This is an archive of past discussions with User:Jameboy. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Not sure it is absolutely necessary to reference exaxtly where you got his full name. The Matthews book is still listed as a source. Djln --Djln23:01, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I am not over arsed, I just don't think his middle name is so significant that it needs a specific reference. I have written article on other WBA players Davy Walsh and Jack Reynolds if you are interested in checking them out. Djln--Djln23:32, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Geoff Horsfield
Hi thanks for your message. I left them in as it doesn't really matter either way, whether they are there or not. Leaving them in does no harm, nor does leaving them out. When I edit, I cut and paste the sources from here using the "common usage" templates, and leave the layout as it is now on an individual line in the article, (which I used to amend so that it was rolled into one line in the text) because it is much easier on the eye to read and/or edit when the article is edited later. Thanks, hope that helps, and of course there is no reason why the lines not used could be edited out. ♦Tangerines♦·Talk13:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I have seen your message left on the talk page for User:Orangina2 regarding dashes. Can you explain why "endash" must be used rather than a straightforward hyphen? I have read WP:DASH but this doesn't explain the reasons. Can you enlighten me? Daemonic Kangaroo04:46, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Have a look at this in conjunction with WP:HYPHEN (it's immediately above WP:DASH so you can just scroll up). Hyphens indicate conjunction, e.g. re-dress, non-linear, hard-boiled. The dash has a number of uses, but in terms of football articles it is usually for a from...to range or a match score, so some examples might be pp78–79, 1981–82 season (confusingly, linking to an article named with a hyphen!) or 2–1. If I'm wrong on this please shout, but all the featured articles that I've seen follow this convention. --Jameboy14:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for letting me know about the error, I'd always thought the italics were part of the MoS but I was clearly wrong! Cheers. Simon KHFC18:22, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey Jameboy, Rambling Man here, editing from an easyCafe (so not logging in). Thanks for your interesting comments on the Seasons page, and more importantly, thanks for your support! Your point is fair but rather curiously I keep seeing debates all over the place as to whether Wikipedia shouldn't descend into a sporting almanac. Hmm. Who knows. So, to your other question, that of the chapters in {{Cite book}} references. You've made another good point. I tend to add the chapter if it's the first time I've gone into it but indeed, if the references are used out of order then that scuppers the idea. To be brutally honest, if you've got the book and the ISBN and the year of publishing then it's probably overkill to add the chapter in as well. Just my opinion. Have a good one, and thanks again. 193.82.16.5009:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC) (easyRambler)
Cheers for the advice. The article is still very much in progress so I'll try out the different reference styles and see what looks best. Ultimately I hope to get the article peer-reviewed so I'm sure it will all be sorted out then, anyway. --Jameboy10:46, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Wow, I just looked at his managerial stats. I know he's been in charge of ropey teams, but his stats are bad...! 193.82.16.5011:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC) (easyRambler)
Have to agree, although I haven't verified them yet. As an aside, I noticed from here that Bobby Robson was once England B coach, seemingly around 1978-80, which I thought you might want to mention in the article. It seems quite relevant, especially as he went on to pick some of the same players at full international level. I'd be happy to add it in myself, but thought you might have some additional supporting material in books etc. that would put it in context. Cheers. --Jameboy12:59, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Darren Moore
Hi. I've found loads of errors on Soccerbase to be honest. The correct figures for Darren Moore are on http://www.neilbrown.newcastlefans.com/bradfordcity/bradfordcity.htm. If you actually tot up the figures on Soccerbase, his league appearances for Bradford should be 61 (and not 63 showing how incorrect they can be) - 17 in 1997-98 and 44 in 1998-99, but they've missed a game against Tranmere in 1997-98. Peanut414:52, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Bryan Robson
Just noticed you've been doing quite a bit of work on Bryan Robson - possibly towards Featured Status? I've extended his managerial career at Bradford and added some references. If you want anything else, let me know. But since his stay wasn't particularly long, I don't think there's an awful lot more to add. Peanut400:43, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Cheers for your help, any additions are welcomed. Would like to get it to at least Good Article status, if not featured. I'm less than halfway through the autobiography though, so still a long way to go. One thing you may be able to help with is getting more images of Robson to add to the article. The one in the article is pretty awful...that tracksuit! --Jameboy00:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Good work with the Robson article. Just one thing I've noticed. I've decided against changing it and thought would bring it to your attention but I'd changed all the dates to one format, probably e.g. October 16, 2007, to standardise it with the one that comes out in the Infobox. Peanut421:56, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Good point, cheers. As Robson is English I've changed all full dates to UK format e.g. 16 October, 2007. The date format can be set in user preferences for those that want to see it round the other way. Trust this is OK. --Jameboy22:28, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Ai that's fine. I just get the feeling it's probably best being the same throughout one article, though I'm not sure there is a right or wrong format. Peanut422:35, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for my star. It was no problem. Looking at his talk page, should have reported him to WP:AIV Doesn't seem to be active now so don't see the point. If he comes back again, just do it. By the way i have finally fixed the text leaking problem! (i think) Woodym55520:38, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I must say i am honoured to be the recipient of your new-found generosity!!! Thanks again. Re-reading my earlier comments i can also see how they could be misunderstood! Thanks for understanding. Right, now we have to start implementing them across the templates..... Woodym55521:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I know, i can't think of anything either, i had football manager listee ? LOL, really can't think of one that isn't convoluted. Woodym55522:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I go for 6 months being the limit for managers. I think only main managers should be listed in the template and list caretakers in the main manager list if you have one. We should probably go for some game limit to notability. I could probably put something whereby a * would show up if you filled in a caretaker parameter, i see little use out of it though. I will try and think of a name. If it is long, oh well. Woodym55522:20, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Ron Atkinson
To be honest, i think it looks bad, it also compresses the size of the manager templates so they get split onto more lines than normal. The succesion box issue is one for the WP:FOOTY project as a whole to make. I see it is an unneccessary duplicate, but that is my personal opinion. Woodym55515:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Hey Jameboy, sorry not to have gotten back to you sooner, but here's what I think about the articles you've discussed on my talk page.
