User talk:Kudpung/Archive May 2011

hi from St. Mary's Residential Central School, Kollam (Quilon)

Hi

I have created a page for my school i have studied St. Mary's Residential Central School, Kollam (Quilon).it seems you have added "This article is written like an advertisement".please explain what is wrong with this page.if you can correct the article please do so.there is a link mentioned below use link as reference.please help me add a picture on the document.i will send logo of school and pics.please help me out

Bevin —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bevindcruz (talk • contribs) 05:31, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi. There is very little information in the article about the school and that's why it looks like an entry in a directory web site. The best advice I can give you is to go to the school project page at WP:WPSCH and look at some of the school articles that are listed as Good Articles, or Featured Articles. The school article guideline at WP:WPSCH/AG will give you a lot more help too. Bear in mind however, that primary schools, middle schools and other schools that do not provide education to High School level Grade 12 (18 years old) are rarely notable enough for a Wikipedia article. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:41, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Josh Eastman articles

These pages were originally from User:Josheastman who is now blocked. See the talk page of that user for the activity regarding recreating the page. There seems to already be a SPI entry filed, but the entry is blank. Zell65 (talk) 06:29, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Looks as if another admin has deleted it anyway. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:33, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm sure by now the person responsible has given up, and this will all just blow over. Zell65 (talk) 06:36, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

No sooner than I said that and here we go again: JO aka Josh Eastman. Different user name this time too. Zell65 (talk) 06:40, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

I couldn't figure out from the logs who filed that blank SPI. As you know more about it all than I do, would you like to get it together and file a new SPI? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:43, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I see User:JOfandontmesswithme has already been blocked. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:47, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

createangelos rfa

Hi,

Yes, you or Eagle (the other contributor to my rfa request page) can delete my rfa request page (I never transcluded it). But this means there is some stuff I need done by admins or advice and you may have incurred a responsibility in this regard. In particular I want to create something like a disambiguation page about the world court of human rights.

There exist a few world courts of human rights, a student court in the UN, and a site that objected to a transfer of forests from public ownership in the uk, and others.

The issue is, I'm not sure if a disabmiguation is the right page to have. The world court of human rights is essentially already a wiki. Curious about your opinion on this and I'm putting a similar msg on Eagle's talk page. Either you or that person can pls delete my rfa request. Createangelos (talk) 18:08, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Travelmed.gr

Hello, Last friday, I have tried to create a wiki page for the company that i work for, Travelmed (http://www.travelmed.gr). It is an international company based in Greece and with other offices in Serbia, Cyprus, Athens, Corfu, Rumania and soon to be Poland. I have kept the information that I put on the wiki page strictly facts from the official websites etc. and only put links in the bottom under the link header. It said you have removed my article due to promotion / advertising, while this was not my objective. I would like to know what I could do to get my companies' wikipedia page online, what I had done wrong. Thank you for your time, Regards, Roger Verhees from Travelmed.gr

Hi Roger. The first and most common reason why articles get deleted is because people did not read the instructions first. There is a misunderstanding, perhaps conveyed by our very early slogan 'The encyclopedia that anyone can edit', that Wikipedia is indeed a web site where anyone can write anything, but the two phrases have very different semantics. Anyone can edit, as long as they stay within the rules and guidelines. Several experienced editors and administrators have decided that the article that you and your staff twice posted here may not be allowed to stay. This is nothing personal against your company - indeed, we've never heard of it. Your company fails to meet inclusion criteria on several counts, in addition to which, if you and your staff are writing about your company and claiming it to be the largest of its kind, then it is indeed promotional, and the intention is to increase the company's web presence. Encyclopedias are written by people who are independent of the subject and who have nothing to gain by its inclusion. All claims must be supported by established, independent third party sources that also clearly assert why your company is notable enough to be in the encyclopedia. The bottom line is that Wikipedia is unfortunately not another directory style website that all companies can join. It's operated by volunteers and owned by a non-profit foundation, and cannot be used in a way that will advance the development of other organisations. Do please read this information sheet: Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations, and accept our regrets at not being able to entertain you request at this time. Regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:54, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

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The Signpost: 2 May 2011

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Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 23:09, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

RfA reform

Hi SilkTork. I've not seen you comment here yet. It might not be your specific area of interest, but I feel you would have a lot to offer. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:26, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I will take a closer look when I get some time. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. SilkTork *^YES! 23:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I'll try to get around to looking over the next few days. SilkTork *^YES! 22:55, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Great project. Yes, I'll help out where I can. SilkTork *^YES! 09:46, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

GOCE drive newsletter

The Guild of Copy Editors – May 2011 Backlog Elimination Drive The Guild of Copy Editors invite you to participate in the May 2011 Backlog Elimination Drive, a month-long effort to reduce the backlog of articles that require copy-editing. The drive began on May 1 at 00:00 (UTC) and will end on May 31 at 23:59 (UTC). The goals of this backlog elimination drive are to eliminate as many articles as possible from the 2009 backlog and to reduce the overall backlog by 15%. ! NEW ! In an effort to encourage the final elimination of all 2009 articles, we will be tracking them on the leaderboard for this drive. Awards and barnstars A range of barnstars will be awarded to active participants. Some are exclusive to GOCE drives. More information on awards can be found on the main drive page. We look forward to meeting you on the drive! Your GOCE coordinators: SMasters, Diannaa, Tea with toast, Chaosdruid, and Torchiest

You are receiving a copy of this newsletter as you are a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, or have participated in one of our drives. If you do not wish to receive future newsletters, please add you name here. Sent on behalf of the Guild of Copy Editors using AWB on 07:42, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Recent message about external links

Hi, Thanks for getting in touch about the link I recently added to the Redditch page. I am new to editing Wikipedia, so appreciate the feedback. That said, I'm a bit confused as Rightmove is the accepted defacto standard in the UK, so linking to a list of estate agents on there seemed like a useful thing to do? Please advise! Martin AYocal (talk) 12:43, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi Martin. I agree that a lot about Wikipedia is confusing to newcomers. Put in a nutshell, we just don't allow commercial links of any kind, unless they drectly support the verifiability of a specific item in an article - and this one doesn't. If you follow the links I put in my message to you on your talk page, you'll find more in-depth explanations and lots of tips on how things work here. There are probably a few more older rogue links on the Redditch page but I've been busy working on the Malvern pages and may not have noticed. I hope you'll continue to contribute to Wikipedua, and again, don't hesitate to ask me if you would like anything else explained. Regards, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:16, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Your Guide to Thai Culture

Please see if we can use Isaan Heartland. Taken from: Thailand: Traits and Treasures, National Identity Board, ©2005 by Office of The Permanent Secretary, The Prime Minister’s Office, ISBN 974-9771-52-4. Pawyilee (talk) 13:12, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

The Your Guide to Thai Culture site appears to be illegally using wholesale copied chunks from the book - which of course we can't do. Depends what you want to use. You can write your own text and cite the book as your WP:RS, but if it's for the Isan article, if it ever gets its WP:FA status back you'll need to cite the page number(s). On another note, I'm going to Nonk Khai on Sunday (but only to the city), so if you want me to take some photos for you, do let me know. Take care, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:41, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Your Guide also asks that you not copy it. The nearest copy of Thailand: Traits and Treasures seems to be in Singapore, but I'll make a note to ask the next time at at SEED. Pix of the the Garden of Sorrows (สวนโศกเศร้า) entrance would be nice addition, as well as of the nearby entrance to Wat Angkhan (วัดอังคาร) BTW, what language is being used in the post below? --Pawyilee (talk)

Uhm... English? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:18, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

That explains though not clarifies it: I'm from the wrong side of the pond! I wish you would replace the present pix of Old Nong Khai City Hall at both Nong Khai and Haw Wars, as I was taking a picture of the fountain and the Old Nong Khai City Hall just happened to be in the background. I don't have any at all of the newer monument behind the Police Barracks. --Pawyilee (talk) 13:44, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

It's multicultural Wikipedia adminspeak - somewhere around the middle of the pond I guess. I'm only doing a border run, so I'll see what I can do about the pix. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:58, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank the heavens that's over!

