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Outdated Radial and Circumferential Roads road alignments

Hi, I've noticed that there's been an inconsistency with the radial road and circumferential road alignments posted by the MMDA in some tweets and memorandums and in JICA studies (page 71).

On the ten articles on radial roads, seven articles on circumferential roads, and the List of roads in Metro Manila article, the source cited for the road alignment is a map of the alignments and list of their component roads from a really old (presumably early 2000s) slide deck from the DPWH Urban Roads Project Office.

Now, there does not appear to be any prominent or easily accessible source for current and updated alignments of the roads. So I filed a FOI request to the DPWH for this, and the DPWH Highways Design Section under the Planning and Design Division mailed me a map that confirms that the alignments in the old slide deck are outdated, thereby making all of the mentioned articles outdated. I also talked with an engineer from that office, who also clarified that between them and the MMDA, there are sometimes some inconsistencies with the alignments. Regardless, I think we can treat that DPWH map as the most official source on this.

Interestingly enough, due to the technical nature of the topic, the top results for all search queries about the radial roads and circumferential roads are the Wikipedia articles themselves. So it's necessary that we correct this.

So here are the current steps needed:

1. Update the SVG overview map of the radial and circumferential roads made by User:Howard the Duck

2. Update the actual 10 radial road articles, 6 circumferential road articles, and the List of roads in Metro Manila article to refer to the roads in the correct alignment

3. Update other road articles that were formerly or incorrectly labeled as part of the alignment or not included in the alignment

4. Update any other articles mentioning the radial and circumferential roads (less priority?)

Would appreciate any comments or thoughts on this. Thank you! Ganmatthew (talk • contribs) 14:37, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

One thing I've noticed with the FOI map is that the roads terminate at the boundary of NCR, whereas Wikipedia assumes these continue outwards to the provinces. Is this the interpretation of DPWH? —seav (talk) 17:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, it seems like that's the case. But I think that makes sense since they are radial and circumferential roads of Metro Manila after all. DPWH says this is supposed to be the interpretation followed by both DPWH and MMDA though as mentioned, sometimes there are inconsistencies. Ganmatthew (talk • contribs) 04:02, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
That map that I did must be updated by someone who is better than me at graphics. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:57, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
I've decided to have a go at it. I recreated the map based on the new DPWH alignment while mostly sticking to the old design. Check it out here.
Some notes:
  • This map uses @Adkranz's map of Metro Manila with the text edited out and in grayscale territory colors.
  • The map will be a SVG file for easy editing and updating. The map background, however is a PNG image.
  • I traced the roads by overlaying the DPWH map on top of the Metro Manila map and adjusting it until the borders matched as closely as possible. As such, there might be a few areas with less accurate borders, segment locations, etc.
  • The map also includes the C-5 Southlink Expressway for C-5, and the current segments of C-6, which were not added yet to @Howard the Duck's map.
  • The map uses dotted lines to denote roads that used to be classified under the network but are no longer classified as such in the current alignment (particularly those outside of the Metro Manila borders).
    • Might consider removing the Pasig Line-Kalayaan Avenue dotted segments for R-4 if it looks too cluttered.
  • Will definitely tweak the font colors and adjust the background for better color contrast.
  • Might also consider compressing the image vertically so the image won't take up too much space.
Feedback is much appreciated. Thanks! Ganmatthew (talk • contribs) 23:52, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
Would it be better if the map includes all of the major roads, not just the R-/C-# numbered ones so we'd have a relative idea on how they connect to each other? Howard the Duck (talk) 17:42, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
I thought of that too, though I'll have to do that when I have more time lol Ganmatthew (talk • contribs) 07:15, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
Update. I filed a FOI request a few days ago to the MMDA for their version of a map of radial and circumferential roads, which I had to pick up at their headquarters. The map they gave me however was basically the same as the DPWH map (and in fact looks like they copied the colors of @Howard the Duck's map lol). This is inconsistent however with the table data they have on their AADT reports and this tweet.
I brought this up with the Traffic Engineering Center, and they explained to me that apparently the DPWH and the MMDA have different classifications for radial and circumferential roads because of their different mandates. Basically, the DPWH version consists of both major and minor roads for network inventory, while the MMDA version is only major roads, which is where they exercise jurisdiction. This is also applicable to the list of roads where they plan on enacting a ban on e-bikes and e-trikes.
So with that, for the summary road maps, I'll make two maps: one based on the DPWH data and one based on the MMDA data. Then for the radial and circumferential road articles, the route sections will be based on DPWH data, while including a section for the MMDA's version.
For citations:
  • Route sections would cite the MMDA map with DPWH data from the MMDA FOI request [1];
  • MMDA jursidiction sections would cite this tweet [2] which shows areas where the MMDA's number coding policy is in effect.
Ganmatthew (talk • contribs) 11:27, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
Here are the finished maps for preview, with the following contents: link to folder
  • DPWH network map
  • DPWH network map + expanded with former segments
  • MMDA jurisdiction map
Each has a version with transparent background and white background. Let me know if there's any more feedback on this. Thanks! Ganmatthew (talk • contribs) 17:32, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
I suppose we should follow just one, and I'd suggest to follow DPWH's version of it. Frustratingly, DPWH's version of roads have all such roads end in NCR, so we won't see R8 extending all the way to NLEX in Pampanga, R9 all the way to Ilocos Norte, R2 all the way to Tagaytay, R3 all the way to Pagsanjan. Apparently though, R4 ends in Pateros (presumably in the Taguig Makati-Bridge, R5 is aligned with Ortigas Avenue now and not with Shaw Boulevard when I made that map, and R8 ends in NLEX toll plaza, then a spur goes all the way to Novaliches up to the bridge with Bulacan just up to the Caloocan border (LOL). Howard the Duck (talk) 20:05, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
If we're using the expanded version I made, the parts outside of Metro Manila could be included under those expanded sections, as a way of showing that it was formerly considered to be part of the network.
As for the MMDA data, my main argument for having the MMDA map and the MMDA jurisdiction sections on the articles is to avoid confusion with the MMDA's totally different classifications of radial and circumferential roads which it uses to enforce traffic laws on what it only considers as major roads.
Or it could be a subsection of the Metropolitan Manila Development Authority article instead. Ganmatthew (talk • contribs) 05:47, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Map of Radial and Circumferential Roads in Metro Manila". eFOI Philippines. Retrieved March 8, 2024.
  2. ^ MMDA Resolution No. 16-12-A (Map). Metropolitan Manila Development Authority. Retrieved March 8, 2024 – via Twitter.

Pinacanauan

I initiated a discussion for Talk:Pinacanauan River for a disambiguation. I would have loved to make a WP:BOLD edit but I am not sure if COI and WP:OR applies to me because I live there. Feel free to provide input. Borgenland (talk) 07:13, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

To be fair, WP:COI only refers to writing about something in which you have a personal, religious, political, academic, legal, or financial relationship with. So I think just being a resident of the area its in doesn't really count as conflict of interest.
Also, I'm not familiar with the rules on disambiguation pages, but most I've seen don't usually use sources, so I think WP:OR doesn't apply there anyway. Ganmatthew (talk • contribs) 17:35, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
For the dab concern. I think it's not yet that much of an issue since we only have one article with the name. In case there would be new Pinacanuan River articles in the future you can use Eagle River dab as possible model. --Lenticel (talk) 22:24, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
I agree with Ganmatthew's assertion regarding WP:COI only referring "to writing about something in which you have a personal, religious, political, academic, legal, or financial relationship with." I tend to think you should just WP:BE BOLD in this case. I left a note on the talk page suggesting a search for more sources (and I fixed an existing deadlink). Hope this helps. - Chieharumachi (talk) 00:27, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Biography for Odette Quesada

With her having an upcoming concert in the US in April for her 40th anniversary since her music debut, maybe someone can help creating an article for Odette Quesada. Just the first of our missing 80s OPM acts we want to be covered here (not only a singer, but also a songwriter for other 80s classic OPM acts). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 00:29, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Any interested editor who can help create this? TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 18:54, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
I have no idea why no one is willing to take on this and other missing articles about OPM artists. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 20:51, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Am a fan. Willing to help, but OPM is not my main editing thrust. My contributions may be slow. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 01:10, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
I've made a stub. I will improve it but maybe many others wish to contribute. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 01:48, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

On "forgotten" OPM artists/bands

(tl;dr) We already have a music task force in its beginning, but I would like to ask again anyone here about the many "forgotten" OPM artists and bands we currently have. This includes acts we previously have an article but got deleted (and is desirable for recreation) such as of Gino Padilla, Jerome Abalos, Jireh Lim etc., and acts we're completely missing articles for such as of Flippers, Rainmakers, Coritha, Jeremiah, Rockstar, Men Oppose, Orient Pearl, Grin Department, Janine Teñoso etc. There was much effort on people such as Regine, Angeline Quinto, Ben&Ben, SB19 and Sarah G. by creating high-quality coverage for them, but we need to look at some past acts we have forgotten because we don't or have lost articles for them. Taking this discussion here so to have a wider audience.

