User talk:Financefactz

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Dublin postal districts

Hi. Dublin postal districts (Dublin 4, Dublin 2, etc) are commonly referred to by their simple abbreviations (D2, D4, etc). As per the section on the Dublin 4 article which deals with the use of 'D4' in common parlance. Unless or until the more recent Eircode abbreviations replace these existing common names or common abbreviations, there would seem to be no need to replace references to "D2" with references to "D02" or similar. Thanks. (Separately. What's up with your user talkpage. Ideally test edits would be made in your sandbox. And not here.) Guliolopez (talk) 15:45, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Fair enough. I would say D4 is just the colloquial name for the area in this day and age since they brought in Eircode but the postcode is D04 and then xxx for the specific property e.g. - D04 TP03 for the United States embassy and not for example D4 TP03. If you are trying to order an item and you put in the incorrect code such as D4 then many websites will not allow it. Much of a muchness though and I suppose it is being a bit pedantic of me and you seem to be quite invested in this so fire away with D4. Financefactz (talk) 16:25, 15 October 2019 (UTC) Financefactz

Postcodes are often used by people who aren't Irish to locate properties (I worked with a UK bank who were selling a portfolio of Irish property loans in a previous life) and are unique identifier codes. Much like a telephone number, they don't really work if you miss a digit. Financefactz

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Speedy deletion nomination of File:Interior of Belvedere House.jpg

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December 2019: Edit Warring at Tax havens

Your recent editing history at Tax haven shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. I would advise you to: (1) avoid personal attacks regarding my edits (I did not create this article, or the leprechaun economics article, as you assert), and (2) revert your last edit as you have violated WP:3RR, and (3) discuss the issue on the Talk Page per my offer. thanks. Britishfinance (talk) 15:08, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Your contributed article, Tallest approved buildings in the Republic of Ireland

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Discretionary sanctions and 1RR notification

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in the Troubles. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

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FDW777 (talk) 12:57, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

In addition the Mary Lou McDonald article, and similar articles, are subject to a 1-revert-rule restriction, meaning no more than one revert in a 24 hour period. The addition of supposed FF membership has been discussed at Talk:Mary Lou McDonald#Fianna Fáil, it has been denied by Mary Lou and should not be added without consensus. FDW777 (talk) 12:57, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

I haven't edited any page related to the troubles at any stage. Noted re the Fianna Fail edit, it was through ignorance rather than a deliberate disobedience that I edited and I will refrain from now on Financefactz (talk) 13:32, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. Sorry, I should have made my initial post clearer. The definition of "The Troubles" is slightly wider than just the conflict itself. The definition used can be seen at {{Troubles restriction}}, to save you having to possibly navigate away it reads "pages relating to The Troubles, Irish Nationalism and British Nationalism in relation to Ireland". While some might say "Irish Nationalism" is a rather wide definition that could include the majority of political parties in Ireland, there is the counter-view that a major Irish republican party is very much covered by the definition. As the template itself says, "When in doubt, assume it is related". I hope that clarifies things for you. FDW777 (talk) 15:24, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Cairn Homes moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Cairn Homes, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. GirthSummit _(blether) 18:56, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi - just a bit more explanation on why I moved this to draft space. Your article was sourced only to the subject's website - that's not appropriate. You need multiple reliable, secondary and independent sources, both the support the assertions, and to demonstrate that the subject would satisfy the criteria at WP:NCORP. Assuming what you've said about the company in the article is accurate about its listings, market capitalisation and so on, I'd be surprised if sources weren't out there - if you can add two or three sources of the quality outlined at WP:CORPDEPTH, this could be published. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 18:59, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

There is actually no reason to interfere here it is one of only 2 companies on the ISEQ 20 not to have a page with the other already having a related page set up for a related entity. An article with 3 citations already included and which is well structured to stub level for a listed company should be left as it and I would request you reinstate it immediately. This is a particularly irritating given the fact it was only made a few hours ago. Two of the citations are to stock exchange listings as well which makes it particularly annoying.Financefactz (talk) 23:00, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

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Thank you for creating Doheny & Nesbitt.

User:Blythwood, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Looks solid-and notable enough I felt it was worth doing a Wikimedia Commons category for it.

