User talk:Missvain/Archive 19

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Missvain. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 15

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Archive 17

Archive 18

Archive 19

Question on the TH about history merges.

Hey Sarah, I just wanted to check with you that I provided the right information to a question at the TH. The user was asking about an administrator's ability to merge page histories, and I thought that this would not be necessary in this particular case. The conversation is here. If my information is incorrect, the correct info would be appreciated. Thanks! hajat vrc @ 18:25, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I saw the question and I don't have an answer. I'm hoping someone else can chime in! SarahStierch (talk) 18:26, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I responded there. More information is available at Wikipedia:How to fix cut-and-paste moves. I don't feel that it is entirely necessary, but didn't expand on that at the Teahouse. Ryan Vesey 18:41, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Ha, that is one of those pages I could just never make it all the way through. I would have to have had about six cups of coffee before hand. hajat vrc @ 19:00, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Also, questions like this should probably be best asked at WP:Teahouse/Host lounge talk page. I wish I knew it all, but, we've got an awesome crew of folks who generally, when our powers are combined, do! SarahStierch (talk) 21:29, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Understood, it is just that when one posts to your page, about a thousand people see it, haha. Plus, I wanted to direct the question at an admin, since it involved admins, but I'm sure you would still see it at the Host lounge, so I will remember that. hajat vrc @ 01:01, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Correction: 173 people see it. hajat vrc @ 01:04, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

congrats

Belated congrats from me too, you have the first unanimous RFA to get over 200 supports! When you have a minute you might want to check out my monobook. various kind people have added useful things to it, including a dropdown box for blocking that includes appropriate block templates. Ϣere SpielChequers 23:49, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Allow me to add another note of congratulations! It was a pleasure meeting you at Wikimania and I hope our paths cross again soon. Until then, --Another Believer _(Talk) 14:35, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

(By the way, I was sure to visit Ad Astra while in D.C. in your honor!) --Another Believer _(Talk) 15:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks WSC! And thanks AB :) It was also great meeting you at Wikimania, and I hope you enjoyed Ad Astra (Lippold sculpture) :) See you on the west coast I"m sure... SarahStierch (talk) 16:47, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations

Congratulations on your new tools

— Berean Hunter (talk) 17:04, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Teahouse proposal

Hey Sarah! I've started a discussion about a proposal to add an additional subpage. I would like your input on this proposal, if possible. Thanks! -- Luke (Talk) 19:47, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Done SarahStierch (talk) 20:10, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

Fresh from the Mediterranean region, don't worry about cavities :-) Fellowpacker (talk) 02:14, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Missvain. You have new messages at TheIrishWarden's talk page.
Message added 07:46, 1 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Thєíríshwαrdєn - írísh αnd prσud 07:46, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	For becoming a Wikipedia admin with such overwhelming support. Have fun with your new tools (but not too much fun. You have work to do.) Brambleberry ^{☾of RC☽} 19:43, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Hello from AAA

Hi Sarah - just checking in from the AAA. Have finally dipped my toe in the water a bit and was delighted to find the Teahouse, what a great resource! All best from your many admirers here. Marisa Mfbjr (talk) 16:29, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Mfbjr!! Thanks for dropping by, saying hi, and I'm glad the Teahouse has proven helpful =) SarahStierch (talk) 22:14, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thank you for the Teahouse mesage. Getting a declined article is dissappointing

Ponies89 (talk) 19:08, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I hope you don't let it get you down! Thanks for the kitten! SarahStierch (talk) 22:14, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Missvain. You have new messages at Dalahäst's talk page.
Message added 23:10, 2 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

dalahäst ^{(let's talk!)} 23:10, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thanks, Sarah, for your kind invite for me to visit the Teahouse. I hope to do so later this evening, as I do have questions and will at least browse thru and learn. I am looking forward to my visit there! Again, thank you! The help you and others have provided me is greatly appreciated. Albeit27 (talk) 23:49, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Glad you saw the invite, and I look forward to seeing you there :) SarahStierch (talk) 23:50, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the great work on the olympics coverage

Hello ((user)), thanks for you hard work on our coverage of the the Olypmics, a whole range of articles got created, improved and polished by a huge diversity of editors. Now that the olympics is winding up, you might like to consider helping with coverage of the Paralympics. As well as containing a whole host of notable topics, our coverage of Paralympics is vital to getting the Wikimedia Foundation officially recognised status for future Olypmic events (think editors and photographers trackside, poolside and waterside). Have a check to see whether the countries or sports you're interested in are represented; as well as wikipedia biographies and events pages by sport and country, we also have a pair of editors working as IPC credentialed reporters for wikinews who are in need of copy editors. The overall effort is being coordinated through the Paralympics Task Force. Stuartyeates (talk) 02:22, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

How's that look for advertising? Feel free to edit it, I'll cut and paste into a template for subst'ing before using on a large scale. Stuartyeates (talk) 02:22, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

It's great that you're doing outreach to engage editors who contributed to content about the Olympics for the Paralympics project. I actually haven't edited anything Olympics related (I'm actually not much of a sports person outside of a few things and I don't really edit about them). I do think it's very cool though!! SarahStierch (talk) 03:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I apologise, that was meant for the talk page of another editor. Entirely lack of attention (and maybe lack of sleep) on my part. It's some draft text we're working on to recriut Wikipedia:WikiProject Olympics editors to Wikipedia:WikiProject Olympics/Paralympics. Stuartyeates (talk) 07:41, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Help Project newsletter : Issue 3

The Help Project Newsletter
Issue III - August 2012

Project news summary

Final results and conclusions from the help pages survey were released.
The wub gave a presentation at Wikimania 2012 about help pages, and the slides are now on Commons.
A discussion is taking place about the purpose and future of the venerable Community portal.
New designs for tutorial pages have been proposed, comment from project members is welcome.

