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Translating between different language versions of Wikipedia

Hi to the Teahouse,

I wish clarification about translating in toto an English Wikipedia article (in this case "Universal Serial Bus") to that of another language (e.g. Ukrainian). I have the means to translate (a current dual-language technical dictionary) and the background knowledge (I'm a student in electronic engineering) plus access to a two accredited translators (who were, funnily enough, electronic engineers), who can check my work before I post it.

I've checked the Editing introductory pages and the Style Manual as well as the Mini Style Manual, but both are largely silent on the matter. I have searched Wikipaedia and come across some articles that cite primary articles within Wikipedia in another article, in that they are "based" on an Wikipedia article in another language, but nothing about total translation. 12:17, 15 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by My Other Head (talk • contribs) I should add that I have first hand competence in the language that I wish to translate to.My Other Head (talk) 12:26, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello, My Other Head! Welcome to Wikipedia, and thank you very much for your interest in expanding content.
The rules regarding importing translations from English Wikipedia on the Ukrainian Wikipedia will be decided by them; each project has its own policies and governance. However, there is some guidance on how it is done on English Wikipedia at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia#Translating from other language Wikimedia Projects that may be helpful. They may not have the template at the Ukrainian project, but the note in edit summary is important to give credit to the original. See Help:Edit summary if you're not familiar with them. :)
For more specific information, you might want to reach out to the Ukrainian community. Their help page is located at uk:Вікіпедія:Довідка.
Good luck, and thank you again. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:48, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi. To cite one recent example that I know of, es:mapa isócrono is a translation of isochrone map. I'm not sure how relevant that will be to your question, but thought I'd mention it just in case. Good luck! -- Trevj (talk) 23:26, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for your responses, Trevj and Moonridden Girl. I checked the es:mapa isócrono page. However, I notice that on the page, there is no citation of the original article (I'm presuming the Spanish page was translated from the English page). Also there is no discussion/links on the matter in the Discussion pages of either. In my case I have notified the page editors of my intentions in the Discussion pages , and seeking their opinions first. I think it prudent to tread lightly at first, before going for the whole schmeer. Softly, softly, catchee monkey. Also I'm in no hurry - I still have to get Wikipedia policies and SOPs of both projects familiarised, before I'm in a position to edit or post. The actual translation is the easy part. My Other Head (talk) 05:09, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi again. es:Discusión:Mapa isócrono includes a link to both the original English article and its history. You're right that there's no link from the English talk page to the Spanish one, although that could easily be included. -- Trevj (talk) 18:00, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Meeting what is needed

I work for a large company and it seems daft we are not on Wikipedia. Now, I do understand that the aim of the site is not to promote companies, but how do I get a simple, neutral and factual entery on there? My first attempt below was rejected?

"Hinduja Global Solutions (HGS)UK limited is a UK-based customer management outsourcing business which was formerly Careline Services limited.

They have three UK call centres (Chiswick, Preston & Selkirk) and are part the HGS group which is a global out-sourcing company with a presence in North America, Europe, Asia, and Africa".

Conan.white (talk) 09:46, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Conan, and welcome to the Teahouse. If you haven't done so already, be sure to read about conflict of interest and neutral point of view and make sure you have independent reliable sources. The best thing is to request that someone else create the article, because while you may have the best of intentions, it is difficult to write about a subject you are connected with in a neutral way.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 18:34, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
One more detail. Notability is also a requirement.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 18:57, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
It's also worth being aware that the vast majority of requests for someone else to create an article are never answered or acted upon. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:26, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
BTW, are you aware that the page Hinduja Global Solutions Limited already exists? Rojomoke (talk) 21:12, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

How can I prove authenticity of my article without online reference.

Hi all

I am in a problem, I have edited an article which is an entertainment category. the link below. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_creation/The_Adventures_of_Montu_miah

This is a 3D cartoon created in Bangladesh which was the first cartoon as a serial or appearance. This was released back in 2000-2001. All the major news papers and magazines of that time appreciated and welcome this Cartoon for its unique nature.

But unfortunately Bangladeshi newspapers and magazines didn't have an online edition on that time. So I dig some of there hardcopy archive and posted the publishing dates with issue number even page reference and also posted two scan photos of those newspaper and magazine.

I also added a Reference link of the Software publisher [poser] as they have posted an online interview With the makers of the Cartoon.

What can I do at this moment to prove this article as a authentic one? What kind of reference shall I include? NO digital archive is available!

And this cartoon is a part of Bangladeshi entertainment History.

Please help.

Thanks in advance.


Sjmahmood (talk) 12:35, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello Sjmahmood and welcome to the teahouse. I am not exceedingly familiar with consensus regarding using print articles as sources, but some good places to start might be WP:VERIFY, WP:RELIABLE, and WP:OFFLINE. Note that the first two are policies and the third is an essay. ⁓ Hello71 00:02, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
I am pretty familiar with this, so I will help out. Print is fine. We assume good faith with respect to print sources unless there is reason to think otherwise. Be sure to gave the full bibliographic reference to where it was originally published. That way, some day when they do get digitized, people will be able to find them in the dital version also. Since some of these might be hard to find even in print, it might help to give the name of the library where you saw it, if you did see it in a library. The other thing that helps is to give short -- repeat, short -- quotations of a key sentence in context--if it was not published in English, give it in the original, adding your own English translation. (For anyone watching, please note you have to actually see the source--you should not add a source based only on a title in a library catalog, for you have no way of knowing if it's relevant. If you add it on the basis of it being used in a reliable source you did see, give the names of both the original, and where you found it.) DGG ( talk ) 17:47, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Seeking the option to create new page NOT to ask that it be created

