require cleanup and/or context. -- Миборовский 08:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

quick question

I was just wondering how much information does an article have to have before being no longer considered as a stub anymore? clragon 14:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'd say, when it has 2 paragraphs. But that's just me. I don't think there is a set standard to what articles are stubs. -- Миборовский 00:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Nanjing Incident

Can this stub qualify as an article now? LuChang 12:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Considering the size of the topic, I would say no. Ideogram 12:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Taiwan

Hi, the names for the Wiki projects of China are named as:

Would it be alright to name projects for Taiwan as Wikipedia:WikiProject Taiwan? (No political connotations, just neutral information concerning Taiwan) — Nrtm81 10:06, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Hong Kong is already well-neglected. We might as well keep this all in one place, for consistency's sake.--Jiang 13:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I see, so I'll link to WikiProject China from the Taiwan portal. — Nrtm81 14:00, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
The HK noticeboard seems to be quite alive, fortunately. Can't say the same for the Chinese noticeboard. -- Миборовский 22:46, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

We need a portal

We should have a Portal:China. Ideogram 10:59, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

We already have a Portal:PRC and Portal:Taiwan (and Portal:HK). If we have a Portal:China, would the focus be
  1. Greater China
  2. Chinese history
  3. Both
  4. Something else?
-- Миборовский 22:45, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
All of the above and more. I thought of this issue because we have a Portal Taiwan that is concerned with Taiwanese history before the island became governed by the ROC, and we are going to have a Portal:ROC for political matters. Ideogram 10:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I have created the portal. Now all we have to do is fill in the blanks. Ideogram 10:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Would that not be an unnecessary bloating of portals? Surely just renaming Portal:Taiwan to Portal:ROC would do it. But of course, there are crazy Taidu people... -- Миборовский 15:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I believe given the touchy political situation we need one set of portals covering History, Geography, and People (China, Taiwan, Hong Kong) and one set of portals covering Politics and Government (PRC, ROC). Ideogram 15:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that someone has created a Portal:ROC too, so now we have a place for ROC's history 1911-1949!!! Yaay!!! -- Миборовский 16:20, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
lol, so I'm a crazy Taidu person? :-) Portal:Taiwan isn't intended to push an independence theme. It's just about Taiwan. The ROC's situation is complex. The official stance of ROC is that it is the government of China, the 25 nations that have official relations with ROC don't recognize PRC. ROC's official territorial boundaries has never changed to reflect it's current nature.
So I created Portal:Republic of China to be a rival portal to the existing Portal:People's Republic of China. Incidentally, the Portal:China was violating NPOV by redirecting to the PRC portal. But now that we have a non-political Portal:China portal, hopefully there's less tension over "China" and "Taiwan" as specifically "PRC" and "ROC" since both claim the same thing (sole government of China including Taiwan) — Nrtm81 17:18, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Are you? I apologise then, I suppose it's not very good of me to start a politically-neutral WikiProject China and then call Taidu people crazy on its talkpage... :p Yes now that we have a generic Portal:China which can hopefully include the history, culture etc people will have less trouble setting up the PRC and ROC (and Taiwan and HK) portals. -- Миборовский 17:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
lol, don't worry about it. Someone else had accused me of Taidu when it wasn't my intension. It's just that the ROC situation is a difficult one. Even to suggest ROC is Taiwan is against ROC's official stance of being the government of China. So what can you do? If you want to know, I don't support Taidu, it doesn't make sense. Taiwanese are just Chinese, speak Chinese, have Chinese culture. I read that 80% ROC citizens favor unification with China but not under PRC, or at least not the way PRC is operating. They're waiting for the PRC to adopt the Sanmin Doctrine or at least similar to it.
By the way, to make ROC and PRC portals... should we make them focus more on the politics and their history? But then what about China portal? cities, culture, languages, etc... Seems to be a bit complicated.. Do we touch the PRC portal and move non-political items over to China portal to make it more neutral in relation to PRC and ROC political rivalry? — Nrtm81 19:11, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Also, the ROC succeeded the Qing dynasty, we cannot ignore the fact that the ROC has not been overthrown. The reality is PRC and ROC co-exist but control two different areas of China, although some say ROC is a government in exile (because it claims it's official capital at Nanjing) and lost legitimacy (similar to the Dalai Lama and Tibet when it was annexed by the PRC in 1950) — Nrtm81 19:20, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Concessions

We need an actual article detailing the concessions as well as the cultural issues (not merely political!) From reading Adeline Yen-Mah's books alone (haha, primary school reading material) one can tell there was quite a bit of cultural diffusion, as well as second-class treatment though one lived inside the concessions. We have an article on concessions in Tianjin, Shanghai International Settlement and on the Unequal Treaties but no unifying article? Where to start?

Namely I'd like the concessions to be kept in mind to be linked, so when it's created it's easier to integrate. Often when detailing the battles in Chinese cities they keep mentioning troop movements, but I'd imagine one of the prevailing thoughts and issues for tactics on the commander's mind is how to get from point A to point B without damaging the French/American/British settlement or how the Japanese can use their own settlement to their own advantage. (Of course, this is something I should be posting on the milhist page.) Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 21:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that'd be a good idea. What would be a good name for the article? Concessions in China?
Actually, during the war the Japanese were far more interested in not damaging the concessions than the Chinese were, for obvious reasons. (For example, Battle of Shanghai and the 800 Heroes.) Also, I think most/many of the concessions were already returned to China, so the only major ones left were Shanghai and (I'm not sure but possibly) Guangzhou/Guangdong. -- Миборовский 22:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
The article name sounds right. I thought the concessions were only returned to China during the Sino-British Friendship Treaty of 1943 (to support an alliance against the Axis)? This map I found portrays that the concessions dwarf the Nationalist-controlled portions of Shanghai, the old city itself is well can only be attacked by river or from the south in an extremely longwinded flank (I guess that's where amphibious assault came in) but it seems really defensible seeing as whatever the KMT needed to defend seemed to be a minor portion of the city! I was just wondering how it Shanghai could be the "core of the KMT economy" as so described in the Battle of Shanghai article if most of it was foreign-controlled? I guess one could have a KMT-friendly presence inside the concessions, but they would be invulnerable to attack until 1941.
That reminds me, when the Germans started fighting the Allies in September 1939, did German troops start attacking others in the concessions (seeing as Japan moved in 1941), and what was their fate? This is for wherever the Germans had concessions or had German property and military possessions, ie. those in Tianjin. Sino-German cooperation seems to only detail the 1937 and 1941 relationship issues, but not 1939. Somehow the Italian concession in Tianjin (see article) managed to have their military garrison intact as well between 1939 and 1941. Or was it "All Quiet on that Eastern Front" too? ;-) Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 01:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, IIRC the Italians also shared the foreign concessions in Shanghai, at least in 1937. I do not know what happened to them in 1939, though. (And Italy only joined Axis after la six-week capitulation française...) -- Миборовский 02:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, the concept of "cliques" needs to be more well grounded in an actual article(s). Wikifying a province name then saying "clique" after it isn't exactly ideal. Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 06:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

French articles

Since Blueshirts understands French (as do I) I just found out they had a larger wealth of articles than I thought. They don't have an article on the NRA, the Battle of Shanghai, and the article on the Second Sino-Japanese War is pitiful etc. but they seem to have a larger collection of material about obscurer topics like minor warlords and 28 Bolsheviks...hmmm. Methinks some better correlations is needed Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 07:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

My French sucks so I can't be of any help here... try listing them in the to-do list, eh? -- Миборовский 17:31, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

China portals consistency

We should try to establish a consistent look-and-feel for all the China-related portals, Portal:China, Portal:Taiwan, Portal:Hong Kong, Portal:People's Republic of China, and Portal:Republic of China. I have created a Portal:People's Republic of China (new) consistent with Portal:China. Ideogram 11:12, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Looking at Portal:Taiwan, I see these issues:

  • Uses browsebarcountry instead of browsebar. I don't think browsebarcountry is appropriate since it combines Politics, Government, Culture, and History, which we are trying to keep separate.
  • Color scheme is different. If we want to have the same color scheme for all the portals, we have to decide on one. Or, we may decide to let all the portals have different color schemes.
  • "See also: Portal:Republic of China". I think this could be moved to a disambiguation section at the top of the page which would list all five portals.
  • Anniversaries box. I think that legal holidays, being determined by the government, belong on the government related portals.
  • Did you know box. The Plum Blossom entry is government related and belongs on Portal:ROC.
  • Categories box. The categories Economy and Politics should be moved to Portal:ROC. Transportation should be duplicated in both portals. I also need to create the corresponding categories box in Portal:China and Portal:PRC. The use of pictures is very good and I would probably need help finding appropriate pictures to use.
  • Other portals box. The contents of this box should not be in a box. See Portal:China.
  • Skeleton. In general, we should use the same skeleton template for all the portals. I can easily replace the skeleton of Portal:Taiwan (and Portal:ROC) while keeping the same content if you are willing. I see now that it is already using the same skeleton template. Ideogram 11:34, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
About Portal:Taiwan: I've just replaced the browsebarcountry template with plain text; Changed color theme to orange; PRC portal should stay as red/gold, ROC could be red/blue, I'm not sure if China, Taiwan, Hong Kong should have the same color theme or let them be individual; Disambiguation text placed at the top; Removed anniversaries box; Moved Plum blossom item from Did You Know to ROC portal; Removed the box "Other portals"; Skelaton layout needs to be decided upon; Category box needs to be weeded out between Taiwan and ROC categories. — Nrtm81 19:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I think that mandating Portal colour schemes is just going a little bit overboard... It's really for each portal to decide how it should look, I don't think people uninvolved in that portal should have a say. -- Миборовский 20:00, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I am trying to get together all of the people involved in all of the portals. So far it's just us. Ideogram 20:06, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
True, the color of the portals tends to reflect what is more accustomed for that subject. China tends to use red (Chinese New Year), Hong Kong is accustomed to blue due to the flag under British rule (just my guess). Also red seems to suggest blood, battle, or communism. Taiwan tends to use green for "island" though it apparently has connection to independence movement. — Nrtm81 20:26, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Red is the favorite color of Chinese culture. Not that I'm arguing they should all be the same color, but if they are it should be red. Ideogram 20:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Chinese obsession with red (and yellow/gold) has nothing to do with communism. Though it may seem to be so. Even I sometimes get allergic reactions to "滿江紅" displays of red on China-related stuff. But really, each to his own. I'm happy with red for Portal:China. -- Миборовский 20:55, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I know that red is popular in Chinese culture but the red/yellow combo used in the design of the PRC flag is just like the USSR flag. Was that just coincidence? Makes me wonder. By the way Miborovsky, what's your take on the name for the portal concerning Taiwan? At the moment, there's three suggestions: Portal:Taiwan (I prefer), Portal:Taiwan Island (or "Taiwan (island)", Portal:Free Area of the Republic of China. — Nrtm81 03:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Your choice really. I'm not involved in the Taiwan Portal (though I get involved in the ROC one) so it's really not for me to decide. But still, I prefer Portal:Taiwan, as long as the portal makes clear that it's about the island and that Taiwan =/= ROC. It's counterrproductive to get overly sensitive about everything. But still, I wonder what you're gonna do about those little Fujian islands. -- Миборовский 16:59, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I think the Fujian islands can be covered under the ROC portal. After all, the USA was the one that persuaded the KMT not to lose them to the PRC. The Taiwan portal is mainly about the island of Formosa and the Pescadores as the history goes back four centuries, whereas the Fujian islands are more recent (after ROC came into existence) — Nrtm81 20:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

New article Heaven worship needs experts

I just created the article Heaven worship which is in need of an expert to expand it. It's a very interesting subject, but a pity I don't know more about it. -- Миборовский 20:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

There's a Chinese article on "Heaven worship" but it's more like "God" as the article. The intro says: The "Emperor Above" (also "Heavenly Lord", "Heavenly Emperor")... 上帝，（或稱天主、天帝）zh:上帝. Though it says in the traditional Chinese belief, the term refers to 玉皇大帝 (Jade Emperor). I put a Chinese link to the article. Have fun editing :-)04:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Argh... Jade Emperor is Daoist... maybe Heaven worship was introduced by the Lost Ten Tribes of the Abrahamic people that were exiled from Judah in 722 BCE. According to History of the Jews in China, there is a tablet dated 1663 commemorating the rebuilding of a synagogue that states Judaism was transmitted to China via India during the Zhou dynasty (690 CE - 705 CE) which corresponds to the exile of the Ten Lost Tribes. Also Abrahamic peoples are the only people that worship one God and forbid idol worship. — Nrtm81 05:10, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
no no, you see, Judaism was actually introduced to Israel by the Thirteenth Man, the guy who got lost while following Huangdi around in the remote Gobi deserts. Clearly, only the Chinese are smart enough to invent religions.
Just kidding. --Sumple (Talk) 09:06, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

It is unlikely. There is no mention of Jews or Israeli in the Zhou historical texts and the 1663 tablet contradicts records of earlier tablets. As far as I gather, in 尚書「舜讓於德，弗嗣。正月上日，受終於文祖。在璿璣玉衡，以齊七政。肆類於上帝，禋於六宗，望於山川，遍於群神。輯五瑞。既月乃日，覲四岳群牧，班瑞於群後。」（虞書˙舜典） Not only the worship of Heaven is mentioned, but ancestors and other deities are mentioned as well. --Yenchin 10:07, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Requirements for Featured Portal status can be found here. Ideogram 20:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


Article merger requested

Mao-tun and Mao Dun are two separate articles about the same person, differing only in romanisation. It would be great if someone could merge the two. --Sumple (Talk) 08:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll take up the challenge :-) — Nrtm81 18:33, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Moved text to Mao Dun, though there's a different text on his life, I've hidden the text in comment tags — Nrtm81 18:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Central Asia

WikiProject Central Asia has just been created. It may overlap with some articles and subjects relevant to this WikiProject (Xinjiang, parts of Mongolia, etc), so I thought I would put the word out here as well. Aelfthrytha 21:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

New Participant

We have an arbcom member as a participant. Everyone stand up straight and don't pick your nose. --Ideogram 01:29, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Or should everyone kneel and fart? Fred Bauder 03:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
*Farts because Fred Bauder says so*. Seriously, I don't think we need to treat anyone special. -- Миборовский 03:14, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
*burp* If this WikiProject is going to be on China, it might as well feel like it. --Jiang 04:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

"New articles" section?

So I've been looking through a bunch of WikiProjects and collaborations and noticeboards and such and I found that a lot of them have this "new articles" section where contributors tell the rest of the project what their newest addition to WP is and hopefully get others who are more knowledgeable in that field to chip in as well. My thinking is that such a list could foster better intra-project coordination (do I sound like some PR guy?) but it would require everyone to report their actions to the project, something that sounds vaguely Big Brother-ish. And I'm not sure if everyone is willing to take the time to add their newest additions to that list, and more importantly, I'm not sure if everyone is willing to take the time to look through that list. So should we have such a list, or should we just post here and let people know we need an article looked at? (Like, "I need you guys to take a look at Empire of China (1915-1916)!!!) -- Миборовский 07:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

good idea.
can you add some references to that so we can post it on the main page in the dyk section?--Jiang 07:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
OK, added a few refs. I really only took stuff from the ROC "diary"/annal thingy and from other pre-existing Wikipedia articles. The only other thing was the flags. -- Миборовский 08:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Don't see how it's different from WP:SG! - I guess we could report other new creations too. Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 03:05, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
this is nice so we can wikilink appropriate articles and reduce orphans. BlueShirts 19:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Where should it go then? A portion of the todo list in the project banner? On the main project page? Somewhere on this talk page? -- Миборовский 21:07, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
OK, added a tentative "new articles" section in the worklist. Everyone please check it regularly... -- Миборовский 02:30, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Taiwan vs. Taiwan Island

Edit: You can also vote for the portal name at Portal talk:Taiwan#Vote for portal name. — Nrtm81 12:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey everyone. The portal linked from Taiwan is Portal:Taiwan however there are some concerns that using "Taiwan" as the article/portal name will mislead people into thinking that Taiwan is a country.

