Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 August 22

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August 22

Cold remedy from the 60s

I was talking to someone the other day about a cold medicine that was used in the 60s (and maybe later) in the UK where a liquid was heated in a little pan above a tea light candle. This was left in a child's room and the vapour was supposed to aid breathing. We remember being warned that the liquid was extremely poisonous and could be absorbed through the skin - and children had died after spilling this on themselves. We could remember all this, but not what this medicine was. Does anyone else remember this? -- Q Chris (talk) 07:53, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I don't remember it, but I imagine there are things which would work as a decongestant in vapor form which you could overdose on if you drank it, although absorbing enough through the skin to be fatal seems less likely. Peppermint oil is one example. Menthol is the active ingredient, so see Menthol#Toxicology. I once ate a bag of menthol couchcough drops, and my entire jaw went numb, so I can see how you can overdose on it. StuRat (talk) 08:10, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Couch drops? It's a wonder you didn't sofacate.  :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 10:56, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Is that a criticism of my spelling, couched as humor ? :-) StuRat (talk) 20:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Criticism? Never, Stu. I know your spelling is much better than your orthography would indicate. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:25, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

That sounds like Vicks. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 08:17, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

There might be something in inhalant that rings a bell. --ColinFine (talk) 08:24, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Note that Vicks VapoRub is intended to be used on the skin. Its main active ingredients, camphor and menthol, create a sense of heat and release a vapor that relieves congestion as it's inhaled. It certainly avoids the need for a live flame or other heating element near a sick child. The page is tagged as lacking secondary references, but it does mention not putting it on mucous membranes. -- Deborahjay (talk) 10:42, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

It's supposedly very important not to put Vicks VapoRub in your nose. Not because of the active ingredients, but because of the petroleum jelly. If you get petroleum jelly in your lungs, it basically stays there forever, and causes a sort of chronic pneumonia. http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/communications/familymedicine/archives/2001/2452(fm).html --Trovatore (talk) 19:21, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Camphorated oil perhaps? --TammyMoet (talk) 10:43, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

There was something called Wright's Vaporizing Fluid that seems to fit the bill. I remember selling the burners when I worked in Boots as a teenager. Googling Wright's Vaporizing Fluid brings up reports of acute poisonings.83.104.128.107 (talk) 11:54, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Neat. There's an eBay auction with some good photographs here.

There's definitely a candle involved. I love old contraptions like this.

It's not hard to imagine that little brown bottle winding up in a medicine cabinet with all the other little brown bottles and someone making a terrible mistake. APL (talk) 13:51, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

That's the thing, I remember the evaporator! -- Q Chris (talk) 21:22, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Geez, what a terrible product. "Let's just put an open flame and poison in a child's room and see what happens. And is there any way we can add high explosives, while we're at it ?". StuRat (talk) 20:38, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

This sounds like a vaporizer, a type of humidifier that I think Vick's stuff could be added to and theoretically permeate the air. We used to receive that kind of treatment when I was a young'n. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:44, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Where did I go wrong?

Kitty, you're an experienced Wikipedian. You know very well we can't comment on this
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
What to do next? User:Kittybrewster/sandbox Kittybrewster ☎ 09:39, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

General Silence Regarding William Godwin in American Schools and Who to Officially Register a Complaint With

Why are Americans not taught in K-12 or college about William Godwin and the Marquis De Condorcet. Is it not important to know that they are responsible for women and minorities being allowed to attend public school? What official should I be complaining to that could actually change the curriculum, would that be the secretary of education, the texas school board or someone at the state level? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CensoredScribe (talk • contribs)

