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Wikipedia:WikiProject Eurovision/Newsletters/November and December 2009

I know you are rather busy at the moment, but I need to ask are you planning to distribute this newsletter any time soon, as it will start to get out of date if left. If you are really busy I could always ask someone else familiar with ABD to distribute it. Camaron · Christopher · talk 18:15, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

oh sorry. i completely forgot. I'll deliver it when i get out of work. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 19:27, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Excellent. Camaron · Christopher · talk 20:04, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. It seems that they still haven't fixed the "signed in" bug so I can't do it using autowiki. Do you know of any bots that could be up to the task? Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 21:29, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

There are a few, User:Xenobot does the WP:VG newsletter so it should be able to do ours as well. I will leave a request at User talk:Xeno. Camaron · Christopher · talk 12:15, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

You might try downloading the latest SVN from WP:AWB/SVN; in any case, this is  Done. Cheers, –xeno^talk 14:51, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - November and December 2009

Note: the Newsletter is "collapsed" for convenience. To see the full letter, click on the "show" button at the right end of the gray bar.

If you are no longer interested in WikiProject Eurovision then please remove your name from this list. This Newsletter was delivered by xenobot 14:40, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs

Hello Grk1011! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 183 article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the article:

1. Michalis Hatzigiannis - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 05:26, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know after 2 and a half years lol. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 15:31, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

{{Infobox single}} and italicization

I added {{editprotected}} to your section at Template talk:Infobox single so that the admins will be attracted to it to make the change. Sorry I didn't notice it sooner (as I had known of the discussion at WT:ALBUMS last month), you shouldn't have had to wait this long to get something done. —Akrabbim^talk 21:57, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Annalee

Go for it! take a bunch and up load them to wikicommons... i created a category for annalee dolls there. I an going to take a picture of an annalee doll society pin i found on the ground at the old factory and add it soon.--Found5dollar (talk) 18:29, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I responded to you on my page... i hate split up conversations.--Found5dollar (talk) 02:25, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Are you serious?! you helped out create the Annalee Article? you put up the logo and did alittle copy editing and then made me do a bunch of research into the name of the Company, to just decide for yourself what it should be without looking at any of the research i did. If this is what happens after you work on Wikipedia for a while then i am done. --Found5dollar (talk) 15:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Lowecasing of words like "greek", "english" etc.

Hello. I'm Greek, too, and I live in Athens. I think what you told me about the lowercasing of such words does not apply in the english language. In the greek language, proper nouns should not begin with a capital letter and I'm pretty sure of it, so I suppose the same thing happens in english. I'd very much appreciate it if you answered this message. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Golden Sugarplum (talk • contribs) 20:08, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Please tell me, why did you fully undo my edit of Anna Vissi's article? At least, you could have only changed lowercased letters into capitals. I found many punctuation mistakes and took care of them. It took me about an hour. It was very mean of you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Golden Sugarplum (talk • contribs) 00:41, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

You should have very simply asked me to change lowercased letters into capitals. Although I think it's wrong, I would do it if you had asked me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Golden Sugarplum (talk • contribs) 00:49, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I read the page immediately after I saw your first message. If I undo your undoing of my editing of Vissi's article, the changes I made (including all the lowercasing I made) will return? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Golden Sugarplum (talk • contribs) 01:04, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you because I don't know how to undo. I'll make it capitals again if you want it. You said you saw nice changes after my edit. Tell me some of them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Golden Sugarplum (talk • contribs) 01:10, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, I see. Are you a boy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Golden Sugarplum (talk • contribs) 01:13, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Out of curiosity. Besides, only a boy would do something so bad such as making all my effort become wasted. Girls don't do such stuff. I'm a girl. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Golden Sugarplum (talk • contribs) 01:16, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

I'll start putting capitals now. OK? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Golden Sugarplum (talk • contribs) 01:19, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Why are you telling me this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Golden Sugarplum (talk • contribs) 01:37, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Alright. I made the changes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Golden Sugarplum (talk • contribs) 01:40, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Greek Dates Eurovision

I read [1] that EscToday report. But thank you for the Note.Redpower94 (talk) 17:55, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Ratings organization

Hi, Stephen! I tend to run conservative (i.e. less is more) with ratings, so I'd lose the separate source column and put the source next to the viewers. You can add a note below the table that ratings, share, demo and viewers come form the source referenced in the viewers column. Then you can source the ranking individually as you get them. I'd also hyperlink rating and share so readers can go to the appropriate article; most folks don't really know what those terms mean. Lastly, I'd lose the time slot column and add a note regarding broadcast days for S1 below the table. The narrative covers S2. The US has six time zones, the show runs at 10:00 in some, 9:00 in others and I'm not sure when in AK and HI time. The EST preference (which should be labeled ET, since part of the season runs during Daylight Time) only reflects one of the four major broadcast markets, two of which broadcast it at 9:00.