I have been reading through the archives of Tambayan lately, and I'll agree we have a deep underrepresentation of OPM artists here, especially pre-Internet acts. We already got the other famous Manila sound acts such as APO, VST, Boyfriends and Cinderella, but we still don't have a page for people like Coritha or the Flippers. We have most famous late 70s 80s and 90s classic OPM acts (Basil Valdez, Joey Albert, Donna Cruz, Regine, Gary V., Martin Nievera, Smokey Mountain, Ogie, Rodel Naval, Tootsie, almost most Pinoy rock bands at its peak, etc.), but we forgotten people like Odette Quesada, Jam Morales, Jerome Abalos, Gino Padilla, Men Oppose, Rockstar etc. Particularly for the latter two bands, makes wonders. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 08:27, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

gah, I think the deletions of articles for people like Bugoy, Gino Padilla, etc. has to do with this WT:Tambayan Philippines/Archive 38#Many AFDs by the same nominator?. Someone may want look into their undeletion, given they were controversial. Unfortunately, the likes of have been deleted because we weren't able to rescue them. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 09:39, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
That the editor in question was found to be a sock should have been reason enough to restore. Borgenland (talk) 15:31, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
I just dug through the list of archived PH-related AfDs, and I'll clarify the article of Bugoy was the only one deleted via AfD, as part of controversial string of deletiob discussions by that now-banned user. Others were deleted as unsourced almost-empty stubs (they could have helped from expansion and sourcing); those could be good targets for something like the Asia 10,000 challenge. should be easy to recreate the ones deleted, but we may want to take on the acts that we still have no articles.
Gah, why no one created an article for bands like Men Oppose, Rockstar or Orient Pearl, while we're able to have articles for soft rock band contemporaneous to those such like True Faith, Neocolours and Introvoys? And also why no article for 70s/80s acts like Odette, Coritha and so on? That makes me think they were not given WP coverage because their names were forgotten in history though their songs may still be memorable. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 20:00, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Unfortunately we can't make decent articles based on nostalgia alone (See the Tropical Hut AfD for how much of a struggle that is). Anyways, if the band has notable albums that reached Gold/Platinum status, still conduct tours or more morbidly recent deaths then you can usually scrounge up some refs off Google News Archives or existing online news portals. Don't expect high quality articles though with existing online sources though. Expect more of a barely passing GNG Start quality like my edit Aegis. --Lenticel (talk) 02:36, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
@Lenticel maybe that helps, but I'm no longer into new article creation. That said, I think we still need more coverage of classic OPM acts particularly 70s to 90s. Sourcing should go beyond webpages (would appreciate attempts to look into contemporaneous newspapers where archived in the Net, and magazines). I'm still wondering: why no one dare create article for the likes of Coritha (60s), Flippers (70s), Odette (80s), Men Oppose and Rockstar (90s) etc?
(PS, I already posted a request to have an article for Odette to be created? Wait until death is not good)
Pinging in @Borgenland @Sanglahi86 as well (aren't you batang 90s?). Batang 80s editors may also be interested. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 02:32, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
I’ll try though I haven’t made a bio about a singer before. The one thing I know about Coritha though is that she supported Marcos in 1986. Borgenland (talk) 03:52, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
@Borgenland: Also don't forget the new task force for PH music. You may want to sign yourself up there.
Hmmm, you may want to look into missing 90s OPM acts, such as Men Oppose, Rockstar, Jeremiah, Lloyd Umali, Orient Pearl, Grin Department, Rizal Underground, etc. well I think 80s and 90s OPM acts have the biggest gap in coverage, even if we still hear songs from that era. 70s acts (esp those of Manila sound) are fine by me, but still missing the likes of Flippers and Mimi (and others?). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 04:11, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Correction, it was Florante who was the Marcos loyalist. Anyway, I have found some nice base articles for Coritha.
Borgenland (talk) 08:38, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
I have not created any bio article either. I can only help by listing some missing notable artists if I find some, or by adding some sources to existing articles. Sanglahi86 (talk) 12:20, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
@Borgenland Can you look into the missing 90s OPM acts as well, especially the likes of Rockstar, Men Oppose and Jeremiah? I have my thoughts these became forgotten because they're only popular during the early 90s before disappearing from the spotlight (though their music still receives significant airplay from OPM-oriented radio stations).
The missing articles are well too much for me; it's baffling why they don't have articles yet and no one's eager to create them. Also pinging in @Titopao (not sure if you're batang 80s/90s, but I would appreciate your take on OPM acts we badly need articles here). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 18:03, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
I’ll try. Though honestly it’s the first time I’m seeing these names. Borgenland (talk) 18:06, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
@Borgenland honestly, I just only first found out of those artists and bands from listening for weeks to classic OPM through Spotify, as well as OPM songs featured on Everybody Sing. just did WP searches here as reader, only to find out some of the OPM acts I "discovered" don't have articles yet, more so when I selected their red links as logged-in user: some were deleted (e.g. Jam Morales, Gino Padilla, Jerome Abalos, Jireh Lim, Bugoy Drilon), others don't have article yet (e.g. Coritha, Flippers, Odette Quesada, Men Oppose, Rockstar, Lloyd Umali, Orient Pearl, Mark Carpio, Janine). that all revealed what is a big gap in OPM coverage here in en-wp, in particular 80s-90s OPM acts. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 02:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
I'm completely intrigued by this gap we have in the coverage of OPM acts. Why not create the missing ones articles? Do we have some kind of bias, towards more known acts, towards acts that continued into the Internet age? Did we set the bar too high? Especially in regard to the acts whose articles got deleted, why not rescue their article if the act in question deserves an article? The gap in coverage of OPM acts is what driven me into setting up the PH music task force: to improve coverage not only of OPM, but anything about Philippine music. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 18:45, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

In cases where it's difficult to create new articles right away, maybe we can organize redirects? There are articles like Protest music against the Marcos dictatorship, Pinoy rock and Manila sound which document broad groups of music acts. - Chieharumachi (talk) 07:56, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

19th Infantry Battalion

Hello all. The 19th Infantry Battalion has a notability tag "for events", probably because majority of the article covered the 2010 Leonardo Co incident until recently. I have attempted to improve it with news of things such as unit reassignment. Is it still not notable? Thanks. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 01:06, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

  • I removed notability and stub tags. This is a battalion level organization with a history, and sources, so it should be assumed to be notable enough. You see articles on US military units all the time, not all are "notable" the way a singer/dancer/politician are, but if it is a major component, I think there shouldn't be an issue of inclusion as long as some sourcing is provided. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 02:44, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks. Dennis Brown! - MistahPeemayer (talk) 08:05, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Suggested coordinates for Philippine congressional districts

Several Philippine congressional districts articles in Cleanup listing (such as Agusan del Norte's 1st congressional district) are currently tagged with {{Coord missing}}. I have checked Maine's 1st congressional district and its coordinates point to a generic/arbitrary location in a forest. Should we also do the same for Philippine congressional districts? Or maybe place the coordinates at the center of the territorial extent, or near a town hall, etc.? Sanglahi86 (talk) 13:24, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Congressional, and legislative in general, districts are not strictly "places". If you'd ask me these should not have coordinates at all; locator maps, yes, coordinates that limit it to a pinpoint on a map, no. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:12, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
I was also thinking of removing them before until I saw the Maine article counterpart. If no one objects, I will then begin removing the tags from them. Sanglahi86 (talk) 14:21, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Epal main image was deleted at Wikicommons

Hello, I have an issue about File:Epal tarpaulin sample.png, the main image for epal (politics). I've been told to discuss about it here in the English Wikipedia before continuing on the undeletion request.

I don't have the copy of the file. But the gist of the image is it is a mock poster of an epal poster with a fictional local politician with a fictional town seal and personal emblem. The only derivative file is an AI-generated image of a woman uploaded at Commons under a free license.

My rationale is that I made the image so we can't just use a photo of a real epal poster of a local politician who is (unlucky) enough to have their poster uploaded under a free license at Commons like File:0041jfSan Miguel Ildefonso Bulacan Welcome arch sign Roadsfvf 35.jpg - I believe it would be WP:UNDUE to have Congresswoman Lorna Silverio and town Ildefonso Mayor Carla Galvez-Tan's poster as the main image for that article just because that's the only few image we have at Commons when hundreds of other local politicians engage in the same practice. It is borderline libelous too since the whole nature of the article is in a negative context.

I know WP:NOTCENSORED exist but it doesn't mean that we can't do editorial decisions to maintain WP:NPOV such as using a poorer image for Apollo Quiboloy for the infobox image rather than the clearer FBI mug shot as his main image.

So the goal is to have a consensus here. If its alright to use such kind of mock poster here. The poster was clearly labeled as a mockup before it was deleted. They are adamant that due to the poster being fictional (and not actual in use in real world despite simulating an epal poster in real life) it is out of scope.

Frankly, I've been talking to a brick wall over there and has been in communication with users who lack the necessary context on what epal is or even hear out and weigh my rationale.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 01:19, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Aren't political posters "works of art" which can be copyrighted? I suppose a photo of several posters in one place works, but that's not what being epal means, moreso on an election campaigning context.
Also, it's actually a bad idea to have a fake image... I can probably get behind a photo of a fake poster though. Howard the Duck (talk) 02:03, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Maybe use a PD photo of Jimbo Wales or someone more fitting for an example poster? Blake Gripling (talk) 05:53, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Yeah this is what I was thinking. Make a real poster showing Jimbo greeting someone Happy INC anniversary day. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:03, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
The aforementioned deleted file is of an AI-generated woman, who could reasonably pass as Filipino. An image of Wales is even more of a bad idea. What if I can have the file undeleted and replace the image of a silhouette instead? Sacrificing a bit of "immersion" for the lack of better term.
For copyright political posters, government signages would fall under works by the LGU, especially if it's some signage for a LGU project.
Unless we can gain some consensus here, a new mock poster would get risked being deleted again for "out of scope".Hariboneagle927 (talk) 13:20, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Self-censorship is bad; can we not do silhouettes, pixelized photos, black bars on faces? Why are people suggesting this? There are plenty ways to do this without doing that: like for example, on a banner that's just text with a face of the politician, for Commons purposes, a photo of just the text itself would work. Why not take a photo of such a way where the face of the politician is obscured, while leaving out his name and the message?
An AI image of a fictional woman who can pass off as a Filipino woman is bad. Posters of any kind that are made by other people who are not the uploaded are "art works" of that person/s and maybe not fit for Commons usage. An actual printed out poster of Jimbo greeting someone "Happy INC anniversary day", created by the uploader, while fictional, existed in the real world. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:20, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
The difference of an actual printed poster you guys are suggesting are essentially the same as a flat digital copy except someone spent time and resources to have such poster printed out of "the real world". What am I suggesting is not censorship in itself, the fundamental issue is still the same except that Commons users are less likely to tag such media for deletion since it is more "real".
If I somehow retrieve the original file is to have a silhouette over where the likeness of Maria Dela Cruz should be - there is no actual person being censored to begin with its more of a placeholder.
I am not on board of the idea of using an actual unrelated living person as a placeholder (non-copyright issue such as personality rights applies not unlike using photos of celebrities in advertising they are not an official endorser of) hence why the AI image was there in the first place, Commons have Template:PD-algorithm for such type of works. Though admittedly in retrospect, that's one of another gray areas when it comes to AI-generated content.
This is not what I'm putting forward, though if we decide to use something like File:0041jfSan Miguel Ildefonso Bulacan Welcome arch sign Roadsfvf 35.jpg, yeah blurring the faces is a no go.
We are getting off-topic. I just noticed that I am only the other major contributor in that article and there's a good chance that none of the other users in the thread has seen the actual digital poster to have sufficient context for the original scope of this conversation. My bad for not saving a backup. I am not going to press more on the issue as before after this.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 23:52, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

List of reportedly haunted locations in the Philippines

I know it's too early for Undas but I started expanding the list out of boredom and frustration that most of the good spots mentioned were concentrated in Metro Manila and Baguio. Feel free to contribute with sources, especially for provinces that aren't mentioned here yet.