West Bromwich Albion F.C. - this is in very good shape, I'd certainly pursue FA following an immediate peer review. Dare I suggest you look at Ipswich Town F.C. for some things, like turning the record section into prose, generating a graph of league finishes, proper fair use rationales for images (such as the old crest), citations for the particularly notable players etc? But a PR will pick theses up.
List of West Bromwich Albion F.C. managers - good stuff, but you probably should look elsewhere for stats on early managers rather than Soccerbase. Also, Mogga's stats need updating to current. But otherwise it's nearly there. I've never had much success in PR'ing a list so I'd take it to FLC and notify your Wikiproject chums to come calling.
Bob Taylor (footballer) - work on WP:CITE for citation placements, not convinced by fair use rationale for the DVD shot, usually if the guy's still alive you can get an appropriate image. It's certainly GA quality with a couple of tweaks, so another PR for GA in mind would be appropriate.
Bryan Robson - yes, as you say, some work to do, you'd need to clear off all the citation needed's as a minimum. Getting a player article to FA is tough, took me long enough with Sir Bobby... Anyway, keep up your hard work there and take it to PR with an FA in mind.
Hi, just to let you know, i've added a little to the article about his progress with Sheffield United. I have also added some references. Make any adjustments to it as you see fit (formating etc..). Keep up the good work. hawksworthm07:45, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Excellent, cheers. I'm still plugging away with the article, making slow but steady progress. One thing that we could do with at some point is to create a Sheffield United F.C. managers template. You're probably aware of the new standard template, of which Template:Middlesbrough F.C. managers is as good an example as any - ignore the West Brom one as I need to fix and update it. You're welcome to pick this task up if you have time, otherwise I will get around to it eventually. --Jameboy09:27, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Good work there. I made a couple of corrections to the dates. I'll tidy the WBA template up tomorrow, then the Robson article will be a lot tidier. --Jameboy19:51, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
If you know your Monty Python you should know that spam is both lovely and wonderful... I'll go have a look. Hoping to do a similar list of Baggies players but it may take me a while to do. --Jameboy16:55, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Spam spam spam spam spam etc Indeed. And thanks for correcting the fundamental flaw! That's what happens when you transpose stuff from a sandbox in a hurry..! The Rambling Man17:03, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
The Moston Menace
Probably, but he'll be getting more expensive with every goal. At the start of the season I'd have laughed if someone suggested he was worth £2 million. Looks to have been a beneficial loan for all parties. Oldelpaso22:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Jameboy. I couldn't help but notice that you have Inglis's book on stadiums. Is there anything on the early years of Villa Park? Me and Everlast are trying to get it up to FA and i think some of the sources are a bit unreliable, especially for the history section. Could you take a look and swap some of the bad ones for Inglis if available. Any text you could add to it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. Woodym55517:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
That is great. Can any of the Heroes and Villains facts be verified by the Inglis book? I think it was based off it anyway. Even so, thanks for all your time and effort. On another note the managers template now accepts the "manager" parameter. Just add a list after it and it should work! Thanks again. (and now i should probably go to sleep) Woodym55501:10, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Me too... I'm templated out. I have more to add on Villa Park but it's a start at least. I'll check on the above facts soon. --Jameboy01:14, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Whenever you feel like it would be great! We've still got a history article to clear up as well! Yepo, i'm all parsed out, i think the template standardisation is going great, good job! I will see what i can do with AWB tommorrow. (i have only just downaloaded it). Have some nourishment to keep you going and to thank you. (Now i really am going to get forty winks) Woodym55501:18, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Heroes and Villains facts
Confirmed, refuted or otherwise by the Inglis book:
It has been the home of Aston Villa Football Club since 1897. Confirmed
Villa previously played at Aston Park from 1874 to 1876 and Perry Barr from 1876 to 1897. Confirmed
The pitch was initially surrounded by a 24 feet (7.3 m) wide concrete cycle track ... Confirmed ... and a cinder running track. Can't find any mention of the cinder running track
When first built the stadium could house 40,000 spectators must of whom would stand in the open. Confirmed
It is one of the largest behind-the-goal stands in Europe. Book is too old to confirm or refute, due to interim developments
It was officially called the Aston Lower Grounds and it was situated in the former grounds of a Jacobean stately home, Aston Hall. Confirmed
The site had been used in the past as a Victorian amusement park, and also as a fishpond and kitchen garden belonging to the owner of Aston Hall, Sir Thomas Holte (the origin of the naming of the stand, the Holte End). Confirmed
This plan (to substantially expand the ground) was scrapped due to the outbreak of the First World War. Confirmed The running track was removed in 1914 ...Confirmed... when work started on the Trinity Road Stand and the ground was squared off. Only have the completion date of Trinity Road (1922). Can find nothing about squaring off.