From the editor

Welcome to the (slightly delayed) third issue of the Help Project newsletter.

The past month has once again been a busy one for my fellowship. The full results and conclusions from the extensive user survey on help pages are now available, and make interesting reading. These do confirm a number of our suspicions about Wikipedia help, and suggest that the current plan for the remainder of the fellowship is a sound approach.

Also last month I was fortunate enough to attend Wikimania 2012 in Washington DC, where I gave a presentation about help pages and the aforementioned survey results. You can find the slides from this on Commons. Wikimania was also a great opportunity for many discussions with staff and community members, and these brought up some interesting ideas which I hope to follow up on.

One of the things much discussed was the planned tutorial pages. I've been working on a new design for them which can be seen at User:The wub/sandbox/1, please let me know what you think (especially if you spot any bugs!).

Any comments or suggestions for future issues are welcome at Wikipedia:Help Project/Newsletter. If you don't wish to receive this newsletter on your talk page in future then just edit the participants page and add "no newsletter" next to your name.

the wub "?!" 13:25, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: July 2012

This Month in GLAM – Volume II, Issue VII, July 2012
Headlines
USA report: World Digital Library Wikipedian in Residence UK report: British Library update; UK representation at Wikimania 2012; brief news Spain report: Wikipedian in Residence for a whole town; Backstage Pass at National Art Museum of Catalonia Germany report: Wikipedian in Residence updates; WikiCon 2012; Hamburgmuseum workshop Italy report: July's case studies shed new light on African GLAMs Mexico report: Second editathon with Wikipedia Student Clubs; participation in Mexico City's Creative Commons Film Festival; private art gallery donates 650+ images Africa report: A month in Africa's GLAMs Wikimania report: Wikimania gets GLAMorous Open Access report: Open Access at Wikimania; Year 2 of Wikimedian in Residence on Open Science; Open Access Media Importer tested; WikiProject Medicine goes publishing Calendar: August's GLAM events
Read this edition in full • Single-page
To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

Unsubscribe · Global message delivery 17:22, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Cornelia Butler

Hi Sarah - I thought this article on a contemporary museum curator might interest you, and there may be enough info available to quality it for a DYK nom. If you have the time/inclination, please jump in. Thanks! --Rosiestep (talk) 19:37, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

RTG Bond comments / thanks / help (maybe)

I'm a Wiki-newbie, so I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to respond to your edits to my proposed article. I figure if it's the wrong place, you can just delete it (or leave it around as a humorous gesture). I read you comment on my article "RTG Bond" and you are 100% correct -- the subject of the article does not meet notability requirements, yet. This is a new financial instrument, derivative of covered bonds and similar to a GIA, issued in 1999 and of which there is little on line (see Investors Guaranty Fund; Conseco; Moody's; Lazard Freres). At this time there are no secondary sources relating to the RTG, and until it's picked up by the financial press, there may not be any secondary coverage. To the extent that too much in the derivative markets in finance is shielded from the press, especially new products, my thought was to bring this product to the light of Wikipedia now rather than after the fact. Your call. If the article requires notability, which is both understandable and desirable, can I keep it in my sandbox until it receives notability and resubmit it then? In the future, my intention is to ferret out other new and esoteric financial instruments and write about them. Thanks for your editing and I look forward to your response.Wiki4robw (talk) 20:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi there, and we appreciate your contributions - new or not! Yes, if the subject isn't notable (yet) then it can't have its own article. I'd just sit on the article and focus on notable subjects that need improvement (especially in the financial sector on wikipedia!). If you do need additional help, you can always drop by the Teahouse, too! 20:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Teahouse

We need to figure how to give the Teahouse a more prominent position on the front page of WP:WER. There are a great number of people who are focused on helping new users as a part of Editor Retention, and this will benefit both the new user that stumbles across our Project, as well as hopefully attract new volunteers to help out at the Teahouse. For that matter, an update every week or so, if anything changes or there is a need at the Teahouse, would be very appropriate to post at WER. There are also people at WER who aren't interested in volunteering daily, but do coding, graphics or can offer any other support to help. I'm hoping to have WER as the clearinghouse for helping a great many projects that focus on retention, and anything we can do to raise awareness across the two projects will benefit everyone. Our page and talk page are at your disposal, feel free, be bold. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:07, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Dennis! This is great. I'll share this with the Teahouse folks at Wikipedia talk:Teahouse/Host lounge. danke :) SarahStierch (talk) 21:25, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Reply to your message about Tea House

Hi Sarah, this is in reply to your message to me about the Tea House a few days ago. I usually reply sooner but I've been travelling and dealing with some family stuff recently. BTW, let me know if this isn't the right way to reply to such messages, I thought it made more sense than posting a reply on my talk page but I'm still very much a newbie so appreciate all possible guidance. With that in mind sorry I replied to a few posts in the teahouse without first reading the appropriate protocol. I actually was just lurking, with no intention to reply, as a newbie some of the questions were relevant to me and it just gave me more of a feel for Wikipedia to watch some of the traffic. I forgot to take into account how much effort it is for me to curtail my big mouth when I know something and I saw a couple of questions that I just couldn't help diving into. I think I'll turn down your offer to officially support the tea house for now. Now that I'm home what I really want to put all my Wiki energy into is finishing up a few articles I've been editing and resubmitting them for evaluation. I wanted to hold off until I got home because for serious editing I like using my desktop and also there were some references I wanted to check here before I finalized and resubmitted the pages. But I do promise that if I do reply to any more tea house questions I will first read and then follow the appropriate guidelines. I assume its still OK to do that even if I'm not officially a host, let me know if its not. :) Mdebellis (talk) 21:46, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Mdebellis! Thanks for stopping by and taking my post with such grace. I hope you're traveling and family stuff is going okay. I'm glad you want to help - and yes, feel free to do so when you see fit even without being an "official" host. You might want to be one someday, when time and interest permits. Totally participate, and thanks for taking our "method to the madness" into consideration. I'm glad you are here, helping out new contributors and helping to build the world's largest free encyclopedia :) SarahStierch (talk) 21:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for inviting me

For this sarah, thanks for the invitation.