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RE: Laurel Lodge

I don't know why you included this sentence Darren J. Prior (talk) 22:16, 27 May 2020 (UTC)FinancefactsDarren J. Prior (talk) 22:16, 27 May 2020 (UTC) " (Laurel Lodge) is synonymous with the ecclesiastical parish of St. Thomas the Apostle." The parish of St. Thomas includes or covers a lot more area than Laurel Lodge and the majority of people in Laurel Lodge are not religiously-minded so I don't see the value in adding that sentence particularly at the start of the page. Darren J. Prior (talk) 22:16, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Darren J. PriorDarren J. Prior (talk)

Hi Daren, No offence intended! It seemed to be almost the exact same information covered in both pages so I wasn't sure if you were aware of it and linked it anyway. I have left a message in the talk page stating that there should probably be

• A page for the ecclesiastical parish - St Thomas the Apostle parish, Laurel Lodge
  
• A page for the estate - Laurel Lodge

But that it would be an issue if there were two different pages and they were both repeating a lot of the same information. It may be the case that some of the information from one will have to be transferred to the other. I will delete the reference to the ecclesiastical parish in the page now and let you tip away at it without interference. The User:Laurel Lodged might be of help and I see you have used one of the photos they have uploaded already.Financefactz (talk) 22:26, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

OK. Thanks. Darren J. Prior (talk) 22:50, 27 May 2020 (UTC)Darren J. PriorDarren J. Prior (talk) 22:50, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Dublin Civic Trust and Irish Landmark Trust

Hi. Is there a connection between the Dublin Civic Trust and the Irish Landmark Trust? If so, what is that connection? And, if there is no connection, what does "operates alongside" mean to you? (Yes. Both of those entities are engaged in the protection or improvement of heritage buildings. But so are the Irish Heritage Trust, Irish Georgian Society, Heritage Council, Industrial Heritage Association, An Taisce, and several other bodies. Why are we implying a link between these two specifically? And not the rest. And, if there is a link which is special to these two orgs, what is it?). Apologies if I'm overlooking something obvious but, when researching the Irish Landmark Trust, I did not find anything to support the suggestion that the two "partner" or "collaborate" or otherwise "link up" on projects or initiatives. Or have shared or overlapping governance. Or funding. Or whatever. Guliolopez (talk) 15:53, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

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Spencer Dock and bridge

Hiya. Thanks for adding those refs/clarifications/etc. As per the notes you added most recently, my understanding is that the bridge (crossing Spencer Dock at Sheriff Street) was originally called "Spencer Bridge". Certainly that's how it is marked on late 19th century maps. Common/later variants seem to be "Spencer Lifting Bridge" or "Spencer Drawbridge". While it may have been renamed (following reconstruction) in the 1940s, it may be the COMMONNAME just evolved. Certainly, after the opening of the Scherzer bridge at the "mouth" of the dock in 1912, there would've been a need for differentiation that there wasn't before (on which "Spencer Dock Bridge" the speaker was talking about).

Anyway, while I'm not overly fussed either way, when those stone plaques were placed (in 1873), it was "Spencer Bridge". Which was why I adjusted the image label (which describes those plaques) as I did. Anyway, I think it's all sorted now.... Guliolopez (talk) 17:00, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

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"Bag men" and the various planning scandals

Hey! I noticed that you have edited a few of the articles I created recently about office buildings built in Dublin from the 1960s and 1970s. I'm working my way through Frank McDonald's The Destruction of Dublin (1985) (and I have his two subsequent books) and it goes into a lot of detail about the various property developers and the politicians that were later implicated in some of the planning scandals and tribunals. Is this an area you had ever thought about working on? I'm thinking like Des Traynor and Matt Gallagher (and his son, Patrick). Given his profile, I was very surprised to see Traynor doesn't have an article. Just in case it was something you'd thought about working on, or if you had any thoughts! Smirkybec (talk) 13:05, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi talk Frank McDonald's book is not really a great source from which to work as it is more of an opinion piece from a journalist and planning lobbyist than a factual piece or an attempt at real insight. Many of the points noted in the book are outright lies or distortions of the truth - see his twitter account, although I largely agree with his opinions I take issue with how he gets to them. I could certainly have a look at Des Traynor but I usually try and steer clear of BLPs or anything that could stray into subjective investigative journalism and away from encyclopedic content but would happy to have in age, position, progress, career milestones, associates etc.Financefactz (talk) 13:19, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi! Well indeed, McDonald is not to be used in isolation, but it is more to use as a jumping off point to identify some of the figures involved (as well as the architects etc). You've seen yourself how I've used the book to start a few articles, and I don't think there are any glaring NPOV issues so far. Traynor died back in 1994, so no fear of a BLP there. Smirkybec (talk) 14:00, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Hotels in Tipperary

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List of missing persons in Ireland

