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New Challenge for Oceania and Australia

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South Australian places

I remember we talked about this a while back, but god, South Australia's vague place names are infuriating. I'm going through one of the history books I grabbed some stuff from when I was in Adelaide, and I've come across a school that is variously referred to as Apoinga and Brady Creek, in a church formerly called Koonoona, and near the post office in Emu Downs, despite the fact these days they're four separate places. *bangs head* The Drover's Wife (talk) 15:27, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

@The Drover's Wife: Yes, it makes life "interesting" for family history research too. A place might have been on a pastoral lease (and their boundaries change over time), then taken up for closer settlement, and initially named for the Hundred. A railway station might have been named for a nearby town/village, the hundred it was in, or nothing in particular. Towns then sprang up and got named for the hundred, railway station, local backsmith/pub, land developer's best mate or nothing much either. The much later partitioning into formal LOCBs across the entire state has picked up many of these older names, but also dropped a few and left them as LOCU with coordinates that are far more precise than is appropriate for a handwave in the direction of the map. Churches popped up wherever the congregants wanted them, and locality boundaries have moved over time or been obliterated by later settlements or other developments. Areas that never really had a name have either been subsumed into a nearby LOCB (moving its centre away from the historic centre), or created new place names with no real history (which moves old names' centres the other way). My family history has found one person died at "Apoinga", but I haven't tracked a 3rd-great aunt any further yet, so don't know if it refers to the Hundred, or something smaller. I also have lots of family events that occurred at "Hundred of English", which isn't very precise these days, either. --Scott Davis Talk 11:33, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
...to continue the Apoinga confusions, I just noticed I have historic relatives who were married at "Zion Chapel (Emu Downs), Robertstown" in 1875 and 1881. --Scott Davis Talk 13:49, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
Even more so, isn't that the Zion church that was at Upper Bright? :P The Drover's Wife (talk) 17:17, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
I don't know. Robertstown had a Zion Lutheran on the edge of the town on Church Street/Black Springs Road, and our article says Robertstown was also known as Emu Flats (without dates). More work required :-/ --Scott Davis Talk 22:08, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
The "Emmaus to Worlds End" book suggests that the district was known as Emu Flats at the time of the town's settlement, and says "when Mr Roberts opened a Post Office in his store the town obtained its name - first Roberts Town then Robertstown" but doesn't give a specific date because it wasn't a gazetted town. The post office would make it 1874 though, which a Trove search supports, and the Zion Lutheran you're talking about opened in 1871, so it seems likely. The Drover's Wife (talk) 03:07, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Great idea for an article, though could use getting fleshed out a bit with the context so it isn't just a rehashing of that day's news - a bit more about the before and the after etc. The Drover's Wife (talk) 16:34, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, I didn't consider it to be a complete article yet, but started writing to see if it could look like it had potential. The topic is a bit more vague that politicians, places, and events that I normally write about. I have added a bit of early history and moved it to Draft:German schools in South Australia. I don't have time to fill in the gap this morning. --Scott Davis Talk 21:58, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

They're all at "state by-election" around the country after a discussion years ago. Didn't agree with it then, but can't be bothered changing umpteen hundred links so I try to standardise them. It was a ferociously controversial by-election though so shouldn't be hard to find sources on if someone has the election results - maybe someone like Kirsdarke01 could help? The Drover's Wife (talk) 13:45, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Dukes Highway

Hi. I've added a comment on a recent edit of yours at Talk:Dukes Highway. Adpete (talk) 23:58, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Surat roads

Hi Scott, I have left a message for you on my talk page. Regards Summerdrought (talk) 22:06, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Great Central Road

Hi Scott, I noticed in your Junctions edit for the Great Central Road there is a note that says "Great Central Road is now considered concurrent with Gunbarrel Highway". I am wondering if you have a particular reference that can be quoted for that note, as I have done a lot of travel and study of the works of Len Beadell and there is only a short section of the GCR of about 45km which is actually concurrent. I am aware that some people may confuse the two roads, but as Wikipedia should quote references, then I think one may be required here. Regards, Graham. Summerdrought (talk) 22:07, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

@Summerdrought: the main source I used for that claim (which should have been explicit as "between Warburton and Warakurna" rather than just using the colour) was the map on Gunbarrel Highway and the (uncited) text in the "Conditions" section of that article. You are right, we need more references, which I didn't have to hand for my purpose. It is possible that tourist information sources will conflict with local and official knowledge and historical usage, too.
I have been doing a few of these junction lists, not just for outback tracks, and find that the effort often takes longer than expected because articles have developed independently and don't always agree. Thanks for noticing this one and for any help on working out which version is "true". I suspect that by the time I ever get there, the Outback Highway will have developed enough to remove some of the "adventure" in the past and present. --Scott Davis Talk 23:22, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
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13:37, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Status of towns and townships in South Australia

Hi ScottDavis

In the recent past, I remember reading a comment by you either on your talk page or on someone else’s page that you were looking at relevant state legislation concerning the existence of towns et al. The following summarises what I have found in the recent past.