PS: I stayed up until 4 am in my first expansion while playing loud music as a contingency measure. Borgenland (talk) Borgenland (talk) 06:48, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

@Borgenland you wanted some real haunting experience while editing ah 😅 just kidding.
Anyway, kindly add the name of authors of sources if applicable. Sources with authors tend to give more weight than sources with no authors. Consider that we should not endorse more wild aspects of hauntings as per WP:FRINGE. (Note that I was the article creator when I was still an IP user, in an attempt to split it off from List of reportedly haunted locations#Philippines). I tried to do the same for Bangladesh but I got warned of violating FRINGE policy (yet the problematic content was already existing at List of reportedly haunted locations#Bangladesh before I made the split). JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 10:56, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
As much as possible, I've tried to summarize what type of ghosts exist and add additional detail only if it is indeed notable enough for the entry. And I've been trying to find sources with collective statements and not just claims by one individual. Borgenland (talk) 11:02, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
Also, can anyone read Visaya news sources? I also keep running into some ghost stories from down south but couldn't incorporate them az an unfluent Northern Luzon person. Borgenland (talk) 15:00, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Western musical acts and songs better known in PH

(this may be a question for the music task force talk, but better bringing it up here as it's focused on PH music).

Well, I would just want to bring up another music-related matter. We just tackled the issue with gaps in coverage of OPM acts, but now, I'll take on Western (non-Filipino) acts and songs that are known in the Philippines but not in the West (much like the Big in Japan acts). Any idea if there is any pre-Internet Philippine music charts we can use to substantiate such claims? I just see some number one in the Philippines claims on such cases but there's no reference to prove this. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 05:28, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

The such only acts I could think of so far are the late Keith Martin, David Pomeranz and Stephen Speaks, and given how info on Filipino pop culture before the Internet became pervasive here it's a bit of a stretch to find out who topped the charts. Blake Gripling (talk) 07:04, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
@Blakegripling ph Other Western acts better known in PH but not in the West are Fra Lippo Lippi and Michael Learns to Rock (not just a PH hit, also was popular in other parts of Asia such as Hong Kong, Indonesia, Singapore, etc). For songs, well, you can think of Till Death Do Us Part (White Lion, which otherwise has a chart-topper on Billboard) or "(I Was) Dying Inside to Hold You (Timmy Thomas, became popular in 90s), or the solo songs of Russell Hitchcock of Air Supply (which otherwise has chart-topping hits on Billboard) such as "I Can't Believe My Eyes".
(for me, just listening to those somewhat makes me cringe. better listen to artists that haven featured on Billboard or UK singles charts). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 21:55, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
Maybe there should be good historical Philippine music charts archived elswehere, but yes, it's another mountain we have to climb.
Well, with a good chart before Billboard's Philippine chart, we could also have list articles for songs that topped the charts for years before them. Aside from that, we could also develop a list of artists that topped PH charts (both Filipino and Western). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 22:02, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
  • This is going to be hard to source. First, you are really talking about singles that CHARTED higher, which isn't exactly the same as "more popular". "My Way" is more popular in the Philippines than the US, but I bet it charted higher in the US, for example. "Popularity" is hard to define. "Better known", the same. Every Christmas song ever made is played 4x more in the Philippines, making them "more popular", because they start playing them on Sept. 1st each year, so that muddies things as well. There are certainly songs that fit in this category as you really mean it to, I know from my own WP:original research (which isn't allowed...), but I can't think of a way to properly reference and add citations to back the claim for each song, and have it be useful. So you are left with a list of songs that charted higher, not not a list of songs that are necessarily more popular. Oh, and you would also have to define "western" in a neutral manner that is backed by sources, which is tricky, but can be done, and must be verifiable for each group that produced each song. Not a task I would want to take up. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 12:39, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
    @Dennis Brown Yes, I could've asked about singles and albums that charted #1 or sold a hundred thousand records in PH. Well I'll agree about a few non-Filipino acts who are only well-known in PH, but the problem is we need sources to support this (did they have singles that charted #1 or an album that sold a hundred thousand records). So are claims of a single or song being #1 in the Philippines such as with "(I Was) Dying Inside to Hold You" in the Timmy Thomas article. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 15:45, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Good music charts before 2017?

I could just think of a few non-Filipino and English songs that still receive much airplay, but aren't in either the Billboard charts (esp. the Hot 100), UK singles charts, the major European charts or even the Japanese Oricon charts. Some would be album tracks but are not notable outside of their albums which may have charted in either of those. Some songs may be from acts that charted on any of those big charts (e.g. Rupert Holmes, Mary MacGregor, Scorpions, White Lion) but did not chart.

70s
  • Born for You (David Pomeranz)
  • Count on You
  • Terminal (Rupert Holmes)
  • King and Queen of Hearts (David Pomeranz)
  • Till They Take My Breath Away (Clair Marlo)
  • Good Friend (Mary MacGregor)
80s
  • Still Loving You (Scorpions)
  • When the Smoke is Going Down (Scorpions)
  • Always Somewhere (Scorpions)
  • I Can't Believe My Eyes (Rupert Hitchcock, solo single outside of Air Supply)
90s
  • Till Death Do Us Part (White Lion)
  • Dying Inside (To Hold You) (Timmy Thomas)
  • The Actor (Michael Learns to Rock)
  • 25 Minutes (Michael Learns to Rock)
  • Paint My Love (Michael Learns to Rock)
  • Take Me to Your Heart (Michael
  • Angel (Fra Lippo Lippi)
  • Later (Fra Lippo Lippi)
  • Stitches and Burns (Fra Lippo Lippi)

Anyone having an idea of what good historical music charts we have for PH just before Billboard's 2017 chart? TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 17:10, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

How about radio charts? Also, for the 2000s, I think "Where Are You Now" by Honor Society would fit the list. D-Flo27 (talk) 12:02, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
@D-Flo27 I think that's our best bet. Such examples? Also looking to get what chart we have for 70s, 80s and 90s. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 18:27, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
There's no similar Billboard-like chart in the Philippines before Billboard Philippines. Radio charts, such as the RX's Daily Survey, LS's Top 20 at 12, at TM's Early Returns and the like are frowned upon as per Wikipedia:Record charts.
The best bet for an undertaking such as this are certifications from Philippine Association of the Record Industry. Howard the Duck (talk) 19:24, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
@Howard the Duck well, I am actually asking for a cumulative airplay chart that looks into the airplay a single receives across many radio stations. but if there's none, we could just look into certified sales records. hmm, I still wonder how songs by people like David Pomeranz or Timmy Thomas's Dying Inside were successful in the Philippines? million records sold alone? airplay?
well then, I'm looking into having better coverage of the music and pop culture of the Philippines in the 70s, 80s and 90s in general, but I still decry the lack of coverage for a lot of OPM acts from that era (which I tackled earlier). we still don't have article for a lots of OPM acts like the Flippers, Verni Gonzales, Anthony Castelo, Jam Morales, Fathers & Sons, Gino Padilla, Rockstar, Men Oppose, Jerome Abalos, Jeremiah, Lloyd Umali, etc. (that's why I jumped forward to create this PH music task force). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 22:45, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
There's nothing like what you are looking for, Philippines-wise until Billboard PH came along. The best bets are PARI. AFAIK, Pomeranz got a diamond record from PARI. I think there's a Wikipedia article about PARI certification records somewhere. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:56, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
@Howard the Duck I don't think we have a list of best-selling musical artists in the Philippines yet (both Filipino and international). So are a list of best-selling singles (we already have a list for best-selling albums so far). Would appreciate having list articles created for those: list of best-selling music artists in the Philippines and list of best-selling singles in the Philippines. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 17:35, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
TBH I dunno if people bought singles back in the day. Poverty led to widespread piracy even before the age of CDs. Purchases of pirated content didn't count, and I don't think they tracked nonpirated purchases like what Nielsen Soundscan did. AFAIK, singers made more money on concerts, tours and appearances. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:50, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Proposed suggested move of Filipino witches to Witchcraft in the Philippines

I was taken aback by the title of Filipino witches; its tone does not sound quite right. I checked other countries' similar articles and most used "Witchcraft in ..". Should we move it to the proposed title? Sanglahi86 (talk) 01:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Support. As a pet owner, Filipino witches sounds more like a dog/cat breed to me. Borgenland (talk) 01:43, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Could use your help to move it since the proposed title is a redirect. The lead also needs to be revised. It sounds like an attempted definition. Sanglahi86 (talk) 01:53, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Looking at the intro, the second paragraph should be reordered as the first. Borgenland (talk) 02:06, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
You need to request a technical move at WP:RM#TR. CMD (talk) 02:12, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Thanks both for your valuable inputs. I have requested the move in the linked page. I'll try revising the lead. Sanglahi86 (talk) 02:23, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Parliamentary districts of Bangsamoro

I'm not in a rush to create the individual district by province for Parliamentary districts of Bangsamoro which would be vacant until 2025. How should we do it? For Sulu, example. Should a new article named Parliamentary districts of Sulu be made, or a subsection under Legislative districts of Sulu (Congress) should suffice? Hariboneagle927 (talk) 05:39, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Should be separate to avoid confusion with legislative chambers. Borgenland (talk) 05:41, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Parliamentary districts of Sulu should be redirected to Legislative districts of Sulu as that term should refer to Sulu's representation in the Batasang Pambansa.
For Bangsamoro Parliament districts, I suggest "Bangsamoro Parliament districts" for the general article and "Bangsamoro Parliament districts of Sulu, or even "Sulu's 1st Bangsamoro Parliament district".
Ideally, our legislative districts series of article should discuss legislative districts at an LGU at every level, and not just restricted to congressional districts. Some legislative districts are not coextensive (such as the Bulacan's 4th district and Laguna's 1st district). For example, Legislative districts of Bulacan should be about:
To compare, Legislative districts of Antipolo should discuss:
Howard the Duck (talk) 23:35, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Camp Crame maintenance tags added by Anon

Request suggestions for course of action. I noticed today that an anonymous editor added maintenance tags on the Camp Crame article without giving a reason. I can guess as to the specifics of their point. But it seems unfair for other editors that we are not sure what references need to be improved. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 09:52, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I replaced the vague tags with inline tags. Sanglahi86 (talk) 17:51, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Municipal Council