Hi @Financefactz: I wonder why you think this article is notable, particulalry since it is dynamic in nature and will need filling until the end of time, and is perhaps best served on the police site? scope_creep^Talk 18:20, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of List of missing persons in Ireland for deletion

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List of subdivisions of County Dublin - piped links to non-townland articles

Hi! I understand that the redlinks are a little frustrating, but is it really useful to divert them to such things as churches and the brewery? At least I think this should be discussed on the relevant Talk page, no? SeoR (talk) 09:48, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

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LOL

Hi. If this edit summary is intended as a joke, then fine. LOL. I'll laugh along. If it is something else, then I'm not sure what to say. Other than I do not appreciate the suggestion. At all. And that, if you have any WP:AGF concerns, my edit history will stand for itself.

In terms of the edits themselves, you have added text to the effect that the "court has confirmed that the organisation's purpose is to embezzle funds". Can you advise please which court made that confirmation/judgement and where that judgement is expressed in the available sources? Otherwise please remember, as well you know as a longstanding editor, that WP:ATP and WP:PROMO are two sides of the same coin. Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 13:01, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Fundamentally it should not have a wikipedia page and was set up as an advertisement to recruit more hapless victims into the scam. While the extensive Wikipedia rules may not cover precisely this very specific instance, I think that if you do wish to keep the page (for reasons unknown to me), then at the very least it should be clearly flagged that it is a scam. It fails most of the prerequisites for starting a Wikipedia page. It is not registered for tax, as a charity, as a company or as a trust in any jurisdiction and there are no citations provided for this as they simply do not exist. Is it a non-registered brand name used by assorted con-artists? Yes, it is. There are doubts over whether it can truly said to be an organisation at all as it doesn't seem to fit any of the criteria for being an organisation. I suggest that the page change its name to the Rodolphus Allen Family Private Trust‎ Scam immediately before a more serious discussion begins on whether or not the page should be kept in the coming days.

At a minimum, I suggest that at least that you consider reviewing some of your earlier edits on the page to remove language implying this vague scam has some integrity behind it. It should also be noted that some of the initial older articles on the scam were composed by local newspapers who do not have a good grasp of the issue and were written at a time when they were not aware it was a scam. No doubt the revelations of the last few days relating to Catriona Carey brought the whole issue back into the public consciousness.Financefactz (talk) 14:12, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Hiya. A couple of points there.

1. RE: AGF. I notice you didn't comment on your "lol - do you have a connection to the scam??" EDSUMM. So I will assume that it was a joke. As I thought. If so it's hilarious. But note that other editors might not have the same sense of humour as I do. And may have consider such a joke to be an accusation or bad-faith or a personal attack. Good thing I'm such good craic.
2. RE: NN. The notability criteria for organisations (or other subjects) doesn't necessarily expect that they be registered companies or charities or trademarks or whatever. Simply that they be the subject of WP:SIGCOV. This subject has been the topic of quite a bit of coverage. Granted (in the early days) by some local newspapers who, as you note and unfortunately, perhaps did not focus enough on the nature and operations of the subject. But, the subsequent coverage in otherwise reliable/national sources extensively covers the subject in some detail. (Including the arrests of those involved [like Allen and Gilroy], the injunctions taken against it/them, the discourse and warnings about the org raised in both houses of the Oireachtas, etc.) This level of coverage, to my view, meets WP:SIGCOV.
3. RE: NPOV. I'm not sure what edits you are referring to, but the WP:NPOV and WP:VER requirements are pretty clear in how opinions and positions should be represented. To my read the article correctly focuses more on the sources and coverage which questions the legality and veracity of the claims associated with and by supporters of the org. You assertion, that the courts adjudged the subject to be a scam, is not supported by the sources. While Senator Thomas Byrne reportedly referred the trust to the gardaí, and likely some investigation has been undertaken by the fraud squad, AFAIK no prosecution or court action (for fraud, theft or embezzlement) has occurred.
4. RE: ADVERT. I do not see how a claim that the article was initially created "as an advertisement to recruit more hapless victims" has any validity. The initial version of the article, as created by CivisHibernius, does not appear to have any such intent. As with your "joke" about me, if you are making similar "jokes" about other users and their AGF intentions, then you'd want to take another look at related etiquette guidelines. To my read, the initial creator went to some length to include and accurately reflect the sources which questioned the validity of the organisation's claims. Including in Deeter's takedown/breakdown piece.
5. RE: TITLE. WP:COMMONNAME is what determines article titles.
6. RE: CAREY. Yes. The "[A] give me your money -> [B] unspecified and pseudo-legal/financial things will happen -> [C] you'll be debt free" claims associated with Carey do seem very similar to those associated with Allen. Albeit that the unspecified thing in the middle ([B]) had changed between 2013 and 2022. Perhaps there was an ideas exchange in 2013. When Carey reputedly acted as an administrator for Allen's organisation. I don't know. The reliable sources have little to say on this connection and overlap. And that is where I look. In the RSes. I personally look forward to reading RS news articles (hopefully sooner rather than later) when the courts *are* asked to offer an opinion or judgement on the activities of Rodolphus Allen Family Private Trust and/or Careysfort Asset Estates Ltd. And will be the first to reflect those sources in either/both articles. Until then, unilaterally declaring things (not overtly stated in reliable sources) isn't in keeping with related guidelines.

