User talk:Mandruss/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Rollback

Hi Mandruss/Archive 2. After reviewing your request for rollback, I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback:

• Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
• Rollback should be used to revert clear cases of vandalism only, and not good faith edits.
• Rollback should never be used to edit war.
• If abused, rollback rights can be revoked.
• Use common sense.

If you no longer want rollback, contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some more information on how to use rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback (even though you're not an admin). I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, but feel free to leave me a message on my talk page if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Thank you for helping to reduce vandalism. Happy editing! —Tom Morris (talk) 00:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Civility Barnstar
	For your hard work helping other contributors at the help desk. —Tom Morris (talk) 00:51, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-05

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent software changes

• You can now translate articles with the new ContentTranslation tool on several wikis. [1]

This week

• There are no software changes this week due to annual meetings. [2]

Future changes

• You can join a project to improve WikiProjects. [3]
• The Compact Personal Bar will be removed for now. It has a bug that breaks the tool to choose your language. It will come back when the bug is fixed. [4]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

16:08, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

ANI

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.100.51 (talk) 00:07, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

butting in

Re [5]; positive, intended to be helpful input is totally appropriate, and there's no need to apologize for not being an admin per WP:ANYUSER. NE Ent 11:56, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Wasn't sure. ―Mandruss ☎ 11:57, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Mustang

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Mustang. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated.

For tips, please see Wikipedia:Requests for comment § Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:03, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Imperial System

The term refers to the imperial system of the Second British Empire. It isn't used in the United States because we seceded from the First British Empire. Most Americans are not aware of the differences, but a British imperial gallon is larger than a US gallon, so that the conversion between metric and customary is different in the US than in Great Britain. As I mentioned, many Americans don't know that the imperial system is slightly different (and, with liquids, significantly different) from the US customary system. In any case, the real point is that the original poster was being clueless in edit-warring against consensus to enforce the metric system, when English Wikipedia has nuanced rules. (If he were in any Wikipedia other than English, he would be right about the use of metric.) As you know, my point is that the issue didn't have to do with imperial units at all. But we Americans were not part of the British Empire when the imperial system was enacted by Parliament. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:55, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: Thanks for the explanation. But trust me, such explanations are wasted on this individual. The dialogue on their talk page clearly shows that. It is one of the most extreme examples of WP:IDHT adult petulance I've seen in my time here. Either that or a very skilled troll. Either way, not worth our time. ―Mandruss ☎ 17:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Content on Help Desk

We don't discuss article content on the Help Desk, and I didn't think I was discussing content, but we do sometimes respond to comments about content. If he says any more, I will direct him to dispute resolution. It wasn't easy to respond because his English is so poor. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:44, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

It is more helpful to explain how you would like an article improved - I read that as implying that we might respond to the suggestion for improvement by editing the article. Otherwise why ask the question? ―Mandruss ☎ 23:53, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: - I think this question is worth discussing at WT:Help desk. I started a thread yesterday, but there has been no response. I think we need to be on the same page, even if I'm the one who needs to adjust. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:56, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

108.25.73.174

It seems this anon user lacks self-conscience and continues to make pointless edits to his own talk page like a child. If you're an admin, can you please take care of his childish demeanor? Thanks. 70.45.65.243 (talk) 15:42, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

@70.45.65.243: I'm not an admin. He's close to being worthy of WP:AIV, but not quite imo. Except for that one article, he's only done minor damage to our talk pages. I don't care what he does to his own talk page, the warnings are still in its history. ―Mandruss ☎ 15:48, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Florida 90

So can you tell me any similarities between TransAsia and Air Florida 90. Thanks JustPlaneEditing (talk) 12:51, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

@JustPlaneEditing: Not this talk, article talk. Per WP:BRD, your change is disputed and cannot be made without consensus. Please don't edit war. Thanks. ―Mandruss ☎ 12:53, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Dear Mandruss, with all respect, that's not exactly what WP:BRD says. Firstly, it's an optional way to resolve disputes, given that is an essay and not a policy. Secondly, the onus is not only on the editor; as the essay says: BRD is not a valid excuse for reverting good-faith efforts to improve a page simply because you don't like the changes. Don't invoke BRD as your reason for reverting someone else's work or for edit warring: instead, provide a reason that is based on policies, guidelines, or common sense. Happy to further discuss in the article's talk page, specifically with regards to your reverts to my recent good faith edit. Kind regards, DPdH (talk) 05:27, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

@DPdH: Well I guess different editors have different interpretations of BRD. Many of them don't like BRD at all, which is why it's still an essay instead of a guideline. It's unfortunate that the community can't agree on that, since it would eliminate an enormous number of conflicts exactly like this one. Literally thousands a day, I'm certain.

For my part, I choose to go with BRD, and I choose to go with the "This page in a nutshell" at the top of WP:BRD. The first revert is a very efficient way of challenging an edit, automatically notifying the other editor that you have challenged their edit, providing them a brief description of the reason for the challenge, and returning the article to the status quo until consensus is reached for the change. Mostly, the people who object are those whose adrenaline spikes whenever they get reverted, and that's because they don't understand the meaning of reverts and take them personally (I got the impression that's what you did, by your angry reaction).

I don't think we should clutter that content dispute thread with a discussion of proper editing procedure, but you're welcome to start a second thread if you think there is anything to be gained by that. ―Mandruss ☎ 05:42, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying your interpretation, which differs from mine. Please be sure that my responses are not driven by adrenaline, and certainly I didn't think that my response was "angry"; but a lot is missed in non face-to-face communication. Regards, DPdH (talk) 15:21, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Breaks layout

How does it break the layout? Alakzi (talk) 17:13, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Here's your version and mine.

• Which is more reader-useful right next to a description of the flight? A flight path map, or a map showing the departure and scheduled destination airports?
• I don't know about you, but for me your version pushes the External video box down into the Rescue and recovery section. ―Mandruss ☎ 17:19, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

The flight map shouldn't be separated from its source. This is a sketch on the basis of preliminary information released on 6 Feb. Layout issues can be ironed out. Alakzi (talk) 17:23, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome to copy this over to the article's talk page for feedback from other editors, if you'd like. Alakzi (talk) 17:26, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Editor of the Week

		Editor of the Week
		Your ongoing efforts to improve the encyclopedia have not gone unnoticed: You have been selected as Editor of the Week for your work on Wikipedia articles. Thank you for the great contributions! (courtesy of the Wikipedia Editor Retention Project)

User:Buster7 submitted the following nomination for Editor of the Week:

I nominate Editor Mandruss for the Editor of the Week Award. Signed up in May of 2013, he only became active in mid 2014 and has about 10000 edits under his belt with close to 38% in article space. He came to my talk recently and asked me to look into a "nit" situation he had uncovered. "Nits are my specialty", he claimed and I immediately started to look at his potential for the "Eddy" Award. When not working on articles, Mandruss can be found at the Help Desk, the Reference Desk and at the Teahouse. He fixes cite templates and references. All signs of a positive helpful editor. He is not immune to the calls of some controversial articles as is exhibited by his involvement at the article Shooting of Michael Brown. On his user page he says, "I am a middle-aged male who has nothing better to do than sit around editing Wikipedia articles. I like that about him.

You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week:

{{subst:Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Recipient user box}}

Mandruss

A furry mammal

Editor of the Week for the week beginning March 8, 2015

Mandruss's self-described interests include history, various sciences, aviation, humor, furry mammals, designing unreadable CAPTCHAs, and musing about the future of civilization.

Recognized for

making helpful suggestions and tips about editing to all that visit his talkpage.