Ugh... if a generally positive RfA can be that draining, I dread to think what a negative response would feel like. Some sort of pre-nom screening/review needs to be brought in to prevent potential candidates from getting hit with RfAs like this.

Thanks for the support... there's an anti thankspam box on my talk page Catfish Jim & the soapdish 09:33, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I can understand your relief, although ut was pretty clear you would pass. You won't believe what a hell week my own recent RfA was. Good luck and watch out for the changes in Twinkle's CSD dropdown that are set for admins at immediate delete by default, instead of just CSD tag. See you atWP:RFA2011. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jihadi tourism

I would value your input here, whatever your opinion may be. Best,4meter4 (talk) 04:40, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. Well, I spent a lot of time reading the article, and the debate, and looking at the refs. 8 to 5 for keeping per pure !votes so far, but at the moment, on the strength of the comments, the deleters have some very strong arguments and I see no real consensus emerging yet. Depends if consensus defines this article as about a neologism, Jihadi tourism, or anything else. The article itself has no clear focus; it starts off as would it be about a neologism, but seems to mutate into an article about meeting places where the mujahideen gather to plan terrorism attacks. However, a closer look at the actual lexical definitions of the Arabic word jihad and the semantics of its various uses, might provide enough background to sway the AfD either way if done convincingly. Several of the refs use the term, but that does not make it any more a neologism than, say, 'sex tourism' to Pattaya, or 'pedo tourism' to Pnom Phen, or 'Grand Prix tourism' for the followers of Formula 1, or the 'gastro tourism' on the French food trail. Very controversial - I think I have to stay out of this one and I certainly wouldn't like to be in the shoes of the admin who closes it. I'll continue to watch it though for my own education. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:31, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome, and I completely understand your viewpoint. Thanks for taking the time to look.4meter4 (talk) 10:54, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I see it defaulted to 'keep' per no consensus. I guessed it would. I said I'd stay out of it and I did, but if it's any consolation, I would have been certainly against keeping it as a neologism. Something else maybe. You should stick to opera - it's what you do best, and I'll go back to my schools ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:10, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I am happy to get back to less contentious articles.4meter4 (talk) 15:17, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Please help assess articles for Public Policy Initiative research

Hi Kudpung/Archive May 2011,

Your work as an Online Ambassador is making a big contribution to Wikipedia. Right now, we're trying to measure just how much student work improves the quality of Wikipedia. If you'd like contribute to this research and get a firsthand look at the quality improvement that is happening through the project, please sign up to assess articles. Assessment is happening now, just use the quantitative metric and start assessing! Your help would be hugely appreciated!

Thank you, ARoth (Public Policy Initiative) (talk) 17:12, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

kindly provide the contents to improve

Pls provide contents of History of Chandigarh to improve. Mahesh Kumar Yadav  talk 11:22, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

I suggest you get the contents where you took them from originally. However, please do not use this copyrighted material on Wikipedia - it will be deleted again. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:27, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

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Contested proposed deletion of Mirrors (band)

Hello. I deprodded this. It seems clear that the article's creator doesn't understand the criteria for sources being cited in articles. As you'll see at Talk:Mirrors (band), good sources exist that could be cited in the article. These were easy to find from a Google search, and it would perhaps have been helpful if you had done a quick search yourself before proposing deletion as it appears that the article's creator simply needs pointing in the right direction. Thanks.--Michig (talk) 19:57, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

PMFJI, but...is it now policy that people should just create articles and leave that awful messy business of adding sources to others? I mean, is our default position that everything that could be notable belongs here whether or not anyone has taken the time to actually demonstrate it?  Frank  |  talk  20:15, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

You could try reading WP:BITE for starters Frank - we can't expect new editors to come along here and now how to write articles that meet the criteria that may be well-known to more experienced editors. When a quick search demonstrates that that the band are notable, it doesn't seem unreasonable expectation to expect that before proposing an article for deletion, and yes, we should keep and improve articles on notable subjects. We should also try to encourage new editors who are making constructive contributions. My suggestion above was to be a little more cautious with new editors and article deletion - your interpretation of it is a little overdramatic, don't you think? --Michig (talk) 20:45, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi Michig. I appreciate your concern and your work at ARS, but sometimes we have to look at the bigger picture. I can't pretend that I did an hour long search for sources, but it took me ages already to check through all the worthless refs (on two separate occasions), and the first 3 or 4 pages of Google revealed nothing. There are limits to what experienced editors whose focus is generally elsewhere can be expected to do 'BEFORE' PRODing a month old stub of an SPA who has been been 'pointed in the right direction' to exhaustion, not only for this, but for other articles and files - let's not ignore WP:BURDEN. Even quicker than your Google search, a study of the article history and User talk:RonBuczko would have revealed that we have a problem contributor who refuses to take any hints - User:Transporterman did his best too. Adding the refs you found to the article would not have taken longer than adding them to the talk page. The PROD rationale was: Maintenance templates removed by creator. References are to press releases, album previews, and interviews. No reliable third party press coverage. Does not meet criteria at WP:BAND. RonBuczko has been around Wikipedia for over 4 years even if he has only edited it 161 times - that's plenty of time to learn the ropes and to have become a regular editor if he had wanted to. With all due respect, emphasis of BITE is therefore probably not apt in this particular instance; besides which, PROD is cheap, can easily be refunded, 'prods' people into action, and does not need to attract the same drama as would a misplaced CSD or AfD.
The article still has no RS, and the next step will probably be CSD (again) or AfD when another patroller or admin comes across it and checks the content of the bloated list of empty refs. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:55, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I'm not WP:BITEing anyone. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that if a new editor wants to create an article, s/he should take the time to learn what is expected. We have WP:INCUBATE and WP:FIRST as starters; there are other links to help out. There's a certain level of knowledge associated with doing many, many things in life...why should Wikipedia be different? Just because anyone (more or less) can edit Wikipedia doesn't mean that everyone should...and most certainly doesn't mean that new editors should start right in on creating articles. There's nothing bitey about that. If an article doesn't meet criteria, it doesn't meet criteria - regardless of the experience level of the editor who created it. Nominating an article for deletion - CSD, PROD, or AfD - is not a comment on a particular editor; rather, it's a comment on the article itself. To assume otherwise is against the spirit under which we operate.  Frank  |  talk  02:57, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Right of course Frank, but in your/our defence, RonBuczko is not new, and has also not reacted to the many templates on his tp. That's the stage where regular editors can rightly consider whether they want to dedicate more time to an article where the creator won't/can't, or move on to more pressing things like answering genuine enquiries for help from contributors who are committed to producing quality articles. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:09, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

The editor in question has made a handful of edits in the past and started editing again less than a month ago. Warnings started appearing on his talk page less than a month ago. Adding the refs to the article would have taken longer than adding them to the talk page, as it would have involved adding and altering text and then citing those sources, which I would have preferred the article's author to do - they might have learned something that would help in the future. We have a choice of how helpful we are towards inexperienced editors. Nominating articles for deletion may not be a comment on a particular editor but it does have an effect on retaining new editors. It's your choice at the end of the day.