Cheers. Guliolopez (talk) 17:56, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Re Lol, your edits had toned down the narrative of the article initially to promote its reputability. If you look back in a detailed way through the edit history you will see that this has happened time and time again with users and accounts who obviously have a vested interest in keeping the page going as an advertisement for the scam. I note you have now slightly revised your tone so that it is not as gushing towards the "organisation" (Have you accepted that is is not an organisation). I will review your other comments and edits over the next few days.

It is not unreasonable to suggest that someone who tried to edit a page which is an advertisement for a scam may, like previous editors, have some connection or vested interest in keeping the scam going. The only real way to assuage these views would be to use your no doubt extensive editorial skills which you have used across other articles over many years and apply them here and do as much research as possible on the topic before making the edits. As Al Pacino said in the film Glengarry Glen Ross - "never pull the trigger til you know what the shot is" - the shot in this case is accidentally helping to promote a confidence scam. Financefactz (talk) 19:07, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

There are also several veiled threats above which I will ignore.Financefactz (talk) 19:16, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi. I am not making any veiled threats. You, on the other hand, continue to make statements which are counter to WP:AGF and WP:AOBF. I have made more than 150,000 edits across the project over 15 years. None of my edits on that article can remotely be described as "gushing". And, yes, it *is* unreasonable to suggest that just editing an article related to a "scam" might imply a verted interested in the scam. It absolutely is unreasonable. End of. Guliolopez (talk) 21:00, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Financefactz. Thank you for creating Marino House. User:TheLongTone, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

An article about an old building which has not been converted to a hotel or the like! Well I never

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@TheLongTone: An entire suburb is named after it (Marino, Dublin), one of the folly's in the estate is a national monument (the Casino at Marino). It was the home of one of the most famous Irish and British individual's of the day (James Caulfeild, 1st Earl of Charlemont) and was also one of his family seat's. The grounds of the house contain at least 5 listed structures including the original entrance gates and some of the folly's. I can find it mentioned at least 7 other separate times by other users throughout Wikipedia articles. Financefactz (talk) 13:54, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

TheLongTone (talk) 13:47, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Jervis Street Hospital

Thanks for contributing to the article Jervis Street Hospital. However, one of Wikipedia's core policies is that contributions must be verifiable through reliable sources, preferably using inline citations. Please help by adding more sources to the article you edited, and/or by clarifying how the sources already given support the claims (see here for how to do inline referencing). If you need further help, you can look at Help:Menu/Editing Wikipedia, or ask at the Teahouse, or just ask me. Thank you. Dormskirk (talk) 16:41, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Boland's Mill

Hi Financefactz I'm currently adding information on the Easter Rising on the Boland's Mill page and there is an editing conflict. An addition of (now the site of the Treasury Building) has been added to the Mill rather than the Bakery, which is now the site of the Treasury Building. Can you take a look please? Thank you Smidgeonhousedublin (talk) 10:38, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

@Smidgeonhousedublin: Fire away and add whatever information you want to add but note that The Treasury building is on Grand Canal Street and Boland's Mill (the article you have edited) is on Barrow street. So there likely has been some sort of a mix-up. Much of the information you have added seems to be unrelated to the mill on Barrow Street and may be more relevant to other pages such as the one on the Easter Rising more generally or Boland's bakery or even the Treasury Buildng. Financefactz (talk) 10:46, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you

For expanding Kenure House from a redirect, have this steaming cup of tea to keep you invigorated while editing! Johannes Schade (talk) 16:40, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Kenure House