Firstly, in 2016, I edited a number of articles about towns/localities/suburbs to include former names that were officially discontinued in 1940 (please refer NEW TOWN NAMES APPROVED). In a couple of cases, I started new articles including Walloway where I discovered that the town had been ‘ceased’ in 1988 by a proclamation made under the Crown Lands Act 1929. When one looks at a source such as Property Location Browser where the layer for ‘Government Towns’ has been selected, no boundary is shown for the former Town of Walloway which suggests that those towns whose boundaries are visible still exist. Presumably, these towns exist until proclaimed otherwise. Previously, I was of the view that towns ceased to exist after the proclamation of suburbs and localities in the late 1990s and the early 2000s.

Secondly, I noticed that section 4 of the Local Government Act 1999 includes the following definition of a ‘township’:

"township" means—

(a) any government township and any land laid out as a township where plans of the township have been deposited in the Lands Titles Registration Office, the General Registry Office or the Surveyor-General's Office; or

(b) any part of the area of a council that contains at least 20 residences and that is defined as a township by the council by notice in the Gazette;

It would be possible to locate townships of the class listed in (a) above via Property Location Browser reports while the class of townships listed in (b) above could be found by a search of the SA Government Gazette from the date of proclamation of the Act on 26 August 1999. In summary, I think it would be possible to identify what towns and townships do exist with the result that various lists could be upgraded and categories associated with placenames in South Australia could be revised.

Please reply on this page.

Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 23:59, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi @Cowdy001: I don't remember exactly the conversation you mention, in particular I don't recall saying I would look at the legislation about towns. I do recall a few conversations around that kind of stuff, so maybe I said something a bit like that in passing. Others who are interested in this stuff include @The Drover's Wife and Donama:, maybe it was one of them? I suspect that class (a) is what we read as "originated as a private subdivision of..." and (b) is what were created as "government towns".
I hope we have recorded the "former names" in that news article in the articles about the current town/localities.
I suspect that the need to define "township" in the Local Government Act is because councils apply different rates to township and rural land.
I think that tagging places like Walloway as |type=suburb in the infobox is absurd by any meaningful interpretation of the word "suburb". Since the infobox doesn't do anything special for "locality", I figure there is no point trying to decide whether any article about a rural place is about the LOCB or the Township (current or former), and the state is neatly partitioned into LOCBs (and SUBs in urban areas), so they are an ideal way of naming articles about places in SA at the lowest level. It makes life a little difficult at times for deciding what to do about places that are on current LOCB boundaries but have historically been separate places. Examples I think of quickly include Oxford Landing, Craneford, Neukirch that have been redirected and described in one of the relevant LOCB articles. I think we do have one or two "town" articles that do not have a current LOCB by that name, but I can't think of them at the moment. Historic placenames that show up in family history research can be difficult, as they either don't exist now, or have well-defined boundaries now that may be different (and often smaller) than the historic area that had that name. Examples I've seen for that include Apoinga and Moorook that possibly once meant anywhere in the cadastral hundred of that name (along with Hundred of English, which at least seems to be explicit that it means the Hundred in records I have seen).
Collating data to make complete lists sounds like a lot of effort that would be borderline WP:OR and a maintenance challenge. Finding lists that someone is paid to maintain and a few lines of sed/awk/python to import them would likely be valuable though. --Scott Davis Talk 10:06, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
I more or less agree with Scott, I think. My reading was that the government towns had ceased to be of relevance once uniform localities were rolled out and that the "incorporated the Government Town of Blah" or "incorporated the ceased Government Town of Blah" wording for the LOCB entries functionally meant the same, just with the "ceased" ones having been eliminated earlier. As with Scott, I'm not seeing a great deal of benefit in trying to gather that sort of data: the localities, now uniform, make for sensible bottom-level articles in most cases. I feel like most of the historically-different-but-now-merged towns can be covered in the one article for modern localities (because usually neither are that big), though can always be spun out in the unlikely event they get enough content, and the Apoinga/Moorook examples best served by developing standalone articles on those hundreds as distinct from the localities. The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:43, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Port Germein

