User talk:Jlhcpa

To talk to me click here, and I will respond to you as soon as possible, Thank-You.

Welcome!

Hello, Jlhcpa, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome!

Move of Kevin Donley draft

I moved your Kevin Donley draft to User:Jlhcpa/Kevin Donley draft. Drafts should be made as subpages of your user page. Your user page should be about you as an editor. See Wikipedia:So you made a userspace draft for more details to help you. Also please do not use categories on draft pages. Jason Quinn (talk) 00:40, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome. Feel free to ask me for advice on any issues you may have. One tip: when you leaves comments, the standard way to sign your posts is by typing four tildas as like this ~~~~. It will automatically convert into a dated link to your name and talk page like this: Jason Quinn (talk) 13:49, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File source problem with File:Brian Kelly.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Brian Kelly.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 03:18, 13 December 2009 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:18, 13 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Archiving talk pages

Hi, Jlhcpa. Archiving talk pages is usually prefered to manually cleaning it up. This will be invaluable to you as you gain more experience with Wikipedia because it helps you more easily recall long-forgotten discussion. For help on how to archive your talk page, see Help:Archiving_a_talk_page. Cheers! Jason Quinn (talk) 20:18, 14 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolving disputes

The first thing is not to edit war. In particular, usually the three revert rule should be followed. If the dispute still exists, then the next stage is to take the discussion to the talk page of the relevant article and invite all interested parties to comment on the matter. I usually double-check my understanding of the relevant policy guildlines at this point. A message on the talk page of your primary opponent may be worthwhile that lets them to join the discussion and not to continue until there is consensus. Depending on the article and how much attention it recieves, this could be a slow process. I have articles where I started discussions months ago and I am still waiting for more opinions. If consensus is not reached or if the edit war continues, the next stage would be to read Wikipedia:Dispute resolution and decide upon the appropriate channel to follow. This will often lead to a Requests for comment (aka RFC). There are stages after this (Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests) but hopefully you won't have to go there and I've never had to in four years of editing.

Some words of advice: try not to let the dispute lead to wikistress. Edit disputes, if you let them get to you emotionally, can stop your enjoyment of the project. Getting emotionally involved can also cloud your own judgment. Try to maintain civility at all times because when the matter is up for an RFC, you will look all the better for it. Good luck to you. Jason Quinn (talk) 13:54, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Date autoformatting

Hi, thanks for your contributions. I notice that you're still autoformatting dates. Please see WP:MOSNUM, which says that this is no longer the practice. Tony (talk) 08:25, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent! Tony (talk) 22:43, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Standards; IP edits

To answer your first question regarding college football coaching navboxes, there is a standard of consistency wherein only the last names are shown. Putting years, in most (but not all) cases of these types of navigation boxes is superfluous information that can be extracted by making the coaches' pages. Years make the navboxes look clunky, unclean and ultimately make them take up a whole lot more room than is necessary. If someone needs to know so badly what years a particular coach was active then they can go the coach's page (and if it doesn't yet exist, someone can make it).

As for accidentally editing as an IP, there is no way—to the best of my knowledge—to "reclaim" those edits. They will forever be logged under the IP address, not your username. I've made a handful of edits back in the day as an IP (accidentally, of course) that I realized I would never get back and not have them count toward my user statistics. Unfortunately it just goes that way sometimes. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:15, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File copyright problem with File:McDonald's08.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:McDonald's08.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

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Non Free Files in your User Space

Hey there Jlhcpa, thank you for your contributions! I am a bot alerting you that Non-free files are not allowed in the user or talk-space. I removed some files that I found on User:Jlhcpa. In the future, please refrain from adding fair-use files to your user-space drafts or your talk page.

See a log of files removed today here.

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Report errors here.

Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 05:04, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

NAIA DII

Thank you so much for creating the NAIA DII 2010 Tournament page! I've been working on D1 for the longest time. (And was hoping to get to the D2 tourney as soon as D1 is done, then once all the men's are done, go on to D1 women's then D2 women's. lofty goals.) Thanks for the help! Keep it up! Moonraker0022 (talk) 20:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have to admit, my interest was self-seeking. I am a fan of the USF Cougars, winners of this years D2 championship! When I saw that it wasn't done, I IMMEDIATELY jumped at the chance. As a member of basketball and college basketball WikiProjects, I love to see the basketball records up to date in Wikipedia. Thanks, too, for your efforts in the basketball "arena". Jlhcpa (talk) 18:05, 20 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox/names

Um i think the best/easiest thing to do is just to create a new template:infobox NAIA DII Basketball (which will cover Men's and Women's under the gender function). And was the question of naming in the NAIA Men's Basketball Championships from NAIA national men's basketball championship or the placement of Men's and Division like this: 1965 NAIA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament or 1965 NAIA Division I Men's Basketball Tournament?

At one point I did have the Division first Old 1945 version but then i flipped them for ease of moving back and forth from the Divisions and gender and league. That way one who is comparing 2010 NAIA DI and 2010 NAIA DII, only needs to change the year, not year and placement of men's and Division. So I hope this helps with the logic behind the naming. I looked at wiki:naming conventions and I couldn't find anything that would suggest there is a wrong way (division or gender first) but the simplicity clause seems to go with the standardization of all similar basketball pages. NCAA/NAIA DI/DII/(DIII). Also, the website may say Division I Men's but similar things like the Olympic webpage and the wikipedia name are different... Atlanta 1996 (as seen on official Olympics site is 1996 Summer Games). So they don't always match exactly. So that's my two cents I hope it lessens the confusion. Moonraker0022 (talk) 21:07, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Michigan Miss Basketball

A tag has been placed on Michigan Miss Basketball requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, a rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content. You may wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. MaenK.A._Talk 17:03, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File copyright problem with File:US Unemployment Rates 1942 2009.pdf

Thank you for uploading File:US Unemployment Rates 1942 2009.pdf. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 23:21, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Opinion request at WikiProject CBB

I found you through Category:WikiProject College basketball members and am requesting your opinion on an issue. If you have the time, please go to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball#NEED HELP: Helms Foundation POY reference(s). Thank you in advance. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:08, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mr. Show-Me Basketball

This is an automated message from VWBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Mr. Show-Me Basketball, and it appears to include material copied directly from http://www.mobca.org/Show-MeBasketball/pastwinners.htm.

It is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article. The article will be reviewed to determine if there are any copyright issues.

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Nomination of Other Mr. Basketball for deletion

A discussion has begun about whether the article Other Mr. Basketball, which you created or to which you contributed, should be deleted. While contributions are welcome, an article may be deleted if it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines for inclusion, explained in the deletion policy.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Other Mr. Basketball until a consensus is reached, and you are welcome to contribute to the discussion.

You may edit the article during the discussion, including to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 20:47, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Other Miss Basketball for deletion

A discussion has begun about whether the article Other Miss Basketball, which you created or to which you contributed, should be deleted. While contributions are welcome, an article may be deleted if it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines for inclusion, explained in the deletion policy.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Other Miss Basketball until a consensus is reached, and you are welcome to contribute to the discussion.

You may edit the article during the discussion, including to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 20:47, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Kevin Donley

Jlhcpa, hello. I made a bunch of edits on Kevin Donley today to clean up the article and bring the infobox and head coaching record table in line with standards. I see that you created this article a few months ago and contributed most of its content. Thanks for getting this one started. I added Donley to this list, which I've been working on recently: List of college football coaches with 200 career wins. We were missing him! I think we're probably missing some other NAIA guys on that list as well.

I see the Donley article used to have season-by-season schedules for each of Donley's teams and that you distributed that content to the respective college or team articles. That was definitely a move in the right direction, but If you want this content to stick around, I'd recommend creating new pages for each of these teams and moving the schedules there. Yearly schedules for the Georgetown Tigers football team definitely don't belong at Georgetown College (Kentucky). Yearly team articles can then be linked from Donley's article in the head coaching record table (a la Lloyd Carr#Head coaching record) and other appropriate places in the body of the article.