When it was completed in 1922, ... date of completion Confirmed ... The Trinity Road Stand was considered the grandest in the land, complete with stained glass windows, Italian mosaics and a sweeping staircase. It was considered to be architect Archie Leitch's masterpiece. Unable to confirm or refute any of this, other than a mention of the sweeping staircase.
...the Holte End was not covered until 1962, and the old rounded roof of the Witton Lane Stand was not replaced until 1964. Confirmed
Around the same time Villa Park was made an all-seater stadium in response to the requirements of the Taylor Report. The Holte End was the last stand to conform to the report when it became a 13,500 seater stand which was the largest End stand in Europe upon completion. Book is too old to confirm or refute
In June 1996 under soil heating was installed. Book is too old to confirm or refute
The North Stand, which used to be known as the Witton End, was built in the late 1970s... Confirmed ...and is the most dated of Villa Park's stands. Book is too old to confirm or refute due to interim developments
The highest attendance recorded at Villa Park was 76,588. This was recorded on 2 March 1946 in an FA Cup 6th Round tie against Derby County. Confirmed, but a recent source should be used instead, due to the possibility (however remote) of this record having been broken.
That is absolutely perfect. Exactly what we needed. The more reliable the better and Inglis is one of the most reliable out there. Thanks for all your time and effort!! It was very much appreciated. Woodym55516:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Wimbledon
As per your edit summary, here's a little something I created, especially for you:
He has always said that he is a Villa fan although primarily because of the "beauty" of the stadium. (admittedly the one before Doug had a go at DIY). As long as we don't source non-neutral statements as though they were coming from a neutral source. I think the facts that we have sourced to him are fine. I think providing the link is good enough which was partly why I added it. Inglis is not associated with the club and he isn't a primary source. I think he is preferable to H&V, which I think copied him anyway. I am trying to locate the book he wrote about Villa Park but it is rare. I think his greatest obssession is that of architecture and Leitch in particular. Woodym55518:01, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
navbox changes
The border should have gone now. It is part of an attempt to have the VDE/Show/hide links the same colour as the title. It involves complicated code. It isn't working on my comp. Is it working for you? I am talking to someone about it at the moment, trying to work out a way forward. Woodym55522:11, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
The colour fix has been implemented now. The show/hide/VDE links are the same colour as the title and it is so much easier to see now, especially on the blue ones! Woodym55501:03, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for providing the cite. I had no doubt that it was true but such assertions always need to be supported by a reliable source. Keep up the good work! --John Maynard Friedman13:59, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Hey, sorry I've been out of touch on this, I'm back on it. Did you still wish to run a peer review in parallel with me making comments for GA? The Rambling Man13:32, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, happened to notice your edit summary regarding citing longest ever spell in the top flight. WP:OR#Sources says 'Research that consists of collecting and organizing material from existing sources within the provisions of this and other content policies is encouraged: this is "source-based research," and it is fundamental to writing an encyclopedia.' IMO, if you referenced the longest-ever spell to, say, the FCHD West Brom page, which shows finishing positions for every season, it would be consistent with source-based research as per the above quote, and therefore explicitly not WP:OR. You'd only be making explicit a verifiable fact contained in a reliable source.
Cheers, I will probably do what you suggested. Sorry about the Bruce thing, it was a bit wicked of me! Although it looks like he's definitely going anyway. --Jameboy (talk) 18:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi Jameboy, just wondered if you could cast your eyes over List of Everton F.C. managers as it's up for peer review with a view to taking it to WP:FLC. Thanks in advance for your time! 08:30, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
