User talk:Divingenthusiast2005
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[edit]Hello, Historyofdivingmuseum, and Welcome to Wikipedia!
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Hello! Historyofdivingmuseum,
you are invited to the Teahouse, a forum on Wikipedia for new editors to ask questions about editing Wikipedia, and get support from peers and experienced editors. Please join us! Liz Read! Talk! 18:35, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
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May 2022
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It also appears that your account is intended to be used for the purpose of telling the world about an organization, person or cause that you consider worthwhile. Unfortunately, many good causes are not sufficiently notable for their own Wikipedia article, and all users are discouraged from editing in any area where they have an inherent conflict of interest. You may wish to consider one of these alternative outlets. Additionally, if your contributions to Wikipedia form all or part of work for which you are, or expect to be, paid, you must disclose who is paying you to edit.
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Thank you. Orange Mike | Talk 15:11, 13 May 2022 (UTC)- Hi Mike,
- Thank you for taking the time to tell me how things work. I'll submit a username change request or make a new account. I am hoping the museum is notable enough for an article(there are admittedly much smaller Florida museums with their own articles) and plan to talk in a neutral tone and use well-cited sources as there are many newspaper and magazine articles that mention it. I was an enthusiast of the museum before working here and wish I had written the article at that time because it sounds like the process is more complicated now.
- As an aside, we have an atmospheric diving suit named "Iron Mike" here and he's more-or-less our mascot. Sadly he is yellow, not orange.
- Cheers! Historyofdivingmuseum (talk) 16:13, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- You're off to a good start, Divingenthusiast2005, as far as it goes. It's a bit rocky coming in as a COI editor trying to make an article for the organization they work for, but you seem to be approaching it with a good mindset. As for the Articles for Creation process, it's often helpful for any new editor to put their new articles through this process, regardless of whether they have a COI or not. As long as you pay attention to the core policies you should be good to go. (Not sure if you've yet been linked to the notability guideline tailored specifically for organizations, so here you go; the general notability guideline is generally helpful, but the subject-specific ones are sometimes more useful.) Best of luck! Perfect4th (talk) 16:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- You also might want to - eventually, I imagine you're overwhelmed with info at the moment - check out the WP:GLAM ("galleries, libraries, archives, and museums") project, which specializes in co-operating with people from such institutions. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:18, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for the help! I'll be sure to follow the process, and I will check out the GLAM guide the other user posted as well. This community has been very helpful getting me started.
- Cheers! Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 17:26, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Wikipedians tend to like folks who:
- A) Are up-front about their affiliations and goals.
- B) Listen to advice.
- C) Champion edumacation and the sharing of fact-like substances.
- You seem to fall into at least a few of those categories, so you've found a relatively warm welcome. Enjoy your journey! 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:59, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- I appreciate it! Looking forward to editing(even if in my down-time). I used to edit quite a lot without an account, usually on biology pages as that is my primary background.
- Best wishes to you :) Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 18:10, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- You're off to a good start, Divingenthusiast2005, as far as it goes. It's a bit rocky coming in as a COI editor trying to make an article for the organization they work for, but you seem to be approaching it with a good mindset. As for the Articles for Creation process, it's often helpful for any new editor to put their new articles through this process, regardless of whether they have a COI or not. As long as you pay attention to the core policies you should be good to go. (Not sure if you've yet been linked to the notability guideline tailored specifically for organizations, so here you go; the general notability guideline is generally helpful, but the subject-specific ones are sometimes more useful.) Best of luck! Perfect4th (talk) 16:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Rename from "Historyofdivingmuseum" to "Divingenthusiast2005"
[edit]Unblocked. Welcome back. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 16:23, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you! Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 16:39, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
An article about your museum
[edit]Hello! I may be willing/able to help, it seems to me this museum probably should have a WP-article. I know nothing about diving, but I have started some WP-articles.
