User talk:Robert J Nagle

Hello Robert J Nagle! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I think its very important for you to browse through some of the links below so as to become familiar with how Wikipedia works. If you need any help you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and another Wikipedian will show up shortly. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking

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See Where Vanity is allowed. This clearly says an individual has a right to create a user page. It says

Signed-in users may use their user subspace to publish short autobiographies within the bounds of good taste and compatible with the purpose of working on the encyclopedia.

Robert J Nagle 12:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that this page clearly spells out the

guidelines for allowed content on user pages. My user page (which consists of 8 lines) is hardly violating any of the policies spelled out on user page content. Remember: Vanity/Notability does NOT apply for user pages.

May 2008

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, one or more of the external links you added to the page Haley Paige do not comply with our guidelines for external links and have been removed. Wikipedia is not a collection of links; nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Tabercil (talk) 12:18, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

although I truly intend to say goodbye to Wikipedia forever, here is the dialogue that prompted the decision)

File permission problem with File:Jack-matthews-author-profile.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Jack-matthews-author-profile.jpg. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file agreed to license it under the given license.

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Clay Reynolds (Author) (August 30)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted because it included copyrighted content, which is not permitted on Wikipedia.

Wikipedia cannot accept material copied from elsewhere, unless it explicitly and verifiably has been released to the world under a suitably-free and compatible copyright license or into the public domain and is written in an acceptable tone—this includes material that you own the copyright to. You should attribute the content of a draft to outside sources, using citations, but copying and pasting or closely paraphrasing sources is not acceptable. The entire draft should be written using your own words and structure. Note to reviewers: do not leave copyright violations sitting in the page history. Please follow the instructions here.

You are welcome to write an article on the subject, but please do not use copyrighted work.

Draft:Clay Reynolds (Author) may be deleted at any time unless the copied text is removed. Copyrighted work cannot be allowed to remain on Wikipedia.
If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page. or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Perryprog (talk) 19:51, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Robert J Nagle! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Perryprog (talk) 19:51, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Clay Reynolds (Author) has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Clay Reynolds (Author). Thanks! Perryprog (talk) 20:07, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Clay Reynolds (author) (November 2)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by TheBirdsShedTears was:

This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

The comment the reviewer left was:

Most of the parts are supported by primary sources which need to be replaced by reliable sources. This article also need copy-editing to maintain neutral point of view and encyclopaedic tone. For example, "Reynolds said that his father (Jessie Wrex" be changed to "His father was railroad man". Also pay attention to lead section. For example, Author of 10+ books of fiction, 5 books of nonfiction, hundreds of published essays and 1000+ book reviews should be rewrite like he wrote more than ten fiction books etc...

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Clay Reynolds (author) and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Clay Reynolds (author), click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
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TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 13:51, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Clay Reynolds (author) has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Clay Reynolds (author). Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 20:01, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Clay Reynolds (author) has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Clay Reynolds (author). Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 07:13, 9 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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November 2021

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, such as at Draft talk:Clay Reynolds (author), (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either:

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Thank you. Theroadislong (talk) 16:01, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Clay Reynolds (author) (November 26)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by DGG were:

This submission does not appear to be written in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia article. Entries should be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources. Please rewrite your submission in a more encyclopedic format. Please make sure to avoid peacock terms that promote the subject.

This submission reads more like an essay than an encyclopedia article. Submissions should summarise information in secondary, reliable sources and not contain opinions or original research. Please write about the topic from a neutral point of view in an encyclopedic manner.

The comment the reviewer left was:

Reynolds is notable.

The article however reads like a blog post or essay, and needs to be rewritten to Wikipedia standard. The critical problem is that every statement that appears to be a judgement or evaluation of him or his work must be supported by a specific 3rd party reliable published source

the individual's statements about elements of his background are his own opinion of himself, and not reliable 3rd party sources, and biographical details based on them are usually considered promotional, and aren't accepted here.

The most practical way to proceed would probably be to shorten the article somewhat, and focus not on his personal bio, but on his published work. Include substantial reviews in third-party published independent reliable sources, such a major national newspapers, not press releases, blurbs, blogs, Amazon, or Goodreads Then notify me on my usertalk page, and I shall accept it.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Clay Reynolds (author) and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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DGG ( talk ) 02:23, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict of interest

Looking at your bio on your user page, which I should have looked at sooner, I see that you say your career is at least in part in publishing small press fiction and promoting authors, it is therefore reasonable to ask whether you are a connected contributor with respect to this particular author, in which case you must declare the connection. l. Please see our rules on Conflict of Interest And if hte connection hasany financial aspects, see also WP:PAID for the necessary disclosures. I ask you the same with respect ot any edits you have made involving other texas authors.

These disclosures are required, not optional DGG ( talk ) 01:25, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have written back to DGG to say that I am not a connected contributor regarding Clay Reynolds or any other Texas author. There is no conflict of interest. But I did put a COI notice about Jack Matthews author on my User page. Robert J Nagle (talk) 05:46, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Clay Reynolds (author) has been accepted

Clay Reynolds (author), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as C-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. This is a great rating for a new article, and places it among the top 21% of accepted submissions — kudos to you! You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider leaving us some feedback.

Thanks again, and happy editing!

Greenman (talk) 08:42, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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AfC notification: Draft:David Steinberg (journalist and photographer) has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:David Steinberg (journalist and photographer). Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 19:00, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Theroadislong I just started drafting the article. Please let me put together a decent draft of this article first. I'm pretty sure that this living person meets Wiki's notability criteria very easily. Thanks! Robert J Nagle (talk) 19:05, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of David Steinberg (journalist and photographer) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article David Steinberg (journalist and photographer) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Steinberg (journalist and photographer) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:54, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Managing a conflict of interest

Hello, Robert J Nagle. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on the page David Steinberg (journalist and photographer), you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for article subjects for more information. We ask that you:

avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization, clients, or competitors;
propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the {{edit COI}} template)—don't forget to give details of reliable sources supporting your suggestions;
disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest § How to disclose a COI);
avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam § External link spamming);
do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicizing, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. Theroadislong (talk) 20:27, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am extremely familiar with COI policies. I have declared all this is necessary to declare here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Steinberg (journalist and photographer)#c-Robert J Nagle-20241110192500-Timtrent-20241110085400 If you are posting here, then I assume that you have already read my COI on my personal page. Also: aside from giving my long reply to the issue about notability, I am going to step back and let other wiki editors weigh in. Personally, I find these kinds of insinuations extremely insulting. Robert J Nagle (talk) 20:41, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I won't be editing this article any further until the notability/deletion question is settled. Robert J Nagle (talk) 20:41, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since you have been in contact with Steinberg, your conflict of interest is absolutely crystal clear, you need to disclose this on your user page and request edits with the template {{edit COI}} on the article talk page going forward. Wikipedia has zero interest in any information you have received directly from him, we require ALL content to be sourced to reliable, independent, published sources. Theroadislong (talk) 22:50, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would be happy to file a COI if necessary. But I don't see anything in Wiki's policy of COI which requires disclosure of email contact as a COI with the subject. Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#General COI That is why I am uncomfortable about abiding by a rule that seems not to exist. If I filed a COI (and I would do so if necessary), it will be only under protest and only because you personally insisted on it. If anything, this is an "perceived conflict of interest" rather than an "actual conflict of interest."

I'd have to go back to my emails and look, but I don't think my contact with the author resulted in any meaningful input from the author. I asked him about whether he had children and I asked about a detail about his work in the 1960s (which as you correctly pointed out, was not verifiable and properly deleted it). Oh, yes, I asked him about his speeches during the 1980s (and as I noted above, I didn't mention at all because there was no reliable sources about that). Also, he looked at the article after it was live and mentioned that his birth place was Jamaica, NY, not Queens and mentioned that one of my book citations was wrong. These are routine uncontroversial changes. I think I identified every single source where I obtained my information in the article.

I mentioned before that Steinberg had composed a draft wikipedia article about himself a few years ago which he forwarded to me. I glanced at it, but it was mostly useless and I don't think I used any of it. Perhaps I might have cross-checked my own draft against it; I don't remember.

I should remind you that Wiki policy does allow the article subject to edit an article about himself in certain limited cases. I read that to mean that Wikipedia does not forbid article subjects from expressing opinions about articles about themselves. If that is true, than receiving superficial feedback hardly counts as disqualifying. The subject could have just as easily left the same feedback on the article's talk page.

I will make a COI under protest after posting this. If that means that I no longer have the right to make further edits without approval, that's fine.

One reason I really dislike doing this is in the normal course of working as a writer and publisher and blogger, I make contact with lots of people (writers, artists, musicians, business people). A few are close friends or people I have written about on my blog, but the overwhelming majority of them are people I met once at a conference or maybe discussed a topical issue or a publishing issue once upon a time. Asking working writers to make a COI disclosure for all these cases would be a senseless and needless burden.

An important part of being a writer is identifying interesting and important things and people for the purpose of writing about them. Most of the time we do this on an unpaid basis. This insistence on COI makes it practically impossible for me to contribute to Wikipedia about the subjects I know best. Robert J Nagle (talk) 23:44, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One other thing. I just noticed that the two other COI notices I posted in 2021 or 2022 about unrelated articles don't seem to have been done correctly. I need to fix those two things first. I will post the COI on the David Steinberg talk page within a day or so. Robert J Nagle (talk) 00:38, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are dancing very close to WP:BOMBARD

Please know that the best method of handling an AfD is to make one will argued and policy based, concise argument, stating your entire case succinctly. You are in severe danger of obscuring the arguments you seek to put by a welter of detail, and by seeking to rebut every single pointy you do not agree with. Now, I don't care. I trust the ultimate uninvolved closer of the discussion. You really ought to care since you are seeking to keep the article.

tl;dr they who say the least, with relevant policy quoted, tend to prevail 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:40, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I realize that any reply runs the risk of proving your point, and indeed, I understand that responding to everything might sound too antagonistic. But I wanted to write a longer response about the notability issue and did so -- especially when it seems that a number of you appear to have already weighed in about notability. Some have raised the COI issue -- and I have tried to address it, but that's all moot if the group can't be persuaded about notability. Robert J Nagle (talk) 14:02, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just want you to be fair to your own arguments and thus have the greatest possible chance of your views prevailing. That I disagree with your thinking is fine, and ought not to be a problem for either of us. The community is greater than the individual and you and I will bend to its will, expressed by consensus 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This may surprise you

You have said that you recommended that David Steinberg upload a picture of himself (eg) to Commons. That is almost always impossible.

If it is, or appears to be, a picture of the uploader, but there is no evidence that the image is under an acceptable free licence, it is a copyright or licencing violation (0.99 probability). Ownership or possession of a photo, proprietorship of the equipment used to take the photo, or being the subject of the photo does not equate holding the copyright. The copyright holder is the photographer (i.e. the person who took the photo), rather than the subject (the person who appears in the photo) or the person possessing the photo, unless transferred by operation of law (e.g. inheritance, etc.) or by contract (written and signed by the copyright holder, and explicitly transfers the copyright). Evidence of any transfer of licencing must be sent via COM:VRT

Copyright is more difficult than people think. Such a picture will be deleted from Commons, though a case may be made for retention via c:COM:VRT. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 15:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it was incorrectly flagged by a bot. I already took care of that and it will be restored. Fun fact: I spent months unsuccessfully trying to get a photo for another article, and in my frustration, I ended up writing a long how-to about it on my blog: https://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/2022/04/how-to-submit-author-photos-to-wikimedia-commons-for-wikipedia/ Robert J Nagle (talk) 15:53, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Steinberg is a professional photographer. He submitted a self-portrait. Robert J Nagle (talk) 20:47, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He would be wise to adopt the email route for certainty of success with pictures of himself. There is something called c:COM:PCP which is likely to trip him up. I could illustrate this by suggesting that your example picture requires permission. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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