A lot of municipal and city articles need major cleanup in governance sections, as it is utterly ridiculous to include congressional representatives but not governors in the membership of every Sanggunian in the country. And surely everyone knows who really attends those sessions. See these examples from Tanudan, Kalinga and Santo Tomas, Isabela

Members of the Municipal Council
(2019–2022)[1]
Position Name
Congressman Allen Jesse C. Mangaoang
Mayor Jaedicke Rhoss P. Dagadag
Vice-Mayor Joseph B. Cosidon
Councilors Helen A. Gacadan
Constancio L. Dalayap
Melchor B. Balawas
David B. Sangmayao
Solis B. Gac-oy
Jeffrey D. Malawis
Solomon T. Dumalleg
Dennver B. Balinsat
Members of the Santo Tomas Municipal Council
(2022-2025)[2]
Position Name
District Representative Antonio T. Albano
Municipal Mayor Antonio M. Talaue
Municipal Vice-Mayor Amado Talaue
Municipal Councilors Rona Lulu R. Talaue
Eduardo T. Pua, Jr.
Jose Amado S. Talaue
Armando B. Lopez
Eduardo S. Talaue, Jr.
Jesus Canceran
Marirose Angolluan
Sonny P. Tallion

Borgenland (talk) 15:15, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Just to clarify, Sangguniang Bayan members are the following:
The vice mayor can be considered a member, as that person presides of the council, but only votes to break ties.
Mayors and congressmen are not members, but can be shown as part of the government, but should be explained as such, and not as mere "municipal council" members. Howard the Duck (talk) 02:02, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Just a comment on formatting: the councils should be presented in simple list format, no need for bulky overkill tables. The example for Santo Tomas should look like this:

Members of the Santo Tomas Municipal Council (2022-2025):[3]
  • District Representative: Antonio T. Albano
  • Municipal Mayor: Antonio M. Talaue
  • Municipal Vice-Mayor: Amado Talaue
  • Municipal Councilors:
    • Rona Lulu R. Talaue
    • Eduardo T. Pua, Jr.
    • Jose Amado S. Talaue
    • Armando B. Lopez
    • Eduardo S. Talaue, Jr.
    • Jesus Canceran
    • Marirose Angolluan
    • Sonny P. Tallion

I have been changing this already to simple lists where ever I see it... -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 02:27, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

District Representative is another term for Congressman. Borgenland (talk) 03:15, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
We should really not suggest that congressmen and mayors are part of the "municipal council". Howard the Duck (talk) 13:56, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "2019 National and Local Elections" (PDF). Commission on Elections. Retrieved March 13, 2022.
  2. ^ "Santo Tomas, Isabela Election Results 2022". Rappler PH. ph.rappler.com. Retrieved May 13, 2022.
  3. ^ "Santo Tomas, Isabela Election Results 2022". Rappler PH. ph.rappler.com. Retrieved May 13, 2022.

Talk:2024 Philippine political crisis#We should really change the name

We need more people on this discussion. The Philippines has been in a perpetual political crisis anyway, the supposed current one is nothing special. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:33, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Us being in a perpetual political crisis is news to me, Howard. :P To be fair to the last two administrations, they were remarkably stable compared to the current one, and even then the current one seems fairly stable. --Sky Harbor (talk) 16:42, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

The Venson Evangelista kidnapping and murder and the Dominguez group

It's 13 years since it happened, but we still don't have articles for this notorious criminal case from 2011, as well as the organized crime group behind it. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 19:38, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Hmmm... See these Google search results. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 20:48, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2024 Philippine political crisis#Requested move 31 March 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Philippine political crisis#Requested move 31 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. CMD (talk) 10:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Lapulapu needs improvement

I already did stuff to remove/minimize the doubtful statements from a dubious source, yung Aginid ek ek na yan, kaso may epal na hindi nga Pinoy na ni-revert, "did not appear constructive" daw.

Paki-compare please: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lapulapu&diff=1216879282&oldid=1216879187 130.105.195.12 (talk) 21:58, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

This is not a call center, but English only, please. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:05, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Yeah. As a non-Tagalog non-Pinoy, I don't follow this at all. It confuses Google Translate [1]. A look at Epal (politics) helps, but I still don't follow it. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:51, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
The anon is complaining that the article is giving undue weight to the Aginid, which is said to be of dubious historicity. They did a few edits reducing its prominence, but a registered editor reverted said edits because, from the anon's POV, they weren't "constructive".
Granted I've not had the opportunity to really review the edits just yet, but for the sake of the anon: this is what edit summaries are for. Your edits were made without really justifying why. You say that yes, the Aginid is dubious, but wouldn't it be better that it be clearly spelled out in the article as opposed to it being removed?
Also, to Howard and Bill: this is not the first time people have used the national language here, and I trust that you two have been here long enough to know that it will probably not be the last. We've never had an "English-only" policy on this noticeboard as far as I can recall, but I agree that as a matter of courtesy we should at least have the common sense to use English whenever possible. --Sky Harbor (talk) 00:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
This noticeboard is subject to the normal en.wiki WP:TPG, including WP:ENGLISHPLEASE, but I would agree this isn't something that we should expect new users to know. On the topic, it's clear why the IP was reverted, the edit was unexplained blanking and easily mistakable for vandalism. At a quick look and a reading of [2] and [3], my proposal would be not having an Early Life section at all (seems misleading to imply we know that much), and instead expand have an Oral history or Aginid subsection (the current In urban legend and folklore subsection could use great improvement). CMD (talk) 03:54, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
The article says, "The Aginid chronicle, whose historicity is doubtful,17 calls him Lapulapu Dimantag.1718Looking at source 17 I see, "The dance-epic 'Agnid Bayok sa Aong Tawank' was written down [in historical records]". I might myself conclude that something taken from a dance-epic is probably not rock-solid historic fact. Instead of stating that conclusion in wikivoice, however, I would likely characterize it as a dance-epic.
Aginid is new to me. The ref-18 source says that it "is probably the only pre-colonial chronicle of the history of Cebu [...]" and goes on to say, " Amidst strong support by some scholars to institutionalize the Aginid, the Cebu Normal University published it in 1998." I could not find "Dimantag" in source 17, but source 18 says, "Extracted from Marivir Montebon’s book Retracing Our Roots – A Journey into Cebu’s Pre-Colonial Past are excerpts of the story of pre-colonial Cebu according to the Aginid" and, apparently relying on that, sometime later says, "At this time, Lapulapu Dimantag arrived from Borneo and asked Humabon for a place to settle. [...]", using the name Lapulapu Dimantag. I haven't seen that book myself, but see here. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 06:02, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Heat index

For the record, is this the first time we’re shutting classes due to hot weather? I am considering whether to mention it in 2024 in the Philippines and other possibly related items if it is indeed unprecedented. Borgenland (talk) 16:34, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Last year they did this as well. I can't remember if they did the same during the pandemic.
This is also one of the reason why they are reverting back to the June-March calendar. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:41, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
No, here's an article from last year. --Lenticel (talk) 00:11, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
I tend to think it's not necessary. Schools are yet to be fully back to normal since covid anyway, and I get the feeling this is going to be more common in the future anyway, so the "baseline" isn't really baseline.[4] Dennis Brown - 2¢ 10:32, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Kamayan conflates the mere practice of eating with hands with the "boodle fight"

The boodle fight is also not traditionally Filipino, in the pre-Hispanic sense at least. It started as a military practice and spread to civilians for tourist traps etc. and somehow got distorted into a "traditional practice".

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321976928_Everybody_was_boodle_fighting_military_histories_culinary_tourism_and_diasporic_dining

Not sure what should be done. Maybe a split or rename/move to just boodle fight since lots of cultures also eat with their hands. 130.105.195.12 (talk) 04:47, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Suggest making it clear that it's an AFP tradition (which draws from US Miltiary tradition) which separately became associated with Kamayan. If sources are available. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 05:24, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
Article is largely made out of fluff sources, not academic. The entire thing needs work. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 05:37, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Old barangays of Navotas

Northbay Boulevard South 1, Northbay Boulevard South 2, Northbay Boulevard South 3, Tangos, and Tanza are old/former barangays of Navotas. Since early 2018, Navotas now has NBBS Dagat-dagatan, NBBS Kaunlaran, NBBS Proper, Tangos North, Tangos South, Tanza 1, and Tanza 2. Should those old articles be deleted or merged with Navotas? (PSA source) Sanglahi86 (talk) 14:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Those are all what appear to be 3-4 machine translated sentences. They should be merged somewhere. Navotas is probably fine, absent a better current option. CMD (talk) 04:36, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Davao del Norte

Hot day in Davao del Norte with Edwin Jubahib's suspension as governor. Should related infoboxes be revised to indicate a new governor or does the suspension have to be officially served and received before his vice can be proclaimed? It's a standoff in the provincial capitol right now per media reports. Borgenland (talk) 17:33, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Title of "US Naval Base Philippines" article

I am confused by the title of the US Naval Base Philippines article. Is there something wrong with it? - MistahPeemayer (talk) 07:50, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

On a similar note, shouldn't Naval Base Cavite, Naval Base Manila, Naval Station Sangley Point, and Danilo Atienza Air Base been merged into one article? Or least create one navy and air force article each? Borgenland (talk) 09:27, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Naval Base Cavite (U.S.) and Naval Base Manila (Philippines) should be merged, if we're basing it with what was done with Fort William McKinley being merged to Fort Bonifacio.
U.S. Naval Station Sangley Point seems to be a different installation from Naval Base Cavite.
Danilo Atienza Air Base is an air base and is theory different from a naval base. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:09, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Weird article. It seems to be inching towards the space of an article titled American military presence in the Philippines, an overarching topic it's surprising we don't have. There are the specific base articles as well as article like Philippines–United States Visiting Forces Agreement, Mutual Defense Treaty (United States–Philippines), and Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement which would fit within it. CMD (talk) 12:01, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
This should have been named United States naval bases in the Philippines. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:04, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
I've moved it for now. I agree with Howard the Duck's suggested new title. However, it IS also weired that we don't have an article covering the US Bases (not just Navy) more generally, as CMD pointed out. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 00:13, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
I think we have individual articles on the individual bases/installations, but not an encompassing article for the US presence in the country. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:16, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
My two centavos: I don't think we want an article for "Presence," but I think the "Bases" as a collective had a history which cannot be covered by just the individual articles. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 09:48, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
I'd agree that the maintenance of US bases in the Philippines may have been coordinated in some way and can be looked up as a collective, more so to the two bases in Central Luzon, Subic and Clark. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:56, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
I remember those days, but not well. Some quick googling turned up a few items that ought to be useful: [5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:46, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

