User talk:Hyacinth/July 20 2015 - October 12 2018

Hauer tone rows

Hello, my Name is Paramelin, and i am from Austria. Propably you did initialize and mostly edit the page of the "list of tone rows and series". I think, it would be very important to consider the twelve tone series of Josef Matthias Hauer there. Not only that he wrote the first intentional twelve-tone-opus (Nomos. opus 19; aug. 1919 f.i. bar 1-36 ! [you edited?]). While in his earlier works more tone rows (f. e. through one trope) determined a work, in his later works, the so named "Zwölftonspiel" (1940-59 the whole piece is "born" from one single tone row. Also his Opera "Salambo" 1929 [before Kreneks Karl V !] is based on one series (B, F, Ab, C#, G, A ; Eb, F#, C, Bb, D, E). I could'nt believe that in your list i couldn't find a single twelve tone row from him … Best wishes, Paramelin Paramelin (talk) 11:13, 20 July 2015 (UTC)Paramelin (talk) 17:51, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

In English, at least, "tone row" implies an ordered collection. See: Talk:List of tone rows and series#Possible (unordered) tone rows. Hyacinth (talk) 15:38, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

An example: The "Zwölftonspiel. 3. Februar 1954" for piano is based on exactly one ordered collection: D, B, F#, E, A#, C#, D#, G, F, G#, C, A. I could give you many more examples of Hauer like this. Hauer often writes in the title of his late works: "… mit einer [!] Zwölftonreihe …". "Zwölftonspiele" didn't only use the earlier "Tropentechnik". I think, it should be no problem to count him in in your list. If you need help at this point, please use http://www.uni-graz.at/harald.fripertinger/db/ (under "search the database for musical information"; this year will appear a special issue to our studies in "mathematics and music") or write to me : peter_lackner@gmx.at. Best wishes. Paramelin (talk) 20:27, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

If you want me to add his rows to the list you may have to wait. You may add his rows to the list yourself, if you like. Hyacinth (talk) 13:21, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Then I will try to become more familiar with your normal-forms of rows and their inversions next week, and then add a smaller representative collection of Hauer - series. Thank You. Paramelin (talk) 17:51, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Concerns regarding FA quality

I've just tidied up The Long and Winding Road a little, and removed some unsourced trivia. The article doesn't appear to me as either FA or GA quality in terms of coverage, prose, and MoS requirements - it was promoted in 2004, and reviewed again in 2006, and hasn't been well maintained. I will not have the time to tidy up the article or take my concerns further, however it seems appropriate to raise those concerns rather than merely pass on by, so, per the stage one process at Wikipedia:Featured article review I have left a note on the article talkpage, and am notifying relevant Projects and those previously involved in promoting the article. It is unlikely I will be getting involved further. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 16:25, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Commons category template

Dear Hyacinth,

I guess this discussion Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_August_20#Category:Commons_category_template_with_no_category_set might interest. I suppose your input on this topic could be valuable. --Robby (talk) 21:27, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

wp:cln

[1]

I offered an explanation for your concern (Wikipedia talk:Categories, lists, and navigation templates#.7B.7Bclarify.7D.7DCurb Chain (talk) 21:56, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Challenge (internet) listed at Redirects for discussion

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Request for input

Should the Combination tone article you edited, which includes a section on Resultant tones include information about the use of resultant tones in heavy metal music power chords? For talk page discussion, see here.OnBeyondZebrax • TALK 02:31, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Splitting the List of music students by teacher pages.

Hi. I think is is time for some more splitting of the List of music students by teacher pages.

• List of music students by teacher: A to C size 122,999 bytes
• List of music students by teacher: D to F size 61,041 bytes
• List of music students by teacher: G to M size 191,659 bytes
• List of music students by teacher: N to S size 165,718 bytes
• List of music students by teacher: T to Z size 58,770 bytes

The two pages about 60kbytes load fairly comfortably, the others take far too long even on my quite powerful desktop machine, so I suggest that 60kbytes is a reasonable size to aim for, given the high template count on these pages.

Can you do this? --Mirokado (talk) 14:39, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I can do this. Today, as a first step, I created

• List of music students by teacher: A to B (89,669 bytes)

and moved "C" to

• List of music students by teacher: C to F (95,274 bytes)

And split "G to M" to

• List of music students by teacher: G to J (79,359 bytes)
• List of music students by teacher: K to M (118,528 bytes)

It looks like "A", "B to C", and "D to F" will have to be (re)created. "N to S" should be able to be split in half. Hyacinth (talk) 11:08, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

First step looks good, thanks for the quick response! --Mirokado (talk) 23:17, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

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Stravinsky Octet example on Counterpoint page

Hello, I've noticed that the example you've provided on the Counterpoint page, (under linear counterpoint) for the Stravinsky Octet is riddled with errors. I'm new to editing on Wikipedia, so if you could get in touch with me (so as to not waste space here), I'd really appreciate the opportunity to help you fix it. Thanks, J.annicchiarico (talk) 19:13, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

How would I know you are correct? Hyacinth (talk) 21:45, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Because I'm a graduate student in music writing my thesis on Stravinsky's neoclassical music :) J.annicchiarico (talk) 03:19, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

What is the symbol at half-diminished seventh chord?

Hi. The article has e.g. C^ø, with a superscript slashed oh. Is that right? This has no support in Unicode. I'm getting a proposal together for unsupported symbols, but want to be sure I don't mix things up. Should it really be C° with a slash? (I see we use both the degree sign and a superscript oh for 'diminished'; for all I know it should be a superscript zero and slashed zero.) Thanks.

Oh, do these need to be superscript, or is that just a stylistic choice? If no info is lost when the superscripting gets lost, then Unicode won't assign a code point to the superscript. — kwami (talk) 22:49, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

The circle means diminished. The circle with a slash means half diminished. They have to be superscript or they appear to be the letter "o". Hyacinth (talk) 00:11, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

So, they aren't superscript "o"? Are ^o (ᵒ) and ^ø technically wrong? It makes a difference how they'd be encoded. — kwami (talk) 03:46, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

The easiest thing to do is use {{Music}}. Hyacinth (talk) 05:07, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Okay. I assume that's a fudge, and I won't bother trying to add support to Unicode. — kwami (talk) 05:27, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

• 0, o, ^o, ^o, °
• ^ø, ^ø, ^ø, ø

The music manual of style policy or guideline is that certain things should be displayed a certain way. For example, a sharp symbol should be "♯" rather than "#" (unless, for instance, used in a monospace example) or "#". The easiest way to do this may be the use of {{music}}, which displays symbols in the approved manner using, if available, a unicode entity. If one types "{{music|diminished}}" the template displays "°" ("°"), which I assume is the unicode degree sign. If one types "{{music|half diminished}}" the template displays "^ø" ("^ø"). Hyacinth (talk) 20:42, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but my question was what is proper for music, not the best we can accommodate on WP. If it's supposed to be a slashed circle, not o or zero, then that would require different Unicode encoding than a slashed o (which can also be used for phonetic notation) or slashed zero (which might have mathematical uses). — kwami (talk) 22:02, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

I know nothing about coding for Unicode, but the symbols in question are exactly as Hyacinth has described them: superscript small circle (neither a lowercase letter "oh" nor a zero) for "diminished", and the same superscripted circle with a diagonal line through it (from low-left to high-right) for "half diminished". This is what is "proper for music". I believe that the "music" templates developed for Wikipedia are meant to produce this result, however it is accomplished technically.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 07:26, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I suspect that Unicode would want separate code points for the musical notation, then. — kwami (talk) 22:03, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Template:Score listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Template:Score. Since you had some involvement with the Template:Score redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Si Trew (talk) 06:23, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

• Actually, since it was unused, had desultory hits, and per the first bullet at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Header, I WP:BOLDly repurposed it to a template (it was a WP:XNR to Help:Score), and because nobody had commented on it (hardly had a chance), I just deleted the section from WP:RFD rather than ask for it to be formally closed. I've added a hatnote to Help:Score at the new Template:Score/doc. Hope that is OK with you. Si Trew (talk) 09:39, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Marie Serneholt

If you want to, please take a look at the article about Marie Serneholt, which is this weeks selected TAFI article. Regards,--BabbaQ (talk) 16:22, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

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A beer for you!