There is only so much that can be taught over those years - and curriculums have to balance the most important messages that children need with the number of hours of tuition available. If you spend an hour teaching them (and two more hours testing them!) about Godwin, that's an hour less that you can spend teaching math or chemistry or physics. Knowing who said those things is not as important as understanding the consequences of what they said on the world. It's much more likely that you'd be able to get a general review of political systems onto the curriculum - which could indirectly include anarchism and so forth. The specifics of what relatively obscure thinkers had to say on these matters is probably best left to very specific courses at the college level. SteveBaker (talk) 13:27, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Is there any evidence that they are that influential. Our article on William Godwin doesn't even mention education. "Tax-supported schooling for girls began as early as 1767 in New England" (History of education in the United States) would seem to predate both. Rmhermen (talk) 16:36, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

School curricula in the US are set at the state and local level. One might as well ask what local town councils are doing about a Mars mission. μηδείς (talk) 19:22, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Indeed, I think it's fair to say that Condorcet had a much bigger impact on voting systems, via the Condorcet method and Condorcet's jury theorem. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:38, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I think I would start at the local school board and see what they say. States mandate certain parts of the curriculum, but they don't (usually) specify every single thing that is and is not taught. If you don't get any interest at the local level, you could step up through county and state boards of education. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:38, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Are 'the decades after leaving school' not for learning about such things? (And indeed the range of things to be found on WP's main pages.) Jackiespeel (talk) 21:37, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

• The state I grew up in required two years of American History to graduate, which amounted to The Seven Years War to Pearl Harbor. British/European history prior to 1776 is viewed as common history. World history in 8th grade consisted of the Fertile Crescent, Greece, Rome, and England through the Stuarts. European history from 1776 until 1914 is a nullity for most Americans, as it had little direct impact on us. We have heard of Victoria and Napoleon. Until reading this thread, I knew Godwin was some sort of British intellectual. I knew about de Condorcet because I took The Age of Revolution (through 1848) as my (single required) history elective for undergrad. Otherwise my knowledge of the era is from A. N. Wilson and watching costume dramas. μηδείς (talk) 00:22, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Two songs in one

How do you say when you play two songs in one like "Come Together/Lose Yourself", mixing parts of both songs to make one. I did one with The First Time by The Script and Still Haven't Found... by U2, but I don't know the English definition for that. Can anyone help me? Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 12:53, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Mashup? --some jerk on the Internet (talk) 13:57, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

let me read the article. I have one pict like the one with John lennon but it's Lennon and Bono :P Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 13:59, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that's it. I mean... like when I sing the first verse of the The Script's song and then I sing the chorus of the U2's song. As both have similar chords. My mix turned out to be very good. Do you understand now? Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 14:02, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Like the one they made in Glee with "It's My Life" by Bon Jovi and "Confessions Part II" by Usher. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 14:21, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Medley (music) -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 14:08, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 17:12, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Are you talking about singing them consecutively, as with a medley? Or singing them concurrently, as with Old Folks at Home and Dvorak's Humoresque #7? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:44, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I understand that the kids of today call it a "mash-up". --TammyMoet (talk) 07:56, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Yeah some jerk on the internet already said that. --Viennese Waltz 08:09, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

@Baseball Bugs: I mean this: Singing the first verse of the first song and then switch to the chorus of the 2nd and then again the first song and end with the 2nd. Like... She is.... (the rest of the line) While I'm drinking Jack all.... (the rest of the line)... And we don't know how... (the rest of the line until the end of the first verse)... that we're meeting for the first time... (and then the chorus of the 2nd song)... But I still Haven't found what I'm looking for... Get it now? Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 12:19, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

That definitely qualifies as a "medley". The term "pastiche" might work also, though I'm not altogether sure of that, not being an expert in this area. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:40, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I stick with medley. I think! A guy did one of those in one of the Voices UK episodes. With Come Together and Lose Yourself. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 18:04, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

If that question's done, does anyone know what the concurrent one is? If I take the melody line from a tune, replace it into a different tune and transpose them together, bar-for-bar, what did I do? Sometimes I get asked about my MIDI hobby, and I'd like to give a concise term for that part of it. Not mash-up. There must be a more traditional music (as opposed to recorded music) term, but Google fails me. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:27, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

I found xenochrony through the mash-up article (thanks), which is very close, but still more to do with the sounds than the notes behind them. Plunderphonics is also quite close. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:33, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

"wire-wire"

What do they mean by this phrase here?Curb Chain (talk) 12:53, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

It's an abbreviation that should be read as wire-to-wire. It is used to describe a runner who leads the race from beginning to end; see for example this story. (The term is also frequently used in horse racing.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:37, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

What is the etymology?Curb Chain (talk) 22:17, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

[1]. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:21, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

When to switch to spare camera?