I know this is more than you asked, but I have to tell you, my impulse is to hit the WP:UNDUE button where all those ratings are concerned. We both know ratings are only meaningful for a limited period of time, and once the season is over and the show renewed, they don't mean much at all. I imagine some sort of a case can be made for retaining the first-season ratings as they are, but the French and British ratings have no impact on the show, and are fancruft, frankly. They should go altogether. If you've got editors who feel passionate about having them around, move them to the episode list article or something like that. Right now, the article appears to be more about the ratings than the show itself, and they represent a Pandora's box that allows a case for every country broadcasting the show to have its ratings in the article.

Anyway, I hope I didn't go overboard. It's my opinion, no more. I don't watch the show, so I have no vested interest in the tables, just an impression of being rather overwhelmed by the volume of information in each table and the sheer number of tables. At the same time, I recognize they represent a lot of work, and appreciate the editors who put it in. Drmargi (talk) 18:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Rebetiko

Hi Grk1011

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebetiko

I appreciate the capital letter question (Turkish &c), and the USA > United States corrections. But I do not really understand the need to Americanise British spelling conventions (ie substituting -ize for -ise) which is the British English spelling I've been using for nearly 60 years. Is there an international agreement that all English wikipedia articles should follow Unites States spelling, and if so, why?

Can you explain what is unclear to you about my use of the word syncretic? - I assume you are familiar with the word. And as you can see, I have tagged to a work which handles the question of syncretism in Greek music, in depth.

Also I would appreciate if you could clarify what you mean by "jargon" in the present text?

A further point is the discography question. I know that the discography was removed, with the comment that a genre's discography is never complete, or words to that effect. Of course I agree with you in principle. However, the discography I've compiled is very clearly qualified in the introductory text, which I modified after someone else (not me!) reinstated the discography section. It refers to reissue material, not to an ongoing genre - in contrast with what would be the case if I offered a discography of jazz for example.

Best wishes

Tony Klein Boulouti (talk) 12:58, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry - forgot to add heading to my talk Boulouti (talk) 12:59, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi Stephen

1) Re: spelling:

I take your point about the original version being in American spelling. I should have honoured that.

2) Re: syncretism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism

I'm sorry but I really take issue with you on calling that word jargon. I would appreciate if you removed the jargon banner, and specified what you mean by terms I shouldn't expect people to understand. I suppose this boils down to one's view of what Wikipedia is. Should an article always be written in such a way that absolutely any conceivable reader will never have the need or impulse to look up a word? I don't find that tenable.

3) Re: discography: Isn't it true of anything that there can always be more? I notíced that the first time you involved yourself with this page, before me, you saw fit to leave the discography as it was. Any explanation? When putting the large amount of work into this revision, as I'm sure you realise, my intention was naturally to give some kind of guidance so that people can look for the music and musicians that the article is about. I have written "some of" not "all". What about the enormous number of wiki pages devoted to other musicians, which include their discographies? Should they all be deleted too?

As to sourcing the discography - each and every record is sourced to its publisher, so I don't understand what you mean.

4) Re: artists: as to whether they can be considered to affiliate themselves with the genre. That point is double-edged. It is not implicit in the list that each and every artist (they're virtually all dead!) defined themselves as "rebetiko artists" - virtually no-one did at the time. But on the other hand it is quite clear, among other things from the references I have inserted, that all these artists recorded at least some music that is included by general consensus in the rebetiko genre by people involved with that music today. As you will also note from the tone of my text, I am very careful to point out the "after the event" nature of the genre term.

5) Re: citations for every sentence: it is also a tricky question as to who decides what is generally accepted fact and what is an assertion in need of citation.

Finally - I got to wondering about the Wiki principle of politeness and welcoming. I have to admit that I experience your tone as rather unfriendly. When working on a page on which you have critical opinions, but on which you apparently endorse a large amount of the new material which you have read through, would it not be in place to make positive as well as negative comments? Boulouti (talk) 14:29, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi Stephen I really don't know how I could fix links as you suggest. Every one of these records is self-defining in either name or presentation or both, and as far as I can see none are controversial in that sense. It is definitely not I who have defined them! I quite agree that the use of genre categories is a very knotty point, often something created after the event for commercial, political or other reasons like the need to label record bins and organise record catalogues. A beautiful example is Elijah Wald's book on Robert Johnson: Escaping the Delta, which explodes the myth of blues as a genre to which musicians can be simply assigned. The fact that I've been involved for 36 years with the area of musical forms called rebetiko today means I'm extremely aware of how artificial the genre label is in many ways. But that insight can't make the label go away, or make the music(s) less meaningful to inform about. Any suggestions? Boulouti (talk) 16:20, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Stephen I have linked the discography to the comprehensive Maniatis discography of Greek 78 rpm production. That means that the songs in all the CDs can quite simply be checked against their entries in that discography and thereby identified as to label, catalogue and matrix numbers, issue date, title, artist, composer and genre. I can see no other way to achieve what you suggest. Boulouti (talk) 06:37, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

The Mentalist (season 2) intertitle

What do you mean "no, it can only be used once."? There is no reason for it being limited to one article, "limited number" does not mean it can be used only once. It adds to the page as much as it does to the main article and the logo you added to the season one article, like you said "might as well use it somewhere" when you added it to the page. _Xeworlebi ^(t•c) 21:56, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