Dear Financefactz. Did you enjoy making an article from a redirect page? I did that same thing for the article Callaghan MacCarty, 3rd Earl of Clancarty, wherupon User:CaptainEek sent me a cup of tea just as I did now send one to you. I feel it is not right that the editor who created the redirect page with a minimal effort is credited to be the creator of an article with many thousands of characters. I have tried to delete such redirect pages that block the creation of an article but without success in the case of the redirect page Richard Parsons, 1st Viscount Rosse. In your case I wondered whether you could have circumvented the problem by creating the article under the name of "Rush House", redirect Kenure House to Rush House and then later rename it. I would be very pleased to hear from you. With thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 18:05, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Hello Johannes, Many thanks for the cup of tea. I felt Kenure House was the name which most readers would be familiar with so I went with that option and I did not even consider that I would not be getting credit, in all honesty, but its nice to know that there are people looking out for me! Financefactz (talk) 13:19, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

The Old Custom House, Dublin

Thanks for your work on the above page. Ridiculopathy (talk) 21:55, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

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Irish architecture: Liam McCormick

Please avoid undoing edits, if you can adjust them. That Liam McCormick is not included in the page on Irish Architecture is a failing of the page. The whole page isn't particularly great, so commenting on a breaking narrative flow was a bit stupid. 2001:BB6:2D1D:C200:B59C:802D:A1C7:75D9 (talk) 23:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Dutch Billy

I happened upon your sandbox having noticed you have the RII building there and saw you have a redlink to Dutch Billy. This is a topic I did some research on a few years ago and wanted to write the article but other topics have come to the fore. I can did out some sources and maybe you would join me in writing it up even if it's just a stub or short start class for now. Some of the street you mention have had their frontage modified as I have seen from some sources. Thoughts? ww2censor (talk) 16:29, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello ww2censor, Feel free to plough on with it, it has been a long time since I've had a look at it but I will happily join you in editing. It is quite a niche subject but here is a few nice free pictures and paintings we can draw upon such as this painting of Marrowbone Lane. It is possible that almost all streets in Dublin were full of pitched rooves and Dutch gables for a period of time.

Joseph Malachy Kavanagh - Old Dublin

O'Connell Street

Hi. You wrote, "already all fully cited, no further responses to my comments on the talk page". However, there have been no non-bot edits on the talk page since the article passed a good article review in 2021.

The principal problem with your edits are that they go against the good article criteria. Specifically, the "Verifiable with no original research" sections states, "reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose);". And the "Well-written" section, the Manual of Style for layout states "Short paragraphs and single sentences generally do not warrant their own subheadings".

I'm sorry if this comes across as possibly arrogant, but the good article criteria exist so that we can show readers that an article is well-written and trusted, and it's disheartening to see editors ignore this or not appearing to care about the criteria. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:09, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Dominick Street, Dublin

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CS1 error on Mount Ievers Court

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CS1 error on The Custom House, Limerick

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Nelson's pillar

I am not sure what is difficult about WP:BRD or the request to use the talk page, but please do so, without the accusations of someone "sabotaging" anything. - SchroCat (talk) 14:18, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Your recent editing history at Nelson's Pillar shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war; read about how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. - SchroCat (talk) 14:28, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Please feel free to go through the various edits and which ones you take umbrage with either here or on the talk page.... I have been doing this for a while though.Financefactz (talk) 14:38, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

You continued edit warring, despite the warnings. And, before you screw up the article any further, it's an FA, which means there is a fairly strong consensus to overturn on any changes. - SchroCat (talk) 14:40, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

ps. You are not the only one who has been doing things for a while, but most of us do it to a high standard and in a collegiate manner. - SchroCat (talk) 14:41, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

I have no idea what an FA but my main concern is having an accurate and well cited article, the current one is not, I would suggest you have a read of some of the 1,000 plus Wikipedia pages I have written or edited on architectural subjects. Please do not delete citations without discussion first unless there has been a genuine error typo. Financefactz (talk) 14:44, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

You don't get to instruct me (or anyone else), I'm afraid. The current article is accurate and well-cited, as it fairly obvious from the fact is is classed as WP:FA and has been through two community review processes. That gives it a hefty consensus you have to overcome, and trying to enforce your version by edit warring is only going to end badly for you. - SchroCat (talk) 14:49, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. SchroCat (talk) 14:38, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

September 2023

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours for edit warring and violating the three-revert rule, as you did at Nelson's Pillar. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  Bbb23 (talk) 14:58, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Financefactz (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

It seems I had already reverted the page to the original content and was looking to discuss the edits on (1.) User:SchroCat's talk page (2.) My own talk page and (3.) (per the User's direction) the Nelson's Pillar talk page. Replies have not been forthcoming except where they related to Wikipedia more generally and I as a user, rather than the content of the page. After politely asking the User:SchroCat to stop sabotaging the page, I was told to "wind in your neck" on the individual's talk page and later on my own talk page it was stated "before you screw up the article any further" and "edit warring is only going to end badly for you". None of this seems to be civil and is frankly quite disrespectful and rude and in the last case, openly threatening.