Nomination page

Thanks again for your efforts! --L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 00:52, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

• Congratulations! Thank you for your contributions! MJ94 (talk) 03:19, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Seriously, I know you can do better than a loudmouth with a high edit count. But this is much appreciated, and the userbox is already installed at the bottom of my "Wikipedia" userboxes. You guys do good work for a noble cause. ―Mandruss ☎ 03:35, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

You deserve the Award. All editors that help other editors deserve the Award. But now I can ask you...."Did you know weeks ago that you were in line to get the award"???. . Buster Seven Talk 05:26, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@Buster7: I cannot tell a lie. Of course I did. I've been watching the WER pages ever since I contacted you on your talk page. I wasn't actually reading them all that much, but I didn't need to: my name popped up right there on my watchlist, in the section name part of my watchlist. But that's ok, it looks like it's pretty hard to be rejected after a nomination and a second, so I just got my surprise a few weeks earlier than intended. Thanks again. ―Mandruss ☎ 05:39, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Safety of electronic cigarettes

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Safety of electronic cigarettes. Legobot (talk) 00:03, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

2014 Ferguson unrest:

Greetings, just a comment on the handgun used in the March 2015 officer shooting as I noticed the caliber link was added and shortened to .40. I had put .40S&W as that is the official name since the caliber was original invented/designed by Smith and Wesson and not necessarily the actual brand of the ammo used. ThurstonHowell3rd (talk) 19:51, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

@ThurstonHowell3rd: I don't doubt what you say, but that is not in the source and is therefore WP:OR. ―Mandruss ☎ 19:53, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Roger that. ThurstonHowell3rd (talk) 19:58, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

@ThurstonHowell3rd: In hindsight I should have acknowledged the error in my edit summary, which should have read, S&W is not in the source and is irrelevant anyway, and minor ce. (BTW, I liked Mary Ann more than Ginger, although I'm probably in the minority on that.) ―Mandruss ☎ 23:16, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-12

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• The servers that resize images are using new software. You should report new problems that you notice with images. [6]
• You can now see lists of bugs about Commons, Wikisource and Wiktionary. [7]
• It is now easier to add special characters in VisualEditor. You can edit the list of characters for your wiki. [8] [9]

Problems

• Wikis were broken for a few minutes on Thursday due to a code error.

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since March 11. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from March 17. It will be on all Wikipedias from March 18 (calendar).
• A puzzle piece icon () now shows hidden templates in VisualEditor. You can edit the template by clicking the icon. For example, you can now edit anchor templates. [10] [11]
• You can now add examples, and details about old parameters, in TemplateData. [12] [13]

Meetings

• You can read the notes from the last meeting with the VisualEditor team.
• You can join the next weekly meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meetings you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on March 18 at 23:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes

• The list of bad user names on your wiki will no longer work. The global list will replace it. You can ask to add rules for bad user names on Meta. [14] [15]
• You can comment on how you want to see Wikidata edits in your watchlist on other wikis. [16]
• The final steps of single user login (SUL) will happen in April. You can see the rules to rename accounts. [17]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:15, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

ANI

Thanks for the report, but please be careful about the sort of details you leave in such a public forum - you'll see that I had to suppress a number of edits there. Best ​—DoRD (talk)​ 11:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

@DoRD: Noted, thanks. What problems aside from the age? ―Mandruss ☎ 11:25, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

That's it, in this case, but had the user page not already been suppressed, pointing out its contents wouldn't have been a good idea. That being said, I don't see any issues now. As for the two users, I'll keep an eye on the situation, but I've gone ahead and blocked the newer account. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 12:42, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

what it says about Western culture

Your comment on the ref reminded me of a great Louis CK clip from 2009 called "everything's amazing and nobody's happy". Sorry I'm at work and youtube is blocked so I can't link it for you but if you google it you'll find it. It's actually the first time I ever saw Louis and I've been a huge fan ever since, if you don't know Louis or haven't seen this clip, I suspect you might like it. :) Vespine (talk) 23:47, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

@Vespine: Thanks. I don't know whether I found exactly what you refer to, but I found a 4:11 YouTube clip from Conan which I assume is essentially the same. Yeah, he nails it, the better we have it the unhappier we get. But I wonder how many people have a good laugh and say YEAH and then turn off the TV and never give it much more thought, certainly never letting it change their way of thinking much. There are a few wise people around, but society as a whole remains just a stupid as ever, and I seriously think we're headed for the start of Dark Ages II in one or two centuries (if we manage to avoid a supervirus or something before then). The only question is whether we'll learn from our mistakes and do better on the next try, and I suspect not. After all, we already had plenty of recorded history to prevent the current mess, if we had been wise enough to pay any attention to it. Hunger for wealth and power will always be the strongest forces in human society, and that's not compatible with the long-term survival of a civilization, full stop. ―Mandruss ☎ 01:43, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-13

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since March 18. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from March 24. It will be on all Wikipedias from March 25 (calendar).
• The text of a reference is now more visible when you click on it. It has a blue background. Many wikis already have the blue color. Those wikis can now remove it from their CSS page. [18]
• VisualEditor is now much faster. For many users it is now at least as fast as the wikitext editor. [19] [20] [21]
• When you add a list of references in VisualEditor, you now see it right away. You can still change its group by editing it. [22]

Meetings

• You can read the notes from the last meeting with the VisualEditor team.
• You can join the next weekly meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meetings you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on March 25 at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes

• Talk pages using "LiquidThreads" on mediawiki.org will soon use the new system. [23]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:10, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

Don't thank me, I'm just too tired to argue with people like you who revert and paste warnings rather than talk. My edit was sourced in the article, you are the one being disruptive, don't talk to me. Onsenfiche (talk) 22:11, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Ok, thanks withdrawn. We discuss on the talk page, rather than bicker using edit summaries. I was about to start said discussion myself, despite the fact that the responsibility was technically yours, but then I saw your self-revert. Please discuss next time. ―Mandruss ☎ 22:12, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Reference desk

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Reference desk. Legobot (talk) 00:05, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-14

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• You can now hide site banners even if you don't have an account. [24]
• You can now add citations more easily with VisualEditor on the French and Italian Wikipedia. The tool adds the information when you add some types of links. In the future you will be able to add this tool to your wiki. [25] [26] [27]
• All sites should now be faster if you have a recent browser. [28]
• You could see a serious bug when editing some templates with VisualEditor. It was fixed quickly. [29]
• VisualEditor could break when you edited an image. The issue was fixed quickly. [30]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since March 25. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from March 31. It will be on all Wikipedias from April 1 (calendar).
• VisualEditor is now the main editing tool on 53 more Wikipedias. [31]
• You can now edit the mobile site of all wikis without an account. [32]
• You can test a new tool on the beta mobile site on the English Wikipedia. With the new tool, you can create lists of articles. [33]
• You can now see that VisualEditor is opening even if you're not looking at the top of the page. [34]
• VisualEditor doesn't leave empty titles with just nowiki tags any more. [35] [36] [37] [38]

Meetings

• You can join a meeting with the Wikidata team. The meeting will be on IRC on March 31 at 16:00 (UTC). [39]
• You can read the notes from the last meeting with the VisualEditor team.
• You can join the next weekly meeting with the Editing team. During the meetings you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on April 1 at 18:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:18, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-15

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• You can join a new email list for important news about Wikimedia Labs. [40]
• You can read the last monthly report. In the future you can read team reports every three months. You can see current work on the roadmap. [41] [42]
• The number of articles in Special:Statistics is now updated once a month. [43]
• You can use a new version of the Wikipedia app for Android. Using the app, you can now share a fact with your friends. [44]

Problems

• The import tool was broken for a few days. Imports didn't add log entries. You can delete and import pages again if necessary. [45]
• Labs was broken several times this week. [46] [47] [48] [49]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since April 1. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from April 7. It will be on all Wikipedias from April 8 (calendar).
• You can now add the same special characters with VisualEditor as with the wikitext editor. [50]
• Many bugs around copy-paste in VisualEditor are now fixed. [51] [52]
• You can now use basic tools of VisualEditor in the new talk tool. You can add links, bold and italics. You can also mention people. [53]

Meetings

• You can join the next weekly meeting with the Editing team. During the meetings you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on April 8 at 18:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes

• You can again comment on how you want to see Wikidata edits in your watchlist on other wikis. [54]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:42, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

RE:Signature

Hello, Mandruss. You have new messages at Pikachu2568's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

— Pikachu ^pika!2568 @ 09:19, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

For keeping a level-head at Talk:Shooting of Walter Scott.