And now you added your own poster image, the reasoning is beyond me. _Xeworlebi ^(t•c) 22:01, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

First of all it pissed me off that you used twinkle to revert as if I did something wrong. The season one image is not copyrighted since it is simple text. The season two image however is copyrighted. Regardless I already uploaded the season two promotional poster. The infobox for these seasons usually have the DVD covers though. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 22:02, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Twinkle has nothing to do with doing something wrong, I could have pressed undo, which would then load the page for me to edit and the I could have pressed submit, or I could just press rollback which gave me a popup to write a summary and press OK. Same question remains, "no, it can only be used once."?. The poster is copyrighted as well, makes no difference. Don't really mind the poster in place of the intertitle, I just don't get the reasoning for it, especially when you just removed it with that statement. _Xeworlebi ^(t•c) 22:08, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

If you read the guidelines for Twinkle and Rollback they specifically say that they are only to revert cases of vandalism. Non-free guidelines limit the use of copyrighted materials and though I did replace it with another copyrighted image, the fact that it is unique makes the difference. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 22:28, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

On the Twinkle thing, there are 3 buttons: "Rollback (AGF)", "Rollback" and "Rollback (VANDAL)". The non-free guidelines limit the use but not to one, making an image unique doesn't really make a difference to the copyright. But now there's another image it really doesn't matter that much. _Xeworlebi ^(t•c) 22:49, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

your dyk hook

Hi, there is a problem with your dyk hook which I have attempted to describe here. Perhaps you can address my concerns. Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 01:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

JORJKIE.AV (talk · contribs)

I know this user has caused a lot of trouble for you and several other editors. Despite two blocks and continued warnings the disruption continues, so I have blocked the account indef. I have left an offer to unblock with conditions on the user's talk page, though I suspect that some sock puppets may appear. Let me know if they do so they can be blocked immediately. Camaron · Christopher · talk 12:28, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. Will do. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 15:25, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Park Drive (parkway)

On February 2, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Park Drive (parkway), which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 00:01, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

DVD cover The Mentalist (season 1)

Hey, quick question: You uploaded an image of the DVD cover for season 1, is it in order with copyright to cut out the white background in the image, and upload a version with transparent background? I would guess so, as it's the image on/of the DVD box itself that contains copyrighted info and not the picture as a whole. I would want to do this because the white in the background is not the same color as the page background and it gives a weird/unclean effect. Thanks. _Xeworlebi ^(t•c) 20:00, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

It should be a png or svg, but I don't know how to do those. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 20:02, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

SVG, is for vector images; basic geometric shapes. It's not suitable for images, only for logo's etc. I've converted it to a PNG and made the background transparent. _Xeworlebi ^(t•c) 20:24, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Looks like I did something wrong, is it possible to change the article/file name from .jpg to .png? I uploaded a newer version over the existing one which had a JPG extension although the file is a PNG file. Should I just upload a new file instead of a new version? The file looks fine on the file page but displays wrong inline. _Xeworlebi ^(t•c) 20:32, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Try the help desk. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 20:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I figured it out, I remembered that I once saw a request for PNG version template, looked it up and followed the links. I uploaded it to a new page, added a link to the JPG page to it, and requested deletion as orphan. _Xeworlebi ^(t•c) 20:46, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok great. Thanks. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 20:47, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Winnipesaukee Playhouse, Annalee Dolls

Hello! I reviewed the debate on the submission of Winnipesaukee Playhouse and Annalee Dolls at the Did You Know nominations page, and I have a suggestion that aimed at resolving the "double hook" debate. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! otherlleft 21:29, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

DYK credits for George Levendis

On February 5, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article George Levendis, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 00:28, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

WPs

Umm I didn't really get your edit on the talk page. Artists are supposed to be in genre WPs, and besides, you left the R&B one in. The dance one is not a genre, it is for dancers, the gymnastics one is for gymnasts, and the television one is for shows, networks, and personalities. They are all appropriate. GreekStar12 (talk) 06:31, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Please read the scope of each project. I left the R&B project because it specifically said in its scope that it pertained to R&B singers while the others did not apply to rouvas. Dance, electronic, and rock pertained to genres and other aspects, not artists, while gymnastics said it dealt with things such as moves and competitions, not gymnasts. Lastly there is can be no misconception about the TV wikiproject as it is solely for television shows, not actors in shows. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 07:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

OK you're obviously off on this one for many reasons. First of all, when a WP says in the scope of improving genre-related wikiprojects obviously that includes the artists/musicians that make them up, otherwise they wouldn't exist. You can't go on a single artist page without finding the genre WPs in the talk page, and this has been so for all classes of articles. I noticed you are in the Gaga WP, which has her in WP:Electronic music, but also some very arguable WPs like fashion and visual art, don't notice you having anything to say about that. Second of all, I don't know if you realized, but WP:dance is about the movement, not the musical genre. Thus it pertains to dancers/choreographers and people who create dance, which is appropriate for Rouvas. WP:Gymnasts is specifically for gymnasts, which he was professionally. And WP:TV says no actors but it has categories for TV directors/producers etc, basically everyone who can't fit into screenwriters/actors/filmmakers. There is a source in the article that he is launching his own tv production company. GreekStar12 (talk) 08:54, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I said do not respond here. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:03, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