Creating my first wiki page. Cleared it, there is no existing page for what I am creating. Seeking the option to create a new page and can only find the option to request that one be created. 208.117.125.120 (talk) 19:07, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Please see Articles for Creation (AfC) to submit a new article for review. However, you may wish to create an account since unregistered users cannot create articles directly – they must be submitted through Articles for Creation. The Anonymouse (talk • contribs) 19:11, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
I would also suggest going through AfC (linked in Anonymouse's post). If you create an account and an article, it is going to get a lot more scrutiny than if it goes through AfC. It also may get speedy deleted or sent to articles for deletion. However, it's rare that an article accepted through AfC is deleted or even proposed for deletion, so that's your best bet. Also, you can do that without even taking the time to make an account. Hope this helps! gwickwire | Leave a message 19:22, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello 208.117.125.120, and thanks for stopping by the treehouse. You can create an article right away without having to go through the AFC process; that is you can do exactly what you are asking for. What you need to do is create a new account. Only people with a registerred account have the option to create pages. Registerring is free, easy, and requires no personally identifying information or anything else except a username and password. Now, we recommend that new users, unfamiliar with Wikipedia policies and guideline use the Articles for Creation process because more often than not, creating your own article causes you to get very mad at Wikipedia for all of the reasons noted above. But there is no requirement to do so, and you are encouraged to go ahead and try it out yourself. So, go ahead and create an account and then you can create a new page all by yourself, just as you want to. Does that help? --Jayron32 22:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Can I make private pages?

Can I make private pages. Matthewshill (talk) 23:55, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Matthew! All pages on Wikipedia are public; is there a reason you want it private? Go Phightins! 02:17, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi Matthew, welcome to the Teahouse! Yes, all Wikipedia pages are public — however, you can privately make your own "mini-wikipedia", just for your use: check out this page. :) —Theopolisme 02:43, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi Matthews, Maybe what you are asking is user pages:
  • You could create a page at User:Matthewshill to talk briefly about your interests and your activity on Wikipedia.
  • You could create temporary draft articles and other pages to facilitate your work on Wikipedia at User:Matthewshill/sandbox and/or other names beginning User:Matthewshill/
Other people could see those pages. And although other people could edit them, they are unlikely to do so. —teb728 t c 02:56, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
OK Matthewshill (talk) 11:36, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
I don't think so, with the exception of your Sandbox. But I'm still not sure if that is completely private.

Sheldonc1981 (talk) 17:12, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

User: GSK

Hi, I am having trouble with GSK on Wikipedia. Can you help?King of Editing (talk) 05:38, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi and welcome to the Teahouse! GSK is an experienced editor here on Wikipedia. I am in the process of reviewing your interactions with him, but it seems to me that most of what he's said to you thus far is justified. As for the sockpuppetry allegations, I don't know. I have very little insight in to those types of investigations. I'm afraid you'll have to let that run its course. In the interim, I would encourage you to find an area of interest to you on Wikipedia. Looking through your editing history, it does unfortunately appear as if you've made a few unconstructive edits, but perhaps you could turn that around. You seem to have an interest in Spaceflight. Why not join the Spaceflight Wiki-Project, where editors with an interest in the topic collaborate to improve Wikipedia's coverage of it. I only am familiar with one editor involved there, but it is one editor I regard highly, so I'm sure the project does good work, work that you can be a part of. Thanks again for dropping by the Teahouse, and please don't hesitate to return should you have any further questions. Happy Thanksgiving, Go Phightins! 05:47, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

"PD"

Hi, does anyone know what "PD" means?King of Editing (talk) 17:20, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi and welcome to the teahouse! I've most often seen it used to mean "public domain". Images and text that are in the public domain meet Wikipedia's licensing requirements. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:26, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
If context is provided, we can try to figure it out. --RAT -.- Poke it 15:39, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, KoE, in the context which you are not telling us about but which is the uploading of images, PD stands for public domain. A PD image is one where the author has released all copyright - the image may be copied and re-used in any way without reference back to the author. I must stress that this is a rare situation for images. The vast majority of images are protected in some way. The most severe is "all rights reserved" which is self-explanatory - you may not copy it or do anything with it. One suitable for Wikimedia projects is {{cc-by-sa-3.0}} - read the licence text. Before you even think about uploading another image, I suggest you do the following: prepare a list of images which you have found on the web. For each image you must give us a link to the page in which it can be found and a link to the image itself. Let us see the list and we will tell you which images are suitable for Wikipedia. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 17:25, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Deleting Uploaded Images

Hi I uploaded two images but I need to delete them. One of them has the wrong author (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ignasi_Miquel.jpg), and one of them I own (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Queen_Mary,_University_of_London_Golf_Club.png) but I would like to edit it first. How do I go about deleting these promptly? I'm new to this... Rambo.XIV (talk) 15:43, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

  • Hey Rambo, thanks for stopping by The Teahouse. Both of your files are on Wikipedia Commons, which is another place images can be uploaded for use on Wikipedia. The links are slightly different on Commons; here is the first file, and here is the second. You are able to able to request deletion of images you have uploaded yourself, but you need to have a compelling reason to do so, which you can read about here. Once you have a reason, there are links on the lefthand side of the screen on the image pages under the "Toolbox" header, and one of them is "Nominate for deletion." Once you have discussed a reason, the image will be reviewed by an administrator on Wikipedia Commons. I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 16:32, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

What's up with this?