Hi Scott,

I have been working on the history of Port Germein for about 10 years and never in that time have I seen it referred to as Hummock Harbour. I am currently collating every news story from 1881 onwards and have written a small book about the time when I lived there together with information about sailing vessels that visited during the grain races. Several news articles refer to ships calling at Hummock Harbour on the trip to or from Port Lincoln, but certainly did not give the impression that it was Port Germein. There is a Hummock Hill in Whyalla. I have been in frequent contact with HATS in Port Germein and have given them quite a lot of information. They would not be in a position to confirm that the place was ever Hummock Harbour, I would think. Louisenord (talk) 14:39, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

I have continued the conversation at Talk:Port Germein, South Australia#Rollbacks - Hummock Harbour and Melrose District Council rather than splitting it further here. Please join there. --Scott Davis Talk 13:28, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Fair Use in Australia discussion

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Peter Georgiou

I've moved your draft of the above article into mainspace with some minimal changes after today's confirmation of Georgiou's election. Obviously the article could use some expansion at some stage, but I figured best to get it in place given likely attention on the subject today. Alaric004 (talk) 00:51, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

@Alaric004: Thank you. I have had a busy week away from home and had not heard the news yet. --Scott Davis Talk 06:58, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

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A favor

Hello ScottDavis, I'm asking you for a favor to leave your opinion here Talk:Visa requirements for Georgian citizens#RfC for map usage. You are an admin and your view will have more significance regarding the issue since you better know wiki rules and guides.--g. balaxaZe★ 17:43, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

MLCs

Thanks for starting that infobox discussion! The template does remove the "incumbent" thing if you have the "succeeding = " parameter filled in, but that obviously doesn't work for multi-member seats and I couldn't find any other way to get rid of it other than commenting out the entire thing. Hope someone can come up with something! Frickeg (talk) 10:54, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

@Frickeg: No worries. Choosing a predecessor might make sense if the party has the same number of members before and after, and only one changed, or only one seat changed party (I haven't checked if any of these make sense). I hoped that just setting a future start date would drop the word "incumbent" (it didn't as you know), or that readers would work it out fromthe future start date, but that is definitely suboptimal since "incumbent" stands out more than the date. I guess we could contrive something like |office=MLC-elect |term-start=11 March 2017 |term-end=22 May 2017 but that looks pretty lame overall. Last year it did not apply for the senate, but it is an issue for "normal" senate elections. --Scott Davis Talk 11:01, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
It would definitely be a good thing to get sorted out. I had a look at the history of Jacqui Lambie to see what we did for senators-elect, and it looks like we just had "office=Senator-elect for Tasmania" and then left out the dates altogether, which I guess is another possible compromise. But a better solution would be for the template itself to be fixed. Frickeg (talk) 11:06, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Lol

They ARE middle upper class suburbs But I see you're from the north so understand the hate. You ask for proof, well you give me proof they aren't! For example, Davran Park IS a crap hole! We just know that! No proof required! Wikipedia is about everything including Real Estate! Do a google search on the suburbs you removed that from and you May learn something — Preceding unsigned comment added by Target101 (talk • contribs) 06:27, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

You see where I live now, I grew up south of the city in the hills, but my address and background don't influence Wikipedia style anyway. Even the Domain reference doesn't say that, and it's in their interests to talk up every suburb as much as they can. Have a look at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch for example, and other pages linked from their sidebars. --Scott Davis Talk 08:15, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Time in Australia

I admit I do not have a reference but its a fact that the vast percentage of computers and security systems are not adjusted to Daylight saving times.

Hi ‪BernardZ‬. The vast majority of computers (including mobile "smart" phones and car navigation systems) don't need to be manually adjusted. I do know people who don't adjust the clock in their oven or car, but I don't have any evidence to suggest that is any more or less prevalent in Australia than anywhere else. --Scott Davis Talk 13:41, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
I was referring to the computer used in security systems. Few companies will pay a security company to come twice a year to change the time so they set them to the appropriate time zone

BernardZ (talk)

Gichuhi

Ok re Gichuhi. I didn't see the tweet. That is enough! I don't have time to fix just now. It needs to be updated in the Senators template, AUstralian senators article, Gichuhi own article and the FAmily First article all in one go for consistency is all. Donama (talk) 03:22, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Pacific Highway