Hyacinth Wishing you a joyous Christmas and a prosperous new year! BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 14:56, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Another Stravinsky Error

Hello, I've found another error in your Stravinsky examples, this time on the Stravinsky Mass page. I'm currently writing my master's thesis on this piece, and I'd love to see this corrected. The pitch B double flat in the tenor/bass, m.1 is incorrect; especially in light of the A natural (same pitch) you've written in the next measure. I contacted you about an error in the Stravinsky Octet example too, to no avail. I would love to open a line of dialogue with you personally to help you fix your errors. Either respond to me here, or at my e-mail address, j [dot] annicchiarico [at] gmail [dot] com

Thanks! J.annicchiarico (talk) 16:56, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

See: WP:Cite. Hyacinth (talk) 08:55, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Notable logicians

Template:Notable logicians has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 18:29, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Hyacinth, Just a quick note of thanks for the many, many Template:reqinstrument tags you've recently added to articles on musical instruments which are currently without audio files. Your work is greatly appreciated. - Ryk72 ^'c.s.n.s.' 10:52, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

You're welcome. Hyacinth (talk) 11:20, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Willie Nelson - Crazy AABA.mid

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Orphaned non-free image File:Willie Nelson - Crazy AABA.png

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Audio files request at Gubal (instrument)

Hi Hyacinth, you added an audio files reqest on the talk page of the article "Gubal (instrument)". I invite you to discuss the own research and verifiability problem of this article: Talk:Gubal_(instrument) --Ixkeys (talk) 14:05, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Pythagorean comma audio

Left request on Pythagorean Comma talk page for an audio file that will give the higher and lower versions of (say) C first alternately so we can compare pitches, then simultaneously so we can hear the beats.CharlesHBennett (talk) 18:54, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

It turns out the file was mistaken (presumably both notes where C♮). Thanks for asking though, it should be fixed now. Hyacinth (talk) 08:02, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of List of jazz standards for deletion

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Template:MetaCat listed at Redirects for discussion

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Talkback

Hello, Hyacinth. You have new messages at Template talk:Chord progressions.
Message added 12:49, 17 January 2016 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hi, sorry to bother you but you seem to have been a prolific editor there and I'd love to know your view. Thanks! DBaK (talk) 12:49, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks for all your work on this. I'm knocked out. Cheers DBaK (talk) 23:44, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Does this ring any bells? :) Best wishes DBaK (talk) 23:30, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Two years ago ...

thoughts on music
... you were recipient no. 762 of Precious, a prize of QAI!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:11, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Three years now! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:54, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Template talk

Dear Hyacinth

I'm sorry, but on many levels I am not very good at this and I am finding it difficult to understand our conversation at the chord template talk page.

Obviously I must be missing the point in some fairly massive way and if I am, as I suspect, being stupid then I apologise.

I would be most grateful if you could please just explain to me the point(s) that you wish to make and I will then try to respond.

Thanks and best wishes

DBaK (talk) 14:57, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

I assume English is not your first language. Do you agree or disagree?

You stated: "I don't understand why this template has an entry for I–V–vi–IV ("pop-punk") piped to I–V–vi–IV progression." This is the equivalent of asking, "Why does this template an entry for I–V–vi–IV ("pop-punk") piped to I–V–vi–IV progression?" Do you agree or disagree?

Hyacinth (talk) 03:22, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the reply. I'm still a bit baffled, and feel as if we are moving towards some grand denouement in which you'll suddenly explain the whole thing and I will in a flash of illumination become wiser but sadder. I really wish that you would simply state the problem; rightly or wrongly I currently feel that you are playing some sort of game with me.

You have, however, asked me questions, which seem at least to hold the promise of progress, so let me try to answer them in good faith.

1. English is my first language. If, however, it helps with clarity when you explain the problem to me, please feel free to assume that it is not.

2. I do agree that the two statements that you offer are broadly equivalent.

Now, please, please, tell me what the problem is here?

Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 07:15, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

It may at all not be stupidity on your side that is causing this confusion between us, it may be entirely my stupidity. I would not agree that there is a "problem" here, or between us, just an extended conversation. I feel that you asked a question, which I would be happy to answer (if I knew an answer). However, I, apparently, don't understand the question. Hyacinth (talk) 07:21, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the nice reply. I've just dashed into a rehearsal, but will try to respond properly as soon as possible. Best wishes, DBaK (talk) 08:05, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Right then. With apologies for what I may have misunderstood, or just missed, here is what I think happened:

• 12:47, 17 January 2016 I ask the question, saying ""I don't understand why this template has an entry for I–V–vi–IV ("pop-punk") piped to I–V–vi–IV progression", which, as you say, is equivalent to "Why does this template [have] an entry for I–V–vi–IV ("pop-punk") piped to I–V–vi–IV progression?"
• 12:49, 17 January 2016 I send you a TB message to this page, hoping to ensure that you have seen the above.
• 16:55, 17 January 2016 You remove one instance of "pop-punk" from the template.
• 16:56, 17 January 2016 You remove the other instance of "pop-punk" from the template.
• 17:26, 17 January 2016 You add the "pop-punk" wording to the I–V–vi–IV progression article, and develop it in in subsequent edits.
• 23:44, 17 January 2016 Seeing that you have fixed it, I thank you on this page; I am assuming that your edits above are at least in part a response to my question. I appreciate the fact that you have removed the anomaly from the template and introduced the term and an example at the target article, where I suspect it is more comfortable.
• Silence ensues for a month.
• 22:43, 17 February 2016 You ask me a question which I find confusing, namely 'What do you mean? This template doesn't contain the words "pop", "punk", or "pop-punk".' The reason I am confused by this is that we both know that it did contain those terms a month earlier, when I asked the question, but you fixed it; I cannot see what was wrong with my question at the time ... a question to which I assumed that your editing actions were to some extent a response.
• Confusion ensues for some days.

And here we are. Please feel free to deconfuse me.

With all good wishes DBaK (talk) 12:12, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Joseph Yasser

Hello! Your submission of Joseph Yasser at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 22:40, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Please see new note on your DYK nomination. Yoninah (talk) 21:51, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Paul-André Bempéchat

I deleted this as a WP:A7. The subject questioned the deletion on my talk page. I know you have an interest in music and would appreciate it if you would look at the article and see if you think the article should be restored. -- GB fan 00:20, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

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DYK for Joseph Yasser

— Coffee // have a cup // beans // 12:01, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

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Creating categories

Hyacinth, don't you think it might be appropriate to consult the relevant Wikiproject before you create new categories? I suspect the huge number of Graph categories you just created would be even more controversial for mathematicians than the Works with Dedication category you created for classical music. Sincerely, Opus33 (talk) 17:25, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Impostor

That wasn't me. That was an impostor User:Linguist1111, who was forging my signature. Linguist 111^talk 23:23, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

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Pronic number

Hi. I don't understand how File:Pronic number Cuisenaire rods 6.png demonstrates that 6 is a pronic number. 6 is a pronic number because it 6 = 2 x (2 + 1), but I don't see how your diagram shows that. Can you explain what I am missing ? Thanks Gandalf61 (talk) 09:54, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

I agree, I think that showing 6 = 5+1 is not helpful to understand that 6 is a pronic number. Besides, the is a diagram under As figurate numbers that already does a good job at illustrating pronic numbers. Dhrm77 (talk) 13:00, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

You changed the picture, but the new one is equally confusing. How does showing 6=5+1 or 12=11+1 help to demonstrate what a pronic number is? In the case of 12, if we saw 4 sections of 3 or 3 sections of 4, that might help... for 6, 2 sections of 3 or 3 sections of 2... Dhrm77 (talk) 23:44, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Indeed. The new diagram does not help. And the text you wrote with it suggests that a pronic number is always 1 greater than a prime number, which is incorrect - 56, for example, is a pronic number but 55 is not prime. I have removed the diagram from the article. If you have another proposed diagram, please can we review it at Talk:Pronic number. Gandalf61 (talk) 06:01, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Your picture image:Prime number Cuisenaire rods 7.png

I would like to make a few suggestions about your picture:

• the use of colors might be a little too confusing. I suggest you use only 2 colors for the bars. use 1 color for what the multiples of a divisor that fits in 7, and another color for the remainder. That would make it less confusing.
• be more consistent with remainders. On the second line you have 7 = 1 + (2*3), but on the sixth line you have 7 = 6 + 1 (remainder of 1 on the left, versus on the right).
• You could use numbers of different colors to separate divisors, dividend and remainder.

example:

7 = (7 * 1) + 0

7 = (3 * 2) + 1

7 = (2 * 3) + 1

7 = (1 * 4) + 3

7 = (1 * 5) + 2

7 = (1 * 6) + 1

7 = (1 * 7) + 0

Hope this helps. Dhrm77 (talk) 12:45, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

The Cuisenaire rods have a colour depending on their length, please see the article. The illustrations, being of these rods, are correct to show the colour for each rod. --Mirokado (talk) 13:21, 29 April 2016 (UTC) (talk page stalker)

WP:CAT#T

Can you locate the consensus for WP:CAT#T? The original addition was made by you, briefly reverted, restored, and then the only subsequent challenge that I bumped into was at Wikipedia talk:Categorization/Archive 15#Wikipedia:Categorization.23Template categorization, but I can find no other talk page discussion regarding the section, and especially none supporting it originally. Can you help? --Izno (talk) 02:13, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Everything on Wikipedia is contributed by an editor and is new at one point. Are you asking me about the link "WP:CAT#T", or about the content of the section linked to? As with articles and categories, a link and the content linked to are different things. Hyacinth (talk) 02:54, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm not asking you about your rationale for addition, nor about the link. I'm asking you to identify where, on any set of pages, others actively agreed that the section in question should exist, or that it should say what you added therein. --Izno (talk) 03:00, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

You provided me with a link to a discussion where two people agree with WP:CAT#T. I feel like if I searched around long enough I would find a spot where the policy/practice was suggested to me (causing me to add it to WP:CAT), but I (currently) don't feel willing to search through the histories of WP:CAT, Category:Wikipedia categories.