I just transcluded my tabs subpage onto my guestbook and for reasons unknown to man (or to me anyway), the link to my awards page and to my guestbook are captioned as a link to my To Do page, which actually doesn't even exist. I also have the tabs transcluded onto my user page and my user talk page and the problem has not shown up there. Does anyone know what might be the trouble? AutomaticStrikeout 02:13, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Hey ASO. Well, you know me, I know very little about templates and transclusion and the technical side of Wikipedia, but that certainly stumps me. Have you asked at the Technical Village Pump yet? Someone there might have a little more insight. Go Phightins! 02:30, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I asked there. AutomaticStrikeout 02:35, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 Problem solved! AutomaticStrikeout 02:54, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

creating a new page

Hello, I'm trying to create a new page. I move it, but the title comes out: "Wikipedia: Michael John Miller (Pilates Instructor)" not: Michael John Miller (Pilates Instructor) I don't understand why. Can you help? Thank you, Edit16180339 (talk) 16:28, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit161, welcome to the Teahouse. Within Wikiepdia there are several namespaces, you mistakenly moved your draft article to the Wikipedia namespace which is for information and discussion about Wikipedia itself (this page for example is within the Wikipedia namespace). General articles live within the Main namespace, I understand why this may have confused you, you weren't the first and you won't be the last to make the same error but when moving articles into main space you need to select from the first dropdown in the move dialog the option (Article). I've now moved your page for you to main space but it does need significant work on it, at least some references about Miller to avoid deletion. NtheP (talk) 16:45, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Well that helps, thank you! What counts as references that still have a npov? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edit16180339 (talk • contribs) 16:52, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Put simply, sources that are independent of Miller and are more than just passing mentions of him. So his own website is not a reliable source and a directory of pilates instructors would only be a passing mention but something like a review of him in maazine about pilates would be acceptable. NtheP (talk) 17:10, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I added a reference. Would you check please and see what you think? Thank you. Edit16180339 (talk) 17:55, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

As long as it's not an advert it seems ok. NtheP (talk) 18:04, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
the reference may or may not be be OK--a single page magazine article is not necessarily substantial, but the WP article you wrote is a pure advertisement. I accordingly deleted it, and you will find a fuller explanation on your user talk page. DGG ( talk ) 18:20, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Transferring pictures from German language version to English language version

Is it possible to use the same pictures that appear on a German language page on the English version that I want to set up? I mean, without downloading them and uploading them again? How? Thanks. Seniorps (talk) 15:36, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Seniorps, welcome to the teahouse. A great many images from the German language Wikipedia pages are hosted at Wikimedia Commons, and can therefore be used without downloading and uploading them again. To find out where an image is hosted, just click on the image - if it mentions Commons on the resulting page, then the filename (like File:Horse.jpg) can be used back on the English Wikipedia in exactly the same way as it's used on the German Wikipedia. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 16:07, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

What are some easy ways to contribute to Wikipedia?

Active Wiki Fixup Projects
Main · Inactive · Mini

Hi! I've already made some contributions to Wikipedia however it's mostly just fixing grammar or adding wiki links on articles that I find through Special:Random. Is there any (fun!) activities that help improve Wikipedia, or is what I'm doing now just fine? Bui (talk) 03:19, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi and welcome to the Teahouse. Thanks for your contributions; they're greatly appreciated. There are numerous ways that you can go about finding articles to edit. If you have a particular interest area, you could join a corresponding Wiki-Project, where groups of editors with similar interests collaborate on projects related to whatever that topic is. You could also allow the Suggest Bot recommend articles you may be interested in based on your editing history that need improvement. Or, you could continue doing what you're doing, which is also helpful to Wikipedia. Whatever you choose, you can rest assured that your contributions are helping to build a collection of the world's knowledge into a free encyclopedia that anyone can edit or use. Please don't hesitate to come back should you have any further questions. Happy editing! Go Phightins! 03:28, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello Bui, glad to hear you enjoy helping out! Like Phightins notes, you can join a WikiProjet for a particular topic you enjoy (such as WP:WikiProject Japan, or WP:WikiProject Film for example) and ask them what they need help with in maintaining the project. If you're less wanting to focus on specific topics, and more on improving the structure of Wikipedia, there are a number of projects devoted to Wiki repairs and building, such as adding categories to articles that are missing them, adding wikilinks to articles lacking them, helping add references to unreferenced articles, etc. I'm pasting up a list of such projects to the right, so take a glance at those as well and see if any look good to you. MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:49, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Whoops, it's displaying down below the Table of Contents at right; page layout issue. So scroll down there, or see it at this link: Template:MiniAWFP.

How can I upload a photo for the logo of a children's television show?

Hello. I am JHUbal27 and I want to upload a photo for the children's TV show Get Squiggling. How can I upload the photo? How do I know what the copyright information is?[1]Thank you. JHUbal27

  1. ^ "Get Squiggling Episode List". Retrieved November 22, 2012.

Hi JHUbal27, and a very very warm welcome to the Teahouse! First, right click the photo of your choice and click the Save Image option. Next, upload it on Wikipedia! See the Upload file option in the "Toolbox"? It's conveniently located on the left! Click it! And start the file upload wizard... And do the necessary things, which are explained in simple terms to you on the upload form. Remember to tag it as non free! Cheers. Bonkers The Clown (Nonsensical Babble) 04:26, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello JUHbal, just to follow up, once you've started the File Upload Wizard, for a logo you'll choose the This is a copyrighted, non-free work, but I believe it is Fair Use. on Step 3, and of the further options it gives you you'll pick This is a logo of an organization, company, brand, etc. Just be sure to check the form carefully to make sure you selected the right details and gave the right info. Understandably, Wikipedia is very careful about labeling copyrighted material properly so we don't infringe on anyone's rights or break any laws. A limited variety of images (logos, photographs of deceased people, covers of books/albums/movies) can be used under WP:Fair use with specific restrictions, thus the importance of proper labeling as "Fair Use" on the upload. Also note that a Fair Use image can only be used on the article it precisely corresponds to (the logo image can only be used on the company of the logo). Hope this helps! MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:56, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