Enough though I think - I left a courtesy note about a deprodding, and that's all - if other people want to drag the discussion into something more they can do it without me. --Michig (talk) 06:08, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

At least you have understood why I couldn't be bothered to do more either. Nevertheless, your 'courtesy' note came across almost as a 'don't tag the regulars' type criticism - the sort of thing that could motivate an established editor to retire. I wonder what's worse: losing established editors, or biting one or two (which hasn't been done) who clearly and decidedly have no intention whatsoever of becoming regular editors. 'Nuf said. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:27, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Please cut out the drama, it's now getting silly.--Michig (talk) 06:37, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi all, sorry for being such a pain at the moment when it comes to setting up these articles about Mirrors. Although I've been registered for quite a while at Wiki, I'm still fairly new when it comes to setting up new articles. I was lead to believe that I did quite ok until I saw this string of messages :) I will do some more research and adjust the references asap and make sure that not all of them point to the artist's official website. But please note that some information is only available on their website. I however do not understand why this page was nominated for Deletion because of incorrect refs, whereas I've seen numerous articles without refs for years or refs to the artist's website and they still exist today. Is this because the Mirrors article is fairly new and thus moderated actively? User:RonBuczko 10:44, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for chiming in. The page was nominated for deletion for lack of proven notability and it may still be very hard to prove. The Wikipedia golden rule is verifiability, not truth so even if the band were to have charted at No.1 for weeks and had several golds and platinums over a period of 10 years, if nothing has been written about it in the traditional mainstream press such as national daily newspapers, quality magazines, supplements, or the highly respected NME, or highly regarded, stable web sites, then there won't be an article about it. The easiest thing to do is to refer to all the links to policy that you have been given many times over. It will avoid us having to repeat what's already written. Please be assured that you can't use any of the references you supplied, unless they support information already sourced to truly independent, third party quality sources as explained in the many links you have been given to policy. It may be true that other articles are poorly referenced. They are probably ones that slipped through the net before Wikipedia had teams of volunteers monitoring all new articles within seconds of their being posted, but the authors will be notified eventually and if they don't respond the articles will be deleted within seven days. We have a rule that that govern this too at WP:OTHERSTUFF. The bottom line is, that all articles must be about notable subjects, and that notability must be proven, and a band's own web site, blog, Press release, concert poster, tour dates, FaceBook, or Twitter, are not acceptable. The criteria are at WP:BAND. Michig has kindly unearthed some refs that might just pass notability, and he has placed them on the article talk page for you. Now, as I was the one who stirred this all up and got the blame for just doing my job, please accept my offer of help - if you get stuck, just come back here, and we'll try to sort it out. I'm not guaranteeing anything, but Michig's sources might just do the trick once you have entered them on the article page. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:17, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Kudpung. Lesson learned! Just updated the band page with some references to NME, The Guardian, Drowned in Sound and more as proposed by Michig. I might do some more research and see if I can add some more. Same for the Mirrors sub pages. So I can potentially remove all the 'non-important' references such as the press releases or any unknown websites with reviews, leaving some quotes or facts without a reference, and the article would still be accepted?User:RonBuczko 11:33, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

The Independent ref asserts notability and confirms the style connection to Krafwerk. The Guardian article is very good because it is a third-party piece in a quality paper, and is entirely about the band; it is significant coverage. I don't know about ThisIsFakedDIY - it looks like a blog to me, but if it is an editorial conteolled blog of a printed periodical, it's OK. For some reason I can't connect to DrownedInSound from here (I live in Thailand), but Michig is an admin too, so if he reccommends it, it's probably fine. Do cut down significantly on the other sources especially those produced by the band themselves. This is logical, because anyone can write anything they like about themselves that might not be strictly true, and that wouldn't pass muster for an encyclopedia. What they say about their own style is probably fine to use, but if theirs were the only source for example, that 30,000 people attended their concert at a venue in Manchester, then an independent source would be needed to back up such a claim. You now need to take a very close look at the criteria at WP:BAND, such as for example, charting nationally in the UK (and you would need to cite a source for that too), and check off the things on the criteria list that are met. Hope this helps. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:26, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Radha Madhav Dham

Can you step in please - User_talk:Ism_schism#Radha_Madhav_Dham. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:24, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Please direct your comments to the talk page of Radha Madhav Dham. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 03:41, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I've offered some advice here and here. If discussion still does not improve the situation, you might wish to ask for more advice at one of our noticeboards - WP:EAR would be a good place to start, but do give the article talk page a while to develop first before escalating, and whatever happens, don't fall into the rather easy trap of 3rr edit warring yourself. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:54, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I think discussion on the talk page is best for now. Thanks again. Ism schism (talk) 04:01, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

My comment above was addressed at NeilN because he started the discussion here. Nevertheless, I appreciate that you understand that the same advice is intended for you both, and in the best of good faith. Now that the business at AfD is concluded, unless there is clear violation of policy, I wish to remain as neutral as possible in regards to any editing disputes in areas where I am not a subject expert. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:09, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

User talk:Jimbo Wales#Revisiting the reform of RfA

Hi Kudpung, are you aware of this?

Catfish Jim & the soapdish 13:01, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Been following it since day 1 actually. Basically the same perennial TL;DR bar-stool discussion as WT:RfA - which BTW is now all but dead. Personally, I think my name is known enough, so even if I had something to say, I don't want my signature on it. Put some plugs in for the project if you like, it wouldn't hurt, but Jim knows all about our project already even if the others don't. However, what we want is active members, not ones that come just to continue their bleating in another venue. Thing is, those who shout loudest have never been through the hell, fire, and brimstone of RfA - kinda like the non players who cuss the the players from the sidelines at the soccer match. In my experience, those who shout loudest are:

• Those who complain that nothing gets done, but aren't prepared to roll their sleeves up.
• Those who hope that by the time they want to run we will have made it easier for them.
• Those who try to look clever by throwing in (what they think are) witty comments, but who don't offer any intelligent solutions.
• Those who have got mud in their faces already from what we have been saying in general about !voters and questioners.
• Those who just like to shout loud.

--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:30, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Aghet – Ein Völkermord

Hi. Are you interested in translating the article on the award-winning 2010 documentary film on the Armenian Genocide of 1915? In case you are, please go the talk page to coordinate the effort as I've also asked other editors (hope you understand). Gun Powder Ma (talk) 14:43, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Feedback on bot submitting users to RFP/A

Hi Kudpung, as you are one of our foremost experts on NPP, I thought I would bring this to your attention. We are working to get users automatically submitted for autopatrol rights. NoomBot is in a trial now, filtering out people on this list using these criteria. I think your experience would be quite helpful and I'm hoping you might provide some feedback or suggestions on NoomBot's BRFA. Thanks. - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 17:09, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't say I am one of our foremost experts on NPP, I'm just one of several editors who have spent nearly 6 months analysing the situation and trying to sort the mess out that it has got into. FWIW, I will oppose quite strongly in principle, any motion to automatically accord any rights at Wikipedia. The danger being, IMO, that with 'precedent creep' that's what could be proposed for RfA. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:27, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I have addressed this bot proposal at Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 41/Archives/ 24#Automate submissions for Autopatrol right. My main concerns are that insufficient research has been made to demonstrate a need for it, and that the list it will produce will simply create more work for admins rather than any relief for NPP. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:09, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, Kudpung. I'm not certain that I'm following you. Do you think the bot should not submit users to WP:RFP/A for admin review? Do you think it's better to let admins volunteer like we were before? - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 02:01, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

With all due respect, I thought I had made that perfectly clear both in my comments above and in my albeit rambling speech which starts with 'Strong oppose'. Admin HJ Mitchel has clearly demonstrated that the bot submissions are returning far too many false positives, making him a lot of extra work, and one user in Good Faith has produced similar extra work, making me a lot of extra work. In its present form, I am opposed to automatic generation of the list because the community does have a dwindling user base of sysops who can absorb the extra work for them that your proposals will incur. Autopatrolled should not be regarded as an award for good service (it isn't), nor should it be a licence to go on a creationitis spree. If it is possible, perhaps you could look into adding some more criteria to the bot such as for example,

• ignoring users whose articles have a stub tag
• ignoring users whose very short articles do not have a stub tag
• ignoring users whose articles have naked URLs in the ref and EL sections
• ignoring users who have not added project templates to the articles' talk pages
• ignoring users whose articles have a 'Please expand from foreign Wiki article' tag on them.
• ignoring users whose articles do not have a page top tag, but which have inline and/or section tags.
• ignoring users who do not have reviewer rights (which, BTW, were also handed out indiscriminately)
• ignoring users who do not have rollback rights.
• ignoring users who have not edited during the last 60 days.
• ignoring users who not only have CSD, PROD, or AfD notices on their talk pages, but who also have file notification messages, and any other uw templates whatsoever.