Ian.thomson (talk) 15:53, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Just another day at the orifice. Thanks for the comments, and the kitty. ―Mandruss ☎ 16:05, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

RD

Thanks for that explanation -- as a matter of fact I wasn't sure what point you were making! But it's clear now. —Steve Summit (talk) 13:25, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Hello

Why did you make those reverts?

@43.224.156.79: What reverts are you referring to? ―Mandruss ☎ 08:57, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

This one. 43.224.156.79 (talk) 13:11, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Users may freely remove anything from their own talk page, per WP:OWNTALK. Therefore no explanation is required. But if you make a habit of vandalizing other users' talk pages, you could very easily up blocked from Wikipedia. ―Mandruss ☎ 13:16, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Didn't you notice that I made the message at the top before you made that revert?

Help: Stray reflist

Thanks for removing my stray reflist.

I inserted it to be able to review the appearance of a cited source, while editing a section, and then forgot to remove it before saving the page.

Would you happen to know a way to review the edit of a section - including the cited sources - without the error-prone manual insertion and subsequent removal of a reflist template?

Thanks. Lklundin (talk) 13:27, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

@Lklundin: No problem. No, I think you have to edit the entire article to do that, but you can then use the citation tooltips to verify the ref in Preview, if you have them enabled in your Prefs. That way you don't have to go down to the References section and search for your ref. ―Mandruss ☎ 13:35, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

OK, thanks - also for the advice. Perhaps one day, the reviewing of sources while editing a section becomes possible. Lklundin (talk) 17:20, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Your ping

Your ping [55] didn't work, or at least I didn’t receive a notification. I'm not sure why but WP:Notifications mentions various reasons it might not work. I noticed it on my watchlist instead.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 12:30, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Well crap. Thanks for the heads up, I'll try to figure it out. ―Mandruss ☎ 12:37, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@JohnBlackburne: WP:Notifications offerred no clues, so I tried it without the {{hidden begin}} and {{hidden end}}. Did you receive that one? ―Mandruss ☎ 12:44, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

I think it’s that there's a limit of 20 notifications at a time. See this documentation, the 'Notes' section. It’s a feature not a bug, to stop inadvertent mass notifications arising from transclusions of pages with lots of mentions, as has happened in the past. You would have to divide them up or do it another way.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 12:49, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I've not received any pings either. I can see why the second set wouldn't have worked: you need to include the pings in a newly signed edit, and amendments to a preceding edit, even if newly signed, are mentioned as a known problem in WP:NOTIFICATIONS. NebY (talk) 12:53, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@JohnBlackburne and NebY: I just added 16 pings in one edit, but it only shows the first 7. ―Mandruss ☎ 12:56, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

{{Reply to}} only supports 7 notifications at once.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 12:59, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

This worked - bravo! NebY (talk) 13:07, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@JohnBlackburne and NebY: Utter madness. Thanks for the helps. ―Mandruss ☎ 13:08, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

'influence editing'

I'd be interested to hear how this would in any way influence editing? If you were concerned about that, it would be a private ballot, anyone can add them up in a few seconds, removing running totals is therefore not really helpful in my opinion. Thanks, 1Potato2Potato3Potato4 (talk) 15:30, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@1Potato2Potato3Potato4: Hi, I didn't mean to offend. It might influence voting in that a person might be reluctant to vote for a candidate that doesn't have much other support (yet), and that would be self-reinforcing. Once down in the counts, a candidate would have that much more difficulty recovering. Further, I can easily count them when voting is closed, and keeping them updated would be just extra work. What would be the benefit to running totals? ―Mandruss ☎ 15:37, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Apologies for the slightly harsh message here initially. The benefit of keeping a running total now, is that firstly if this discussion is going to affect the whole of Wikipedia, it needs to have hundreds of voters. Someone probably needs to get messages out at the top of watchlists, but I have no idea who to ask. Counting those up after the initial vote will be a nightmare, what with the potential for three different choices with different 'points'. Keeping a running total on that score saves a lot of time after. In addition, I doubt I will be the only one who will try and vote tactically, potentially changing my vote to try and keep the ones I like through to the next round, so it is good to see the stats for that (obviously a less valid point). Thanks for the response, 1Potato2Potato3Potato4 (talk) 16:13, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@1Potato2Potato3Potato4: Choices that affect the entire community are often, even routinely, decided by far less than hundreds. This is one that is less important than many others, the question of which non-red color to use. Any difficulty of counting the final vote shouldn't concern anyone but me, since I'll be the person doing it. I see no problem with that at all, even if there are hundreds of voters. I have excellent attention to detail (it's one of my few real strengths), I can be extremely careful when needed, and I can handle it. I really feel a person's voting should be independent of other people's voting. All of this said, I encourage you to discuss this in a new subsection, if you feel strongly about it. I'm willing to go with any consensus there, and I'm willing to keep the running totals updated if we use them. ―Mandruss ☎ 16:24, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict)It will be necessary to count the votes after voting closes anyway; we will have far more confidence in that than in the maintenance of a running total (amended by each voter? by you? by a team? by the occasional vandal or someone who's not had their morning coffee?). It's not at all hard. Out of curiosity, I've already thrown together a quick spreadsheet which i could refine to process hundreds of votes with litttle manual intervention, and my skills are tiny compared to those of many other editors here - probably including Mandruss. I'm happy to leave the management of his process to him. (Which said, I'd quite like to see option 0A - the current one - included in the last vote so that it may be very clear that it is not the "least worst" option.) NebY (talk) 16:34, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@NebY: Tell you what, I'll count Round 1 when it closes on 6 May, and you do the same with your spreadsheet. I'll ping you from here to remind you. We can then compare our respective three finalists (any disagreement in the details won't matter, unless someone wants me to publish the counts). How that be? ―Mandruss ☎ 16:59, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

That's fine - I'm sure I'll be superfluous but I'll be happy to do it. NebY (talk) 19:56, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@NebY: I can make 0A an unconditional candidate in Round 2, and that sounds uncontroversial to me so I'm inclined to skip the discussion. It can't do any harm. This will of course remove the need for it in Round 1, but I can guess it can stay anyway? ―Mandruss ☎ 16:45, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Oh good - that may help with some of the doubts already expressed (and even fits that "consultation" model I mentioned long ago). Yes, I don't think its presence in this round will cause any trouble - so far everyone's ignored it anyway! NebY (talk) 19:56, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

I'll just keep a tally on my userpage so that I know whether to change my vote. The fact that far less than hundreds decide things that affect thousands does not mean that we should accept votes from less than 50 as consensus. As the organiser of the idea, you probably should have gone to ask for it to be put at the top of the watchlist so that we can have more editors voting, a change which will affect every one of our users being voted on with no advertising anywhere and which can only be stumbled upon at the village pump is ridiculous. 1Potato2Potato3Potato4 (talk) 16:31, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@1Potato2Potato3Potato4: More questions better suited for group consideration. My talk page is not a good place. You're the first person to make either suggestion, so they wouldn't seem as self-evident as you say. ―Mandruss ☎ 16:37, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Well, I've put in a request at the watchlist page, so we'll wait and see. Thanks for the discussion, 1Potato2Potato3Potato4 (talk) 16:38, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@NebY: See Technical 13's comment. I saw this coming after my discussion with him at the top of the Colo(u)r nominations section, where I practically begged for guidance from the group, he was distinctly uninterested in helping that along, and I was left to fumble along in the dark. I had also previously made a briefer comment in the main section, in reply to yours: Ok, with that comment I'm prepared to continue to move my process along, even if it's unclear whether it will be of any benefit in the end. I'll leave the rest, including debate with JohnBlackburne and discussion of phab, to others. ―Mandruss ☎ 20:11, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up; the page is on my watchlist but I'm not keeping close track. I've raised a few questions there. NebY (talk) 20:48, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Hillary Rodham Clinton - Move Discussion

Hi,

This is a notification to let you know that there is a requested move discussion ongoing at Talk:Hillary_Rodham_Clinton/April_2015_move_request#Requested_move. You are receiving this notification because you have previously participated in some capacity in naming discussions related to the article in question.