Unless you want to do it yourself as a learning experience (good for learning how to edit), I could create a draft, and then move it to mainspace when it's good enough (pass WP:GNG). However, what is needed are sources. We need a few that are at the same time independent of your museum/its people, reliably published (WP:RS) and about your museum in some detail. This excludes blogs, wikis, pressreleases, your websites etc etc. Can you link the 3-5 best you can think of? National is better than local, but local is not nothing.
I found a couple of good-looking ones [1][2][3], but if we have National Geographic or The Smithsonian, even better. You can reply on this page, I'm watching it (not 24/7). Some recommended reading: Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:30, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for reaching out and for adding to that page! Most articles about us are local, however I am certain we have written sources in the Journal of Diving History(similar name, not affiliated with us, however) about us and our founders. There are a few other national magazines I know have written articles on the museum, I would have to do some digging in our library. Though they are not local, they are diving-related and as a result pretty niche.
- For online sources, how about these?
- https://www.flkeysnews.com/entertainment/attractions/article79608857.html
- https://keysweekly.com/42/25316/
- https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/history-of-diving-museum
- https://fla-keys.com/news/article/9506/
- https://keysweekly.com/42/history-of-diving-museum-celebrates-military/
- https://www.whats-at-florida-keys.com/History-Of-Diving-Museum.html
- https://floridakeysmarathon.com/2017/06/13/matt-johnston-diving-a-dream/
- Another user mentions photos being helpful resources to help solidify educational value, so I took the liberty of putting together this IMGUR album with some descriptions. Is there a way for me to upload them here? See here for notable artifacts+descriptions: https://imgur.com/a/TGmo5lm
- As for the article, I did get this started before stopping due to COI status. I am hoping the language is neutral enough;
- The History of Diving Museum is a small Florida museum which catalogs the history of diving efforts and equipment spanning 4000 years. It is located on Islamorada in the Florida Keys island chain, on the side of Overseas Highway. Opened in 2005, its exhibits are comprised of the collection of its founders, Drs. Joe and Sally Bauer, who spent over 40 years putting together the collection. The exhibits include reproductions of diving equipment from as far back as the 1500s, an assortment of hard-hat diving helmets both homemade and official, SCUBA equipment spanning the ages, and several atmospheric diving suits. A temporary exhibit rotates twice per year.
- And maybe with a notable artifacts section after? I do not think it would be a huge article, but I think lots of our artifacts would have a place in numerous diving-related ones that could then acknowledge their source as our museum.
- Thank you for reading! Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 19:45, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Also, great job on finding those articles! I realize I posted the military one you already found(sorry about that). Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 20:07, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hi. I'd say the museum is probably notable. Here a few sources I found that may be helpful when you create an article on it: The Reporter (p2), The Palm Beach Post (and another from The Post), The New York Journal News, The California Signal, and The Miami Herald. BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:21, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks so much for finding those sources! Super helpful. Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 21:23, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- I was told uploading to Imgur to showcase images would be counter to my goals if I wanted to upload them here, so I deleted that album. Can still upload artifact pictures here if that is allowed. Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 21:23, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Divingenthusiast2005 and @BeanieFan11, I think we're good on sources. I'll start a draft and work on it a little, let me get back to you on that. Your text looks ok, but of course it needs referencing, so it may change a bit per what sources say. For WP-editing in general, referencing is essential, so if you're going to do some of that (like on non-COI stuff etc) I recommend WP:TUTORIAL and perhaps WP:ADVENTURE.
- This paragraph WP:COIADVICE may be of help. Sorry, but COI-stuff on WP is hard and often counter-intuitive for COI-people. The basic WP-attitude is somewhat suspicius and hostile, but with some reason. Actually there's an article about it.
- On images (in general not just for the article) I see you uploaded one on Commons already. This is easy and accepted if those are taken by you, that's what "own work" means here, and previously unpublished anywhere. If you like to upload say pics where the museum owns the copyright, this is possible but requires some bureaucracy, info on that here. Ive never tried that myself, but people tell me it can be done. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:48, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks so much for doing that! Let me know if I can be of any help. I will start the process of uploading photos of some of our artifacts to be used on that page as well as ones about diving history.
