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Template:Apple

– This request has been open for some time and must be reviewed.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

Users involved

Dispute overview

One editor is willing to add a group of links (related to software and hardware products that Apple Inc. has produced in the past).

Another disagrees on the grounds that other templates ({{Apple Inc. hardware}}, {{AppleIntel}}, {{Apple hardware before 1998}}, {{Apple hardware since 1998}}, {{Apple Inc. operating systems}}, {{Apple printers}}, {{Apple software}}, {{Apple software on Windows}} et al.) already do so and are already transcluded. Adding said links would only bring about link bombardment.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Issue is discussed in:

How do you think we can help?

I thought perhaps a moderated discussion can help keep the issue in check.

Summary of dispute by User:Jimthing

Codename Lisa has failed repeatedly to answer several problems put to them directly on the template talk page: why? Raising a dispute here when you have failed to engage in answering with proper explanatory answers and not ones that ignore the reasonable questions asked by other editors on there, is somewhat unreasonable to most longterm editors on WP, don't you think? Especially when you're last edit (HERE) even bothered to screw-up what I had carefully done, by added links to a random handful of individual hardware/software items (i.e. even managing to miss-out most of the current items, for inexplicable reasons) — the very items for which earlier in the discussions you YOURSELF admitted to me should NOT even be on it...strange behaviour for one filing a dispute here?? Jimthing (talk) 16:15, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by User:FleetCommand

I don't like being drowned in links either. So, it is said that CL and I have a consensus, although the actual wording was "being in cahoots". (No comments there.)

About steps taken to resolve: "One editor" tried a compromise by replacing the redundant links with other redundant links to templates (see above) that contain the redundant links. "Another editor" didn't agree, because in practice, those templates were transcluded right below {{Apple}} in articles. So, "another editor" proposed another compromise: Some links can stay. Well, "one editor" has explicitly expressed her feelings about it above. Look, I am not exactly famous for my negotiation expertise but I am willing to work, now that I am here. Fleet Command (talk) 21:55, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Template:Apple discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

Hi there; I am Mdann52, and shall be the volunteer handling this dispute. My initial reaction here would be to suggest that the info boxes are either split, especially as we have Template:Apple software, and the template documentation already states "This is not meant to be an exhaustive guide to Apple content on Wikipedia. However, it can be added to any Apple-related article." [sic]. Anyone have any issues with the concept in general. After we have resolved what will happen, we can then agree on the exact wording of the split. --Mdann52talk to me! 08:35, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Mdann52. This sounds exactly like what the dispute is about and my initial drive to remove links to software and hardware. Do you have something particular in mind? Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 03:32, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Mdann52, I think reverting to revision #599108935 and checking the articles that transclude {{Apple}} accomplishes exactly what you ask; but I fear that is taken as a non-cooperative comment on my part. Do you have anything specific in mind? Fleet Command (talk) 18:43, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
If everyone is happy, I can run AWB later and put the Apple Software template on all articles with {{apple}} later on if everyone is happy with it? Alternatively, we could try and merge the two templates together, or just reword the template, and add new links/rows as appropriate. --Mdann52talk to me! 08:21, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
Merging two huge templates is not wise but yes, the first suggestion works for me. How about you guys? FleetCommand? Jimthing?
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 19:01, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
If you go the template route, you'd be talking about both the Apple Software template AND the Apple Hardware one, BTW. However, if we went the merge route it'd make life easier for other editors in future as they wouldn't have to muck around dealing with more than one template – but what would get included under hardware and software on {{apple}}, and what left out, as they have current and past software/hardware to think about. Jimthing (talk) 17:27, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi. Merge route requires a WP:TFD. But since you pointed out that both routes are awkward, I propose a third: Why not include major hardware and software products or products family names in {{Apple}} and be done with it? That way, the user can get to his intended topic by going to the family article, without filling the articles with links. Anyway, which one do you choose? Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 18:48, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
I prefer third suggestion but first is good enough too. But Jimthing seems unwilling to continue. Should we count her as bailed out per WP:SILENCE? Fleet Command (talk) 02:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
A few days silence (unless I'm missing something) seems a bit odd, but looking over this I think the third suggestion might be the ideal one here in terms of implementing. Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 11:41, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Fine then, for the sake of (non-)argument, go with the third option: "include major hardware and software products or products family names". As proposer, perhaps Codename Lisa can add their edit of the template on here first, then we can discuss and agree (hopefully briefly!) which pages are right to use, before it gets finally implemented as the finished template. (BTW, some of the things I added in later edits should still remain, eg's. iBookstore under Stores, and the "Subsidiaries" subgroup title under "Companies", Intel transition add under History group instead, et al). Jimthing (talk) 15:41, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I certainly don't have to bother other additions. Only a snippet is our subject.

How about this:

I am sure I've missed some entries. Please feel free to mention them.

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 01:34, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Sending ping notification: @Jimthing: Could you please watch this page? Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 02:34, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Sorry other commitments, be back 24h to comment. Jimthing (talk) 13:07, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
(Delayed commenting today, due to WP "site busy" 404's all afternoon!). Anyway, made some minor changes to make look neater, but mainly as some current items –which seem like the ones we should aim to appear on this template to stop overloading– were missing, removing the couple of discontinued products that were on there. Also added a hidden comment (<!-- DO NOT ADD DISCONTINUED PRODUCTS TO THIS TEMPLATE: discussions decided they're covered under "Discontinued software/hardware" links. -->) to discourage future abuses:
Thanks. Jimthing (talk) 20:50, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Super nice. Agreed totally and completely. Permission to call the shot?
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 05:22, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

24 hr closing notice: Unless there is anything further, I'm going to close this case as resolved.--KeithbobTalk 19:45, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

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