Thanks. And have a nice day. NickCT (talk) 18:44, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

We need a kitten once in a while, right?

CyanoTex (talk) 05:58, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! ―Mandruss ☎ 06:32, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-18

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• All accounts are now unique and work on all wikis. [56] [57]
• You can read a report from experts who tested the security of MediaWiki. [58]
• There was a problem between VisualEditor and an antivirus software. It is now fixed. [59]
• You can help test VisualEditor to see if it works in your language. [60]

Problems

• Some Labs tools had problems due to a software bug. [61]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since April 22. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from April 28. It will be on all Wikipedias from April 29 (calendar).
• It is now clearer that you can delete several rows and columns when you edit tables in VisualEditor. [62]
• You now see more information when you search for a template in VisualEditor. [63]
• You can now cancel when you add citations on desktop, or edit links on mobile, in VisualEditor. [64]
• You can now see the list of other formats for videos only after they're ready. [65]

Meetings

• You can join the next weekly meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on April 29 at 18:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:11, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Move comments in Talk:Hillary Rodham Clinton/April 2015 move request

Hi, I'm asking editors (on both sides of the question) who have made responses to individual !votes in the survey section to move those discussions to subsections in the discussion section. That will keep things tidy. Cheers! bd2412 T 23:42, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Sorry

I am sorry for my basic edits. It seemed appropriate to delete "black" and "white" from the article, due to the fact that it is clearly visible which race they belong to. Sorry, Master Mandruss. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lowkey40 (talk • contribs) 02:16, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

@Lowkey40: No need to apologize, and thank you for stopping. I believe that it's a good idea to learn more about Wikipedia editing before making controversial edits in controversial articles (race is usually controversial, like religion and politics). As I said, the races are currently under discussion on the article's talk page. If you don't know what that is, it's one of the first things you should learn. Just click on the Talk tab near the top left of the article page (or somewhere else, I'm not familiar with the mobile platform) and start reading discussions. Good luck. ―Mandruss ☎ 02:23, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Signature

You and I seem to be in a lot of the same discussions, and I just wanted to say thanks for the signatures you posted here which served as a good starting point for mine, having little CSS experience myself. ― Padenton|✉   18:37, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

@Padenton: I didn't post the signatures, they were posted by their respective owners. All I did was create the subsection and start it with my signature. If the subsection has proven useful to you and others, that's awesome. You can write instructions all day, but there's no substitute for actual real-life examples. ―Mandruss ☎ 18:41, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Support request with team editing experiment project

Dear tech ambassadors, instead of spamming the Village Pump of each Wikipedia about my tiny project proposal for researching team editing (see here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Research_team_editing), I have decided to leave to your own discretion if the matter is relevant enough to inform a wider audience already. I would appreciate if you could appraise if the Wikipedia community you are more familiar with could have interest in testing group editing "on their own grounds" and with their own guidance. In a nutshell: it consists in editing pages as a group instead of as an individual. This social experiment might involve redefining some aspects of the workflow we are all used to, with the hope of creating a more friendly and collaborative environment since editing under a group umbrella creates less social exposure than traditional "individual editing". I send you this message also as a proof that the Inspire Campaign is already gearing up. As said I would appreciate of *you* just a comment on the talk page/endorsement of my project noting your general perception about the idea. Nothing else. Your contribution helps to shape the future! (which I hope it will be very bright, with colors, and Wikipedia everywhere) Regards from User:Micru on meta.

sub par college

Hatting or deleting the question might have been better than suggesting my quoting the actual guidelines was inaccurate. The problem is that once people se a few answers they will simply read the question, ignore what's been written below it, and put there answer at the bottom, which is what I predict will happen unless Andy or another hats it soon. μηδείς (talk) 18:08, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Then your beef would be with them, not with me. Besides, you responded, not hatted or deleted, so it seems your remarks are bit hypocritical. If you're right, the appropriate line is between the question and the first reply, not between the first reply and the second. My reply was not so long that responders are unlikely to read it, any more so than yours. ―Mandruss ☎ 18:11, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

I did not come here to criticize you, but to point out that the longer a thread gets, even with comments saying the thread is invalid, the more likely it is to hit critical mass. I didn't respond to the question, I quoted policy verbatim. Neither of us answered the question. Given I assume you were in effect seconding my objection, your hatting or deleting the item would have been fine. μηδείς (talk) 18:29, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

I abstain from hatting/removal decisions due to the absence of consensus on those matters. If one satisfies you and those who agree with you in that area, they offend a different group who do not. I don't care to put myself in the middle of such squabbles, thanks. If and when we ever form a consensus, and that consensus appears in Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines, I'll be happy to help implement it—including defending it against responders who don't. ―Mandruss ☎ 18:34, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

RevDel

When requesting revdel, you should just quietly ask an active admin on their talk page, or email the oversight team, especially if it requires suppression. ANI is one of the most watched pages on Wikipedia, and if we are trying to hide information, posting a link to the information on that page does just the opposite. Anyway I have taken care of it, Cheers. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 01:22, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

You can also use IRC to raise the issue. The WP:REVDEL page has a link to a webchat link to the right IRC chatroom, making it very easy. There are generally multiple admins there, making that approach fast, easy and private. Ravensfire (talk) 01:25, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

No IRC client and I don't care to get one just for that purpose. I'll use the link at the top of WP:RFO. Thanks. ―Mandruss ☎ 01:27, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

By default, it sends you to IRC through the web based client Kiwi(so no external client required), but if that still isn't your bag, no worries, an admins talk page or emailing oversight would get the job done as well. Also worthy of note, I learned this after I posted a request for RevDel at AN myself, and was promptly told not to. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 01:34, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Just to reinforce - I don't have an IRC client. Don't want one. Don't know how to use IRC for anything. Don't care to know how to use IRC for anything. I found the web client pretty darn easy to use. I also used one of the drama boards for a request and was directed to use IRC or e-mail in the future. Ultimately, what ever is the easiest approach for you is the best approach to use for this. Ravensfire (talk) 01:45, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-19

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• You can now chat with other users in Phabricator. [66]
• There was a rare problem with VisualEditor. The text of another wiki could be added to your edit. The issue is now fixed. [67] [68]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since April 29. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from May 5. It will be on all Wikipedias from May 6 (calendar).
• It is now easier to add a link in VisualEditor. You can see an image and a description about the page. [69]

Meetings

• You can join a meeting with the Language team. The meeting will be on May 5 at 14:30 (UTC). [70]
• You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on May 6 at 18:00 (UTC). See how to join.
• You can join an event in France on May 22−25. You need to sign up before May 8. [71]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:12, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

New question raised regarding Talk:Hillary Rodham Clinton/April 2015 move request

Some opposers of this move have now contended that there is a "Critical fault in proposal evidence", which brings the opinions expressed into question. Please indicate if this assertion in any way affects your position with respect to the proposed move. Cheers! bd2412 T 04:37, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

No it does not, since my !vote argument is not affected by the new results. ―Mandruss ☎ 04:47, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Reference desks

Hi, I just wanted to say that I did appreciate your comments regarding our reference desks. I too think we should strive to model real ref desks, at least in many aspects. However, as I hope you can see from my responses on the talk page and in the RD/L thread, it is often the case that a question can be answered, or at least addressed with references, even though some other users will want to share opinions and unsourced claims, and the topic might not seem to have reliable sources at first glance. In this matter, and many others, I think it is the respondent who should be (gently, civilly) chastised, not the asker. Real life ref desks will also almost never tell a person to go away if they ask a question that seems a bit like requests for advice or opinion (unless they are being very rude, disruptive, violent, etc). Instead, they usually try to supply relevant resources, even if they do not fully answer a question. Cheers, SemanticMantis (talk) 14:22, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Many of us have read and understand your position, but I've detected no change whatsoever in that direction. I lack the knowledge, the imagination, and the patience to find suitable references for such borderline topics, and I assume that's the reason for others as well. Unless we all agree to stand aside and let you handle the borderline questions (if we could even agree on identification), I think my approach is the more pragmatic and practical one.