It does not feel morally correct that we have a situation where this is essentially a captured page. The page cannot be discussed on the talk page, it cannot be discussed on my talk page and it cannot be discussed on another user's talk page. Are we stuck in a situation where clearly very relevant information is deliberately omitted from the page in favour of what some user's would regard as more interesting information on the life of Admiral Nelson? This is getting to the stage that we had with the captured pages that were established and running by the former User:Britishfinance. I have all times acted civilly and in the interest of the project, the same cannot be said for User:SchroCat who appears to have more of a personal gripe. Financefactz (talk) 16:07, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Decline reason:

You were edit warring. Attempting to justify it is not helpful. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 23:20, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

---

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It seems I had already reverted the page to the original content and was looking to discuss the edits on (1.) User:SchroCat's talk page (2.) My own talk page and (3.) (per the User's direction) the Nelson's Pillar talk page. Replies have not been forthcoming except where they related to Wikipedia more generally and I as a user, rather than the content of the page. After politely asking the User:SchroCat to stop sabotaging the page, I was told to "wind in your neck" on the individual's talk page and later on my own talk page it was stated "before you screw up the article any further" and "edit warring is only going to end badly for you". None of this seems to be civil and is frankly quite disrespectful and rude and in the last case, openly threatening.

It does not feel morally correct that we have a situation where this is essentially a captured page. The page cannot be discussed on the talk page, it cannot be discussed on my talk page and it cannot be discussed on another user's talk page. Are we stuck in a situation where clearly very relevant information is deliberately omitted from the page in favour of what some user's would regard as more interesting information on the life of Admiral Nelson? This is getting to the stage that we had with the captured pages that were established and running by the former User:Britishfinance. I have all times acted civilly and in the interest of the project, the same cannot be said for User:SchroCat who appears to have more of a personal gripe. Tagging User:BrownHairedGirl and User:Guliolopez Financefactz (talk) 16:07, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

There is no personal gripe (this is the first time we have interacted and you reverted without considering exactly what you were doing - my edit summary made very clear you were duplicating one of the IB fields, but you reverted anyway. Why?). Yes, I told you to wind your neck in, but when you come to my talk page and instruct me to "stop sabotaging the page", when I clearly wasn't, it's little wonder I said only that and nothing stronger. You personalised matters from our first interaction, when the edit summaries I left were neutral explanations of what I had done and why. If you start of personalising things and making untruthful accusations, while edit warring against an explained reversion, there's not much more that I can say. - SchroCat (talk) 16:13, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Rather than saying "stop sabotaging the page", I deliberately used the word "please" beforehand to form the sentence "Please stop sabotaging the page" in an attempt to engage and defuse the situation. Are we saying that the Irish Architectural Archive is not a reliable source for this building and structure? It would appear to me to be the most reliable of all sources, being as it is, extremely thorough, politically neutral and, free to access via the internet. Is it fair to wait the one minute between 14.07 and 14.08 as the user did to then revert my very small edits? I was hardly adding multiple paragraphs and then smaller edits can often make them easier to digest for readers and reviewers I have found. I would imagine the user seems to have felt frustrated at this particularly sensitive article which touches elements of Irish and British history is being edited without their oversight. Funnily, I was only adding information on the architecture and construction rather than wishing to wade into a political debate. Financefactz (talk) 16:25, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

I have left my reasons on the article talk page: I suggest you answer there once your block is lifted. I will only add that putting "please" in front of an order only changes something from aggressive to passive-aggressive. If someone said to you "Please stop being a complete ****", would it make it polite, just because the word "please" is used? I have no idea what you are talking about when you describe wading into "a political debate": there was nothing political in the edit warring, which is what your block is for. I will drop out of this now and await any comments you have to make to the article talk page. - SchroCat (talk) 16:30, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

You are now discussing a hypothetical situation where hypothetical comments have been made. I have not used any rude language or threats, although you have used threats. I have not added uncited information and I have engaged with the editing and review process across different formats as directed by you away from your talk page on to the specific page.

Finally, even though there was minimal engagement with my comments, I still reverted the page back to its original format and looked to mediate before ultimately receiving a block.

