Talk:Zome (architecture)

Revision

I cleaned this up a little and wrote more details on the mathematics of Zome. This material would be enhanced with some nice graphics, at the very least illustrating a single Zome connector. Someone should include more historical details, perhaps in the introductory section; someone might want to add to the section on other uses of Zome. The distinction between Zometool and Baer's Zome is probably a good place to split the article in two. Davidarichter 01:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Split

The article should be split into two articles as soon as it leaves stub status (maybe before)… One article for Zometool, another for Steve Baer's concept of Zome. –Wulf 00:39, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but I don't know how to do that. Does anyone else? RobertAustin 04:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

But, on the other hand: a) there is a historical link between the two (and, after all, they've used the same name for both); and b) the fact that Baer (and various Zome-constructing 'followers') have been able to actually construct durable buildings by using these unusual geometries demonstrates a real-world application for what can be learned using the Zometool. Joel Russ 14:36, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

The lead section of the article is pretty confusing as it stands. The WP:LEAD should give a brief and concise summary of the topic, but this has elements of a disambiguation. --George100 (talk) 11:38, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Zome-toy sets - advertising??

The recent inclusion of material about the Zome-toy sets (including pricing... and wording that reads as promotional) sounds like advertising. Was it lifted from an ad or catalogue? It doesn't read like neutral point of view. Seems inappropriate.

That's because it was. Whoever included it copied it right off the Zometool website… I've removed it now. –Wulf 00:51, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Diagram

We should have a diagram of the Zome system. Zome has one somewhat like what I'm thinking of (JPEG, sadly) on their site at http://www.zometool.com/model-of-month/mzb/MZBPartLists/B1.B2.B3.Y1.Y2.Y3.R0.R1.R2..jpg. I'm imagining something like they have, but including all the green struts, and with nodes with the various shapes highlighted alongside their respective struts. Preferably in SVG format. Anybody up to the challenge? –Wulf 04:12, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

compound of five cubes picture

This is a beautiful pic, but it could use a little more explanation. The compound of five cubes is simply the blue figure shown, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure what to call the red or yellow figures that are entertwined with the blue. RobertAustin 04:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Unreadable section

The entire "A definition of the Zome system" is composed in majority of error messages in bold red text. It shoud be fixed or removed completely.

Thinking that the fault might be with my browser, I have tried reading it with other browsers. They have all (Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Opera)failed to do so and they all give the same bold red error messages. This is an example of the beginning of the many error messages that make up the secton:

Failed to parse (Cannot write to or create math output directory)

--AlainV (talk) 01:34, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Zometool and Synestructics compared

Synestructics is a construction set invented by Peter Pearce and described in his wonderful book Structure in Nature is a Strategy for Design. Synestructics resembles Zometool superficially, but is designed around the symmetry axes of cube rather than the icosahedron, so it cannot make pentagonal structures. http://www.georgehart.com/virtual-polyhedra/synestructics.html

What is the best way to integrate the above information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.157.209.66 (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

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Inline Citations

This article is well-written and has good references, but it lacks inline citations (except for the two in the lead, which need to be formatted with more details). -JJMM (talk) 01:33, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

For further clarification, this article has a general reference section and inline citations from those references would allow for better verification. According to WP:GENREF:

"A general reference is a citation to a reliable source that supports content, but is not linked to any particular piece of material in the article through an inline citation...A general references section may also be included in an article that will eventually use inline citations throughout if such citations have not yet been given for all the information in the article. In underdeveloped articles, a general references section may exist even though no inline citations at all have yet been added, especially when all article content is supported by a single source. The disadvantage of using general references alone is that text–source integrity is lost, unless the article is very short."

For information on adding inline citations, see WP:IC.

