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Archive 1

Talkback

Hello, Chedzilla. You have new messages at Neutralhomer's talk page.
Message added 05:54, 28 May 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:54, 28 May 2012 (UTC) 05:54, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Chedzilla! Thanks for your advice, it's all a bit confusing to me right now (not even sure if I'm replying to you correctly!), but hopefully I'll get the hang of it soon! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cassbag16 (talk • contribs) 06:52, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Re: hey

Thanks for your message. I was sitting here watching you work away, and scratching my head, thinking "what is this guy up to?" ;) You currently have two references listed and one still inline... they should all probably be one way or the other. There is however a chance that someone might consider your efforts an unnecessary change and revert to an earlier version. From what I understand, neither ref-style is any more correct than the other. Oh well... we both got a laugh out of it. ;) Have fun, and happy editing! :)  -- WikHead (talk) 12:38, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I work pretty extensively with reference formatting and frequently see a variety of different ref-style preferences in use. From my own observations though, I'd say that placing the entire citation inline is by far the most common way... but of course not the only way. When I apply ref fixes, I always work with whatever's there, without changing the existing style, even if it alternates. I guess my personal preference would probably be inline, but fully agree with you that list-style helps keep the source-code much tidier. :)  -- WikHead (talk) 13:17, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I had friends into NASCAR back in the late 90s who I used to watch races with, but never really followed it on my own. I indeed have an interest, but probably not enough knowledge on the topic to feel comfortable writing about it.  -- WikHead (talk) 13:25, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Pesky p'd off ...

Hey 'zilla; the editor upon whose page you dropped a note (you know the one) has been a problem before. And, from what I can gather, pretty consistently. You know how patient I am, but it was pretty obvious that there was edit-stalking going on in the past, and the editor brought their battle over to my talk page and just couldn't take a hint, no matter how I tried handling it. I had to ask them to stay off my talk (and that's a really rare occurrence – only two editors in over 17K edits have had that honour.) I'm personally inclined to think it may be time for a topic ban for this one, for anything horse-related, broadly construed, as the editor seems unable to shake off grudges and it's getting beyond a joke. Pesky (talk) 15:58, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

<huggles Pesky> .. I have to say that I agree 100%. It was actually seeing how he was treating you, Montanabw, and Dana (although I don't know her nearly as well); as well as the destructive disruption on many of the horse related articles which compelled me to have a word. Hard to imagine anyone actually getting away with that type of abusive and disruptive behavior for so long - long enough that you actually had to ask him to leave. Wish I would have caught on to it earlier. You know me too - it's very VERY seldom I feel we should be refusing people access to our project - but then again, we're not here to babysit or provide WP:THERAPY either.
Having a quick look back at the AN/I thread - it's likely grown too stale right now for a passing admin. to toss in a WP:NPA or behavioral block due to the "punitive" aspects it might entail. Although I am a bit surprised nobody caught it at the time. I guess it's just a luck of the draw thing when you can find the blocking admins. around. Daniel Case may be looking at the username issue - but we'll see. If nothing else though - Br'er Rabbit, RexxS, PS, and others have now documented their behavior - as well as bring it out in the open for further scrutiny. I suspect that a few more adminy eyes may provide a little less rope for such continued behavior. I'll try to do better at keeping an eye open as well. While I imagine the little "tantrum" was some sort of ploy in hopes of mounting a WP:INVOLVED defense, I have 0 tolerance for a schoolyard bully. I'm content to leave my adminy bits collect dust - but Chedzilla WILL pull little User:Ched Davis out of box if needed.
On a personal note (and why I wasn't more active in the AN/I thread) - aside from being hammered with work - I got to spend some time with my grandson yesterday!! Woo Hoo!! Great little guy - but boy that little fella sure can wear me out. (he's 5). Great seeing my daughter too - wish my (8) granddaughter coulda been along too .. she is soooooo mellow. Anyway - another busy day here IRL. Don't ya hate when real life interferes with wiki-time? Either way - you have a wonderful day sweet girl .. and good luck with the horses both IRL and on wiki. Chedzilla (talk) 11:46, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Hehe! I'm glad you had such fun with your grandson. It's so unfair, though, that kids seem to have limitless amounts of energy while adults have the reverse ... it should be the other way around! On the other note, maybe the ultimate WikiNon-accolade could be a userbox WOBP (Written Off By Pesky) ... wouldn't get awarded often! Montanabw has had stick at AN/I before, purely from having given other editors patience and leeway for far too long, and by the time she's finally had enough of them, they make it look as though she's the one in the wrong. When she gets snitty, one has to look back over months and months of interactions to see what happened, and in my experience it's always been the other editor responsible for it all and two steps (at least) ahead of her all down the line. I warned SAW back in March that they were heading towards RfC/U or AN/I if they didn't change, but it clearly didn't sink in. Y'know how you can get "vibes" off people? Well ... it's just the wrong vibes. You know how non-judgmental I usually am, but this one has a particular kind of gleeful nastiness. And then people get all up in arms about people like KW and MF, who are the exact opposite. Pesky (talk) 13:50, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I had to warn him off my talk page as well (although not in a heavy way, I guess) when he started trying to drag me in through the tack angle. Intothatdarkness (talk) 14:55, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Hi ITD - pleasure to meet you - wow .. that's some discussion on your talk. Amazing that he's still not blocked now that I'm seeing more and more. I'm pressed for time right now - but will follow up with you both when I have a bit more of that ever valuable time. Cheers. Chedzilla (talk) 16:03, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
No worries. Enjoy the grandkids! And with this person, and one or two others I've seen circling around, they seem to get quite a bit of mileage out of AGF and what I consider provoking behavior...provoke a skilled user and then run and file on them so that their behavior is never up for question. And I should just add that I've been impressed with both your demeanor and patience with this snakepit. I'm one of those relatively new and not especially valuable/prolific editors who has periodic conflict between wanting to improve articles and getting tired of some of the stuff that goes on around them. But you are one of the reasonable, bright spots. Intothatdarkness (talk) 16:16, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I had a goat like that, once. Made up into lovely Flossieburgers, Flossieges, Flosserole ... and Chedzilla is bright-spot-like as a supernova Pesky (talk) 21:47, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

yes please

I'm lazy, I'm messy and I'll take all the help I can get :)

Basically the colouring book is finished, and people might add to it as it is, I figure my work is kind of done already except to link it up in other places. I figure it needs cross linking at least to the cases mentioned in see also, and that should finish completely any need for my involvement. I haven't even looked at your filled in references, and I like them already. Serious, I do, it's like that :) I know you have done a brilliant job. Penyulap ☏ 18:59, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Ooooh, I'm glad you two have found each other! :D Pesky (talk) 21:52, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

hey guys ...

I'm sorry - I am so way behind on replying here - please bear with me ... I promise I'll get caught up ASAP. Chedzilla (talk) 22:25, 1 June 2012 (UTC)


Haha, little Ched Davis got unpacked!

Hehe, Chedzilla unpacked the little Ched with his tools! Take advice of experienced Zilla, steal admin tools instead, more satisfying! Can block all sorts of people, life get interesting, much dramah! [1] bishzilla ROARR!! 12:49, 2 June 2012 (UTC).

Chedzilla with tools would be scary thing. Would cause much dramah. See all WP:ABF here. Arbs supposed to set example .. instead they count edits. Chedzilla (talk) 12:58, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Example? We don't need no stinkin' example... :-) Intothatdarkness (talk) 13:52, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for !voting

at my successful RFA
Thank you, Chedzilla, for !voting at my successful RFA; I am humbled that you put your trust in me. I grant you this flower, which, if tended to properly, will grow to be the fruit of Wikipedia's labours. No dramah, no no dramah. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Chedzilla. You have new messages at TheGeneralUser's talk page.
Message added 22:29, 6 June 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

TheGeneralUser (talk) 22:29, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

CONGRATS!

You're the second user page that this newborn puppy has peed on! Feel warm? WOOF ;) — Puppy of Dog The Teddy Bear • WOOF! • 18:35, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

awww man ... I just returned the rug scrubber to the rental place too. Bad puppy! NO PEE. Go chase a kitty instead. — Ched :  ?  23:20, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Uh...zillla...

The link above seems to lead to another user's talk archive. Wasn't sure if you'd noticed that or if it was intentional. The one in the archive box works fine, though. Intothatdarkness (talk) 20:59, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Dag-nabit. I shoulda just asked User:28bytes to do it for me I guess ... knew he set one up so I just copied and pasted. Thanks for noticing that ... will try to fix with this edit .. bear with me. (Only way I learn is if I do it myself). Chedzilla (talk) 21:33, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
That actually left the non-working part there and got rid of the part that worked. Unless I'm replying too soon...one never knows. Intothatdarkness (talk) 21:41, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
(edit conflict) mrlqu;aj;nf;ng;fng;oshg .... this ;j;h;n;lkm;l thing is a ;jn;ojnpihoknnjkn.... ARRRGGGGHHHHH .... don't have time to hash it out now ... archive from the bot is at: User talk:Chedzilla/Archive 1 ... will figure it out when I get back.
Thanks Intothatdarkness... I do appreciate that .. probably would have been forever before I noticed it on my own. I just removed the whole thing for now. I'll figure it out somewhere along the line ... think there's documentation to, and when all else fails: Ched will read the directions. ... lol. Hey - if all else fails I'll ask 28bytes or Huntster how to fix it. Chedzilla (talk) 21:46, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
It's odd...because it looks ok in the edit screen, but when you hover on it the link goes somewhere other than what the code indicates. Strange. Intothatdarkness (talk) 21:47, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I'm using another archiver as the one you tried as first simply doesn't seem to be working correctly. We'll see if this one does well. — Huntster (t @ c) 10:11, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much buddy!! Greatly appreciated. :) Chedzilla (talk) 17:37, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Ummm.. What was that?

The behaviour from GabeMc has gone on too long for a wimp out action like you made here. Yes there are a few editors involved and the behaviour has been disgusting but one of the reasons this has continued for so many years is the "bulletproof" attitudes of a few editors involved. This is ridiculous for WP. We need, and they all admit it, some administrative leadership. WP policies state to take this type of behaviour to ANI and that is what I did, with great regret. I am beginning to think this whole thing is a joke. Editors are out of control, even onthe ANI page, while others ban people for asking a question or because they don't like them disagreeing with them. Oh, I know its true and could give you many examples of those action except for many of them are removed by admin people complete with the history diffs. The Internet is full of these reports with screen shots. Until somethng is done and some asses kicked the hyenas will continue. Trouble is, even the offenders want this action. Of course "it would never be me". In short, this behaviour has existed too long and people that are in charge have wimped out since about 2006, from I can see. This is *NOT* about the the/The Beatles issue but about the behaviour in the arguments. Don't let the offenders confuse you with their usual confusion techniques. Thanks for any help you can muster in this matter. 99.251.125.65 (talk) 15:52, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

First, thank you for taking the time to drop by. Second, my participation in the project right now needs to go from minimal to nil due to both real life health related issues, as well as a growing frustration with Wikipedia in general. I think that Wikipedia is a fantastic concept, and I think that the majority of editors here are kind and good people; but I do see two major problems which I have no idea how to address:
  1. Some editors become far too focused on a particular issue, be it a dash vs. a hyphen, or whether to capitalize a particular word, that they're missing the big picture. Let me ask this: If an alien came to Earth and pulled up Wikipedia to learn about the free knowledge we say we're offering; do you really think that the difference between "the Beatles wrote xyz" and The Beatles wrote xyz" is going to make one iota of a difference in the understanding of the prose they read?
  2. As you allude to in your post - there's a lack of a firm yet compassionate guiding hand at the helm here. That is to say that "administrator" is not a consistent concept on this project. There's likely several reasons for this: aside from the obvious "I haz powerz" admins that get some sort of perverse pleasure from being able to click on that block button, there's also a very real tendency in the concept that Orwell stated. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. There's often a very fine line a good administrator must walk when it comes time to actually have to pull the trigger. You have to research the history, and you have to be objective. That takes a lot of time away from editing to do that properly.
Now, having said all that - I'll also say that I've logged out of my User:Ched Davis account and its 1000+ page watchlist, and I don't expect to be logging back into that for quite some time. I tend to get 10 minutes here, and 15 minutes there to put any effort into Wikipedia lately, which makes it very difficult to get any meaningful content written. So if and when I do get the chance and the gumption to drop by - it's likely to go un-noticed TBH. I'd also note that there are parts of the world that are experiencing a difficult time. Example: See Summer 2012 North American heat wave for details. So I think it likely if not probable that this is feeding some of the short tempers and disruption. When I was a yonker, my folks told me "If you wrestle with a pig - then you're gonna get dirty too". No - I'm not calling /ANY/ editor a "pig" with that comment, it's a concept. In general, if "the Beatles" has been established via a RfC as proper on the large scale - then it should hold consistent across the entire project. Meaning an article on a particular song should put it that way as well. Other than that, I don't have much more to say other than to wish you the best. Cheers Chedzilla (talk) 17:33, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Try to enjoy your time away! Intothatdarkness 18:13, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
The trouble, as I attempted to state was that a process was halted that needed to play out. The issue ws not related to any article or concept but behaviour and he did it again in ANI and you fell for it, and it worked for him again. You have a break. This crap takes a piece of your life and can ruin you if you let it. Hope all is well and looking better for you soon. 99.251.125.65 (talk) 03:02, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
@Intothatdarkness .. thank you muchly - I'll try.
@99 ... I see there's a RfC, and a MED now .. best of luck. Chedzilla (talk) 01:51, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Hey

If you're like me, I think you'll find that WP is a much less frustrating place without the watchlist, especially when you're not watching admin noticeboards, and dispute loci, and talk pages of problem editors that you feel you "should" be watching, and new page patrol, and WT:RFA and its ilk, and having endless stupid discussions with really annoying people on how to Fix Wikipedia©, etc. My problem with quitting 100% completely is that there are about a dozen people here I actually like, and miss. This account has those dozen user talk pages watchlisted, and that's it (I don't even have MF's talk page watchlisted, even though it's usually entertaining, because I know I'll get pissed off watching the next round of taunting). As long as I can resist getting sucked into anything, I suspect this is the happier approach, although I'm not sure it will ever actually translate into a desire to get back to work. The only problem is that talking in character is hard, but I solved that problem by saying "fuck it", I'll talk like an edumacated monster. --Floquenstein's monster (talk) 22:09, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Very sage advice indeed, and I agree 100% I think I'll prefer to remain clueless for a bit. As you say .. a few friends. :-) Just that the weight of "admin" can be a heavy burden sometimes, and sometimes I need a break. But there's good people here that I don't want to abandoned them either. Chedzilla (talk) 01:49, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Puppies need friends

WOOF WOOF — Puppy of Dog The Teddy Bear • WOOF • 01:30, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

:-) ... good puppy. Chedzilla (talk) 16:41, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Barnstar of Good Humor
From Me to You Egg Centric 20:36, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


Hey - ty EC .. personally I think t/The whole thing is rather silly ... perhaps to the point of WP:LAME Chedzilla (talk) 20:47, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

It's already at WP:LAME in fact... indeed I updated the link at LAME a couple of hours ago. Great minds... Egg Centric 20:57, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
I just noticed that, (:)) and for sure the lads from Liverpool would get a grand chuckle out of it I'm sure. Personally I think it's a damned shame that such great music would be dealt with this way. Chedzilla (talk) 21:05, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Delete file

Keep your bit active and go delete File:NYC (25)guitar strawberry fields.jpg. I've moved it to commons and the en copy needs delete. Tks. PumpkinSky talk 23:04, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not an admin on commons - although I've thought about talking to User:Juliancolton about what that would entail. Chedzilla (talk) 05:55, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
apparently they haven't taken away my bit here yet... nuked it. Juliancolton (talk) 13:23, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks JC. Ched, when you move to commons, you delete the en copy, leaving the commons free to "show through". PumpkinSky talk 15:16, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Ahhh .. mis-read the original post .. oops. That'll teach me to be in a hurry. :) Chedzilla (talk) 15:20, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
tsk tsk! Juliancolton (talk) 20:34, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Boom boom!

LOL! Pdfpdf (talk) 11:26, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

:-D — Ched :  ?  22:19, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the nom

It's live now. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:28, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

WOOF WOOF!! — Puppy of Dog The Teddy Bear • WOOF • 23:38, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
woof supported, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:50, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
We just need to teach puppy to not pee in the house now. Chedzilla (talk) 09:54, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
your job ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:02, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
I think PumpkinSky should be entrusted with that. If HIS puppy pees or poops .. then HE should have to clean it up. :-) Chedzilla (talk) 10:07, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
now what did you mean by "we" above? you explained LMFAO, tell me what "we" means (I know wee-wee), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:33, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
I mean't "ALL of us" need to tell puppy "no" when it pees on people's pages. :-) Chedzilla (talk) 10:38, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
I thought is was the royal "we" or the editorial "we" who needs to clean up the wee... (wheee!) Montanabw(talk) 19:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Weeeeeeeee sploosh! :D Jesse V. (talk) 00:42, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Cool

As far as I know, things are good with us. I don't remember talking much at all with you.

I don't have much discretionary time anymore which is why I'm not on Wikipedia as much. I got more into going to local races. I've gotten pretty good at photography and I spend time on it. I run out of time beyond the time that I upload images of the communities that I visit in life. I only started a few articles in the past year and I spent little time on improvement. Royalbroil 02:40, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Back in 2008-2009, you helped me work on Heidelberg Raceway and a few other articles. Glad you're getting to go to races, and enjoy the photography. Best of luck in all. :-) Chedzilla (talk) 11:47, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Ah, I didn't catch the name change thingy! Of course I remember working with you. We had some great experiences working on some articles. I understand why you'd want to cut back on admin tasks. Adminship is overrated and too many people assume that it's some special power that they need to bow down before for some reason beyond me.
On July 1, I went to the Slinger Nationals and I was thinking that you had enjoyed that track too. I got to see Matt Kenseth battle his son Ross Kenseth and Kyle Busch was a big factor in the race. Every time that I leave that track I go VERY impressed. Royalbroil 04:15, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Oh my .. I absolutely LOVED Slinger - fantastic track!! I felt bad for Matt at Indy, and even though I don't often care for the "Busch attitude" .. Kyle is an undeniable talent on the track. I'll be checking out your work on commons too. :-)
Yea - trying to get away from the "real life" name, and the "admin" stuff so I can just work on articles. Trying to clean up and improve some of the old stuff right now. (mid-early 60s) in both "season" and "Daytona 500". I was worried a bit that you were upset that I had taken time off of wiki (partly wiki - partly r/l things), but really missed working with you. Great to touch base again buddy. Hope all is great in r/l for you .. sounds like it. Chedzilla (talk) 04:26, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
I always wondered if using your real name on wiki was a good idea so you made a good choice. I'm not mad that you spent time doing other things of course. We're all volunteers! When there's no racing in late fall/winter, I occasionally watch this video that I took at Slinger and it warms me up! Royalbroil 12:18, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Great video RB. I sure do miss seeing good races like that in person. Chedzilla (talk) 10:37, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Don't mention it. Oh, wait…

He he, don't mention it. Or wait, do mention it. Nice to have my selfless work appreciated for once! "Jaws" Darwinbish (talk) 20:13, 17 August 2012 (UTC).

Chedzilla always most honored to be noticed by family. <blushes through scales> I see you have grown "Jaws" - able to reach other parts of body to bite now. Much needed on wiki - many posteriors that need major chomp actions applied. — ChedZILLA 20:26, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Help

Hey Chedzilla, you seem like a nice guy. Could you please have a look at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Jean-Marie Aerts and help me avoid the queue of 582 AfC submissions? It's quality work, I assure you. Thank you very much. 66.168.247.159 (talk) 04:26, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

OH WOW .. This is simply amazing. I just followed a link to a video of TC Matic not more than an hour ago. Bye Bye Til Next Time. I had never heard of them before either - anyway - most definitely I'll try to help. I'm headed to bed right now - but I'll get it moved out to article space tomorrow. Cheers. — ChedZILLA 04:34, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Must be karma. Then again, L'Union fait la force. That amazing guitar lick in the intro, harmonics and all, that's Jean-Marie Aerts. Pudeludeludeludelup, prrdleowup prleedup! It's for the new wave lovers, obviously--children of the 80s. Thank you for your help: the word on the street is you're alright, and I guess they're right. 66.168.247.159 (talk) 04:42, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 Done ... I kin haz street cred?  :-D ... actually there's likely to be more than a few folks who might disagree with the "nice guy" or "alright" part - but thank you. Best of luck - — ChedZILLA 16:27, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, you have street cred. Thanks again! 207.157.121.92 (talk) 18:03, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
Here's another one: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Metro (Dutch newspaper). Also, I don't know if foreign company names should be translated--should Telegraaf Media Groep be renamed Telegraaf Media Group? Thanks, 207.157.121.92 (talk) 18:20, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure about the translation part - but I do know someone to ask. I'll get back to this. — ChedZILLA 18:23, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
(watching and asked) I don't translate, but create redirects of possible translations. A name is a name ;) (we did 5 German language newspapers last week) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:56, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
In some cases, the company itself offers a translation. For example, Piber Federal Stud -- (their English language web site says "Federal Stud Piber" but that's poor English Grammar, but evidence they accept an English language name.) and then we also list the German name in the first sentence. "The Piber Federal Stud (Bundesgestüt Piber) is..." See also WP:ENGLISH for guidelines. Also, it depends on if there is a common English name for the company. On the other hand, BMW for example, puts the German version first, with the English translation following. I think for a newspaper, that's the way I'd do it. Note Der Spiegel. Montanabw(talk) 18:34, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
"If there is a common name", yes. If there is only their own (likely bad) translation, no ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:46, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Sorry - I haven't had time for wiki today - but I'll check that out and move it tomorrow morning for ya 207. — Ched :  ?  02:52, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you Ched, that is very nice of you. Care to move a goodlooking young lady as well? Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Ebru Umar? 66.168.247.159 (talk) 03:45, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
I'll have a look. Note to self: Jessica Reedy is a redlink. — Ched :  ?  04:10, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
OK, whoever nominates this at DYK gets co-credit. DYK..."that after the 2004 murder of Theo van Gogh, Ebru Umar took over his inflammatory column in the free Dutch paper Metro? 207.157.121.92 (talk) 16:19, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Get it while it's hot: now a double DYK. 207.157.121.92 (talk) 17:58, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

All for you

.

I hate to share food so, I was up all night making you your own plate of brownies. The icing look delectable doesn't it. :D (olive (talk) 14:13, 10 September 2012 (UTC))

Oh no... all is lost to Darwinbish. Well at least she enjoyed them. Probably follow the crumbs to her page to see if she has any left or hidden in obscure corners [2](olive (talk) 19:32, 10 September 2012 (UTC))

I guess I could actually do some work today. (olive (talk) 19:43, 10 September 2012 (UTC))


[Breathing out a light spray of {{brownie}} crumbs as she speaks :] Darwinbish has eaten your brownies! The brownies made her happy and she'd like to give you a great big hug for leaving them where she could reach them. Spread the WikiLove by giving her more {{brownie}}s, unless you want her boys to pay you a visit!

Chedzilla is altogether too slow to have those homemade brownies "all for him"! He may have the crumbs that are left on the plate! darwinbish BITE 14:43, 10 September 2012 (UTC).
P.S. Icing was pretty nice, yep. darwinbish BITE 14:47, 10 September 2012 (UTC).
<mighty roar of joy and laughter from lizard> Must visit users to find moar brownies. Zilla 👍 Like. — ChedZILLA 09:14, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

AN/I

I disagree completely with your altering that post. Maybe if the article explained in any way what is racist about the term...but not simply because one person objects. Wrong is wrong. Holy fuck if that idea were actually applied equally to all posts on AN/I. Bugs' post was tame in comparison to most, but good for you on fixing it for him... --Onorem♠Dil 09:17, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

  • I just think it's wrong to be name calling. I doubt that it was meant the way it came across, but it was just wrong. I wasn't addressing any racial issues .. just the name calling. I agree it was a IAR post, but I was hoping to put out a small fire before it became a big one. Not something I'm going to edit war over .. but I tried. You're free to disagree with my efforts, and I thank you for noting that. In my view however - "I'm sorry - but you are wrong". — ChedZILLA 09:22, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
    • Certainly not something I'll edit war over either, but I happen to think that changing someones comments in discussion without good reason is far more wrong. You're not putting out a fire. You're simply stoking a different one. Whatever. --Onorem♠Dil 09:29, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
I did go to Bugs' talk page and started a thread, then noticed that I was not the first to do so - I therefore removed my post. You're free to note my efforts, and I'll not take offense. Hopefully we will find agreement the next time we see each other. I do thank you for talking it out with me. — ChedZILLA 09:34, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Moving from Paralympic volleyball to Sitting volleyball

Do you remember? ;-) --Kasper2006 (talk) 06:14, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Looks like someone beat me to it. Already moved. :-) — ChedZILLA 10:24, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Tnx. :-) --Kasper2006 (talk) 10:50, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Tears of a Clown when there's no one around

I first posted this at that other place but then I noticed that all the furniture was in disarray and old pizza boxes and Swanson TV dinners were strewn all over the place. Your Mick Jagger poster was in shreds and some old Bobby Darin record was repeating "...has such teeth, dear, and he shows them pearly white"...over and over again. The front door was wide open so any vagrant can just walk in and make himself at home. I would have stayed longer but the smell was unbearable. Anywho..... I just ran across Template:Friendship Barnstar and read what you said about me. A tear formed in my Left eye. (My Right eye never cries in public). The fact that I was chopping onions for this evenings fish fry had nothing to do with it. TY. ```Buster Seven Talk 13:11, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Contribution.

Hey, Chedzilla. Please help contribute to my WikiProject. This WikiProject is about different cultures. If you can take some time and help contribute to it, that would be very nice of you. I am starting this project this week and would like to finish by next week. Please help me with this project. Thank you very much. Please answer on my talk page because I might not be able to keep track of who is contributing and who is not. I would like you to also share your culture. If you can give me a little summary about your culture such as, foods, lifestlye, holidays, traditions, e.t.c, that would be extremely helpful. Thank you. So if you would wish to contribute, please reply on MY talk page. Happy edits! Have a great day! Please answer on my talk page. DEIDRA C. (talk) 19:16, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Warning

If you think you can strut around this community knocking down buildings and power lines, you've got another thing coming. And...about those powerlines. How is it that every 15 minutes or so, you find another set of power lines to knock down. How many powerlines are there? Can't you go knock down some condemned buildings or something? A little consideration will go a long way toward your rehabilitation. ```Buster Seven Talk 07:51, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

rrRRAWRRR ... 'Zilla step on condemned building and maybe make room for better things? Chedzilla careful with power lines though. Many little users get very mad when they no have Internet to play with. — ChedZILLA 17:19, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Chedzilla. You have new messages at I Jethrobot's talk page.
Message added 07:44, 11 October 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 07:44, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

  • Not a problem to leave me reminders. I try to check back a time or two within the first 24 hours after I leave a note, but beyond that I don't really watch over my edits, and I don't keep a good eye on any extensive watchlist. I'll respond there shortly. <Ched forgets to mention that his memory isn't quite what it used to be - ironic huh?> — ChedZILLA 17:38, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Chedzilla. You have new messages at I Jethrobot's talk page.
Message added 18:17, 11 October 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 18:17, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

New Account

Buster3.5 (talk) is the alter-ego of Buster7 aka B7. please take everything he says with half-a-grain of salt. he is basically a half-wit in that B7 is a full wit. his glass is half empty whereas B7's glass is "one with the water". you probably notice that he rarely begins a sentence with caps which is his half-assed way of rebelling against "The MAN". he has been called "half-priced" but that was only half right. believe ony half of what he says. everything he does is with a half-hearted effort. his nickname is "Mr 50%". ```Buster3.5 (talk) 22:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Hey there Buster - how ya doin buddy? Love the alt ... great name. Love the wordplay too .... . Do you have my email? I've kinda lost the will to contribute to this festering shithole lately - but there's a lot of great folks I admire who soldier on that I'd love to stay in touch with. Keep up the good fight buddy. Cheers. — ChedZILLA 20:56, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
food for you two, worth reading ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:02, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
Big hugs and big smiles to Gerda. :D — ChedZILLA 21:29, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
this is my halloween costume. thanks for the popcorn, gerda. actually, thanks for 1/2 the popcorn. Buster3.5 (talk) 00:46, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Did you enjoy the title story? You, Ched, played a good part in it, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:59, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
A well written and insightful story indeed Gerda, and the popcorn is delightful. My meager efforts are of little note, but I do try to be fair and honest in what I do. In response to the story, I had previously posted my thoughts - and while I've noticed that many others share similar feelings, it's still sadly a deterrent to editors trying to make a positive improvement to the project. It seems the obvious sock which is obvious of a defrocked and banned editor, the irony of users who have so steadfastly and vindictively begged for the lifetime bans of others soon echo cries of injustice when faced with a mere 3 day block for (now deleted) personal attacks, and often less than clueless admins. who deliberately perpetuate and embiggen false memes who fail to do even the most rudimentary research, while campaigning to the extent that they have more edits to a user's RfA than the candidate. I'll also note that the later two continued to follow the candidate after they had withdrawn, and after they had ceased editing (which I hope is temporary), to that user's talk page to hound, harass, and bully someone who was obviously not in the best of spirits. These are not isolated incidents either; as many users such as Giano, Betacommand, BarkingMoon, Jennivica, OR, ChildOfMidnight, and many others have also been very unfairly treated. While there are a great many people who are absolutely wonderful folks, with great hearts, and a dedication that's truly admirable - the influx of petty and vindictive vitriol (at times even at our supposedly highest and most respected levels), often leaves a very sour taste in ones mouth. It's little wonder that so many top quality people tend to post "retired" notices and thoughts of disgust and frustration. Thank you for the link - and I wish you the very best in your wonderful work here. — ChedZILLA 13:19, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the links, Ched. I will follow this story to see why it has created this sad outcome and, also, because I plan to stay and I need to know who "the ruffians" are. Hopefully the above threads will give me some insight from a source I know and trust. Therein lies my sadness:another editor I know and trust is leaving. I'm not as close to the fire as you are and I'm sorry that you got burned. Burns heal. They leave scars, but they heal. Can't you do the simple thing and return to what brought you pleasure? Can't you leave your Administrative Castle up on the hill and live with us "common folk"? We love you! I have a good childhood friend that became a policeman 40 years ago. His service to our community changed him. He had to daily deal with the "crap"...and it hardened him. But it hardened him not just to the crap but also to the rest of us, the community. He no longer saw fellow citizens: he began to see "perps" everywhere and he lost his youthful compassion. Point is....he would have been happier as a shoe salesman (or whatever.) Your friend, B7. ```Buster Seven Talk 13:40, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
  • I personally have been extremely lucky Buster, and don't feel I was wronged or burned myself. I was so fortunate back when I started; when I reached a "forget it" attitude, User:Huntster (a true guardian angel) offered me support, guidance, and encouragement. I'd imagine that as time passes I will plunk in an edit here or there on some obscure NASCAR history type of thing; when time, and desire move me to make those edits. I do spend a lot of time reading wiki - so it's not that I have ever or will ever abandoned the good folk here. (never far away) .. :) — ChedZILLA 13:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
  • I, for one, will be sorry to see you pull back, Ched. I'm not a longtime or prolific editor by any means, and frankly the nature of the community broadly construed doesn't lead me to want to become either longtime or prolific. The tolerance (even encouragement) of passive-aggressive baiting and hounding here is disheartening, as is the double standard for people. Intothatdarkness 14:39, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Ched. Maybe talk to your friend DB Get involved with WP:WER and work to save those many top quality people who tend to post "retired" notices. Maybe create a project or something where forlorn editors can get together and commisorate and share their thoughts of disgust and frustration. They can realize that their concern is shared and they can work toward solution. They can collaborate on a plan of action. If all you good guys leave all that will remain is conflict. ```Buster Seven Talk 16:26, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Empty Chair Barnstar

— The candles you have lit will not wane. WE cannot replace you but will do our best 'till you return. B7

```Buster Seven Talk 07:09, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Happy Thanksgiving!

Happy Thanksgiving, Chedzilla!
As we all sit down at the dinner table and say our thanks today, I would like to give thanks to you for your wonderful contributions and wish you a very happy Thanksgiving. May your turkey, ham or beast of choice satiate you until next year! TRA! ```Buster Seven Talk 14:10, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
A traditional Thanksgiving dinner.


TY Buster .. tons of IRL stuff .. but always wishing the best for all my wiki friends. :) — ChedZILLA 21:33, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Nudge nudge

How little zilla doing? Hope not sad and lonely ? bishzilla ROARR!! 20:44, 6 December 2012 (UTC).

Hi...

I've undone your removal of the TV.com external links from numerous Voyager articles. As the current form of the template states, it is under consideration for deletion. If the consensus is to delete, a bot will be tasked to remove it from all articles. If the consensus results in keeping the template, I will modify each Star Trek episode article (not just those of Voyager) to contain a fixed link. The current "dead link" condistion is occurring because the TV.com website re-organized, making the previously working URL's invalid. Again, if the template is kept, I'll repair the links. Also, in the future, if you encounter a dead link, please tag it so (using {{dead link}}) to allow others an opportunity to notice the problem and repair it rather than simply deleting it out of hand. Thanks, Cbbkr (talk) 21:39, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Replied at — Ched :  ?  22:46, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Very nice also

Giftwrapped lutefisk for you!

Hey, Chedzilla, see my way cool morning star santa hat? I'ma swing that instead of biting, for Christmas! [db is probably a little selfconscious about bringing a Christmas present like some wienie. But at least it's lutefisk! ] darwinbish BITE 20:36, 23 December 2012 (UTC).

A phrase to make you smile, perhaps

Snobbery with menaces. One of my better ones, I think ;P Pesky (talk) 16:40, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Winter Wonderland

Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, peoples rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension.

Happy Holidays. ```Buster Seven Talk 14:41, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
👍 Like Very nice Buster .. ty buddy. Looks so peaceful there. :) — Ched :  ?  22:01, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
Shhhhhh! It IS peaceful. But....as in life....things can change in the wink of an eye. If you will notice the accummulated snow in the foreground you will, I'm sure, realize that a catostrophic avalance can occur at any minute. So....tread softly and don't make any loud sounds. ```Buster Seven Talk 22:09, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Hey

Where have you been little dino? Ya know, sometimes I get a little tired dealing with all the adminy stuff - ya wanna jump in and get some article work done for me? — Ched :  ?  23:38, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

rrawrRR .. silly little master. You can edit articles too ya know. Why you do this? Nobody care about "big picture" ... silly little master. You go finish what you need to, then you come back and curl up in most wonderful pocket that Bishzilla give me. Then I go edit articles. Chedzilla understand about editors feeling "alone" .. me protect you .. rrawwwrRRRRRR — ChedZILLA 01:28, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

testing 123

User:Ched bla bla bla — ChedZILLA 20:21, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Dino?

Dino? Are you sure that's not a crocodile? Or a moomintroll? darwinbish BITE ☠ 19:37, 23 May 2013 (UTC).

moar questions ...

Master? ... we didn't ask about "jumbo shrimp". — ChedZILLA 07:52, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
And you not tell Ms. 'Shonen family about pretty essay — ChedZILLA 07:57, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

User talk:66.168.247.159

Chedzilla, I was looking at this page, apparently from an old IP address I used to have, and was reminded of what a nice guy you are. Don't let them change you. Please give my regards to the other Zilla--Bishzilla. Yours, IPZilla 207.157.121.92 (talk) 14:41, 15 July 2013 (UTC)


Poor little Chedzilla!

Poor little Chedzilla abandoned by master! Commiserations! [Bishzilla considers inviting the zilla to her harem for wild sex. Hmmm. That turned out a little problematic with User:Floquenstein's monster. Maybe not. These fellows need their masters around to keep them in check, probably.] P.S. Bishzilla boldly bite Miszabot in half. Does not wish her good wishes to be archived in 3 days! bishzilla ROARR!! 09:49, 3 September 2013 (UTC).

rrawrrRRR ... <tail thump and scales flushed at thought of wild monster sex with most sensual 'Zilla.> But me not abandoned master. He say things to tell all little users: He say much speculation ( what mean "speculation"?> over why he gone. He say MANY things. Not just "case", but also many other things on wiki that he can not fix. He say it foolish to bail water from Titanic with thimble, especially when captain not steering ship in good direction. Main reason master gone is real life things though. If ship still afloat in time, he try to find way back. — ChedZILLA 07:33, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
teehee!... <closes eyes. too young to watch monster sex> ship made of cork. will float forever!```Buster3.5 Talk 12:23, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Boardwalk Fire in New Jersey....

Hi, In regards to your edit on Atlantic City, New Jersey and FYI the boardwalk fire that occurred in New Jersey was in Seaside Park and part of Seaside Heights, New Jersey not Atlantic City which is over 60 miles south from Seaside Park/Heights. Please research your information before you post thanks. TheGoofyGolfer (talk) 19:37, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Well then I hope you at least moved it to where it was relevant TGG. And please don't "lecture" me, I don't have much tolerance for that kind of behavior, and my pay grade doesn't require that I do. — ChedZILLA 07:42, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Sir, I wasn't trying to lecture you I was just trying to inform you that's all. TheGoofyGolfer (talk) 19:36, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
OK. Sorry if I was short. For me, I don't care - just that new or timid users might be put-off by "research your information" type of posts.
There's so many miles of "boardwalk" in NJ - and it was a big story. I did a NJ., boardwalk search - and that was the article that came up. I don't live there - but was there as a kid. I noticed reference to damage from Sandy above where I posted in the article - and thought I had the right spot. Anyway - thanks for all you do for the project, and again I apologize for being defensive. I know my temperament hasn't been as calm as I'd like - but I'm working on getting back to a more pleasant personality. Well - my "master is - 'Zilla always "rrawrRRR". Cheers. — ChedZILLA 20:08, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Suggestion

Use this to file your fangs down just a bit. Not much, just a bit. ```Buster 3.5 Talk 23:49, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

👍 Like :-) — ChedZILLA 13:28, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

A note

I would have hoped it would be obvious, but enabling[3] a sanctioned user to circumvent their ArbCom sanctions is not good. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 16:43, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Sigh ... OK - fine. I won't add another infobox. But I'll tell ya what David - contrary to our current policies - you (the committee, not necessarily you personally) have definitely ignored the rules of our site. You've ignored stalking issues. You've ignored wp:own issues. And you have smacked one side of the infobox debate and patted the other side on the head. And I'll tell you something else - Andy researched that article - he wrote it - he referenced it ... and there is no damned good reason why he shouldn't be able to have an infobox in it. Obvious? Yep .. there's a LOT becoming "obvious" lately. Flat out? Your damned "committee" sucks buddy. Anything further I have to say wouldn't be suitable for ladies or small children - but do feel free to talk to me in email - cause I won't hesitate for a second to tell the freaking committee where they can get off. Are we clear on where I stand? — ChedZILLA 17:45, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
  1. I'm with Ched on this one. AC has LOST ALL CREDIBILITY and anything they say or has no standing with me whatsoever. PumpkinSky talk 17:54, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
  2. Intothatdarkness 18:01, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
  3. Go Chedzilla: The Jedi return! Montanabw(talk) 19:23, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
  4. To restrict users from adding an infobox to their own articles - where they are certainly not in conflict with anybody nor the guidelines - seems without reason. What is it then, restriction for restriction's sake? How is it improving the project? Helping the readers? - it-WP has beautiful infoboxes for operas, and this looks promising! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:15, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
  • NO ... I am not gonna let this drop. David - we are gonna talk this out. My talk, your talk, AC/N ... I don't care ... but this is total bullshit - and I will have my say. I told one friend that I wouldn't be one of those "go on about it" people once the "case" was close ...but NO I am not gonna be chased quietly into the night. If all this is about some sort of WMUK v. WMF thing ... then put it out in the open. I love this project, but I have had it. I'm fed up with the bullshit here. I give you credit for being man enough to come talk to me ... thank you for that. But the damned case didn't solve a thing ... and when I tried to start a RfC page ... it was a "not now - later" reply. OK ... I'm starting to type foul language words ... so I'll be back later. — ChedZILLA 21:45, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Ched, it wasn't a well thought out edit. Nothing wrong with the infobox but waving the red "I'm doing this in defiance of the committee" edit summary. Obviously you gotta do what you think is right but any time I see one of the "gets it" admins on their way out it makes me sad. A wiki-suicide (or suicide-by-arbcom) departure won't make this place any better. NE Ent 02:50, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

(watching) "Nothing wrong with the infobox", - well observed. Then how would you advise to show the next one to the reader, on the background of my request (supported by uninvolved editors) and my comment above? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:26, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
The tide of users totally fed up with arbcom and willing to ignore them as they no longer matter is ever growing. AC needs abolished. It's way past the time for the arbs to wake up and smell the dead roses. PumpkinSky talk 02:56, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
  • @ NE Ent ... it honestly wasn't my intent to defy arbcom or throw anything in their face. But I didn't want to try to "sneak something by" either - so it (edit summary) was more about transparency. I actually did talk to Andy before I did it too - and he actually did want the box there. So often it seems like this place is a "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" thing. I just don't know anymore. Like I said - I won't add another box. And I damned sure never edit warred with anyone to push one through. Either way - thank you, I do appreciate the note. — ChedZILLA 13:15, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
    So if departures "don't make things better" and the system is structured so that meaningful change is impossible, what does fix things here? That may sound like a flip question, but I'm asking it in all seriousness. What can we do to make things better? I mean really better, not just another band-aid on a festering wound. Considering how easy it is for one of the shadow bureaucracies to stall out or frustrate any attempts to change policies they OWN, is it even possible? From what I've seen the system is just too easy for POV warriors to game, especially if they have the right friends in the right locations (or at least allies of convenience). Or should people just say "fuck 'em all" and walk away? And STAY away, not come back in two weeks thinking it will all be better when we know that it has a higher chance of being worse. Intothatdarkness 13:54, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
    • I think it is unfixable; the bullies and POV warriors will fight to the bitter end and there's no effective mechanism to deal with them. As horrible as things are, we need more people to stand up and refuse to put up with this BS, such as a totally unfunctioning arbcom. Such as abusive admins, they make horrible blocks and nothing happens to them, yet the innocent victim gets a blemish on their record that wiki will never forget and is a black mark on Scottywong's tool. All totally sickening. PumpkinSky talk 15:49, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict) and re: to Into. Actually I think that sooner or later there's going to have to be some sort of "paid" management put in place. Not the go round up school kids to edit and PR kind - but put in place trained paid people to deal with all 3 aspects of the site. (content, behavior, and policy). Maybe 3 folks for each - and some sort of oversight to make sure they are good people doing a good job. And no .. that's not a cheap jab at the current arbs - I have no doubt they are good folks doing the best they can (although WHY they would want to is beyond me). Not that wikipedia is going to fall apart tomorrow - but it sure as hell has gone downhill over the last few years. The content is still there - but the behavior issues are tearing the place apart. There is simply no consistency in management here. Wikipedia makes enough money I'm sure to make those changes - but the question is WILL they? And when? If all the money simply goes to recruiting and tolerating children that do nothing but stir shit-pots .. then the truly experienced and capable content creators aren't going to want to stick around. It doesn't even really matter if it's a more lax management or a more strict one .. so long as it is consistent, fair, and uniform. Then the editors can know what to expect if they do x.y.z. When management says in January that it's ok to edit by proxy - and then complains when it's done in September .. it's simply a no-win situation. So I suggest that we pay NYB and Carch enough to retire from their real jobs so they can put 40 hours a week into managing this website ... lol. Thus ends my "op-ed" for today. :P — ChedZILLA 16:04, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
I tend to agree. It's actually pretty ridiculous that a resource that is supposed to be this important is managed (and I use that term loosely) by a pack of volunteers with no real training or stated qualifications. Although I'd want to go outside the established power structures to find those paid managers. But I suspect that's about as likely to happen as real admin reform... Intothatdarkness 17:26, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
In order for things to get better here, editors have to decide what's really important. I think the amount of energy, emotion, and time invested in the infobox question far exceeds its actual importance to the project. We've created a situation where our most passionate and talented editors spend all their time fighting over things that, in the grand scheme of things, don't really matter much either way.

Here are the things I think are really important: we have an ongoing problem with BLPs, particularly low-profile BLPs. We have a major problem with inaccurate, misleading, or outright dangerous medical misinformation. We have a real head-in-the-sand problem with regard to conflicts of interest.

If we could take one small fraction of the time, effort, and passion invested in the infobox question and instead apply it to problems that really matter, then things will be better here. MastCell Talk 22:39, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

My view is a bit different. I don't see so much "energy, emotion, and time invested in the infobox question", for example most of the arb case of the same name was NOT devoted to it. I see more infobox discussion in the simple case mentioned above, with participants from both "sides" (which the case portrayed as opponents in battle), with results and improvements, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:51, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
@ PS - yep .. add that one to the "content, behavior and policy" jobs. The "admin" aspect needs to be fixed too. — ChedZILLA 16:07, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
And at David - if you stop back to read. If I overreacted to the "enabled" comment - just remember it was the committee who outright "enabled" people to violate wp:stalk, wp:own, and wp:ew - so sauce for the goose my friend. — ChedZILLA 16:13, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
I haven't said you overreacted, or tried to stifle your discussion, or told you to be quiet, or anything that you seem to suppose with your comments. I do wonder what's the point of the scare quotes on select words, but I suppose that's a formatting oddity. I will leave you with one rhetorical question on your comments above—how is Andy's right to add an infobox due to his creation and referencing of the page different from the perceived ownership issues of articles by others if they wish to remove infoboxes from articles they have shepherded in much the same way? As for the rest, it's clear we hold differing points of view on the matter. While I might agree with you on some possible sources of issues within Wikipedia's community, by my estimation it's a very refractive looking glass through which you espy them. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 19:25, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Well, you are an arb., and even if we disagree on something I think the position deserves some respect. I'm frustrated with many things on wiki, including the committee - and I've said some disparaging things about the group. I didn't want it to come across as yelling at you personally. I looked back at your post and wondered why I got so upset by it, and I think it was the word "enabled" that ticked me off. When I hear that word I take it in a negative light - such as "enabling" a banned sock puppet to edit. So that's why I put it in quotes - so yes, just a formatting thing. In a sense I can agree with what you're saying as far as ownership of articles - but again, that's precisely what a group of people who work on classical music and composer articles have done; so why is it ok for some, and not for others? I've read the link, and I do understand the intent there, but I also think that people who actually do the building of articles should get some consideration too. If someone else had written or expanded that article I wouldn't have added the box - and I doubt Andy would have approved of me doing so. I know you and Dave (Worm) had to put in a lot of time reading and drafting, and even if I disagree on results, I do appreciate your time. (and Carcharoth put a lot of time and thought into it as well.) I don't know how much you and I agree or disagree on things only because I don't recall ever talking to you that much. Risker and Dave I've talked to at times over the years, and I've read a lot of the things NYB and Carch. have had to say - but I don't really know the other members of the committee all that well. I know it's a tough job, and I honestly don't see much upside to having the position, but I appreciate that you all do it. Do I think some of the things in the remedies were wrong? Yes. Do I think it came across as the committee choosing a side to favor? Absolutely. Do I think the 2013 committee as a group has made some very poor choices? Yes I do; but not because of the individuals, more because the group is so large and diverse. Do I recall who supported or opposed which points in the PD? No, not really, I don't keep score of those sorts of things. Too easy for grudges to build up that way. To be honest, I'm not even sure if you personally lean more towards strict or lenient on the scale. I've always considered you a fairly quiet person, although I have seen some of your stuff in various RfA pages over the years. Anyway - thanks for letting me have my say. — ChedZILLA 20:35, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
    • Many good points here...But there are more. I'm shocked wiki limps along at all. No meaningful change can be effected. People have argued about RFA reform 7-10 years and the result is ZERO changes. Abusive admins run amok and no one will do anything about them. The amount of effort and time expended to get Raul's name removed from FA-land AFTER he left was ridiculous. I agree with Mastcell about BLPs and COI. As for medical misinfo, I wouldn't know it if I saw it, that's why I go to a doctor and don't treat myself. The socking policy is a joke. It needs completely rewritten. We should be able to remove a bogus block. Crats should be able to remove bits...the proposal by 28bytes was brilliant but since change is impossible here, it didn't quite make it. We need an efficient way to deal with abusive admins...dealing with that is like asking the SS to investigate the Gestapo. It's just like the real world, the bad guys get all the rights and the victims get shit upon. Wiki never forgives and never forgets. We need a Rule of Law; NOTADECOMCRACY needs to go. PumpkinSky talk 23:14, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
      • PS, one of the reasons reform never moves forward is due to the ease of blocking any changes. No matter how much people fuss about OWN of articles, OWN of policy is a far greater threat. All it takes is one or two folks with a stake in some policy or another (or an axe to grind) and they can draw out any discussion until people lose interest and wander away. Then it turns into "the community" can't decide or there's no consensus and the reform sinks into the bowels of Wiki. Policy OWN is the greatest obstacle to reform or change here. Intothatdarkness 14:06, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

"Wohltemperierte" discussion

I would like to point out the "wohltemperierte" discussion about an infobox for composer Talk:Robert Stoepel. There were comments such as

"*A failed "proposal"? What are you smoking? The article should have an infobox, regardless of whether some content needs discussion. I have written many bios, and edited 1000s more, and never seen a fight over a legitimate infobox.--Milowent • hasspoken 02:40, 24 March 2013 (UTC)"

The composer has an infobox, - the state of the art we had in March 2013. The Case looked only at a past before that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:44, 20 September 2013 (UTC)


Reply

Ched looking for honesty on Wikipedia?

Honest? Wikipedia? When I was a lad Mad Magazine's parody of Serpico had frame in which the girlfriend said 'Serpico, you're one in a million' and he said 'Because I'm so brave and honest' and she said, 'No, your the only person in New York that didn't know cops were on the take.'

Yup. This place is pretty messed up. Don't know whether I know that better than others 'cause folks don't hold back as much around low edit count non-admins, or 'cause I spent so much time in the little cesspit know as WQA. But what's always keep me going is the no-so-few (such as the folks you listed at Flo's review) who rise above the fray and nonsense and just try to do the right thing.

Anyway, wrote an essay: The Committee. NE Ent 19:08, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

TY Ent - and a nice essay as well. Hope to see everyone again soon. (Ched, not at home). 50.199.160.101 (talk) 11:30, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Well...

I think you've taken the correct path here. Given the last shit, I'm really thinking retirement is the best option. Been on the fence for some time, but I think this might have done it. I know you have a high opinion of Worm, but anyone who thinks you can indef and then expect "calm discussion" on a drama board is either confused or hopelessly idealistic. Hope you're having fun in the real world...it's a far more rewarding place even on its worst days. Intothatdarkness 15:49, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

↑ What he said. Someone who thinks "Enough is enough" is suitable as the explanation for an indefblock of any contributor that established (and then suggests ANI as the appropriate place for "calm discussion") is so detached from reality they have no business being an admin, let alone an arb—even a "pooop!" vandal gets treated with more courtesy than that. I very much doubt Worm made a decision this contentious on his own, and suspect that today's page in the next set of arbcom-l leaks will make interesting reading. (FWIW, I don't disagree with Spartaz's original block; I wouldn't have blocked myself, but it was well within the boundaries of reasonable outcomes. There's a big difference between Spartaz's "I've blocked you, here's why, and here's what you can do about it" and WTT's "I don't like you so I've unilaterally sitebanned you", though.) – iridescent 16:55, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
I've followed up part of the above on Iridescent's talk page here. Carcharoth (talk) 01:57, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
I didn't have a major problem with Spartaz's block, although I think it ignored some of the things leading up to it (the discussion that happens every year around Guy Fawkes Night here, for example). It was simple enough, and I've never had a major issue with someone having a bit of a rant on their talk (if you don't like it, don't go there). But the random indef by a member of Arbcom was over the line, especially since there were plenty of Admin "eyes on" that page (and anyone who doesn't believe that is delusional). Intothatdarkness 17:10, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
To be honest, I don't know the answer here. Eric can be a great writer of content. I think that trying to create some sort of utopia on a website is a noble thought, but a very naive one. The thing is - at Eric's age I think it's highly unlikely that he will ever change. I'm also less than encouraged that Fram seems to have made the removal of Eric as his/her next cause. There was success in removing Betacommand, Rich Farmbrough, and a few others who were well established editors. I also think that it's unlikely that anyone or any process will change the types of actions set in place. Things certainly have taken a course of escalation since I last looked at the situation - and I've only read Eric's talk page, ANI, and AN at this point. The one fortunate thing is that this website has little impact on my real life, and I can only hope that is the case for other editors. I'll continue to check in from time to time, but given the current state of affairs and management model that this site adheres to, I don't see any way that I could assist in any beneficial changes. (which admittedly does sadden me a bit). This and this are certainly interesting reads - although I don't declare it to be fact. At this point all I can do is wish all the very best of luck. Cheers. — ChedZILLA 19:14, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
From what I've seen with editors other than Eric, the elephant in the room is the issue of baiting/poking the bear/whatever the hell you want to call passive/aggressive baiting. No one wants to touch that one, even though it's uncivil as hell and appears to be the tactic of choice whenever someone wants to get rid of someone or get their way. That's the part that saddens me. Intothatdarkness 19:19, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
I agree wholeheartedly with you on that Into - 100% — ChedZILLA 19:29, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
So do I, even mentioned poking yesterday on Eric's talk, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:35, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
But there's no real concern about baiting. Worm made some comment in one of those myopic solution threads about Eric being the constant in most of these situations. I suspect that you could make the same claim about a number of the baiting scenarios, and it might come closer to being true. I can think of a couple of users who have had repeated run-ins with serial "civil" baiters, and they usually get away with their behavior. All those so-called solutions do is give baiters another tool to run off people who don't agree with their goals or points of view. Lost in the flurry was the question about how many admins watched Eric's page, letting things build without stepping in...until he said something. Intothatdarkness 21:27, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
589 at the time of writing 188.29.26.224 (talk) 21:32, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Now the talk is frozen with "Precious" on top, "We need a perspective" - written in May 2012 and still not in sight, or do you see one? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:04, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
IMO things continue to be on a downward spiral. I suppose it will have to hit rock bottom before it improves; but that can only happen if it survives. There are many wonderful folks here, and a large number of people to add to the content and improvements; still I'd be hard pressed to name an editor who's spent as many hours working on articles as Eric. I'm sure a great many people wish he would often tone down his retorts to baiting editors, but I long ago accepted that he is who he is; and I doubt it will change. I think that Worm mentioned that he would be adding protection to his talk page - but I can't really agree that is the right approach. HOPEFULLY he (Dave/Worm) is engaged in some meaningful discussion with Eric in email. I don't know if that could achieve anything - but I can at least hope. Perhaps the saddest thing of all is the calculable hours that get spent on dramafests like these which could have been spent developing content for our readers. Wiki truly has become the UseNET of the 21st century. I guess I just got to the point where I didn't want to play anymore - but I do wish my friends and those I've come to respect all the best in their efforts. And while it's implied, I will state outright, Gerda, I do admire the work you've put into bringing our readers quality articles on so many people and other topics of interest. — ChedZILLA 22:18, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Thank you. Did you see my latest? (I saw the scene.) - If you get discouraged just look at the Precious list, #288 was passed a year ago, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:25, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

As this seems to be the water cooler place to be, I've had some thoughts. Has anyone noticed that the users most frequently targeted by the bullies and "abusive admins" of wikipedia are people who, from their personas and self-disclosure, appear to be older editors? i.e. "grownups." My question is if there is a generational divide here, and the treating of good editors being handled as if it were a MMRPGinstead of a workplace? If not a cause, then at least something making it worse? Just wondering. Also wondering of people with the mop are getting full of themselves on the same grounds - not old enough to know better. I believe that a few admins in that contingent probably ARE old enough to know better, but what sort of groupthink echo chamber have they fallen into? I guess "enquiring minds" are curious. Montanabw(talk) 02:58, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

I tend to think that one issue that enables what you're talking about, MT, is the lack of a group norm or standard of behavior for admins. At least on higher-end message boards there's an agreed standard (for the most part, at least) for admins, and on blogs the owner can just zap whatever they want. Here...well...the little rodents can skitter and chew on whatever they want with no real restraints (especially if you know the right people or learn how to be a complete and utter bastard in a "civil" way). I also think there's a temptation to whack at people who seem to know what they're doing. We're seeing "gang up on the smart kids" in a big way. Intothatdarkness 13:36, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
It may not have been a good thing to get me editing again. I tend to speak my mind. But thank you for your support. — ChedZILLA 00:06, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
The problem that I see with AN/I and AN is that Editors who frequent noticeboards have no problem with sudden, unilateral indefinite blocks when the Editor has unusual attitudes, doesn't take immediately to Wikipedia's many rules and policies, seems out of their element, awkward or, simply, is outgunned by folks who find them irritating. Few defend their right for a due process. Eric is fortunate in that he has many allies. If he didn't have such a loyal group of supporters, I'm sure he would have been blocked a long time ago. Liz Read! Talk! 23:30, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Hey folks. I'm here first to address iridescent's comment, which is understandably made in anger. I don't believe he'd read any of the AN thread at that point and I got an email of a similar tone. I will say that this was entirely my own decision, based on the fact that Eric was making inappropriate comments after a 12 hour break from the encyclopedia. It was in light of a 3 month block, which I felt was grossly inappropriate and I thought the better option was to move it to an "indefinite" period, and try to find a solution. I also could see Eric wasn't in the right frame of mind to discuss the matter and that he would be badgered at his talk page making things worse, so I shut that down for 24 hours. It certainly wasn't an "I don't like Eric" block, because I do like Eric and I've defended him both on and off wiki. I fully explained my reasoning at AN and participated in that thread, even working towards a solution (that both sides didn't like). I didn't discuss the matter with any arbitrators, and when I first saw an email regarding it, I commented On the Eric issue, I'm afraid I'm to blame. I, of course recuse, should it come to a case and apologise in advance for any problems you all have to deal with. That is my only comment off-wiki to the arbcom list on the matter.

    Ched, I'm afraid that I didn't contact Eric on the matter off wiki. I didn't see the point, as I've tried to engage with him a number of times in the past (at least 3), and generally it has been unproductive. I'm planning on dropping him a note today at some point, because I'm not willing to let things carry on like this. There's a few ways that we can move forward, hopefully Eric would be willing to agree to one. WormTT(talk) 08:09, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Yet the wider issue of baiting (not just of Eric...that myopic focus really needs to end) remains, as does the number of admins who let things on Eric's page escalate until someone could pull the block trigger. Having read that frankly condescending piece on Eric's page, I can see that the myopic focus is still firmly in place. Taking the easy route will solve precisely nothing. And Ched, there's nothing wrong with speaking your mind. Someone needs to. Intothatdarkness 14:13, 31 October 2013 (UTC)


(after ec) Wow - long day here - anyway briefly before I head to my ez-chair and tv. First thanks Dave for stopping by and talking. As far as Iri., I would never try to guess what he's read or not read. I know he does his research extensively before commenting, and his insight is amazing. Do I always agree with him - heavens no, but I do give weight to what he says and I listen to it and think about it. In this case, I very much agree with what he said. I also feel the same level of "heads up" when you, Carch, NYB, Risker, and perhaps a dozen others speak; doesn't mean I'm going to agree - but I will listen.
As it seems that much of the current drama (re Eric) seems to be calming down, I'll try to respect that. I do understand where you were headed, and even if I don't agree with the path - I admire the destination. I do see there are a couple discussions underway - and perhaps in a day or two I'll comment at one of those, but for now I'll let any sleeping dogs remain at rest for now.
Regarding my comments at RFAR - as much as I regret the tone, sadly people don't seem to listen to softer language. And again - it was directed at the committee as a group - NOT any of the individuals. While it is easier to get to know an individual, when you have a group as large and diverse as what AC is now, then much like the admin corp in general, it's a "first come first serve" situation. When the "lenient" arbs take control, it presents an entirely different face than when the "strict" arbs take charge. That leads to an inconsistency that makes it difficult for the editing community to know what is right and acceptable. I realize that the "readership" of our site doesn't see the "how" the sausage is made, but those in the kitchen are having a difficult time right now. Now perhaps I made a mistake in logging back in, or having a look around behind the scenes - but as frustrated as I am, I do love this project and I don't like the direction this ship is headed. Enough for now - but I will try to followup with a few other things I likely need to find closure with. Cheers and best Dave — ChedZILLA 00:08, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

I appreciate you taking a stand for allowing a diversity of voices and opinions to be heard on Wikipedia. The opinions may not all be valued equally, they may not all be given the same weight and space. But I don't believe any Editor who behaves reasonably and treats other with respect should be bullied, chased away from editing specific articles or be silenced by indefinite blocks.

I find myself in a position of defending Editors whose views I don't agree with simply because they seem to be unfairly targeted by others. I found myself reading Fastily's good-bye message this morning and saw a lot of points I am in agreement with. I also stumbled on to the Timid Guy/Will Beback ARBCOM case and read " Wikipedia's policy against harassment and outing takes precedence over the COI guideline."

One thing I'm left with wondering is why those who malign certain religious groups and those who have different belief systems appear more like zealots than those they are opposed to along with how they are blind to their own behavior. Liz Read! Talk! 23:05, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

I just realized that my comments are very ambiguous because I would rather talk about policy and behavior than individuals. But I should just point out that these comments didn't concern Eric's situation (as discussed above) but about the battles over "pseudoscience" and TM that have been raging on and off for years here. I see the same attitude towards both. Liz Read! Talk! 20:27, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

I just wanted to wish all you folks a wonderful holiday season. Regardless of faith, I hope you all have a wonderful life. Hugs to the ladies, and high-fives to the guys. Have a great one. — ChedZILLA 11:58, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Season's greetings from Santa and her little helpers

Tis the season

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!
Hope you and your family have a great Christmas and a Happy New Year! — Huntster (t @ c) 21:49, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Move like this

I liked your one more step, - one link goes to "awesomely weird", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:01, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Did you know that a blue duck attacks the German Main page right now? - had to happen on the 28th ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:50, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
I am so happy that this sorrow is over, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:35, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Precious again

kindness and constancy
Thank you for being the reliable source in person, trusting your friends even if people say they deceive you, teaching me vocabulary ("impervious to advice") and abbreviations (you know what I mean). Thank you for your faithful presence, - repeating: you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:27, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Two years ago, you were the 25th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:34, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much Gerda, although I haven't done anything of mention for months due to real life stuff. I'll consider it one of those "lifetime achievement" type of things ... lol. :). Hope you (and everyone else) are doing well. Best always — ChedZILLA 17:30, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
You have constantly been kind, a lifetime achievement ;) - my way of pointing out the new "awesome" link. I archived sorrow, back on fire. Yes well, Sunday hike. In case you missed it, I have my first FAC going, linked from the top of my user page, Erschallet, ihr Lieder, sound, you songs! (I forgot to sign, and changed the top to An Ethics of Dissensus, interesting concept, interesting article history) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:41, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Belated thanks

I know this is late but I wanted to take a moment to thank you for your participation at my RfA. I was very inspired by the many that supported me and it’s that feeling of friendship and camaraderie that keeps me coming back to the project. So, thank you for your support and for your continued sense of fairness and compassion in all areas of WP. I look forward to the opportunity to work together in the days to come. Best wishes, -- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:36, 9 March 2014 (UTC)


will get back soon ... ty for the post Keith ... best always. 72.77.73.22 (talk) 02:57, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Scott Hansen

Notice that I started an article on him when I found some information on his father in a local newspaper. He's from my area. I couldn't find much on Hansen's ASA career which was his bread & butter. I'm hoping that you might have something to add to it?? Royalbroil 01:10, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Hey RB - FANTASTIC! I'll be away from home through this coming weekend, but will get on it early next week. So glad to see an article about him, he was always a favorite driver of mine - so it will be a joy to try to dig up some info. (and get me back to work here too. :)). 50.199.160.101 (talk) 13:25, 14 May 2014 (UTC) (Ched/Chedzilla - not at home).

Community desysoping RfC

Hi. You are invited to comment at RfC for BARC - a community desysoping process. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:34, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

don't fret

Hey little monsTer .. never fear - yes I know it hurts to be ignored and dismissed; but fear not. When I return in a couple weeks, I will search for the key to unleash you (I have that login password somewhere). To paraphrase Kurt - Chedzilla is coming - and hell is coming with him. — Ched :  ?  13:08, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Chedzilla. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:50, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Yep - really well thought out plan huh? So nice that y'all did your homework so well too. Zilla no longer feel like stupid one here. Cream may rise to the top - but so does a turd in a punchbowl. — ChedZILLA 20:46, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
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