If all that could be incorporated, and new trials return only 1 or 2% false positives, then the bot project could be partially viable. It still does not however, address the extra work for which more active admins will be needed - and to be quite honest, I (and perhaps many others) did not ask for the sysop tool set to do this kind of routine work.

Also, for some strange reason, some sysops do not have autopatrolled rights, although I assumed this to be be bundled with adminship.

If anything else is not clear please do not hesitate to ask. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:09, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I will ask for the additional criteria. - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 03:20, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

In a nutshell, ignoring users who have not addressed all the points required in these recommendations, and a bit more. Hope all this helps - please be sure to follow up on all the blue links. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:28, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

BTW, our NPPers are not in the slightest bit overworked at all, most of them are young newbies who believe the best way to contribute is to head straight for a semi admin task without any experience whatsoever of WP:DELETION, or any other kind of maintenance tagging or minor article improvement (Snottywong and I have done the research). You could consider helping by making proposals to turn NPP into a right to be accorded to editors who at least have some clue - I feel that this is a more pressing issue. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:50, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback, Kudpung. I appreciate you taking the time to provide your input. Yep, I followed up on all the blue links, including your RfA and the other. Yeah, I saw the table Snotty made of patrols vs. edit count with his bot, and I agree with you that patrolling new pages should be a right and only done by those that are trained per the additions Snotty made to WP:NPP with your input. I also agree that is much more pressing of an issue. Unfortunately, not many people agree with us. I'm thinking about that issue too. I'll ask for your input before I propose anything. Thanks again for the help. - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 05:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Kudpung, are you happy to let the bot run as-is for the moment? I'm more than happy to add the additional criteria, I'm just a little short on time at the moment. If not, I'm happy to give the code to anyone else or wait until I have enough time to make the changes. Noom _talk ^stalk 12:54, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't doubt the good faith with which this bot project was started, but I'm one admin already who has now lost interest in allocating user rights because of it. I would say wait and see how other admins cope with the extra workload and see how long it takes them to clear the backlog it has created, before doing any further development on it and running it again. I'm afraid I don't know anything about writing bots at all, so I don't know if it's at all possible to make regex that address all the criteria I listed above. The bot will always return some false positives, and my concern is that admins will be lured into believing they won't have to do so much manual checking before pressing the rights button. There's no panic - according autopat rights has far less impact on NPP than we've been led to believe. NPP is fraught with many problems, but this isn't one of them. If you're really concerned about developing the bot, do have a word with Snottywong - he now also has a ts account. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:07, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

If it's a problem, I can tone down the amount the bot submits. At the moment, it adds more when there are less than 20 non-open requests, but I can lessen it if the workload is too high. I'm pretty sure I can do all the criteria you requested, and I think I will make an effort to finish coding it before an extended trial. Thanks for the input, Noom _talk ^stalk 15:08, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

oops

• I just db-authored my misnamed template... after creating one with the proper name..• Ling.Nut (talk) 12:04, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Ah,it was you was it? Got a ec when I was trying to move it for you. I may have reverted it now to a version without your db-auth. Let me know. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:14, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

OK , done, deleted (for some odd reason, that ec froze Firefox). If you make a mistake like that again, the solution is simple: just move it. No need to make again and delete the old one. You had simply forgotten the 'Wikipedia:' prefix. Take care :) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:18, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I tried moving it first, but got some sort of a "blacklist" error I'd never seen before... • Ling.Nut (talk) 12:21, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Nothing to worry about - probably a database glitch. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:28, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Re: User:Crosstemplejay

Hello. You have a new message at Feezo's talk page. Hello. You have a new message at Feezo's talk page. Hello. You have a new message at Feezo's talk page.

Crosstemplejay has responded to the specific issues raised in the autopatroller request; your input is welcome. Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 23:18, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Feezo has given you a cookie! Cookies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. You can Spread the "WikiLove" by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.

For 'watching the watcher' at Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Autopatrolled and following up on the edit conflict. Cheers :)

By the way, I saw you oppose the bot adding requests? I missed the debate on this, but it seems like a good idea.

To spread the goodness of cookies, you can add {{subst:Cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat this cookie on the giver's talk page with {{subst:munch}}!

Thanks Feezo, the cookie arrived exactly at the same moment my wife brought me a cup of tea! I caught the debate too late and they had already done the first bot run. I left quite a speech against it, and I was the only opposer - although there never was much of a debate about it, kind of no real consensus. See the thread above at User talk:Kudpung#Feedback on bot submitting users to RFP/A and follow the links. The main issue is that what little pressure it relieves of the NPPers, and that really is not much if anything at all, it shifts the work load to the admins who now have to plough through all these bot requests that take 10 - 15 minutes each if they are done properly - I always random sample at least 10% of the creations and go way back in the talk page archives, and check user logs. I already did some checking and found the bot is returning far too many false positives. When I first got the mop, I found it fun to accord rights, but now I'd rather stick to my usual stuff sorting out contentious deletions and smelly socks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:44, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Essay

It looks good. ceranthor 18:56, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Dropping by to say the same. Fantastic, comprehensive guide for anyone considering an RfA. I'll leave some actually-constructive feedback on the talk page a bit later, but just wanted to say excellent job overall. Swarm ^X 01:13, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Appreciate Your Contributions......!!!

Dear Brother,

How are you doing today, I hope you would be good, honestly again I was looking at your profile and really appreciate your work, I hope I can be at your place some day therefore I am keep editing Wikipedia as much as I can as your advised me earlier, Kindly keep in touch and review my articles and If I am eligible award me some Barnstars, as your visited India, Try to visit Pakistan I will more than happy to greet you here, These days I am working on University of Karachi Project where I am creating articles related to University of Karachi. --Faizanalivarya (talk) 03:16, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Kudpung. You have new messages at Guerillero's talk page.
Message added 04:37, 18 May 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

The faulty connection issues are effecting me here in the states Guerillero | My Talk 04:37, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply and sorry I had to withdraw from your project. I am just too cynical to be an effective member. --Guerillero | My Talk 04:48, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Creating new page

I am contacting you because I am currently interning with a volunteer organization and am interesting in creating a Wikipedia page for them. However in reading over the different guidlines for creating a page, notability for organizations and citation criteria, I was wondering if there is any additional information in creating it that I should stray away from that may have been terms for deletion in other cases. I would greatly appreciate it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amg921 (talk • contribs) 10:01, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi. (All the blue words are links for you to follow). If you are working for, with, or on behalf of a subject about which you intend to create a Wikipedia page, you must read our policy on Conflict of Interest first. This does not mean however, that you are completely prohibited from writing that article. The essential aspects to be borne in mind are notability which will be described in more detail in the policy on companies and organisations, and the importance of substantiating any information that makes a claim to notability by providing reliable sources that can be verified. Your text must be absolutely free of any tone that could be considered promotional, broadly construed - remember that Wikipedia is not a B2B directory. If you tell me the name of the organisation, I should be able to let you know very quickly if it is likely to pass our inclusion criteria. I would then strongly recommend that you create the article on a sub page in your Wikipedia user space first, such as at User:Amg921/name of article (draft) (replace name of article with the intended article name, then click the red link to start the page in edit mode) and then asking me to review it for you before posting it to a live page. Please don't hesitate to contact me again for any further help or information. (Please remember to sign your posts). Regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:35, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much. But as I am not directly affliated with the organization, I do not feel that it would fall in the COI policy restrictions when reviewing it. I intended for it to be written from a neutral standpoint so that others who were not aware of what they were could search for it, for content and not promotion. I will look into creating a draft page for you to look at as well and will contact you with any questions. Amg921 (talk) 12:09, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Here is one Wikipedia page I am thinking about adding; if you could please take a look at the draft page I would appreciate any suggestions before publishing! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Amg921/Armenian_Volunteer_Corps_(AVC)_(draft)