Are you looking for rationale out of curiosity or because you oppose or support the policy/practice at WP:CAT#T? Hyacinth (talk) 03:13, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm planning an AWB run to remove a number of templates categorized incorrectly according to the guideline--given that its addition to the guideline does not have an obvious consensus, that AWB run would be inappropriate per the rules for use of AWB. I happen to support the guideline along the same principles that have driven maintenance categories to be hidden from user-sight. --Izno (talk) 03:16, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Confusing code at Template Optical illusions

Hello!  :) Could you please tell me what this does? Many thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 18:14, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Why? If one look[s Hyacinth (talk) 15:59, 23 May 2016 (UTC)] at Template:If, Template:Str left, and Template:Pagename, one can see that the if the article name begins with Penrose (a seven letter word), the word "Penrose" is bolded, such that if one looks at Penrose triangle, the template bolds not only the word "triangle", but also the word "Penrose". Hyacinth (talk) 18:20, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Ah okay. You are very clever. I don't know how people learn all that code stuff. It just looks like chicken scratch to me. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 18:24, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

If you would ever like me to attempt to explain any code or template I would be happy to try. Hyacinth (talk) 15:50, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Template:Pagename spits out the article title. Template:Str left trims its content (Template:Pagename) down to the first seven characters, since Penrose is a seven letter word. Template:If tests if its content is "Penrose" and if so spits out "Penrose" with the apostrophes needed to bold a word, and if not spits out "Penrose" without bolding. Hyacinth (talk) 16:17, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Template:Italics listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Template:Italics. Since you had some involvement with the Template:Italics redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. PanchoS (talk) 12:43, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Template:Italic listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Template:Italic. Since you had some involvement with the Template:Italic redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. PanchoS (talk) 12:44, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Suggestion of moving "Aspect of music" to "Elements of music"

Hyacinth, from your recent modifications to Aspect of music, I deduce that you didn't completely loose interest in that article. You will have read in its talk page that your advice about its (re)naming is much needed, as you were its creator. It seems to me that the arguments exchanged on this talk page about the change of name are worth taking in account, but I am among those interested in your opinion (here or there). Thanks in advance — Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 19:58, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Template:American Five

A tag has been placed on Template:American Five requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

relates to deleted article; 'americn

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, pages that meet certain criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Smerus (talk) 08:01, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Template:Armenian Mighty Handful

A tag has been placed on Template:Armenian Mighty Handful requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

relates to deleted article; 'Armenian mighty ' was WP:OR invention

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, pages that meet certain criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Smerus (talk) 08:03, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

2016 Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Search Community Survey

The Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation has appointed a committee to lead the search for the foundation’s next Executive Director. One of our first tasks is to write the job description of the executive director position, and we are asking for input from the Wikimedia community. Please take a few minutes and complete this survey to help us better understand community and staff expectations for the Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director.

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Thank you, The Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Search Steering Committee via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:48, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Proportional string fingering image

Your image [2] which appears on the String instrument page, has this explanatory text: "String fingering is proportional and not fixed." Yet it appears to be an orphan within the article, as I can find no relevant text, particularly in the section Production of multiple notes which is where one might expect to read an explanation of the proportionality of fingering. Despite my education in mathematics, physics and playing stringed instruments, I'm at a loss to understand exactly what the captions bracketing pairs of notes: 1/2, 1/4, 3/4 refer to. For example, I'd expect the 1/2 to be the relationship between stopped string length for the C on the bass staff and the C below it, as they're an octave apart; yet the 1/2 appears between the low C and its fifth, the low G on the staff. Readers without benefit of my background may be even more confused.

Would you please make time to revisit the image, to confirm that it does convey the information you intended it to? Thanks for reading! yoyo (talk) 09:25, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

We should check first with Walter Piston's 1955 Orchestration, p.5. Hyacinth (talk) 21:02, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Redirection of Countermelody

I just noticed that you had recently redirected Countermelody to Hauptstimme. Although I see the connection between the two, I also note that Countermelody is by far the more commonly-used term. Was there any discussion of this redirect that you can point me to? If not, how would you feel about me undoing the redirect (and adding Hauptstimme as a 'See Also' link)? NewYorkActuary (talk) 02:40, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

• I changed it back. I'm sorry, the change wasn't helpful to navigation as "countermelody" is described in the lead of "counter-melody as a common alternate spelling. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:26, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Category:Aspects of music has been nominated for discussion

Category:Aspects of music, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. – Fayenatic London 15:25, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedia impossible musical instrument audio files has been nominated for discussion

Category:Wikipedia impossible musical instrument audio files, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Ricky81682 (talk) 00:48, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Please email me,

Via my userpage. It's important. Thanks. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 02:42, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

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Brass instrument with quarter tone lowering

Hello Hyacinth. If a trumpet or flugelhorn is given 4th valve which lowers by quarter tone, such as this one ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcLYqjYmYFM ), what are all the notes the instrument can produce? For example, would that give me 24-tone equal temperament (24-TET), or something else? --Nusaybah (talk) 03:27, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

A valve that lowers a note by a quarter tone, that can be combined with the other valves in trumpet that can attain 12-tet, should provide one with 24-tet. For example, F/E should be obtainable through using the valve(s) that allows the perfect fourth with the valve that allows the quarter tone. The addition of this valve to a pre-existing 12-tet trumpet may want to be avoided, as adding a valve may affect the necessary placement of the existing valves.

In the image at Trumpet#Fingering, one can see that the notes 0 (open), e (2), t (1), 9 (1-2), 8 (2-3), 7 (1-3), 6 (1-2-3) can be reached (inversion allows 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6); the full chromatic scale. Valve two lowers by a half step, valve one by a whole step, and valve three by three half steps.

Presumably the fourth valve should allow all notes in 24-tet (11.5 = 4, 10.5 = 2-4, 9.5 = 1-4, etc.), but I don't know how the fingering works on brass instruments and couldn't tell you much about the 12-tet ones.

Hyacinth (talk) 05:31, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

One problem is that brass instruments play the overtones (changed by lip pressure) of the fundamental, which is changed by the valves. Thus one has access to more pitches in the higher ranges, but these are in just intonation and not 12-tet, and notes become rapidly more difficult to produce as the register goes higher. Even before one adds any valves there are already difficulties playing in 12-tet (see: Bugle call). Measured in cents, any note in 12-tet should be divisible by 100, any note in 24-tet should be divisible by 50. Assuming that valve two lowers by a 12-tet half step, and that valve four lowers by a 24-tet quarter step, it allows additional pitches as follows:

Available pitches

Harmonic	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8
C: cents	0	0	701.96	0	386.31	701.96	968.83	0
C/B: cents	1150	1150	651.96	1150	336.31	651.96	918.83	1150
B: cents	1100	1100	601.96	1100	286.31	601.96	868.83	1100

Trumpet players have to learn how to adjust for these differences (raising the fifth harmonic from 386.31 to about 400). I assume that adding a valve both makes it a little or a lot easier and a little or a lot harder to play the trumpet (in 12-tet). Hyacinth (talk) 04:18, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Short metre listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Short metre. Since you had some involvement with the Short metre redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Thryduulf (talk) 11:45, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Category:Nonexistent or unplayable musical instruments has been nominated for discussion

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Accessed

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Orphaned non-free image File:Hollabackgirl.mid

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Signposts

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Extended confirmed protection

Hello, Hyacinth. This message is intended to notify administrators of important changes to the protection policy.

Extended confirmed protection (also known as "30/500 protection") is a new level of page protection that only allows edits from accounts at least 30 days old and with 500 edits. The automatically assigned "extended confirmed" user right was created for this purpose. The protection level was created following this community discussion with the primary intention of enforcing various arbitration remedies that prohibited editors under the "30 days/500 edits" threshold to edit certain topic areas.

In July and August 2016, a request for comment established consensus for community use of the new protection level. Administrators are authorized to apply extended confirmed protection to combat any form of disruption (e.g. vandalism, sock puppetry, edit warring, etc.) on any topic, subject to the following conditions:

• Extended confirmed protection may only be used in cases where semi-protection has proven ineffective. It should not be used as a first resort.
• A bot will post a notification at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard of each use. MusikBot currently does this by updating a report, which is transcluded onto the noticeboard.

Please review the protection policy carefully before using this new level of protection on pages. Thank you.
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Disambiguation link notification for October 4

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Score

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Nomination for deletion of Template:R to article without mention

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WP:OVERLINK

"Nightclub singer" is a common English phrase. It should not generally be linked, per WP:OVERLINK, because you don't want people to click away from an article about a film, musical or person just to read what they already know: that a nightclub singer is someone who sings in a nightclub. -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:38, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

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Could you check my revert of a cut-and-paste move?

Hi, Hyacinth. Another (not very experienced) editor tried to make Augmented seventh chord into a dab page by cutting and pasting the content into Augmented minor seventh chord. (They may be right that the term is ambiguous, but then again, both terms may be covered in the first article. I know so little about music that I can't tell.) I tried to revert both articles to how they were before the cut and paste, but I'm uncertain that they're okay now. Would you check them out to be sure? I'm pretty sure a page-history merge isn't necessary, because there were very few edits on the pages before I reverted. Thanks! — Gorthian (talk) 19:40, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

When I checked the history of Augmented minor seventh chord I had redirected it to Augmented seventh chord, so I am okay with the redirect. Hyacinth (talk) 03:00, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Audio effects

Template:Audio effects has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Frietjes (talk) 22:19, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Two-Factor Authentication now available for admins

Hello,

Please note that TOTP based two-factor authentication is now available for all administrators. In light of the recent compromised accounts, you are encouraged to add this additional layer of security to your account. It may be enabled on your preferences page in the "User profile" tab under the "Basic information" section. For basic instructions on how to enable two-factor authentication, please see the developing help page for additional information. Important: Be sure to record the two-factor authentication key and the single use keys. If you lose your two factor authentication and do not have the keys, it's possible that your account will not be recoverable. Furthermore, you are encouraged to utilize a unique password and two-factor authentication for the email account associated with your Wikimedia account. This measure will assist in safeguarding your account from malicious password resets. Comments, questions, and concerns may be directed to the thread on the administrators' noticeboard. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:33, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

A new user right for New Page Patrollers

Hi Hyacinth.