ESC SK 2009 infobox

Why you deleted my infobox??? I live in Slovakia,and I know better than you,what happened in the national final. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dunaszerdahely (talk • contribs) 12:47, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Replied on your talk. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 16:48, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Deletion request on Commons

Please see commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/File:AnnaleeDoll.jpg. It appears that photos such as this one of yours can't be used here, because the toys themselves can be copyrighted. Ucucha 15:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Ultra Records

Hi Grk,

I notice you deleted an addition I made to Ultra Records and wrote "you havent established any relation to this record label." I'm not sure I understand what that means. Can you clarify? Thanks.

Mendle44 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mendle44 (talk • contribs) 01:13, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

You wrote Ultra International Music Publishing (UIMP) is an independent music publishing company representing artists, songwriters, producers and agents from around the world. The company attempts to place artists in film, television, gaming, and advertising and then listed a bunch of artists. You didn't say anything about it being related to Ultra Records. Is it a division of Ultra Records or a separate company all together with a similar name? It was not obvious which you meant. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 01:47, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Ah. I see. I should have been clearer. On Ultra Record's "About" page, it says "Ultra Records is affiliated with Ultra International Music Publishing which represents writers and producers..." I will re-post and link to that page. Thanks for that Grk! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mendle44 (talk • contribs) 18:29, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Lists

There is a problem with your recent nominations for deletion (Feb 14 "proddings"): unless I am terribly wrong, one can place an AfDM-tag only in recently created articles. If you place it in long-standing articles, you could even be accused of vandalism. The correct template for long-standing articles is 'AfD' and the nomination must be made according to the guide to deletion (that is, one has to create an entry for the article and defend his/her proposal). In any case, my opinion is that these articles are not up for deletion since they concern legitimate subjects. A simple noref-tag or a trimdown should be enough. Incidentally, I would like to mention that I am diametrically opposed to your edits in Rebetiko and Music of Greece. In the first case, you seem to confuse the concept of an encyclopedic list with that of an unencyclopedic exhaustive database. In the second case, the justifications: "not a helpful list" and "no threshold for inclusion" are insufficient, if not POVish; the content of the 'Modern laïká artists'-list was verifiable, relevant and, according to certain criteria, useful. --Omnipaedista (talk) 22:05, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm really confused about your concerns. You seem to be jamming a bunch of unrelated edits I have done of the past month together to make an argument. PROD was appropriate for those articles. I tested two in the past two weeks and they went uncontested, so I nominated some more. Please read the guidelines at WP:PROD, no where does it say it is only for new articles. It is just an alternative to AfD for uncontroversial deletions. I established them as not controversial through my previous two test articles. As for Rebetiko, there is no reason for a list of every single artist who sings a genre, that is what a category is for. Also, the list was not sourced and unsourced content can be removed immediately. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 02:48, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Stephen, unsourced contentious content is what can be removed immediately. DGG ( talk ) 00:02, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

I can be WP:BOLD. It seems that people did not like it so I stopped. No problem there. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 00:59, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

My concerns had to do with the following pattern I have observed in your recent edits to articles which I am watching: you seem to have a formed a very specific opinion about the usefulness of certain music-related lists in Wikipedia, and then you unilaterally decided to act according to it. To be frank, meseems it is a bit inconsistent of you, that while you are currently working on articles about popular songs (articles whose unscholarly nature makes it notoriously difficult for anyone to find references supporting their claims), at the same time you demand the immediate deletion of temporarily unreferenced popular-music-related lists, whose content is uncontentious and, in principle, verifiable --please, don't take this as an accusation or anything; it's a mere observation that could be wrong. To quote DGG: "almost all lists will always be incomplete; lists and categories can and usually should co-exist". In my words, it is entirely different to have an artists-by-genre category page than having an embedded list of artists in a genre-related article. A category page is, in principle, exhaustive and thus of little use to someone who is just trying to get the gist; it also lacks annotations (an artist's ethnicity or musical specialization are pieces of info that one should be able to inspect at a glance); finally, it usually includes only artists who happen to be "blue links" at the moment, which is not representative of their relatively higher notability or popularity over artists who are "red links". A list embedded in an article has no such contraints, and thus it is much more useful according to the criteria I have just mentioned. --Omnipaedista (talk) 02:23, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

I care about certain things more than others which leads to my inconsistent editing behavior. Concerning the lists, my experience over the past three years has been nothing but trouble, with countless edit wars on pages such as the former "Best selling Greek artists" list where people would just add whatever they wanted without a source. Naturally I have become increasingly critical of lists and their shortcomings. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:04, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Giro Apo T' Oneiro

Talk pages are now merged, thanks for pointing that out. J04n(talk page) 14:12, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - January and February 2010

Note: the Newsletter is "collapsed" for convenience. To see the full letter, click on the "show" button at the right end of the gray bar.

