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Administrators' newsletter – January 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2022).

Administrator changes

added
readded Stephen
removed

Interface administrator changes

removed Nihiltres

Guideline and policy news

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

  • Voting for the Sound Logo has closed and the winner is expected to be announced February to April 2023.
  • Tech tip: You can view information about IP addresses in a centralised location using bullseye which won the Newcomer award in the recent Coolest Tool Awards.
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:09, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

RLN removed

Hello it looks like to chose to remove RLN, and whilst I do respect your position as an administrator, I do think that it would have been worthwhile engaging with the rugby league community on this one. I'm confident that the RLN did have validity in a certain respect, as it did provide a framework for players to begin to eligible for an article, providing that sufficient sources are available. I would always see that as the beginning and not the end point, but disappearing it altogether does not appear to be a perfect situation. WPRL does have a good mix of people who spend alot of time creating, and other creators who are happy to put articles up for deletion if they don't meet the playing criteria. In your position I guess you don't have to consult, but I don't think that we got a message from anyone at notability that this was on the cards, or anything official that it had happened. Obviously not a criticism, just trying to make sure everyone is on the same page and not spooked or massively enthused by it disappearing.Fleets (talk) 19:26, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Fleets This was a belated adjustment on the basis of the prior RfC that dropped appearance-based criteria for all sports across the board. I know there's some questions about whether this was an overreaction in the case of some sports, and personally I think there's merit to that. However, in ensuing discussions to reinstate appearance-based criteria for baseball and basketball, there was a pretty clear consensus against reinstating any of the individual appearance-based guidelines. If you want to argue for reinstating rugby league one, you're welcome to make the case on the notability talk page, but my guess is that it will be a steep uphill battle. signed, Rosguill talk 20:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Adrian Bouchet

Dear Rosguill,

I don't do paid writing. I translated the article from the German article at the request of the actor. I wrote this in 2020. Please tell me which information is not sufficiently documented - or delete the corresponding passages. In my opinion, the actor meets the relevance criteria. DinoKenner (talk) 10:56, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

So, I think there may have been a slight misunderstanding between me and Onel5969. I do not currently think that you, DinoKenner, are a paid editor, noting your long history of editing on de.wiki. However, the image that was added to the article File:Adrian Bouchet Headshot 2022.jpg, does appear to be paid work and suggests that Bouchet may be trying to buy his way onto Wikipedia, irrespective of your efforts. My sense, which Onel can correct, is that they saw the tag, assumed it more directly applied to your work, and draftified as a result. Further, I still have concerns about whether the subject meets notability guidelines, as the version of the article I looked at did not appear to meet WP:GNG. So, my view is that you should just make sure to establish that it meets GNG and resubmit. signed, Rosguill talk 16:52, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Rosguill, and thank you for your ping. DinoKenner, if the actor requested you translate the article, even if that is not UPE, then it is definitely COI, as you have some type of relationship with them, so please follow the instructions at WP:COI. In addition, as Rosguill as already pointed out, it needs more, and better sourcing to meet GNG. Onel5969 TT me 17:43, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
Hello you two. I've removed questionable lines and added receipts for rolls of film. I completely deleted the part with the theater play. I hope the article is ok now.--DinoKenner (talk) 15:27, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
Have you had time to review the article yet?--DinoKenner (talk) 15:49, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

I see you are one of the many to have tried to coax this editor into respecting our policies. I will certainly not offer any advice on editing to a paid editor. I am loathe to make use of ANI, but I certainly think use of admin persuasion may be appropriate. Perhaps you could take a look. Thanks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:49, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Heh, I was about to head on over to their talk page to either issue a final warning about dragging their feet on paid editing compliance or blocking them outright, having seen their run in with Theroadislong on several pages on my watchlist. I don't think this needs a trip to ANI either way. signed, Rosguill talk 17:50, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

AE

Hi, you have recently closed an AE report concerning me with topic ban from whole of ARBIPA probably after this last admin note two weeks ago but since then there were further new statements and evidence coming against OP presented in the report and some alternate considerations also came. So I just wanted to know that these later developments were taken into account in your assessment of the case before going for the said ban? USaamo (t@lk) 05:25, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

USaamo, I was not aware of the discussion on EdJohnston's talk page, but having read it now I don't see that as preempting the close at AE. While there may be valid concerns about AKG's editing as well, they do not erase the concerns raised by Swarm and EdJohnston about your editing. I'll note that in particular, what seems to have tipped the scales against you in Swarm's assessment is your failure to take ownership of your prior behavior, and instead seeking to throw the blame at AKG. For future unban requests, and editing disputes in general, you need to make sure your house is in order and not rely on tu quoque defenses. While other editors' behavior can create extenuating circumstances, you need to own up to your own behavior first. signed, Rosguill talk 18:00, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
I in my later responses indeed took the ownership of my behaviour, accepted my mistake and regretted the edit-warring from my side and still if in view of the admins it was necessary to sanction me and that will actually make Wikipedia better then be it. But admins didn't assess the problematic behaviour of OP and AE seems to have totally disregarded all the things coming against him which has given him a leverage once again to continue his tendentious editing by getting the opponents banned as was noted in one of the statement. I'm not trying to extenuate anything from it and has accepted what came against me but it's universal rule that one seeking action against other must come with clean hands and there's this important note on the top of AE that the filer conduct will also be examined and may be sanctioned but his conduct was not scrutnized the same way and even there was not a single word on it by any admin throughout the whole case. USaamo (t@lk) 12:16, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Entertainment4Reality SPI

