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Tucker Carlson's interview with Vladimir Putin

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For 2017 television series, see The Putin Interviews.
"The Vladimir Putin Interview"
The Tucker Carlson Interview episode
Carlson and Putin during the interview
Episode no.Episode 74
Presented byTucker Carlson
Original air dateFebruary 8, 2024 (2024-02-08)
Guest appearance
Vladimir Putin

"The Vladimir Putin Interview" is a television interview hosted by the American journalist and political commentator Tucker Carlson with the president of Russia, Vladimir Putin. It premiered on February 8, 2024, on the Tucker Carlson Network and the social media website X (Twitter). It is the first interview with Putin to be granted to a Western journalist since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. Historians have pointed out the many falsehoods in Putin's statements.

Background

Tucker Carlson is an American journalist and political commentator known for promoting conspiracy theories.[1] Carlson said before the interview, "We are not here because we love Vladimir Putin. We are here because we love the United States."[2] Carlson has defended Putin and has promoted pro-Russian disinformation about the Russian invasion of Ukraine,[3][4] including the Ukraine bioweapons conspiracy theory.[5] From 2016 to 2023, Carlson hosted the Fox News program Tucker Carlson Tonight, a talk show in which he was critical of Ukraine, such as describing its president since 2019, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, as a "dictator". In April 2023, Carlson was dismissed from Fox News. He then established Tucker on X. The first episode attributed the destruction of the Kakhovka Dam to Ukraine.[6]

Putin has instituted restrictions on press freedom in Russia. In March 2023, the Russian government imprisoned an American journalist, Evan Gershkovich of The Wall Street Journal, on charges of espionage. Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Putin had not granted an interview to any Western journalist.[7] The Kremlin Press Secretary, Dmitry Peskov, said Carlson had been allowed an interview because "his position is different" saying, "It's not pro-Russian, not pro-Ukrainian, it's pro-American. It starkly contrasts with the stance of traditional Anglo-Saxon media."[8]

Production

The filming scene during the interview

According to Izvestia, Carlson arrived in Moscow on February 3.[9] His presence was reported upon by the Russian state media, which speculated that Carlson may have been in the country to interview Putin. Carlson appeared at the Bolshoi Theatre to attend a performance of the ballet Spartacus.[10] According to Putin's press secretary, Dmitry Peskov, the interview occurred on February 6.[7]

Interview summary

The interview began with Carlson asking Putin why he had ordered the invasion of Ukraine. Putin replied with a "history lecture" lasting around thirty minutes, giving his vision of the history of Eastern Europe from the founding of Kievan Rus' in the 9th century.[11] Putin said that Poland "collaborated with [Adolf] Hitler" before it was invaded by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union in 1939.[12] He said that Poland provoked Nazi Germany to invade, because the Poles "went too far" by refusing Hitler's demands for Polish territory.[12] He justified the current invasion, in part, due to Ukraine's historic and ethnic relationship with Russia and Ukraine's alleged lack of cultural identity and territorial cohesion. He also called Ukraine "an artificial state, established by Stalin's will" and asserted that Ukraine's southern and eastern regions "had no historical connection" with it.[13][12] He also blamed the war on Ukraine's alleged refusal to implement the Minsk II agreement.[13]

Putin repeated some statements he made in his speech announcing the invasion: that the 2014 Ukrainian Revolution was a "CIA-backed coup d'état",[14] that Ukraine started the Donbas war, that Ukraine's government has ties with neo-Nazis, and that NATO would threaten Russia through Ukraine.[15][16]

When asked whether Russia had achieved its war aims, Putin replied: "No. We haven't achieved our aims yet because one of them is denazification." When Carlson asked whether Putin would "be satisfied" with the territory that Russia currently occupies, Putin avoided the question and referred to his previous answer.[17] Putin indicated that he is ready to negotiate with the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who had issued a decree prohibiting negotiations with Putin. Putin urged him to reverse that decision.[18] Putin asserted that Ukraine and its allies would not succeed in inflicting a "strategic defeat" on Russia.[16] He predicted that if the United States stopped supplying weaponry to Ukraine, the war would "be over within a few weeks"[19] and suggested that the US could signal it wanted to end the war by stopping the supply of aid. However, Putin expressed no hope that the Russia–US relationship would regenerate with a new American president following the 2024 elections since, in his view, it is about the mentality of the elites.[20][13]

Putin conveyed to Carlson that Russia has no intention of attacking NATO members Poland or Latvia, unless they attacked Russia.[21]

Putin suggested that the U.S. government is secretly controlled by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), rather than its elected officials.[22] He also portrayed Russia as a victim of Western betrayals, and blamed the United States and the West for the 2022 Nord Stream pipeline sabotage and prolongation of the war, respectively.[20][17][13] At a point during the interview, he said that he had asked the former U.S. president Bill Clinton whether Russia could join the NATO alliance, but that after Clinton spoke with his advisors he replied to Putin with a "no". Putin stated that he wasn't welcome there and that, despite "promises", NATO kept expanding eastwards, including to Ukraine, something he said Russia never accepted. He further said that Russia had archived a statement by the CIA admitting that it was supporting opposition groups to Russia in the Caucasus.[13]

At the end of the interview, Carlson asked whether Putin would release Evan Gershkovich, an American journalist detained in Russia on charges of espionage, into his custody as an act of goodwill. Putin suggested that he was willing to exchange Gershkovich for a Russian "patriot" who had "eliminated a bandit" in a European capital. This seemed to confirm that Russia was demanding a prisoner swap with Vadim Krasikov, a suspected Russian intelligence agent who assassinated a Chechen separatist in Berlin in 2019.[15][23] Both men were later released in the 2024 Russian prisoner exchange.[24]

Analysis of the interview

Various media outlets reported that Putin made many false claims and misleading statements during the interview, and that Carlson failed to properly challenge him. They noted that Carlson did not ask Putin about alleged Russian war crimes in Ukraine, ongoing Russian missile strikes on Ukrainian civilian targets, or Putin's repression of political dissent.[15][17][16] Oliver Darcy of CNN wrote, "Carlson provided Putin a platform to spread his propaganda to a global audience with little to no scrutiny of his claims" and had "even fed into Putin's narratives" in some cases.[22]

The website Polygraph.info, produced by Voice of America, contested several of Putin's allegations about the Russo-Ukrainian conflict. It rejected that the 2014 revolution was a "coup", saying that Ukraine's then-President Viktor Yanukovych was not overthrown by the military, but instead "abandoned his post and fled to Russia amid mass protests". It also said, "Russia started the war on Ukraine in 2014" when it occupied Crimea and secretly sent military units to seize government buildings in Donbas.[25]

The New York Times's Peter Baker compared the interview to the objections over monetary assistance to Ukraine in the Emergency National Security Supplemental Appropriations Act made by some U.S. Republican Party politicians.[26] Former Financial Times editor Lionel Barber—who interviewed Putin in July 2019— told Politico Magazine he believed that Putin leveraged Carlson's sympathy for Russia.[27]

Historians who spoke to the BBC said that Putin's historical narrative was selective and misleading. Rejecting Putin's statement that Ukraine is "artificial", the historian Sergey Radchenko said "countries are created as a result of a historical process ... If Ukraine is a 'fake country', then so is Russia."[12] The historian Robert D. English said the interview "showed that it wasn't Russian insecurity, but Putin's personal imperialism, that motivated the war".[28]

Professor Timothy Snyder of Yale University, a historian specializing in the history of Central and Eastern Europe, said "[m]ost of what Putin says about the past is ludicrous".[29] Snyder argues that Putin's "kind of story" brings war since by Putin's standards "no borders" of any state would be "legitimate" because anybody might claim foreign territory based on borders of arbitrarily chosen dates in the past.[30] Snyder also says that Putin's "false distinction between natural nations and artificial nations" brings genocide because in Putin's logic "artificial" nations have no right to exist.[31] In addition to war and genocide, Snyder analyzes fascism as the third "horror" justified by Putin's thoughts,[32] stating that "Putin’s war has been fought with fascist slogans and by fascist means".[33]

Reaction

In the first three days, the interview had 14 million views on YouTube and 185 million views on Twitter.[34][35]

When Carlson announced on February 6 that he would interview Putin, he erroneously stated that no journalist outside of Russia had "bothered to interview" Putin during the war, and said "most Americans have no idea why Putin invaded Ukraine."[26] Some American and European journalists disputed this, and said that they had repeatedly been denied interviews with Putin, and that some had been expelled or banned from Russia. They also noted that Putin's speeches had been widely covered in American media.[8]

In a podcast conducted with Lex Fridman following the interview, Carlson described Putin's justification of "denazification" as "one of the dumbest things I'd ever heard," and likened Putin's conduct as akin to "an over-prepared student."[36]

Reaction in the United States

The former U.S. representative Adam Kinzinger referred to Carlson as a "traitor", while the representative Marjorie Taylor Greene praised Carlson's decision.[7] The former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton described Carlson as a "useful idiot"; a phrase that is frequently erroneously attributed to Vladimir Lenin, the first leader of the Soviet Union. On MSNBC, Clinton again criticized Carlson by stating that there are individuals who serve as a "fifth column" for Putin, alluding to Carlson.[26][37]

Carlson was criticized further after the death of the prominent Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny in a Russian prison several days after the interview. The American politician Liz Cheney called Carlson "Putin's useful idiot".[38][39]

Reaction in Russia

Dmitry Medvedev, the deputy chairman of the Security Council of Russia and Putin's predecessor as president, commented that Putin "told the Western world as thoroughly and in detail as possible why Ukraine did not exist, does not exist, and will not exist. Tucker Carlson did not get scared and did not give up."[40][41]

Other reactions

Guy Verhofstadt, the prime minister of Belgium from 1999 to 2008, wrote that the European Union (EU) ought to consider issuing Carlson with a travel restriction should he amplify Putin's message. Peter Stano, a spokesperson for the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Josep Borrell, stated that the EU was not considering sanctions against Carlson, despite rumours from Elon Musk and other individuals.[42]

Tsakhia Elbegdorj, the former President of Mongolia, posted on X a map of the Mongol Empire which included and encompassed all of Russia, saying "After Putin's talk. I found Mongolian historic map. Don't worry. We are a peaceful and free nation."[43][44]

The Russian opposition activist and journalist Yevgenia Albats said that hundreds of Russian journalists were compelled to flee Russia after the Russian invasion of Ukraine and to go into exile "to keep reporting about the Kremlin's war against Ukraine. The alternative was to go to jail. And now [Tucker Carlson] is teaching us about good journalism, shooting from the $1000 Ritz suite in Moscow."[45]

See also

References

  1. ^ Nina Barth (February 9, 2024). "Putin-Interview: "Wir haben Verhandlungen nie abgelehnt"". tagesschau.de (in German). Retrieved February 9, 2024. Der 54-jährige Carlson ist für die Verbreitung von Verschwörungstheorien bekannt [54-year-old Carlson is known for spreading conspiracy theories]
  2. ^ "Tucker Carlson Says He's Interviewing Vladimir Putin Because 'Corrupt' Media Outlets That 'Lie' Have Not". Variety. February 6, 2024.
  3. ^ "Who is Tucker Carlson really 'rooting for' in Ukraine?". The Guardian. October 2, 2022.
  4. ^ Wemple, Erik (February 25, 2022). "How did Tucker Carlson turn into a Putin apologist?". The Washington Post.
  5. ^ Thomas, Elise (October 10, 2023). "Why Russia Embraces Tucker Carlson". The Moscow Times.
  6. ^ Ilyushina, Mary (September 25, 2023). "Tucker Carlson finds a new booster: Russian TV". The Washington Post. Retrieved February 8, 2024.
  7. ^ a b c Troianovski, Anton; Rutenberg, Jim; Sonne, Paul (February 6, 2024). "Tucker Carlson Says His Putin Interview Will Be Shown on Thursday". The New York Times. Retrieved February 8, 2024.
  8. ^ a b Chiappa, Claudia (February 7, 2024). "Tucker Carlson faces media fury over Putin interview". Politico Europe. Retrieved February 28, 2024.
  9. ^ Palmeri, Christopher (February 6, 2024). "Tucker Carlson Has Interviewed Putin in Moscow, Kremlin Says". Bloomberg News. Retrieved February 8, 2024.
  10. ^ Rutenberg, Jim; Mazaeva, Milana (February 5, 2024). "Tucker Carlson's Visit to Russia Draws Speculation of Putin Interview". The New York Times. Retrieved February 8, 2024.
  11. ^ Wendling, Mike (February 8, 2024). "Putin interview released by ex-Fox host Tucker Carlson". BBC News. Retrieved February 8, 2024.
  12. ^ a b c d Vock, Ido (February 9, 2024). "Tucker Carlson interview: Fact-checking Putin's 'nonsense' history". BBC News.
  13. ^ a b c d e Galão, Fábio (February 8, 2024). "Em entrevista a Tucker Carlson, Putin chama Ucrânia de "Estado artificial" e culpa Ocidente por guerra" [In an interview with Tucker Carlson, Putin calls Ukraine an "artificial state" and blames the West for war]. Gazeta do Povo (in Brazilian Portuguese). Archived from the original on February 24, 2024. Retrieved February 24, 2024.
  14. ^ Gustaf, Kilander (February 9, 2024). "Putin mocks Tucker Carlson over his failed attempt to join CIA". The New York Times. Retrieved June 1, 2024.
  15. ^ a b c Rainsford, Sarah (February 9, 2024). "Tucker Carlson: Putin takes charge as TV host gives free rein to Kremlin". BBC News.
  16. ^ a b c "Putin uses Tucker Carlson interview to press his Ukraine narrative, hints at swapping WSJ reporter". Associated Press. February 9, 2024.
  17. ^ a b c Hartog, Eva; Goryashko, Sergey (February 9, 2024). "Tucker Carlson's Putin interview: 9 takeaways". Politico Europe. Retrieved February 23, 2024.
  18. ^ "Putin is ready for talks on Ukraine, but on his own terms". Al Jazeera. February 12, 2024.
  19. ^ Gabbatt, Adam; Roth, Andrew (February 9, 2024). "Putin tells Tucker Carlson the US 'needs to stop supplying weapons' to Ukraine". The Guardian. Retrieved February 23, 2024.
  20. ^ a b "Em entrevista, Putin diz que é 'impossível' derrotar a Rússia na Ucrânia" [In interview, Putin says it is 'impossible' to defeat Russia in Ukraine]. O Globo (in Brazilian Portuguese). AFP. February 9, 2024. Archived from the original on February 24, 2024. Retrieved February 24, 2024.
  21. ^ "Putin Says Russia Has No Interest In Invading Poland, Latvia". NDTV.com. Retrieved February 10, 2024.
  22. ^ a b Darcy, Oliver (February 9, 2024). "Putin walks away with propaganda victory after Tucker Carlson's softball interview". CNN.
  23. ^ Cullison, Alan; Luxmoore, Matthew (February 8, 2024). "Putin Tells Tucker Carlson He Is Open to Exchange of WSJ's Evan Gershkovich for Russian Prisoner". The Wall Street Journal. Retrieved February 8, 2024.
  24. ^ Kottasová, Ivana (August 1, 2024). "Who was freed in major prisoner swap between Russia and the West?". CNN. Archived from the original on August 12, 2024. Retrieved August 16, 2024.
  25. ^ "Putin's Talk with Tucker Carlson... and America: A Mixture of Blunt Lies and Toxic Propaganda". Polygraph.info. February 9, 2024.
  26. ^ a b c Baker, Peter (February 8, 2024). "Trump, Putin, Carlson and the Shifting Sands of Today's American Politics". The New York Times. Retrieved February 8, 2024.
  27. ^ Reynolds, Maura (February 8, 2024). "What Putin Wants to Get Out of Tucker Carlson". Politico Magazine. Retrieved February 8, 2024.
  28. ^ Snodgrass, Erin; Vlamis, Kelsey (February 13, 2024). "Russia historians say the Tucker Carlson interview solidified one thing about Putin — he's off the rails". Business Insider. Retrieved February 28, 2024.
  29. ^ Snyder, Timothy (February 12, 2024). "Opinion: Putin's Genocidal Myth". Kyiv Post. Retrieved February 19, 2024. Most of what Putin says about the past is ludicrous; but even had he said some true things, that would not justify destroying the international order, invading neighbors, and committing genocide.
  30. ^ Snyder, Timothy (February 12, 2024). "Opinion: Putin's Genocidal Myth". Kyiv Post. Retrieved February 21, 2024. Putin provides various dates to make various claims. Anyone can do that about any territory. So the first implication of Putin's view is that no borders are legitimate, including the borders of your own country.
  31. ^ Snyder, Timothy (February 12, 2024). "Opinion: Putin's Genocidal Myth". Kyiv Post. Retrieved February 21, 2024. In the interview, and in other speeches during the war, Putin depends on a false distinction between natural nations and artificial nations. Natural nations have a right to exist, artificial ones do not.
  32. ^ Snyder, Timothy (February 12, 2024). "Opinion: Putin's Genocidal Myth". Kyiv Post. Retrieved February 21, 2024. By 'why' I mean the horror inherent in the kind of story he is telling. It brings war, genocide, and fascism.
  33. ^ Snyder, Timothy (February 12, 2024). "Opinion: Putin's Genocidal Myth". Kyiv Post. Retrieved February 21, 2024. Putin's story divides good and evil perfectly. Russia is always right, others are always wrong. Russians can behave like Nazis while calling others "Nazis" and all is well. Russia is a people with a special purpose, resisted by conspiracies. Putin's war has been fought with fascist slogans and by fascist means, with mass propaganda and mass mobilization.
  34. ^ Exclusive: Tucker Carlson Interviews Vladimir Putin
  35. ^ Ep. 73 The Vladimir Putin Interview
  36. ^ Lewis, Kaitlin (February 29, 2024). "Tucker Carlson throws Putin under the bus". Newsweek. Retrieved March 10, 2024.
  37. ^ Troianovski, Anton (February 8, 2024). "Putin Calls on U.S. to 'Negotiate' on Ukraine in Tucker Carlson Interview". The New York Times. Retrieved February 8, 2024.
  38. ^ Rutenberg, Jim; Grynbaum, Michael M. (February 16, 2024). "Tucker Carlson's Lesson in the Perils of Giving Airtime to an Autocrat". The New York Times. Retrieved February 17, 2024.
  39. ^ Johnson, Ted (February 17, 2024). "Tucker Carlson Condemns Alexei Navalny's Death As "Barbaric" Days After Trumpeting Vladimir Putin's Russia". Deadline. Retrieved February 17, 2024.
  40. ^ "Medvedev commented on Putin's interview with American journalist Carlson". Oreanda News. February 9, 2023.
  41. ^ Luxmoore, Matthew (February 9, 2024). "What Did Putin Gain From Sitting Down With Tucker Carlson?". The Wall Street Journal. Retrieved February 23, 2024.
  42. ^ Kilander, Gustaf (February 8, 2024). "EU denies claim Tucker Carlson faces sanctions over Putin interview". The Independent. Retrieved February 8, 2024.
  43. ^ Naughton, Philippe (February 12, 2024). "Our Empire Was Bigger Than Yours, Mongol Leader Taunts Putin". The Daily Beast. Retrieved February 15, 2024.
  44. ^ Baker, Sinéad (February 12, 2024). "Mongolia's former president mocks Putin with a map showing how big the Mongol empire used to be, and how small Russia was". Business Insider. Retrieved February 15, 2024.
  45. ^ "Tucker Carlson interviews Vladimir Putin: What's the controversy about?". Al Jazeera. February 8, 2024.
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