You might remember that I have recently posted about being worried about breaking the shutter on my Olympus E-620 DSLR, which is already well past its promised shutter lifetime. I've become accustomed to Olympus E-series DSLRs, but they are no longer on the market, except for the E-5, which I could never afford. So I bought another E-620 as a spare camera well in advance. It seems to be in much better condition than my old one. When should I switch to actually using it? Or should I keep it in its box, high up on a shelf, until my old one finally breaks down? I only bought the camera, not any lenses, so switching between cameras isn't going to be a trivial operation, but easy nonetheless. JIP | Talk 14:57, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Could you get the shutter repaired if it breaks? I had my Ricoh KR5 (which I bought with my first pay packet in 1979) repaired a couple of years ago and it's as good as new. It's also not the oldest SLR I own by any means; Exakta Varex from the 1950s which I use regularly. Perhaps DSLRs are as robust as SLRs... --TrogWoolley (talk) 18:50, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Probably keep the old one going. However, I suggest you test the new one from time to time, and take it with you when you go on a long trip - one from which it would be inconvenient to return home just for the replacement camera. Astronaut (talk) 19:13, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

This seems like a good plan. I'm going to Mallorca for a week on a month from now, and I'm planning to take about one to two thousand pictures during the entire trip. Going back to Finland in the middle would be disastrous - it would cost me about 400 € and take one full day. So at least there I will take both cameras. But while I'm staying in Finland, I'm going to keep using my old camera, only taking the new one along if there's something important I really need to photograph. JIP | Talk 19:30, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Does editing wikipedia look good on a college application?

I'm assuming the addition to the article is still up at the time and the editor reveals their screen name so every edit can be looked at. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CensoredScribe (talk • contribs) 16:21, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I think it will be hard to find refs for this, but am happy to be shown wrong about that :). Anyway, it probably couldn't hurt your application, but I doubt it would do much good. Perhaps the way to get the most positive benefit would be to discuss it in the application essay (if there is one). Stuff about the importance of education, volunteering for the the greater good, how this helped you work in collaborative groups, learn research skills, how to evaluate WP:RS, etc. Actually, now that I've written that, it sounds pretty good: I wish all my students had prior experience editing/improving WP. Good luck! SemanticMantis (talk) 16:39, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

It depends what you are doing! If you are writing bad things on Wikipedia, then probably not. After I have become a member of the WMF Board, I intend at some point to seek political office, and hope that people will look kindly on my edits to the encyclopedia and contribution to its governance. If you are able to write coherent articles that are suitable for an encyclopedia then it could certainly imply you are capable of studying. However, many parts of Wikipedia may suit applications to a debating society instead. Horatio Snickers (talk) 19:14, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

And we should also use WP:INDENT correctly, so that we know who you're responding to. I am most certainly not applying to any colleges ;) SemanticMantis (talk) 19:33, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Would acquiring a Wikipedia:Barnstars be useful? Jackiespeel (talk) 21:43, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I doubt it. Interest in collecting barnstars (and edit boxes) is, broadly speaking, a good indicator of immaturity. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:05, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I believe that the two articles that I brought to WP:FA status helped me in my application to my most recent job. That indicates that a certain standard of writing skills has been reached. Just general editing doesn't really prove that any particular standard has been reached - and it would require your potential employer to spend a TON of time following your edit histories and so forth. I can't see that happening. But if there is a simple "I reached this testable level of achievement" - like an FA or two - then I think it's something I'd take into account on a resume. SteveBaker (talk) 22:35, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I agree that expecting people who look at college applications to spend time sifting through a Wikipedia contributions list is unwise. As Steve suggests, either a brief mention of which articles you got to FA (or even GA), together with a brief explanation of what FA is, or else, even if you didn't get something to FA, you could mention something like "including almost completely re-writing Wikipedia's article about the history of Sicily" or "about photosynthesis" or whatever. Even if they don't know much about Wikipedia, this gives them a chance to take a quick look at the sort of thing you were involved in, and also the chance to ask more about it if they should happen to interview you.