Sorry for the late thanks

Hello! Missvain, you are invited to the Teahouse, a forum on Wikipedia for new editors to ask questions about editing Wikipedia, and get support from peers and experienced editors. Please join us!

I, and the rest of the hosts, would be more than happy to answer any questions you have! VampireProject23 (talk) 20:54, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Q&A: speedy dele(ta)tion

Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions#Speedy deletation ~ since you deleted it, i thought you might like to take a look. benzband (talk) 15:31, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

state_iso

Hi Sarah, for the WLM mobile app I added the state iso code to most NRHP lists. Do you think you can help finish Category:National Register of Historic Places lists in the National Park Service? You probably know your states much better than I do. sample edit. Thank you, Multichill (talk) 21:17, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Done SarahStierch (talk) 04:37, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Question: How do you want to handle parks that overlap counties? These are the one's that fall into two counties (which you can discover by visiting the wiki page for the park itself and by viewing the wikitext and seeing the county in each entry):

Can you list multiple such as |state_iso=us-wi|county=Blah County, Montana|Whatever County, Montana?

And these are located in multiple states:

(I'm NOT DONE YET! :D) SarahStierch (talk) 03:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

And this one has a template that isn't like the others, not sure where to place the ISO data:

National Register of Historic Places in Yosemite National Park

Not to mention National Register of Historic Places listings in Yellowstone National Park, and there'll be problems with Glacier, Rocky Mountain, Yosemite and so on. I derived that list format from the county lists, obviously, but some aspects may not lend themselves to the same methods used for the county lists. Acroterion (talk) 03:34, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm actually not done with the list :) Thanks for adding this one! SarahStierch (talk) 03:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Sarah, to answer your question. The header template serves as a default for all the new row templates. So for example if you set header with state_iso=us-bla, all the next row template entries will have that. You can also set the fields in the row templates so if you have multiple states you'll just have to do it per row (just as with the county). Thanks for helping out here! We're using it in the mobile backend right now :-) Multichill (talk) 19:41, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Dear Sarah,

Thank you very much for reviewing my article on Kento Masuda! I would be very grateful about any additional hints on how to improve it and where to get reliable sources for an artist article as I am very new to Wiki editing.

Thank you so much in advance and thanks for reading it!

Cheers,

Olga — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugoro (talk • contribs) 13:30, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

SAI Question

Hello Sarah, thanks for your assistance. I am currently developing a page on the Sociology Association of Ireland, and as far as I can ascertain, have followed the reviewer's advice. Have I done enough to have the page published? Thanks, Liam Liamled (talk) 20:16, 9 August 2012 (UTC) Liamled (talk) 20:18, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Interview

Hi Sarah! It looks like we're doing the same interview tomorrow (or possibly today your time). It will be nice to put a voice to the text. although I guess this means that you'll get to say all the nice Teahouse things. :) - Bilby (talk) 07:35, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Whoa! That is awesome :) How cool! And yes, it'll be tonight my time. Talk to you later :) SarahStierch (talk) 17:00, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

That was interesting. Sorry for having to field a Teahouse question. Hopefully I sounded positive, if nothing else. - Bilby (talk) 03:16, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Listening to you both on ABC Radio National right now.--Shirt58 (talk) 09:19, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia Takes San Francisco

Hi Sarah! I'd like to encourage you to start an SF page with Wikipedia:Wikipedia Takes America#Event page wizard. Or we can do it at the regular SF meetup page if you like.--Pharos (talk) 12:51, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Article on Clara H. Hasse

My two cents, for what it's worth... Just heard parts of a re-broadcast of your interview with Jian Ghomeshi of CBC's Q radio show. I must say I agree fully with your views on the subject of expanding content on women in science (although I would like to change that to "in all areas of endeavor") and in creating a space of welcome for all editors.

I sometimes think that Wikipedia editors, in working within the WP paradigm, lose their bearings and drift into shoal waters on the issues of notability and on quantity of article content. I've seen some sparring being done in reference to other articles on WP and it strikes me that such challenges often come up because one editor, having no familiarity with the subject of an article, challenges it without really trying to apply some critical thought to the action he/she is taking. Sure, some articles are very short. They are "quantitiy challenged." Does that necessarily mean that they are stubs in need of expansion or deletion? Some articles are a bit "short" of a variety of cites and external links. Does that mean they are about people/things/events which are not notable? I'm not willing to answer in the affirmative to either of these questions. I'm not sure that there are any bright lines we can rely on. There's a tremendous amount of history out there. Much of it, if written about here or elsewhere, would result in articles which would fall into one or both of these categories. Do we ignore that history and allow it to dissolve into the mist? Or do we recognize it by recording it and saving it for others to use to inform themselves and others? I think there is much room for reasoned consideration here. NorthCoastReader (talk) 02:18, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Upload Folger Library images?

I left a message on Kaldari's talk page but haven't received any response. Can you tell me the details on this? Tom Reedy (talk) 16:31, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not sure. I was just pinging people on behalf of Kaldari to get the word out. I pinged him, so hopefully we'll hear from him today! Thanks for the interest, I wish I knew more :) SarahStierch (talk) 17:28, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Capitalization in the titles of art movements

Sarah, I have a question (and to be honest I don't want to start some giant kerfuffle wherein many rants are required by asking someone/somewhere else).

I am wondering (and not seeing a discussion), about the capitalization of Abstract impressionism (sic) and other selected movements. The pages on title format and the WP manual of style regarding art movements seem to agree with the general norm proposed by [this Association of Art Editor's Style Guide] and seen in the dictionaries I've surveyed. At the very least one might argue for choosing a style and sticking with it.