I've done a lot of work on Michigan football in the past year or so. We've now got a page for every Michigan football team going back to 1879. I aimed to imbue these pages with the best-in-class formatting. If you want to create pages for Donley's teams, these are good modesls to work off of. Thanks and let me know if I can be of assistance with this. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:04, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:Saint Francis Cougars football coach navbox

Template:Saint Francis Cougars football coach navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 06:16, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

please split —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.149.58.64 (talk) 04:41, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

List of college football coaches with 200 career win

We update the above list for all coaches all at once based on prior week's results. If people make adjustments for individual coaches, it impedes the effort and makes the list misleading, since it includes updates for some, but not all coaches. Accordingly, please do not update one coach's record (in this case Kevin Donley) unless you are going to update all of them. Cbl62 (talk) 20:39, 13 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jlhcpa, I saw you just made an update to the List of college football coaches with 200 career wins. It looks like what you did was correct for the most part, but updating "to reflect totals shown on respective coach's Wiki article" is not good idea. The list should be updated only to be correct. If part of that process means updating each of those coaches' articles to be correct, that's great. But simply syncing with articles that may or may not be updated is not good. Mack Brown, for example, was not up-to-date because some IP editor made a crappy edit updating his 2010 record, but none of his career totals. We don't want to stoop to that level with this list. Thanks. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:35, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jlhcpa, the 200 wins table may indeed have better information than some of the coach biographies, as weird as that may seem. The reason that is the case is that list was built and has been maintained by an excellent, veteran editor, User:Cbl62. In contrast, the coach biographies, especially those for the higher profile guys, tend to get pounded by newbies, IPs, vandals, and other crappy editor-types. Ideally, all of these lists and bio articles will be updated and synced in a timely fashion. I'm just warning against blindly assuming the integrity of the coaching articles. One way to get a sense of the quality of an article's up-to-date-ness is to check the recent edit history. Check out the history for Larry Kehres and the edit summaries I've made there. My aim with those is to signal to other editors that the records there are accurate and up to date and are safe to integrate into stuff like the 200 wins list. As you suggest, building out the yearly head coaching record tables goes a long way toward ensuring the accuracy of career records and making clear how up to date they are. I've made sure that everyone on List of college football coaches with a .750 winning percentage has such a table. That was a crucial step in building the .750 list and ensuring its accuracy and meaningfulness. I'm probably still missing a few guys who should be on that list, but what is there is good.

A larger project I've been working on is to sweep through college football coach biographies from programs across the nation in all conferences and divisions to do some clean up and standardize elements like the infobox and head coaching record table. Needless to say, there are quite a lot of guys to get to, and this effort may take years just to hit everyone once. I've gotten to just about everyone who ever coached in the Big Ten Conference, a lot of the SEC guys, most of the Hall of Famers, and lots of others here and there. I'm coordinating with User:Paulmcdonald, whose focus has been on the NAIA programs and some of the smaller NCAA schools.

That would be awesome if you'd like to build out the head coaching record tables for the guys on the 200 wins list who are missing them. If you decide to take that on, please take a look at what I've done with guys like Larry Kehres and your guy, Kevin Donley, in terms of formatting, use those as a model, and let me know if you see any issues or potential improvements. Thanks. Jweiss11 (talk) 06:29, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Willard Bailey

Jlhcpa, I saw you added a head coaching record table for Willard Bailey. Nice work. I made a few edits to standardize a few things. When you get a chance, please take a look especially at my first, second, third, and fifth edits following your run. Also, this NCAA document could be a use to you: [1]. I found some more playoff results for Bailey at Virgina Union there. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 19:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Head coaching record tables continued

Jlhcpa, I checked out your additions at Dennis Douds, Bob Ford (American football). Thanks for getting the ball rolling there. I did a bunch of editing at Douds to expand the infobox and flesh out the head coaching record table with yearly conference records and standings. I found those on the Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference website here: [2].

I see that in your latest edits at Bob Ford you incorporated some of the stuff I referenced in my post above regarding Willard Bailey. To recap and add a few other items:

In the name parameter of CFB Yearly Record Subhead, you want to link to the main article for that football team, even if it's a redirect, e.g. Virginia Union Panthers football. If such a redirect does not exist, it would be best to creat it and have it point to the main athletic program or university article. It's better to link directly to Virginia Union Panthers football, rather than Virginia Union University#Athletics, because, ideally, one day we'll have an article for all such football teams, and then we won't have to change to links in places like head coaching record tables. The name parameter should display the school's short name and fight name to match the naming conventions for college sports articles, e.g. "Virginia Union Panthers", not "Virginia Union University Panthers". The "University" should be dropped to follow convention.
The conf parameter of CFB Yearly Record Subhead should link to the conference article. No parenthetical abbreviations are needed to follow standards.
If a coach is active, the endyear parameter of CFB Yearly Record Subhead for his current tenure should be left blank. When blank, endyear defaults to display "present".
In the year parameter in CFB Yearly Record Entry, link to the relevant college football season article, if it exists. Before 1978, we just have single yearly articles covering all of college football. Since 1978, we have articles or redirects for NCAA DI-A/FBS and DI-AA/FCS. DII, DIII, and NAIA could potentially be created.
In the bowlname parameter in CFB Yearly Record Entry, don't use hyphens to separate the round from the tournament. This is actually an improper use of hyphens and I think it's clear without any intermediate punctuation.
Also, I would suggest laying out the table code so that each parameter appears on a new line, rather than entire templates on a single line; see [3]. I find this is a lot easier to navigate and edit.

Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 18:25, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

NAIA Football Championship Series

Jlhcpa, I saw you kicked of a bunch of articles for the NAIA Football Championship Series. Good stuff. A few items to discuss:

I don't think the new template you created, Template:Infobox NAIA Football Championship Series is needed. If we're going to highlight the championship games in an infobox, we can use Template:Infobox NCAA football yearly game. I know it's called Infobox NCAA...but it will work fine for NAIA games and should probably be remained to "Infobox college football yearly game".
Since the scope of these articles is the entire playoff tournament, something like Template:Infobox NCAA Football Tournament maybe more appropriate for the main infobox. That template should probably be generalized to handle both NCAA and NAIA games.
Be sure to bold the subject of the article in the lead. I took care of this for the articles you created so far (1999 to 2010).
When writing prose, avoid parenthetical state codes. Instead of "Carroll (MT)" write Carroll Fighting Saints. I think these state codes do make sense in places like playoff brackets where economy of space is a virtue. We actually just had a discussion on the CFB project talk page about this topic; see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football#Style preference: Miami University and University of Miami
The state code for Nebraska is NE, not NB.

Thanks for kicking these articles off. Jweiss11 (talk) 06:49, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, the name change you made on NAIA Football National Championship should have been done with a page move to preserve the edit history of the article. See: Wikipedia:Moving a page. Thanks. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:18, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nice, looks like you fixed all this and did all the associated cleanup with the redirects. Excellent. Thanks also for creating all those redirects for the NAIA football programs that didn't have them. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:50, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Redirects, etc

Got your message on my talk page. I don't know of any policy that says a redirect has to be kept. However, it seems likes the "NAIA Football Championship Series" redirects may be worthwhile keeping since that term is indeed used by the NAIA, e.g. here: [4].

I'm a little confused now about the intended scope of these articles. Take 2010 NAIA Football National Championship, for example. Is this supposed to represent just the championship game played on December 18, or the entire tournament of 15 games over the four weeks? The lead and infobox suggest this is just about the championship game, but then we have the whole playoff bracket there too. I think it makes the most sense to represent the entire tourney and then decide if the championship game warrants its own page as well. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:37, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

BARNSTAR! 2010 NAIA Football National Championship

		The College football Barnstar
		For your outstanding work on single-handedly creating a wonderful article 2010 NAIA Football National Championship, I award you this well-deserved College Football Barnstar!Paul McDonald (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Georgetown (KY)'s conference before 1995

Jlhcpa, happy new year. I was just looking at Kevin Donley's article and I see we have the Mid-South Conference listed as Georgetown's conference during Donley's tenure, 1982 to 1992. But it seems the Mid-South Conference was not established until 1995. We've got conference records in the table for those years, which I'm going to guess you added. Do you remember your source for those? Anyway idea what conference they were in fact playing in back then? Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 23:48, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of James Blackmon, Jr.

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.
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A tag has been placed on James Blackmon, Jr. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hang on}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion, or "db", tag; if no such tag exists, then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hang-on tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Travelbird (talk) 09:27, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of James Blackmon, Sr.

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on James Blackmon, Sr. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hang on}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion, or "db", tag; if no such tag exists, then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hang-on tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Staffwaterboy ^{Critique Me} 03:45, 26 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NAIA Naming... again.