User pages

I have seen some users who's pages have some badges on the right side. how do you get these? Remember, Remember the Fifth of November... 22:40, 22 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by The True V (talk • contribs)

Hellow The True V! Thanks for stopping by the Teahouse. There is no official "awards" sanctioning at Wikipedia, but there are lots of informal awards that people give each other as a form of encouragement. Wikipedia:Awards has links to many of the various awards, badges, citations, etc. given out at Wikipedia. Does that help? --Jayron32 00:52, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi, V! I think you may be speaking of userboxes, those little boxes that tell people about you? if you go to Category:Userboxes, you will find links to hundreds of them. Or if you see one you like on another editor's userpage, you can open there page in edit mode, copy the code for the userbox and paste it on your page. Hope that helps! As an example, the Teahouse host userbox looks loike this:
This user likes the
Wikipedia Teahouse
drop in and take a look

It's code looks like this: {{User:Penyulap/UBX/PenTea3}} Come back if we can be of more assistance! Gtwfan52 (talk) 02:47, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

V, to add to this you can group userboxes together on your userpage using the templates {{userboxtop}} and {{userboxbottom}}. These give you quite a lot of control over how they look, how they are titled, where on the page they display, etc. NtheP (talk) 16:50, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Can you change the title of a page?

Hi, I have just updated the profile page of my companies CEO and I would like to know if you can change the title of the page too as it is now different and needs changing to reflect my update - thanks for any help/advice given. AlisonAlison Newman (talk) 12:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Alison, and welcome to the Teahouse! Just to clarify, do you want your page to be moved from Paul Miller (founder, Intranet Benchmarking Forum) to Paul Miller (founder, Digital Workplace Group)? - a boat that can float! (watch me float!) 13:06, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Paul Miller (entrepreneur) or Paul Miller (technologist) - neither of which are already taken - would be better. We don't want to be renaming the article every time there's a corporate reshuffle and every time he starts a new organisation. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 13:50, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello Alison. You are very welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, but I should point out that editors are strongly discouraged from editing pages about companies or people they are closely associated with: see the page on conflict of interest for why, and what the recommended practice is in such cases. --ColinFine (talk) 11:57, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

i need information about the zodiac

the zodiac is one of my favorite subjects, but there is not a lot of info about it on wikipedia. i tried editing a few of the western signs, but i got stricken down. im sorry if i crossed a line, but there used to be more information about it a while ago... im wondering where it went. you can check out my user page if you are interested, its a good read. Stuffed tiger (talk) 04:42, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
EDIT: sorry for not asking a question... if i wanted to add my knowledge of the zodiac to wikipedia, where would be a good place to start? Stuffed tiger (talk) 04:43, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi stuffed tiger, great username you have there, welcome to the teahouse!
Unfortunately, you can't add your personal knowledge of the zodiac to Wikipedia. Wikipedia only needs information that can be verified in reliable sources (for example, existing published books or magazines on the topic, or reputable websites that have a clear editorial policy.)
What you could do is to see what information from reliable sources you have available to you, and then discuss that information on the talk page of articles about the zodiac (including details of the source it comes from), to see if other editors think any of it would be a useful addition to the articles. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 13:54, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't have many sources, but I do trust my own judgement ._. As per your request, I will refrain from entering information that is not reliably sourced. Stuffed tiger (talk) 21:53, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Stuffed Tiger. I understand that you trust your own judgment, as we all do trust our own. The trouble is that I have no idea who you are or how trustworthy you are, just as you know nothing about me: this was summed up in a famous cartoon. That is why we insist on information being verifiable.--ColinFine (talk) 12:01, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Mistyped articale name, need to delte

Hi there,

Essentially I tried to make a page for the hockey player Zach Fucale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zach_Fucale

But I accidently created a page where I ty[ed "Zack" instead of "Zach". I moved all the info to the correct spelling and deleted all the info on the wrong "Zack Fucale" page, but I was wondering if this is enough to permenantly delete this incorrect Zack Fucale page?

Thanks, Matt

Boudreau89 (talk) 03:54, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Matt, welcome to the Tearoom. Just so you know for next time, instead of creating a new copy of the page you could have "moved" the misspelled article. See Wikipedia:Moving a page for how to do that. Given that you did create a new copy, and given that the title was a plausible misspelling, you didn't need to delete the the misspelled copy; instead you could have converted it to a "redirect" by replacing the content with #REDIRECT [[Zach Fucale]]. That way someone searching for the misspelled name would find the good article. Indeed someone did convert it to a redirect. —teb728 t c 08:47, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
And you normally wouldn't need to create the redirect, as a Move would automatically create one. --ColinFine (talk) 12:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Help with page denial because similar topic pages exist already

Hello. I'm new to this so bear with me :-). My submission on Fraternal Benefit Societies was denied because similar topics exist in 3-4 other pages. The trouble is, none of the current pages truly convey with Fraternal Benefit Societies are today. The reviewer asked me to edit/add on to the Mutual Organizations page, but, as previously stated, they are distinct, different entities. My solution was to create this separate "Fraternal Benefit Societies" page, but Matthew Vanitas (graciously) declined and asked that I submit my question here for you all to ponder. What would you recommend? I believe that if I try to "edit" of the existing pages I'll largely overwrite them entirely, which I'm sure Wiki doesn't want me to do...Ninalill (talk) 21:55, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Article in question is Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Fraternal benefit society
Ninalill, welcome to the Teahouse. Perhaps a start would be to edit the page on Mutual organizations to include a section that defines each of the different types of organization and explain, succinctly, how they are all distinct from each other. Once you have established that distinction then it may be that each can, if not already, be expanded from a couple of paragraphs into a free standing article. NtheP (talk) 23:05, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello. I guess my preference then, if I can't have a new separate page, would be to edit the "Benefit Society" page already on Wiki. My goal would be that if someone is searching for information about Fraternal Benefit Socieities they would find this page, rather than be redirectd to "Mutual Organizations" which I still believe is way too broad and ambiguous (and commercial-focused) for me to even edit to define Fraternal Benefit Socieities. Do I have Wiki's OK to proceed? I would like to think that after all the time I've invested here I'll actually wind up with a page that reflects what Fraternal Benefit Societies are. Ninalill (talk) 15:16, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I'm not clear on what is meant by "Mutual organizations". The link above is red, and yet Ninalill is referring to an article that exists and has problems.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 18:43, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
the actual page title is Mutual organization -- we always use the singular form. When there's a plural form that makes sense, we add the plural is a redirect page that links to the actual one. When you put in the link, you can write it like [[singular]]s with the "s" outside the parenthesis -- it will appear in the article as if the s were part of the link. DGG ( talk ) 17:50, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
Checking the two pages in their current form, they are substantially different. I've accordingly moved your article to mainspace. It would help , just as Nthep says, to clarify the distinction in a paragraph. Please also check you article and adjust the tome a little--it should be more formal, stating facts, not conclusions. DGG ( talk ) 18:27, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

How can I upload a photo for the logo of a children's television show?

Hello. I am JHUbal27 and I want to upload a photo for the children's TV show Get Squiggling. How can I upload the photo? How do I know what the copyright information is?

As the logo will be copyrighted you will have to upload as Non-free content, see File:Teletubbies logo.gif as example. Traveler100 (talk) 16:34, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Editors who refuse to accept correct info

I recently edited an article on the ruba'i, stating that in Persian verse the ruba'i was written as a couplet with each line divide into hemistiches and rhymes falling on the middle and end of each line. This I supported with the following:

"The ruba'i, pronounced rubā'ī, plural rubā'īyāt, is a two-lined stanza of Persian poetry each line of which divided into two hemistiches making four altogether, hence the name ruba'i, an Arabic word meaning 'foursome' (That was from Peter Avery's Introduction to The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, translated by Peter Avery and John-Heath Stubbs, Penguin Classics, 1981, p.9.)"[1]

"Leaving legend aside, it is sufficient to note that from an early date the term rubā'i began to be used for a poem having two main characteristics:

(1)two verses (bait) or four hemistiches (mișrā'), with a rhyme scheme aaaa or aaba; (2)the metre known in Arabic terminology as hazaj ...."[2]

That was from the article "The Rubā'ī in Early Persian Literature" (written by L. P. Elwell-Sutton in The Cambridge History of Iran, v. 4, edited by R. N. Frye, Cambridge University Press, 1999, p.634.) When the editor (who calls himself Justice007) asked for proof I gave him the above and here's what he said:

"It seems to me a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and I am not a person who casts pearls before swine. You read only the books but I have experience of both reading and writing classical and very technical rubaiyaat. I do not need your certificate, mind your own business and happy editing as the wiki rules." This is coming from someone who is a journalist and only has a masters degree (whereas my sources were from some of the most eminent scholars in the field.)

to top that off, he even brought friends in to support his incorrect claims, for instance a friend of his (referring to himself as Drmies said "tweak. writer, justice has the more correct reading.") But it's plainly obvious that he doesn't (if one reads my sources.) I've sought every possible way to address this but Wikipedia has failed to lift a finger. I'm at the point of giving up on Wikipedia: if "knowledge by consensus" means that even well-sourced, reliable, information can be tossed out because of the editor's subjective views on the subject (which he insists are correct when they clearly aren't), I'm not sure that I want any part in such a fraud. Please advise. Writer83175 (talk) 03:05, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello Writer, and welcome to the Teahouse! We're glad to have you! First of all, is this the same issue that is at Dispute Resolution right now? If it is, I can assure you that there are great people that work there to help resolve conflicts. I volunteer there myself when I can, and it's a great process that proves to have results. It looks like a volunteer hasn't gotten around to researching and opening your case there, but once that case is open I'm sure it'll be resolved. You did the right thing by requesting for a calm resolution to the dispute, as some people would have just become heated and given up. If you'd like to post your sources here for us to look at, I wouldn't mind giving them a quick look over, or if there's anything else you need help with, we're always here to help! gwickwire | Leave a message 03:54, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Can't get my article submitted

Hi,

I have created an article on "Budhal Faqir". I can't seem to get it published. I have put the reference related to the information. Still it is bouncing back....asking me Edit in "Articles of Creating". Help me out plz119.154.197.94 (talk) 10:09, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Above is self-identifying as account User:Tariqhl (talk).
Hello IP, editors who are not registered can still make articles, but their articles have to go through WP:Articles for creation. AFC means that volunteer editors will review your article, suggest changes, and if it meets standards approve and publish it. If you sign up for a Wikipedia account (totally free and takes less than five minutes), you can make an article without using AFC; however AFC is still a good option to use, since many brand-new editors don't get their first articles right, get them deleted, and have to start over. Rather than trying to do an article all alone, AFC can be a very helpful process and avoid the dangers of deletion.
Please consider either registering a Wikipedia account and using the WP:Article Wizard to guide you through writing, and then submit to AFC, or else keep editing as an IP but go through AFC to get your first article approved so everything will be correct when it published. Hope this helps! MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:18, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
I presume IP 119 is the author of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Budhal Faqir, in which case they are already registered. As for the article, its big problem is probably the effusive language, for example "opened his eyes in the village of Baksh Unar" probably means "born in Baksh Unar", etc. The long poem is unnecessary too. Personally, apart from that I think the article may be acceptable - it is about a sufi 'saint' and has several book sources listed. Sionk (talk) 16:11, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Why does my name appear in Red Color

Please tell me why my name The iWriter appears in Red Color on Wikipedia

Thanks

iWriterThe iWriter (talk) 08:44, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi and welcome to the Teahouse! Well, you have this problem simply because you haven't created a User page. Hope this helps. Cheers. Have fun editing! :) Bonkers The Clown (Nonsensical Babble) 09:10, 24 November 2012 (UTC)


Hi, and welcome, once again, to the Teahouse! To create such a page, click on the red link, insert content into the edit box (similar to what you did to post this question), and click save. The page link will turn blue. Cheers, Buggie111 (talk) 20:42, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

I want to create a New Page and since i am a New User can you guide me plz

Hi

I am interested in creating a page on Leela Bordia, whose name is synonymous with Blue Pottery of Jaipur.

Can any one guide me plz

The iWriter The iWriter (talk) 06:23, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi The iWriter and welcome to the Teahouse. Does Wikipedia:Your first article tell you what you want? —teb728 t c 07:50, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Yes it does help out a lot. I am sincerely obliged by your prompt response.

Thanks and regards once more

The iWriter The iWriter (talk) 08:18, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Greeting iWriter, since your article is a biography, I just wanted to remind you to check Wikipedia:Notability (people) before starting to familiarise yourself with the sourcing requirements for biographies. Also, you may want to draft the article in your sandbox (click User:The iWriter/Leela Bordia to start it) because if you start a bio draft in the mainspace and haven't gotten around to putting in references yet, the New Page Patrol will probably delete it, as unreferenced biographies (especially living people) are considered unsafe to the reputation of the subject.
The great news is that it appears Bordia is quite notable, recognised for her pottery skills by academics and the media. Before you start drafting, I would suggest you check GoogleBooks for the several mentions of her there, and then check the rest of Google for news media articles that support the details of her life. Remember, every fact stated in a bio should be footnoted to a source (see WP:Referencing for beginners), so please don't include things you happen to know personally, or "everybody knows" unless it can be properly sourced. Hope this helps! MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:24, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Article submission by Penieldaniels

In reference to Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/el Mafrex

I created an Article, I would like to know how long it will take for it to be approved. Can some one also help me check if my referencing is okay. Penieldaniels (talk) 21:34, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello Penieldaniels, unfortunately it appears the Wiki 'bot thinks your article is a copyright violation of http://www.elmafrexonline.com/aboutelmafrex.htm . Did you just copy and paste from that website to make your article? If so, it can't publish, or even be visible as a draft, since it infringes on that website's copyright. You can, of course, still write an article from scratch about el Mafrex, provided he meets the guidelines of WP:Notability (please do check to make sure there), but you can't copy someone else's work without permission. MatthewVanitas (talk) 04:09, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
What bot? Tijfo098 (talk) 10:22, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
It actually wasn't a bot but a human, User:Shaz0t (who has since been blocked for abusing multiple accounts).
Penieldaniels, it looks like you didn't outright copy the other page but may have copied some striking phrases from it. —teb728 t c 11:10, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Thank you teb728, for identifying that. Will continue my corrections and please feel free to edit it as well. Penieldaniels (talk) 14:12, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello guys, I have just submitted the article again, help me check if it is okay. Penieldaniels (talk) 18:49, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

why teahouse Web page is too long!?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.115.213.115 (talk • contribs) 09:39, 25 November 2012‎

Welcome to The Teahouse. It's a little difficult to know what part of The Teahouse you're referring to in your question up top. You can clarify if you want. If you're referring to this Q&A page, one reason it is kept a bit on the long side is because we want to keep questions visible on here for little while before they get archived and are harder for new users to find if they come back here looking for an answer. We do get a lot of questions, so they don't stay on this page for too long, hence the need to keep a good number of questions on here at a time. I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 20:57, 25 November 2012 (UTC)


I recieved an rror message while trying to create an article

Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page, but the references will not show without a {{Reflist}} template or a <references /> tag; I need some instruction on how to use a reflist template withe the <ref> tags. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shomburg (talk • contribs) 20:56, 25 November 2012‎

I added some nowiki tags to the preceding question to get it to display correctly. - David Biddulph (talk) 21:13, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Hey Shomburg, and welcome! What the error is saying that your references are cited using <ref> </ref> tags, but there isn't anywhere for the references to show up, because the ref tags are in a kind of code limbo, if you want to call it that. Basically, all you need to do is go to the bottom of the article, and make a new level 2 heading (==Heading==) , and under the heading place {{reflist}}. You can copy paste the template by the way :) . That way, the references that you cited with <ref> </ref> tags will show up. Does that help? If you want to post a link to the article here, I'd be happy to take a look at it for you. If you need any more help, don't hesitate to reply here, or on my talk page. Hope this helps! gwickwire | Leave a message 22:57, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
See this change to your sandbox article. - David Biddulph (talk) 23:39, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi, shomburg! I took a look at your article too. One thing I wanted to point out to you is a small problem with references. It may seem kinda counter-intuitive but you cannot use Wikipedia as a reference. Those references will need to be removed. But you can turn some of the things you were referencing with Wikipedia into what are called "wiki links". You do this by enclosing the exact title of the wiki article in two brackets at each end. So to make Loud Records a wiki link you would type [[Loud Records]]. This will make it appear blue and be a hyperlink to that article thus: Loud Records. Happy editing! Gtwfan52 (talk) 01:14, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