Just letting you know I left a comment there. I don't think Jha09 is a sock of theirs (they've were editing before E4R started), but I think I did spot an account that is a sock and added it to the report. I would not be shocked to find Jha09 is a sock for a prior editor, and there's a feel of some UPE happening. That area is so filled with socks, paid editing and fan trivia that it makes my head hurts sometimes. Ravensfire (talk) 00:19, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, you may well be right. I always find it kind of funny how paid editors in Indian and Pakistani TV have created an entire garden of articles about TV shows pre-release, and then never update them once they're released. Even when the press is good! Clearly they're not getting paid enough. signed, Rosguill talk 00:37, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
Oh my, that gave me a laugh I truly needed after a crazy work day! And it seems so accurate too! Ravensfire (talk) 00:42, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Barnstar of Good Humor
for this gem. lettherebedarklight〔晚安 おやすみ〕ping me when replying 03:44, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

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Bilateral relations

To address your concerns over these articles, we should ask the IR project. German Empire-U.S. relations is not a subtopic of the main Germany-U.S. relations article because Germany is a different country than the German Empire of the late 1840s. All these Germanic states were different nations. Germany has gone through different periods of being called "Germany". But I'm all the more welcome to have anybody add more information. But so far, I haven't found much for this article. Primary sources for relations have been used across many U.S. relations articles. Using them doesn't violate any policy for references because it does count as a valid source. This is one of those project or subject specific where it can be allowed. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 18:32, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

WikiProjects don't have any special authority over guidelines and policies, although their subject matter expertise is appreciated. Typically, states that are unambiguously the precursors of other states get a single bilateral relations article covering all of their iterations: Germany–United States relations includes content dating back to the US colonial period, so it would be fairly easy to merge content into there as it stands. The issue is that notability guidelines explicitly require the existence of secondary sources to establish a subject's notability. signed, Rosguill talk 19:01, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Clarification regarding a sanction you imposed

Following a clarification request regarding appeal restrictions as part of discretionary sanctions, I have amended a sanction you previously logged at WP:AELOG/2022. The archived request can be viewed here.
For the Arbitration Committee, –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 19:52, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Plaza Verde Park

Hello, thanks for reviewing the Plaza Verde Park page! Could you tell me what you're looking for to make a public park "notable" for wikipedia? Thank you! JaneClawsten (talk) 21:12, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

I wasn't the one who placed the {{notability}} tag. The general standard is WP:GNG; as written, the CPR article is one example of significant independent coverage--the only other online source is from the city government, which is not independent so it doesn't count towards notability (it can still situationally be fine to cite, however). The two offline sources could count towards GNG, but I'm obviously unable to verify them myself. You could demonstrate an airtight case for notability by either providing additional similar citations, or by providing quotes of significant coverage from the offline sources on either the talkpage or a part of the citation template. signed, Rosguill talk 21:15, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
Oops sorry! Thank you for the explanation though! JaneClawsten (talk) 21:28, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
No worries!signed, Rosguill talk 21:29, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

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November

Hi, I replied to your message on my talk page, but you didn't respond. I wanted to make sure you saw it so I can continue editing. ReneeWrites (talk) 09:21, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

I have some follow up questions on your talk page, but you're free to continue editing at this time as long as you address the follow ups at some point. signed, Rosguill talk 15:49, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

November 2022

Hi, I replied to your message on my talk page, but you didn't respond. I wanted to make sure you saw it so I can continue editing. ~~~~ ChuchoVCJMuzik (talk) 02:59, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Yes, you're fine to keep editing. signed, Rosguill talk 03:30, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Janessa

Good morning Rosguill. Is there a reason that you deleted Janessa outright, instead of waiting at least one week after the prod template was added for people to add references? --Jax 0677 (talk) 14:59, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Jax 0677, I'm of the opinion that the text in question met WP:A7 and WP:G11 criteria for speedy deletion, in addition to being a totally unreferenced BLP. signed, Rosguill talk 15:40, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

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Article on "Ukrainian Inter-University Shakespeare Research Centre"

Dear Rosguill, My article was tagged under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion


Unfortunately, it was moved to draftspace, as I missed the time to contest the speedy deletion. Nevertheless, I would like to explain myself and my situation.