Anyway, the biggest thing is that the refdesks are largely just a place where a dozen or two regulars go to find stimulating conversation and debate, which is clearly not their intended purpose. A long time ago, I attempted to hat an off-topic thread, which caused a minor stir, and I got no support from outside observers when I took it to VPP. One experienced editor actually advised that the main thing is to avoid offending people, believe it or not. Some time later, at VPR, I proposed a new space for open discussion of any type, and it got no support because Wikipedia is not a forum; we're here to build an encyclopedia, not to chat with each other about things unrelated to that task. In summary, we will tolerate this, even defend it, but we won't legitimize it, and that seems dysfunctional to me. ―Mandruss ☎ 15:52, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

"We are here to build an encyclopedia" is not really a good reason to disparage the ref desks, in my opinion. Even if they ran in some ideal way, with no jokes, no opinions, and only references, that would not necessarily build the encyclopedia (e.g. "what's this bird?", "can you help me with this calculus problem?", etc), but it does serve some of the same same goals, namely getting information to people who want it. So I see no reason to expect or demand that ref desk activity explicitly help improve article space, even though it often does as a side benefit.

Anyway, I didn't mean so much to get in to an involved policy discussion with you. I just meant to acknowledge my support of your comments on unsourced speculation and opinion, and also point out that the question in question was indeed something that can be learned about through providing references to reliable sources in the academic literature. SemanticMantis (talk) 18:17, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Shooting of Walter Scott has been nominated for Did You Know

Tech News: 2015-20

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• You can now make charts and maps on your wiki with the new "graph" tool. If you have an old browser, you will see images instead. It uses a tool called Vega; you can learn how to use it and write help pages for your wiki. You can use the Vega edit tool to make charts and copy the code to your wiki. Charts and maps use complex code and you should put them into templates. In the future, you will be able to create charts with VisualEditor. [72] [73] [74]
• You can apply for technical jobs to develop tools for the community. [75]
• The logos of all wikis are now in a new place. It will make pages load faster. You can still ask to change the logo. You can also use local CSS for brief changes. [76] [77]

Problems

• There was a problem that caused slow editing. [78]
• Pages were sometimes removed from your watchlist in VisualEditor. This problem is now fixed. [79]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since May 6. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from May 12. It will be on all Wikipedias from May 13 (calendar).
• You can now use data from Wikidata on more pages. The page doesn't need to be linked to the Wikidata item. It works on a few wikis and more wikis will be added soon. [80] [81]
• You should get fewer errors when you add files to Commons. [82]
• When you use an external link to link to a wiki page, VisualEditor now converts it to a wiki link. [83]
• When you add a link in VisualEditor, you see pages that match what you type. It is now easier to see where they match. [84]

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on May 13 at 18:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:46, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Frill-necked lizard

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Frill-necked lizard. Legobot (talk) 00:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Notifications scheme vote

Hello. I feel pretty bad about my not understanding fully the situation I was voting on at Wikipedia talk:Village pump (proposals)#Voting round 3 (runoff). See also this discussion. The more I think about it, if I knew what I know now, I would have probably been opposed to the initial proposal at day one, and would have voted for 0A (current) all along. Even so, that would have meant 6 less round 2 votes for 1A (blue) and thus 3B would have made it to round 3. I'm afraid there are going to be several editors a little more than miffed at me once they realize what happened. I am very sorry, as I doubt anything can be done about it now. This is one of two mistakes I've made on boards like this lately, so I am going stay away from these type pages for a while.

On a more optimistic note: While the green may possibly do a better job at drawing attention, the dark blue is not that dramatically different than the dark green. I think both would draw enough attention to the notifications to be functional (just not as well as the glaring red imo).

If you feel it would be best to have my round 3 vote stricken entirely (removing my right to vote any further on the issue), I would not be opposed nor offended in the least. Thank you. --RacerX¹¹ Talk to me^{Stalk me} 17:33, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

@Racerx11: I see you have confessed publicly, without which I doubt anyone would have noticed. Anyway, I doubt anyone will be miffed at you. I also feel that the voting has been a fun but otherwise pointless exercise. There are indications that the folks who control the software have other plans for the notification number, so our color change would be short-lived and thus a waste of time for them. I came to this conclusion several weeks ago and continued with the voting only because the group didn't tell me to stop. ―Mandruss ☎ 21:30, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I could have kept things to myself and no one be the wiser. I guess I thought there may be others thinking the same way I was. A talk page warning template generates the larger message box, so I still think any scheme would work. Yes, I saw the mention of future plans, possibly making this whole thing a moot point. I'm glad I didn't do something like this on a issue far more important. It's an example of how even when voting seems to be the best or only way to get everyone to agree on something, it still has its flaws. --RacerX¹¹ Talk to me^{Stalk me} 21:50, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-21

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• You can watch a video about the new graph tool.

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since May 13. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from May 19. It will be on all Wikipedias from May 20 (calendar).
• References are now always in the right order. Also, the reference list now only shows references used on the page. [85]
• You can no longer create an account with a colon ':' in it. If you already have one, it still works. [86]
• The toolbar in VisualEditor now looks different. It is easier to see the icons. [87]
• You won't be able to use e-mail lists for a few hours on Tuesday. [88] [89]
• UploadWizard now shows better matches when you add a category to your file. [90]
• A test about VisualEditor will start on the English Wikipedia on Thursday. [91]

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on May 21 at 15:00 (UTC). See how to join.
• You can join a technical meeting in France this week.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:21, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-21

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• You can watch a video about the new graph tool.

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since May 13. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from May 19. It will be on all Wikipedias from May 20 (calendar).
• References are now always in the right order. Also, the reference list now only shows references used on the page. [92]
• You can no longer create an account with a colon ':' in it. If you already have one, it still works. [93]
• The toolbar in VisualEditor now looks different. It is easier to see the icons. [94]
• You won't be able to use e-mail lists for a few hours on Tuesday. [95] [96]
• UploadWizard now shows better matches when you add a category to your file. [97]
• A test about VisualEditor will start on the English Wikipedia on Thursday. [98]

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on May 21 at 15:00 (UTC). See how to join.
• You can join a technical meeting in France this week.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:21, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Guidance on commas after Jr. and Sr.

Following the closure of a recent RfC you participated in, I have started an RfC on the separate but related issue of commas after Jr. and Sr.. Please see Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) § RfC: Guidance on commas after Jr. and Sr. and feel free to comment there. Thanks! —sroc 💬 06:03, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Diary of a Man in Despair

Thanks for your reply to my entry on the help page, but what happened was that I was writing a new article about a book with the above name. I don't know what I did, but suddenly it disappeared. Can you really find no trace of it in the ether?

Sardaka (talk) 10:38, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

@Sardaka: If you were writing it in one of your sandboxes, my guess is that you somehow canceled out without saving it. If you click the Contributions link at the top of any Wikipedia page while you are logged in, you will see a list of the edits you have made (saved), most recent first. If you saved this content anywhere while logged in, it would be listed there. It's also possible you saved this while logged out, but I don't think you would have a sandbox while logged out, and in any case we would need to know what IP address you had then in order to find those edits. ―Mandruss ☎ 10:44, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-22

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems

• VisualEditor was broken for 30 minutes on Tuesday. The problem was due to a tool it uses. [99]
• Some Labs tools had issues last week. [100] [101]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since May 20. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from May 26. It will be on all Wikipedias from May 27 (calendar).