Hey, so I know we went back and forth on the correct naming of the NAIA. I (finally) posted the question to the WP:CBBALL discussion, and it looks like they all need to be redirected to the new name. (So flipping the word Men's to how it is listed with the NAIA site). Thanks for your help on the DII tournaments. Moonraker0022 (talk) 22:50, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:Indiana HS Basketball All-time Leading Scorers navbox

Template:Indiana HS Basketball All-time Leading Scorers navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. I have also nominated the following templates in the same TfD discussion:

Template:Indiana HS Boys' Basketball All-time Leading Scorers navbox (edit | [[Talk:Template:Indiana HS Boys' Basketball All-time Leading Scorers navbox|talk]] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Template:Indiana HS Girls' Basketball All-time Leading Scorers navbox (edit | [[Talk:Template:Indiana HS Girls' Basketball All-time Leading Scorers navbox|talk]] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Jrcla2 (talk) 16:05, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

School article guidelines

Hi! I notice all the work you are doing on high school athletics in Indiana. I, as a graduate of an Indiana high school (Hobart) appreciate this! I am wondering though, if you are familiar with what the school article guidelines say about high school sports? Per those guidelines, the only achievements that are notable and encyclopedic are state or national level championships. My personal feeling and something I have been working on at school articles all across the country is that many, many school articles here on Wikipedia are written in a tone like the booster club wrote them. One of the things I have been working on is eliminating all mention of any sports achievements other than actual referenced state championships. I really like your table at Bishop Luers High School, but I am wondering of you would consider modifying it to eliminate losses at the state championships? Also, your table duplicates most of the editorial content in the athletic section. Would you like to eliminate the editorial content and replace it with a list of sports offered? I have a somewhat unrelated question for you also. I have noticed that many schools claim state championships in what are essentially "club" sports (two examples might be rugby and hockey) that the official sanctioning body in the particular state doesn't sanction. What would you think a reliable source for that information might be, and do you think that it is even encyclopedic? Possible reasons not might be: Whatever sanctioning body is sanctioning it isn't statewide and how do we even know; the sanctioning body may not always be the same year to year; do they even insist on eligability requirements that are similar to the state's official sanctioning body? Thanks for your attention; feel free to answer here as I now have this page watched. Happy editing! Gtwfan52 (talk) 00:10, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GTWFAN52, I will attempt to address each point you raised above.

1. To be very honest, I am not aware of the school article guidelines that have been developed by the Wiki gods or other overlords. I must admit I am a bit of a maverick when it comes to Wiki editing; I create or edit articles based on what’s interesting to me, and that’s about the only criteria I apply as I edit. My concept of Wikipedia as a free-source encyclopedia has brought me to the conclusion that the best content will be less structured and based on what a user wants to input. Having said that, I adhere to a strict personal ethic of trying to only publish facts; I hope my articles do not have too much of the “booster club” appearance or affect on the reader. However, I recognize that some of the facts may be more “almanac-like” in content rather than “encyclopedic”. As an amateur author, I do not pretend to know what is “worthy of inclusion” in an encyclopedia. But the open-source, free-form concept had directed me to include what’s interesting to me; eventually the “experts” are going to come along and question the content or revise it without consulting like you have done here. I recall one project in the past that almost caused me to drop out of Wikipedia editing completely. In my recent history, you will see talk about deleting the template I developed for all-time Indiana high school basketball scoring leaders. I put a lot of effort into creating and updating that chart, mostly because the information was important to me. It was developed while Deshaun Thomas was still in high school and rewriting the scoring records with each passing game. Alas, someone thought that was not Wiki-relevant and deleted it. So Wiki is open source and free form, but not too open and not too free form. The “experts” determined that I was wrong in having enough interest to develop this project.

2. Most of the work I do with high school athletics involves teams in and around the Fort Wayne area. I am most familiar with those schools, and my alma mater is there. I have edited other schools to apply improvements based solely on my own instinct/notice. I claim no particular expertise in the high school arena; it is merely one of my interests.