I wanted to upload this article as a part of my university project on Academic Communication. My task was to create a Wiki article on a topic that is somehow connected to Shakespeare and my culture (Ukrainian), I have decided to create an article on this Research Centre, that I learned about while researching Shakespeare in Ukrainian context. All the research, all the sources where found by me independently. I am in no way associated with the Centre (nor with Zaporizhzhia National University or Taras Shevchenko University (who co-founded the above-mentioned Centre), I do not work for them, never took part in any of the events held by the organisation. And, of course, I did not and will not receive money or any other kind of reward for writing this article. Again, this is my university project, the topic of the article was determined in accordance with the recommendations and guidelines of the class that I am taking. I really hope that my article will be reconsidered! Thank you for understanding!


Sincerely, Balol2 (talk) 21:09, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Responded at talk page. signed, Rosguill talk 22:12, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Menzies Ferry

You redirected that article to Wyndham, New Zealand without merging any material. So all my hard work has been lost. Isn't that vandalism? Donnanz (talk) 16:34, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Donnanz, no, vandalism has a very specific definition on Wikipedia, referring to edits made to intentionally deface the encyclopedia or subvert its function. In this case, I was simply enforcing our notability guidelines, which Menzies Ferry did not meet. Moreover, your work has not been lost, as the entire edit history is preserved and can be used for merging. For convenience, here is a link to the last revision prior to redirection. signed, Rosguill talk 16:48, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Well, you're obviously not a New Zealander, Menzies Ferry is NOT a part of Wyndham, being on the west (opposite) side of the Mataura River. Although Wyndham is the nearest shopping centre and post town, they are completely distinct, as the town of Wyndham is completely east of the river. Merger shouldn't be necessary (a perfect time-waster), but, depending on your reply, I will have to do it rather than lose my work. Donnanz (talk) 17:25, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

One of the cited sources ([1]) describes the location as "Menzies Ferry, Wyndham"; if there is another article (Southland Region?) that would be a more appropriate target I don't have any issues with moving content over there instead.
Alternatively, there are two main paths to establishing the notability of a place:
via WP:GNG, the general notability guideline for all topics. While the article cited multiple sources, maps and photograph metadata are neither secondary nor in-depth (and especially lacking depth with respect to Menzies Ferry as a whole, as opposed to the individual landmarks depicted). The blog rehosting excerpts from Southland Times, meanwhile, is secondary but has only minimal coverage of Menzies Ferry itself (as opposed to the Sainsbury family).
via WP:NGEO, if it can be established that Menzies Ferry is a legally-recognized geographic unit (i.e. a distinct town or ward per the New Zealand or prior British colonial authorities).
signed, Rosguill talk 18:09, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Southland District Council lists a large number of communities in Waihopai Toetoe Ward. Of these, apart from Menzies Ferry and Wyndham, I can find articles for Ashers, Brydone, Southland, Curio Bay, Dacre, New Zealand, Edendale, New Zealand, Fortrose, New Zealand, Fortification, New Zealand, Gorge Road, Grove Bush, Kapuka, New Zealand, Kapuka South, Kennington, New Zealand, Longbush, Southland, Mabel Bush, Mataura Island, Mokotua, Oteramika, Pine Bush, New Zealand, Pukewao, Rakahouka, Roslyn Bush, Slope Point, Te Peka, Te Tipua, Timpanys, Titiroa, Tokanui, Southland, Waikawa, Southland, Waimahaka, and Woodlands, New Zealand. Rimu, Southland exists as a red link. Articles for other listed communities are missing. As a Southlander born in Invercargill, I would say that some like Edendale are more notable, but many others are less or equally notable as Menzies Ferry. Donnanz (talk) 20:53, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
The linked Southland government website is sufficient for establishing notability; I was a bit thrown by our lack of documentation for community-level administrative divisions of NZ, but I'd say that site establishes recognition by the local government in the absence of sources saying otherwise. signed, Rosguill talk 21:09, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Wow, is that all it takes? Thankyou for reinstating the article. It may be a while before I attempt any more articles for Southland... Donnanz (talk) 21:50, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Yep: in principle GNG should still be met, but the fact of government recognition means that there are almost certainly additional reliable sources with extensive coverage of the subject, if not necessarily ones that are readily available online. By contrast, neighborhoods and other unofficial geographic areas that lack recognition are expected to demonstrate GNG up front, as there is no guarantee of additional sources existing. signed, Rosguill talk 21:55, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you're interested in this. There is a discrepancy between Winton Wallacetown Ward in the Southland District article and what is called Oreti Ward by Southland District Council, with its communities listed here. They cover the same area, except the Te Tipua Area on the Wikipedia page is included in Waihopai Toetoe Ward by SDC. I don't know why, maybe a renaming coupled with a ward boundary change. Donnanz (talk) 10:00, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

That theory makes sense--if there's an authoritative source for the current borders and their history it would be good to update the Wikipedia pages. signed, Rosguill talk 15:41, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, that's the problem, I will have to search. I spent ages last night checking the boundary between Invercargill and Southland District on a horrid digital map. And compare it with an NZ topo map as no place names were shown. Donnanz (talk) 17:52, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Found it and updated the page. The crucial paragraphs are 64 and 65. Donnanz (talk) 23:17, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Excellent work, cheers! signed, Rosguill talk 00:52, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

User rights

Hey Rosguill! Can you (or any admin seeing this before you) remove my NPP, PCR and PM rights? Thanks. ~StyyxTalk? 13:08, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Styyx,  Done--may I ask why you're requesting this? signed, Rosguill talk 17:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
Sounds lame but the best way to describe it is lack of motivation and needing a bit of a longer break. I haven't really been patrolling pages since September and reviewing pending changes since early August, and I'm not planning to get back to it soon. So I don't feel like I'm going to need them for some time. ~StyyxTalk? 18:24, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Undo

Please undo it. Panwar (disambiguation) TheManishPanwar (talk) 13:58, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't know what you're asking me to do here, I haven't edited that page. signed, Rosguill talk 18:07, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Removing Nicolas Cantu

Hello, was wondering HOW nicolas cantu isn't NOTABLE enough for wikipedia, and somehow, he's been known to play in multiple starring roles in the mainstream alongside being generally known online as well. doesn't make sense. He can't get one yet random tiktokers can? odd to me man. GrayNG (talk) 02:22, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

The main relevant standard is WP:GNG, which is a measure of how much has been written about a subject. Also relevant is Other stuff exists. signed, Rosguill talk 02:25, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
There are multiple articles and stuff about nicolas cantu, so- idk what else to say about that. does the article need more sources? or what GrayNG (talk) 02:28, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
Whether at the version of the article you wrote or at Draft:Nicolas Cantu, the currently cited sources do not contribute towards establishing notability due to lack of independence from the subject (and in some cases, reliability more generally). Metro is a well-known but not reliable source. signed, Rosguill talk 02:36, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
cantu does have a few sources from insider, variety, yahoo, people, and the hollywood reporter. But that's for his TWD world beyond stuff. GrayNG (talk) 02:52, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
What we need is significant coverage, detailed, independent description or analysis. A mere mention of appearing in something doesn't count for much. Which you would know by now if you had read the guidelines I linked. signed, Rosguill talk 02:55, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
He has a lot of independent coverage from unreliable sources lmao. kinda sucks. GrayNG (talk) 03:02, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
That level of coverage is typically the result of someone putting out a paid PR blitz. signed, Rosguill talk 03:03, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
Really? didn't know that. Thanks for explaining this to me and everything. GrayNG (talk) 03:04, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
btw if i have any other questions i'll come back to ya for help. Have a good night! GrayNG (talk) 03:08, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

New IP and they wont stop

Hello could you please block this ip [[2]], they already went 3rr, with removing sourced content, on Hussar page, even though they got warned. Thank you. Theonewithreason (talk) 19:44, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Looks like another admin beat me to it. signed, Rosguill talk 20:02, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
Nevertheless thank you, could you please restore sourced content they removed? [[3]], Theonewithreason (talk) 29 November 2022 (UTC)
Thank you. Theonewithreason (talk) 29 November 2022 (UTC)
 Done. I'd appreciate if you started a thread on the talk page to head off the line of edits that the IP was making, to at least try to engage the IP in discussion. It probably won't work, but it will make heading off future disruption easier. signed, Rosguill talk 20:15, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
I do that sometimes, but mostly it does not work, will do it in the future.Theonewithreason (talk) 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Snehlata

<ref>https://blog.ipleaders.in/rewriting-sharing-news-articles-amounts-violation-copyright-law/?amp=1<ref> Their are no copyright in news so kindly revert back my edits Bhagruti (talk) 03:37, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Nope, you copied text directly from the source, that's not allowed under Indian law, US law, or Wikipedia rules. The article you're citing covers copying of paraphrased information, not direct copying of verbatim text. And at any rate, as our servers are in the US, only US law applies. signed, Rosguill talk 05:53, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
I would recommend that you read Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources, as it explains the relevant policies that apply on Wikipedia. signed, Rosguill talk 06:00, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Regarding notability tag on 'Chetan Singh'

Hi Rosguill, thanks for reviewing my additions to the article on the historian Chetan Singh. There, you mention that the article proves the notability of one of his books (Himalayan Histories) but not of the historian himself. It left me confused. The section reception also talks of the critical reception of another book by him (Himalayan Premises, 1998) for which he is widely known. These two are works for which Singh is particularly well known. Isn't that enough to make him notable? Besides, the section 'Career' mentions that he was the director of the Indian Institute of Advanced Studies (IIAS) from 2013 till 2016. That Directorship alone, in India, is considered a big thing in the academia and higher research more generally as well, since the IIAS is the Indian equivalent of the Institute of Advanced Studies at Princeton in the US. Therefore, I request you to kindly reconsider Singh's 'notability'. Thanks. Apandeyhp89 (talk) 13:16, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Apandeyhp89, ah, that's my mistake, I must have read over it too quickly and didn't notice that the Reception paragraph switches books halfway through. There's still an issue of lacking independent sources that provide biographical coverage of Singh, but that's more or less par for the course for academics. signed, Rosguill talk 17:18, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for going over the article again and reconsidering the notability of this article, Rosguill. Best wishes. Apandeyhp89 (talk) 15:33, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Redirect autopatroll list

Hello Rosguill, I hope you're well.

I was looking at the redirect autopatrolled user list and I noticed that it has no mention about requirements to remove users from the list. Just wanted to confirm, is it required that someone be an admin to remove users who are autopatrolled from this list? If so I'll just make a post at removals. Just thought it might be easier if I was allowed to do it myself, as I have a list of 18 users who are autopatrolled but appear on that list. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:06, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Hey man im josh, I believe the page is set up so that only administrators can edit it; I don't think there's a way to implement it so that non-admins can remove but not add. signed, Rosguill talk 16:17, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
Ah, I hadn't even tried to edit it so I wasn't aware of that. I see now that the edit tab is missing for me, so I feel a little silly having messaged about this. I'll just submit the request. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:24, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

WP:NPP trainee

Hello! May I ask if you have any open NPP trainee slots? Thank you! Silikonz💬 02:11, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Silikonz, yes, is there anything in particular you are hoping to practice, or did you want to do the full course? signed, Rosguill talk 03:41, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
Hi. Not anything in particular; would you have any recommendations for me? Although, if I have a lot to work on, I'm willing to take the full thing. Thanks! Silikonz💬 03:48, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
Silikonz, looking through your edit history, while you've done good work in anti-vandalism, I don't see much in the way of content creation. I'd ask that you try your hand at creating an article or two, then come check in with me again. signed, Rosguill talk 03:56, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. That seems like some sound advice. Silikonz💬 03:58, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
You can take a look at Wikipedia:Requested articles, although it's not the most accessible page. Women in Red also maintains their own list of prospective biographies to write. If you're interested in writing about media, you can go to aggregator sites like RottenTomatoes or Metacritic (or alternatively, music charts) to look for recent media that meets notability guidelines. If you want a suggestion right off the bat, I've been meaning to write an article for Constitution of Zanzibar that you could take a crack at instead. signed, Rosguill talk 04:06, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
Thanks so much for your input! I'll have a look around. Silikonz💬 04:06, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
Hey Rosguill, on an unrelated note, does the Wikipedia Library not provide access for American National Biography? I've tried to access numerous articles of theirs through TWL (it appears on the dashboard for some reason), and all of them are still paywalled. Thanks! Silikonz💬 15:10, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Silikonz, can't say that I've ever tried to access that source, sorry! signed, Rosguill talk 16:55, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

NPP School

I am the new account of User:Eyebeller, I lost access to my account. I am interested in starting/continuing NPP School. I know we have started the school before but it wasn't going so well, therefore I would be happy to start again if you feel it is appropriate to do so. I have already done a significant amount of reading of relevant policies e.g. NOR, GNG, etc. to refresh my memory. I know this account doesn't meet the 500 mainspace edit count requirement, however if you could please use my old accounts edit count to meet that criteria, that would be appreciated. Thanks ProofRobust 08:28, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

ProofRobust, given where we left off in NPPSCHOOL last time, I'd like to see a new track record of good participation at AfD before restarting anything. signed, Rosguill talk 17:04, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
Can you please expand on this a bit? Should I post another message on your talk after I think I have a "new track record of good participation at AFD"? ProofRobust 21:21, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
ProofRobust Yes, basically I'd want to see a track record of participation at AfD that demonstrates a) thoughtful and accurate arguments based on policy and guidelines and b) the ability to handle disagreement without undue acrimony. signed, Rosguill talk 21:44, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
Can you please provide some input on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2022 Jubba Airways crash? I am unsure as to why they are being called "secondary sources". ProofRobust 16:41, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
ProofRobust, at a glance those sources do appear to be secondary, as they are published by independent journalistic outlets. What they may not be, and what I think you're picking up on, is significant coverage of the subject, which is important as well. signed, Rosguill talk 18:33, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Can you please explain how they are secondary? I do not see how they are analysing or evaluating primary sources? ProofRobust 19:03, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

BBC and AVHerald's cover appear to be based on local media coverage and statements from authorities, and provide context behind the comments as well. It's minimal, but it is analysis. I think the bigger concern here would be WP:LASTING--all current coverage is from within a month of the incident. That having been said, given that it received coverage in the BBC in English, I would expect there to be substantial local coverage, likely in additional languages other than English. signed, Rosguill talk 20:24, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
I have been starting to build a new track record of (hopefully) good participation. I know my participation hasn't been extensive, therefore I plan to continue participating in AfD. I do think I have demonstrated both of your criteria (at least partially) with my recent participation. I also feel much more confident in evaluating whether an article meets WP:GNG, a fundamental skill for NPP. Therefore, I would like to request again that we continue NPP School, although I do understand if you want to see more participation in AfD from myself before doing so. ProofRobust 22:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
ProofRobust, it looks like you're on the right track, check back in with me in a few weeks. signed, Rosguill talk 23:40, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Checking back in with you. I believe I have demonstrated both of your criteria. I would like to carry on NPP School if this is OK with you but am open to any feedback/suggestions. ProofRobust 21:34, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
ProofRobust--indeed, I think your recent track record looks good. My only concern at this point would be that we had actually gone through most of the NPPSCHOOL training at the time we left off, so I'd need to draft up more materials for training. Looking at your old NPPSCHOOL page, it looks like NPOV corrections and identifying reliable sources may be the areas that could use practice. Does that sound good to you? signed, Rosguill talk 16:15, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
That sounds great. ProofRobust 16:26, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
Cool, I'll try to get some new exercises ready by the end of the week. signed, Rosguill talk 16:46, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
Thank you. Please send me a ping when you have done that. I also would like to highlight that I am looking to get the new page reviewer right back when you feel I am competent enough to review new pages. ProofRobust 21:00, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
ProofRobust, I've added more source assessment practice at User:Rosguill/Eyebeller_NPPSCHOOL#Extra_source-assessment_practice signed, Rosguill talk 19:11, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 Done ProofRobust 22:08, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

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I think I broke the Reliable Sources Noticeboad

Just kidding, it's not quite that bad, but in trying to fix some typos in the header I fat-fingered my way into producing a duplicate post with the typos fixed.

That would be NBD but for some reason I can't edit the post with the typos to be able to delete it. I am not sure what happened, but if you can tell would you please delete the post about the Aswang Project that has the typos in the header, or if not maybe suggest someone who can help me fix this? My face is very red. Elinruby (talk) 18:01, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

I've tried reverting myself and it tells me the post has already been deleted. Purged the page in both mobile and desktop view. No edit icon. Yes, it's signed by me, so the problem isn't authentication. Lighting candles Elinruby (talk) 18:24, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
I think we may have had an edit conflict there. The problem appears to have been caused by a stray open [[ at the end of the subheading breaking the formatting. signed, Rosguill talk 18:25, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, one of the typos was "[[" instead of "]]" at the end of the header. I could see it but I couldn't get to it to fix it, no icon. Thanks for the update, making a note to link in the body in future. Appreciate the rescue.Elinruby (talk) 20:05, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

I was temporarily unable to post edits, got something about a 'CSRF token'

Hi Rosguill, since you often review my articles, I wish to ask for your advice and help. Today, while adding referenced information to the page on 'Shekhar Pathak', suddenly, for a few minutes, Wikipedia began to not publish my edits, showing a note that I was logged out of session. I was actually logged in, and when I went on another page to see if I could make edits there, the same note came up. When I tried to logout, something about a 'CSRF token' came up, which prevented me from logging out of Wikipedia. I restarted my computer. Still the same message. All in all, this happened for about five minutes. Then, unexpectedly, I was able to logout, log back in, and make edits again. Should I be worried? Is this normal? Why did this happen? Apandeyhp89 (talk) 13:01, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Apandeyhp89 That sounds like a networking issue, CSRF tokens are used to authenticate user accounts on a website. Either something went out of sync with your ISP or Wikipedia's servers had a hiccup. If it's working again now, I wouldn't worry about it. signed, Rosguill talk 15:43, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
Apandeyhp89 I hope you don't mind me "cutting in" here. I just wanted to make an observation/suggestion that there are many ways your editing session can be interrupted and fail, and there's no assurance that your edits won't be lost. A good idea is to make a local save of your edited content to a local file (e.g. copy and paste to a saved local file using a text editor) after every few minutes of editing, it's a little bit of a nuisance to avoid the great frustration of losing your non-trivial edits. Fabrickator (talk) 19:53, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, Fabricator. That is a good idea indeed. Apandeyhp89 (talk) 22:47, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, Rosguill. That's reassuring. Apandeyhp89 (talk) 22:46, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Contentious topics procedure adopted

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November 2022 Deletion of page on "Priyadarshni Academy Awards'

Dear Rosguill, i replied to your question on my talk page, but there is no response from your side. Pleasee reply to my query on my talk page. thanks. LoveAll (talk). 12:09, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Responded at your talk page. signed, Rosguill talk 16:59, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
Wrote on my talk page on Nov 16 "Kindly move the article to the draft space so that i can modify it to suit the neutrality point of view.
Thanks". please reply. LoveAll (talk). 11:37, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Dear Rosguill, i have modified the article to suit the NPOV criteria. Please have a look.LoveAll (talk). 11:58, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
Feel free to resubmit it through AfC. signed, Rosguill talk 13:36, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Adopt me?

Hello - I'm new here, and I want to get involved. I just made a profile page to explain who I am and what I am about. After making the page, which includes my adoption request banner, I saw that I can browse possible adoptees. I went through many, and yours stood out. First because you are an admin and mod. I want to make a difference. I'm not looking to get from A to Z immediately, but I am generally aware of what I want my Z to be, and I feel like someone who is an admin and mod could help me think through the best way to make maximum impact based on my skills. I then browsed your talk page to see your methods for conflict resolution, and I feel like I would approach things in a very similar way as you do. Which makes me think you and I might share some important values. Which makes me think you'd be a great mentor for me.


Will you take me on? I don't know 100% what I want to do here yet. You can read my page for more info about me to get an idea of what my unorganized thoughts look like, and perhaps help guide me. While I didn't have a particular interest in NPP until I saw the topic on your talk page, it does seem very interesting to me, and if that would be a good way to dive into this world a little quicker than the intro edit tools that I saw when I first created my account, then I'm all for it. And as I mention on my page, I just quit my job, so I have time to devote to new things right now. My only condition is that I spend my time productively. That can be following the path laid out on the site, which is excellently organized by the way, and very engaging and encouraging and welcoming - reading the guides and wikis and maybe watching some third-party youtube videos and starting to edit articles, improve things, maybe make new articles. That all sounds really fun and productive and it's in line with why I came here in the first place, and that's what I'll probably do by default without your input. But if there's an opportunity to talk to someone knowledgeable that might be able to provide some more personalized advice and guidance, I'd love that.


I don't need any kind of immediate return, and that includes intrinsic returns. But rather I need to feel like what I'm doing is good and right and that I'm progressing towards something that matters. In other words, I'm OK editing articles to add wikilinks, proofreading, etc. even though I think that I would get much more satisfaction from doing tasks that are more substantive and meaningful to me, but if that's a good path for starting out and learning the ropes, for ultimately making a bigger difference, then that works for me too.


Feel free to ask me questions. Most of this post is about what I like about you and why I think you can help me, but I fully intend for this relationship to be a two-way street. If there are ways that I can help you once you get to know me, I of course would welcome the opportunity, and would hope for it.


I hope this was an OK channel to post this. I assume DM isn't a thing on wikipedia.


Thanks,

RickyDeeds RickyDeeds (talk) 18:59, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

RickyDeeds, given that you're just starting out editing, I recommend checking out our task center, which describes and provides relevant links to various fields of work that should be a good way to get your feet wet. Beyond that, as much as I can sympathize with the desire to be able to edit Wikipedia full-time for pay, there are very few opportunities to do so, and most editors who are also employed by the WMF exclusively do non-editing work in their WMF capacity; I wouldn't set your editing goals around trying to parlay your editing into a job. signed, Rosguill talk 19:20, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
Got it. I'll start at the task center, and I will remove monetization from my mindset with respect to what I want to do here, which really seems for the best anyways. Thanks for your help! RickyDeeds (talk) 20:11, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Advice

I was wondering if you could give me some advice. I am just going to type out my thoughts here. I feel that my NPP School peformance is being negatively held against me without consideration that most of the school was done 2 years ago. As I have stated before, if I did the school today I would have done better - not perfect but significantly better. Additionally, I do not think that NPP School proves my true abilities and I don't think it ever will. I think I am much better at reviewing/patrolling rather than creating. Therefore I might easily identify an article that is promotional or has neutrality issues but I will struggle to rewrite it to be an acceptable article. I have said this before but I truly believe I have the potential to be a competent new page reviewer. I have attempted to prove this through participation at AfD but this seems to be cancelled out by my NPP School performance and not considered. My current request for new page reviewer permissions was simply marked as Not Done for failing NPP School. Whilst this is an understandable response I struggle to see how I can make a reviewing administrator overlook this. I can not redo the school - is this going to be held against me forever? If I had not done the school in the first place, I am almost sure I would have been granted the right on a temporary basis today. I really would like to patrol new pages as it is something I would fine enjoyable. However, this situation is draining my motivation. Additionally, I do not feel that my current request is going to go any further. The Administrator is not responding and seems to have abandoned the request despite repeated attempts to engage in a conversation and come to a resolution. Anyway, this is mostly irrelevant and I AGF. However, this does not simply mean that I can simply re-request soon as the Not Done reason will be "see last rejection". So really, I am stuck and not sure how to get out of this situation. I really don't know what to do. Once again, I am seriously considering WP:CLEANSTART but am taking one more chance to try and see what I can do on this account and avoid unnecessary work for myself. To me this whole situation seems completely unfair. I am not blaming anyone for anything but as I said my desire to learn and improve is being held against me. I actually think that I learn more by getting a question wrong, receiving feedback than getting the answer straight away. I think this can be said for a lot of people. So I have really learnt a lot from NPP School but when an Administrator sees it all they will see is a page which has a lot of red crosses. I do not feel like I have had a real opportunity to even learn from my mistakes. It is almost as if "you got it wrong - you will never be trusted with this". But as I have said numerous times before, I do not think NPP School is a true representation of my abilities. Your thoughts and advice is greatly appreciated. ProofRobust 22:48, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

ProofRobust, you have a severe lack of WP:CLUE if you think writing this to me was a good idea. I have repeatedly, if politely, told you that I don't think you are ready for NPP permissions. Your response was to ask for them anyway, harangue the other admin who said no, and now to come begging me for help again. If you wanted my advice, you should have paid attention to it earlier. signed, Rosguill talk 00:36, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Your advice said to write articles which I said I will not be doing. Do you have anything else to add? ProofRobust 01:32, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Honestly, I think you have been extremely unsympathetic and unhelpful. If Administrators treat editors this way - Wikipedia is definitely not for me. I think that the conduct I have seen from Administrators, not just yourself, is unacceptable for users who should be exemplary. ProofRobust 01:42, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
You've wasted enough of editors' time across your various meltdowns. Good riddance. signed, Rosguill talk 02:43, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Fastily, care to chime in at all (and see the edit history as well)? signed, Rosguill talk 03:19, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Yup, left a warning on OP's talk page. Regards, FASTILY 05:40, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Your personal attack

Dear Rosguill, I invite you to withdraw the comment you made against me per WP:NPA. As an Administrator, I hope you are familiar with this policy. Please focus on this part: Do not make personal attacks anywhere on Wikipedia. Comment on content, not on the contributor. Personal attacks harm the Wikipedia community and the collaborative atmosphere needed to create a good encyclopedia. Derogatory comments about other editors may be removed by any editor. I hope you will make the right decision. Regards, ProofRobust 10:09, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

ProofRobust, I was more rude in my last few responses because I genuinely thought that was the only way of getting through to you, as you completely ignored or misinterpreted my more polite attempts to steer you to the right track. Your continued belaboring of this point is only further convincing me that I was right to not give you advanced permissions, and that any future attempt to do so, on this account or a sockpuppet, is only going to end with you getting into spectacularly disruptive fights with other editors once again. With regards to your NPP work, I'd say you're a B- student in terms of mastery of relevant policy, and an F in terms of your temperament. Cease and desist, kiddo. signed, Rosguill talk 18:46, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
I understand your reasoning. Now, is there anyway which I can move forward with the aim of getting closer to gaining new page reviewer permissions? ProofRobust 19:49, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) There is not much I can say that already has been said by Rosguill (Who has replied to you with an admirable amount of gentility) but do know that the sheer intensity that you have on gaining this privilege will only hurt you in the future. The Night Watch (talk) 22:14, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
I do not consider expressions such as "Cease and desist, kiddo.", and "Good riddance" gentle so obviously we have differing opinions on that. That is why I am doing a WP:CLEANSTART as that is clearly the only way to go. My requests for help/advice are being ignored/result in personal attacks being thrown at me. If someone would just talk with me properly this whole situation could have been avoided. ProofRobust 22:24, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
I believe an editor once told me "I don’t want to waste my time explaining stuff to people who won’t listen.". It's good advice, in general, and worth reflecting on. signed, Rosguill talk 22:29, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
I said that I am willing to listen to your advice. I only said that I wouldn't create articles. Do you have any other advice for me? ProofRobust 22:33, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Review question

Hey mate, I see that you have reviewed many of the new pages and redirects that I created, so I figured you might be the one to ask. I was wondering if there is a way to tell whether a page has been reviewed other than through our notifications? I accidentally marked mine as read before checking which pages had been reviewed. Right now I'm specifically looking at this redirect, but I would also just like to know how to check in general. I wasn't sure where to address my rationale for this redirect title, and I know we have to be careful with topics that broach WP:FRINGE, so I put citations from the media referring to Pais' work in this way on the talk page of the redirect. Thanks in advance. Cheers! Enix150 (talk) 01:40, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Enix150, you can check a page's review status by going to the logs. There's two ways to get there: you can look up the page using the search form at Special:Logs, or you can go to the page's history tab and hit the "view logs for this page" button below the title of the page signed, Rosguill talk 02:46, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Thanks so much! I didn't think to look in the page history. Judging by the fact that I only see my creation of the page in the logs, even with all filters enabled, am I correct in assuming that the page has not been reviewed/patrolled yet then? Is there any way you could possibly review it and/or the target article it redirects to? I am also curious as to what the review process entails, but looking through your talk page I see that there is a lot to learn on that front, so I will do my own digging in the meantime. Thanks again! Enix150 (talk) 02:48, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
Enix150, you're correct that it hasn't been reviewed. You can read more about the review process here. I don't do reviews on request, but the backlog is currently rather short so you can expect it to get reviewed soon. signed, Rosguill talk 07:02, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
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