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on May 28 at 18:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes

• You can add your ideas of new tools to help active users like you. [102]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

16:19, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

100, then 1,000, then 500

The point wasn't to make the cops look bad, it was to let readers know there's a history of getting the numbers very wrong, so they should take the 320 figure with a grain of salt. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:02, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

@InedibleHulk: Yeah, it occurred to me after the fact that it might be something besides anti-cop POV. I decided we were probably trying to be a rumor clearing house, saying to the readers who have seen those other numbers, "Yes, we know, and they appear to be wrong based on latest information". That would also be improper, but I've seen people try to do it before. Anyway, as I said, people get shit wrong at first, so the astute reader takes all such details with a grain of salt anyway. They understand that neither Wikipedia nor its sources are Truth, especially only nine days after the event. There are plenty who aren't that astute, sure, but it serves neither them nor Wikipedia to cater to their ignorance. ―Mandruss ☎ 02:14, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I hear you. And yeah, it was originally to dispel rumours, too. Not going to fight it the way I would have then, because the buzz around this is dying down, so there'll be less people to potentially misread/misbelieve things. I also figure it's safe to assume even horrible counters would get it about right the fourth time. If it's actually 339 or 303, doesn't really matter. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:36, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Conversion therapy

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Conversion therapy. Legobot (talk) 00:05, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Reference Desk hatting

I had my reason for hatting that thread and ignoring many other threads that are requests for opinions. I acknowledge that my reason was less than forthright and honest, and was based on the principle of deny recognition. I don't believe that opinion requests should be hatted. The problem with that post is that it was racial trolling, and hatting of trolling is desirable, but it should not be labeled as trolling, which draws more attention to it. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:25, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: Your first sentence makes me think maybe you misunderstood what I said. My issue is about regulars routinely giving opinions where none is requested, and how toleration of that is inconsistent with so much concern about requests for opinions. I'm generally silent about it myself, but it hasn't always been so (I've largely given up, not caring to be a lone voice on this), and I have relatively little influence at RD anyway. ―Mandruss ☎ 02:16, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Okay. That is a valid point. In this case I appeared to be objecting to a request for opinions as an unsuccessful attempt to hide the troll post. The troll is temporarily blocked, but is likely to cause more trouble when he comes off block. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:21, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

FYI

Hello M. I wanted to let you know that, to the best of my knowledge, the ping system does not work for IPs. I had noticed you using it on a couple pages so this might be a reason that you haven't gotten a reply. I should also add that I was told about this several months ago so things might have changed but I have not seen any updates indicating that it has. Enjoy your Sunday. MarnetteD|Talk 04:08, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

@MarnetteD: Your comment does appear to be confirmed at Wikipedia:Notifications. Thanks for taking the time to let me know. I've been wasting time doing this for over a year and you're the first. ―Mandruss ☎ 04:28, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

I am glad I could help. I only wish I had noticed it earlier and saved you some typing :-) Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 04:32, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Mild Disagreement

I mildly disagree with your comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&diff=prev&oldid=664808436

I am only making my comment here so as not to get into a quarrel at the Help Desk. It is one of the worse ways, but edit-warring and personal attacks are worse. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:50, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: Agreed, of course, but even that would be short of a really complete answer. One must truncate at some point for the sake of conciseness and time considerations, and we would choose different points of truncation. I rarely have the patience to compose the thorough, thousand-word responses that I see from some other responders, especially given (1) the evidence that many of them are not even being read by the OPs, and (2) the numerous instances of the same answer in the Help desk archives. Both edit-warring and PA would be under the umbrella of "learn about Wikipedia editing principles and policy". To an OP who clearly doesn't know Thing #1 about Wikipedia editing, I think a mention of those negative things in the Help desk setting would do more harm than good. Thanks for the comments! ―Mandruss ☎ 04:47, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

This particular case is a good example of a question type that is asked and answered multiple times a day at the Help desk. It's a major time sink for responders, and the quality of the answers varies widely. There must be a better way. I've seen evidence of a past attempt at a set of templates for the most common answers, but apparently they have fallen out of use because they didn't work well. I think it would be worth trying an informational page for each of these questions (or one page with a separate section for each question). We would spend a little time crafting the best possible answer for each. Then, the response could be simply a link to the page or section with a brief additional comment (e.g. "Please read it and return here if you still have any questions") to humanize the response. All we have now are very wordy and complex policy and guideline pages, which we can link to but still have to summarize and synthesize "on the fly". ―Mandruss ☎ 05:35, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

See User:Mandruss/sandbox3#An article contains factual errors for an example. I think this would be an improvement over both templating and the status quo. I can see one downside in that the page, as with any guideline page, would be another battleground and subject to instruction creep that would defeat its purpose to some degree. It's one of the inevitable costs of leaving everything open to the community. ―Mandruss ☎ 06:55, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-23

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems

• Many wikis were slow for a few hours on Wednesday due to a code error. Sometimes the pages did not load at all and showed an error. [103]
• Some tools in Labs were broken on Wednesday and Thursday. [104]
• Edit tags added by the software were broken on all wikis from May 23 to May 28. [105] [106]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since May 27. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from June 2. It will be on all Wikipedias from June 3 (calendar).
• You won't be able to use e-mail lists for a few hours on Tuesday. [107]

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on June 3 at 18:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:39, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Soften the notification number

What was the result of that long discussion? I want the colours of notification must be different. Always getting red notification is not right. Red is the symbol of Danger. Even when someone will post positive message in my talk page, i will get red notification.--Cosmic  Emperor  01:56, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@CosmicEmperor: We did two rounds of voting to narrow the candidate colors to two choices, the current colors and one other choice. Then we did a runoff vote between those two choices, and the current colors won with 54% of the vote. So a majority of voters are opposed to any change, and the proposal failed. However, it was mentioned that some other software changes are already in the works. If and when they are rolled out, they would include changes to those colors. With one of those changes, the notification number would be one of nine different colors depending on the type of notification; see the discussion at the top of Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Colo.28u.29r_nominations, below the table. ―Mandruss ☎ 07:49, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Mattress Performance

Not again!! That article is a magnet for BLP violations having the character of libel against someone who has not been charged with a crime. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:18, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm glad I'm late to that party. ―Mandruss ☎ 21:20, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Mattress Performance (Carry That Weight)#Graphic "Reenactment"

Anti-Germanism? --89.204.154.76 (talk) 14:32, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Please make an attempt to understand the situation rather than jumping to conclusions. All of the attempts to post links came from Munich, which is why I mentioned Germans. That's all. If they had all come from Beijing, I would have mentioned Chinese. And, as I made abundantly clear in the talk thread, I changed the comment before it was replied to, and no one would have even known about it except that someone made a fuss about the "previous" (left-hand) side of one of my diffs! Sheesh. ―Mandruss ☎ 14:38, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback regarding posting length

Hello. I want to thank you for your kind words. And your advice regarding being somewhat more terse in my posts - in my work (expert opinion subjected to scrutiny and potentially cross-examination in deposition) it is imperative to provide cogent reasons to be persuasive, however, it is not a requirement to constrict the argument for brevity's sake, as, I am learning, is called for in this alternative setting. Improvethewiki (talk) 19:22, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-24

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from June 9. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from June 10. It will be on all Wikipedias from June 11 (calendar). [108] [109]
• If you use the Monobook skin, the buttons and other controls now look more the same in VisualEditor and other tools. [110]
• When you edit links and other items in VisualEditor, you now need to apply your change before closing the tool. [111]
• The title of dialogs is now easier to see when it is near long buttons. [112]

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on June 9 at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.
• You can join a meeting with the Language team. The meeting will be on June 10 at 14:30 (UTC). [113]

Future changes

• If you have a bot, you may need to fix it. The default continuation mode of the API for action=query will change at the end of June. [114]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:21, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Wiki app

Regarding the problem with the app, I've posted here, but the problem persists. Lbertolotti

@Lbertolotti: Hi, I'm sorry but I don't know anything about that app. I was not involved in that thread, although I did comment in the one below it. ―Mandruss ☎ 07:43, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

You are the one who told me to post there. Do you someone else who can help with this issue?Lbertolotti (talk) 19:21, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

@Lbertolotti: Ah, I had forgotten about directing you to that page. By "the IRC channel is empty", do you mean that no one else was connected? If so, have you tried several times more at different times of day? On the page linked to by AKlapper, are there any other avenues that you can pursue?