If you are no longer interested in WikiProject Eurovision then please remove your name from this list. This Newsletter was delivered by xenobot 14:01, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day Grk1011

	HAPPY FIRST EDIT DAY!	from the BIRTHDAYCOMMITTEE
	Wishing Grk1011/Archive 12 a very Happy First Edit Day! Have a fantastic day! From the Wikipedia Birthday Committee

Vatsan34 (talk) 09:20, 6 March 2010 (UTC) wiki></nowiki> to somewhere on your talk page.

Thank you. DASHBot (talk) 12:10, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Editing Points tables

(Discussion started by me on other user's talk page) Please stop adding points tables to all of the articles. It was decided a year or two ago that we should use prose (writing) to describe them since it is more formal. Also, wikipedia can't be its own source, so please do not link the main contest page as a reference. Also, in the future please do not randomly decide to change hundreds of articles. You need to discuss it first to make sure there is consensus to make such drastic changes. If you would like permission to continue, please start a discussion on the project talk where the community will decide what to do, otherwise undo all of your edits. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 16:56, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi! Thank you for the tip! I will ask the community in the future. I could add the the points of the Eurovision.tv site as a reference. One Question: Should I ask in the Eurovision Song Contest talk or a another talk page? Bye! Redpower94 (talk) 21:05, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

You can ask here. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 23:38, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Untitled Album (Katy Garbi)

An article that you have been involved in editing, Untitled Album (Katy Garbi), has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Untitled Album (Katy Garbi). Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. B.Wind (talk) 23:25, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

re: Ryan Johnson

(Discussion started by me on other user's talk page) Please do not move pages without proper discussion. If it was non controversial it would be fine, but seeing as someone objects (me) you cannot move it just because you want to. Ryan Johnson is an American, he grew up here and plays soccer on an American team. To move the page just because he was born in Jamaica is not an excuse. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:09, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Dude, are you even looking at the page. He also played for the Jamaican national team, so therefore, he's Jamaican. – Michael (talk) 17:11, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if he spent the majority of his career in america. The nationality will never change, he's Jamaican, so the title page should be left as it is. – Michael (talk) 17:17, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

What's your point? You have no consensus to move the page. He also plays for an American team, not to mention he has lived in America for most of his life and has been here since a young age. Immigrants do not randomly use spellings of where they came from. If a British person moved to America when he was five, he would still use American spellings, etc. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:14, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't do that man. American citizen doesn't matter anymore since he played for the Jamaican national team. Leave it as it is man. – Michael (talk) 17:21, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

He's also an American citizen. I'm going to move the page back. If you would like to gain consensus for the move you are more than welcome to. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:18, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

He played what three games or so for them? He has been an everyday player for American teams since 2002. If there is support for the move fine, but you need to get consensus first. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:23, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

You are welcome to comment on the move discussion on the talk page for the article. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:31, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

I just started a discussion on WT:FOOTY. – Michael (talk) 17:33, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

What on Earth are you doing? The lede of all soccer player paragraphs indicate his SPORTING NATIONALITY. It doesn't matter where he was born, or where he grew up, or where he lives - if he has played for at an international level, he is considered to have that nationality. Johnson was born in Jamaica, but could have been born in Outer Mongolia and grown up in Timbuktu. The fact that that he PLAYS INTERNATIONALLY FOR JAMAICA makes him Jamaican and ONLY Jamaican. Not Jamaican-American. Jamaican-American is not a nationality, it's a cultural ethnicity. Stop changing it. --JonBroxton (talk) 16:00, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, his article is a biography, not a sports profile. Also, seeing that he is from Massachusetts, my first thought was that he was born in Kingston, MA. Jamaica is not obvious in any way. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 16:30, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Then you need to go and change every single biography in Wikipedia where the player's legal nationality differs from his sporting nationality, because members of WP:FOOTY have always listed their nationality as being for the country they represent at an international level, as per the recognized FIFA standard. There will be a several thousand, so if you get started now you should be done by the end of the summer. --JonBroxton (talk) 16:50, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't have to do anything. I care about this article and if that's the only one I change so be it. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 16:52, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

And I care about every soccer article of every player playing in in leagues in the United States, and have made thousands and thousands of edits to player articles as per the agreed standards, conventions and of the Wikiproject, including this one. Mikemor92 is also a member of the same project, and also works tirelessly on articles on the subject. You do not, it seems. I would say that he and I have much more experience than you in understanding how soccer player articles are laid out and formatted. His original argument, and my subsequent comments, are in line with the conventions for articles on all American soccer players, and most other soccer players around the world. --JonBroxton (talk) 16:58, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

While I do applaud you efforts to improve soccer related articles, I can't help it if it seems at least one of the editing habits related to your project seems to contradict WP:BLP guidelines. Like I said before, the article is not a soccer profile, it is a biography of the person. You can't just be like oh he plays for Jamaica so growing up in America since he was a baby and living there full time means nothing. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:09, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