The need is less because of their operations, and more because they were a major geopolitical bargaining chip for decades. An alternative is a page for the US Bases Treaty which is a separate document from the Mutual Defense Treaty. But "US Bases in the Philippines" is the broader more recognizable topic. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 23:51, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

I've created an article at US Bases in the Philippines. Please improve (it could use a lot of improvement). Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 04:59, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
I came across this article while patrolling for NPP. I think it'd be better if we merged in the naval bases article with this one, but I'm unsure of how it'd fit in the new article. Perhaps we can even expand the scope of the article further to reach a comprehensive "American military presence in the Philippines" article that was suggested by Chipmunkdavis. Chlod (say hi!) 01:58, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
I agree re. merging the Naval Bases article into the US Bases article. It should merge into the Subic Bay Naval Base article, which is the one it actually overlaps. But should we notify any existing US Military or US Navy wikiprojects first? I believe United States military presence in the Philippines needs to be a different article from the Bases article; a lot of overlap but vastly different emphases. I was thinking there should be an article on Philippines - United States Defense Cooperation, but United States military presence in the Philippines would suffice. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 02:16, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
Mergers should go through a merge proposal first, and we can notify other WikiProjects about those. But we should probably plan around how to lay these articles out first so that we don't end up making a mess of merges, moves, and splits. If there's enough content about the bases themselves that it would be better to split from an eventual "United States military presence in the Philippines" page, then we should probably go with that. But otherwise, it might just be better to transform the bases article and increase its scope. Chlod (say hi!) 03:15, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
I don't disagree about the expediency of the merge/split tactics, but I also believe the bases played too important a part in Philippine history not to have their own article. Lumping them together with things like EDCA or the VFA or Balikatan would be a disservice to Philippine history, not least the organizations like the Anti Bases Coalition who engaged with the bases issue for a long time. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 04:35, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Baguio SEZ

Is Baguio City Economic Zone same with the one in Camp John Hay per [[14]]? I am confused as to which site should I link to an event relating to it in 2024 in the Philippines. Borgenland (talk) 15:58, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Couldn't find a map, but some generic sources ([15], [16], [17]) show the address of Baguio City Economic Zone (BCEZ) is in Loakan Road, so it might be different from the one in Camp John Hay. Although this source suggests BCEZ encompasses a portion of Camp John Hay. Sanglahi86 (talk) 23:15, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
I haven't lived in Baguio in a very long time, but there used to be an EPZ on the way to PMA which was not part of Camp John Hay. (This was while John Hay was still a US base. I am old.) I always thought that the BCEZ referred to the old EPZA compound. Perhaps I'm wrong. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 04:45, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

QC Jail

Stumbled across Quezon City Jail and found it sad that it remains a stub despite being a major prison. Inviting everyone to try and expand it. Borgenland (talk) 10:19, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

The thing with Western musical artists mostly known in PH again, and missing best-selling singles and artists lists

I still wonder about the several non-Filipino musical artists/bands that are mostly known within PH (e.g. Fra Lippo Lippi, Marlo, Pomeranz, Price, Stephen Speaks, etc.). How they got to be known in PH while being practically unknown in the West? Admit it, we don't have good music charts before Billboard launched PH charts, but it still makes me wonder why they still get so much radio airplay in PH.

Similar question goes with songs from Western acts that are mostly familiar to Filipinos due to being played on the radio. Too many to think of, but some of them are being mentioned as being no. 1 hits in PH (often without contemporaneous sources such as a music chart considered suitable as source here). Most of those are usually from past century and are album tracks that has never been released as singles (especially those from the album-oriented rock radio era). Some examples I can think of, excluding those from the artists mentioned above: "Always Somewhere", "Holiday" and "When the Smoke is Going Down" (Scorpions), "Till Death Do Us Part" and "You're All I Need" (White Lion), "Dying Inside" (Timmy Thomas), "Marry Your Daughter" (Brian McKnight?).

Beside the thing with Western musical acts mostly known in PH but not so known in the West, I would like to see a list of best-selling singles and musical artists. The thing we currently have is a list of best-selling albums. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 10:49, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Chavit

Not to risk getting shot, but I am surprised Chavit Singson does not carry any mention of his important role in triggering the downfall of Joseph Estrada or any of the related charges that he has faced, which are serious enough to be recorded. Was this already made this way or was this info scrubbed by some COI years before? Borgenland (talk) 09:09, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

It waa removed on this edit. As a WP:BLP, it has to be cited. Howard the Duck (talk) 09:33, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Found some refs for it. I am planning to expand on other charges plus this ticket he got for driving inside the EDSA busway today. Borgenland (talk) 09:37, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
I recently edited the Ilocos Sur article and added a lot of material about the Crisologos. I was also surprised that it avoids the Crisologos and Singsons. I would edit more, but I know less about the Singsons than I know about the Crisologos. - MistahPeemayer (talk) 02:30, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
The Philippine Star provides good coverage of Chavit Singson's activities, though you will need to rummage through their online archive beginning in 2000. Borgenland (talk) 17:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Drugs

Need advice. What article do you most commonly link shabu with? I am confused whether it should be methamphetamine or ya ba for the big drug haul in 2024 in the Philippines. Borgenland (talk) 17:34, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Shabu is, as far as I know, almost always associated with (crystal) meth, so it should be linked to the former not the latter. Here's a Spanish-language source which shows how the word is used. --Sky Harbor (talk) 09:14, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
I think its crystal meth. --Lenticel (talk) 01:23, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
How about a verifiable cite instead of "I think"? See e.g. [18][19][20][21]. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 04:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

"Putang ina" or "Pu**** ina"?

So I noticed on the controversies section of E.A.T. that the obscenity uttered by Wally Bayola was minced out and as such I had to uncensor it per WP:NOTCENSORED. My edit was reverted, however, with Nineteen Ninety-Four Guy reasoning that the source cited rendered the cuss word in a minced manner therefore we should quote it as such even if the news outlet simply censored it out to keep the paper from sounding too M-rated.

Should we be that didactic especially with treating material censored by the works cited or is it OK to be bold and invoke academic freedom? Blake Gripling (talk) 13:50, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Paging @Nineteen Ninety-Four guy: Blake Gripling (talk) 13:56, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
A quick glance at the tagalog profanity article (where this cuss word isn't bowdlerized and additional context is provided) on the reader's part should serve as a compromise to this burden. I don't think this merits further discussion, as WP:BOWDLERIZE made it clear that its policy of quoting a bowdlerized language as such and pairing it with a sic template overrides the silent correction of one; the source's motive in doing so is inconsequential. Nineteen Ninety-Four guy (talk) 14:36, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
I beg to differ. The fact that Bayola said "putang ina" is reported in Wikivoice. It's not a quote from the source; an actual quote that faithfully needs to represent the bowlderizing in the original text per WP:BOWDLERIZE would look like this: "[...] the former suddenly shouted the word 'P*tang*na!'" (btw not(!) "put*** ina" as now appears in the article). Since we represent the uttered profanity in Wikivoice, it has to be spelled out. –Austronesier (talk) 15:36, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Wikivoice? Do you have a link to it by chance? Blake Gripling (talk) 18:12, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

PRO

Added requests for all PNP regional bases but couldn't seem to find the camp name for PRO-Soccsksargen. Need help finding a title for inclusion. Borgenland (talk) 07:16, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

"The Police Regional Office 12 proudly announced the renaming of PRO 12 camp to “Camp General Paulino T Santos” in honor of General Paulino T Santos during the unveiling of the PRO 12 camp marker on March 15, 2024." howdy.carabao 🌱🐃🌱 (talk) 11:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Auxiliary Bishop

Need consensus on whether the appointment of Father Reynaldo Bersabal as new auxiliary bishop in California merits inclusion into 2024 in the Philippines. I do not want to insert this and get reverted at the same time that our favorite Sock is back ruining the page.

For reference: https://www.rappler.com/philippines/pope-francis-names-reynaldo-bersabal-auxiliary-bishop-sacramento/ 

Borgenland (talk) 14:55, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
No, I don't think so. It is an affair within the global Catholic Church as an organization and is barely a milestone - "fifth bishop". Its no different if a Filipino citizen gets to become a CEO of a Fortune company in America. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 15:18, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:November 2023 Mindanao earthquake#Requested move 4 April 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:November 2023 Mindanao earthquake#Requested move 4 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. HueMan1 (talk) 23:44, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Shenanigans in Isulan

It appears that an editor has been tampering with the demographic statistics of Isulan and inventing numbers not supported by the 2020 national census, which is used by every competent editor on Philippines-related topics. It also appears that they have been censoring important parts of the town's history on false pretenses and wiping off references to its indigenous origins in favor of Hiligaynon culture. That the user proceeded twice to blank a whole section despite being warned and falsely claim that the facts were false despite it being well-sourced does not inspire confidence on me issuing a second warning on their talk page. Need help on what steps should be taken to protect the page short of raising an ANI or requesting a PP increase. Borgenland (talk) 16:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

  • I will try to keep an eye on that, ping me if needed. Hopefully it was a one off problem and not a pattern. I did leave a more blunt message on their user page. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 06:44, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Radio in the Philippines needs expansion

In its current state, the article about radio in the Philippines has been little more than a stub-ish article in stark contrast to the like of Radio in the United States. Lot of it is history, but no other details such as broadcast services, formats and prevalence. Notably, a discussion about the common "masa" (aka "contemporary MOR") format is missing. I think the section about acts of violence against radio broadcasters seems to repeat only info covered at list of journalists killed in the Philippines and rather undue. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 05:49, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Just expanded the article, but would leave most further additions and sourcing to anyone interested. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 07:55, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
  • I don't think I have the skills to expand it, but I would imagine a lot can be done. I have learned in the 6 months of living here that radio in PH is a very different thing than radio in the US. More wild west, more radio drama (zero in the US now), and less "bland" and corporate-ized than American radio, where most of the stations are owned by conglomerates that focus more on radio being an advertising platform rather than producing unique content. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 06:47, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Pisay