Amg921 (talk) 06:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi. I've had a look. You'll need to remove the list of names of executives per WP:BLP - they are not notable. You must check the sources you provided again to ensure that they are of the kind requested at WP:RS. Even if the organisation were world renowned (which it isn't), it would still need notabililty establishing per WP:ORG, and impeccable WP:RS references before it can be included in the encyclopedia. Have there been any TV documentaries dedicated to it? Or articles in leading newspapers? Sources that only confirm the organisation's existence are not sufficient. You also need to drastically prune the list of external links. per WP:EL. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:58, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Is there any way you could look at the draft page again. I have made some changes and added notable external references. I do however, have a question regarding the ones from previously as ell. I understand that they are not global publications, but they are notable in Armenia, where the organization is based, as well as globally. Which of the external links that are now included would you consider removing? I would like to know prior to publication that I have everything up to par with the wikipedia criteria. Thank you again. Amg921 (talk) 09:34, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

There's no way I can vouch for Armenian publications, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Other reviewers might see it differently, but it's a risk worth taking. The external links are just too many and give the impression of trying to be promotional. Try to whittle them down to the three most relevant ones. Remember that Wikipedia articles are informative without being allowed to be confused as a medium for attracting traffic to your sites or your organisation. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:42, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Kudpung. You have new messages at HelloAnnyong's talk page.
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AfD: Cort Webber and Bobby "Fatboy" Roberts

This is a courtesy notice given your prior involvement with Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cort and Fatboy or its deletion review (Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 April 10) that these related articles are currently listed at AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cort Webber. As attribution issues are involved, closure of this current AfD may result in the restoration of the earlier article, as a list of contributors would be necessary if the articles are retained. Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:53, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

HI. This is the first time I've come across a case like this, it must be fairly rare. So with all due respects, I think I'll recuse and wait for the community to decide - then I'll know what to do in the future. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:19, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

It's rare, all right. :) It's the first time I've ever seen this happen with an article that was AfDed where I didn't feel the new article was subject to WP:CSD#G4. Procedural AfD seemed like the best approach. Of course, the notice is just a courtesy; there's no obligation to take any kind of action. :D --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:11, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Re:Gangsta University

You have a reply on my talk page. Notifying just in case if you are not watching. Thanks --is nafSadh nosy? 18:48, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Susan A. McLean

Hi Kudpung,

I was trying to make an informational Wikipedia page for the Executive Director of a nonprofit, but you deleted it. May I ask why? How can I go about fixing the page?

Thank you! LitPartNYC —Preceding unsigned comment added by LitPartNYC (talk • contribs) 18:44, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is the encyclopedia anyone can edit, but unfortunately the down side is that we have some complex rules, and the encylopedia is not just another B2B directory or social networking site. Please now read all the explanations that were provided already on your talk page, and follow the links (blue words) for more detailed explanations before doing anything else. The short answer is that you should not be creating or editing articles in which you are associated with the subject in any way, and you may not under any circumstances use material copied fro other web sites. The article appeared to be for the purpose of promoting a non notable company or organisation through a business profile of one of its employees - non profit organisations provide services and receive funds and are not exempt from Wikipedia's strict rules against advertising. If you feel that this subject can meet all the requirements for notability, especially for biographies in particular those about living persons, the claims must then be supported by refrenced sources to extensive coverage in the quality press. You may then wish to start a new draft of an article in your user space. It can then be reviewed by me or another editor before it is moved to our public pages. Please put new messages (see the instructions at the top of talk pages) at the bottom of talk pages, and remember to sign them. Thanks. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 19:40, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Idumea (band)

I am writing in regards to your recent deletion of my Wiki page, Idumea (band). I was under the impression that I had followed Wikipedia's guidelines for making a page. Obviously, that was not the case. Could you please enlighten me on what exactly I did wrong, so I can avoid doing the same in the future. I also apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. Thank you for your attention as regarding this matter. Neuroticguru (talk) 21:32, 18 May 2011 (UTC)Neuroticguru

Hi. Yes, I'm sorry I had to delete your page. It had 2 major contraventions to our policy: The text was taken straight from a website, and no references were provided that assert and prove notability. Wikipedia is the encyclopedia anyone can edit, but unfortunately the down side is that we have some complex rules. Please now read all the explanations that were provided already on your talk page, and follow the links (blue words) for more detailed explanations before doing anything else. The short answer is that you may not under any circumstances use material copied from other web sites. The article appeared to be for the purpose of promoting an apparently non notable band or musician. If you feel that this subject can meet all the requirements for notability, especially for bands and musicians , the claims must then be supported by referenced sources to extensive coverage in the quality press. You may then wish to start a new draft of an article in your user space. It can then be reviewed by me or another editor before it is moved to our public pages. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 22:10, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Aftermath of Jack and Jill School et al

I'm sorry for having AfDed them and causing all the commotion. What to do with the elementary schools now? Will it be alright to just redirect them? Moray An Par (talk) 09:12, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

We all make mistakes ;) Redirect the ones that can be. PROD the ones I listed as 'no indication' with a rationale such as 'No indication of notability or type of school' after removing any mission statements and non encyclopedic blurb to reduce them to stubs, and then don't bother looking for any more. A greater service to schools would be to work towards getting some of the ones listed at WP:WPSCH up to Good Article status. Some of them don't need a lot of work to get there. Don't hesitate to ask me for any advice. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

It's done. Moray An Par (talk) 03:06, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Feedback

Hello, Kudpung. You have new messages at MikeBeckett's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

User:MikeBeckett Please do say 'Hi!' 11:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Donald Smith (tenor) and Robin Donald

Hi Kudpung. The first one has now been overwritten at least twice with a real mess. Since I've already reverted it once today, I've left it, tagged it for the multiple and very obvious issues, and put a note at Talk:Donald Smith (tenor). The second one was overwritten with copyvio paste from the subject's web page by the same editor. I've reverted it and so far this hasn't been re-reverted. I've left a message with more guidance onthe editor's talk page, but I'm not sure, how much effect it will have. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 11:32, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Donald Smith (tenor): I would be inclined to revert right back to this version and then just put back the one or two edits added by reasonable authors. You'll then be able to maintain reverting anything new he tries to do, escalate the warnings, and as soon as he's reached 3rr, let me or any other admin know and we'll block. Robin Donald is easier to control, for the moment it's basically a stub. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:30, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Fortunately another editor stepped in and reverted back to earlier version. I don't like reverting edits more than once unless they're BLP violations, copyvio or clear vandalism. Hopefully, the comments on the talk page from me and a second editor will convince them to stop. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:36, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Help

Your request is actioned, help is always appreciated although knowing what to ask for may be slightly less than straight forward. I believe I err on the side of saving articles where possible and being helpful. Any thoughts or suggestions.