We're not saying it means nothing. It is clearly mentioned in the prose, where he grew up and went to school. What we're saying is that, for all soccer players, the nationality convention which takes precedence is the national team they play for, not their place of birth or where they grew up. It's just the way it works. Johnson was born in Jamaica, grew up in the United States, and plays for the Jamaican national team, so he's Jamaican. If Johnson played for the US national team he would be listed as American only, despite his place of birth. If, for some convoluted reason, he was eligible to play for the Czech national team, his nationality would be listed as Czech, despite his place of birth and where he grew up. Anyone who understands how world soccer works knows this. The only time his place of birth or legal nationality becomes relevant is if he has never played for a national team - if that is the case, we would use whichever one makes most sense, or find a source to clarify which country he identifies with the most. I'm not meaning to sound argumentative - really, I'm not - but you're making an issue where one does not exist. --JonBroxton (talk) 18:27, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

The problem here is that you are looking at solely from the project point of view. I mean I get that this is what is done, but there is no reason other than always doing it that way. My biggest concern is that it goes against general wikipedia biography guidelines. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 18:30, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Eastern Bank

The DYK project (nominate) 08:03, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Articles protected

Due to on-going edit warring, some articles you have edited related to Despina Vandi and Anna Vissi have been protected from editing. Please see Talk:Anna Vissi discography#Articles protected for more details. Camaron · Christopher · talk 11:40, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

I have unprotected the articles due to a lack of activity, see Talk:Anna Vissi discography#Articles protected. Camaron · Christopher · talk 12:30, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Ryan Johnson (footballer)

(Discussion started by me on other user's talk page) Hello, I see that you closed the discussion as no consensus for the move. Therefore, the page needs to be moved back to its original name from which it was moved without consensus. Thanks. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 00:18, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

No, there was no consensus to move. That means it stays where it is. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:44, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I was taking the high road by starting the discussion. The page was moved without consensus and every time I moved it back the other editor claimed he was right and kept moving it. Therefore "where it is" is what it was since there was no consensus for the move in the first place. That is what was established. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 02:13, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

MSN

yeah, long time no talk, I've had a lot of problems with MSN and just haven't got round to asking for yours, would it be possible if I could get it? Afro (DontTazeMeBro) ^{- Afkatk} 13:53, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Melrose Patch

Hi there: this is Daniel DeMaina, editor of Melrose Patch (melrose.patch.com). I'm curious as to why you deleted my addition to the Melrose, Massachusetts Wikipedia page? I saw "not notable" and "advertising" listed as reasons, but the page has references to both the Melrose Free Press and Melrose Weekly News that are news organizations just like Melrose Patch. Just a heads-up, I'm adding back in now. Please e-mail me at danield@patch.com if you have any concerns.

Thanks, Daniel

MBTA Bus

The source links that I updated are very reliable. I have in the past been to Boston and verified that the information that I liked to is reliable. Please remove any "unreliable source" references from this page. Ctrabs74 (talk) 15:42, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Replied on your talk. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 20:39, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi. I don't believe that the source's information is wrong, however, it is unreliable in the eyes of Wikipedia. Wikipedia relies on verifiability, not truth. The website is not official in any way and seems to be updated by some random person who has access to the inventory of MBTA equipment. We do not have any way of knowing if the information is correct, which is why a more reliable source is necessary. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 20:39, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Re: knight and day wiki page - Request for changing rotten tomatoes data

Hi.

It seems that you had updated the wrong value of rotten tomatoes rating in critical reception section, if iam not wrong

Currently its 54 % in rotten tomatoes website of T-meter .Critics rate it 53% But its updated in the wiki page as 47 %.

For reference:

http://beta.rottentomatoes.com/m/knight_and_day/

So can you please look into it and do the needful change.

Thanks

coolguychn —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coolguychn (talk • contribs) 03:32, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

The percentage given is the "fresh" rating. To get the "rotten" rating you need to subtract the "fresh" from 100% (100%-53% fresh=47% rotten). Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 11:49, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Certifications

(Discussion started by me on other user's talk page) Hello, I read your multiple messages on Greek album talk pages. Unfortunately, a certification is an award given to an artist by IFPI Greece alone. Levels stand at whatever they were awarded originally based on the certification levels at that time. IFPI Greece shows a list of the certification levels throughout the years. You cannot self-award albums additional certification levels. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 01:45, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

In respons to your message: I saw that you changed it all back, and the reason why you did it, so it's cool (in fact, I reckon it silly that I couldn't think of that). Still, though, I find it rather confusing. The sales numbers don't reflect the certifications (and vice versa). It's strange that "Kravgi" has reached 7x platinum with the sales of 175,000 copies, while "Gia" has reached 5x platinum with sales of 200,000 copies. :s Would you happen to know what makes the difference? I mean, even if you only take the level of certification of the years that both cds were released, then "Gia" should've had more x platinum, right?