I think we are both in agreement that the Pacific Highway articles need work, but as no one else really seems interested in stepping up to the debate, seems a bit of a lost cause given the totalitarian way AussieLegend uses to defend the status quo. But thanks for your attempts to address, may have to put it on the backburner until our esteemed colleague moves on. Silverserv (talk) 08:23, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi Silverserv. Yes, I think the job would be much easier if the NSW government gave the old road between Sydney and Newcastle a new name (like the Gold Coast Highway in Queensland). Then we would not have as much confusion about what is the Pacific Mumbleway vs its former routes. There doesn't seem as much dispute over bypasses of towns north of Newcastle. Perhaps incremental steps will get us to a better place eventually. --Scott Davis Talk 10:54, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
I'm having another go, but I'm facing the same resistance. Still it looks like there's a mood for change from everyone else involved in the conversation. Ausmeerkat (talk) 04:22, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Crown Lands alienation

page at http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/num_act/claao1861n26270/ which can be linked directly at http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/num_act/claao1861n26270.pdf can be noted at {{Cite Legislation AU|NSW|num_act|claao1861n26270|free form text for description}} - numbered act - working on how to get that into the docs Dave Rave (talk) 00:02, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

@Dave Rave: I'm not sure I understand the question. It looks like the support for num_act was introduced to the template in June 2013. Your example works for me as free form text for description (NSW). Is the issue that you hadn't found the link to edit Template:Cite Legislation AU/doc to update the documentation? --Scott Davis Talk 06:46, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
I don't like t be messing with templates and official stuff. And I get bogged doing the wordage. Plus the doc page isn't bleeding obvious like on some others Dave Rave (talk) 09:29, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
@Dave Rave: How does this look? --Scott Davis Talk 11:05, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
that looks fine, I didn't have the by number in my head as wordage. Dave Rave (talk) 19
11, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

hi ScottDavis, i have just removed the stub tag from Dorset Vale, South Australia and reassessed it to a 'start' as i reckon its a concise infomative article.

Coolabahapple (talk) 04:36, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Coolabahapple. It's quite a while since I got a present on my talk page. I appreciate it. --Scott Davis Talk 05:53, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Fair Use in Australia campaign update

I'm writing you this followup message, as you took the time to vote in support of a Wikipedia banner campaign for the introduction of Fair Use in Australia.

After much planning and coordination with the WMF, Australian Digital Alliance, and Electronic Frontiers Australia, as of Monday the banner-campaign is active on English Wikipedia to a portion of logged-out readers in Australia (technical details). The banners direct people to this page on Meta: FairCopyrightOz. That page, alongside lots of information, further directs people towards the campaign website faircopyright.org.au where Australians are invited to write to their local MP to express support of Fair Use. If you are interested in supporting this campaign, please, send a letter yourself using the template letter provided at that link.

Furthermore, and with the support of the ADA & EFA, we have received fantastic media coverage - with article "Fair Use: Wikipedia targets Australians in bid to change the law" appearing on page 2 of the Sydney Morning Herald and page 10 of the Melbourne Age on Monday's edition. It was for a time the 3rd most read article the Fairfax website, and Fair Use was "trending" on Twitter in Australia. We are running the account @FairCopyrightOz on twitter, and we are tracking other press-mentions on the talkpage on Meta.

Today, day 2, we published a detailed post about the campaign on the Wikimedia Blog, ran an "Ask Me Anything" Q&A session on the Australia page in Reddit, and [by happy coincidence of timing] the article History of fair use proposals in Australia appeared on the en.wp mainpage as a Did You Know. [The creation of that "history of..." article was a specific request arising from in the community consultation in which you voted].

And, most importantly, in a little more than a day nearly 800 letters to MPs have been sent encouraging them to support the Productivity Commission's recommendation to adopt Fair Use in Australia. I urge you - please add your own message.