As I have reverted the page to its original format and looked to engage, I do not believe there is anything else I could have done except for not make the original edits. If I am unblocked I can happily rejoin the talk page discussion although I feel it may be a fairly empty discussion with just one party (me). Financefactz (talk) 16:39, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Wexford Arts Centre

Hi - Many thanks for adding Sir Richard Morrison as the architect. However Morrison was only born in 1767 and the building was completed in 1776 so he would have been a small child at the time the design was being developed. Thoughts welcome. Dormskirk (talk) 15:50, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Apologies, that was a bit sloppy from me. I did it off the top of my head without even looking. I will have a look for the actual architect! Financefactz (talk) 17:55, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Seems likely it was John Roberts but can't find anything for the moment... Financefactz (talk) 17:58, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

OK, thanks for that. Dormskirk (talk) 18:03, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi Financefactz. Thank you for your work on Golden Lane, Dublin. Another editor, Rosiestep, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

I really enjoyed reading this interesting article about a street in Dublin. Thank you for writing it.

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

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Thanks!

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The Victorian Turkish baths at Lincoln Place

Hi Financefactz. Thank you for your work on the Victorian Turkish baths at Lincoln Place. Rather than start editing something which you may not yet have finished, I thought it might be more helpful to make three or four comments directly to you to see whether we can agree on some minor changes.

1. I think the caption to the much better image in the infobox might have been leftover from the image it replaced. I'm fairly sure that the new image (of which I once owned a stereograph) is much earlier and probably closer to the opening date of 1860. Perhaps "Early 1860s" might be better.

2. The first line still seems a bit clumsy. Would we be allowed to put

"The Victorian Turkish baths at Lincoln Place, Dublin, opened on 2 February 1860."

3. The next point may seem a bit pedantic but it is probably better to be a bit pedantic in an encyclopaedia! On the first line in the History section, I think that it might be better to write, "…having been built under the auspices of Dr Richard Barter for the Turkish Bath Company of Dublin Limited."

4. Not every reader goes to the notes (where s/he would discover that we were referring here to the Richard Barter who was a physician), and since there is almost invariably confusion wherever a Richard Barter is mentioned (and the doctor's son was also named Richard), I think it is better to use Dr and Mr whenever the case arises.

5. Not everyone who is not Irish knows that O'Connell Street used to be called Sackville Street when the baths were built. Would it be better in the third History paragraph to write, "The Hammam on Sackville Street (since renamed O'Connell Street) on 17 March 1869."

6. (Following on from 4 above) might I suggest, "Designed by the sculptor and architect Mr Richard Barter (not a relation of Dr Richard Barter), the building was well received…", noting by omission that Dr Barter was not the owner of the baths which were, of course, owned by the company.

7. Finally, ending where I started, in the infobox under Architect. I know that Benson worked with Mr Barter on the design of the Bray Turkish baths, but I have not come across any source which suggests he was involved in the Lincoln Place baths, so I think his name should be removed unless you know of one which could then be noted, leaving the architect to be listed as, "(Mr) Richard Barter"

Sorry if I seem to have gone overboard a bit, but the comments are intended constructively, as I hope they will be received. Best wishes Ishpoloni (talk) 15:09, 8 August 2024 (UTC) Ishpoloni (talk) 15:09, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Turkish Baths

Hi @Ishpoloni:, I would imagine you would have better knowledge of Turkish baths than I, so have at it and make whatever edits you would like. I think I have left it in a better state than I found it. but it still has much room for improvement. I mostly agree with all of your points but maybe leave a wikilink to the street in the first line.

Are you sure it was a corporate that owned the baths? I imagine it was more likely a corporate that ran the baths as the trading company but an individual would almost certainly own the building, even back then, and a separate individual again, would own the long lease of the site that the building is on. The owner of the building was likely Mr Barter who would then give a lien or a charge over the building to lenders or creditors. If we are not sure it might be best to leave it out.

The Dictionary of Irish Architects says that Benson had some input on them as well as on the Bray baths here. They are rarely wrong as they are professional architectural researchers and academics with significantly better access to resources than you or I but as both were built at almost exactly the same time by the same people it seems plausible that he would have had involvement in both, maybe only as a superintendent rather than the design architect which was common then as is also common now.

Regarding the date of the photo, it looks about 1870, if you have a more accurate assessment based on some sort of factual evidence or even know who the photographer is then it might be easier to narrow it down. There are very very few photographs of Dublin still surviving from the 1860s.