Anyhow, I'm not favouring one or the other, I like them both, and enjoy the albums of both of them (I know that there appears to be some sort of ongoing fued between the fanbases of both artists :s). Just trying to understand how one should see the certifications in Greece, so if you know something about that, and if you please, do elaborate. That would be brill. :) --Robster1983 (talk) 17:28, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the sales of the two albums you picked out, Kravgi sold 175,000 double cds or 350,000 discs. IFPI counts discs, not albums for some reason. In November of 2002 when it was released, the threshold was 50,000 discs for platinum: 350,000/50,000=7x plat. As for Gia (album), I'm not really sure where the sales numbers came from (a reason why we try to exclude them, but there are some tiresome people who keep adding them back), but her official site says 5x plat. Also, the site used for 400,000 discs, I'm not sure if they are including all the re-releases (which would be given out at the newer lower cert rates, and the international sales, which IFPI would not award for). Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 22:16, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, it makes much more sense now! Thnx so much for the clearification! :) But isn't there like a site from IFPI on which one can find the actual sales/ certifications? In The Netherlands that would be http://www.nvpi.nl/nvpi/pagina.asp?pagkey=60463 (NVPI). Doesn't IFPI support something like that? :s That would make the 'battle of the numbers' quite easier. :) --Robster1983 (talk) 12:36, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

IFPI Greece doesn't seem to care about anyone but itself. Their "short transition" to a new tracking system was supposed to be up and running by July 2009. Then they said Septemeber 2009, and then they changed it to not have a date at all. Repeated emails have gone unanswered about certifications and chart positions. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 16:25, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

That is such a pity! Such great artists, yet no means of awarding them (well... they could have the means, if they wanted to, I guess :s). Hey, but since I reckon you as someone who might know things about the Greek music-scene, another question: I can't shake of the feeling that the Greek music-scene as a whole is in a difficult time. Many artists don't release their cds via music shops anymore, and, instead of that, they sell it via newspapers. To me, it seems that only the big artists are still/ also releasing their albums via music shops, and even then the price of the cd has dropped significantly, for it has a cheaper package. That's how it seems to me. Is that true? I also reckoned some artists don't release cds at all anymore. I mean, the new album of Elli Kokkinou was expected in the beginning of last year, but she only releases some digital singles every now and then, or so it seems. :s I reckon this a rather difficult question to answer, but I will ask it anyway: would you happen to know what's going on in the Greek music industry? --Robster1983 (talk) 10:28, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

A lot of artists are releasing their albums through newspapers because it is an easy way to get them into the hands of the consumer and build a larger fan base. Artists make most of their money from appearances and concerts, so sales only have a large effect on the record labels...for the most part. Also the new packages are not why they are cheaper. New packages are "eco-friendly"; they are produced for the benefit of the environment, not to cut costs. An American label actually told me that they pay more for the eco-cases. CD's in Greece had been overpriced for sometime now. In the US, a CD is about 12-14 dollars while in Greece they were approaching 20 euro (27 dollars or so, so cheaper prices benefit exports too I guess). Overall, the industry is plagued with efficiency problems unfortunately. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 01:20, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Thnx so much for the explanation! :D I always assumed that more fragile cd-packaging was because of cutting costs. :s Also, finding out that the two 'grand divas' of Greek music (Anna & Despina) both released their latest albums ("Apagorevmeno+" (Discbox Slider, (btw, another good example of this is Natassa Theodoridou's album "Mia Kokkini Grammi")) and "C'est La Vie" (regular, though 'thinner' jewel case packaging), respectively) at a price twice as less as 'usual' cds, and both cds in a, what I thought, cheaper packaging, let me to believe this. :) Well, anyhow, it's a good thing that cd-prices have dropped in Greece, because they were even more expensive over there, then they are in my country, which is the Netherlands, but also Belgium and Germany (in all countries the median price lays between the €10 and €15, which is some $13 to $20). Which is quite strange for the median Greek income is some ¾% of the median Dutch income, yet cds over here are cheaper. :s All in all I hope the Greek music industry has the power to cope with all of this, yet I reckon it a task quite difficult. :( Robster1983 (talk) 20:37, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

DYK for St. Methodios Faith and Heritage Center

— Rlevse • Talk • 06:02, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter

Good work with the newsletter, my efforts over there had just run out of steam. I generally agree with what your saying in From the Members, we do suffer from a lack of co-ordination in this project. I changed my MSN/WLM address a while ago, and I manually notified everyone of the change. If you missed it, let me know, and I'll e-mail my new address it to you. I have also set myself to auto-log-in now so I should be on more often. CT Cooper · talk 16:21, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

I'll have to check about the MSN thing. When you were numbering the members did you remove a few? The numbers don't seem to add up. Last issue we had 80 members (I went back in the history and counted the member list) and this issue we have 82 even though 7 joined and one left. It doesn't make sense! I tried comparing it it seemed like everyone was there, but 4 are missing. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 18:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes I did remove a few blocked or banned users, plus if I remember correctly, one duplicate entry with a user listed under both their current username, and their old username, after having been re-named by a bureaucrat. I probably didn't note it in the edit summary due to lack of space. CT Cooper · talk 20:35, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Ok, because before you had stated that you removed a few and I couldn't tell in the diff if you had this time. Could you proofread the newsletter and make sure it is ready to be published, and if it is, have a bot do it today? Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 16:01, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately I've been out all day today and I'm too tired do a proper proof read and get the bot ready. However, I can get that done tomorrow morning (my time) for you. CT Cooper · talk 20:18, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