Sincerely, Wittylama 16:23, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Mail

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JarrahTree 14:00, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Coordinates

I don't think we should get ahead of ourselves with updating infobox instructions ahead of changes to the actual infobox.[1] While it's inevitable, the changes to some of the infoboxes, including {{Infobox Australian place}} have not yet proceeded and the "old" parameters still work fine. We should be using the current method until the infobox is changed, so as to ensure the correct coordinate strings are generated when the articles are changed by a bot. When I automated Infobox Australian place in 2012 there were thousands of articles with incorrect/incomplete strings that needed fixing because editors had made errors when formatting {{coord}} and I can see this happening again. In fact, I think it already has. I picked up this change today. {{Infobox Australian Electorate}} automatically generates {{coord|32|24|25|S|151|55|5|E|type:adm1st_region:AU-NSW|display=inline, title}} but this was manually changed to just {{coord|32|24|25|S|151|55|5|E|display=inline, title}}. The string generation by Infobox Australian place is considerably more complex due to it serving multiple types of places. Personally, I see the same mess that I fixed in 2012 reappearing. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:23, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks AussieLegend. As far as I could tell, {{Infobox Australian place}} was actually updated a couple of months ago by Frietjes. I admit I did not do a thorough set of tests, but the one or two I tried (without saving) generated identical output as near as I could tell (I clicked through the coordinates to look at the region parameters displayed on the Geohack page). In particular, the region was set to include the state. I did not have time to test whether the hemisphere parameters are needed, so left them in the blank template examples. The last three versions of Division of Paterson all generate exactly the same geohack link, including the region. I edited Template:Infobox Australian place/Blank after reading Wikipedia talk:Coordinates in infoboxes#Getting close to being done, thinking that it needs to be corrected before the old parameters are removed, and not sure how many people are both aware of the coordinate parameter change and aware of the /Blank page. When the bot gets to this infobox, I may well get several thousand alerts in my watchlist :-/ --Scott Davis Talk 09:43, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
IAP has still not been converted. It's on the "ToDo" list, I assume because of the complexity. Some changes have been made in preparation, but that's all. You're right about Division of Paterson though, I just looked at the code. I'm not sure how it generates the "missing" part of the string but that in itself is a concern. You can override the generated string just by adding the wrong thing to the coord string, like adding type:electorate_region:Brisbane to a NSW electorate. That wasn't possible in the pre-conversion version without raising red flags. --AussieLegend (✉) 10:18, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
AussieLegend, repeating my response here, if you omit the 'type' and 'region' information in {{Infobox Australian Electorate}} it will automatically add this information for you. and, you are correct that if you manually specify this information the 'coordinsert' function in Module:coordinates will not override it. however, we could definitely add optional flags to the 'coordinsert' function to toggle (a) add tracking categories when the manually specified region/type does not agree with the values being automatically inserted, or (b) to overwrite any manually specified region/type information. I would think that (a) is probably the better option since it's plausible that it's a useful way to override the defaults in exceptional cases. by the way, if you search the code for Template:Infobox Australian place for 'coordinsert' you will find where the 'type' and 'region' strings are being inserted. Frietjes (talk) 13:02, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

strategy

Was good to meetup in Adelaide !

At this stage I am in process of writing a report about discussions in Australia about https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017 the cycle 2 of the broader wikimedia strategy -

You may well have responded elsewhere - but if you at all interested - not the slightest bother if you are not - please feel free to contact on or off wiki - thanks - JarrahTree 05:07, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Reverts

Hi I noticed you are a member of the WikiProject Australia and a long term editor and administrator. I am having trouble; I imagine this is a reasonably common problem. I have made some edits to an article and unregistered user(s) are reverting the edits over and over again. Is there anything that can be done about this? It is a bit disheartening to put a lot of time into work that simply gets deleted and as the other editor is anonymous it is impossible to have a conversation with them. Regards --PinkAechFas (talk) 10:46, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

The 3 revert rule applies to everyone. Whoever is reverting instead of talking can be blocked by any administrator. You did not mention the page(s). --Scott Davis Talk 11:07, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

An example page is LJ Hooker. The problem is that the edits are being made by people with IP addresses and not names. The LJ Hooker page needs a comprehensive review but this is difficult when any edit to it is anonymously reverted. --PinkAechFas (talk) 05:50, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

@PinkAechFas: It looks like one of the anonymous users may be using the same IP number on consecutive days, so it is possible they will see a message you post to their (IP) user talk page. You could also try to engage them on the article talk page. Edit comment of "update" while removing a large chunk of text does not make it obvious what your intent is. We cannot tell if the human behind the IP is a new user, or an experienced wikipedian who happened to have not logged in on that occasion, so really, just treat them with the same respect as anyone else, and invite them to create an account and log in. The other recent IP editor to that page seems to have restored your edits, demonstrating that they aren't all bad. --Scott Davis Talk 07:10, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Re: small places

Thank you, Scott. The places are small or non-existent today but to me they are important. Plenty of our SA ancestors were born/married/buried in just such small places and the event was duly registered as having happened thus! Donama (talk) 03:02, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