Financefactz (talk) 16:31, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi Financefactz. Thank you for your kind remarks. Alas, I find it all too easy to make mistakes, as we all do. But the page is indeed far better than it was. I was not the original author, and haven't really got round to looking at wikipedia's individual baths unless someone else has contributed first. Thank you for taking my comments so generously.

I shall certainly leave the street wikilink in; I'm sure it was only inadvertently omitted.

Eve McAulay of the Dictionary of Irish Architects and I have been exchanging information about Turkish baths in Ireland for well over a decade or so and the attribution of Benson to the Dublin baths, instead of those at Bray, is probably a misprint, and the text of the second entry in the scan at [1]https://dia.ie/works/view/36684/building/CO.+DUBLIN%2C+DUBLIN%2C+LINCOLN+PLACE%2C+TURKISH+BATHS seems to confirm this, as Bray was built for Dargan. DIA's problem is lack of staff, so they have a large backlog.

I will leave the date of the photo as it is, since the earlier date is more a gut feeling due to its being extremely common for new baths (especially such unusual ones) to be photographed very soon after they open. However, my knowledge of photography, let alone that of Dublin, would not cover a single one of my fingernails, so I am happy to follow your view on this.

I've left your second point till the end since it is the most complicated. Unfortunately, as you will certainly know, Irish company records were destroyed in the fire so we are now probably unlikely ever to know for certain about the ownership of the baths. Unless there are other records (possibly rate books, etc) which I am not able to search for easily over here in England (where, always a Remainer, I am one of the now more than 50% who live resentful of our EU citizenship being stolen from us by a pack of liars).

However there is an ownership pattern. Barter added a Turkish bath to his already owned Hydro. He was a baths proselytiser, and so his primary aim was to set up, or assist in setting up, baths where there were none. He only owned them if he could not get others to help finance them—not surprising as the bath was so new. The baths known to be owned by him (and on his death, passed on to his son) were at nearby Cork (Grenville Place), Cork (Maylor Street, for the poor), Belfast, and Dublin (Upper Sackville Street). Limerick (Charles Street) was a partnership with a friend. Waterford he owned for its first year only till a company was set up. Dublin (Lincoln Place), London, and Killarney were all built by companies which already existed, or were specially set up. The ownership of the Sligo baths is complicated and unconfirmed.

So far as Lincoln Place is concerned, a company was set up to build and own the baths. When Barter left, there is no record of any sale between him and the company, and years after he left, it was the company liquidator that sold the baths to Miller and Jury. So I will leave my suggested amendment—which, in any case, does not mention actual ownership in so many words.

Thank you again for your interest in the baths and for the obvious improvement to the article which has resulted from your work on it. And it was good for me to be encouraged to look again at the problem of Barter's baths ownership. Ishpoloni (talk) 00:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

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Charles Brooking's map of Dublin (1728)

I am very confused by what you're trying to do with the article, is it suppose to be a list article? An article about a map or a biography? At the moment the article seems all over the place. And it appears there doesn't seem to be an article for Charles Brooking Sr. Maybe you can explain your intentions, cheers. Govvy (talk) 10:38, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Govvy:, the article is about Charles Brooking's map of Dublin of 1728. It also contains a list of vignettes which are arguably more important than the map itself. Not much is known about Charles Brooking as it was circa 300 years ago that it was made. This differs from someone like James Malton who was very similar but made his illustrations about 60 years later or even Joseph Tudor from about 30 years later. There are hundreds of comparable examples of similar illustrators and maps throughout Wikipedia. It is admittedly a short page but there is little information to go off in spite of its notability. Someone more comparable maybe is John Speed, but there is a lot of information on him and he was moreso a dedicated cartographer than an artist and cartographer.

May I suggest that I would have thought that it would be best to move the article to Charles Brooking (born 1677), as it seems more built towards a biography. Then after the above title redirected there. I feel it needs a rewrite to the lead, then build from there. Then the article would need to link up with his son of the same name better. Regards Govvy (talk) 12:26, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't think we really have enough information to start a page on Charles Brooking senior. It would be a limited number of sentences and his map is better known than he is. Financefactz (talk) 14:45, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Ways to improve Hugh Darley

Hello, Financefactz,

Thank you for creating Hugh Darley.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

In the way the article is currently written, I do not see how the subject reaches WP:NBIO.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Mason7512}}. Remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

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Mason7512 (talk) 21:47, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi Financefactz. Thank you for your work on Aideen's Grave. Another editor, Bastun, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

The article would benefit from being added to appropriate Wikiprojects, such as WP Ireland.

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Bastun}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 15:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC)