User talk:Bejnar/Archive 10

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Archive 10

January 2011 - December 2011

WikiProject Dacia

Hi! From your edits, it looks like you might be interested in ancient Dacia. Would you like to join the WikiProject Dacia? It is a project aimed to better organize and improve the quality and accuracy of the articles related to these topics. We need help expanding and reviewing many articles, and we also need more images. Your input is welcomed! Thanks and best regards!

--Codrin.B (talk) 03:37, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Restoring the Lost Constitution

Another Randy Barnett-related article, Restoring the Lost Constitution, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Restoring the Lost Constitution. Thank you Rillian (talk) 19:59, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Barqah merger with Cyrenaica

There's been recent response to your merge proposal at Talk:Cyrenaica in favour of a merge. — AjaxSmack 01:28, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Kudos

hi! I just wanted to say "Thank you" to you for this edit. Good job! I don't really believe in the whole "barnstar" thing, but if you want one for yourself, feel free to consider this the award of one.
— V = IR (Talk • Contribs) 00:17, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Intersection of two categories

I noticed your question at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 March 1#Category:Heterosexual singers about "when an intersection of two categories legitimately creates a notable one", and I wanted to point you to the guideline on categorization by ethnicity, gender, religion and sexuality, specifically the section 'Special subcategories', which states (in part):

Dedicated group-subject subcategories, such as Category:LGBT writers or Category:African American musicians, should be created only where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right. If a substantial and encyclopedic head article (not just a list) cannot be written for such a category, then the category should not be created. .... Generally, this means that the basic criterion for such a category is whether the topic has already been established as academically or culturally significant by external sources.

For category intersections which do not involve ethnicity, gender, race, religion or sexuality, judgments about usefulness are based on considerations of organizational issues and on whether the intersection is defining for the topics being categorized.

I hope this helps. Cheers, -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 21:38, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome, and I think you're right. It is not always an easy test, though, and sadly is underused. Best, -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 21:48, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Re:Regime change Libya

Hallo Bejnar, I answered on my Talk page. Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 06:47, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Syrtis Minor to Tripoli or not

Your edit to Syrtis only surprises me because the article Syrtis Minor states clearly in its lead "The gulf roughly spans the coast from modern day Tripoli..." This you've let remain in "Syrtis Minor" through all your edits there, and this is why in editing the dab page I inferred (apparently wrongly) that you had objections to the "from Sfax" half but not to the "to Tripoli" half. In any case, a disambiguation page can do no better than to state briefly the subjects as defined on the target pages, so the real correction should be made there first. Could you clarify whether you believe that according to the best WP:RS the Gulf of Gabès washes the shore of Libya at all? If so, I would like to see the disambiguation page edited into a form that says so in a way acceptable to you, however indeterminately. In any case, I hope to see Gulf of Gabès become more accurate if there is a problem. Wareh (talk) 17:39, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok. I have no settled opinion about the limits of Syrtis Minor, though standard reference works on ancient usage indicate that Syrtes (pl.) are "the notoriously dangerous shoals and shallows...of the Libyan continental shelf of north Africa from Cyrenaica through Tripolitania to Tunisia" (OCD). Perhaps I should beef up the mere cross-references in the two "Gulf" articles to include this citation. What do you think? Wareh (talk) 18:03, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

If the non-gulf area has "dangerous shoals and shallows" then I am very confident that it would be considered part of "the Syrtes" though not part of either gulf, and I would be willing to seek better support for that to provide the reader with better information. If on the other hand the dangerous shallows are only in the two gulfs, then I do not want to be led by sloppiness & imprecision to muddy the waters, so to speak. Do you have any insight into this question? Wareh (talk) 19:49, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for showing me the Pliny. An ancient reference to "between the two Syrtes" completely disinclines me from the idea of a more inclusive referent of "Syrtes." Wareh (talk) 19:52, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Finally, then, for what it's worth, I encourage you to edit Syrtis Minor in accord with your own understanding of the facts and sources. You've obviously done due diligence in seeking these out, and while I applaud your effort not to sweep away previous editors' work, I think here you're ready to improve the content, plain and simple. Wareh (talk) 19:54, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Bejnar, thank you for your time and efforts working on this [1]. Unfortunately I'm unable to participate anymore but I know that you guys will work something out and the naming disputes will be just a bad memory. All the best and good luck.--Jacurek (talk) 10:49, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

talk:Reliable sources/Noticeboard

Thanks for the comment and leaving a message on my talk. I don't know how I missed it until now. I've replied on the noticeboard. Blackash have a chat 13:37, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Help creating the last 3 districts of Nuristan?

Greetings, thanks for the help on Nurgaram District. We have three districts of Nuristan without articles; do those fall into your geo interests?

MatthewVanitas (talk) 21:13, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Devanagari fonts

I just noticed your query about displaying stuff in Nepali and Nepal Bhasa in the Bagmati article. It's dated a while back, but nobody responded.

Wikipedia seems to use Unicode, which theoretically covers all the world's writing systems, but you still need to install a font for each writing system you want to be able to read. A font named Mangal works for devanagari, the writing system used for Nepali, Nepal Bhasa, Hindi, Sanskrit and some others. There probably are other fonts that work. Mangal is a simple sans-serif deal analagous to Arial.

By whatever font, devanagari in Unicode may not work right in Windows 98 or earlier, but I think they had things more or less fixed by Windows 2000. Definitely by XP.

If you read non-Wikipedia material in these langauges, sooner or later you will run into pre-Unicode material. There were competing fonts using different coding systems, but a font named "Preeti" caught on in Nepal, so it's a good one to try first with Nepalese material that doesn't display correctly with Unicode.

Cheers, LADave (talk) 09:35, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Free election (Polish throne)

Free election (Polish throne) was moved. Feel free to work on the free election links. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:48, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Category:Free election does seem to be a problem. I'll nominate it at CfD. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:48, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the redirects. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 03:29, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Re: Treaty of the Three Black Eagles

Interesting, I presume you've incorporated that info into the article? It may also be worth copying your note on the article's talk page. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:46, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Kinnikinnick

You converted the redirect at Kinnikinnick to a disambiguation page, but the primary meaning of kinnikinnick is bearberry. See, for example, here and here. The Cornus sericea article does not, at present, mention kinnikinnick at all. Now the smoking mixture of which the primary ingredient was bearberry was called kinnikinnick, and the root meaning of kinnikinnick is mixture, and the bark of Cornus sericea was added, at some times and places to the smoking mixture to mellow out the smoke, but by far and away the primary meaning of kinnikinnick in both smoking and horticultural terms is bearberry, so it is best to handle the issue with a dab hatnote at bearberry, rather than making kinnikinnick a disambiguation page. See Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Is there a primary topic? and Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Disambiguation page or disambiguation links? for where there are only two topics. --Bejnar (talk) 17:53, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

I have added the use of the inner bark in smoking mixtures to the Cornus sericea article with a citation. Given the tangential usage, I am leaning toward just mentioning Cornus sericea in the smoking discussion under bearberry. What do you think? --Bejnar (talk) 18:06, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

In Minnesota and Wisconsin, kinnikinnick refers to Red Osier Dogwood, also known as "Red Willow", not bearberry. You may see kinnikinnick refered this way in these sources:

• Hilger (1951, repr. 1992) Chippewa Child Life and Its Cultural Background, p. 63—"Tobacco used in the early day consisted of the inner bark of red dogwood—Inidans on all reservations called it "red willow."[14] An informant removed the outside bark of a twig with her thumbnail and noted that the remaining layer of bark when carefully shaven off served as tobacco, so-called kinnikinnick. Today kinnikinnick is a mixture of finely crushed inner bark of the red dogwood and shavings of plug tobacco. The mixutrre is worked with a mortar with pestle, both mortar and pestle being of wood. This mixture, too, is used today for ceremonial smoking.

[14] Densmore (1929, p. 145) classified the "red willow" as Cornus stolonifera Michx.

• Warren (1885; repr. 1984) History of the Ojibway people, p. 150—"...and saying that he would go and cut a few sticks of the red willow to smoke...." but when you look up the index on p. 411—Willow trees (Kinnikinnick), as tobacco, 150
• Williamson (1902; repr. 1992) An English-Dakota Dictionary, p. 95—kinnikinic, n. Caŋṡaṡa. (Do an internet search then on "cansasa AND dakota" and take a look at your search results.

In the Ojibwe apaakozigan (mixed tobacco), the giniginigewin (mixture) does not even contain bearberry! But kinnikinnick in other areas of North America definitely does mean "bearberry". More interesting to note is this source that mentions both meanings of kinnikinnick:

• Cutler (2002) Tracks that speak: the legacy of Native American words in North American culture, p. 176. ISBN 0618065105, ISBN 9780618065103

So, I disagree that kinnikinnick referring to Red Osier Dogwood as being tangental, though I would agree the tobacco mixture made from these plants would be tangental use of the word. CJLippert (talk) 20:44, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

• I would still hold that that is a minority (local) use of the word. But does this mean that we should have an article on kinnikinnick as a smoking mixture? I still find knnikinnick used most often for bearberry. Even the Minnesota source cited in the bearberry article admits the inclusion of bearberry in the mixture. --Bejnar (talk) 23:10, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Jazira

Hi, why did you consider the Syriac name of Al_Jazira irrelevant? Did you know that this language has its roots there?--Rafy talk 18:12, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Paracel Islands

It is rather a non-issue, but we could use the word 'administrate' if you like? STSC (talk) 09:36, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Question about Manuel Esperón's page

Hi. On Manuel Esperón's page you said that he wrote the songs "Cocula" and "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" for the film "De tal palo tal astilla". The title song from the Disney film "The Three Caballeros" shares its melody with the song "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" and it is my understanding that "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" was written first. However "The Three Caballeros" was released in 1944 and "De tal palo tal astilla" was released in 1960. Where did you get your information that "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" was written for "De tal palo tal astilla"?--Jpcase (talk) 01:00, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

No, if you look at what it says, it says: "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes! for the 1941 film of the same name," there is a comma and then it says "Cocula for De tal palo tal astilla (1960)". As to source, that sentence is footnoted to the biography by the Sociedad de Autores y Compositores de México (SACM) (Society of Authors and Composers of Mexico), which is available online and is linked from the article. --Bejnar (talk) 00:19, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

The article says that "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" was written for the 1941 film of the same name because I edited the article to say this two days after posting the above question. Before I made this edit the article said that "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" was written for "Cocula". Since I cannot read Spanish I cannot understand what the biography by the Sociedad de Autores y Compositores de México (SACM) (Society of Authors and Composers of Mexico) says about "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!". Does it say that the song was written for "Cocula"?--Jpcase (talk) 02:49, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

The SACM bio says that in 1941 he was awarded the equivalent of the "Ariel" award by the Periodistas y Cinematográficos (Journalists and Cinematographers) for the film Ay Jalisco No Te Rajes. (There are no commas in the Spanish version.) The bio goes on to say that he received a special prize from the Periódico Excélsior (See http://www.excelsior.com.mx) for the song Cocula written for the film El peñón de las ánimas (The Rock of Souls). Earlier in the article it says that the most important films for which Esperón wrote the music were: Nosotros los Pobres, Ustedes los Ricos, Los Tres García, Las Abandonadas, Una Carta de Amor, Me he de Comer esa Tuna, Ojos de Juventud, Yo bailé con Don Porfirio, La muerte enamorada, Gran Casino, Por tu maldito amor and Mi querido viejo. Apparently there is some dispute about which of the many films that contain his music were the most important. See the less than complete list at imdb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0006064/). The film Amor con amor se paga (Love for Love) was released in 1950, whether the song of the same name which Esperón wrote with Ernesto Cortázar, was written for it or not, I haven't seen a source. Although it appears that neither were originally written specifically for the film, both of the songs, !Ay Jalisco, no te rajes and Cocula, occur in the 1960 film De tal palo tal astilla, see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0276898/soundtrack, which may be where the problem originated. --Bejnar (talk) 20:41, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. Let me make sure I understand correctly. The article does not say that "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" or "Cocula" were written for "De tal palo tal astilla", but it does say that "Cocula" was written for "El peñón de las ánimas (The Rock of Souls)". Meanwhile it doesn't specify which movie "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" was written for, but does say that Manuel Esperón recieved an award for the 1941 film of the same name. The reason you said on Manuel Esperón's page that he wrote both songs for "De tal palo tal astilla" was simply a mistake due to the fact that both songs were featured in the film. Is all of this right? Also, I just want to be clear that Amor con amor se paga (1950) has nothing to do with either "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" or "Cocula" and you simply told me about it because you were giving me a complete rundown of the article.--Jpcase (talk) 21:29, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

He did write both songs for the film De tal palo tal astilla, it is a fine point of grammar turning on the ambiguity of the various meanings of the word "for". But you are otherwise correct, in that both songs appear in earlier films. You are also correct that I mentioned Amor con amor se paga because it appears in the same sentence, although it is unrelated to your inquiry. --Bejnar (talk) 05:08, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused now. In what way exactly are you using the word "for"? You simply mean that Manuel Esperón worked on the music for "De tal palo tal astilla" and decided to incorporate two songs that he had already written, into the film, right? That seems like a major technicality to me. Unless you mean that he wrote the songs "for" "De tal palo tal astilla" in some other, more significant way, I think his Wikipedia page should be edited so as not to say that he wrote either song for "De tal palo tal astilla". I've already edited it to say that "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" was written for the 1941 film of the same name, however I don't have any strong references for that information. Do you whether this information is correct or not? As for "Cocula", in the most common sense of the word "for", it was written for "El peñón de las ánimas (The Rock of Souls)", correct?--Jpcase (talk) 17:26, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

You indicate that you understand the situation regarding the timing of the songs by Esperón. There is no source that I have found that says that !Ay Jalisco, no te rajes! was written specially and originally for the 1941 film of that title. That it was part of the music for that film (notice the use of the English word "for") is well established. --Bejnar (talk) 14:14, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

As I said, I do not have any strong references to show that "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" was written for the 1941 film of the same name. However it does seem likely to me that it was written for that film. I also asked the question on this site - http://www.tuvez.com/tu-vez-blast-from-the-past-truck-the-three-caballeros/ - and the response was that it was written for the 1941 film of the same name. I do not know how reliable Jack Tomas is and of course I can't use a comment section as a Wikipedia reference, but it certaintly seems more accurate to me to say that Manuel Esperón wrote "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" for the 1941 film of the same name, than to say that he wrote it for "De tal palo tal astilla". However I suppose we could simply remove "Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes!" from that sentence all together, if we wanted to be absolutely certain of not being inaccurate. As for "Cocula", I'm going to go ahead and change the sentence to say that it was written for "El peñón de las ánimas (The Rock of Souls)".--Jpcase (talk) 18:57, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

thanks!

thank you for creating Mandol District. If you don't know already, there are other Afghan-related articles that could be created (see Wikipedia:Requested articles/Afghanistan). Kingturtle = (talk) 16:20, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

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List of American gentlemen's clubs

Your attention is called to a requested change in name of the above article. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 22:15, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

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