- I was told EXIF data was preferably preserved, is there an easy way to do this? Just upload directly from my phone to here? Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 14:02, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- Afaik, as long as you upload the "original" (whatever that means here), the meta/exif is automatically included, but this is not my area of expertise, only done it once[4]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:15, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- I have to say, I see a resemblance with another article I started, Jack Hadley. You collect a lot of stuff and bam! Museum. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:20, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- That is usually how it goes with smaller museums! The Bauers as far as I've heard spent years collecting for personal purposes until it became so much they decided it was a waste to keep it private. All that collecting done before the Internet was really a thing too, can't imagine the process and how much more involved it was. Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 18:50, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Disclosure of employment
[edit]Hello. Just to clarify, are you currently employed by the History of Diving Museum? If so, then you are considered to be a paid editor and are expected to comply with Wikipedia's mandatory paid editing disclosure policy. An important part of this policy is a visible disclosure of which article(s) you are editing and who is paying you. This is typically done by using the {{paid}} template on your userpage (User:Divingenthusiast2005). Please be aware that you do not have to be paid specifically to write about your employer; merely being an employee of the organization you are writing about is enough for this policy to apply. Thank you. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 21:33, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for the heads up. The note has been added! Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 00:01, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Welcome Divingenthusiast2005!
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Sincerely, Sm8900 (talk) 21:45, 13 May 2022 (UTC) (Leave me a message)
Sm8900 (talk) 21:45, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Copyright on images
[edit]Now I've had a cursory look at your Talk items, and the homepage of the organisation you are connected with; File:History of Diving Museum.png appears to me to be copied from the homepage lead image - this same image comes under the footer annotation: "Copyright © 2022 History Of Diving Museum | Powered by applied fusion".
If I'm right, this means the image you uploaded (without EXIF info being a dead giveaway) was copied, ie., not from the original capture and it has been published previously with ownership advice very clearly stated. This will need to be deleted from Wikimedia Commons, otherwise you could arrange for the copyright notice to be amended (the webmaster's area of expertise, perhaps).
Wikipedia (and it's media repository, Wikimedia Commons) can only host free images, and they must be available for others to re-use, free of charge, including for commercial purposes. These can also be modified, as an integral part of the licence release.
If you look at File:Vicar water and rufford scenes 015.jpg you'll see the exif info. I took this on a playing-card size camera in 2008, uploading it in 2015.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 17:53, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- I'd be happy to delete and reupload a new picture that is free for use. They're easy to take since I'm at the museum. I don't see an option to delete the image, is there a way for me to do this? Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 18:48, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- No - only an administrator can delete images. I can nominate it, though, for what is known as 'speedy' deletion. Before taking masses of pics, please review WP:IMAGERELEVANCE - being hypothetical here - addition of images to a Wikipedia article should aid a reader's understanding of the article. An article is not an extension of a commercial website - many make the mistake of {{toomanyimages}} within a gallery. Your images will be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, for others to use. Thanks. Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:06, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Done--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:20, 14 May 2022 (UTC)- Thank you for the info and the deletion. I am in the process of uploading new ones. I will do my best to keep them at a minimum, though I do believe we have several artifacts that would be of benefit to the larger community, not just our own page. For example we have a replica of the 1832 design of the Deane brothers diving helmet(first one ever made), while the history of diving Wikipedia page has only a diagram of this design. Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 20:34, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- I liked the Robby the Robot" suit!--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:56, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- Mike does look like that! I wouldn't be surprised if he inspired some pop culture stuff. Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 23:03, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- I've now added one of your images at Atmospheric diving suit#History if you'd like to view. I've linked to the new museum article and think this is a good development. Thanks.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:04, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- That looks fantastic! I'll upload more replicas and artifacts we have this week that could be used in further articles. Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 20:11, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- I've now added one of your images at Atmospheric diving suit#History if you'd like to view. I've linked to the new museum article and think this is a good development. Thanks.