New page heading

Hi, My name is lakelady2282 and I created a page today with the incorrect spelling of a person's name. In my Ostrovo Unit page I listed Mary de Garis as one of the Australian Doctors who worked there. To create her new page I clicked on the red entry in Ostrovo Unit and created her page but unfortunately the spelling was wrong. It should be Mary De Garis. I can't seem to change the actual top title. Can someone please help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_de_Garis ThanksLakelady2282 (talk) 09:22, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

I have change it. To do this at the top of the page next to the star is a drop down arrow with the option Move. This will rename a page. --Traveler100 (talk) 09:42, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Opening paragraph question

How should an opening paragraph be handled for an article about two people when one of the two is living and the other is deceased? I have a specific article in mind about a married couple. I'm wondering if there are guidelines already in place for this situation before I make an edit (or post on the talk page). I couldn't find anything in the help section. Any advice would be appreciated. Kristephanie (talk) 02:25, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Kristephanie and welcome to the Teahouse! I believe the guideline you're looking for is WP:LEAD; what article are you talking about? Perhaps I can provide some specific guidance. Go Phightins! 02:32, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi. The article I'm thinking about is for Jerald and Sandra Tanner. Currently Jerald is the sole subject of the opening sentence and I wanted to edit it so that both of them would be the subject as they are both named in the article title, but he isn't living and she is... What would you do? Leave it? Or is there a standard way to handle this situation? Kristephanie (talk) 09:10, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Whoever the genius was who wrote to you that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" ought to get the citation right. It's, "A little learning is a dangerous thing." Vagevuur777 (talk) 00:52, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Spelling

What is the easiest way to spell-check? How does one decide between using British and US spelling - my first subject matter is American but I'm British? Thank you Teckelberg7Teckelberg7 (talk) 14:16, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello Teckelberg. If the subject is American use US spelling. The local spelling for subjects with a clear national identity should be used. Where it is a general subject the convention is that the style in which it was first written is preserved. I too would like to know if it is possible to have a spell checker working in the edit window. I expect other hosts will be able to help here. Otherwise you can write the text in a Word document and cut/paste it into the wiki.--Charles (talk) 14:22, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
(ec) The easiest way to spell-check for me is using the Firefox browser which will automatically underline words that are likely misspellings. There may be a plugin for your browser that will do this for you.
The appropriate guideline for choosing which version of English is WP:ENGVAR and it goes beyond US and UK spellings.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 14:23, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
I use Firefox but this is not happening for me. Any suggestions?--Charles (talk) 14:28, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Take a look at this document which may help. Mine worked automatically as I recall but this may be nothing more than you need to enable within your preferences.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 14:41, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Hehe, try right clicking inside an edit window and then check the pop-up menu which should have the option.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 14:43, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks.--Charles (talk) 14:47, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Thank you friends for your helpful responses.

I checked the guideline and noted, "an article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the English of that nation." Sound advice when the subject is unambiguously American, British, Jamaican or whatever; but what would be recommended when the subject crossed the pond, to stay on the other side? T S Eliot, an American who took on British nationality. W H Auden born in England became a US citizen. I don't know enough about them to say if the poets changed their spelling rules too when they took on new citizenship? But I digress, as my present subject is thoroughly American I will aim for US spelling. Thank you again and thanks too for the tips on spell-checking. 77.250.2.174 (talk) 15:30, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello. If there's not a compelling logical reason to use one regional variant over the other, we usually stick with the variant already used in the article. The articles on major literary figures such as Eliot and Auden will have existed for a long time, so it's likely the use of one variant will be well established at both. If in doubt, you could ask at the article's talk page. And don't sweat it: if you say "flavor" where "flavour" is the preferred choice, it's not a big deal; someone will probably just fix it. Rivertorch (talk) 08:51, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Frost

How is frost made108.172.79.37 (talk) 05:45, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! The Teahouse is for asking questions about editing Wikipedia. You should ask your question at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science. They should be able to help you. Cheers,--xanchester (t) 05:47, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Pic change

I am brand new - asked to make changes to a wiki page and need to know how to change the main page pic. Help! Liloltiny1 (talk) 03:35, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the teahouse. If you're referring to the main page picture, to discuss errors and changes to the main page, visit Talk:Main Page. To change pictures on regular pages, you'll have to replace the picture with a file that has already been uploaded. For example, to change File:Exampleimage1.jpg with File:Exampleimage2.jpg, you'll have to change [[File:Exampleimage1.jpg]] to [[File:Exampleimage2.jpg]]. You can also upload you're own image through Wikipedia:File Upload Wizard, but the image must meet Wikipedia's policies on images. Free images should be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons.--xanchester (t) 03:40, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Take a look

Hi Teahousers..please take a look at an article I have re-worked after it was kicked back from AFC for lack of references and 3rd party notability. I apppreciate your candor and comments. Article is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Video_Quality_in_Public_Safety_Working_Group Thanks, Mejbp (talk) 23:45, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse! Strictly from a reference standpoint, it looks reasonably improved from the last time this article was submitted. I haven't yet gotten a chance to look at the remainder of the article, perhaps another host will get to that before me, but you've definitely put some work into it, and for that you should be commended. Go Phightins! 00:39, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks Go Phightins! Any and all feedback is much appreciated. Mejbp (talk) 01:13, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Reverting