User:MikeBeckett Please do say 'Hi!' 11:55, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, as I wrote or rewrote most of the page at WP:NPP, there's not much more advice I can think of off hand. Saving articles that are of real interest and encyclopedic value is very important of course. But blatant crap has to be deleted, and sometimes very quickly before it causes problems in Real Life. If you're not sure which CSD tag to use, rather than put the wrong tag on it, leave it for someone else. Read WP:NPP over and over again, and you'll soon get used to it. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:05, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I will continue to do as you suggest, repetition is a good teacher, if I can be of service in anyway do let me know, TTFN User:MikeBeckett Please do say 'Hi!' 12:13, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

If you like, there is a huge backlog of unpatrolled new pages at Special:New pages. But be warned, they are there because they are the difficult ones left by young or very new patrollers. They are also there because most of them have been made by WP:SPA who never return after creating their articles. Look for sources for them if you can, but if you can't find any, PROD them and they'll be procedurally deleted after 7 days. Another, do tag them with maintenance templates to ensure that they don't remain unnoticed for ever; Tagging automatically enters them on the respective categories that some editors are also working through. Good luck! Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:16, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate your guidance I will do so, I have also taken the liberty of applying to be an Ambassador, not in a hurry but saw it on your profile and like what I researched.User:MikeBeckett Please do say 'Hi!' 11:34, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

If it is not too frivolous please accept some sunshine! User:MikeBeckett -> User talk:MikeBeckett Please say 'Hi' 16:43, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Accretive Technologies Inc

Hi

I tried to recreate my article and got the following message: 11:46, 19 May 2011 Kudpung (talk | contribs) deleted "Accretive Technologies Inc" ‎ (A7: No explanation of the subject's significance (real person, animal, organization, or web content): and G11 - already deleted twice before).

This concerns the following page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accretive_Technologies_Inc For the moment I don't have the time to become more familiar with Wikipedia policies and pilars. So, can you please remove it completely. Currently, it shows that the page has been deleted, we don't want that, it can affect our image.

In advance, thanks for your help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tabuelata (talk • contribs) 12:16, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

The page (both versions) has been deleted and locked against recreation. I don't think anyone will be looking much for your company here. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Can you remove it completely please ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tabuelata (talk • contribs) 15:26, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

With the exception of serious cases of libel or defamation, and for protection of minors, page logs cannot be removed, at least not from my technical level as an administrator of Wikipedia. Our rules are quite clear that the encyclopedia cannot and must not be used in any way that can be construed as providing additional publicity for organisations that wish to attract business or supporters for their activity. The onus is on the posters of new articles to be familiar with these policies. The immediate solution is that you take time to read the instructions and create as soon as possible a draft new article that fully complies with our policies in a sub page of your Wikipedia user space; it would not be visible to the public, and I or another editor will review it. If it is appropriate for publication we would then unlock the article title and allow it to be moved to the public pages. The only other suggestion I can make is that you address the Arbitration Committee by email with your problem, but I fear their response will be of the same nature. (Click these links to see our policies and guidelines :Creator responsibilities, Notability, Criteria for Organisations, and Accepted reliable sources. Regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:15, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

page issue tags on Nordson Corporation - 2010

Hi. I think I've landed in the correct spot. I think you might have tagged our corporate page for the following:

This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page. It needs sources or references that appear in third-party publications. Tagged since June 2010. The notability of this article's subject is in question. If notability cannot be established, it may be listed for deletion or removed. Tagged since June 2010. It is written like an advertisement and needs to be rewritten from a neutral point of view. Tagged since June 2010.

If you can help me understand what your concerns are about the page I would very much appreciate it. I don't know how to get the big box with the ! off the page otherwise. Please email me at < redacted >
Thanks, Judy Bryan, Marketing Manager, Nordson Corporation —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bryan66 (talk • contribs) 15:29, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello. For reasons of transparency, we do not address issues such as these through email. For your security, your email address has been redacted. Unfortunately these tags may not be removed until the issues have been addressed. Please note that when an article is published in Wikipedia, it is no longer owned by its creator. Our rules are quite clear that the encyclopedia cannot and must not be used in any way that can be construed as providing additional publicity for organisations that wish to attract business or supporters for their activity. The onus is on the posters of new articles to be familiar with these policies. If it is not possible to assert notability and provide the required referenced sources to support it, deletion of the article will follow. (Click these links to see our policies and guidelines: Creator responsibilities, Notability, Criteria for Organisations, and Accepted reliable sources. Regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:15, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

BTW: More details about the article at Talk:Nordson Corporation = these concerns were expressed over nine months ago. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:06, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much

This is to say how grateful I am for the two rights you accorded me today. I hope to use them to make Wikipedia better. As I said the last time these rights are not for our own good but for the millions who turn to WP as their main reference point. Thanks once again. A friend called - CrossTempleJay  talk 16:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Benito Soliven Academy

Hi Kudpung,

Good day. Thanks for your suggestions in the article I posted "Benito Soliven Academy". I have added the items "secondary/high school", to identify the type of school I have posted. But I really want to include the mission and vision items in this article. I don't think those are advertisement in nature, since they are not promoting any type of product, but only emphasizing the religious vision and mission of the school which is very important for the reader to know.

Anyway, if you can suggest a way to include these (which I think are very important for the readers), please help me know.

Thank you and good day.

aptogle —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aptogle (talk • contribs) 10:16, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi. We don't have mission and vision statement in encyclopedia articles. Also if you have time, could you please recast the tone throughout for a more formal English - 'didn't have the dough' for example, is not the kind of language we use in books and textbooks in Western countries. Thanks. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:23, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Reviewer

I see you're still saying 'yes' - the pending changes thing is supposed to finish today. Doesn't do any harm, I suppose, but someone might get upset to be given something they can't use... Peridon (talk) 17:23, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

The page is closed now - problem solved. Peridon (talk) 23:43, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

RE: Caversham

Yes, you are completely right that I am kicking the tires. As I mentioned in the AfD, it worries me that Template:Schools in Berkshire has so many primary schools that may not pass the GNG. Hopefully the non-notable ones in that template can be agreed to be merged. Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:14, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

They don't need to be agreed - Redirecting is uncontroversial and does not need a discussion. Please now follow the links in the message I left you - the threads explain it all quite well and it is very recent. See also WP:WPSCH to locate a list of schools at AfD - they've almost all been nominated in good faith by editors who are not fully conversant with our policies and guidelines. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:23, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay, thank you. I will consider clearing the primary schools section of the template of stubs and redirect said stubs. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:34, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Be careful though, one school appears to make a strong claim of notability. Some schools have dead links in their refs. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:56, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay. It won't be for a while though. I am doing a major revision of Chrisye and haven't even had time to help out with the Requests for Feedback today. I will do my best to avoid stepping on toes. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:02, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

talkback

Hello. You have a new message at Swarm's talk page.

• x3 Swarm ^X 07:30, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Death pentaly for drugs

Well if you bother to look at the Nutzworld.com link I added, thats where I got the resourced information from! So if you think you can find a better source, go ahead. I was hoping that you can help me improve on the article!!!!!! McAusten (talk) 12:25, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

What should be done?