This article needs to be split

This article needs to be split into Zome and ZomeTool. Born25121642 (talk) 01:27, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

It seems fine to me; the toy is not necessarily encyclopedic or noteworthy independent of the mathematical system, and the two articles would be about 70% identical content. –jacobolus (t) 02:46, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Okay, thinking about this more, I think there should be a split, but the article entitled Zome should be about the mathematical concept (including discussion of Zometool), and information about general not-quit-domelike buildings should be split into some other page, maybe Zome (architecture) or the like. –jacobolus (t) 01:27, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

If nobody has any input about this by the next time I think about it, I'll probably do a split between Zome as a geometric system vs. Zome (architecture) as a building design/construction method. –jacobolus (t) 21:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Move Zometool to new article..

I any wants to help add citations there, that could be helpful:

Zometool (Construction Toy Set) Starlighsky (talk) 19:10, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I moved this to Zome (architecture). Judging by available reliable sources, the geometric concept is by now the primary / most common meaning of the word, and should be hosted at Zome. I'll move that content there when I get the chance. The geometric concept should not be subordinated to an article about the Zometool company. –jacobolus (t) 21:51, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I was only following what was requested on the Talk page.

Those who think it is a separate article have good point. There are two conflicting origins for the for "Zome" in architecture and the mathematics teaching tool (Zome construction toy set).

The mathematics teaching tool is associated with very complicated mathematics. Starlighsky (talk) 00:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Could we vote on this? Starlighsky (talk) 00:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

A "vote" is not helpful. What we need is consensus; feel free to advocate for your preferred end state, and try to convince other editors to support it. –jacobolus (t) 02:25, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. Starlighsky (talk) 03:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

My intention is to move the discussion of the mathematical "zome" back to zome (which is currently a redirect), leave zome (architecture) to discuss buildings, and let Zometool be cover the company and its plastic construction toy. I'm a bit disappointed that you did this split in a only half-finished way though. When you split an article you have to follow through and move all of the relevant text, sources, etc. to the separate pages. –jacobolus (t) 02:24, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I did. I split it effectively into 3 articles, each one with relevant text. However, it seemed best to make the mathematics article a redirect to the learning tool with the mathematics included. Without the tool information, it is difficult for readers to follow the math. Starlighsky (talk) 03:17, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Starlighsky Do you have any experience with zome buildings, Zometool, or Zome the geometry of a lattice with icosahedral symmetry? Have you done any reading about this topic? Did you try reading the references which were previously linked and/or other sources about this? Do you have further plans to improve these articles?

In general, it's a good idea to familiarize yourself with a topic to the extent you can before trying to make substantial changes to the inter- and intra-article organization of the relevant Wikipedia articles. –jacobolus (t) 03:26, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I am familiar with topics which were both created by Baer. I added the missing citations to the architecture article. I do not see any inline citations outside of the architecture. I was focused on the mathematics in terms of inline citations, which is very challenging with the Further Reading section. Starlighsky (talk) 03:33, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I'll do my best to rewrite the sections about the mathematics of zome, at the title zome, when I get the chance. I wish you had waited though, as I have a number of other projects I am in the middle of at the moment. –jacobolus (t) 03:45, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

On the bright side, I just added inline citations about the creators of Zometool, Baer et al. Starlighsky (talk) 04:05, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Note that this is a conference paper:

Buhler-Allen, Amina (2019). "21st Century Space Frame System". Hyperseeing 2018: Proceedings of SMI FASE (PDF). SMI Fabrication & Sculpting Event, Lisbon, 6–8 June 2018. International Society of the Arts, Mathematics, and Architecture.

It's important to make full citations with the metadata filled in, not just the title and a URL. –jacobolus (t) 04:28, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I will fix it then. Starlighsky (talk) 04:31, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I believe that I had just improved the mathematics section to a level where it should be:

Zometool#Mathematics of Zometools Starlighsky (talk) 13:35, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

What do you mean "level where it should be"?

Anyhow, I'll write the start of a proper zome article explaining the geometry when I get the chance (it might be a few days or weeks), which can go into significantly more depth about the mathematics. The section of Zometool can provide more summary of e.g. subjects Zometool the construction toy can be used to study in school; for some examples see the book Zome Geometry by George Hart and Henri Picciotto. –jacobolus (t) 20:09, 30 January 2024 (UTC)