@Donama: Indeed. My wife and I have spent many Sunday afternoons visiting the graves and towns of our ancestors and their relatives in SA. Perhaps when we finally attend the same meetup, we can discover if any of yours knew any of mine or hers, since there seems to be some geographic overlap. --Scott Davis Talk 05:10, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Use of File:Adelaide Metro logo.svg on O-Bahn Busway

Hi. I removed File:Adelaide Metro logo.svg from O-Bahn Busway in the understanding that it was in violation of WP:NFC#UUI §17. As the O-Bahn does not have a logo of its own, the Adelaide Metro logo should not be used in its place. A similar discussion occurred over the usage of TV network logos of Seven, Nine and Ten in articles for each individual station, that too failed WP:NFC#UUI §17 irrespective of the fact that they had fair use notices. – Nick Mitchell 98 talk 02:17, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

@Nick Mitchell 98: Thank you for the explanation. I see it was me who put the fair use notice on the image, and I created the first infobox too, so I am not a suitable adjudicator. If you remove it again with that explanation ("WP:NFC#UUI §17" in the edit summary), I won't revert. As I said, the logo was there when the article passed FA review, so I'm not the only person who missed it, but I accept your interpretation. Cheers. --Scott Davis Talk 12:04, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
No problem, just wanted to explain myself before making any further changes in case there was something you saw that I might have missed. No matter. – Nick Mitchell 98 talk 12:09, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

This is to inform you that an attempt is being made to overturn an RfC that you commented on

This is to inform you that an attempt is being made to overturn an RfC that you commented on (2 RfCs, actually, one less than six months ago and another a year ago). The new RfC is at:

Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#RfC: Allow private schools to be characterized as non-affiliated as well as religious, in infobox?

Specifically, it asks that "religion = none" be allowed in the infobox.

The first RfC that this new RfC is trying to overturn is:

The result of that RfC was "unambiguously in favour of omitting the parameter altogether for 'none' " and despite the RfC title, additionally found that "There's no obvious reason why this would not apply to historical or fictional characters, institutions etc.", and that nonreligions listed in the religion entry should be removed when found "in any article".

The second RfC that this new RfC is trying to overturn is:

The result of that RfC was that the "in all Wikipedia articles, without exception, nonreligions should not be listed in the Religion= parameter of the infobox.".

Note: I am informing everyone who commented on the above RfCs, whether they supported or opposed the final consensus. --Guy Macon (talk) 04:22, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Whitwarta

Following from our long-ago conversation about Whitwarta in 1914, see Hundred of Stow. You're right. The hundred was annexed to the DC of Balaklava in 1878. Likely as anything that became its own ward "Stow". Then the DC of Hall (which was proclaimed on the same day Hd of Stow was annexed) was annexed by Balaklava in 1935 and ultimately the Stow ward became part of "Stow-Hall" ward in the DC of Wakefield Plains. To be duly detailed in the article space another day :) Donama (talk) 06:27, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Donama Thank you. I think Wikipedia now has articles for all of the places that my and my wife's Australian ancestors were born. I think there might still be a few places they lived that are missing, and certainly not all of the places have much detail yet. Thanks for your help with several of them. --Scott Davis Talk 11:56, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
Are there articles for the county/district of registration for all their deaths, marriages and births though... :) Donama (talk) 23:24, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
:-P I wouldn't be surprised to find that some of them have an article for "place, South Australia" where the actual point of the birth/farm was in the "Hundred of place" and not especially near the (possibly later) township/locality of the name. Certainly, Hundred of English covers a number of small settlements scattered through marginal farmland, but at least there is no town of English, South Australia and it is always reported with the word Hundred. Hundred of Apoinga isn't much better, so I don't know where "Apoinga" referred to at the time, but maybe not specifically Apoinga, South Australia. I added South Hummocks, South Australia to my to-do list, as I don't know where someone would have lived for birth records at "The Hummocks". --Scott Davis Talk 04:49, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Template:Public transport in Adelaide