At the portal page, there's been a suggestion to rename it to "Taiwan Island". However, I believe there should be consistency between the name of both the article and portal. Can I ask that people share their input on this issue? — Nrtm81 10:07, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

No one would use Ireland Island or Sicily Island. Fred Bauder 13:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, their sovereignty is not disputed, so adding Island clarifies that it is not a country. The name Taiwan itself is such a politically sensitive issue in the Greater China region. You Westerners and outsiders would least understand, no offense. -Chiang Kai-shek 19:02, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Adding "island" says nothing in the English language about sovereignty, neither denotation nor connotation. Fred Bauder 00:22, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, what adding "island" does say is that the article is about a natural geographical feature, not a country... -- Миборовский 02:52, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
But it's not just about a geographical feature. It is primarily about the people. the culture, and the history. --Ideogram 03:02, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
One occasionally encounters "Philippine Islands" and, of course, "The Isle of Man". The Isle of Man is not a part of the United Kingdom although it is a possession of the Queen. Generally only small islands are called something like Baffin Island. But that is a big one. Hawaiian Islands is used. And Hainan Island. Japanese Islands and New Zealand Islands is never used, but North Island and South Island. If the name contains "land", Ireland, Greenland, then island is never used. Taiwan Island simply sounds odd in English. Fred Bauder 03:30, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it is pointless to add "island". As a province it is still called Taiwan. --Yenchin 08:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

"Taiwan island" in of itself is NPOV, as it could only really be designed to belittle Taiwan's claims to sovereignty. The simple fact is that no one refers to it as "Taiwan island" - even nationalist PRC Chinese. It would be ridiculous if it was moved. John Smith's 10:32, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I think you mean it is POV, which from the initial request to move is indeed the point, "there are some concerns that using "Taiwan" as the article/portal name will mislead people into thinking that Taiwan is a country". We do need to inform the reader of the subtleties of the matter and shouldn't create the impression that they are independent or claim to be. Fred Bauder 11:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
If you have a look at Portal:Taiwan, the introduction box states the situation of Taiwan. I was hoping that this would be enough to allay any worries about people mistaking the portal as being about a country. It even goes so far as to make it clear that the ROC governs two provinces: Fujian Province (Kinmen and Matsu islands) and Taiwan Province. — Nrtm81 12:44, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Don't they have some Zhejiang islands too? Or were those abandoned? -- Миборовский 20:47, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
"台湾岛" is a common enough usage, John Smith. -- Миборовский 20:47, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
This isn't the Chinese version of wikipedia. I'm not interested if in Chinese there is a reference to Taiwan as "Mickey Mouse land". We're talking about English. In any case, when my friends (PRC) talk about it, they always say "Taiwan" and not "Taiwan island". John Smith's 17:57, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Neither is this the English/American POV version of wikipedia. "台湾岛" is commonly used to refer to Taiwan (island) in Chinese. That translates directly to "Taiwan Island". As to your PRC friends, did you know that my pro-Taidu friends also referred to Taiwan as "Taiwan Island"? ;) -- Миборовский 20:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I know people from Taiwan that would prefer Taiwan refered to as "Taiwan" and not "Taiwan Island". I really don't see why a change is necessary. John Smith's 14:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The Zhejiang islands I believe you're referring to the Dachen islands. --Yenchin 22:14, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

First of all, Taiwan IS a country. Second, it is NOT part of China BECAUSE it has its own government, flag... and also it is a democratic country. you aren't jealous of that are you? And...to answer your question: I would prefer Taiwan because it is its name already! --Jerrypp772000 18:12, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Zigong Museum Wikiproject Dinosaurs

Hi, anyone near Zigong city? I am on the Wikiproject dinosaurs and this museum looks absolutely amazing for any dinosaur buff. If anyone goes there or has photos, using them on the Zigong page (and assoicated dinosaurs) would be great..Cas Liber 01:09, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Because of the Great Firewall we don't get too many users from the mainland. >:( -- Миборовский 20:45, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Taiwan Province

I've proposed that Taiwan Province (People's Republic of China) be merged into Taiwan Province. Hopefully we can have that article be about the ROC-governed Taiwan Province and then include the history of it being a province under Qing Dynasty and Empire of Japan. Also we can cover the PRC's claim to Taiwan Province in the same article. — Nrtm81 12:48, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, that's such a good idea. Makes things much easier. John Smith's 22:29, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've just merged the content from Taiwan Province (People's Republic of China) to Taiwan Province. Anyone interested in checking the article for typos or cleanup, please do so. Thanks! :) — Nrtm81 08:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and by the way, someone pointed out that the map of Taiwan Province has an error. It's supposed to highlight Kaohsiung City as being a central municipality outside of Taiwan province, but Tainan City was highlighted by mistake. Can anyone good with a graphics editor correct the mistake? Thanks. — Nrtm81 09:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm getting tired of finding these "Richard W. Hartzell" (not a user on Wikipedia) original research based on fantasy. This pretty much covers everything under "Position of the United States". This Hartzell guy has his own website http://www.taiwanadvice.com/tw_insular4b.htm where he doesn't even cite references for his essays. When he does make mention of historical documents, nothing in them supports his claims. I don't know who added his theories onto Wikipedia but I don't know if I should just delete it or not. — Nrtm81 16:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Hartzell makes the mistake of comparing Taiwan with Puerto Rico and Cuba where the war was fought between USA and Spain. In the case of Taiwan, USA fought against Japan. The difference is that the ROC was the ally of USA so the Chinese territories were restored to the ROC. This cannot be said for Puerto Rico and Cuba after the Spanish-American War. It's a different scenario. — Nrtm81 17:17, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Complete nonsense. The information is not verifiable and does not come from a reputable source. On top of that, it is not even good original research. Fred Bauder 17:47, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I just went ahead and deleted the entire section. If the person who added that content doesn't agree, they can give their reasons why it is appropriate and provide actual evidence that supports it. I gave the reason for its deletion as being based on personal research by Hartzell. — Nrtm81 09:07, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Proposal: Chinese titles

Chinese manners of address aren't as complex as Japanese, but we could write an article on something like Japanese titles.--Jiang 10:17, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I just created the article with a few titles. — Nrtm81 12:49, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Do we have an article that includes stuff on "客套话"? It doesn't belong to Chinese titles or Chinese honorifics since they encompass more than just titles of peoples but also references to objects, concepts and actions. Examples that come to mind immediately are "寒舍", "府上", "贵庚"... It could probably go under Classical Chinese, but might be too specific for that article. -- Миборовский 22:31, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, the article Japanese honorifics seems to cover polite speech and makes no mention of honorific titles which is covered seperately in Japanese titles. I think if we follow that example, the honorific titles should be moved out of Chinese honorifics and into Chinese titles. As for personal pronouns, it should be moved into Chinese pronouns. As for 客套話, that can be included in the Chinese honorifics article since it part of polite usage in the Chinese language. What do you think? Also I found a short list of 常用客套話 here. — Nrtm81 23:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Scope of "Tibet" stub types

Please take note of this discussion on the scope of the current {{tibet-stub}}, and the proposed {{tibet-geo-stub}}. Comments welcome. Alai 06:12, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

cliques and factionalism again

The articles Anhui clique, Fengtian clique and Zhili clique has been created, but I suppose we need a article for the general term of "clique". The current article at clique doesn't seem to fit, although I've tried to expand the scope by adding something about the ROC. Would it be cliques in China? Then again, one realises warlordism in China isn't a new thing, and has existed ever since the Warring States Era. The warlord conflict in Republican China (perhaps warlordism in Republican China and a warlordism in China article, itself being a subarticle of warlord) definitely existed past the 1928.