3. I guess if the Wiki “experts” have developed guidelines that say only state or national championships should be published, then anything else is “non-encyclopedic”. On the other hand, I believe the other accomplishments give an overall flavor of a school’s athletic history and are worthy of inclusion. I came across the “appearance in championships” concept in an article somewhere, admittedly from a college football school, but I thought it was reasonable. In the end, such content is what I have referred to above as “almanac” rather than “encyclopedia” content. Ultimately, the experts will rule, and content will be retained or deleted based on what “their” collective opinion is. A school’s local or regional accomplishments serve to define the school’s domination or power at levels other than state or national. Therefore, I believe such content is relevant.

4. As I read various articles published in Wikipedia, I find many whose content I find lacking. For every 100 articles read, I am sure I can find at least 20 that are not developed to standards I would use if I were the editor/author. Having said that, I am at a loss about how concerned I should be. I appreciate someone taking the time to draft the article, in spite of what I perceive as lacking. As long as the content is factual and well documented, I do not believe it is my charge to delete content that I do not feel is up to my standards. I think such an approach is counterproductive to the entire concept of Wikipedia. But that’s only my opinion.

5. I suppose the Bishop Luers table can be modified in any way that the collective believes is appropriate to display only “encyclopedic” content. As stated above, I am not an authority on what should be included; I added the state championship appearances (losses) to further provide a feel for how successful an athletic program has been. You can’t win them all, so in my opinion getting there is noteworthy too. But I also understand the argument that a high school such as Carmel, who might have 15-20 championship appearances annually, has too much activity to include anything other than the actual championships.

6. I agree the content in the table has been repeated elsewhere in the paragraphs that accompany the table. I wrestle with whether such duplication is a problem or not. I point to things like infoboxes that appear on many athletic-related pages. Much of the statistics and content presented within the infoboxes also appears elsewhere on an article’s page. Whereas the table gives a snapshot of all championship activity collectively, the paragraphs are generally geared toward one particular activity and therefore adds flow as it relates to that activity. Redundant? Maybe. I will try to do whatever is expected to present the content in an acceptable manner.

7. I believe the Bishop Luers article already has a list of sports offered, but perhaps presenting this content in another table might make a standard that is easily to spot and compare from article to article. I am open to creating such a table and have already thought about how it might be presented. I am open to discussion about whether the verbal content should be deleted since it is also included in the table.

8. I am not sure how club sports and other non-sanctioned athletics should be presented. I, for one, recall the days when volleyball was a club sport before it became sanctioned. And northeast Indiana has a lot of club activity in ice hockey (due in part to the popularity of the Fort Wayne Komets semipro hockey team), and I do not know the rationale applied by the IHSAA to decide what is a club and what is a sanctioned sport. For all the effort put into those activities by the participants, I do not know how to reasonably draw a line that includes or excludes such activity. Again, what is relevant to one may not be appreciated by another or the collective. But state hockey championships are just as valid in Indiana as they are in, say, Minnesota, even though our state’s governing body does not sanction its play. Try telling the ice hockey players that their achievement was substandard.

9. I hope this gives you some insight to how I author or edit articles. This is not to be received as contentious; I am open to doing whatever the collective expertise believes makes the whole more consistent and “encyclopedic”. I welcome any additional comments and feedback. I have not changed anything at this time, but I certainly can be persuaded that certain changes will improve the content as a whole. Thanks for contacting me rather than merely redoing based on your standards. Jlhcpa (talk) 22:53, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your reply. I want to think on a reply for a few days. I will tell you now why I feel a "Standard" layout for each various kind of article is somewhat important. Although you, and I, too, read Wikipedia for fun; for most it is a reference. As a reference, I feel it is important that when you go to an article on say a school, you will know what kind of information to expect and what format it will be found in. That's the way the "World Book" that we had in my home growing up was laid out. City articles were all in the same format with different info, same, with states, countries, presidents, etc. It made finding the info needed for whatever project I was working on quick and easy.

I appreciate your input on the club sports, but I do have to disagree with the importance of the feelings of the players involved in the sports. I played hockey in high school too. We were in a suburban Chicago league, and my friends up in Kalamazoo, MI, played against teams from Ft Wayne and South Bend. But again, as a reference, reporting on an achievement without some objective standard as to what that achievement was is somewhat irresponsible. Is it the same achievement to win a state lacrosse title when the organization sanctioning lacrosse doesn't have the same eligibility standards and the sport is only played in 15 schools as opposed to 400 for basketball? The point is that the article on Bishop Luers or Andrean or Hobart or Arsenal are not written for the people who attended those schools; it is written for the rest of the world.

Lastly, the guidelines on school articles were formed by consensus at the school project several years ago, prior to my time here, too. They can be changed by consensus also, just like anything else in the Wiki-world. It may seem like guidelines, policies, etc. were formed by some sort of authority, but the truth is that the only authority here at Wikipedia is us, the editors, and from conversations like these changes start. I appreciate your time and thank you for stimulating some thought. I will get back to you further. Would you be interested in taking your efforts state wide in Indiana? Indiana has one of the richest high school sports traditions in the whole country. With some work, I could foresee a really great thing like what the highway nuts have done with road articles in Michigan. Gtwfan52 (talk) 05:39, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Debate is always a good thing; I look forward to your further thoughts. Yes, I would be interested in assisting with any Indiana HS project that would make all articles more uniform and consistent in content. Jlhcpa (talk) 14:55, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Nomination for deletion of Template:AP Indiana All-Century HS Basketball team navbox

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2003 NAIA football rankings

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McDonald's All-American Boys Game drafts

I hope you don't mind but I moved 2004 McDonald's All-American Boys Game and moved Draft:2002 McDonald's All-American Boys Game and Draft:2003 McDonald's All-American Boys Game. You haven't been active for a while so I didn't want them deleted as stale drafts if someone else is interested in taking it on. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:09, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox NAIA Football Championship Series

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Orphaned non-free image File:Logo for the 2014 NAIA Football National Championship.jpg

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Notre Dame Invite

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Proposed deletion of 2015 NAIA football season

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1999 NAIA football rankings

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Draft:2003 McDonald's All-American Boys Game concern

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Your draft article, Draft:2002 McDonald's All-American Boys Game

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Your draft article, Draft:2003 McDonald's All-American Boys Game

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2016 NAIA Division II Men's Basketball Tournament

Thanks so much !!!  I know that was a lot of work  and you did a great job !!!

Thank you. Jlhcpa (talk) 00:33, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I just went back and looked at your championship updates. I am so grateful that you've done all this good work! I will find some time in the near future to copyedit it, and see if I can add some references and such. Again, great work and thanks so much! Jacona (talk) 21:10, 21 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You will notice, if you edit the article, that much of the prior year content is still present, hidden from view by "comment" marks. I was intending to add this material to the current year, but I have not yet had time to look for internet articles that contain the needed content. Feel free to use this framework, or delete it as you see fit. Jlhcpa (talk) 22:43, 21 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Please take a look at the logo in the infobox. It appears to be quite compressed. Jlhcpa (talk) 22:20, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I tripled it. Hopefully it stands, it's a fair use image and the rules on those are complicated. It will probably have to be redone to adhere to some obscure policy, even though I'm sure the NAIA would be ecstatic to know it was being used. Thanks again for all your efforts, this is really good stuff! Jacona (talk) 23:24, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:2014 NAIA football season navbox

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Your draft article, Draft:2003 McDonald's All-American Boys Game

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Your draft article, Draft:2002 McDonald's All-American Boys Game

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Nomination of Union (Kentucky) Bulldogs football for deletion

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Proposed deletion of Montana Tech Orediggers football

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I will withdraw from this discussion. If someone familiar with the football program wants to take up this article and create content worth retaining, I can accept that. I can also agree that this article has not been developed much since the day it was created. Jlhcpa (talk) 20:33, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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A page you started (2000 Saint Francis Cougars football team) has been reviewed!

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2019 Saint Francis Cougars football team moved to draftspace

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Your submission at Articles for creation: 2019 Saint Francis Cougars football team (August 17)

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AfC notification: Draft:2019 Saint Francis Cougars football team has a new comment

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Your submission at Articles for creation: 2019 Saint Francis Cougars football team (August 26)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by SportingFlyer were:

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The comment the reviewer left was:

I don't think NAIA seasons pass the WP:NSEASONS guideline, and in any case there's barely enough prose to get this past WP:NOTSTATS. There's only one source which looks to pass WP:GNG, the Journal Gazette, and that's a local news source.

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SportingFlyer T·C 07:31, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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