A new user group, New Page Reviewer, has been created in a move to greatly improve the standard of new page patrolling. The user right can be granted by any admin at PERM. It is highly recommended that admins look beyond the simple numerical threshold and satisfy themselves that the candidates have the required skills of communication and an advanced knowledge of notability and deletion. Admins are automatically included in this user right.

It is anticipated that this user right will significantly reduce the work load of admins who patrol the performance of the patrollers. However,due to the complexity of the rollout, some rights may have been accorded that may later need to be withdrawn, so some help will still be needed to some extent when discovering wrongly applied deletion tags or inappropriate pages that escape the attention of less experienced reviewers, and above all, hasty and bitey tagging for maintenance. User warnings are available here but very often a friendly custom message works best.

If you have any questions about this user right, don't hesitate to join us at WT:NPR. (Sent to all admins).MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:47, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

All Music/Jeremy Grimshaw

Just removed the addition of 'Jeremy Grimshaw' and the 'Contriutors' section of the AllMusic article. It was a promo for someone without the notability to warrant an article. No other contributors were mentioned. It was a laundry list of the person's achievements, with no relation to the article—plainly a plug. Tapered (talk) 04:25, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Added Grimshaw to new contributors' list with ref. Tapered (talk) 20:00, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Hyacinth. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. Mdann52 (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Hyacinth. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Challenges

Template:Challenges has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. KATMAKROFAN (talk) 03:35, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Copyvio on Pauline Oliveros

Hello, just a heads up that I removed some very old (2006) copyvio that you (probably mistakenly) seem to have added to the Pauline Oliveros article. For example, your phrase "Sonic awareness is the ability to consciously focus attention on environmental and musical sound" is used unquoted and is a direct match for text in this 1980 essay by Heidi Von Gurden. I thought I would give you aheads up so you could fix the quotes or text if desired.104.163.154.161 (talk) 07:09, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

PS: I see you are an admin, so perhaps you could take care of the revdel on the older material that appears as copyvio in the history? Thanks104.163.154.161 (talk) 07:13, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Drone audio file request

Hi,

I have seen your request. Here is a track I suggest you. It is CC-BY-SA-3.0 licensed. Morever, it can be edited from the source project like a vector image. If you need, I can find lots of open content tracks in almost all electronic music genres. Ftiercel (talk) 16:31, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Use APA style

Template:Use APA style has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 00:37, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Use MLA style

Template:Use MLA style has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 00:37, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Gripping sailor's hitch

Gripping sailor's hitch should not redirect to Sailor's hitch (a different knot).
Instead, it should be removed, and Gripping Sailor's hitch moved to its place.
Thanks. --John Navas (talk) 02:09, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Fixed. --John Navas (talk) 16:08, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Template:Irish music

Can you explain why you moved Template:Irish music to Template:Music of Ireland. Your explanation"parallelism" says absolutely nothing to me and I also fail to see any prior discussion about the move. The Banner talk 11:50, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Words generally don't speak, people do, so it makes sense that a term, "parallelism", didn't say anything to you. Did you look up the term "Irish"? An example of a template similar to {{Irish music}} would be {{Italian music}}. Hyacinth (talk) 12:01, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Did you ever realize that "Irish music" is more a music style than confined to the island of Ireland? And that it is played all over the world? The Banner talk 12:28, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

According to Merriam-Webster, Irish means, "natives or inhabitants of Ireland or their descendants especially when of Celtic speech or culture." Hyacinth (talk) 12:35, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Aha, you take the narrow approach focused on the people, not on the music. But there are many band from outside Ireland and without Irish ancestry that play Irish music, for example the Dutch band Rapalje. The Banner talk 13:11, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

No, you take a narrow approach to the meaning of the term "of". Hyacinth (talk) 13:13, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

I have put in a request for other people to look at this discussion and your contentious move. The Banner talk 21:40, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Is there is a reason or are there reasons to oppose the move? Hyacinth (talk) 04:13, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

I absolutely disagree with limiting the term "Irish music" to Irish traditional music only. This is a popular misunderstanding, alright, but it remains a misunderstanding. The term "Irish music" should include pop, rock, jazz and classical music, and everything in between. In short, I agree with Hyacinth. – Aklein62 (talk) 16:07, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Linking a Wikibooks Disscussion

- b:WB:Reading room/Projects#Proposal_for_a_Guide_to_Musical_Instruments...

Would you be interested in contributing to such a project? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:09, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter - February 2017

News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2017). This first issue is being sent out to all administrators, if you wish to keep receiving it please subscribe. Your feedback is welcomed.

Administrator changes

NinjaRobotPirate • Schwede66 • K6ka • Ealdgyth • Ferret • Cyberpower678 • Mz7 • Primefac • Dodger67

Briangotts • JeremyA • BU Rob13

Guideline and policy news

• A discussion to workshop proposals to amend the administrator inactivity policy at Wikipedia talk:Administrators has been in process since late December 2016.
• Wikipedia:Pending changes/Request for Comment 2016 closed with no consensus for implementing Pending changes level 2 with new criteria for use.
• Following an RfC, an activity requirement is now in place for bots and bot operators.

Technical news

• When performing some administrative actions the reason field briefly gave suggestions as text was typed. This change has since been reverted so that issues with the implementation can be addressed. (T34950)
• Following the latest RfC concluding that Pending Changes 2 should not be used on the English Wikipedia, an RfC closed with consensus to remove the options for using it from the page protection interface, a change which has now been made. (T156448)
• The Foundation has announced a new community health initiative to combat harassment. This should bring numerous improvements to tools for admins and CheckUsers in 2017.

Arbitration

• The Arbitration Committee released a response to the Wikimedia Foundation's statement on paid editing and outing.

Obituaries

• JohnCD (John Cameron Deas) passed away on 30 December 2016. John began editing Wikipedia seriously during 2007 and became an administrator in November 2009.

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Discuss this newsletter • Subscribe • Archive

13:37, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

...

Hi how can I follow you on twitter?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aliresajavann (talk • contribs) 02:42, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Sexuality listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Wikipedia:Sexuality. Since you had some involvement with the Wikipedia:Sexuality redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 18:58, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:List of string figures/sandbox

Hello, Hyacinth. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "sandbox".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. — O Fortuna! ^{Imperatrix mundi.} 10:31, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

MIDI pitch bends

Hyacinth, since you didn't reply any further to the discussion at Talk:Pythagorean comma#Audio sample correct?, I thought this problem was understood. You have done these calculations correctly in the past, so I'm surprised you recently linked a newly created file containing the same mathematical error. I have noticed hundreds more in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Harmonics but have left alone any that are not linked to an article. Please check files and remove any errors before linking them the encyclopedia. Burninthruthesky (talk) 10:41, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Isometre for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Isometre is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Isometre until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 14:05, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Request

Hello Hyacinth. If your time permits, please review this edit where I contested a technical request to move a page you created in 2004. Your insight will be helpful in this regard. Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 08:33, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Stock sound effects

Template:Stock sound effects has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 02:41, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

April 2017

Constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, but your recent edits, such as those to Pythagorean comma, appear to be intentional disruptions designed to illustrate a point. Edits designed for the deliberate purpose of drawing opposition, including making edits you do not agree with or enforcing a rule in a generally unpopular way, are highly disruptive and can lead to a block or ban. If you feel that a policy is problematic, the policy's talk page is the proper place to raise your concerns. If you simply disagree with someone's actions in an article, discuss it on the article talk page or, if direct discussion fails, through dispute resolution. If consensus strongly disagrees with you even after you have made proper efforts, then respect the consensus, rather than trying to sway it with disruptive tactics.

Having previously argued that the error in your MIDI file was "only" 1.44 cents, you are now repeatedly inserting edits to the article which highlight an unavoidable inaccuracy of 0.0019 cents. The difference is a thousandfold. Burninthruthesky (talk) 06:58, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

What edits, besides those to Pythagorean comma? Hyacinth (talk) 03:24, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

It was primarily your edits at Pythagorean comma that prompted the warning, although your recent attempts to insert new, unsourced claims about rounding into the WP:LEDE of Vagueness [3][4] are a further cause for concern. Now Jochen_Burghardt has raised further objections I hope, if you still wish to pursue the matter, you will do so by discussion rather than continued WP:Edit warring. Burninthruthesky (talk) 10:33, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Concerning Vagueness, I don't have principal objections. However, it should be clearly stated for which concept(vagueness? or ambiguity?) rounding is an example, in which respect, and why; and of course, a source should be given in the long run. - Jochen Burghardt (talk) 21:48, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Not enough templates

Template:Not enough templates has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. KMF (talk) 22:28, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Tiling Categories...

I'm heading to bed, let me know if there is an area that you would want me to do in the future.Naraht (talk) 04:06, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 29

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Wiki Loves Music

Hi Hyacinth, I just saw that you are interested in finding audio recordings of musical instruments. Well, the WikiProject Wiki Loves Music on German Wikipedia is just about that. Maybe we should discuss this together? :-) --Gnom (talk) 11:45, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

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Map?

There are already at least two global maps at Sea level rise. What did you have in mind? (Please answer at the article talk page for everyone's benefit)NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 01:03, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Bypassing template redirects

Hi. I've noticed you've been editing {{reqphoto}} on talk pages into {{Photo requested}}, bypassing the redirect. Is there any specific reason for this? Seems like a lot of work that won't result in any changes. --Paul_012 (talk) 23:23, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:Rite of Spring opening bassoon.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Rite of Spring opening bassoon.mid

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Orphaned non-free image File:Star Wars The March of the Empire.png

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Editorials

Template:Editorials has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Enterprisey (talk!) 04:16, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Template:Dimensions

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Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice that the page you created, Template:Dimensions, was tagged as a test page under section G2 of the criteria for speedy deletion and has been or soon may be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 01:27, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Struck idiophones

Template:Struck idiophones has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 12:53, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Hawaiian cone listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Hawaiian cone. Since you had some involvement with the Hawaiian cone redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Deacon Vorbis (talk) 04:31, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Hawaiian Earring, etc

Hi,

I'm having some trouble understanding why you seem to be fixating on a couple specific statements about this one specific space, especially after being reverted. It doesn't seem to be very helpful since what you're tagging is often among other statements that would warrant citations just as well if this one did. So for the moment, I'm just asking you to stop. If you have any specific questions about topology or the Hawaiian Earring, perhaps I could help with those. --Deacon Vorbis (talk) 13:56, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. How would I cite you in an article? Hyacinth (talk) 22:46, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Do you think Wikipedia should have citations? Hyacinth (talk) 22:52, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Template link templates

Template:Template link templates has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 05:57, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Add informations please don't remove

For your information:

About Universal Harmony (ref golden ratio): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkHiV2SvATk

About therapeutic music: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_therapy, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats, https://www.google.ro/search?source=hp&q=healing+music

Add informations please don't remove if you have the necessary knowledge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mariusmta (talk • contribs) 02:07, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

File:Mozart 256th notes.mid

Would you mind redoing this at a sensible speed for the playback? Mozart marks Molto Adagio cantabile for this section, so I would expect a more sensible speed like = 40 or 44 to be representative of what he presumably meant to be heard, not the impossibility we hear now. Thanks in advance. Double sharp (talk) 13:49, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

See: molto adagio. Hyacinth (talk) 19:08, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Not being used in article the file should be deleted, not updated. Hyacinth (talk) 19:14, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

I assume you meant the file should be slower: = 44? Hyacinth (talk) 19:35, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Done. Hyacinth (talk) 20:37, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

I meant = 40 (twice as slow); even the current version is too fast to actually play on a real instrument. The metre seems to be clearly one of those cases when Mozart writes ²
₄ but means what we would call ⁴
₈. (Sorry for not mentioning this earlier; I was editing from my phone and couldn't open it.) Double sharp (talk) 15:04, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you! Double sharp (talk) 05:48, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

You're welcome. Thanks for asking! Hyacinth (talk) 06:58, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Mysterioso Pizzicato

Hey! I saw that two years ago you made this edit, adding the "step step step" bit. I'm not sure that's cited to anything or if it needs to be, but is there some better way of displaying it? Any ideas? Seems pretty irregular how it is right now... ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 19:47, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Plus symbol for major triads

Greetings! I just encountered your excellent musical examples at Lay Lady Lay. I’m very glad to see the notes explained with such musical clarity. On closer inspection of your examples I see you have labeled all the major triads with +, perhaps to distinguish them from – for minor. I have not seen this usage anywhere; where – is used for minor, + means an augmented triad, and no symbol means a major triad. Pls comment, thanks. MJ (t • c) 21:55, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

I bet you you'd find this labeling system used if you look in: Capuzzo, Guy. (2004). Music Theory Spectrum, Vol. 26, No. 2. University of California Press. p. 188. Hyacinth (talk) 22:29, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

@Mark R Johnson: I've altered the images though, since they aren't used in other articles and there is no discussion of the less standard chord symbols in the "Lay Lady Lay" article, thus it required no other changes and was easier than adding an unnecessary discuss of chord symbols to an article about a song, and now the images use a more standard chord symbol system. Hyacinth (talk) 00:08, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

I appreciate the change very much. I hesitated to ask in the first place because I wondered whether you had done lots of other examples in the same style. Then when I saw the site you referenced above, I decided not to try to argue against an academic style. I agree that the more standard system will be understood much more easily. Cheers. MJ (t • c) 00:20, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for asking about it. I feel like I made this image a long time ago, but apparently I made it in 2009. Hyacinth (talk) 00:50, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

14 years of editing, today

Hey, Hyacinth. I'd like to wish you a wonderful First Edit Day on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! Chris Troutman (talk) 13:38, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Category:All musical groups by numbers has been nominated for discussion

Category:All musical groups by numbers, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:25, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

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Category:Patagonian musical groups has been nominated for discussion

Category:Patagonian musical groups, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 22:53, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Idiophones

Template:Idiophones has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 04:54, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Splitting out musical groups by number cats

I have nominated several specific categories today and yesterday (see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 October 4#Category:Musical sextets for example) which you may wish to comment on, based on the previous discussion. Mangoe (talk) 14:57, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

CfD and Deletion of Category:Musical decets

Hi Hyacinth, Category:Musical decets was nominated by @Mangoe: for deletion as part of a large group here the outcome of which was to break up the nomination so the category was renominated individually here. That second nomination is not a week old yet so it's still open and there are no comments replying to the merits of the nomination, although there are procedural comments from you and @Michael Bednarek:. The category was deleted by you with the edit note "Trivial and non-defining".

Would you mind giving a little more background on your decision to delete this and a couple similar categories? Thanks!RevelationDirect (talk) 09:51, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

@RevelationDirect: The more you ask, the more I can answer. Hyacinth (talk) 10:04, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Were you relying on a speedy criteria under WP:CFDS? If not, would you be willing restore the categories so we can discuss them for fully in the CFD nomination? Thanks. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:22, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Having looked into the history I see that Hyacinth created the category herself on 14 Sept, and immediately added it to Mangoe's CFD nomination.[5] Ordinarily, she would be entitled to speedily delete it under WP:G7. However, once it had been nominated for discussion, then it would have been best practice to leave the discussion to run its course. Moreover, other editors had added pages to the category.[6] I will therefore reinstate it. – Fayenatic London 22:13, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Oh, okay, that background helps and makes the actions much clearer. (Once it's deleted, I didn't know how to check the history.) RevelationDirect (talk) 08:59, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Category:Musical quintets

Hello Hyacinth. You seem to have deleted Category:Musical quintets in error; the relevant CFD was closed as "keep". Can you please undo your deletion? Thanks, 28bytes (talk) 12:59, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

I have undone this for you. – Fayenatic London 23:31, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

File:Non-Pythagorean Scale Comparison.jpg

Where exactly is the watermark in that image? If it is the copyright notice, I originally thought it can't be called as such. --Kailash29792 (talk) 01:50, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

It sounds like you are arguing that this image is NOT free and should not be moved to commons. WP:WATERMARK: "Free images should not be watermarked, distorted, have any credits or titles in the image itself or anything else that would hamper their free use." Hyacinth (talk) 00:21, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

You got me wrong. I don't care whether the image remains here or shifts to Commons, I just do not understand why it has the "watermark" tag, because I cannot find any watermark in the image. The text (C) 2007 Robert Schneider http://www.appleinstereo.com is part of the image when created, as opposed to being an after-added watermark, isn't it? I have been working quite relentlessly to reduce the number of images in the category "Images with watermarks". --Kailash29792 (talk) 16:50, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Are you arguing it is a "historic image"? Hyacinth (talk) 02:41, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

{{Imagewatermark}} reads "This image contains digital watermarking or credits in the image itself." Hyacinth (talk) 02:47, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

I assume the most direct way to move files out of Category:Images with watermarks and credits is to remove the watermarks and credits from the images. Am I missing something? Hyacinth (talk) 03:00, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Whitehead link unknotting number

On the page for the Whitehead link, you wrote that it has unknotting number 2. This looks like a mistake; it should have unknotting number 1, shouldn't it? Columbus8myhw (talk) 20:05, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Looks like you are correct. All prime knots and links should have unknotting number 1. I went through the prime knots and corrected a few more. Hyacinth (talk) 20:50, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

What? While all knots with unknotting number 1 are prime, I don't think all prime knots have unknotting number 1. For example, the cinquefoil knot seems to have unknotting number 2 (unless you can find a projection in which flipping one crossing unknots it). Columbus8myhw (talk) 05:22, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps if you had given me a reason I wouldn't have gone searching for one, perhaps I would have SCREAMED AT YOU. I think you just helped improve knot categorizations on the English Wikipedia and on the Commons. For example, Commons:Category:12 unknotting number knots and links. Hyacinth (talk) 03:51, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Template:PD-shape and stub-templates

Hi. Could you provide more information about your revision on Wikipedia:Help desk#Template:PD-shape and stub-templates? Alex Spade (talk) 22:01, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

File:Twinkle Twinkle in fifths.png and File:Twinkle Twinkle in seconds.png

You need to add accidentals, namely F#'s, C#'s, G#'s, and Bflat's, to some of the doubled parts to maintain the proper intervals. Elaphantom (talk) 16:31, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

You can use Template:Music to write symbols such as the flat sign. "{{music|b}}" produces "♭".

In the article, "Octave", the image captions say "doubled in four octaves", "doubled at fifths", "doubled at seconds". Do you think it should read "doubled at fifths in C" and "doubled at seconds in C"?

Hyacinth (talk) 03:44, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

No, I mean that the intervals as you've written are not always perfect fifths or major seconds. For example, in the "doubled in fifths" sample, the interval between b and f in the second bar is a diminished fifth. It should be an f# Elaphantom (talk) 15:38, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Do you think it should read "doubled at fifths in G"? Hyacinth (talk) 02:05, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

What makes you think the examples should be in keys other than the original? Hyacinth (talk) 20:49, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:My Generation vocal melody with response.PNG

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Thanks for uploading File:My Generation vocal melody with response.PNG. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:05, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

I also changed the link at File:My Generation vocal melody with response.mid to point to the SVG. Hyacinth (talk) 20:38, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Endurance sports and games

Template:Endurance sports and games has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 20:11, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Tessellations by Schläfli symbol

Template:Tessellations by Schläfli symbol has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Frietjes (talk) 15:59, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

And Template:Tessellations by vertex configuration. Hyacinth (talk) 22:28, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

4/4 listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect 4/4. Since you had some involvement with the 4/4 redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. 130.126.255.11 (talk) 16:38, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Natural numbers

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Template:Tessellations by Schläfli symbol listed at Redirects for discussion

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Template:Tessellations by vertex configuration listed at Redirects for discussion

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Template:Natural numbers listed at Redirects for discussion

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Multiply

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Precious four years!

Precious

Four years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:52, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Infobox Fraternity -[[File:]]

Please stop and revert. Some of your edits are losing information. If you are going to remove the [[File:, the you need to put the size into a image_size= and the text into an alt=. See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_fraternity&action=edit for the exact coding. Naraht (talk) 21:15, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! See: Category:Pages using deprecated image syntax. Hyacinth (talk) 23:13, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

I have attempted to clarify the Template:Infobox fraternity documentation. Hyacinth (talk) 23:59, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanx, that's a step in the right direction. I agree if they are 220 that isn't needed, but some alternate text was lost.Naraht (talk) 02:36, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

What text is still lost? Hyacinth (talk) 02:45, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

It was lost at the time, don't remember which one, but I'm sure you've fixed it.

One other note, both Phi Kappa Mu and Phi Sigma Alpha, when you stripped out the brackets and moved the image size, you left the "|center" after the image name. I've fixed both pages. Just something to keep in mind.Naraht (talk) 03:10, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

And in case it wasn't clear, I do like the fact that you are fixing these. I'm just seeing more of this because I probably have half of the Greek Letter Organizations in all of Wikipedia in my watchlist as well as alerts on additions to Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with unknown parameters03:12, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Wikipedia needs positive feedback. Hyacinth (talk) 05:28, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Three more showed up with the "|center" left behind that I fixed, Sigma Gamma Rho, Mu Sigma Phi (medical fraternity) and Delta Xi Phi. Not sure what can be done to check for these...Naraht (talk) 12:39, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

I don't think that "|center" getting left behind does any visible damage to the article but I understand how it still might bother someone (I've been called anal retentive before!).

My best idea for how to check for these errors would be to open all the articles in "what links here" for {{Infobox fraternity}}, then comparing the current version with the second most current (you should be able to simply hit enter once you go to the article history: when I hit enter it presses the "Compare selected versions" button, and the current and second most current versions are selected when I open "what links here"). If the article doesn't have an image in the template close it without comparing revisions.

My second idea is to go through my contributions and click "diff" on each fraternity/sorority edit so that it opens in a new tab (right click). This should be quicker than the first idea (since you won't have to open and then close articles without pictures). Hyacinth (talk) 23:36, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Staff notation images from C₄ to B₄

I really like the image C_(musical_note)#/media/File:Middle_C.png on C (musical note) and the image A_(musical_note)#/media/File:A440.png on A (musical note), which You made a decade ago in mid-2008 using Sibelius 5. Have You made, or do You know of, any more on Wikimedia? Since I've seen your C₄ and A₄, I'd especially like to see the naturals:

• D₄ , E₄ , F₄ , G₄ , B₄

Of lesser importance, I'd also like to see the black keys:

• C♯₄ , D♯₄ , F♯₄ , G♯₄ , A♯₄

Thank You for any assistance. Thecurran (talk) 10:28, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

@Thecurran: Look through Commons:Category:Musical notes. File:E2 flat.svg and File:Bassa2.svg for instance. I may have created images of each note in all clefs, but people complain when one creates a png instead of an svg, so I assume I did not. You can also look through User:Hyacinth/Files. If you ask me to, I can and most likely will make more similar images. May I ask what makes you appreciate File:Middle C.png and File:A440.png? Hyacinth (talk) 21:25, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia has a native way to generate arbitrary musical notation now using lilypond notation. To get:

just write:

<score>\new Staff \with { \remove "Time_signature_engraver" }{d'1 \bar ""}</score>

See Help:Score for more details. DMacks (talk) 21:32, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

To display these on the right use {{right}}. Hyacinth (talk) 21:44, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Middle C .

Or {{image frame}} to simulate a framed thumb-image with caption. DMacks (talk) 22:15, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank You very much, everyone. By the way, my browser shows C♯ and D♯ not aligning with the rest; is that what You see?

Cheers, Thecurran (talk) 08:29, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Magadizing listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Magadizing. Since you had some involvement with the Magadizing redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. -- Tavix ^(talk) 16:35, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Typo from 2015

Hi, Hyacinth. Back in 2015 you created an image, File:Ensemble layout - string quartet.png, which is used on the article String Quartet. I have only just noticed it contains a typo: "Violincello" instead of "Violoncello". Maybe it would be best changed to just "Cello".—Jerome Kohl (talk) 15:39, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Radius

Please stop adding the same incorrect information to the article at Radius. I've now had to revert your edits three separate times. After the first two, I explained that they were incorrect in my edit summaries, but you've continued to try to keep adding. If you don't agree or don't understand why they're incorrect, then it's really up to you to begin a discussion on the article's talk page. But simply making the same change over and over is being disruptive. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 12:14, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Format

Template:Format has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Lojbanist ^{remove cattle from stage} 02:13, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Music-examples

Template:Music-examples has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Lojbanist ^{remove cattle from stage} 02:20, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Width

Template:Width has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Lojbanist ^{remove cattle from stage} 02:46, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:PulitzerPrize Music Runners-up 1951–1960

Template:PulitzerPrize Music Runners-up 1951–1960 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Frietjes (talk) 12:40, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

History of Music

Hi, just wondering what your source was for the four eras of music you wrote about in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Music_eras Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.29.139.151 (talk) 16:06, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

There appears to be six eras in the template. I assume that the quickest way for you to find sources referring to these time periods (since Wikipedia articles are supposed to have citations) is in the articles themselves and the articles for those eras, such as Ancient music and Ancient history. Hyacinth (talk) 18:53, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Ah yes you're right about the six and thanks I'll check each one out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.29.139.151 (talk) 09:32, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Select Survey Invite

I'm working on a study of political motivations and how they affect editing. I'd like to ask you to take a survey. The survey should take no more than 1-2 minutes. Your survey responses will be kept private. Our project is documented at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikipedia_%2B_Politics.

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I am asking you to participate in this study because you are a frequent editor of pages on Wikipedia that are of political interest. We would like to learn about your experiences in dealing with editors of different political orientations.

Sincere thanks for your help! Porteclefs (talk) 12:51, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Linear counterpoint from Stravinsky's Octet.png

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:Linear counterpoint from Stravinsky's Octet.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:17, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Linear counterpoint from Stravinsky's Octet.mid

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:Linear counterpoint from Stravinsky's Octet.mid. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:20, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Rap music listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Rap music. Since you had some involvement with the Rap music redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Dom from Paris (talk) 04:56, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

"Goodnight, Ladies" sheet music

Bbaker516 added sheet music when creating the article for this song, but unfortunately Bbaker516 doesn't seem to have been active here for long. A user in 2016 pointed out an irregularity in that music (under heading "A flat" at Talk:Goodnight, Ladies). I don't know how or whether to fix this, but perhaps you know, or if not then I hope you know who else knows. Egmonster (talk) 03:39, 25 May 2018 (UTC) Egmonster (talk) 03:39, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't have access to I Hear America Singing (1917) or the watermark graphics in the bottom left corner. Hyacinth (talk) 05:01, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Looks like it's definitely A♭ ([7]). Hyacinth (talk) 12:00, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Triangular Chess

Why did you rename that article? Lowercase "chess" is mistaken. The name "Triangular Chess" is the game name of the variant according to the variant inventor. What makes you think you know better, than the inventor, what is the game name of his game? I'm asking you to reverse your change. If you don't, then I will be doing when I have the time. --IHTS (talk) 08:47, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

If you are demanding that my change be undone, then I don't think my motivation matters. Thanks for saying please. Hyacinth (talk) 08:51, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for proposing on the article Talk first. (These types of changes are complicated and time-consuming to un-do, or at least they were last time I undid one.) --IHTS (talk) 08:54, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

You should bring it up on the talkpage: Talk:Triangular Chess. Hyacinth (talk) 08:58, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

And on Template talk:Chess variants. Hyacinth (talk) 09:01, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Focus more on how you like Wikipedia and chess, focus less on how you dislike me. Hyacinth (talk) 09:03, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

You're the one personalizing, not me. I have no idea what you're suggesting I do or why. Thank u for undoing your changes. --IHTS (talk) 09:09, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

It appears that you have criticisms of Wikipedia and the editing environment (something we may have in common). See essays such as Wikipedia:Mostly negative, Wikipedia:Thank not criticize, Wikipedia:Punishing productivity. Hyacinth (talk) 10:02, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

If it is true that we, "can't do this [quotation marks] for all terms (e.g. 'Correspondence chess' is a term too, s/ not be in quotes, as shouldn't hundreds of others," so it is also true that we can't call every term a term. Hyacinth (talk) 13:10, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

I've seen experienced editors write that it's poor form to describe a term as "a term that means ...", etc., and I agree. It's a matter of article copyedit to reword redundant language. --IHTS (talk) 13:32, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

@Ihardlythinkso: "What makes you think you know better, than the inventor, what is the game name of his game?" Per WP:FOC, please, "focus on article content during discussions, not on editor conduct; comment on content, not the contributor." Hyacinth (talk) 10:19, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Because you can't apparently see it, I'll spell out the argument: Your WP:OR about how a game name should be represented, is trumped by a primary source (the game inventor's specification). Please stay off my Talk page, and quit pinging me with nonsense. --IHTS (talk) 18:33, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Please stop making hypocritical accusations. The article is at Triangular Chess, not Triangular chess, so your beating a dead horse. Hyacinth (talk) 23:17, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm not speaking "in code", so when I asked you to focus on content I was asking you to focus on content and was not saying that the article Triangular Chess should be at Triangular chess. Hyacinth (talk) 23:31, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

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Category:Graphs by vertices has been nominated for discussion

Category:Graphs by vertices, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. – Fayenatic London 15:23, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Category:Square roots has been nominated for discussion

Category:Square roots, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 20:37, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Category:Square roots of integers has been nominated for discussion

Category:Square roots of integers, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 15:20, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Admin tools

I'm writing here because I think it's inappropriate that you're deleting categories that are currently at CfD. The last couple of these are ones that I've nominated, so while I agree with the end result, you're WP:INVOLVED and shouldn't be the one doing the deleting. Even if you've changed your mind since creating, you can just make a comment at the listing and let someone else close it. In both cases, you didn't bother closing the discussion or even let people know what you did. This results in confusion and a mess for others to clean up. Per WP:ADMINACCT, a response is appreciated. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 22:07, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

If a response is appreciated but not required, then my actions have been imperfect but not inappropriate. You also imply that once I've made a comment at a deletion request then I am free to delete, but I'm not sure if you mean that. Hyacinth (talk) 22:15, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Please address my concerns rather than splitting hairs over whether I said "appreciated" or "required". The point was that you can just make a comment that you agree with the nomination and let someone else do the closing and deleting of something at CfD rather than cause a mess by doing the deletion prematurely without even bothering to say anything at the listing. But you did delete something under discussion when you were WP:INVOLVED. Your involvement is due to the fact that you had just created this category, regardless of whether or not you participated in the discussion. This is inappropriate and an abuse of admin tools. That you didn't (and still haven't) closed the discussion or even commented that you deleted the category isn't itself an abuse, but it does demonstrate either ignorance of the process or disdain towards it. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 23:24, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

If you politely ask me to do something, I will often do it. (keep in mind questions involve question marks) Hyacinth (talk) 03:30, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

User:Deacon Vorbis is right that you are already involved, so it would be more than helpful if you would also contribute to the both discussions. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:34, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Again, Wikipedians should feel free to ask users to please do something (such as comment on a discussion). (keep in mind questions involve question marks) Hyacinth (talk) 03:33, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Template:Paradoxes

This template should be recreated and include all of the paradoxes that have Wikipedia articles, grouped thematically. —Eli355 (talk | contribs) 00:05, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Feel free. Is there a reason you think it should be recreated? Hyacinth (talk) 09:30, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

When it exsisted, it only contained the logical paradoxes, but it should be recreated to include all paradoxes.—Eli355 (talk | contribs) 17:46, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

@Eli355: Why should it be recreated? Give me somethin' besides "because". See Template:Navbox. Hyacinth (talk) 07:21, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Yes, this template provides quick access to other paradoxes on any of these pages. —Eli355 (talk | contribs) 00:46, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

See: Template talk:Logical paradoxes. Hyacinth (talk) 03:03, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

I created this Template. —Eli355 (talk | contribs) 21:05, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

See: WP:TDOC. Hyacinth (talk) 02:10, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

You haven't gotten around to redirecting {{Logical paradoxes}}, {{Decision theory paradoxes}}, and {{Economic paradoxes}}. Hyacinth (talk) 02:12, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

I'll get around to redirecting these soon. —Eli355 (talk | contribs) 00:56, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

You may run into users who are not okay with you signing a comment and then editing it without changing the date/time (for example, this edit). Many users would prefer that you resign each "draft" of a comment, updating the timestamp. There are some users who argue that comments should never be edited (and thus adding a second comment amending the first comment is the only option). This is more important on article talk pages and discussions such as deletion or merge proposals. Hyacinth (talk) 01:11, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

I'll update the date next time I change a comment. —Eli355 (talk | contribs) 01:53, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Words to use listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Wikipedia:Words to use. Since you had some involvement with the Wikipedia:Words to use redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so.  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  20:56, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

• The discussion has concluded. We have decided to move the page to User:Hyacinth/Words to use since you wrote the original manual, leaving the project-space title as a redlink. Deryck C. 14:31, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

thanks for the musical info& file... the only problem was it was written as '.mid' rather than '.midi' ,as the type of file;so the software didn't recognize it...my bad!;just need to update my audio file player options...the file on the neutral interval's labelled properly i found out... thanks for that piece of musical knowledge...

c. louis mcguirebutts, jr. 00:36, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. What file are you talking about?

In cases like this you should first try the same page in different browsers, and secondly you could presumably save the file to your computer (MIDI files don't take a large amount of memory like audio files (mp3, et al.)), and then edit the extension in the file name (right click). Hyacinth (talk) 01:25, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Alveolar click(s)

It looks like you self-reverted your move of Alveolar clicks to Alveolar click, but I agree with your first move. Even the 2011 move proposal was closed as no consensus to move, yet Kwamikagami boldly moved it anyway "per all the other articles". Anyway, I've started Talk:Alveolar clicks#Requested move 18 August 2018, which you might be interested in. Nardog (talk) 08:15, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

ANI notice

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 02:16, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Template:ANI-notice doesn't really express one's feelings. Why don't you try an I statement? Hyacinth (talk) 02:47, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

I can only help you improve Wikipedia if you talk to me rather than punish me. Without feedback no one or thing can improve. Hyacinth (talk) 02:56, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 29

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Further reading: {{SOWL}}

Further reading is a list of sources that provide additional information not covered in the article. By changing "Sources", "References", etc. to "Further reading" simply because the source under it is not directly invoked by an in-line citation you are hurting the articles' quality. Please stop. Nardog (talk) 03:30, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Do you think accuracy improves articles or worsens them? Hyacinth (talk) 03:32, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean.

Some editors do (and many used to) give only full citations in an article, indicating that they are the overall sources for the whole content of the article. That's the whole reason {{No footnotes}} and {{More footnotes}} exist in the first place. By placing them under "Further reading" you are implying that they are not sources to support any claim in the article but are merely works to which interested readers may refer in addition to the Wikipedia article. And that of course hurts the quality of the article because it has now lost citations to support its content. If you want to really improve the verifiability of articles, then go check the cited sources and see whether each unreferenced claim is supported by them and add inline citations. Nardog (talk) 03:41, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

You can easily fix these articles by citing the book. Hyacinth (talk) 03:45, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Then do it. What you're doing is removing citations because, again, "Further reading" specifically implies works under it are NOT sources of the article. Nardog (talk) 03:49, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia is editable, not permanent. Putting a book in "Further reading" doesn't magically make it impossible to cite the book, and once one does cite the book, it should be moved out of Further reading. Hyacinth (talk) 03:52, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Nobody is saying putting a book in "Further reading" makes it impossible to cite it. I'm saying putting a book under "References", "Sources", "Bibliography", etc. already, by default, implies that the book supports claims made in the article. So you shouldn't move it to "Further reading" because that is to imply it is not a source to support claims. What we should do instead is verify unreferenced claims and add inline citations. Nardog (talk) 03:57, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

See WP:V and WP:CITE. Hyacinth (talk) 03:53, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

See WP:GENREF. And stop what you are doing and discuss. Nardog (talk) 03:58, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I have already stopped. Hyacinth (talk) 04:00, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

You were making the same kinds of changes even after I created this topic and you responded. Next time you are cautioned about something like this, I strongly suggest you do not proceed to make the edits you were cautioned against until the matter is cleared because otherwise you'd risk being construed as refusing to engage in consensus building. Nardog (talk) 04:16, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

If you are trying to threaten someone, you should cite policy and guidelines. If you are trying to convince someone, you should cite policy and guidelines. Nothing you say magically makes citations without pages complete. Hyacinth (talk) 04:19, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I literally linked the first words in the OP to WP:FURTHER, which says This section is not intended as a repository for general references or full citations that were used to create the article content. Nardog (talk) 04:26, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

A link is just an arrow pointing towards a page. You could have said, "Wikipedia:About". Hyacinth (talk) 04:33, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Without a citation, a reference does not support any point in the article. Hyacinth (talk) 04:37, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Ideally. But that doesn't change the fact that editors have already contributed to articles citing only general references. To relegate those references to "Further reading" does not help. Nardog (talk) 04:42, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

You say that you know the editors of the article read the book. So you're psychic? Hyacinth (talk) 15:19, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

If the book does support the article's points, should we go through these pages and cite every sentence in the articles that list SOWL as the sole reference? Hyacinth (talk) 04:39, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I know it sucks when people try and improve Wikipedia, but you should WP:Thank not criticize and not punish productivity. Hyacinth (talk) 04:44, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

One cannot make twenty claims and then say that that some of them may be supportable by a book listed at the bottom of the page. That is an insane workload to put on the back's of readers, and as an editor part of your job is to make it easier for readers, not harder and more obscure. Hyacinth (talk) 04:49, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Which is why WP:CITE discourages it and {{No footnotes}} and {{More footnotes}} exist. I totally agree with you. Nardog (talk) 05:03, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Apparently you haven't looked at {{No footnotes}}! It reads, "This article includes a list of references, related reading or external links..." Hyacinth (talk) 15:00, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Apparently there is a section heading for references which are not cited: WP:GENREF. Hyacinth (talk) 16:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Template:Page needed

Please see the documentation at Template:Page needed. The template is not meant to be used inside a citation.

See also Template:Cite book#COinS: Use of templates within the citation template is discouraged because many of these templates will add extraneous HTML or CSS that will be included raw in the metadata. Nardog (talk) 04:09, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't know what you are trying to achieve... {{Full citation needed}} is for when a citation is incomplete. {{SOWL}} is clearly a complete full citation. {{No footnotes}} and {{More footnotes}} are the templates to use when inline references are insufficient despite full citations being listed. Nardog (talk) 04:33, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Do you want these pages to be without citations and without full citations? Maybe you should ask yourself what you are trying to achieve. Hyacinth (talk) 04:35, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

At any rate, if you think there is a problem endemic to phonetics-related articles, I'd really appreciate if you brought it up at e.g. WT:LING and sought solutions with other editors instead of BOLDly going on a mass editing. That would be easier for you too. Nardog (talk) 04:38, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps you could have started a conversation instead of giving me orders without explanation and getting close to edit warring. Perhaps you could acknowledge that I changed my edits with every comment from you. Hyacinth (talk) 04:42, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I apologize from the above. Your first message to me was actually quite polite, for Wikipedia. You most likely deserve praise and not insults. Hyacinth (talk) 04:46, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

You most likely feel WP:Ownership of these pages, or you would prefer that their faults be pointed out, not hidden. Hyacinth (talk) 04:51, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

All I cautioned you against is incorrect usages of headings and templates. I would love to see each sentence of those articles supported by page-specific inline citations, probably more than you would. What I disagree with is not what you were trying to point out but how you were doing it. Nardog (talk) 05:08, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

How has undoing my edits moved us towards your goal? How has it increased, in the articles I edited, the number of claims supported by citations? Hyacinth (talk) 05:30, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

The only reason I reverted or revised your edits is because they conflicted with a guideline (such as MOS:FURTHER, MOS:NOTES or WP:GENREF) or the intended use of a template according to its documentation ({{Page needed}}, {{Cite book}}, {{Full citation needed}}), as I explained in the summary. Now I realize I could have instated {{More footnotes}} etc. on your behalf in addition to simply reverting, but you were editing so many articles in such a short period of time that I figured I should just go directly to your talk. So I did. Now I realize I wasn't as polite and articulate as I should have been, and for that I apologize. I also appreciated your reorganization of categories, so thank you. Nardog (talk) 06:44, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Bibliographies are "lists of works compiled as part of an article. For List of works used as references, see Wikipedia:Citing sources." Hyacinth (talk) 15:15, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

If my edits conflict with a guideline, then you should be able to say how, and you should thus actually say how they conflict in your edit summaries, rather than simply insisting that they do. Hyacinth (talk) 15:41, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Further reading

What is "Further reading" for? Hyacinth (talk) 04:55, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

There's an essay about it: Wikipedia:Further reading. MOS:FURTHER is the guideline. Nardog (talk) 06:42, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

How do you prove that an editor based an article on a reference, or that the article is made up and lists a reference at the bottom? You'd have to be psychic, or the editor. How do you prove that the list at "Further reading" provides additional information, and how do you prove when it doesn't? Hyacinth (talk) 05:05, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

No one has to prove anything. Any editor adding a reference to a work should place it where appropriate (inside <ref>...</ref> or under "References" etc. if it's used as a basis for a claim in the article; under "Further reading" if it's not; and take it out of the section and list it alongside other refs whenever adding content based on that work).

As for "How do you prove...?": Can't you say the same thing for almost anything on Wikipedia? The burden to edit with accuracy and honesty is on the editor. The burden to read with caution and check with sources is on the reader. And, again, I agree with you, it sucks when an article cites an entire book without pointing where to look in it. But the way we discourage it and encourage fixing it is, for an entire article or section, {{No footnotes}} or {{More footnotes}}, and, in the body, {{Page needed}}. Nardog (talk) 06:42, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant: "How do you verify that an editor based an article on a reference, or that the article is made up and lists a reference at the bottom?"

I could list the truth of God in the references sections. Does that imply that the article is based on a divine vision? Does moving that to Further reading falsely imply that the article is not based on divine visions? Hyacinth (talk) 15:44, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I could cite my eyes, but you can't see through my eyes, unless you're psychic. Hyacinth (talk) 17:04, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

You may enjoy a source listed at "Proud Mary", SongMeanings.com. We don't know if it's pro- or anti- lard, but supposedly the song "Proud Mary" is obviously about lard. How can we tell? Quite easily, by viewing every single frame of still existing clips of black and white film:

"Visual evidence found in very old black and white movie which clearly showed the loading of barrels of 'Proud Mary' Lard on a sternwheeler." (you may have to register with the site to read the citations, or at least click "Edit wiki")

Wikipedians tend to brag that "we" don't allow nonsense like some wikis do. Hyacinth (talk) 16:32, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Nursery rhymes

Template:Nursery rhymes has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. --woodensuperman 11:18, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Children's games

Template:Children's games has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. --woodensuperman 15:05, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:American Indian music by group

Template:American Indian music by group has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. --woodensuperman 15:53, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Review of Page Draupadi

Hi,

My id is Panchalidraupadi. I would request you to have a look at the wiki page of Draupadi which is going through constant vandalism and removal of valuable sourced information by users who are constantly creating multiple accounts, despite being blocked. I am trying to revert, but the users are removing the info every few hours. Please help, and if possible could you please edit lock the page for some time (earlier it was edit locked for a month for similar reasons, and it helped). I would request you to ensure that all the sourced info are available on the page if you are edit locking. I have also reached out to Ponyo (another admin) for help. Whoever does the needful, I would be greatly obliged.

Thanks. Panchalidraupadi (talk) 01:58, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Panchalidraupadi (talk • contribs) 01:25, 17 September 2018 (UTC) 

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Why did you move the Native American Dances template?

There is no real preference in name. The preferences are regional and generational. There is no consensus. Why did you do this? Unless there is some discussion I am unaware of I'm going to save people the cleanup and move it back. I'm concerned this is like the last time you tried to reorganize a Native template without consensus or understanding the topic. Please advise. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 22:09, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

You shouldn't accuse people of ignorance if you want them to do what you demand. Instead you should treat people kindly and convince them so that they share your goals. Hyacinth (talk) 22:26, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

We went through this when you wanted to do similar edits in the past. Maybe you don't remember. I have no need to get into long discussions about it. Just reminding you that we've been through this before and you wanted to talk about it a lot instead of just following policy. Follow policy and it will be fine. I don't want to rehash it again. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 22:51, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Name the policy. If you have time, you could even quote the policy. Hyacinth (talk) 00:32, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Hyacinth, you know consensus is one of the five pillars. Continuing to retitle a template, giving it a different name in the header than the name it has, is disruptive editing. I'm trying to be polite about this, but every time you come into this topic you insist on changes that show you don't understand the topic. Why can't you just edit in topics where you have expertise and can be an asset to the 'pedia? - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 21:56, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

If you oppose me, then it is a conflict. You can't have consensus by yourself, and neither can I. We both may hold the same opinion as the consensus, but that would require involvement, even indirect, by more than two users (for instance, a policy or guideline, a quote, or even a reference source; for example, you could cite the original user's creation of the template at its current title). Hyacinth (talk) 04:19, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Why can't you not give passive-aggressive compliments which are actually insults? Hyacinth (talk) 03:21, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

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