By contrast, statements like "I spend a lot of time vandal fighting on Wikipedia and have rollback privileges" is more likely to damage one's college application. -Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:30, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

And most important of all never show them which article you have edited more than any other. Mind you I was a little surprised at some of the other pages I had edited a lot. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 06:06, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

So the activity category of 'strategic activity across Wikipedia/the Wikiverse in general' emerges. Jackiespeel (talk) 09:20, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I would imagine that the age of the people reading the application are going to affect the understanding of what Wikipedia is. While there are plenty of older editors, User:JackofOz and myself for example, the younger editor is the norm. So I would suspect that the older reader of your application is going to have less understanding and less appreciation of what is done here. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 15:52, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Short answer: FUCK NO. Do you really think that college admission boards really care what you've done on Wikipedia? Just stick to the traditional stuff, like volunteer work, internships, sports achievements, high school extracurricular leadership positions, and family ties to the school in question. Herzlicheboy (talk) 17:39, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

It may well depend on whether you can show that you don't edit Wikipedia all the time. If you can show a balanced and mature pattern of behavior, in which constructive editing on subjects on which you are interested and/or knowledgeable plays some part - but doesn't dominate your life - it would probably be looked on favorably. If they thought you were going to spend all your time on here rather than studying properly, then no. As others have said, they are unlikely to know what a GA or FA is, or the level of commitment or knowledge it entails, without a brief explanation. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:03, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, what the above dude said sounds good . . . IF you can convince the board that you don't edit Wikipedia all the time. However, if I were you I'd be worried that even mentioning Wikipedia on an application or essay might make the board think that you have an unhealthy emphasis on wikipedia in your life, which is not a good thing. Herzlicheboy (talk) 18:57, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

(reset) I think 'Wikipedia editing' (and to a lesser extent 'editing in the wider Wikiverse') is so ubiquitous that it is not worth commenting on - unless one can present it as part of a wider project. Jackiespeel (talk) 21:38, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Old baby powder brand

I recall my mother telling me that I was named Samantha after the character from bewitched and a brand of (I think she said) baby powder. I haven't been able to find anything out about this brand and was wondering if anyone has heard of it before. If it helps, we are originally from England but I was born in Germany in 1987. 63.95.64.254 (talk) 22:10, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I grew up in England in the 1960s and remember Bewitched being very popular on the TV. I recall that the American names sounded very outlandish - Samantha and Darren were otherwise unknown here as far as I know. I don't recall a baby powder called "Samantha" and a Google search has failed to find anything. However, it was a "trendy" name for a while and it wouldn't surprise me if it was a short-lived product name. Alansplodge (talk) 12:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

How about powder named after their daughter, Tabitha? μηδείς (talk) 16:33, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Could be, she did say that if I wasn't Samantha I would be a Tabitha. 63.95.64.254 (talk) 19:34, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

True story: I knew a woman who named her kids Samantha and Tabitha, and wondered if she had boys if she would name them Darren 1 and Darren 2. :-) StuRat (talk) 20:32, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Parents are frequently very bad at naming their kids. I knew a guy named Brien O'Brien. Everyone called him "Bob". SteveBaker (talk) 20:45, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Could the baby powder have been under a German (or other language) variant of Samantha? CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 21:13, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I doubt it as we were only in Germany because my Dad was in the army and what little Germany they knew was for his job.63.95.64.254 (talk) 14:51, 26 August 2013 (UTC)