There is not really an agreement on say this list of 19th and 20th century art movements and inconsistency like American Impressionism versus American realism which I don't understand, along with the inconsistencies seemingly within the same document like Abstract expressionism and like this essay on Social realism by James G. Todd jr found while I was looking for outside evidence. It is easy to fall into 'holy crap this is so overwhelming' but I already started writing this so what the heck.

Abstract impressionism looks just plain wrong to me, (less so now because I imagine reading an essay full of capitalized movements and it is a horror), though I can accept being wrong and eventually absorbing the weirdness ;). If I've missed some large overall discussion, please point me to it, thanks! (You're the best!) heather walls (talk) 18:01, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Done SarahStierch (talk) 16:13, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

AFCH

Hi Sarah! Do you know if it's possible to have the Teahouse Invitation button ticked by default when reviewing submissions to AfC using the AFCH Script? Thanks, Electric Catfish 16:10, 12 August 2012 (UTC).

Hi! I don't know. I don't even think it's working right now (at least, for me, when I tick the box the person isn't getting an invite, and they haven't been previously invited). I will ping Nathan. SarahStierch (talk) 16:12, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Sarah! Electric Catfish 16:14, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Mabdul was writing a configuration feature that would have included a feature to keep the Teahouse box checked, but it was postponed in favor of fixing serious bugs with the redirect gadget. Mabdul is currently on wikibreak because he just got a new job IRL, but I'll try to hack it and figure out how to add this feature in a patch ASAP. I don't know about the error, I'll check that too. Thanks, Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 22:48, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Please see

Please see the discussion at Template talk:NRHP row#Edit war

Smallbones (talk) 22:10, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

New users needing help and welcoming

I cannot imagine someone who needs help and needs welcomed more than an editor who thinks everyone at Wikipedia is a jerk or smartass. This was the perfect opportunity to turn the tables on someone by being nice. And it seems that your response contradicted what the page was attempting to do, deal with frustrated new users. "Dear new editors, no question is too basic for our Q&A board. If you need help, just press the button below!" Eau (talk) 23:55, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi EauOo. I understand why you would feel that way - trust me! I've dealt with my fair share of jerks on Wikipedia, and lord knows I hate having to be that person sometimes who cleans up messes and tries to maintain the peace and perhaps does things that come off jerky. There are actually some investigation issues with that user being a potential sockpuppet, and their own contributions are being questioned in regards to good faith. I promise you, I moved that question in good faith and after past discussions (extensively) with hosts at the Teahouse about suspicious or overly dramatic questions such as this to be resolved on the talk page. I do hope you understand, I'd rather us be able to work with that editor on their talk page especially if the concerns are very serious about civility, then to have a major mess at the Teahouse. Imagine being a new editor and seeing "Why are people at wikipedia such jerkwads?" being plastered over the friendliest help space on Wiki? :) I do hope this helps a bit to clarify, and I really appreciate your passion and energy in seeing that new editors are welcomed. I encourage you to lend a hand at the Teahouse, of course! Thank you. SarahStierch (talk) 00:01, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't see any templates on the page accusing this user of being a sock puppet.

And, no; false civility maintained by removing evidence of upset users makes me feel less welcome than seeing "Why are people at Wikipedia such jerkwads?" I see evidence of incivility all over Wikipedia; dealing in a superior, not cutting way with it, is something that would really make me feel welcome, as if there were a dedicated and competent cadre of editors attempting to combat the incivility that seems to rule Wikipedia. Eau (talk) 00:07, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

PS I was looking forward to how seasoned editors would respond to this user at the Teahouse, you know. Eau (talk) 00:08, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I think it is a generally good idea to remove obviously inflamatory posts from the Teahouse. Sarah did the right thing in moving it to the editor's talk page where the issue could still be addressed. The editor was not "kicked from the teahouse". Ryan Vesey 00:09, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm a bit curious about the editor. They're already using Twinkle and their edits aren't exactly new editor types. At the same time, the edits I've reviewed appear productive. Maybe this was once an IP editor. Ryan Vesey 00:09, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. I asked at their talk page out of curiosity. I'm impressed with what they've done so far. But, I have had a few editors bring it to my attention, so it's always okay to ask, too! SarahStierch (talk) 00:13, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Investigating if someone is a sock doesn't always start with a template :) It looks like we will have to agree to disagree here. I'm sorry you've ran into some pretty terrible experiences here. I'm glad you are contributing, and that you feel so passionate about making this a great experience for everyone. Thanks for coming by my talk page and sharing your thoughts! SarahStierch (talk) 00:12, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

and in reply to your "p.s." you seem to be engaged in the conversation on their talk page. Sometimes it's a bit more calming to handle it in one's own space than in such a public space like the Teahouse - I'd hate for a more messier situation to erupt there (the Teahouse has almost 200 watchers) then at the new editors talk page (which has little to no watchers). In the past, we've noticed it's often easier and calmer to handle extreme cases on talk pages than at the Teahouse. Thanks again for coming by! SarahStierch (talk) 00:12, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

My Preferences comes with a list of tools, including Twinkle. When I first made my account, the walk-through included a suggestion about the gadgets available to editors, and I turned many on and off. Why would Twinkle raise curiosity? Eau (talk) 00:14, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I guess it's part of me being an old timer (around here, I'm really only 19). You used to have to create a java script page and install Twinkle as a script. It required experience even to know it existed. I sometimes forget how easy they've made it. Ryan Vesey 00:16, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, what Ryan said (except I'm a bit older :) Ok, much older! ha!!) and even if you're comfortable fiddling with those things, experience and observation has shown me that most new users aren't. So I'm always impressed with the new editors who do use Twinkle right off the bat - it's rarer than you'd think! SarahStierch (talk) 00:17, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I tend to install all such gadgets when using new sites, as I am a programmer. Tech savvy runs a vast range; people with tech savvy get on a site and seek out all of the gadgets, as I did; others with limited tech savvy may never seek out such tools. I also write blogs, and Wikipedia has been around long, so I know that I can expect a large suite of editing convenience tools. Eau (talk) 00:24, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Also, I point out that Twinkle does things that some new users I come across seem to like: welcoming other new users and dealing with vandalism. I think it would be one of the more popular new user tools. And you just have to check a book to install it. Eau (talk) 00:29, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Punkreas (2nd nomination)