Hi. I just wanted to let you know that the functions of the new template Template:Public transport in Adelaide are already filled by Template:Adelaide public transport and Template:Adelaide Metro railway stations (also by Template:TramsAustralia and Template:Closed Railway lines of Adelaide) which are based on universal designs currently in use for transport in Sydney and Melbourne. I would recommend making further additions to these existing templates. – Nick Mitchell 98 talk 08:20, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Update: Template:Public transport in Adelaide has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Nick Mitchell 98 talk 10:47, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi @Nick Mitchell 98: I see "your" navbox is a week older than "mine", so I should have used yours for the discussion at wikipedia:WikiProject Adelaide#Trams, and would have if I had found it. I've proposed a merge of the two boxes, as we seem to have found overlapping sets of articles that should be included, and invite you to join the conversation about the tram articles too. --Scott Davis Talk 14:03, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

whichwayaorta

no whit here - what might be the best way - I am finding WP Trains with portal for trams - WP Trams that squashes into WP Streetcars -

was thinking of changing all oz tram items into streetcar (via typing in wp trams just to be crazy) - not sure what the trains/tram and trains/streetcar relationship is these days - there is always the possibility I have missed something. cheers JarrahTree 13:47, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

I have no idea. I wasn't trying to get into trains and trams, only into Adelaide culture and Infrastructure.... and what about trolleybuses? ;-) I suspect I have bitten off plenty with Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Adelaide#Trams - which with hindsight should have been on talk:Trams in Adelaide anyway. --Scott Davis Talk 13:57, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
arrgggh (all in vain) - I had forgotten the trolleybuses (I met some real live ones in valparaiso nine years ago) - indeed I give up!! JarrahTree 14:05, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
Question on a related subject - you appear to have requested speedy deletion on procedural grounds of Bus Preservation Society of Western Australia in December 2015. The article itself looks like a reasonable start to me, but I have no idea if the content is real or "fake news", nor what the actual background to the deletion was. Is there a comparable article that should be linked from List of museums in Western Australia and other appropriate places instead? Is it the same place as the Perth Electric Tramway Museum (redlinked from Trams in Ballarat)? --Scott Davis Talk 11:26, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

It was a very tricky environment where blocked serial pest was creating articles - and the possible discouragement was to delete creations to deter... also see email JarrahTree 04:23, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Anonymous IP Editors

Hi Scott, I left a message on your user page back in mid-June 2017 about some reverts being made to an article in need of a comprehensive review which I was trying to do. I thought I would let you know that the article, LJ Hooker, has once again been edited by an unregistered, anonymous user, using an IP address and this one is possibly a once only editor. I think the anonymous IP editing is a bit out of hand and I am wondering if it is possible to restrict the editing of articles to those who register.--PinkAechFas (talk) 07:48, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

@PinkAechFas: I have done a bit of a cleanup and added LJ Hooker to my watchlist for a while. I encourage you to improve it further, with a wider range of references, and see how you go. If other editors object to your edits, take it to the article's talk page, and engage with the editor (you can alert them on their user talk page too, IP talk pages work just like logged in user ones). The editing is not disruptive enough to warrant restricting editing on the article at this stage. Some of the IP editors on the page appear to have been providing constructive improvements too. --Scott Davis Talk 09:30, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi Scott, Thanks for the messages. I'll follow your advice. PinkAechFas (talk) 05:09, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Cross Road, Adelaide#History ?

Hi Scott. Regarding your 10 July 2016 edit, you wrote:

  • High Terrace (between Fullarton and Unley Roads)
  • Napier Terrace (Between Unley and Goodwood Roads)
  • South Terrace (between Goodwood and South Roads)
  • Glen Osmond Road (between Goodwood and Marion Road)
  • Plympton Terrace (between Marion Road and Anzac Highway)

When I look at http://www.osmaustralia.org/gregorysmaps.php, I can't get a good enough resolution to clearly read the map, and the download links no longer seem to work (Maybe it's my browser? I'm using Firefox).

Anyway, I'm wondering about "Glen Osmond Road (between Goodwood and Marion Road)". First, do you mean "between South and Marion Road"? Second, "Glen Osmond Road" seems a strange name for that part of suburbia, and it also seems a strange name given that there's a Glen Osmond Road at the other end of Cross Road. Just wondering. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 14:40, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

The maps still download for me using Firefox/Windows. I have corrected the text to say "South Road" in response to the first question. Map 19 shows "CROSS (Glen Osmond Rd) ROADS" west of Emerson Crossing, which is matched on and Map 18. I guess Glen Osmond Road there is like finding "Adelaide Road" in Mount Barker, or "Sydney Road" in Melbourne. --Scott Davis Talk 15:17, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the links. Yes, on those pages it is very clearly Glen Osmond Rd. Many thanks, Pdfpdf (talk) 09:25, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Aboriginal peoples of South Australia