Hi, I am in a fix i cam across this article SHRI RAHUL GANDHI'S TIRADE AGAINST ACQUISITION AND THE NEGLECTED CASE OF HILL VIEW COOPERATIVE HOUSING SOCIETY, PINJORE, KALKA, HARYANA in the New pages list. I do not know what to do about it. Could you help. I also figured it was about issues concerning India. I know you will be in a better position to address it. Thanks. A friend called-- CrossTempleJay  talk 15:25, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Pardon me for butting in, but I have placed a speedy G2 tag on it.   ArcAngel   (talk) ) 15:50, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

And it was deleted by Sphilbrick. It's difficult to find the right CSD category for a page like that. It's clearly soapboxing and an opinion piece but there is not a specific CSD criteria for it. G2 seems apt, because if the creator knows and understands the word encyclopedia he/she obviously must know that the material is not encyclopedic and is therefore testing to see if he/she can post the article and get away with it. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:31, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

FYI

A while ago, I asked 28bytes for his assistance in an effort to ping the members of our task force. I've also moved all the "suggestions" from the project's home page to Wikipedia:RfA reform 2011/Possible proposals. See 28bytes's idea here to get discussion going on some of the "possible proposals." I'm thinking 28's idea will refresh the project a bit, and we can use it to evaluate which ideas we should ahead with. Swarm ^X 19:46, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry

Sorry, but I just can't take the fighting and the bickering anymore. I'll be back though -- I promise. Thanks for all you've done for me, and making my time here enjoyable. Tofutwitch11 ^(TALK) 01:39, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

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Mfd

Re Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Wikipedia policies and guidelines/Wikipedia:Requests for adminship, I'd support renaming at your discretion. Thanks. --Kleinzach 04:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I have absolutely no problems with a renaming, categorising, and backlinking. If this 'article' is to be kept, it should be able to be found. Any ideas for a name? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:24, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't know the background to this page, hence I didn't make any suggestions during the Mfd. --Kleinzach 05:35, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

How about Wikipedia:Requests for comment/The lost conversation? --Kleinzach 05:54, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, now you know why I didn't simply quietly move it myself, and decided to send it to MfD instead. I suggest userfying it to User Animum/Is RfA a vote? (Discussion) and putting a 'User essay' template on it, then adding cats 'Matters relating to RfA' and 'User essays'. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

OK! I support that! --Kleinzach 06:08, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Fine, go ahead and do it. Don't leave a redirect. Notify the creator very briefly of the move. I'll link it somewhere to various RfA matters I'm currently working on to give it some exposure. Quote 'as per' the diff for this thread [1] in the edit summary. BTW, while you're here, is there any particular reason you're not an admin? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:18, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

OK, but if I simply move and rename the page, won't that leave a redirect? How do I avoid that? (Re admin, no particular reason but . . . . ?) --Kleinzach 07:07, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot - only admins can move without leaving a redirect. Tell m when you've done it and I'll delete it as a G6 (housekeeping). Admin? Well, ew need more, and unless you've got some skeletons in the cupboard I don't know about, I just thought we could do with a couple of extra experienced hands around here. See this and let me know how you feel. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:55, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I've done the move, so over to you to delete the redirect.

Admin? No skeletons, some track record for being anti-bureaucracy etc. Main obstacle is the sheer hassle of the process of becoming an admin. Don't think I'd have the required patience. Certainly no desire to be an admin. (On the other hand, if I woke up tomorrow to find I'd become one it wouldn't bother me too much.) --Kleinzach 05:19, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I've moved the page to User:Animum/Is RfA a vote? (Discussion) since it was accidentally moved to the main namespace. --Tothwolf (talk) 08:54, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. My error. --Kleinzach 09:11, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

It was actually my fault - I forgot the colon (:) in the redlink I made. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:58, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Kudpung. You have new messages at Pyfan's talk page.
Message added 10:53, 24 May 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

RFA clerks

I had my own ideas about the clerking process. I was thinking that in order for further cooperation among clerks, there should be an official committee just like the ArbCom, MedCom, etc. This would ensure the communications of the members. I was also thinking about the basis that you could be come a clerk: i): You had to have some formal experience or should have should a little interest in becoming a clerk. (of course) ii) A clerk should have at least 3 months experience and 500-800 edits. iii) No blocks or editing restrictions or if there have been restrictions of any sort on you're account, it should have been at least +6 moths ago. I would have brought it to the main page's talk page but I want to see what you think first. Regards. mauchoeagle _(c) 20:18, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Perfectly valid suggestions - do go ahead and post them at WP:RFA/C. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:00, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

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RFA reform

Hi Kudpung, I don't believe we have always seen eye to eye but I really appreciate the work you've put in to the RFA reform. Now, I'd love to help out, but looking at the talk page it is quite long and I've no idea what's happening where. Can you please give me a clue as to what can be done? Thanks AD 22:48, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for taking up my invite to get involved. A lot of discussion has indeed taken place already so the best thing to do to get up to date is to at least read the talk of the main page at WT:RFA2011, then check out the main sub pages of the items that interest you, see their talk, and pick out interesting threads from the TOC. There have been many suggestions, but the main objective of the project is to abolish the drama. One item that many feel could be quickly proposed to the community is that of clerking. Some participants at RfA occasionally step in and attempt to keep things on track, but this is being done nowhere systematically or enough. It's one thing to remove a long, contentious thread to the talk page, but trolls need either firmly educating, blocking, or topic banning. To see this being done would send a clear signal to all that such behaviour at RfA is no longer tolerated. Blocking - or threatening to block - editors who fall victim to trolling is not a solution, all we lose is the editor and not the troll. Other important areas under discussion are installing minimum qualifications for candidates and possibly also for voters. Don't hesitate to ask me again if you would like any more pointers.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:59, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:RfA reform 2011/Candidates

Hi Kudpung. I've finished getting the data together at User:Worm That Turned/RFA criteria and User:Worm That Turned/Successful RFA. When you get a chance, would you be able to merge the information together to Wikipedia:RfA reform 2011/Candidates? From there we can possibly draw some conclusions about a minimum requirement for candidates, or at very least a "pre-RfA checklist". Worm^TT · (talk) 13:43, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, happy to, but give me a moment - just finishing dinner ;) --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:48, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

No rush, wasn't even expecting it today :)Worm^TT · (talk) 13:54, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Do you want to keep your user sub pages when I've finished, or do you want me to delete them for you? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:59, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

You can go ahead and delete them, they were just somewhere to keep my work while I did it :) Worm^TT · (talk) 14:17, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

 Done - Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:47, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Cheers

Thanks for copyediting Rose Bay Secondary College for me. I went back through and made a couple of changes for Aus. English and a couple of other bits and pieces. Beer on me whenever you're around.

Thanks also in regards to Turramurra High School. I don't think it's actually a school project; I think it's just a group that got together and decided to get it done. I'll keep an eye on it. -danjel (talk to me) 14:32, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunalely every time I go to Oz it's only to Melbourne. No worries ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:37, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Clerks

Kudpung, can I draft my proposal of clerks on the WP:RFA/C page? mauchoeagle _(c) 19:59, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

You most certainly can. Start a new section at the bottom of the page, and remember to add a message to the talk page describing what you have done so that other editors can chime in with their opinions. I'll have a look at it in the morning. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:21, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

FYI

Bot is back up. See Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Unpatrolled articles/April 2011. —SW— ^babble 02:43, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for posting our survey onto the RfA Reform 2011 page

The Communicative Practices in Virtual Workspaces research group at the University of Washington would like to thank you for finding our survey to be important to the Wikipedia community. Your support significantly helps us advance our research by bringing in more participants. We value the users' needs and encourage feedback. Thank you again for your support and let me know if you have any questions. --Avdelamerced (talk) 05:12, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Kudpung. You have new messages at Djc wi's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Wikipedia:RfA reform 2011/Unsuccessful RfAs

Hey there! I cam across my own name on this page and it lists me as retired, having stooped editing on Feb. 11 2011....