Relisted? When the same nominator admitted his concerns were based on a failed understanding of our notability guidelines? Cavarrone (talk) 08:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Cavarrone! Thank you so much for coming by my talk page. I have kept the article. Happy now? :) SarahStierch (talk) 16:56, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Sure, well done! Regards, Cavarrone (talk) 17:04, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

The Scissor Fits and The Oregon Song

Hi SarahStierch :). I recently came across these two articles, The Scissor Fits and The Oregon Song and have found them to barely meet the Wikipedia stub requirements, although not fully. Both the articles have been on Wikipedia for almost 4 years since the end of 2008, but hardly any major article development or improvement has been done in both the articles. Also both the articles do not have any reliable sources and references, none so far. I am not sure if theses articles should be tagged for deletion. As you are an experienced editor, i have requested your help for article building, development and improvement if it is possible. I have also posted about this issue on Wikipedia:Notability/Noticeboard. Regards! TheGeneralUser (talk) 12:46, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi TheGeneralUser! Thanks for coming by! I have went ahead and speedy deleted The Oregon Song under A9. The other one, the band, I'll just leave it with the PROD tag. Keep me posted if you need anything else :) Thanks for being a vigilant Wikpiedian! How did you stumble across those two articles? SarahStierch (talk) 17:10, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Hey Sarah! Thanks for your quick reply. Looks like these articles can't be improved anyways and might eventually get deleted as one already has. And thanks a lot for your nice compliment

. As i frequently patrol and monitor Recent Changes, New Pages, etc. so did i stumble across these two articles thanks to Special:Random!. Thank you for your help! TheGeneralUser (talk) 09:33, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

George Wells, Neighbor. written by Kandi Roche

Your dismissal of a story that was so very real and caring is inappropriate. George and Ruthie were a very good friends to Jim & myself for the years we all lived at Park Newport, Newport Beach, Ca. Your inappropriate conduct of a beautiful memory is inexcusable. Obviously you are not aware of social standards in Newport Beach, Ca nor do you know anything about George. In the history books that I write, I like to give a positive "human" story of individual's lives as well as their statistical lives.. We adored George and Ruthie for their kindliness in the neighborhood. 74.37.220.102 (talk) 19:35, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Your contribution to my talk page

if there is something you wish to tell me, please have the courtesy to do so in our common language. I don't much understand wikispeak.Delahays (talk) 20:16, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi! I'm a bit confused on what wikispeak I used. I wanted to invite you to the Teahouse, which is a super friendly help space that generally avoids things like wikispeak. I took a look at my invite and I don't think it was too jargon filled. Sorry if it was frustrating! I do hope you will visit the Teahouse if you need help :) SarahStierch (talk) 21:47, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Question regarding WikiProject African diaspora

Hi. I have recently gone about hither and yon tagging articles for the Africa and African diaspora WikiProjects based on the subjects of those articles having significant content, either separate articles or subarticles, in the Appiah/Gates "Africana" encyclopedia. A question has recently been raised regarding the legitimacy of such tagging on some articles. I have raised a question relating to the scope of the project as it now stands, which I do not see clearly indicated on the Project page itself, on the project talk page, and would welcome any and all responses from members. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 22:23, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Deleted category

Hi, Sarah. Thanks for speedy deleting that Thanhouser Company actors category. As I noted when I put the speedy tag on it, I would have deleted it myself, except I want a bot to run to remove the category from all the articles in it, and I don't know/remember the protocol for emptying a category. It looks to me like you don't know either, as the category is still populated... Or did you find the right person to notify to get it cleaned out? --Orlady (talk) 23:20, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi! I actually have no clue who we notify, so I just did it by hand. LOL. Is there a bot that does that type of thing? I guess we both have a bit of research to do :) SarahStierch (talk) 23:29, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Argh -- that was a lot of categories to process! When a category is moved or deleted at WP:CFD, an automated process is run to fix the categorization of the elements in the category. Once upon a time, I figured out how that process worked, but I've forgotten, and I couldn't find the instructions for it. --Orlady (talk) 23:33, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

WWC

Hi Sarah, thanks for the invite to the WWC. I've signed up since i share a lot in common with the goals of the project and my areas of expertise are mostly content creation and expansion with LGBTQ issues. This gives me a bit of a headstart already with Birmingham Gay Village coming along nicely and also User:Jenova20/Homophobia in the media & the smaller twin User:Jenova20/Transphobia in the media. Eventually all 3 will be up in article space and hopefully to a GA rank (but we'll see). I've increased my presence on Wikipedia month on month and i plan to continue doing so and i think i can do some pretty good work for the WWC besides the 3 articles i have in the pipeline. Thanks again for the invite! Have a nice day/evening ツ Jenova 20 ^(email) 23:21, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

The Lizzie Bennet Diaries

Hey, just letting you know that I've created a sub-stub for The Lizzie Bennet Diaries, which you declined at AfC a few months ago. I don't really know much about AfC or about Austen-parodying vlogs, but I think it passes WP:GNG. Your input's welcome. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 00:20, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Explain?