Hello, ScottDavis. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "Aboriginal peoples of South Australia".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Legacypac (talk) 14:38, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. I had forgotten I had started this article. I think I intended to try to find some more references to support the later parts of the article before moving it to mainspace. I shall lattmept to improve it over the next few days. --Scott Davis Talk 23:02, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Bruce Highway towns

Hi Scott, Great job on this list for Bruce Highway. I was going to attempt a narrative route description incorporating all the town names - a rather daunting prospect. I now think a less detailed route description and retaining the list might be the way to go. Or, retain the list only for the town names not used in the route description. Thoughts? Cheers, John. Downsize43 (talk) 21:15, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi John/@Downsize43: I'd say if the list is retained, it needs to remain complete. I wondered about moving the major places from the titles into the list, but didn't do it, partly as I wasn't sure if they should be at the tops or bottoms of the sublists. I suggest writing the prose first, and see whether it looks best supported by a list or standing alone and drop the list. Cheers. --Scott Davis Talk 06:55, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. Downsize43 (talk) 05:13, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Pollies' spouses and kids

Hi Scott, I see a wife's name inserted into an Australian politician's infobox. And "three" kids. These are questionable insertions, don't you think? No verification, often temporary information, and the relevance is what, I wonder? Tony (talk) 14:31, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi Tony1. I'm not sure which article you are referring to. If I put that in an infobox, then I expect that either it was in a reference I also added in the same edit, or it was already in the prose (and referenced). --Scott Davis Talk 00:31, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
Scott, I'm also struggling to know why these details are worth putting in an infobox. And an additional concern is that we are pandering to the "working family" propaganda by the political class (especially the right). So it's not ok to be single, then, or childless (especially for a female politicians). Tony (talk) 03:01, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
I see no issue with placing the information in the infobox if it is cited in the prose. Providing the information in the infobox of those for whom it is relevant doesn't say anything about whether it is ok to not be married with kids. Penny Wong is an example that I'm pretty sure would object to being placed in the Political Right, her infobox contains her Domestic partner' name and the number of their kids. If you are seeking to get support for removing information from infoboxes, I am probably not the ally you are looking for. I supported keeping religion and denomination in them where supported by references in the prose (and Wong has both of those in the text, too). Just because a piece of information is not interesting to you at this time, doesn't mean it's not something someone else will look for at some other time, and it is far easier to find in infoboxes than reading through prose or references. --Scott Davis Talk 04:11, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
I don't agree with a thing you say. Tony (talk) 09:00, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Lameroo (disambiguation) has been accepted

Lameroo (disambiguation), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as Disambig-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.

Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

— jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 19:45, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject Women in Red/The World Contest

Hi. Thankyou for your participation in the challenge series or/and contests. In November The Women in Red World Contest is being held to try to produce new articles for as many countries worldwide and occupations as possible. There will be over $4000 in prizes to win, including Amazon vouchers and paid subscriptions. If this would appeal to you and you think you'd be interested in contributing new articles on women during this month for your region or wherever please sign up in the participants section. The articles done may also count towards the ongoing challenge. If you're not interested in prize money yourself but are willing to participate and raise money to buy books about women for others to use, this is also fine. Help would also be appreciated in drawing up the lists of missing articles. If you think of any missing articles please add them to the sub lists by continent at Missing articles. Thankyou, and if taking part, good luck!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:04, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

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Barossa Range

Could you please swap Barossa Ranges and Barossa Range. I made a mistake not realising the former was already created. Thanks and cheers, Donama (talk) 23:29, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

 Done --Scott Davis Talk 04:33, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Rex Patrick

Patrick was appointed by an SA parliament joint sitting today, so I have moved your draft to article space. I forgot you had done it and had created a stub, but I overwrote it as it was mostly the same anyway! --Canley (talk) 02:28, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. There is a green "A draft exists for this title" (or something to that effect) alert above the edit window for a red link with a draft - obviously it needs to be a little bit bigger. Thank you for overwriting, last time something like that happened, my draft was bigger, but didn't have all the newer info in the new stub, so I had to merge them manually. --Scott Davis Talk 03:23, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

How sad

It's a beautiful day, and both of us are sitting inside in front of a computer. (OK, I'm going to get on my bike, ride down to the sea, and buy an ice-cream.) Pdfpdf (talk) 07:33, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Hello, ScottDavis. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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Thanks for fixing nonsense on Ambae Island demographics

Thanks for fixing nonsense on Ambae Island demographics. I "challenged" it but didn't know how to fix it. Bruce

Women in Red World Contest

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