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:04, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- Mike does look like that! I wouldn't be surprised if he inspired some pop culture stuff. Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 23:03, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- I liked the Robby the Robot" suit!--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:56, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- No - only an administrator can delete images. I can nominate it, though, for what is known as 'speedy' deletion. Before taking masses of pics, please review WP:IMAGERELEVANCE - being hypothetical here - addition of images to a Wikipedia article should aid a reader's understanding of the article. An article is not an extension of a commercial website - many make the mistake of {{toomanyimages}} within a gallery. Your images will be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, for others to use. Thanks. Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:06, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
![[4]](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Johnnie_Walker_-_White_Walker.jpg){kind=link}
CoI editing
[edit]Just a few words to confirm that you should not attempt to directly-edit any article that you have a conflict with. Instead, suggestions should be made at the Talk page with supporting references. I have not had the chance to read all the posts and changes, but this is just in case you've concluded that a CoI declaration at your user page gives you permission to carry out editing without restriction. Thanks.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 22:51, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- I will leave our page to the experts! :) Would it be acceptable to make edits to pages not my own? As in, diving history, Atmospheric diving suits, etc. that I can provide photos of artifacts of? Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 23:06, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- Sure, you know what to look for. Just make the captions concise without mentioning the museum in the article space - the readers can click-through for further details. Normally, there's no end punctuation (period) within captions, but can contain commas. This is covered at WP:CAPFRAG. Thanks.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 23:23, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- Divingenthusiast2005, the only page on Wikipedia that can with any accuracy be described as one's own is one's user page. Not even one's talk page, though there is a bit of scope for exercising personal preference on one's talk page. Main space belongs to no-one and everyone, but is subject to policy, consensus of the editing community, and terms of use. It is simple in concept, but can be complicated in detail. One gets used to it after a while. With that out of the way, making edits to improve articles is a fundamental reason for Wikipedia's existence. When you have access to resources that are not easily available to others, or specialised knowledge appropriate to an encyclopedia, you are welcome and encouraged to use them to improve the encyclopedia. Problems generally arise when people are not trying to improve the encyclopedia, or do not agree about what is improvement. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 15:05, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for the response Peter. I did not mean to claim the page as "ours", as it is community-created and publicly owned, merely that it is about us and our organization. I will be more mindful of my wording in the future. Excited to make the resources we have here more widely available! Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 20:09, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Rocknrollmancer, noting that I pointed Divingenthusiast2005 to WP:COIADVICE, and IMO their edit at History of Diving Museum was ok per that. The revert was also ok, but the first edit was still ok. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:22, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
Hi and welcome
[edit]Hi Divingenthusiast2005, Nice to see someone new here who may have access to interesting diving equipment which can be photographed and uploaded to commons. I am currently the most active editor on topics in Wikipedia:WikiProject Underwater diving, mostly on the technical side. Please feel welcome to contact me directly on my talk page or by pinging from any relevant discussion. You are also invited to join the project, or at least occasionally keep tabs on what is going on, we are somewhat informal and relaxed.
If you upload images on commons, please try to categorise them so they can be found and used. If you need help, ping me. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 08:49, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
I noticed some large bookshelves in one of the photos on the museum's website. Do they have a large collection of books on diving? Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 14:34, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- I saw in some source that yes, they do. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:24, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- Nice to meet you and I'm happy to contribute! Yes, that would be our research library. It does have a lot of rare books about diving history in multiple languages, books on shipwrecks, etc. My favorite in the collection is A Pictorial History of Diving. It's an amazing resource and very comprehensive. The third chapter, about hard-hat diving, was written by our founders. If you have any questions about specific topics please let me know, I can go there physically and look for resources. Cheers! Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 20:14, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
Your thread has been archived
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Hi Divingenthusiast2005! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, You can still read the archived discussion. If you have follow-up questions, please .
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