I have given the newsletter a through read and asked Xeno (talk · contribs) to deliver. Last time round Xeno raised concern that the newsletter was stacking up on talk pages of those who had long since left the project. To solve this problem, I have noted that this is the last edition going to everyone, with future editions only going to those listed as active, so users will know if they are going to be cut-off. CT Cooper · talk 11:12, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

It makes sense to stop delivering to people who are not active at all, but for the ones who are active elsewhere on wikipedia, the newsletter is sort of a reminder about Eurovision. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 16:00, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Well two users on the inactive list that are active elsewhere in the project have removed themselves from the membership list completely in response to the receiving the newsletter. A lot, if not most projects with a newsletter, have a newsletter opt-in list separate from the membership list allowing editors to opt-in to the newsletter when they would not otherwise receive it. We could start it by listing all users in the inactive list who are still active elsewhere on the project on the presumption that they are still interested in the project. We would have to note on the next edition of the newsletter that this has occurred, so users can remove themselves from this new list if they want to. CT Cooper · talk 21:30, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Well a few more are now signing-up, though it appears our membership list is popular with socks of blocked/banned users. CT Cooper · talk 12:01, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I sent out a few invites (though not to the now blocked user). Even if the editor isn't someone I would consider ideal and reliable, I hope that by being involved in the project they learn the right way to do things instead of continuing to do small edits here and there that make more work for us later. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 12:17, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - March through July 2010

Note: the Newsletter is "collapsed" for convenience. To see the full letter, click on the "show" button at the right end of the gray bar.

If you are no longer interested in WikiProject Eurovision then please remove your name from this list.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of CT Cooper at 19:36, 2 August 2010 (UTC).

Re: Happy Birthday (2010)

Look, if you want to come to the party, you'll have to bring your own cake. :D -- [[ axg ◉ talk ]] 15:20, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

MSN

Hey, what's your msn address again? I need to query something about sourcing. -Diggiloo (talk) 16:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I haven't been on in a long time. It might be easier to email me using the "email user" function on wiki. I see that you don't have yours set up? Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:03, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Sent. :) -Diggiloo (talk) 18:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

image:upright

Hi Grk1011!
I don't agree with your last edit of Rebetiko. You stated: images should not be forced a size as it interferes with preference setting. True. But the "upright"-option does not force an image to a fixed size – it's just a scaling method. User's preferences are not affected. See Help:Visual_file_markup#Resize_tall_files and Help:Visual_file_markup/upright (Section Short, wide images: Short, wide images sometimes benefit from "upright" factors greater than 1.0.). I upscaled he first image in order to show the instruments on the wall, and the second image because it is exactly what is stated in the help – a short, wide image. The third one was a copy-error; upright=1 has no effect on the scaling at all. Please reconsider your edit. →Alfie^±Talk 23:49, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I felt that the images overpowered the page. Usually if someone wanted to see the details they would click on the image for a larger view. Not everyone has a widescreen monitor, so for me it was huge and took up more than half of the width of the screen. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 00:11, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

[[file:Rembetes Karaiskaki 1933.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.5|left|alt=Photo of Rebetes in Karaiskaki, Piraeus (1933)|''Rebetes'' in Karaiskaki, Piraeus (1933). Left Vamvakaris with bouzouki, middle Batis with guitar.]]

Hi Stephen!
Fine with me for the first one. Though I'm using a large screen myself, my browser's viewport is just 1024×768. I would still like to upscale the photo at Rebetiko#The_1930s – what do you think about a compromise (upscale 1.5 instead of 2)? IMHO without upscaling the caption doesn't make sense: Who is who? ;-) →Alfie^±Talk 00:49, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Yea that should be fine. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 01:34, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

THX! →Alfie^±Talk 01:37, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

MSN

Hey fellow Stephen!

Just reading the Eurovision newsletter and thought I'd ask you for your AIM & MSN :-)

Speak soon StephenSjc07 (talk) 14:48, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Err, do you not have your wiki email on? Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 18:59, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Will not be able to do that much editing during the school times because of exams

Hi sorry I have got rid of everything on the project about me and that I have place the Eurovision article back to normal it's just that I am going to struggle when going back to school to keep on editing because of revising for exams, I just wouldn't have time so I am not going to do it any more. Good luck with the rest of the articles! :) --Dan221094 (talk) 17:11, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

I will try and do the best I can

Ok i will try and do the best i can do you want me to put back the colours that back on the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dan221094 (talk • contribs) 17:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

How many people in the project have to approve so i can add the colours for the final table?

How many people in the project have to approve so i can add the colours for the final table? --Dan221094 (talk) 17:24, 31 August 2010 (UTC)