User talk:Edwin of Northumbria

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New message from Whpq

Hello, Edwin of Northumbria. You have new messages at Whpq's talk page.
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Whpq (talk) 12:52, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Edwin of Northumbria

Thank you for creating Lacock Halt railway station.

User:WikiAviator, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Expansion and splitting it into multiple section is recommended. Sources needed.

To reply, leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|WikiAviator}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~ .

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WikiAviator (talk) 02:28, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Woodhall Spa

Hi,

Your recent edit on this page resulted in a sentence fragment, which I hope you can easily fix. One of the paragraphs in the Footpaths and Walking sections concludes with, "Along the route can be found information displays of the" Can you complete the sentence? Thanks.

Ira

Ira Leviton (talk) 19:36, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

• Hi Ira and thanks for you note – unfortunately you've addressed it to the wrong person, as the editor concerned appears to be Abc26324 (talk) !!

{Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 20:43, 16 April 2020 (UTC)}

Oops! My mistake. I will contact him. And keep up your good work.

Ira

Ira Leviton (talk)

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Proposed deletion of Lacock Halt railway station

The article Lacock Halt railway station has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Poorly written article

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Iacopo Haanrath (talk) 15:59, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to blank out or remove portions of page content, templates, or other materials from Wikipedia without adequate explanation, as you did at Lacock Halt railway, you may be blocked from editing. Iacopo Haanrath (talk) 19:07, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

I think it is you who are guilty of attempted vandalism – try contributing material yourself instead of unfairly criticising other people!! Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 23:44, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

I note that you made no attempt to explain why you thought the page was poorly written or to improve it yourself. I was perfectly within my rights to remove your notice as I regarded it as entirely malicious (which I did actually state as my reason for making the edit at the time). I find it rather hypocritical to speak of "disruptive editing" when you had flagged an entire page for deletion. Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 23:49, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

What planet are you living on if you think that article is well-written?!? Iacopo Haanrath (talk) 15:01, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

The article may not be perfect in your eyes, but the style reflects of a lot of books that I read on the subject. Even if there are ways it can be improved (as is typically the case with any piece of writing), I certainly do not consider it so bad that the entire page should have been marked for deletion. Moreover, the content is accurate and well-researched, which is more than can be said for the vast majority of Wikipedia pages I encounter. For whatever reason, I believe you are letting your personal preferences cloud your judgement. Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 15:49, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

P.S. If you can explain exactly why you think the article is poorly written (which in my opinion you should have done at the outset), then I may be able to answer your question. As things stand at present you have made no attempt to offer any kind of constructive criticism and are simply wasting my time. Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 16:01, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

You could start by fixing some of the grammar, and perhaps making it not read like a 5 year old wrote it. I suppose I could have said that "at the outset", then again I didn't want to appear "rude"... too late now. Iacopo Haanrath (talk) 21:25, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Like a 5 year old? That's just ridiculous. This conversation is over. Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 23:09, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

P.S. I have just got someone to read the article – their opinion is the you are way off the mark and deliberately causing trouble. As I said in my edit history note, this is trollism pure and simple. Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 23:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

"I have just got someone to read the article" - and who was that, your mother?!? It's clear from reading that article that you know NOTHING about trains, and are not fit to be writing articles that others will read and be misled by. e.g.:

"the platforms at Lacock were constructed of ballast held back by old railway sleepers at the platform edge, being about 100 feet (30 m) in length" - anyone oblivious reading that would think the sleepers themselves are 30m in length which is nonsense as it clearly should apply to the platform length. The whole damn thing needs re-writing from scratch. Jeez! Iacopo Haanrath (talk) 00:08, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Some more examples:

"Local opinion appears to have shifted fairly rapidly thereafter" - where is the evidence for this?!?

"Most steam-operated services on the line were taken over by diesel multiple units in 1958 " - at the very least, any enthusiast will need to know whether we're talking BR 1st generation or legacy GWR railcars. How on Earth is a casual reader supposed to know this?!?

There's also nothing in the article to hint at the structural deficincies of the Beeching survey...

honestly, reading this shoddy excuse for an article is making my blood boil. This is not Thomas the Tank Engine. THIS IS WIKIPEDIA!!!! Iacopo Haanrath (talk) 00:20, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

The person who read the article is actually a university lecturer in English. My mother is dead.

There is a difference between the phrase "diesel multiple unit" and "rail-motor", which I believe is sufficient to indicate they do not refer to the same thing – and the article states that the rail-motors had been previously withdrawn. Anyone wishing to know more can follow the internal links.

I would be very surprised if anyone who has ever seen a railway sleeper would think that the GWR had somehow managed to conjure up ones which were 30 metres in length. Moreover, it is clear that the phrase refers to the platforms rather than the sleepers, otherwise the "with small rudimentary shelters..." wouldn't make sense. One has to credit readers with a basic level of intellence and competency in the English language, unless writing something aimed at 5-year olds!! I see no reason to "dumb down" the article to the extent that it becomes the literary equivalent of a camel (a.k.a. horse designed by a committee), which is an issue with far too many Wikipedia pages.

In due course I will be a note regarding the Beeching survey and further information concerning usage of the line.

Please go and let your blood boil somewhere else – or play with your Thomas the Tank Engine train set, which may help you calm down.

I will not be responding to any more of your comments. Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 00:40, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

P.S. Whatever the general inadequacies of the Beeching surveys, evidence from newspaper reports suggests that in this particular instance the results were a fairly accurate reflection of passenger usage. The survey referred to is mentioned, but not criticized by Maggs – and moreover, was conducted after the (first) Beeching Report was published!! As I see it, the issue is not the validity of the figures, but rather whether the service was ever frequent enough to attract sufficient traffic for it to make a profit (as locals contended). Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 01:09, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Marra Wonga has been accepted

Marra Wonga, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 23:44, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Carmichael numbers

You added useful information to Carmichael numbers (thanks) but you are combining three (or four) distinct ideas (K₁, infinitude, counterexamples to converse of Fermat's little theorem, and primality testing [yes, the latter two are closely related but not the same]) into one huge paragraph. Keep it simple, separate different ideas, so readers can easily see every idea. I give this advice as an experienced math writer, not to be mean. Zaslav (talk) 21:34, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

What I did was quite deliberate, as personally I prefer not to read Wikipedia articles which, in their grammatical structure, create the impression that they were copied verbatim from a primary school essay. For example, you have now changed part of what I wrote to:

"They form the subset K₁ of the Knödel numbers. They are infinite in number.",

when (IMHO) it wouldn't have been any less clear to say:

"They form the subset K₁ of the Knödel numbers, and are infinite in number."

but avoids the awkward staccato rhythm.

Similarly, I see nothing wrong in writing

"They constitute the comparatively rare instances where the strict converse of Fermat's Little Theorem does not hold, thus precluding its use as an absolute test of primality."

Note that his in no way implies that the only test of primality is based on Fermat's Little Theroem, and is simply a concise statement of fact.

There was certainly no element of "being fancy for the sake of being fancy" as you suggest in the revision history – indeed as I used to teach maths to high school students, I'm very much a believer in keeping things as simple as possible!! However, it is probably reasonable to assume that anyone looking up the article on Carmichael numbers has a reasonable degree of mathematical literacy, therefore I stand by what I wrote. A fair comprise, taking your opinion into account, would have been to split my original sentence into two sentences, and no more. My preference, in this case, would be to write

"Whist infinite in number, they constitute the comparatively rare instances where the strict converse of Fermat's Little Theorem does not hold, thus precluding its use as an absolute test of primality. Carmichael numbers are a subset of the Fermat pseudoprimes, and also form the subset K₁ of the Knödel numbers." Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 02:31, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much for explaining your reasoning. I teach people to write math papers so the ideas are clear, so I think I can speak to the writing of this article, which would be of interest mainly but not exclusively to mathematicians.

First, the fact that Carmichael numbers are the K_1 numbers is unrelated to the fact that they contradict the converse (why "strict"?) of FLT. The fact that they are infinite in number is entirely different from their being K_1 numbers. That is, there are three unrelated facts. I suggest the infinitude should be earlier, as it is related to the existence and congruences. The Knodel number connection is a minor detail that should be a separate paragraph at the end. You are correct to criticise my paragraphing; I should have made separate paragraphs. I agree with the principle of no jerky sentences, but in this case the solution is separate paragraphs for separate topics.

The fact that Carmichael numbers partially invalidate primality testing using FLT is now the biggest reason for being interested, and is closely related to but different from the fact that they prevent a converse of FLT, which was no doubt the original reason. Thus, these two aspects should be in the same paragraph but not merged together. I often see that ideas are not brought out clearly when they are blended too closely.

I will be happy to continue this discussion and I await your opinion. It's good to talk with someone who cares about exposition.

P.S. I made minor edits per above so we can see what I'm thinking of. Zaslav (talk) 03:39, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Edwin of Northumbria. Thank you for your work on Bill Crump (musician). User:SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 13:35, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

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Nomination of RailReview for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article RailReview is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/RailReview until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

Onel5969 ^{TT me} 22:50, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

January 2023

Welcome to Wikipedia. Please do not remove Articles for deletion notices from articles, or remove other people's comments in Articles for deletion debates, as you did with RailReview. Otherwise, it may be difficult to create consensus. If you oppose the deletion of an article, please comment at the respective page instead. Thank you.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 23:04, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Please do not remove Articles for deletion notices from articles or remove other people's comments in Articles for deletion pages, as you did with RailReview. Doing so won't stop the discussion from taking place. You are, however, welcome to comment about the proposed deletion on the appropriate page. Thank you. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 23:08, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

I am happy to comply with this where I believe the person who has marked the page for deletion (in this case user:Onel5969) is not acting maliciously.

(Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 23:08, 18 January 2023 (UTC))

Please stop. If you continue to remove Articles for deletion notices or comments from articles and Articles for deletion pages, as you did at RailReview, you may be blocked from editing. I would stop this. You are going to get blocked if you continue. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 23:14, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you remove or change other editors' legitimate talk page comments, as you did at Talk:RailReview. This edit demonstrates you still don't understand that removing others' edits during discussion is regarded as extremely bad behavior. An editor is not to remove AfD tags, cautions about personal attacks, or comments by others. An editor shouldn't normally refactor discussion without calling attention to the change. Removing your own comments (or striking them through) is usually ok. A user is welcome to utilize and edit their own talk page in anyway they desire, but an article and its talk page (under CC BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL) belong to the pedia and therefore, the reader. Stop removing material or I will block you. BusterD (talk) 10:21, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of your warning here when I re-removed the offending comment and Cullen's reply at Talk:RailReview. In this particular case, I felt it more important to get the offending text off the page, rather than worry about strikeout or redacting. Edwin, while BusterD is right (and, based on Buster's wording, it sounds like you've done this before?) I felt like this was a special case where Cullen wouldn't mind. In general, BusterD's comment reflects policy, and you should follow it. I guess my main concern, which is much more widespread than this case, is that when someone shows up at ANI and becomes visible, while they're in the middle of a stressful situation (of their making or someone else's making), they start getting flooded with "please sign your posts", "please indent your posts properly", or "you have to use strikeout, not removal". I feel like the time to teach them these issues is when they aren't stressed. This concern is less valid if the comment removal has happened before. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:51, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

I endorse everything Floquenbeam has said above. Edwin of Northumbria, our primary concern is always protecting the many people associated with the project, including you and I. Sometimes those people are volunteers like us; sometimes the people are living folks who happen to become the subject of Wikipedia articles. Another major concern of ours is transparency. One of the reasons we don't merely remove notices or comments is that we want later editors to see our process as it evolved (and attribute appropriately). I do appreciate your removing this prior negative comment, and your choice so moved me to give such a detailed warning (but not block you). Wikipedia needs editors who can admit to error and self-correct; especially we value human beings who demonstrate willingness and self-awareness. Please consider every editor in this thread your ally. When you need help, ask. BusterD (talk) 20:27, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

There was no Ill intent or lack of understanding involved. It's simply that I've now been up for nigh on 36 hours and can barely see what I'm doing given that my mobile only has a 2½ X 5½" screen. (Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 11:08, 19 January 2023 (UTC))

Thanks for letting us know. Might be a good idea for you to step back from the keyboard for a day or so. Perhaps consider your pending response at the AfD (strongly encourage you to get some rest before responding there). Feel better. BusterD (talk) 11:24, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, well I was supposed to be going on holiday for 10 days Thanks for your understanding. The other is due I have is that my phone frequently locks up with Wikipedia fir some reason, then the phone does things I didn't vtell it to. It's why I tend to make small incremental changes to articles. (Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 11:40, 19 January 2023 (UTC))

It is wise to communicate with your fellows. We appreciate it. Nobody here wants to push around an editor who self-identifies as being not well-rested at the time. Do look further for sources before making your "keep" assertion at the AfD (if you choose to so assert). The subject matter seems a bit off the beaten path, and a comparatively new organ. For some subjects it sometimes takes more time to draw sufficient coverage for inclusion, and you'll need to demonstrate GNG conclusively now to get AfDers to reverse their previously-made assertions. An uphill battle. BusterD (talk) 18:53, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Just wish to +1 BusterD above. It can be difficult, but do try to assume good faith. Most of use here are attempting to do the right thing, even when it seems heavy-handed, like having an article deleted. The site is better off in the end for having a civil but adversarial process. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 18:55, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Floquenbeam (talk). Thanks for your measured and thoughtful comments. In answer to your question (if only a rhetorical one), I did what I thought was correct at the time, and wish to emphasize that I'd never removed comments from an article talk page before. Given that I'd been up at that point for well over 30 hours and could barely read my phone screen anymore, I may well have missed a shortcut in the text. However, to the best of my knowledge, I wasn't made aware that any special procedure was involved.

As you say, the situation I found myself in was a very stressful one, and unfortunately not all people seem to have been astute enough to realise this. In part, however, the fault lies with the procedures. If my experience is anything to go by, they have the potential to make a stressful situation infinitely worse, and indeed there is an argument to be made that if tested under UK law they would be found wanting.

If you have the time, please read a commentary I've just added to my user page, as it touches on some of the issues involved.

(Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 19:04, 2 February 2023 (UTC))

Your post at WP:ANI

...was not set off as its own topic, as I believe you intended, making it rather confusing. Might be worth doing so with a title you deem appropriate. I was beaten to the punch! Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 03:17, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, thanks Dumuzid, I'd gathered that, but over half the text it's taken me hours to write simply disappeared. Is there any way of retrieving it? (Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 03:20, 19 January 2023 (UTC))

In an edit box, you mean? If so, I am afraid that's well beyond my ken, but as far as I know, there is no way. I have done that more times than I can count. Dumuzid (talk) 03:22, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Oh, it's OK thanks Dumuzid, my own backup didn't appear to have worked at first, but now I've recovered the text so can fix the problem. Sorry! (Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 03:25, 19 January 2023 (UTC))

Your draft article, Draft:Percy William Pilcher

Hello, Edwin of Northumbria. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Percy William Pilcher".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. ✗plicit 00:03, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

If it has been archived, then will it be kept indefinitely?

I have not had time to develop the draft further over the past 6 months but may want to in future. However, I would be grateful if you could restore it briefly so I can copy the information it contains – it is the only record I have of the some of the research I'd undertaken and I would like to follow up on a few leads.

If Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 01:05, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Hey there. If you'd like to retrieve it, please file a request at WP:REFUND. Also templated messages like this are not usually watched by the person placing them, so if you want Explicit or others to respond, you probably need to WP:PING them. Hope this helps. Happy editing. –Novem Linguae (talk) 01:20, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes thanks, that's very useful information. Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 01:32, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

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Re: Star Trek: First Contact

Hey. In the interests of reducing ref clutter, you really shouldn't be adding unneeded params for refs (publisher if functionally the same as the work, location data, etc.) Adding thousands of bytes of essentially redundant changes isn't particularly helpful. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 16:55, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk
I understand completely where you're coming from, but when it comes to references I believe in being both thorough and consistent. There are relatively few examples of parameters I've added that would fall into the category you describe and therefore to say these take up "thousands of bytes" is a gross exaggeration. Moreover, if someone is unfamiliar with the geography of the United States, it can be useful if the reference provides some context in listing the USPS state code of the place of publication – the article cites a number of references from local papers with which a majority of readers outside the US will probably be unfamiliar. (Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 19:11, 6 August 2023 (UTC))

See WP:INLINECLUTTER. Anyone using source editors is also going to have to wade through a ton more code to actually edit the article. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 12:58, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

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Out or Not out?

Guess it is okay to have Home Gordon too. I'll add it back. Tintin 09:35, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Home Gordon article could well be a reprint from an English newspaper. Tintin 10:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

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Please don't replace CS2 templates with CS1 templates

You've recently been replacing {{citation}} templates ("CS2") with {{cite book}}, {{cite journal}}, etc. ("CS1") on Square root of 2. This goes against WP:CITEVAR. In general these changes have no benefit and just cause pointless churn and edit history spam, and sometimes edit wars. Please don't do any more of it, on this or any other article. (The only exception is when an article uses an inconsistent mix of citation styles: Then it can be helpful to standardize on the earliest common variant used on the page.) –jacobolus (t) 18:52, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for drawing this to my attention jacobolus. As you may have noticed, this was done only as part of an ongoing attempt to improve the quality and accuracy of references on the page – not least because there was a lack of consistency in the way these were treated. However, as I haven't been changing the most dominant reference style, I can't see immediately how this contravenes WP:CITEVAR. To make it clear in the code whether one is referencing a book, journal, or magazine, is simply more precise (and can be helpful in flagging up errors). (Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 00:02, 30 October 2024 (UTC))

@Edwin of Northumbria If the page predominately uses CS2 style {{citation}} templates, it is entirely inappropriate to change them all to CS1 templates. –jacobolus (t) 01:54, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

@jacobolus Your basic premise is wrong. When I started editing the page, the number of references using CS2 and CS1 templates was approximately equal (13 v 12) so there was no clearly dominant template style. Moreover, I knew that I would be deleting one of the former, so that meant the decision was basically a toss up. Note that by references, I mean those listed in the "References" and "Notes" sections. (Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 10:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC))

Okay. If you look back in the page history it is clear that c. 2010 it was all {{citation}}, and then since then there has been a gradual accretion of CS1 style templates by miscellaneous editors who didn't follow WP:CITEVAR, and then there was never any clear cleanup effort to fix them. In this kind of case you should still keep the CS2 style, but it seems like the change here was an honest mistake on your part, rather than ignorance of policy. –jacobolus (t) 16:13, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

@jacobolus Actually, I'm not sure that it was a mistake at all. It seems to me you have chosen a previous revision that is somewhat arbitrary. As far as I can tell, on the first occasion when templates of any variety were applied to references on the page, they were CS1 not CS2. Surely, following the guidelines, that practice should be adhered to. (Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 19:33, 31 October 2024 (UTC))

They were changed to CS2 style c. 2010, and remained that way until the present. If you want to revert to the previous style from a decade and a half ago, you should start a talk page discussion rather than just doing it. –jacobolus (t) 20:25, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

@jacobolus If the guidelines don't support your point of view, then I shouldn't have to do that. Your argument that edits made since a particular point in time should be disregarded applies equally to all points in time, and the guidelines state that the initial practice should be adhered to. As I noted above, there was no predominant de facto style in use when I started editing the page, so I can see no justification for reversing the changes that I made. (Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 21:03, 31 October 2024 (UTC))

In my opinion it is abundantly clear that CS2 was the predominant style from 2010–2024, which is why I reverted to that style. You started making a bunch of miscellaneous changes, including switching to "&" before the last author and switching the JSTOR links to the URL parameter, none of which are supportable under WP:CITEVAR. As far as I can tell you aren't really otherwise doing a rewrite of the article or similar, and your edits substantially consist of stylistic twiddles to enforce your own personal preference which differs from the style which was previously established.

In general this kind of thing is frowned on: it adds a lot of edit history noise and causes pointless disputes for no particular benefit, which is why WP:CITEVAR asks that editors just skip it, or else try to establish consensus on the talk page first. If you disagree, please start a talk page discussion looking for consensus backing your changes.

@Jtir was the person who first changed plain text/wikimarkup citations to CS1 templates in 2006, and @David Eppstein was the person who switched to CS2 style in 2010. Maybe they have some opinion about the matter. –jacobolus (t) 22:38, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

We should go back to the earliest established format and make them all consistent with that. In this article, that appears to be CS1 in 2006. When I find instances of this issue I generally use {{CS1 config|mode=cs1}} or {{CS1 config|mode=cs2}} at the start of the article, to make all the templates conform to the same style, rather than converting all the individual templates (which if done properly should also involve checking the appearance of the converted templates and replacing parameters when necessary to make them correct, more effort than is worthwhile). —David Eppstein (talk) 23:56, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

@David Eppstein Thanks for your opinion. As far as I can tell from the guidelines, that would seem the best option. I'd actually replaced the parameters where necessary then checked the results, and couldn't see any obvious inconsistencies. (Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 00:14, 1 November 2024 (UTC))

@jacobolus Just name-checking you to bring the above to your attention. (Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 00:19, 1 November 2024 (UTC))

Okay, I switched mode=cs1 at the top. –jacobolus (t) 03:32, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@jacobolus Thanks for that, and for adding the Aristotle ref. My efforts to find a suitable source were being hampered by the current issues with the Internet Archive (actually the University of Adelaide eBook is still available there but for several reasons I decided it was better to look for a different source). (Edwin of Northumbria (talk) 17:28, 1 November 2024 (UTC))