Please explain your edits on my talk page, like removing the section header, replacing it with a welcome template, and then reposting another template. 71.146.4.142 (talk) 04:46, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi! I accidentally dropped off the wrong template regarding articles that were declined. You told me you didn't have an article declined, so I replaced the Teahouse template with a more general Teahouse invitation :) SarahStierch (talk) 04:47, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

CSD declined

Hi Sarah. I'm just letting you know that I have declined your CSD WP:A7 at Future Retro 777. Products do not fall into this category. Please consider another category that may be relevant, or PRODing with a rationale that explains the policy. Thanks, and happy editing! Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:20, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Prod concern parameter

1. Add the {{subst:Proposed deletion|concern=reason for proposed deletion}} to the top of the main article page to nominate the article, and provide a clear and non-generic reason.

Hi Sarah, I saw this article that you put a template on. I was wondering if you PRODed it because it was, or may have been copied from another site, however you forgot to fill in the reason or concern parameter. I added the copypaste template, as I am familiar with Wikipedia's long standing problems with potential copyright violations. I checked the site for Wiki mirror , and, it does not appear to be one. Eau (talk) 08:19, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Gender gap

Where can I find the most recent information on the gender gap? I'm drafting a letter to the editor (or possibly a full blown editorial) for my school's newspaper to encourage women to edit, but I'd like current facts. Ryan Vesey 00:29, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Ryan. What kind of information? Two years in a row: an average of 9% of contributors, over all languages, on Wikipedia are women. The dial has not moved, yet. The Teahouse was developed to retain not only new editors, but women editors - and with an activity rate of 28% women and 33% retention overall it's working we think - but it hasn't scaled enough to move the dial (it'll need to be localized in other languages, too). You can also find my newest project here. Let me know if there is something specific, but, that's really that! If you want to know why women don't edit...the majority of women surveyed and that I have met, around the world, state that time is the biggest factor. Hope this helps a bit! Let me know if I ca do anything for your letter! Great news. I wish the WWC pilot was launched but it won't be until early October. SarahStierch (talk) 00:33, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, that should certainly be enough to get me started. I wanted to be sure that women still made up less than 10% of editors. I thought so, but wasn't positive. I'll send you a copy of the letter for some thoughts when I finish it and before I send it to the newspaper. It will be a couple of weeks to a month before I do so. On another note, I contacted NPR about getting you on the air, but the response I received makes it seem like a human never actually read the message I sent. Can you think of a specific show that would be most appropriate? Possibly Talk of the Nation? Maybe I'll send it directly to that show. Ryan Vesey 00:38, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Oh, one thing: on English Wikipedia (We have the highest ratio of women) it's 13%, but overall it's 9% over languages. I'm happy to take a look at your proof before sending it and share my thoughts. I'm flattered about NPR, ha! It'd be one of my life dreams, I have to admit...:) I'm so grateful for your energy and enthusiasm about engaging women to participate. You'll have to lend a hand at WWC!! SarahStierch (talk) 00:40, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Before I even saw the WCC thing, I was wondering what we can do to make them click the button. It may have been you who said this, but I think it was a WMF member. She said that one of hardest problems that women have with editing is that they don't want to modify "someone else's work". Men, on the other hand, don't have that aspect as often. Ryan Vesey 00:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

That might have been Sue Gardner. Yes, that may be one reason - we are different, despite how many people may disagree. Women are also more prone to wanting to participate based on invitation, unlike men (party crashers ;) ) SarahStierch (talk) 00:47, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Have you seen this? Ryan Vesey 00:54, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I did an interview for it with the writer at Wikimania. I did an interview today with someone from the Independent (UK) about the gender gap - it'll be online tomorrow. So that might have some stuff for you too. As I always say "How can you write the sum of all the world's knowledge when only half of the those who retain that knowledge are writing it?" :) SarahStierch (talk) 00:58, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Just read the Independent article, very interesting and enlightening. Hats off. FruitMonkey (talk) 12:04, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Wired article

Hi. Sorry to take so long to respond. I was away for a bit. Thanks for telling me about the Wired article. I shared the link with a few people who found it interesting. Hoping I can get pictures of myself and HAwkeye7 in the press centre with Wikimedia kit for the blog to help share what we are doing, and maybe an interview with some one who can explain why the project has been so important in terms of both disability awareness and women's issues. They have been tremendously helpful. (The Australian Paralympic Committee donated images of each Australian athlete at the Games and they can be found on articles for each competitor.) The amount of prep work has been fantastically supported by several Wikipedians, by Wikinewsies (we crashed their off wiki project space doing test on reporting software) which included at least one reviewer doing the equivalent of 8 GA reviews in 3.5 days, the Australian Paralympic Committee, the University of Queensland, the University of Canberra, Wikimedia Australia and others. Lots of fun. (And it helped me get a postdoc position doing research related to women's sport and Wikipedia.) Anyway, yeah. thanks for the comment. Link was useful. Olympics were awesome and lots of women were featured on the front page of Wikipedia during it, with I think way more female competitors than men at DYK. --LauraHale (talk) 21:03, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Laura. First, congratulations about your post-doc position - that is awesome and too perfect for you :) Great news! I was following the sports coverage (well, anything on the front page, at least) to the best of my ability, and I did notice the large amount of women covered in the DYK section, which is awesome. You should do a estimated count of how many hits all of those DYK's had on them eyes wise versus the male DYK's. It'd be interesting to know what the stats are (good or bad, preferably better than the guys ;)). You should also think about getting a video camera, or a camera that can shoot video, and upload videos of women's sports. I like seeing videos documenting things and it'd be pretty cool to see videos of say netball or lacrosse or whatever - it'd be cool to have videos of women playing sports to represent the sports in general (i.e. just the generic basketball page, or whatever) and specific women's sports too. I do have a new project coming up soon and I will surely be reaching out to document your work with women in sports. I'll ping you when the time is right! SarahStierch (talk) 21:52, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Estimate will possibly happen but not until after the Paralympics. A lot of those one to one kind of comparisons don't work. The Poms were hosts and their athletes got a lot more views than say the Australians. I know some of the numbers were not very impressive for non-medalists. The two Saudi women were both DYKs during the Olympics and I don't think either had outstanding views. (On the other hand, some articles had huge numbers of views. Lauren Jackson had huge views the day she was announced as a flag bearer and her article was referenced on Twitter.) Paralympic stuff would be nice to see on the WMF blog. I'm reasonably confident Wikimedia will be at the 2016 Summer Olympics as I can probably pull it off. (First, the Commonwealth Games, the Youth Olympics, and 2014 Winter Paralympics.) Going to try to blog about cover the Paralympic for WMF projects as I get the time, but some of that easier to do before the Games as I might be smashed for time when I get to London. Preparing for the London Paralympics as a member of the press, 2012 London Paralympic reporting preparations continue and 2012 Summer Paralympic Reporting Tools are three I've done so far. --LauraHale (talk) 02:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Joel Okuyo Atiku

Hey Sarah, I removed the PROD from that page due to the existence of sources in the external links section. That is enough to fulfill the BLP PROD requirements. I added a no footnotes tag. Ryan Vesey 12:06, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

On another note, you should remember to check the "mark this page as reviewed" box when you tag the articles. Ryan Vesey 14:34, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Ok Ryan! I don't think having an external link counts as having a source, but, I get it - BLP's are a whole nother species :) Still learning the ropes.. I appreciate any friendly help I can get! SarahStierch (talk) 16:05, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I've felt in the past that a BLP should require at least one in-text citation; however Wikipedia:Proposed deletion of biographies of living people clearly states "To place a BLPPROD tag, the process requires that the article contain no sources in any form (as references, external links, etc.), which support any statements made about the person in the biography". Interestingly, it continues with "Please note that this is a different criterion than is used for sources added after the placement of the tag" but there is never anything that labels what the "new criterion" is so we default to the first one in that if there is a source of any form that supports any aspect of the article the tag should be removed. We could always start discussion, I don't think it would hurt to require an in-text citation, at least for removal. On another note, you are listed as one of the top New Page Patrollers, congratulations! Ryan Vesey 04:41, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

No, this is not a talkback template. I don't use the darn things. But from watching your talk page, I think you might, so here is my substitution. Also, kittens. Because kittens are always a good idea. KillerChihuahua^?!? 19:24, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Greetings!

Sorry, it's true I've done mostly minor edits before :) I was wondering what in particular about my edit of Valerie Solanas was problematic - formatting, the source, changing what could be considered something under dispute instead of explicitly detailing the dispute, etc.

Further - I had no intention of committing any sort of vandalism or activism or whatever you might have thought, my edit was an earnest attempt to correct what I saw as an error, which while appended by a footnote, seemed of unclear specificity and dubious origin.

Will not re-edit the page until I hear back from you, but if your goal in reversing my edit was simply to enforce the accuracy of the information in this encyclopedia, I respectfully ask that you reconsider it.

Thanks CptnHadock (talk) 23:37, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi CptnHadock. I apologize - I jumped the gun with this! I checked out the source - that's great. Krassner surely knows what happened best, right? :) I've reverted my edit and replaced it with yours! I am so so sorry! (And that's the first time in my life I've ever used High Times as a source, ha!). One tip: make sure you write an edit summary before you hit save - it makes things (especially as you are a new editor and still don't have a user page) things easier for everyone. I.e. "Replacing reference with a more reliable one." :) I'm delighted you are here, thank you for stopping by and bringing this up with me, and again I apologize. Really happy to see an article I care so much about improved upon. SarahStierch (talk) 23:43, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Alan Burns (author)

Hi Sarah. I'm rather puzzled why you tagged Alan Burns (author) for notability. He was a moderately prominent British writer of the 1960s. He does have a listing in the authoritative "Contemporary Novelists" pub. St. James Press, and several other reputable reference guides; e.g. British Novelists since 1960 edited by Jay L. Halio, Detroit, Gale, 1983. I admit the article needs extensive work, though it's on a long-list of projects I intend to work on in the coming months. Fanthrillers (talk) 00:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Invitation

	You're invited to my user page!
	Long time, no see Sarah! Anyway, you've just been Jayemdrolled! Just kidding! You've been invited to see some of my cars in the 'Pics For Other Users' section of my user page! Tell me what you think about it after you're done! Jayemd (talk) 03:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Sumitomo (SHI) Demag

Hay, why did you delete this new site? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumitomo Demag (talk • contribs) 07:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi there. Your site and many others you have created are copyright violations of specific websites. We have to have copyright free material on Wikipedia. Sorry! Feel free to stop by the Teahouse if you have other concerns, but yes, alas, no copyrighted information is allowed on Wikipedia. SarahStierch (talk) 07:28, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm from the company Sumitomo (SHI) Demag so we have the copyright on this text! And the same text in german is on the german wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumitomo Demag (talk • contribs) 07:33, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Happy Hoes

You closed the AfD on Happy Hoes as a merge to Happy Hoes. :-) --OpenFuture (talk) 07:35, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Oh for godsake. That's what I get for doing this late at night. ACK. Thanks :) (And still new to the mop ;) ) SarahStierch (talk) 07:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Closing AfDs and deleting redirects

Congratulations on your new mop! 217/0/2 must be something like a record for support - Jbmurray at 161/1/2 is about the best I remember seeing before.

A couple of tips:

For closing AfDs, there is a brilliant script, User:Mr.Z-man/closeAFD.js, which does all the clerical work for you.

When you delete a page, it's worth clicking "What links here" under "Toolbox" on the left, which may show tidying-up that needs to be done, such as entries which are now redlinks which you may want to consider removing from lists and DAB pages. In particular, it will show incoming redirects which should be deleted. List of politicians of Croatian ancestry had four. I see that was an AfD deletion, which is what prompted me to come here and tell you about Mr Z-man's script,which among its other facilities provides a check-box "Delete redirects".