As you can see, I'm still very active here! I just took a Wikibreak at the time!--White Shadows ^{Stuck in square one} 01:30, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi. No need to post here - I'm not the boss of the project ;) Feel free to make the change yourself, and an appropriate edit summary. Thanks for your continued interest in reforming the RfA process. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:35, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure if I am a possible Admin candidate again or not....I don't want to say I am and act all elitist or anything. Besides, I don't want to mess the table up! Thanks for the comment :)--White Shadows ^{Stuck in square one} 01:37, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

BTW, you don't need to post talkback messages. I have this paged watch-listed :)--White Shadows ^{Stuck in square one} 01:38, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

 Done --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:48, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks ;)--White Shadows ^{Stuck in square one} 01:49, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

User:Lurulu

Looking at their talkpage, I see a long history of this kind of incompetence, and the Agnes Obel concerts is only the latest installment in that list. It seems to stretch back to 2007. I think this is a WP:COMPETENCE issue, and a block may be in order. I can restart the ANI thread if you think that's the best course of action. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 03:15, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

See his/her tp - I've just sent another to AfD because of a PROD removed without addressing the issue(s). Continuing to delete these concerts may do the trick, and Lurulu might just start creating some decent articles. Let's wait just a little longer because WP:COMPETENCE is not an easy one - ANI is contentious when it concerns music groups - the contemporary music cult is very hard nosed and they often canvas, and use meat and socks to assure their own consensus. whereas allowing more evidence to build up would enable me to issue a short block under WP:DISRUPT. Let's talk about it again if they refuse to accept the FLAGICON guideline, or create yet another tour list, because I agree this has to stop. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:31, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 03:50, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

There's also a huge amount of copyvio or very close paraphrasing in much of Lurulu's work. i'm editing out or recasting as much as I can, without tagging the articles, but I will place a soft warning on thier tp to try and help get the message across. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:57, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

It's a great pity. I think Lurulu has enthusiasm and dedication to his/her chosen subjects that Wikipedia would greatly benefit from. Unfortunately my experience has been that he/she has little interest in friendly advice, co-operating with others or following style guidelines. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:49, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I didn't follow this

I didn't follow this sentence in your oppose rationale at Requests_for_adminship/Ebikeguy :

Note that no candidate has succeeded with less than 3,000 edits since 2009, and that one had over one million edits cross-Wiki.

Did you mean "only one", instead on "no"? I vaguely recall supporting someone with only a few edits on en:wp, with many edits elsewhere, and was trying to remember the situation. A million sounds like a lot. Was it that many?--SPhilbrickT 13:27, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

It's all in here: Wikipedia:RfA reform 2011/Candidates. I only added the page yesterday. I remember that RfA too - it was all a bit odd. If you have any questions, best ask Worm, he ran the script to do the extrapolations. There's some very interesting stuff in those tables. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:49, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

So you agree "only one" is right? You wrote "no candidate".--SPhilbrickT 14:47, 29 May 2011 (UTC)h

Yes, those were Worm's actual words, I was just writing from memory, but I don't think it's worth splitting hairs about. The candidate's a really nice guy, and IMHO, just needs to clock up a few more thousand edits in the right places so I can apply a metric. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:13, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to belabor this minor point, but I thought you would want to correct your error.

The summary (presumably from Worm) says:

Only one person since 2009 has gained adminship with less than 3,000 edits

You said:

Note that no candidate has succeeded with less than 3,000 edits since 2009...

Do you see the difference?--SPhilbrickT 16:13, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I know, I'm a linguist ;) I already said above that I was writing from memory. But anyway, what's the problem? The RfA - which you apparently didn't vote on - has been closed, as we all knew it would, and cannot be edited, and so far, Worm's tables at RFA2011 haven't attracted any comment yet. The ony exercise the reform project is concerned with in this respect, is not to prevent any serious contenders from seeking office, but to discourage those who don't stand a chance at all from embarrassing themselves, and wasting our time. It's not a question of raising or lowering a bar - there isn't one, until one reads the data Worm provided, and the table I compiled right at the end. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 16:30, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I didn't contribute because I was doing some research into candidates with low edit counts. I had supported the one candidate with fewer edits than Ebikeguy, so I wanted to make sure my intended oppose for Ebikeguy wouldn't be inconsistent. By the time I wrote an oppose, the candidate withdrew. However, I was distracted by trying to figure out why you were saying that there was no such candidate, and I wanted to see if I was missing something. Had it been a article, I would have corrected it, but it isn't usually acceptable to rewrite someone else's words outside of article space, so I was trying to get you to correct it, so future readers wouldn't be mislead. We can move on :) --SPhilbrickT 16:42, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Personally, I think the Ebikeguy's nominator could have used better common sense on that nom rather than put that candidate through that.   ArcAngel   (talk) ) 18:25, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Re: Harry potter and the Never War

Hi, I wasn't exactly sure which was the right one to use, and I thought G11 best fit the article. But it didn't really sound like an attack page to me though. Wasn't it just an article about an unconfirmed rumour? --T H F S W (T · C · E) 16:55, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Sadly the young adult author's reaction to her elevation in social status came at great cost to her image and the image of the now household name, <redacted> "the boy who Lived" <redacted>. She soon joined <redacted> and <redacted> in their assault of the Hollywood party scene. The happenings along these misguided ventures are far to gruesome and vile to be discussed on the interweb.As one would expect, the fascist governments of Canada and Britain did not take kindly to her vagrant lifestyle. These small and fickle nations were soon pushing motions to ban future works of <redacted> and even deport her to the Congo. These motions soon passed and all future literature of the author <redacted> was soon banned in all Canada and England. In addition, <redacted> was urged to leave Britain for a suggested group of African nations. The United States would not stand for such atrocities. They quickly took in young <redacted> and offered her entrance to an intensive 4-year rehabilitation clinic for the lost and misguided.

I think that confirms the importance of reading articles carefully before tagging them. {{db-attack}} automatically puts a special red alert on all administrators' control panels so that they react very quickly. Did you also follow up and report the user for infraction of the username policy? Anyway, not to worry now, you can always ask me or another admin for help if you're not sure what tag to apply. Take care. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:53, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Unclear about Editing Notification

I have a questions regarding editing that was done on the Birthright Armenia page, since you are the editor that flagged the issue. The following is the editing notification, but I am unclear on what needs to be done because I updated the information since the said date to fix this by referrencing the information, but the notification is still shown.

"The topic of this article may not meet the notability guidelines for companies and organizations. Please help to establish notability by adding reliable, secondary sources about the topic. If notability cannot be established, the article is likely to be merged, redirected, or deleted. (April 2011)"

Thank you. Amg921 (talk) 09:33, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi. You'll need to go to the article's editing history here here - there have been a lot of edits and changes since I commented on it, including it being proposed for deletion. The place for further disscussion would then be on the article talk page. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:02, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. I went through and saw the edits done by the many different people. I am still unsure about what additional sources need to be added since there were not a lot that were accessible. But if it does not seem to be primarily negative feedback than I think that it may be okay in that sense. Amg921 (talk) 07:45, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Twinkle

I noticed your comment on WT:TW. I agree that it is unfortunate that bugs were present when Twinkle was upgraded. However, unless you have programmers with lots of time to work on their code, it is very difficult to ensure that all the holes are plugged and everything holds together. We test the most important changes, and then other ones that we have time to check.

Anyway, that aside, you also said that you had found a lot of bugs with Twinkle – indeed, "too many to list". If you have a spare moment to tell me/us, we would be happy to hear about quirks, problems, unexpected happenings, difficulties, etc. with Twinkle, as we certainly do want to fix them! (Or at least try to fix them. Sometimes it's easier said than done, especially when one does not own a Mac, etc.) Thanks, — This, that, and the other (talk) 10:40, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi. I didn't mean to sound sarcastic, and I'm sorry if you took it that way. Yes, there are indeed thousands of Mac users out there but probably not so many who are admins or busy editors doing household chores. I don't know how Twinkle works or where its code is stored so I can't be of much help right now, but I think it has a lot to do with js. From now on, I'll message your tp as I come across them. For the moment the inconvenience is that there are things that only work in some Wiki skins and not on others, and in some browsers and not on others. From now on, I'll message your tp as I come across them, and then you can let me know if you would like me to test the fixes. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:49, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the RfA Advice

Thanks for the link, Kudpung. I'll try and read it thoroughly. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:34, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I've read it and will try and improve myself. I never suspected that keeping my barnstars on my talk page would be seen as pretentious. I will try and help develop some of the further along articles as well, as well as wait another couple months. Cheers! Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:46, 31 May 2011 (UTC)