If all else fails, you could start a new thread at the Help Desk, include a link to the WP:VPT thread, explain that you have not received a solution there, and ask for further guidance. If that does not produce results, I don't know what else could be done, unless you wanted to try the same thing at the Teahouse. Good luck!

I noticed that your WP:VPT thread was just archived and is now here. ―Mandruss ☎ 19:37, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

@Lbertolotti: - Did you see the new note added recently to the end of your archived WP:VPT thread? It could be the answer you are looking for, if not an immediate solution. ―Mandruss ☎ 15:30, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

The "solution" or workaround is to use "pull to refresh" on the cellphone.Lbertolotti (talk) 16:06, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Genetically modified food

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Genetically modified food. Legobot (talk) 00:03, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-25

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• Users have created more than 5000 articles with the new translation tool. [115]
• Editing a page is now faster. This is because some statistics about edit filters were removed. [116]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 16 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from 17 June. It will be on all Wikipedias from 18 June (calendar).

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on June 16 at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.
• You can join a meeting with the Wikidata team. It will be on June 19 at 16:00 (UTC). [117]

Future changes

• Developers are working on a new tool to get and send newsletters. If you read or write a newsletter, share your ideas about it. [118]
• If you use Pywikibot, soon you won't be able to use compat anymore. [119] [120] [121]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:04, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Religion in infoboxes of nations

There is an RfC that you may be interested in at Template talk:Infobox country#RfC: Religion in infoboxes of nations. Please join us and help us to determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:32, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Re: Editing regarding "Turn" references.....

Mandruss,

It makes no matter to me if you changed my additions. Thank you for the reply about the changes - it was courteous! However, you might want to consider other, more unifying ideas on editing and what is allowable and what is not..... It was upon viewing someone else's edit on Peggy Shippen's page while I was researching the characters of the show that inspired me to start adding to a few of my own favorites.

Thank you for editing, and your desire to make sure that correct spelling is maintained on Wikipedia. It's my pet peeve, too. I catch others at work asking for things in memes.... "Can I haz (X)?" .... and it makes me cringe! Professional environment and people talk in memes..... ;)

Btw: I had a devil of a time trying to figure out how to respond back to you about the other reference pages that initiated my editing spree, especially since I had no idea how you private messaged me in the first place..... LOL! I signed up just to respond. Poetsiren (talk) 15:58, 17 June 2015 (UTC)Poetsiren

Thanks for the comments. I'm not sure what you mean by "more unifying ideas on editing", unless it's that I should care less about what's appropriate structure in a Wikipedia article. There aren't many absolutes in this business, only majority consensus, but I can assure you that a clear majority of experienced Wikipedia editors would agree with me that pop culture references do not belong in the leads of articles about historical figures. They're actually more about the actors than the people being portrayed, who are long dead and had nothing to do with the TV series. Thanks for mentioning the Peggy Shippen article, I have created an "In popular culture" section there and moved the pop culture reference there. Happy editing! ―Mandruss ☎ 16:24, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-26

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• Some wikis can now be used only with HTTPS. This includes the English, Russian and Chinese Wikipedias, among others. Soon all wikis will use only HTTPS for all users. [122] [123]
• You can't use HTTPS wikis with Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP. You need to use another browser. [124]

Problems

• On June 15, search was broken on all wikis for several hours. [125] [126] [127]
• On June 16, images were broken for several hours on wikis that use InstantCommons. [128] [129] [130]
• Many Labs tools were broken for several days. Almost all of them are back now. They may be missing some data for the last 10 days. [131] [132] [133]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from June 23. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from June 24. It will be on all Wikipedias from June 25 (calendar).

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on June 23 at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:24, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-27

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• Long lines in code blocks now look better. [134]
• You can now see graphs in VisualEditor. [135]
• When you read a page on the mobile site, you can now see a link to go to its talk page. [136]
• The code coloring tool has changed. You can now use many more languages. It now also works on mobile. [137] [138] [139]
• You can look at a new site to learn how to reuse data from Wikimedia sites. [140]

Problems

• JavaScript was broken on some wikis due to a code error. VisualEditor and other tools that use JavaScript were broken. [141]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from June 30. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from July 1. It will be on all Wikipedias from July 2 (calendar).
• You can now use a tool in VisualEditor to add and edit code in color. [142]
• When you edit a sentence in the Translate tool, it can show you older translations. They help you save time if they look alike. The older translations should now work better. If you see problems, you should report them. [143]
• If you are an admin or have other special rights, you now need a strong password. [144]
• Bot and JavaScript coders: The old continuation mode of the API for action=query doesn't work any more. [145]

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on June 30 at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future

• When you create a new account, it will also create one on Meta-Wiki and mediawiki.org. [146]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:56, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Year 2000 problem

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Year 2000 problem. Legobot (talk) 00:02, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Shooting of Walter Scott

Do try and pass this thank you on. Thanks. Victuallers (talk) 00:10, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-28

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• On the mobile site, you now see more information when you search for a page. It now shows the description from Wikidata. [147]

Problems

• The code of long pages is not colored any more. You may see this problem on the pages of long gadgets. [148]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from July 7. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from July 8. It will be on all Wikipedias from July 9 (calendar).
• The "Page information" tool shows how many users watch the page. You can now see how many are active. [149] [150]
• You can now translate articles into English with the new translation tool. [151]

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on July 7 at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:13, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Train service/s

Hello. I noticed that you reverted KarmaskulK's edit to 2015 Philadelphia train derailment. He had changed "disrupted train service" to "disrupted train services". I can understand your reversion if you believe "service" to be a general term meaning the operation of trains, but in my country and no doubt many others, a train service is a scheduled journey. Thus, the train departing at 9:04 am is a service, as is the 9:15, and so on. Perhaps it's not so in the US, or perhaps you are unfamiliar with that terminology, but it does seem to me that KarmaskulK was correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akld guy (talk • contribs) 22:48, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

@Akld guy: - Thanks for the comment. The article is about an entirely American event, and is written in American English, so I think it should use American idiom. If you still disagree, please raise the issue on the article's talk page so you can get input from other editors. If the consensus there is for "train services", I will not object. ―Mandruss ☎ 22:52, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

OK, it seems that the terminology is different in the US. I had to draw it to your attention, as I'm sure you appreciate, since you might have been unaware of the distinction. Akld guy (talk) 22:58, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-29

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• You can now see a list of pages with errors in code coloring. [152]

Problems

• There was a problem with editing on Thursday. Some tools like bots and VisualEditor were broken on all wikis for 10 minutes. [153]
• There was a problem with images on Thursday. They were broken on all wikis for 15 minutes. [154]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from July 14. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from July 15. It will be on all Wikipedias from July 16 (calendar).

Meetings

• You can join a technical meeting at Wikimania in Mexico City this week. [155]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:06, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Wrong ping

Apologies for the incorrect ping. All I can say is that it was early, and I hadn't yet had a coffee. Mjroots (talk) 21:31, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

NP. From the intended target's reply I take it I should have been clearer about the reason for the re-ping! ―Mandruss ☎ 23:31, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals). Legobot (talk) 00:03, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-30

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from July 21. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from July 22. It will be on all Wikipedias from July 23 (calendar).
• You now see more warnings in the image viewer. They tell you to be careful when using the image, for example if it shows a person. [156]

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on July 21 at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes

• Soon you won't be able to use MathJax to display math. [157]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

03:05, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Date formats (article Death of Sandra Bland)

1) I don't believe the article date format is relevant to the ref date format.

2) My argument above is irrelevant.

See, another well-regarded editor deleted the access dates in an unrelated edit. I have to put them all back in, before going up against her at the article's Talk page. Please bear with me. The access-date attestation is relevant to restoring the dead links 5 years from now, which is what I do. The format of those dates is not relevant to preserving the attestations that I use to help me restore dead links. I'm putting them back in by attesting to the access dates my own damn self.   —Aladdin Sane (talk) 03:40, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

@Aladdin Sane: I didn't remove any accessdates. I changed the format to be consistent with ALL previously existing accessdates in that article. Need I hunt down the guideline that says these should be consistent? Feel free to go ahead and continue with your format, and I'll mass-change all of them when you're done. ―Mandruss ☎ 03:47, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

@Mandruss: That was the idea (regardless of guidelines, changing the date format will slow me down, but it won't stop me reviving the dead links in 2020). I wouldn't revert a mass change like the one you propose. Going after another well respected editor (SV) for the deletion of this material is "sensitive", and I mean to do it. I'll ping her at the article Talk page, and hopefully remember to include this conversation as a ref. The point is the format is less important than the live information itself. I'm restoring it by hand.   —Aladdin Sane (talk) 04:16, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

@Aladdin Sane: My preferred link rot solution is to pre-add an archive copy where possible, with deadurl=no. Then, if a link goes dead, all that's necessary is to change deadurl to yes, no research or other work required. Until an editor gets around to doing that, non-editing readers can access the archive version using the "Archived" link in the citation. And I noticed that SV removed at least one such pre-added archive version, apparently with the rationale that archive isn't needed until a link goes dead. I didn't dispute it. ―Mandruss ☎ 04:27, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

@Mandruss: We're generally agreed, in spirit. It's just I'm a bit busy right now, leading up to a Talk page post.   —Aladdin Sane (talk) 04:31, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Phew, I posted it. Now, then, let's talk about date formats, if you care?   —Aladdin Sane (talk) 06:15, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

@Aladdin Sane: (Let me know if I can stop pinging you) Sure, what would you like to talk about? ―Mandruss ☎ 06:20, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

(BTW, you never need to ping someone on their own talk page, that's automatic.) ―Mandruss ☎ 06:31, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Um, about the pings, probably not stop pinging me. As a WikiSloth I move from article to article without any heed. However, I assumed I could stop pinging you, because this conversation occurs on your Talk page.

About date formats, I'd like you to hear, as a rational critter, what I eventually succumbed to, having roamed the planet in this age my fifth decade. Now, in articles we need readability for the reader (British or American, depending on the subject and the opposite will have to deal, tough, per MOS), but in cites, and elsewhere we need simple quantification of the fact. Time moves forward, in one direction in reality, and incrementing it means going from lower numbers to higher.

Not only do ISO dates (YYYY-MM-DD) accomplish this, but they also accomplish a computer bibliographic goal that I hope will become worldwide: Take a look at your files. If you file them by ISO dates, they also file chronologically, when sorted alphabetically. This never happens with any other date format.

Here's an interesting argument that you need not buy: You're either committed to ISO dates, or you are not a citizen of the world.

The solution to this problem is not minor. Because in all cases, 100% of it is fixed, and therefore sorts. As an IT, I advise admins who manage hundreds (thousands) of files. When I can show them a way that managing their files alphabetically using ISO 8660 dates, also sorts them chronologically, they "practically orgasm in my lap".

I just read your User: page "in toto". I skimmed it before, because, as I said, I was busy forming a post that will probably get me banned. We've a scary lot in common. But as an ex-paratrooper, I couldn't have a better comrade to go down with. (Not to imply that you're going down; this is just a conversation, but I did attack, and I'm waiting for the blowback, I may well go down, you're safe here on this point.)   —Aladdin Sane (talk) 07:33, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

I have no intention or expectation of going down any time soon; that seems a bit hyperbolic, and I don't know what part of my user page you're referring to; but never mind. As for accessdate format, you're welcome to try to sell ISO as the article's accessdate format in article talk. If something resembling a consensus is reached, you can then mass-change the article to ISO with my blessing and, very likely, assistance. I might even support the change after seeing some other arguments for and against. I was a software developer for decades, so your argument is not completely lost on me. But consistency within the article is the first priority, and MDY is the format that has been used throughout the history of the article to date. ―Mandruss ☎ 07:48, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

No, that's cool. We're on the same sheet of music here. As English stands this minute, you're more likely to revert me than I am you, and as I admit, I won't contest that.   —Aladdin Sane (talk) 08:06, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

@Aladdin Sane: Forgot the ping. ―Mandruss ☎ 07:50, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-31

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• You can now use redirects to link to JavaScript pages. [158]
• You cannot use the compact user bar any more. [159]
• You can change your options to see bigger images. [160]
• You can watch short videos about how to use VisualEditor. [161]
• You can now edit pages linked in "what links here" more easily. [162]

Problems

• There was a problem with some Lua modules on July 22 and 23. Some pages using them did not list them in "what links here". You can fix those pages with a null edit: edit and save the page without making any change.
• There was a problem with the abuse filter page on big wikis on July 23. It was due to a code error. [163]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from July 28. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from July 29. It will be on all Wikipedias from July 30 (calendar).
• JavaScript authors: You cannot use wgNoticeUserData to get edit counts anymore. [164]

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on July 28 at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:05, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Help

Hi Mandruss. If you have any spare time, I could really use your help at Shooting of Samuel DuBose. I'm fending off original research, bad style edits and unsourced content. Thanks for your consideration.- MrX 16:18, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

@MrX: Knowing nothing about the subject, it might take me awhile to get up to speed, but I'll do what I can. ―Mandruss ☎ 16:20, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks very much. I appreciate any help I can get.- MrX 16:25, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Microsoft Surface

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Microsoft Surface. Legobot (talk) 00:04, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Sandra Bland

Hi Mandruss, curious why the revert on Black Lives Matter? John_Abbe (talk) 14:40, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

@John Abbe: The sentence begins, "Some of the unarmed African-Americans who died at the hands of law enforcement ...". "Died at the hands of" means "killed by", at least in the U.S. An autopsy has ruled Bland's death a suicide, and it stated that there is no evidence of foul play. While there are still some investigations underway, all existing evidence points to suicide and we cannot say that she was killed by law enforcement at this time. Therefore she can't be in that sentence. However, she remains listed in the table of BLM protests in that article. ―Mandruss ☎ 16:03, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Sandra Bland died in their care, in their custody, in their hands. Allegations (talk) 21:15, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Shooting of Samuel DuBose

You have not used the Talk page to discuss your reversion of my edit. Please do not "warn" me to engage in behavior you do not, as that is counterproductive, un-constructive, passive-aggressive and hypocritical. Allegations (talk) 21:13, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Shooting of Samuel DuBose talk

Neither you or I are the subject of the article. The contest is in content, not me and you. Please fix the Shooting of Samuel DuBose talk to reflect the correct focus, the article or subject matter thereof. Thank you. Allegations (talk) 00:56, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

 Done ―Mandruss ☎ 00:58, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Well I struck the beginning comments. Are you referring to the section heading as well? I couldn't think of a better heading that concisely describes the issue at hand. "Lead" would not be very descriptive. We are the two parties in the content dispute, hence that heading. I think you're reading it as a statement of a personal conflict, which is not how it was intended nor how others will interpret it. It's the Wikipedia equivalent of Roe v. Wade. ―Mandruss ☎ 01:19, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-32

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• The ContentTranslation extension has been updated:
  • You can now type in list paragraphs on wikis with right-to-left scripts. [165]
  • Some user interface updates changed how details in the ContentTranslation extension look. [166] [167] [168] [169]
• The error page you see when the sites are not working is now simpler and easier to read. It also shows the Wikimedia logo. [170]
• MediaWiki now supports redirects for CSS pages. [171]
• Bots can't guess captchas unlimited times anymore. [172]

Problems

• There was a problem with thumbnails on wikis with local images on July 24 and 25. It was due to a code error. [173]
• We can't search by file type on Wikimedia wikis now. [174]

Changes this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from August 4. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from August 5. It will be on all Wikipedias from August 6 (calendar).

Meetings

• You can join the next meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on August 4 at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.

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15:51, 3 August 2015 (UTC)