Don't hesitate to ask for advice, if you need any. When I became an admin, at first it seemed a bit lonely; I'm not sure quite what sort of hand-holding I had expected, but in practice, in the best janitorial tradition, you are just handed a mop and left to get on with it.

Regards, JohnCD (talk) 16:30, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks John for the tips and the help. It means a lot :) Where do I install the script? I know there are a few different places I have scripts installed, so input on that would rock. Thank you so much!! And yes - it is overwhelming (And the documentation is overwhelming!). SarahStierch (talk) 05:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

The best place would be at User:SarahStierch/common.js That way, it is installed no matter what skin you are using. Otherwise, you would install it in whichever .js page coincides with a specific skin. If you are currently using vector, you would install it in User:SarahStierch/vector.js, if you are using monobook you would install it in User:SarahStierch/monobook.js. Common.js is nice because you never have to change anything. Ryan Vesey 05:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I noticed you copied and pasted the entire script into your common.js page. You might want to include it by adding

importScript('User:Mr.Z-man/closeAFD.js');

to your page instead. That way, any improvements that are made to the script would affect you as well. Ryan Vesey 16:47, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Gah, thanks. Fixed it. Now wonder if wasn't working :) (I'm not that savvy with scripts, etc.) SarahStierch (talk) 16:49, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

They're very picky. I use a script that allows me to move pages (without using that terrible dropdown menu) and I couldn't get it to work for the longest time. Finally someone told me that I wrote importscript rather than importScript (notice the capitalized S) and changing that made it work. I've tried to modify scripts before as well and created a whole lot of nuthin. Ryan Vesey 16:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thought I'd send you some love so you know my heart is in the right place. My autism makes it difficult for me to get the social tone right in text so forgive me if I sounded like a sod. I have read through your research papers. First of all, sorry for my ignorance. Now that I have learned about your study. I admire that you put in so much effort to record everything. I think we should focus on getting the quality rather than quantity. Many problems related to gender issues on Wikipedia has deeper root in the society, so we just have to keep on trying! :D All my heart!

RexRowan Talk 19:19, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

You rock Rex, and no you didn't come off like a sod :) Thanks for the kind words, and putting so much energy into learning about this. I look forward to having you be a part of this! SarahStierch (talk) 16:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Carole Waugh AFD

Hi, I'm sure it's enough of a pain closing AFDs without having nominators come and query/complain about the decision but could you elaborate a bit on your simple "Keep" verdict here? I know there's a lot of words on the page, but actually very few people participated in the discussion. Most of them did "vote" for a Keep, but of course that's not a reason for the decision to go that way, especially when few of them in turn gave much of a reason other than that "it might be notable in the future" - but equally the amount of verbiage there indicates there are some policy/guideline issues at stake. This really is a run-of-the-mill murder case, which is neither front page news here nor of any obvious long-term significance, something that may not be immediately apparent to half the people passing by, or indeed to the person closing the AFD, however many cites to rolling media coverage can be rustled up. That the author of the piece, a couple of random editors passing by and also several now-familiar faces who, it would seem, appear at multiple crime AFDs want it retained is not surprising. N-HH talk/edits 07:31, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi there. You seemed to be the only editor who was severely concerned about the keep of the article. It looks like the majority of folks decided it should be kept. I also think Paul has a pretty good argument and really did impressive research work to prove his point. Of course, in the future, if you feel that the article remains unimportant or not worthy of encyclopedic coverage (which personally, I think it does, especially with the amount of content of similar nature we have, and articles that aren't encyclopedic that require more important attention) it can always be nominated again. Also, those folks do feel pretty strongly that it is encyclopedic - whether they are "random editors" or not (what defines someone who isn't random editor? Plenty of folks contribute to crime and non-crime articles and have a general sense of how encyclopedic and notability guidelines work) and as someone (being me) who works on subjects that are obscure in nature and are considered encyclopedic (yet still notable) by a smaller group of people and not the masses, still doesn't make it any less encyclopedic than more important articles. Thanks for stopping by, and I'm sorry that the situation didn't lean more towards what you were hoping! I hope you don't take this personal. And again, there is potential to re-review this in the future, if you so feel the need. SarahStierch (talk) 07:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't take it personally, just very confused and with a dislike for weak content here. It's not simply an obscure topic, it's a news story - and of marginal interest even as a news story. The AFD on the Tia Sharp case - which has had way, way more coverage and impact than this murder, and far more likely to be remembered in the UK in future - had far more contributors and was far more heavily contested, and closed simply as the less definitive "no consensus". That confirms the randomness of these processes. Indeed, the fact that the debate there attracted more attention, beyond one or two people who were probably always going to vote keep, shows that it is prima facie a more notable case. N-HH talk/edits 07:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

N-HH. I've said this elsewhere, but if you really feel strongly about this issue you should perhaps open a debate at the appropriate place. I guess you could start at WikiProject Crime. Then maybe we could establish some guidelines specific to articles on murder investigations. Let me know if you do decide to do this and I'll be happy to add my thoughts. Paul MacDermott (talk) 11:33, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

N-HH you are very close to WP:BLUDGEON. This is not about "winning an AfD discussion" it is about proving that an article subject is/is not notable. And by the looks of the Carole Waugh AfD a clear majority was of a Keep opinion. That you disagree with it are OK but that you are questioning the closing user and the Keep-sayers knowledge of the guidelines of notability or what ever you are doing seems a bit shady and a way to influence an AfD.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:43, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

A donut for you!

	The Donut of DOOM!
	I, Kaldari, hereby present SarahStierch with the Donut of DOOM for her continued perseverance in the California Historical Landmarks deathmarch. Kaldari (talk) 07:56, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

This is surely one of the best awards I have ever been given. I have a feeling I'm going to be undead undead after finishing this project. Mmmm doom donuts :) SarahStierch (talk) 00:05, 18 August 2012 (UTC)