The Chinese Civil War is generally attributed to the CPC vs KMT conflict but I wonder if we could squeeze the warlords in there too - after all, Wang Jingwei's colloborationists, the regional governors et al. all took part. Then we have things like the First Zhili-Fengtian War, so we definitel need some new "encompassing concept" articles, in addition to the individual articles we have on the era.

Well at least we have concessions pinned down. Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 04:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, not sure if I went overboard, but I've created category:warlordism in Republican China, category:warlords in Republican China, category:warlord cliques in Republican China, as well as a general category:warlordism. I might even think of category:Chinese warlords. Please populate them as necessary. Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 09:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Warlordism in China and Category:Chinese warlords are all that's necessary, I think. -- Миборовский 21:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


Wenyan wiki approved

A wenyan wiki has been approved but depending on how fast developers react to the list (not very fast, judging from the number of entries there) it might take some time for it to go online. Please keep an eye or two on it, thanks. -- Миборовский 21:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

文言維基百科創于丙戌年七夕迄今既十七文矣 -- Миборовский 05:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Remove Wade-Giles

Wade-Giles is a useless thing. Nobody uses it. To improve the quality of Wikipedia, Wade-Giles should be removed from China related articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edipedia (talk • contribs)

Descendants of Confucius

I'm looking to write articles about the descendants of Confucius (e.g. Duke Yansheng, Kung Te-cheng, List of direct lineal descendants of Confucius, etc.). How do you translate "大成至聖先師奉祀官"?--Jiang 11:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The Great Accomplished Most Sacred Teacher's Sacrificial Officer? --Sumple (Talk) 12:45, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Who's Who in Taiwan translates it as "Sacrificial Official to Confucius". Updated the article on Kung Te-cheng to reflect official and literal translations--Jiang 14:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Poetry question

I have a bit of a Romanization problem. I'm reading through Donald Keen's Travelers of a Hundred Ages, and I see the following quote in his Introduction to the Henry Holt edition (pg 4):

"Basho, modestly referring to his "shallow knowledge and inadequate talent", is sure that he will not equal the acheivements of the past, but he is determined not to confine himself to such typical diary notations as "On that day it rained...it cleared in the afternoon." Anyone can write such a diary, but unless one's style has the distinctiveness of the Chinese master Wu Shan-ku or the freshness of Su Tung-p'o, it is best not to write at all."

Now, Su Tung-p'o already has a redirect for that particular Romanization, but I can't find this "Wu Shan-ku" in Wikipedia or Google, even though if Keene's description is right, we obviously should have an article. Does anyone know who this guy is or where his article is? --Rhwawn (talk to Rhwawn) 03:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, can't help you there. -- Миборовский 23:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Articles for individual Chinese characters

I think it would be interesting to start making articles for individual Chinese characters. Obviously there's enough information for each to warrent it; the etymology alone can provide enough substance for most characters. Other information that could be included is use of the character in the various languages and how it differs, example words/phrases using the character, step by step stroke order pictures, and basically any information presented in the Wikionary articles. While the Wikionary entries are all well and fine, I think there is plenty of information to be able to make proper Wikipedia articles out of them. Anyone want to give it a shot? I can be a little help on the Japanese side of things. --SeizureDog 17:11, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

and so we end up with 10,000 new articles...? --Sumple (Talk) 13:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
just what info can be presented here that would not belong in Wiktionary?--Jiang 13:04, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, I don't think we should have Chinese articles in the titles of English Wikipedia articles. What, then, would the names of the articles be?—Nat Krause(Talk!) 18:44, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
You'd have to dab it by meaning - e.g. "Zhōng (middle)".
You know, after thinking about it, I think some characters could make okay articles. These are ones with unique cultural or linguistic significance. An example that springs to mind is Fú 福, and how it is used as a charm etc. I guess what I'm trying to say is that some characters have a story to tell beyond their meaning. --Sumple (Talk) 05:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm just something that we could test out. Try one article at first, see how much information can be put together and how good it looks. If it works out, then the project can be expanded, if not, easily scrapped. I don't think there's anyway of getting around having Chinese characters in the namespace though. Unless we want to call them something stupid like "Chinese character 4950" or something. --SeizureDog 06:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually, Fu Lu Shou could probably have a full article. -- Миборовский 23:17, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I've stubbed it. --Sumple (Talk) 23:53, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I've always thought that Fu represented an overall sense of wellbeing and blessedness rather than specifically prosperity (which is Lu)... -- Миборовский 00:23, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Its like "lucky", except not the same, because its like, predetermined. It's like "a good destiny", except you can increase your Fu-ness by doing good deeds. But it's not quite the same as Karma either. --Sumple (Talk) 00:28, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Article merger/deletion needed

Nü Kua is superfluous as Nu Wa already exists. --Sumple (Talk) 23:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Redirecti-fied as Nu Wa contains everything Nü Kua does (except funky spelling). -- Миборовский 00:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey hey hey, banners revisited

We still need a decent banner... the current one is really too plain and doesn't say much. Any brave soul willing to volunteer to make one? My artistic affinities are non-existant. -- Миборовский 00:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Noone? C'mon... We need a colorful banner or something. -- Миборовский 22:01, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Sigh... Nanking Massacre photos, again

Someone has suddenly decided to nominate pretty much every Nanking Massacre-related photo on en and commons for deletion. [1] [2]. I would really like to be spending time doing some research on Hu Zongnan to bring it to FAC instead of tug of warring ad infinitum, so if someone has the free time and energy, any help would be much appreciated. -- Миборовский 22:01, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

We (this Wikiproject) really should pay more attention to that page (Nanking massacre). --Sumple (Talk) 22:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Should we? Personally, I try not to get too involved in that black hole of controversy and devote my attention to other Second Sino-Japanese War articles. It's really unfortunate that most of the Chinese research into the war is fixated on the Nanking Massacre. -- Миборовский 22:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
No, I don't mean getting into the discussion; but keeping en eye on, say, the graphics deletions. It's been going on all year and the article's now got like, 10% of the photos it had before. --Sumple (Talk) 00:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Simply put, the current categories we have for China-related articles is in a serious mess. Convoluted, redundant, you name it. We need to have an orderly, sightly and well-defined category system. I'm currently coming up with a tentative system that should hopefully outline what I think would be an ideal categorising scheme. Suggestions would be, naturally, very much appreciated. 

By period
                China
                  |                                      
      ,-----------+-------------+------------------------.
      |                         |                        |
 Ancient China            Imperial China        Republican China
      |                         |                        |
 various dynasties       various dynasties    ,----------+---------.
                                              |                    |
                                     Republic of China   People's Republic of China    20th century
                                                                   |                    |
                                                          Cultural Revolution ----------'

An article should have a category identifying its relevant period in Chinese history, as well as the corresponding western century. For example, Cultural Revolution would be tagged with categories PRC and 20th century. For articles whose scope spans more than one category, we can tag them with the upper-level category that blankets all relevant periods (eg. Age of Fragmentation gets Category:Imperial China instead of Han, 3K, Jin, N&SD, Sui and Confucianism gets the blanket Category:China as it spans the ancient, Imperial and republican categories). 

By topic                                    Revolutions
                                                |
     Revolutions in China ----------------------'         Republican China
              |                                               |
Revolutions in republican China ------------------------------'
              |
      Cultural Revolution           People's Republic of China    20th century
              |                                    |                   |
      Cultural Revolution -------------------------+-------------------'

In addition to a period category, an article should have one or more topic categories. Cultural Revolution could theoretically get Revolutions in, Communism in, etc, as well as a Cultural Revolution category, since it is notable and detailed enough to have its own category. Now, redundancy is a problem. There weren't a lot of revolutions in PRChina, so it isn't really good to have a Category:Revolutions in the People's Republic of China populated by poor Cultural Revolution alone. So we can put Cultural Revolution in an upper category, republican China. And since revolutions as a concept only arrived recently in China, there is no need to create Category:Revolutions in ancient China. Only create an in/of/from category when it can be populated with a reasonable number of articles. In fact, we can probably forego the Revolutions in Republican China category, and put everything under Revolutions in China, though that might be a tad bit too general.

This is what I have tentatively. This scheme should be able to avoid category bloat and bad cat'ing. Is it a good idea? Crappy? Your input, please. -- Миборовский 06:15, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ma Yu

Several articles about Three Kingdoms military figures have come up for deletion. Please comment. Gazpacho 09:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Userbox goodness

I've made a userbox for this wikiproject out of boredom. It's not anything spectacular, but those who want one may use it.

  • {{Wikipedia:WikiProject China/Userbox}}

Wikipedia:WikiProject China/Userbox _dk 14:45, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Now moved into project space. --Cyde Weys 16:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Quality rating system

Not sure if you know it or not, but there is a quality rating system embedded within the {{WPCHINA}} template. It is currently not supported, but is active (meaning you can assign quality ratings to articles, but not much can be done with them). For example:

Template removed

Note that it currently interferes a bit with the todo list (just click "show") and I don't have the wikicodemonkey skillz to fix it. :S

You can visit Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment for more information on the rating system. Frankly speaking, I'm not a huge fan of it, but lots of projects seem to be using it so... Should we? Because lots of topical projects (eg. Biography, Military history) are using it, I think it might be redundant if we copycat this rating system. Your input? -- Миборовский 04:24, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh and BTW, project tagging

I'm currently tagging all the articles within [[Category:History of China]], by AWB and for non-existant talk pages by hand. This is tedious work, so if someone can spare the time to help with some of this stuff, any help is welcome. The advantages of tagging is two-fold. Firstly we can establish a numerical picture of the coverage of China-related articles in Wikipedia, secondly it allows for and facilitates future sorting and organisation. -- Миборовский 06:14, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

And many thanks to ran for finding a decent photo we can use on the project banner... :D -- Миборовский 06:14, 26 August 2006 (UTC)


FAR listing of Go (board game)

The article Go (board game) is currently on featured article review, meaning it may lose its featured status if not significantly improved. — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 17:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Questions on Shang Yang's books

I'm working on The Book of Lord Shang, by Shang Yang on Legalism. I noticed that Project Gutenberg has a work called Shangzi at http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/7383, but the translation of the Book of Lord Shang I'm working from gives the Romanized form "Shang chün shu". Are these two works the same thing, or am I wrong in thinking that only one of Shang's works has survived? (I can't read Chinese to save my life, so I'm hoping someone here will know). -- Gwern (contribs) 00:19, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

"Zi" is the honorary title given to thinkers, ie. Kong(fu)zi, Mozi, Zhuangzi, Mengzi. The collective works of these thinkers could be referred to by their names, so "Mozi" is the collective works of Mozi. In this case, I would assume "Shangzi" to be the complete (or as complete as possible) set of works by Shang Yang, though I have never heard of Shang Yang being referred to as "Shangzi". -- Миборовский 01:59, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Neither have I, thus the difficulty... Would a comparison of Gutenberg's text and a Chinese copy I found online do anything? -- Gwern (contribs) 02:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
"Shangzi" is the "colloquial" name of "Shang jun shu". So I would say that these (your book and the Gutenberg book) are one and the same. Note that the book was not exclusively written by Shang Yang - it was compiled and partly written by his disciples and disciples of disciples, as is the situation with most of the "classics". --Sumple (Talk) 02:45, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Great! Thanks, everyone. -- Gwern (contribs) 02:57, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Bonafide.hustla and pov issues

Just wanted to drop a line that patrollers here might want to look out for edits by User:Bonafide.hustla on China-related pages. The user appears to have a limited and somewhat slanted understanding of China and especially Taiwan, believing, for example, that "Singapore's culture is more Chinese than Taiwan's". --Sumple (Talk) 02:50, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Going through his contributions, I found the edit somewhat interesting: [3]. How was that edit vandalism? Isn't England part of Britain?--TBCTaLk?!? 20:42, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Bonafide.hustla (talk · contribs) has been renamed to Certified.Gangsta (talk · contribs) and continues to make POV edits to China/Taiwan-related pages. Please see his contributions for more details. RaGnaRoK SepHír0tH

Has anybody wondered

why Chinese subjects are often known by their translated "English" names but the opposite is true with Japanese subjects? Compare Forbidden City and Kokyo or Sushi and Chinese noodles or Chinese dragon and Obake? --Sumple (Talk) 12:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Because it's so hard to transliterate Chinese, and it's relatively easier to do so for Japanese? -- Gwern (contribs) 14:49, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't think much of it. After all, the there are terms like baozi, mahjong that are from Chinese, while we say.........er.......Japanese bondage instead of shibari, Japanese traditional dolls instead of ningyo, and shinto shrine instead of jinja. I think it's because some things are harder to translate, so they just left it in their original languages...like, you can't really translate sushi into a single English word or two. _dk 05:53, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Imperial consorts: mass reverts are needed

Highshines (talk • contribs) just moved a whole host of Qing imperial consort articles to obscure (Anglicized?) renderings. I just moved "Yehenala, the Empress Xiao Qin Xian" back to "Empress Dowager Cixi". In the very least, this should not be done without discussion.

All such moved by this user need to be removed--Jiang 02:46, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Seems like the Manchu names. And now there's a bunch of double redirects and such due to the moving about.And Cixi's talkpage is now a redirect to the Manchu/posthumous name talkpage, I think you missed something while moving. -- Миборовский 05:22, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

No, I was promptly reverted. I've posted notes to the users responsible, Highshines and Geisha1021 (talk • contribs), to discuss at Wikipedia talk:History standards for China-related articles. As far as I can tell, there has been no prior discussion on this.--Jiang 05:29, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I've issued a final warning to 108059 (talk ·  contribs). Please block this user if he continues to unilaterally move page be unresponsive to requests to explain his actions.--Jiang 00:42, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

It might a good idea to put a tag on the user pages of User:108059 and User talk:Geisha1021, stating that they are suspected sock puppets of User:Highshines. At the same time, we can put a notice on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding these page moves. That might send him/her a message. What do you think?--Niohe 01:25, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


Thank you Miborovsky

I would like to thank Miborovsky/Миборовский/領導同志 for creating this excellent WikiProject which has quickly attracted a large number of participants. --Ideogram 13:17, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, things are a bit slow right now... -- Миборовский 23:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Energy policy of China

Due to the importance of the suject, my own interest in energy related topics, but my lack of knowledge of China, is there anyoone in this WikiProject who would be able to make any progress on the topic of Energy policy of China? I've added a couple of items to Category:Energy in China, but that's about all I know. Energy policy of the United Kingdom may provide some ideas. See also the new Energy Portal. Your help would be appreciated... Gralo 02:36, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Request section?

Maybe we should make one in our wikiproject? I know there are the request pages but hardly anyone goes there (heck, there are no requested articles under "China"). So, maybe a request section might be useful, since they are of direct interest to our project (and not floating somewhere no one knows about)....

Now, I'm saying this because I want to see a Qiandao Lake Incident (千島湖事件) article happen but I don't know enough to translate the existing Chinese/Japanese articles and I don't know where to request it so it would get noticed, so :D _dk 23:43, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Eh. There used to be a request section, located under the expanded project banner, but that has been removed because it was "clogging up" Special:Wantedpages. (The banner transcludes each red link on each talkpage with the tag, meaning each red article gets (actual hits + number of WPCHINA tags) hits on that page.) You can still find it at Template:WikiProject China/to do, although that is pretty much an orphan page at this time. -- Миборовский 23:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Qiandao Lake Incident is now expanded. AQu01rius (User | Talk | Websites)  19:11, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Recent events

There seems to be a flurry of political activity at present, see this series of New York Times articles In Graft Inquiry, Chinese See a Shake-Up Coming China Makes Commitment to Social Harmony China Drafts Law to Empower Unions and End Labor Abuse. How should this development be handled? Fred Bauder 12:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC).

More: "China’s New Leftist" New York Times Magazine, Wang Hui (intellectual), co-editor of the influential magzine, Dushu The Times article refers to Wang as one of a Chinese "New Left". Fred Bauder 14:34, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Here's another: "China’s Corruption Inquiry Targets Beijing Leaders". Fred Bauder 13:38, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Proposed policy on Chinese name boxes

Please comment here: Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(China-related_articles)#Template:Chinese regarding the use of Template:Chinese in articles. --Jiang 09:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 15:09, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hu Che Er

Does anyone know how to properly write the name 胡車兒 in pinyin? Is it Hu Che'er, Hu Cher, or whatever...? _dk 07:53, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Since it's a name I think the "er" is not a dimunitive in this case so Hu Cheer. Although admittedly that looks wrong. :/ -- Миборовский 19:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

戰國四公子

Hello guys, I am planning to write the "戰國四公子" entry and additionally one article for each of them. But I'm not sure what English name should I use for it.. Any help? AQu01rius (User | Talk | Websites)  16:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Four Princes of the Warring States? P in princes capped to reflect that they weren't just any princes, but the four princes? -- Миборовский 19:49, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


Bad edits alert!

Certified.Gangsta (talk ·  contribs) (formerly Bonafide.hustla) has been removing the talk page header for this project from Taiwan-related articles. Please help put this to a stop. The reasons for doing so are ridiculous.--Jiang 06:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

This is strongly POV. This is implying Taiwan is part of China, which obviously is a highly controversial issue. Any addition of such should be view as POV pushing.--Certified.Gangsta 06:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The addition of this tag only implies that Taiwan-related topics are also related to China. The addition of this tag at Talk:Chinese American does not mean America is part of China. Removal at places such as Min (linguistics) is just plain ridiculous. At least read the articles you edit!--Jiang 06:51, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

If you look at the project page, this WikiProject is defined to include China, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Leave the template on Taiwan-related pages. enochlau (talk) 07:10, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Wow then this is obviously a POV pushing project. The inclusion of Taiwan implies Taiwan is part of China which is debatable not to mention highly controverisial.--Certified.Gangsta 18:48, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

This is a project about China-related topics and articles. Inclusion of the tag does not assert ownership. Jiang has already explained that. Do you have any specific complaints rather than the rude accusation that this is a POV pushing project? -- Миборовский 19:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Taiwan

Wikipedia:WikiProject Taiwan

If anyone is interested, please help it out! =) AQu01rius (User | Talk | Websites)  05:15, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Changing Hong Kong Categories to China

I left a note at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hong Kong#Changing Hong Kong Categories to China about a wholesale move of Hong Kong Categories, replacing them with PRC categories. Perhaps this has been discussed previously, but if not, please have a look. Cheers.--Bookandcoffee 18:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Four Lords of the Warring States

The article entry is now created. I'll start working on the sub-articles for each of the Four. AQu01rius (User | Talk | Websites)  00:50, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Unimpressed with Chinese Articles

I have looked at a good half dozen articles about China, and I have to tell you, I am not impressed. These Chinese articles are almost uniformly unreadable. There are few if any sections. The sentences are very long and complicated. There are completely confused and overly long paragraphs with multiple topics in each paragraph. There are no introduction. There are many different names in different scripts, stated right at the start of the article that buries the reader under a load of minutae. This makes these articles completely inaccessible to almost 99% of the readers. I have tried to improve and rearrange a couple of these chinese articles. Hopefully people will agree that they look better now and are easier for nonspecialists to read. For an example, look at the article on the Forbidden City which I worked on a bit. Do you think I am heading in the right direction? If not, we can go back to the previous style, but I would suggest that style is not near as readable. --Filll 18:14, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Can you do me a favour and list down the articles you looked at? We're aware of this problem but haven't been able to find the energy or dedication to do a WP-wide cleanup... But a list of articles in critical need of cleanup would be helpful as a start. -- Миборовский 19:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
While I do plead guilty of having further burdened some articles with multiple language names, I do see the point. For instance, I don't see any point in giving Chinese place names in both simplifed and traditional characters, since anyone who knows Chinese can easily covert from one to the other. The use of one name form in favor of another can stir up strong feelings here, as you may have noticed, and this phenomenon is by no means exclusive to China-relate articles. Take a look at İzmir or Gdańsk, for instance.
On the other hand, I believe that multiple names do have an encyclopedic value and the beauty of a Wiki is that we can create more completeness than in an ordinary encyclopedia. I think the best way out is to create boxes for multiple names, like in Yalu River and Guangzhou.--Niohe 23:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I just created a navigation side bar for WikiProject China, and organized related infomations to it. Still have a lot works to do... AQu01rius (User | Talk) 18:27, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

That's pretty cool. I'm sorry I can't do more for the project for the time being; college applications are more important. :( But after mid-Dec I should be back to normal activity... enemies of Centralia be warned!!! (j/k) :p -- Миборовский 04:19, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Should we redirect the discussion board there to the talk page in here? It's pretty inactive there =\

Anyways, I've organized the comments here to archive section according to the months. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 17:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks. The bot saves us the trouble of manual archiving. Maybe I should do that too. -- Миборовский 00:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
As for the noticeboard, that was here a lot earlier than this project so I didn't think it was appropriate to devour it. :) -- Миборовский 00:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

zh.wiki über alles, for those that care

zh.wiki recently hit the 100,000 article mark. Ten-Banzai! Or should I say, ten-ban-article? It has also been unblocked in mainland China, so jeder heil CCP!!! -- Миборовский 06:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, news link here. Also check out the rather crude 100,000th article celebratory upper left logo. -- Миборовский 06:57, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

忠義救國軍

Well, I just discovered that the father of one of my dad's colleagues was a veteran of 忠義救國軍... and I grilled him for an hour; a pity that his father had passed away. :( Anyway, I'm surprised to find there is no article either on zh.wiki or en.wiki on this very famous unit, can I interest someone to start this article? I would do it myself, but I have absolutely no idea what the English translation should be. Loyal and Righteous Army of National Salvation??? -- Миборовский 05:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Use the transliterated name (Zhongyijiuguo Army), while specifying the meaning of it in the article. That's what I think.. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 05:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Our portal

Argh, I'll be devoting sometime to improve Portal:China (should have enough things to put) and Portal:Taiwan (might be hard) into feature quality. Any help would be appreciated, as our portals are currently really basic. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 05:38, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I spent some time on these portals as well as Portal:People's Republic of China, Portal:Republic of China, and Portal:Hong Kong. The only task remaining for Feature Portal status is to create automatically updating selected article/picture content (see Portal:Hong Kong for how to do this) and create archives of same. At one per month, a year's worth of articles and pictures is enough.
The main problem is finding enough high-quality articles and pictures to feature. If you have any other questions or requests feel free to ask here or on my talk page. --Ideogram 06:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

AQu01rius has been making many changes I disagree with and has not yet responded to my comments on Portal talk:China. I would appreciate it if others would weigh in with their opinions so we can try to reach a consensus on this. --Ideogram 19:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Hai-Sha Ni

Hi China geeks, can you have a look at the page Hai-Sha Ni - there is a little debate as to whether Hai-Sha Ni meets our criteria for inclusion. --Dangherous 15:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Geeks?
Google: 10,300 hits in Chinese. Baidu: 6,640 in Chinese. Seems controversial enough for inclusion. He's got quite an army of disciples, too. I guess he would also qualify as the grandmaster of a new martial arts... I mean TCM... sect... -- Миборовский 04:11, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Anniversaries in Portals

I purposed a way to include all events related to China (PROC, ROC, Taiwan and Hong Kong) into one signle Portal Calender. It makes life easier, and increases the chances of having all China portals featured. See the calender here

AQu01rius (User • Talk) 16:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Why have orange for Taiwan but nothing for mainland China in general? How about:
  • Blue for events in all China excluding Taiwan from its formation to the proclamation of the PRC and for Taiwan from the surrender of Japan to present (eg. anniversary of the start of the War of Resistance; Retrocession Day)
  • Red for events relating to the CPC, its historical events from its formation to proclamation of the PRC and from the proclamation of the PRC to present on mainland China (eg. Shenzhou 5 launch; Mao kicks the bucket)
  • Yellow/gold/orange for pre-ROC historical events and dates (eg. birth of Emperor so-and-so; signing of this-and-that unequal treaty)
Or we can forget all of this and specify somewhere that hey, we don't give a sh*t about politics, this thing's just to record everything that happened on a particular day. -- Миборовский 23:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I really don't give a shit about politics. --Ideogram 21:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Right. Should we just record everything? AQu01rius (User • Talk) 01:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure, if you can find a way to placate the mob of Taiduers and clueless crackas who will invariably pop up to protest your calendar. -- Миборовский 15:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
The anniversaries should include all dates until October 1, 1949. After which, the dates should be dealt with in the PRC and ROC portals seperately, otherwise it raises POV problem. I agree about not giving a shit about the politics but a lot of people will start harassing Wikipedia articles over the PRC vs. ROC issue. Other encyclopedias already just list ROC entry as Taiwan, and list PRC as China. Wikipedia is probably the only encyclopedia that avoids China = PRC, Taiwan = ROC definition. — Nrtm81 22:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Chinese surnames

User:Yao Ziyuan has been putting some Chinese biography articles into Chinese surname categories. Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that, but he makes his categories with Chinese characters in them. (example: Category:Wéi (韋)) He also moved Ding (surname) to Dīng (丁). I'm under the impression that we shouldn't have non-Latin characters in article titles (and restrict using tone marks), but in this case, I'm not so sure. There are too many different Chinese surnames that sounds the same and we'd have nothing else to distinguish them if we don't use the Chinese character...

So, what can be done for this issue? _dk 07:44, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Wow, that's a good question. I'm leaning towards including the Chinese characters. --Ideogram 07:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
If we are going to have such categories, then the only way to disambiguate between different surnames is with Chinese characters. Which then brings us to the question of whether Simplified or Traditional should be used? --Sumple (Talk) 01:15, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
If that's the way we're going, then I prefer traditional Chinese since simplified Chinese merged too many things together. But then again, are such categories really necessary? Also, User:Yao Ziyuan also tried to split the Li (surname) article (which includes 李, 黎, 利, etc) but was reverted. I personally prefer a split there but I don't know...the Chinese page title issue again. _dk 02:34, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Also see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lǐ (李) (surname) _dk 02:37, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I think it's better not to have the Chinese word - some users (non-Chinese) may not have support for East Asian fonts on their computer, and then we get into the whole Simplified v. Traditional discussion again. –- kungming·2 (Talk) 22:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I tend to agree, but what other ways are there to disambiguate between the same-sounding surnames? _dk 00:29, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

A disambiguation at the Li page, then arrange each Li articles by its sound, so it'll be something like Li (1), Li (2), Li (3), Li (4). That's my opinion. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 00:34, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

We'd still have multiple surnames in one page then. For example, 李 and 里 would both be Li (3). _dk 00:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
So what? This is not Chinese Wikipedia.--Niohe 00:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
It's fine to have multiple surnames in one article, I think - most non-Chinese will not be able to differentiate between the different forms. –- kungming·2 (Talk) 00:57, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Of course this is not the Chinese wiki, I'm just concerned for the sizes of the articles if each surname gets to expand. _dk 01:01, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm praying I'll live to see the day when article size becomes a problem on China-related articles. ;) -- 我♥中國 00:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Vote for Portal:China theme color

Please visit the discussion page of Portal:China and vote for the theme color (red, yellow, etc). The vote was started to get a general concensus and an accepted color by the majority. Note that the portal is a geography portal, NOT a political portal. — Nrtm81 19:54, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. Using the exact same color as the PRC portal for the China portal is politically confusing for foreign viewers. But you supports that, hm. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 21:34, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
We could change the color of the PRC portal. --Ideogram 21:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Han Chinese vs. Hua ren / Tang Chinese

OK, recently I was editing Demographics of Taiwan until an anonymous user User talk:71.106.149.53 came along and kept removing the ethnicity chart from the page. He says Han Chinese refers to a race and not cultural ethnicity. Is that true? (I thought it IS cultural meaning). He says it is propaganda by PRC and that 華人 or 唐人 is actually the term that is cultural and not refering to race. What does everyone think? I think it's important enough to warrant attention since Han Chinese is used almost everywhere when dealing with Chinese people of different ethnicities (Hakka and Hoklo people for example) --— Nrtm81 04:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I seem to be posting everywhere. I'm not sure if people here also check the WikiProject Taiwan, but just to inform everyone, I uploaded a newer version of the image replacing "Han Chinese" with just "Chinese". I dunno what all the fuss is over the usage of Han Chinese, but it seems just "Chinese" is more neutral a term to use. — Nrtm81 23:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
According to the official PRC theory "汉族" is one of the 56 "民族" that populate China. I've never heard of Han being called a culture (汉族文化). My understanding has always been that there is no Chinese race due to millennia of population migration, there is only a Chinese culture that holds together disparate groups that may not have that much in common genetically. -- 我♥中國 07:52, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Proposal for daughter projects

Shouldn't we have division of labour and divide the whole project (which has a lot of participants of different expertises) so there will be more focus? Such as Chinese politics/cultures/geography/languages, which can also be co-listed under the projects for politics/linguistics/cultures/geography as well as the China project? Shingrila 05:30, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Personally I'm opposed to this. We do NOT have a lot of participants, and as a group, we're not very active. So it's important that all of us can have one place to meet, discuss and socialise, instead of several different places where initiatives can easily die of neglect and underpopulation. -- 我♥中國 07:44, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
71 is quite a lot, compared with many other projects. Maybe one of the reasons why the project isn't very active is people don't know where to start or they do not know what areas to focus on. This project lacks focus and does not allow for division of labour. And "to improve all China-related articles" says just as much as "to improve Wikipedia". Wouldn't "all China-related articles" seem to be too big? And I find your idea of socialising on Wikipedia very creative, apparently a lot of people came here to do that Shingrila 16:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
I'll start working on dividing this China project into sub-categories (Arts, Politics, Roads etc.). AQu01rius (User • Talk) 20:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't feel subprojects are necessary. --Ideogram 20:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Unless you're a bot, I don't think you can survive on Wikipedia without social interactions. 71 members is not a lot, considering the wide scope of this project. Given that most China-related articles and topics are pretty absymally written, it's not a wise choice to foster further division when we don't even have a decent crop of articles to start with. -- 我♥中國

Taiwan Discussion Board

Wikipedia:WikiProject Taiwan now has a new navigation template (based on WikiProject China). Please click on the Discussion board to discuss everything and any issue that is directly Taiwan-related. — Nrtm81 00:39, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Workgroups & Departments

I've been working on developing workgroups and departments for WikiProject China. Check to see how it is!

I also upgraded our project banner to a more advanced system (See here). AQu01rius (User • Talk) 19:56, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

By the way, I redesigned the China-related topics notice board (Previous version) AQu01rius (User • Talk) 20:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
The redesigned noticeboard and banner look good. However, I'm not sure if the departments are a good idea. Many of the same departments for WP:MILHIST got mothballed after a while because they were not really that active and did not generate enough traffic/activity to occupy its own page. We should make sure a department is sustainable, before making any. -- 我♥中國 01:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, let me break it down:

  • Assessment - This is what we've been doing the whole time. Shouldn't have problem.
  • Cartography - This one may have problems. However, shouldn't be a problem for having it, as it may encourage users to get started on drawing more maps for China-related articles.
  • Collaboration - It's an existing page. Once everything's set, we may setup a bot that will notify members of WPCHINA weekly to come participate in the COTW discussions. It's not a priority right now though.
  • Peer review - This was intergrated within the new project banner. I think it will encourage more discussions from users.
  • Translation - A lot tasks to do. Should be able to generate enough activity.

AQu01rius (User • Talk) 00:56, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

New article

Just created the stub China National Ethnic Song and Dance Ensemble. Any additions would be welcome, of course! --Fang Aili talk 17:06, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


Chinese Civil War

I've been going through articles like Battle of Yijiangshan and Battle of Nanri Island, both conflicts between the PLA and the ROCA after 1950. I'm wondering if they can be considered part of the Chinese Civil War as well? The Chinese Civil War page states "full-scale war April 1927 — May 1950;" so I'm not sure. _dk 03:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

They are definitly considered as part of the Chinese Civil War. As noted, from 1927 - 1949 is the full scale war, but the war was not declared over until 1991 (when the cross-strait relations was temporally relaxed). AQu01rius (User • Talk) 17:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
There was no declaration of war per se so no declaration of um, war over either. -- 我♥中國 19:27, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, I merely pointed out what's noted on the article page. It's very reasonable, as an official ending to the April 12 Incident, which is consider to be the starting point of the Civl War. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 20:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, I think that in Taiwan the "Temporary Martial Law During the Communist Bandit Rebellion" or something like that was ended in 1991 so that's probably what the article is referring to. -- 我♥中國 00:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Sun Ji

May someone verify who is he? someone related to Sun Ce (孫策) and may be 孫紹.

Also please also disambiguation with the Chinese footballer. (孫吉) Matthew_hk tc 04:26, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

According to the information given, he is 左將軍孫冀. I cannot find him in the actual historical records however, and can only find one line related to him in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Most likely it's a fictional character. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 05:41, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
While we're on this topic, I suspect the article's copyright status, along with many other Three Kingdoms biography articles. Their creator, User:Darin_Fidika, doesn't really have a clean record in copyright infringements (as seen from his talk page) and he admits to have taken most of the info from the game Romance of the Three Kingdoms X. Most of these articles also confuse fact with fiction. Many of his creations concerning Japanese samurai has been deleted for the same reasons and I don't know whether we should nominate his Three Kingdoms articles for deletion as well. _dk 06:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Ocotpus card FAR

Octopus card has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.

Sandy (Talk) 00:59, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Chinese dragon robes

I have begun research into the kings of Ryukyu, and have come across the interesting bit of information that kings of Ryukyu and Korea were the only ones outside of China to wear a particular type of very special ceremonial "dragon" court robes, and in the case of Ryukyu they only wore them when receiving or meeting with Chinese officials. I'm afraid I do not know the Chinese name for these robes, or too much more about them. But, if an article exists describing them, I'd be curious to read it, and to know its title so I can properly link to it; if such an article does not exist, I'd like to propose its creation, though I'm afraid I cannot contribute much to that. Thank you for any help you can offer. LordAmeth 01:46, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Surprisingly (or not) there is no article on dragon robes in either the en or zh Wikipedia... Anyway, dragon robes were the special golden robes that only the emperor of China could wear (anyone else caught wearing gold-colored clothing would lose his head). For that reason, this is probably not the dragon robe worn by the Ryukuan and Korean emissaries you mentioned... -- 我♥中國 03:58, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. And I love how you sign your name differently on different WikiProjects and such; very cute. Just to clarify what I was talking about, in case you're interested. "Mongol precedents established that five-clawed-dragon designs were reserved for imperial robes, and four-clawed-mang-dragon designs were proper for nobles and high officials. Bolts of mang-dragon cloth were sent to foreign tributaries. Only the Kings of Korea and Ryukyu appear to have worn the 'dragon robes' in the Chinese style, and this only for the reception of Chinese imperial envoys." (George Kerr, Okinawa: the History of an Island People, p477.) LordAmeth 10:48, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
No, I think that's how I'm gonna sign my name until I get bored of it. I'm not sure about the "Mongol precedents", but I assume it's saying that the Mongols/Yuan brought with them these Chinese dragon robes when they conquered Korea. But then I doubt I can argue with a published author, haha. -- 我♥中國 00:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Requesting help from this wikiproject

Hello. I've been working on List of haunted locations. One of the problems with that article is systemic bias. There are lots of entries for the U.S., several for places in Europe; but before yesterday there was only one for anyplace in Asia. WikiProject Japan was helpful, and there are now two entries for Japanese locations and one for someplace in Indonesia; but we still don't have any information on allegedly haunted places in China or Taiwan. If anyone has any information and wouldn't mind heading over to that article and adding sourced information on haunted locations in China or Taiwan (or anyplace else for that matter) it would be appreciated. Alternatively, you could do what WikiProject Japan did and just point me towards whatever Wikipedia article talks about the Chineese view of returning spirits and haunting and I'll at least know where to start looking. Thank you! ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs) 20:17, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

This is very interesting. I will do some research and help out on the "haunted locations" in Taiwan/China! (There should be a lot, because I recall some of them from books and TVs). AQu01rius (User • Talk) 19:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Thank you! ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs) 17:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Isn't that pretty much every cemetery and HOUSE in CHINA??? You know, your ancestors will return some times to watch over your family. Offer them good food and stuff during the Ghost Festival, and they'll be at your house to chase away other ghosts when the gates of Hell open. That's the theory, at least. -- 我♥中國 00:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Goguryeo-Sui Wars

Full discussion in Talk:Goguryeo-China wars.

Yug has renamed Goguryeo-Sui Wars to Goguryeo-China Wars, because he wants to include later Tang-Silla invasions of Baekje-Goguryeo, which I think is really a separate war. It doesn't make sense, because if you call it Goguryeo-China Wars, the article should include all wars between Goguryeo and China, including the wars against the Four Han Colonies, all the way through Goguryeo's fall. The article as-is, is not about that, it's really about the war between Goguryeo and the Sui Dynasty, which itself is a major, specific topic that should have its own article. If he wants to create another article on the Tang-Silla invasions of Baekje-Goguryeo, that's fine, but don't hijack an existing article on a different topic. Please see and say what you think about it. Thank you. OpieNn 19:45, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I seen It. I suspect Pro-korean position but that also may be an user with more kwoledge than me. Please go to the main talk page. Every opinion are welcome. Yug (talk) 20:02, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:24, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

My article needs a rating from your project

A long while ago, someone from your project put your banner on my Jow Tong article. I know ratings up to "B-class" really don't need a vote like "GA" or above, but I'd rather someone other than myself rate the page's quality. Be truthful and leave a comment on the talk page of why you gave it the certain rating. I have also put in a request for it to be peer reviewed on your peer review page. Thanks. (Ghostexorcist 21:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC))

Amazing work! Wow...! I'll read the article and help on reviewing it. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 03:09, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 15:12, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Portal:Roads

The World Roads Portal is at Peer Review, if any editors know of any articles, images, news items or DYKs which could be added to the Portal, please add them directly to the portal or contact ....SriMesh | talk 19:10, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Merge this project (Transportation in China) to WP:CHINA

See WT:CHINA for the discussion. 65.94.45.160 (talk) 07:36, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Proposal to geotag all highway articles

There is currently a proposal to modify WT:RJL to allow geotagging of highway articles in the junction lists, at specified important points along the route. Your input is welcome. --Rschen7754 03:45, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

RFC on coordinates in highway articles

There is currently a discussion taking place at WT:HWY regarding the potential use of coordinates in highway articles. Your input is welcomed. --Rschen7754 01:34, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Merger of Template:China line

Just a note to page watchers that Template:China line has been nominated for merging with Template:Rail-interchange; the discussion is here. Jc86035 (talk • contribs) Use {{re|Jc86035}} to reply to me 14:38, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

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