I recently made a major copy edit to the movie Pisay (film), which is about the school I went in high school, but in a different campus from the film and expanded on its related links. Does that qualify as a COI and if so, where can I find the proper disclosure template and a userbox if there is one? Borgenland (talk) 09:22, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@Borgenland: Editing the film article should be fine, unless you were involved in the production of the film. In any case, should you wish to declare a possible conflict of interest anyway (or for future reference): {{Connected contributor}}, which goes on the talk page, and {{User COI}} for a userpage userbox (though this is optional, see WP:DCOI for more info). Chlod (say hi!) 09:25, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
It's a pretty mild COI, so the goal would be to make sure you don't edit in a way that advocates the organization. This type of COI is pretty common. Since you don't have an ongoing link or financial link to the organization, a template declaring the conflict isn't really necessary. If you want to put a simple statement on your user page that says you went there, that's fine. I think people are more concerned that you keep all edits neutral. If you go in and make a bunch of major edits to it or rewrite half the article, then it would probably be wise to have someone look at it afterwards. You can ask for that here. Farmer Brown - 2¢ (alt: Dennis Brown) 23:40, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
It was a trim to an excessive plot plus the inclusion of a production section. For transparency though, I was just nine years old when the film was made and watched the film aged 17, years after I missed a mandatory screening of it in high school due to illness. Borgenland (talk) 04:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/Roster

I noticed several indef blocked users, including CU blocked users in the list. Would anyone mind if I trimmed the list to exclude anyone who obviously doesn't belong? I wouldn't remove anyone short term blocked, just the ones without a chance of coming back. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 07:20, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Canada/Members has a subsection "Blocked users" under its "Former members" section. Maybe we could do that if it does not sound too cruel? Sanglahi86 (talk) 07:36, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Honestly, I wouldn't want that. If they are indef blocked for sockpuppeting or community banned (de facto or de jure), we just need to remove them. Putting them in a list of "blocked editors" just brings more attention to them, unwanted attention, and isn't fair to them. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 07:41, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
I agree. I have no strong objections if they are removed. Although I was thinking it would be better to just place them in the Former members section instead of removing them as some blocked users may have contributed much prior to being blocked, whatever the reason. Sanglahi86 (talk) 08:46, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
Putting them in former might be a better idea. I just like the current members to reflect the actual active members. If I could get a bot to look at who is really active, I might even /msg members who haven't contributed to Filipino articles in over a year, maybe getting them interested again. The goal (in my eyes) is to have a real number of people who edit Filipino articles at least once a year. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 09:17, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Articles at AFD that are within the scope of this Project

You are welcome to participate. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 09:20, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Artworks

What are the rules for posting images of artworks and other items from museums and galleries in the Philippines here? I have this nasty habit of taking pictures of everything on display but with that thing over the freedom of panorama issue months ago I would like to make sure. If there is a specific work you would like to find feel free to approach.

For reference I have the following images of museums across the country which I have stored in my Facebook account:

If anyone involved in overseas projects is also interested, I also have giant repositories of the following:

Borgenland (talk) 08:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

The rules are basically what the local copyright/FoP laws say, and specifically for artwork in the Philippines, then basic copyright rules apply since we don't have FoP (yet). The artwork has to be out-of-copyright before they can be posted to Wikimedia Commons but can be uploaded locally to Wikipedia as long as a valid WP:FAIRUSE rationale is added. There's no going around this: you need to research the copyright status of each piece of artwork. —seav (talk) 04:32, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Just read the copyright law. Many of the images I took were of too long dead authors over the 50 year statutes, especially the pre-colonial era and colonial era ones. What I am still uncertain is how the institutions in which they are kept has bearing on copyright, particularly works in state institutions (see anything with National, Provincial or Presidential) on it. Borgenland (talk) 06:55, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
If you yourself took a photo of the artwork that is out-of-copyright, then the hosting institution or owner has not bearing at all on the resulting copyright of your photo. (They might have rules about no picture taking, but that has nothing to do with intellectual property laws and has no effect on Wikimedia projects.) —seav (talk) 16:10, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Billboard PH charts before 2017?

Just found this from one article about one Connie Francis song ("Wishing It Was You"), looks like Billboard had Philippine charts before the now-defunct Philippines Hot 100 and the existing Philippine Songs. Not sure about its last publication. If that stretched up to Billboard Philippines Hot 100 launch, good news; we might be able to craft out a list of number-one singles in PH from the 50s/60s to present (we currently don't have one yet aside from those covered as sections of the respective charts' pages). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 06:02, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok, maybe there are several from the 1960s. But I highly doubt we would find a PH chart for the other decades, especially the 2010s. They just didn't have the rights for it. All we have are radio, and MTV, and Myx. Unfortunately, those won't be accepted. D-Flo27 (talk) 12:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
@D-Flo27 It's been almost two weeks, but I have some thoughts. Well, most radio-only charts won't be acceptable for WP, but Canada got CHUM Chart (from a radio station in Toronto) for singles chart rankings in that country until 1964.
As additional background, I have previously asked if there is a good pre-2017 music chart in a thread that started off with non-PH acts or singles known largely in PH. It ended up with the best bets for a being largely radio station charts, which would usually fail WP:Record charts. But with nothing like Billboard Philippine charts from the 60s(?) down to 2017, I am thinking if even we would end up taking up a radio station chart for PH singles rankings (with a good explanation of course), just as with Canada taking up CHUM's chart for pre-1964 singles as it had some prominence as an indicator of the popular hits in that country, which was soon taken up by RPM from late 1964 to late 2000 and Billboard Canada from late 2000 to present. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 03:45, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Request for page protection - Alice Guo

Hi, is there a possibility to request for page protection against unverified edits for Alice Guo? There are lots of IP edits on going adding unverified claims and sometimes threat messages on the page since its creation. Thanks. — JL 09 talkcontribs    08:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

You can file a request here Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. Borgenland (talk) 08:50, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Invitation for the 2024 Developing Countries WikiContest

Hello, everyone! I'd like to invite you all to sign up for the upcoming 2024 Developing Countries WikiContest. The event runs from July 1 to September 30 and signups close on July 15. The WikiContest focuses on developing countries, which the Philippines is a part of. The intention is to improve the English Wikipedia's coverage and comprehension of articles related to developing countries. For this reason, you may also expect that articles related to the Philippines may be heavily edited during the contest. More information on how points will be awarded can be found at Wikipedia:2024 Developing Countries WikiContest/Scoring. For comments or suggestions, please don't hesitate to reach out to Wikipedia talk:2024 Developing Countries WikiContest. Thank you! Chlod (say hi!) 04:36, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Obituaries in Timelines

What were the rules in inserting pictures of deceased individuals in years in the Philippines timelines? I find it undue for example that Anita Linda and Danding Cojuangco were not included in the photo gallery for 2020 in the Philippines despite the former's long tenure in the film industry and the latter's infamy (for lack of a better term) in politics and business. Borgenland (talk) 16:27, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

No specific guidelines at least according to Wikipedia:Timeline standards. WP:GALLERY may provide guidelines, but under the letter of the text, it's more likely that the gallery should be removed entirely instead of added to. You may want to ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Years, who might be better at maintaining the timeline articles. Chlod (say hi!) 04:49, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
@Borgenland: Forgot to ping. See above. Thanks! Chlod (say hi!) 04:49, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Ang pagpapatibay ng Movement Charter

Nagbibigay-balita lang po.

The Wikimedia Movement Charter ratification is up ahead, from 25 June until 9 July, 2024.

Be a part of it.

Read here.

Buszmail (talk) 04:50, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Or, in English, see m:Movement Charter. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 06:55, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Ongoing vandalism

2024 in Philippine sports is being vandalized by an IP who keeps adding unsourced content despite multiple warnings. Have warned them off personally and filed a PP request but need extra eyes to monitor the page. Borgenland (talk) 15:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Senate of the Philippines

There is an ongoing leadership change (LOL), and amidst the changes people still insisting to use full names as pipelinks on Wikipedia articles such as Senate of the Philippines and 19th Congress of the Philippines. Please help in reverting to the actual Wikipedia article titles as links instead of these pipelinks. Thanks! Howard the Duck (talk) 08:43, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Also questioning why Chiz Escudero is listed as incumbent president despite the absence of a full Senate vote. Borgenland (talk) 08:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
OK so the vote just occurred. Borgenland (talk) 09:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Need help cleaning up San Nicolas, Pangasinan's Page

Good Day,

I still quite relative new to Wikipedia, and I found out that someone copy-paste the whole history section and geography section from San Nicolas, Pangasinan's Official Website. I tried my best to remove bits that I KNOW that is unnecessary and I need help to remove the parts I'm doubting to remove. I also summarize it and added many maintenance tags. I just want to let somebody who knows what to do with this. Warm Regards, Miminity (talk) 05:20, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out. Will fix. Borgenland (talk) 05:41, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Thanks Miminity. Copyvios should be removed, I have cleared the remaining parts given you have rewritten most of the History section. The IP also made minor changes I didn't revert, as they don't seem to be copyvios. I have tagged the page for revdel. If you feel some of the removed information was relevant, feel free to add it in your own words citing the official website. CMD (talk) 05:43, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Okay, Thanks. I don't know how to differentiate. I will keep this in mind. Warm Regards, Miminity (talk) 05:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
@Borgenland Please restore the copyrevdel tag with an updated end diff number when you think it is clear. Best, CMD (talk) 06:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
I think its clear on my part. Need help on the number though. Borgenland (talk) 06:48, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Number looks fine. Best, CMD (talk) 06:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Copyvio in La Salle Araneta

The Historical background section of De La Salle Araneta University is unsourced and appears to have been copypasted (possible from its website). Need help fixing or removing section altogether. Borgenland (talk) 16:23, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

I've found that the top part of that section consists of a close paraphrase from the DLSAU website. I've tagged the section with {{copyvio}} in accordance with Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing#Addressing. Please see instructions on that article for the procedure for rewriting the infringing text. Chlod (say hi!) 17:08, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
Will try to salvage what I could. For now I believe what is visible should be split off into a separate section. Borgenland (talk) 17:16, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
On second thought I will just split what remains off and wait for a final decision on the history. Will make a hidden draft though. Borgenland (talk) 17:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Update on missing OPM artist articles