What are the steps to revert an edit? (Monkelese (talk) 21:50, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Monkelese. Assuming it's the most recent edit to the article, go to the "View History" tab in the top right of the page. You'll see a list of all the edits; after each line is a link marked "Undo". Clicking that link on the top edit will open an edit form with the last edit removed; all you need to do is enter an edit summary (such as, "removed unsourced claim" or similar) and save the page. Hope that helps. Yunshui 雲‍水 21:55, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

referencing

how do you repeat a reference (the same reference number) at two separate location withing the same article? Qwertyasdf99 (talk) 20:48, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

OK, this is already answered below. I'll try it. thanks

20:51, 26 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qwertyasdf99 (talk • contribs) Taino19xx (talk) 00:33, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

How do you edit a dablink|List entry?

I found a page where the link does not take you to the correct page section. The URL it is pointing to is incomplete. When I go to edit the entry I see it is not a full URL , but the following:

List: List of Intel Xeon microprocessors#"Sandy Bridge-EP" (32 nm)

I presume it is resolving the URL from a database entry.

Taino19xx (talk) 01:09, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

In Wikipedia, links to internal wiki pages are done through wikilink rather than complete URLs. Linking to a section is done through the code [[pagename#sectionname]] In this case, the link doesn't take you to the appropriate section because the section name is not complete and no section exists by the name "Sandy Bridge-EP" (32 nm) [[List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessors#.22Sandy_Bridge.22_.2832_nm.29]] will take you to the section "Sandy Bridge" (32 nm) and [[List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessors#.22Sandy_Bridge-EP.22_.2832_nm.29_Efficient_Performance]] will take you to the section "Sandy Bridge-EP" (32 nm) Efficient Performance. --Anbu121 (talk me) 07:33, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
I see now. Thanks for the quick response.

Taino19xx (talk) 00:34, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

isn't it wrong to delete a scientific article by poor election and with no scientific reason!?

There are a large number of conference talks in physics. They are often important for example i found that, this article [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estakhr's_Constant_(physics) Estakhr's Constant (physics)] that was deleted. This is very important article so important that alone is a physics cornerstone!. Requests for undeletion Estakhr constant physics as you can see Unfortunately, most people who have commented to delete this article, had little knowledge of physics. isn't it wrong to delete a scientific article by poor election and with no scientific reason!? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neophysics (talk • contribs) 07:28, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Hey, Neophysics, welcome to Wikipedia! Sorry, but the article was deleted appropriately, for a few reasons. First of all, it was unsourced. The only sources cited were blogs and forum posts (the links themselves were mostly dead). Neither blog posts nor forum posts are considered reliable sources for Wikipedia. The thing is that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and encyclopedias don't publish things first. We're a tertiary source: we don't publish things like original research or reviews of original research; that's left to peer-reviewed scientific journals. Once a theory has been published in those journals, we can write about it, but not before then. Second, I'm sorry to say it, but the article was written in English so poor and fragmented as to be incomprehensible. Subjects with no sources that are written in indecipherable prose, making grand claims about physics, are generally given short shrift on Wikipedia, as they appear to be hoaxes.
Now, you do raise an interesting point. How do we know whether people have knowledge of physics? We don't, although I'd be willing to bet good money that they know more physics than you give them credit for. That's why reliable sources are so important at Wikipedia. Because we can't tell who people are, and what their areas of knowledge are, we can only go on what's written in reliable sources. This si why the lack of sources in the article was such a problem: without their backing, we have no idea whether the author knew what they were talking about or if they had just made it up.
I hope this was helpful to you: understanding things like this are key to being able to contribute to Wikipedia successfully. Don't feel bad for getting it wrong! They're pretty tricky things, but it's important to keep them in mind nonetheless. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask again here, or if you prefer, you can ask me on my talk page. Happy editing! Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 08:01, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

original article was not blog posts or forum posts. infact it was a conference talk that was peer-reviewed and accepted by notable physicist: Giovanni Amelino-Camelia

This is obvious reason, this is an authoritative article and notable. Neophysics (talk) 09:39, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to the teahouse. Has it actually been published in a reputable scientific journal? As Writ Keeper has stated, Wikipedia requires multiple independent, published secondary sources that indicate the notability of a subject. If it hasn't even been published in a journal yet, it's very unlikely that an admin will restore the article.--xanchester (t) 09:53, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
I've looked through the program for the 13th Marcel Grossmann Meeting, and I can't find any mention of Estakhr or any talks that he gave, nor any mention that it was accepted or reviewed. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:49, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

I google it, but the paper is still unpublished. no wonder, because there is no physics journal in all over the middle east!. But the physical content of the article is very interesting. but presented, peer-reviewed and accepted in a few prestigious conferences. That's why I've edited it. Neophysics (talk) 12:28, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry but Wikipedia has an official policy of not publishing material until it has been published elsewhere. Try again when it has been published in a reliable source. —teb728 t c 00:45, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

can't we cite article with this point, "This article does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed."? Neophysics (talk) 12:11, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

That tag is used for articles where sources are known to exist, but have not been yet properly cited. For articles where no proper sources are known to exist, then the article is generally deleted. --Jayron32 13:02, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Articles cannot be kept based on future notability.--xanchester (t) 13:11, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

why not!?, This talk has been accepted in a reliable conference. i've seen several physics articles in wikipedia that have not even an accepted talk as a reference!. 65.255.37.179 (talk) 14:03, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Please read the official policies Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability If you seriously think we might change these core policies, go to Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). —teb728 t c 23:54, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
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