Hello here, especially those on the PH Music task force

I would like to provide some update on the missing OPM artist drive. Maybe it's good someone already have an article about Odette Quesada, but I think we still need to look into the other missing OPM acts such as Lloyd Umali (which had a concert upcoming). Looks like the missing article on Filipino musicians and bands we maintain in the task force page are getting longer but there is not much effort in creating articles and recreating deleted ones. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 04:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Which is why we have to recruit more people to the task force. There's like only four members so far, but I know there's a lot more who do Filipino music edits.
As for me, May has always been a busy time for me, which is why I don't have a lot of edits this month, music-related or otherwise. But I definitely plan to help out as soon as I can, especially on the songs I requested myself. D-Flo27 (talk) 10:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
@D-Flo27 Just an update, I just added another missing band into the to-do list: Judas, 70s-early 80s Pinoy rock band known for the songs "Basted" and "Dukha". TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 09:35, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Alice Guo#Requested move 24 May 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Alice Guo#Requested move 24 May 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. HueMan1 (talk) 10:34, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Poblacion, Alubijid

Does anyone know how to build information about the barangay? Ahri Boy (talk) 14:12, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

@Ahri.boy current consensus is that barangay articles are typically discouraged unless there are sufficient independent sources that substantially mention the barangay (not just mere statistical sources from PSA), such as Forbes Park, Makati. If the only reliable sources to be found are mere statistical information, the barangay cannot be notable per WP:GEOLAND, and expansion of the municipality article (Alubijid) is encouraged. See also Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/Frequent discussions/Articles on barangays (which hasn't been updated since 2022). JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 11:02, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Ohh... I already requested WP:G7. Ahri Boy (talk) 11:09, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

"Only in the Philippines"

Someone might want to look into creating an article discussing this common self-deprecatory expression, which might also has to do with cultural cringe. There are article for similar concepts such as big in Japan and world famous in New Zealand but not this one. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 04:21, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

A redirect could also be made into only in da Pilipins. Borgenland (talk) 04:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
Anyone interested in creating this? TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 08:26, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
I created a draft article a minute or so ago, other contributors are more than welcome to make relevant edits and make it article-worthy.-Ian Lopez @ 14:48, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Pacific Typhoon season

Where can I learn more about Philippine protocols dealing with 2024 Pacific typhoon season? I have just begun contributing for Aghon. Borgenland (talk) 15:45, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't think there is anything PH-specific for typhoons. These articles are much better maintained under the WP:WPTC WikiProject so just follow their lead. —seav (talk) 17:27, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Here's my advice on Pacific typhoon season articles for any newcomer, from my four seasons of editing in the space:
  • Storm data is always from the Japan Meteorological Agency (cyclone category, wind speeds, gusts, pressure, location) or the Joint Typhoon Warning Center (for 1-minute wind speeds, gusts, and pressure). The only data used from PAGASA are landfalls.
  • Unlike in hurricane season articles, "Category N" and the Saffir–Simpson scale is not used here. Each "upgrade" up the SSHWS should be removed, unless it is contextually significant (i.e. when a storm becomes a "Category 4-equivalent super typhoon" according to the JTWC), and in that case an "-equivalent" suffix is added.
  • International name is always used over local name.
  • 24-hour time is always used. When an event doesn't have ties to a country, UTC is used (13:00 UTC).
  • Splits from the season article are decided when there are significant impacts. Standard preparation procedures are not considered. This usually means a prospective storm article should have a detailed and comprehensive "Impacts" section.
    • Storm article titles do not include the word "Severe" (from "Severe tropical storm") or "Super" (from "Supertyphoon").
  • JMA, JTWC, and PAGASA citation links are unreliable, and very quickly get replaced or die out. For this reason, we've developed a culture around archiving everything. The season talk page has links to where all advisories are posted, and includes a link to archive collections near the top.
    • This also means we use a lot of citations. Without them, information would quickly become unverifiable. See 2019 Pacific typhoon season for an example.
  • Minimize your edit count, and use edit summaries. This helps decrease history size and contextualize the history, which can reach up to 5,000 revisions by the end of the season.
  • Standard preparation procedures — like class suspensions, storm signals, government agency "red alerts", etc. — are usually omitted from the season article, unless significant. Instead, there's more focus on impacts and aftermath.
  • WP:WPTC/S is the style guide, WP:WPTC/Tracks is the track generator, talk page is the place to go if you have clarifications about storm data or info.
  • Lower-quality writing in this space is common, usually because tropical cyclones are a subject of interests to many younger editors. If you do see something written badly, please try to fix it. On the other side of the coin, many long-time editors in the space have lesser tolerance for low quality, because of the aforementioned.
Chlod (say hi!) 17:55, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Confused in one aspect though. Does MOS:PH apply there? I've been going back and forth reverting the word city in the PAGASA bulletins. Borgenland (talk) 11:37, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Use the actual article title save for parathentical dabs. Howard the Duck (talk) 12:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Bohol

Vice governor needs updating with Governor Erico Aristotle Aumentado's suspension, especially since I can't calculate which board member can be acting vice gov. Borgenland (talk) 14:17, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

The list of officials of the following towns also need to be updated in light of the suspensions as well as the fact that some of them have also not been updated since at least 2019:
Borgenland (talk) 14:39, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
The acting VG is the topnotchee BM who had the higher percentage of votes vs total votes. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:56, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
That's regardless of the total numbers of the electoral district, am I right? Borgenland (talk) 15:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Yes, that's right. So the "#1 board member" is the topnotcher with the highest percentage.
Of course in at-large districts this is much simpler. Howard the Duck (talk) 05:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
It seems to me that there should exist a post-election governmental source giving names of officials holding posts, a news report of a swearing-in, or some other citeable source more reliable than interpretation of election results by WP editors. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 21:22, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Unfortunately local governments can be quite incompetent record keepers who sometimes put nothing more than a Facebook post to remind everyone who’s in charge. Borgenland (talk) 02:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
COMELEC used to have winners of the 2019 elections down to the councilor level on their website. For the 2022 elections, this is not yet done save for Senate and party list elections. In the old days, they have published books about how the elections was organized, including the winners.
I guess it'll be great if the local Wikimedia chapters writes a letter to COMELEC to publish these on their website. Howard the Duck (talk) 06:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
This is a more internal thing for COMELEC to fix but they really should set guidelines on what names candidates put on the ballot. I sometimes doubt myself whenever I have to put for example a person named Kuya Jhunjhong dela Cruz as mayor. Borgenland (talk) 06:08, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Names as they appear on the ballot is decided by the candidate him/herself. I don't think you'd name an article like Cynthia Hanepbuhay Villar, right? It's best to use names actually used by WP:RS. Howard the Duck (talk) 06:35, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Philippine debut - improvements needed

The present article for Philippine debut is rather in bad shape. There is just only one source, and while there are lots of details, it doesn't have info on origins to Spanish-era or precolonial traditions (as compared to similar traditions such as the Latin American quinceañera, where it has much similarity). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 07:22, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Bumping this. Anyone interested in expanding (including adding images) and adding sources? TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 08:26, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Bumping again. Anyone interested in taking on this article? TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 06:58, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Article titles in Filipino

I remember past discussions here and/or on individual article talk pages about this. I'm raising it again here. Is there a project-level stance on this? If not, I think that there should be.

This edit to this talk page came up on my watchlist. The change there related to the Libingan ng mga Bayani article. Quoting the lead sentence of the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) guidline:

The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject that is most common in the English language, as you would find it in reliable sources (for example other encyclopedias and reference works, scholarly journals, and major news sources).

I emphasize here the words should generally use).

Please understand that the Filipino language is very much a minority language in the world, that this is the English language Wikipedia, that most Wikipedia users do not read Filipino, [..] (I cut that list short because the items I have mentioned are pretty obvious and have probably been mentioned on past discussions on this issue, along with numerous (and important, from the viewpoint of a reader not literate in the Filipino language -- i.e., the great majorigity of Wikipedia readerrs) similar unmentioned items).

Besides the Libingan ng mga Bayani article (see some searches for alternative English language titles at [22] [23] [24] [25] [26]), there's the Bantayog ng mga Bayani article (one English language alternative is Monument of Heroes -- see [27], etc.) and, probably, some others.

Please, project members, discuss this and come to a project-level stance on this. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

We can probably do an RFC here (could be this very thread). My position is that we should generally use the most common name as used by English-language reliable sources, with a bias on locally-produced sources. To give a few examples:
Note that these names are proper names and so they don't have to be translated when used as article titles just because some sources have done so per WP:COMMONNAME. We use the most common name predominantly used by English-language sources and English-language sources in the Philippines predominantly use the Filipino-based proper names.
Furthermore, this is not an issue unique to the Philippines. Ireland, a predominantly English-using country (to the detriment of its native Irish language), have article titles in Irish even though some reliable sources have referred to the corresponding entities with their common English translations: Taoiseach (instead of "Prime Minister of Ireland"), Dáil Éireann (instead of "Assembly of Ireland", ), and Oireachtas (instead of "Parliament of Ireland"). If using "non-English" titles is good enough for Ireland, then it should be good enough for the Philippines. —seav (talk) 04:24, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Our policy is WP:USEENGLISH, or use thw name English language sources use. This means many non-English names will be used. We call the city by the in California "San Francisco" , not "Saint Francis".
I suppose English names may be used, and my personal standard is if it's used to the level that it is not astonishing for most people as the non-English name, like "Day of Valor" vs. "Araw ng Kagitingan" (even calendars now use the English name, for example). Libingan and Bantayog are almost never refered to its English names, and Pamantasan just barely so. Howard the Duck (talk) 05:58, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
If English-language sources routinely uses Filipino names then we should used them with bias to Philippine-based sources as per MOS:TIES. To list some examples
  • English is an official language in the Philippines as well, and generally speaking, many sources will publish in Tagalog (or Cebuano, etc) and in English. I think we need to give more weight to what English names they are using in these circumstances. Not everything should be a English equivalent, but things don't translate perfectly (try translating the word kilig for example), and what we are concerned with is the most commonly used name by English speakers, not American or British English speakers. If PH papers are using the PH names when reporting in English, then that is probably the right name, at least most of the time. Fwhetor example, I would say Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas is the right name, and Central Bank of the Philippines is the right redirect. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 00:09, 5 May 2024 o effectiveky searable t(UTC)
I'm traveling for te next few days or weeks and not able to do much research, but it occurs to me to wonder whether the English language sources you speak of might be predominately sources appearing in the Philippines and with readership expectations mostly made up of Filipinos literate in both English and Tagalog. If that is the case, I would say that sampling of sources is heavily weighted and not very representative of or relevant to the bulk of WP article readership. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 08:21, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
Much of the English language WP:RS about Philippine topics are from the Philippines. As per MOS:TIES, we'd give Philippine sources importance over other sources; some foreign sources are even written by Filipinos themselves, globalized by that foreign WP:RS editors to make it relatable to their audience: for example, Ben Evardone was once described as MP from Eastern Samar by the BBC.
The most notorious about this was when Libingan ng mga Bayani was moved because an Indian WP:RS used the English translation, and that was the basis of the move. Seriously, much love to Indian WP:RS, but that does not make sense. Howard the Duck (talk) 08:28, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
I am also wary about foreign sources continuously referring to Congress of the Philippines as parliament and confusing everyone with using the term when discussing 2024 constitutional reform attempts in the Philippines. Borgenland (talk) 10:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
When we speak of WP:COMMONNAME, we aren't addressing Wikipedia's readership, we are talking about sources. And yes, most English sources about the Philippines are likely to come from the Philippines. Except for the recent activity in the West Philippines Sea, the rest of the world often doesn't pay much attention to what happens here anyway. Even if sources were evenly split, and you had to pick one name, you would lean towards what local English sources use because again, English is one of two official languages here. If the bulk of the sources use a western English name, then sure, you use that name. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:34, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
FWIW, I'd be okay with an English language name if it's just as widespread as the non-English name, or at least it wouldn't leave Filipinos astonished, as per my suggestion on Day of Valor vs. Araw ng Kagitingan. Howard the Duck (talk) 11:48, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
That sounds right, it will be a spectrum and there will be a few where there probably isn't a correct answer. CMD (talk) 11:59, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
If I may please add the Bantayog ng mga Bayani as being one of those proper names that are never translated into English because it's a proper name. And even the formal name of the organization is "Bantayog ng mga Bayani Foundation, Inc." - Chieharumachi (talk) 14:35, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
It being a proper name should be of little significance, title-wise (WP:OFFICIAL). As stated earlier, "Araw ng Kagitingan" is a proper name, is stated as the name of the holiday in a law otherwise written in English, yet the article is at Day of Valor. If an English name is widely used, we should use it, even if the non-English name can claim to be more numerous in WP:RS, again subject to some exceptions.
With that being said, Bantayog ng mga Bayani is almost never translated into English, so should probably stay there. Howard the Duck (talk) 18:38, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm not really focused on this but I've been looking at it as I get time. I'm surprised by the sparsity of items at the Heroes' Cemetery disambig page and at the lack of uniformity in naming of target articles there. Perhaps the lack of uniformity should be raised at WT:EN. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 13:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Funny enough, the last topic at that talk page is a clarification since people quoting this guideline always misunderstand what it means. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Interesting. Both of those cases seem to parallel this one. Out of curiosity, I looked at the renaming of Mount McKinley to Denali; that seems to have been done to track a governmental renaming, not because of language prevalence in sources (see [34][35][36]). Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Ah, reversion to original native names prior to when White guys named these places. Probably like Uluru vs. Ayers rock, or even Kolkata vs. Calcutta. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:54, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Use English! Don't worry about predominant usage in English-language sources, use "Saint Francis", "Elysian Fields", "January River", because the title of the guideline says "use English, pare" (and don't worry about the actual content of the guideline). Use "Heroes' Cemetery"...eh..."Cemetery of Heroes", eh no, "Cemetery of the Heroes" or whatever you're going to make up as title for lack of any common English name of the Libingan ng mga Bayani basta it's English! –Austronesier (talk) 16:46, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
The discussion seems to have died down a bit, but it seems that there is a rough consensus that we should still follow WP:USEENGLISH and apply it on an individual basis per article. Does this assessment sound about right? —seav (talk) 12:43, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
We've had several WP:RMs where the article wwas moved to a non-English name due to WP:USEENGLISH, save for one, which was still moved, but to an English name as it is still used predominantly by WP:RS. Howard the Duck (talk) 07:43, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Kanlaon

Referring this request [37] from Talk:Kanlaon. Borgenland (talk) 05:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

I have fixed the erroneous coordinates and added a separate pushpin map. Sanglahi86 (talk) 07:03, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
It's interesting though someone figured out where the volcano begins from the rest of the topography. For physical features a puahpin map should suffice. Howard the Duck (talk) 07:06, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
It appears that the OpenStreetMap polygon/relation used in the infobox refers to Mount Kanlaon Natural Park. I think it should be the mountain itself. Sanglahi86 (talk) 08:40, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
If that's the case, use this map on the national park article, but not on the article about the mountain per se. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Can't get to fix it. It doesn't seem to be defined in Wikidata. Other editors might be able to fix it. Sanglahi86 (talk) 14:06, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
I don't have a computer right now. Somebody else please help! Howard the Duck (talk) 15:52, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
That appears to already be in the article as a click-option for the infobox image. I've pointed that out on the article talk page. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:17, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Missing Filipino musician and band articles (again) and expanding Task Force Music

Well again, any update on filling the gap on missing notable Filipino musician and band articles? Would like to emphasize missing or deleted articles of more recent acts such as Bugoy or Jireh (whose articles should have been undeleted now and improved with more recent sources).

For 70s, 80s and 90s OPM artists, coverage doesn't seem to have improved. My latest addition to the article requests was of the 70s-80s rock band Judas, but once I come up with another artist from songs I hear on radio, there'll be more. Looking to have articles for some of the other notable 90s OPM acts such as Jerome Abalos, Lloyd Umali or Men Oppose (the last one is really one of the most baffling gaps in coverage of OPM acts, having no article for years despite their large size and their hit songs being on the rotation of the big OPM radio stations). Err, here's another puzzling coverage gap: we have article for 00s novelty acts like Viva HotBabes or Sexbomb Girls, but not Masculados (why?)

At last, it's with expanding Task Force Music. Currently it's just the four of us. The list of article requests has been growing, yet we still need more members (especially those interested in OPM of the 70s up to the 90s). Much of the PH music-related editing activity is devoted to more recent acts, and the gap on coverage of classic OPM is only going to become wider should I discover more acts we haven't covered yet. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 20:34, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

On the "masa"/contemporary MOR radio format

We currently have background history of the popular masa aka "contemporary MOR" radio format on the Filipino nationalism and the presidency of Joseph Estrada pages, but there is also a lack of sources regarding especially its introduction by the NTC and its adoption by the major FM radio networks (such as Love Radio, Yes FM, Star FM, iFM, Barangay LS). Well, I have a draft version of a discussion of that said format, which I am planning to add as a subsection of the adult contemporary music page as one of the variations of the associated radio format. Would appreciate any help adding RS to back those. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 17:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Bumping up. Anyone interested? TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 04:20, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
Bumping again. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 20:47, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Lack of Filipino folk arts

It has come to my attention that Wikipedia lacks info about Filipino folk arts. Some Filipino folk song's pages aren't made yet, and in the folk section of Dance in the Phillipines a plethora of some dance's pages haven't been created. Obviously I'm not trying to say that we should add EVERY SINGLE BIT. But it would be nice to add others. (This was originally posted on the village pump, until I decided it's would be better to post it here too. I am a new user, so it's would take some time for me too learn the rules of making Wikipedia pages.) Cyb3rstarzzz (talk) 14:17, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Cyb3rstarzzz, regarding making pages a simple first step would be to identify a good source on the topic, either on folk arts in general or a specific folk art. The higher the quality of the source the better. From there, find a couple more sources and creating the article should flow from that. CMD (talk) 14:44, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for the advice, CMD! I'll make sure to make their Wikipedia pages as soon as I can. Cyb3rstarzzz (talk) 15:18, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Excessive images in Arts in the Philippines

Arts in the Philippines has excessive images. Maybe we can at least reduce the gallery images per section to five or four? I tried removing several images, but it still needs a major cleanup. Sanglahi86 (talk) 03:54, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Much of this might be a function of a lack of existing subarticles, or limited development/connection with the subarticles. The gallery image of T'nalak for example is not included in the main article. CMD (talk) 06:15, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
I am at a loss right now on what to do. Do you have any suggestions? Sections Pottery, Woodcarving, Basketry, and Maritime transport currently have about 15 to 16 images in their respective galleries. Sanglahi86 (talk) 07:38, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
In an ideal world we would have separate articles for all those topics (List of Philippine boats and ships is basically a disambiguation page and doesn't count), but in the meantime, there are many specific articles where some of these images might be already, and if these are mentioned in the text then nothing is really lost removing them. If you're unsure and don't want to lose images, you could comment them out within the gallery which leaves them in the html for later editing but reduces the large galleries. CMD (talk) 08:14, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the insights and tips. I added some hatnotes in the article and also related article requests in Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/Requests in the hope that someone might create them. Regards. Sanglahi86 (talk) 08:33, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Too many articles have excessive amount of images. Just WP:Be bold and remove them, using MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE and WP:IG as your guide. -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 12:59, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
    The risk of applying imagerelevance to tightly at the high-level articles is that it removes content that would be great on lower-level articles. Sometimes the images are all easily preserved in a commons category, but at this high level such categories are often chopped up and it's hard to find them as a group. CMD (talk) 02:29, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
@Chipmunkdavis@P199@Sanglahi86 relevant images should stay. The excess ones, should be at a Commons gallery article, preferably c:Art of the Philippines (to be consistent with the category attached to that article). JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 12:35, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
I'm not sure how there could be "too much images" in an article about ART. But I see your point, maybe 2 images per example should do. Cyb3rstarzzz (talk) 03:38, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

1,000 Challenge

Do you think we should create a 1,000 Challenge for Tambayan Philippines? The challenge can/will be similar to Wikipedia:WikiProject India/The 10,000 Challenge and Wikipedia:WikiProject Asia/The 10,000 Challenge, reaching out for your thoughts. TheNuggeteer (talk) 13:25, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

A focus on destubbing existing articles might be good. Sanglahi86 (talk) 15:49, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
Taps sign: Wikipedia:2024 Developing Countries WikiContest. On the topic of the 10,000 challenges, I've added to a few but I'm not convinced they actually work. Far too long a timeframe and large a target to engage active participation, especially when you can just track new articles within a particular category. 1,000 is obviously a magnitude better, but it feels similarly diffuse at a human level. CMD (talk) 16:29, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
@Chipmunkdavis Maybe like a de-stubbing task force or something? TheNuggeteer (talk) 04:51, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
Sure! My issue is not with the task, it's about picking a goal that is more tangible than 1000/10000. CMD (talk) 05:27, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
@Sanglahi86 Are you okay with creating a task force? TheNuggeteer (talk) 05:34, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
@Chipmunkdavis I created the task force, you can see it here. TheNuggeteer (talk) 07:54, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
@Sanglahi86 Seems good too. TheNuggeteer (talk) 01:21, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
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