Talk:Yellow vests protests/Archive 1

Archive 1

Yellow Jackets movement

I see this has been renamed while the press is alternating between "yellow jacket" and "yellow vest". I wonder why there is such a rush to rename rather than to add to the content, when both so are widely attested? — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 16:51, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm just plain confused. I made a few edits trying to make the content more cohesive, but it's kind of a mess and I don't even know what name to stick by.--Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 17:12, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Have added a few more references that try to understand the movement rather than just listing how many people were injured. Both references I added used the term "yellow jackets" which is a catchier, zippier name. If those who have not edited the entry could respect the BRD process by discussing here before moving it anywhere new that would be great! — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 19:50, 1 December 2018 (UTC):

Curses! Renamed again, ignoring the talk page entirely. Again, @Mélencron: hisself. Mr. Mélencron, I would respectfully submit that there are rulez on en.wp that are supposed to be respected. Running reg-ex replacements through citation templates is definitely a no-no. I would argue, too, that forcing contributors to use your preferred, ennobling term for a popular movement is probably not warranted. Within the text people should be free to follow the press (like The Mercury News which went from calling them yellow vests earlier to calling them yellow jackets now (see references in the article). The MSM will succeed in taming the natural "populist" translation, so I will not revert you again. In re: the MOS question, please see the Black Panther Party. I would request that you become more communicative and less aloof in your approach to editing in concert with others. If you wish to rename all the occurrences of "yellow jackets" in the text to "yellow vests", that I guess is your stylistic choice. I do know that most French teachers I know would not approve of such a redundant writing style. — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 21:01, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

@SashiRolls: I concur with what SashiRolls says, I believe "Yellow jackets movement" is the suitable general name to be used in the article based on the sources we have. Overall though, the writing of the article should be tidied up, and Sashi has done quite well with that so far. Also more info about the spillover into Italy, and if there has been any connected in parallels in even more countries, would be very good-Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 21:34, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

RfC for name and such

@SashiRolls:, @Mélencron:: I have no experience with this, but perhaps one of you could open an RfC to settle the name dispute here and to help address the Multiple Issues I tagged on top? If not, that's fine, it is just an idea to help initiate this article getting tidy and updated.--Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 21:40, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Nah, let's clean up the content rather than fighting about the name. I'm going to bale for a while, will come back later. Others should feel free to add their 2 cents. That's how this place is supposed to work. I've given it a pretty lazy once-over. Mélencron is a good writer/editor, I've seen them work, they should feel welcome here too. First we can work this out on the talk page, I think, and see how it develops. WP:NODEADLINE, WP:NOTNEWS, etc.— 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 21:56, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

I did what I could for cleanup. On a lighter ^(jazz) note: as a non-native English speaker, I discover only now that PETA sees the yellowjacket as a social wasp species that should be treated humanely, whereas others describe them as predators... Wakari07 (talk) 22:29, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Yellow jackets in Holland?

I found two articles apparently talking about yellow jacket protests that sprung up in the Netherlands, for example in the city of Maastricht. Should this be added to the article The two links, @SashiRolls:

• [1]
• [2]

--Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 00:37, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, Sigehelmus, I don't read Dutch. I'm sure someone does though. — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 00:43, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

There are also sources in English language, for instance: [3]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.193.103.88 (talk) 12:11, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

As of right now, I don't think the Dutch branch is noteworthy. More then a short mention that the basic idea has spread seems unwarrented.80.65.103.177 (talk) 18:48, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Road safety Removed section

One section related to road safety has been removed. Here it is:

According to SANEF motorway operator, drivers should caution should be taken when approaching pedestrians and sudden stops in traffic on motorways.]]

The reason for the removal was: "Removed section that only stated an opinion as if it was fact." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.193.103.88 (talk) 19:23, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

It might be an opinion, but this generated one fatality. [4]. The fatality occurred on the Contournement d'Arles or Arles bypass (motorway). And one fatality is one fact, not an opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.193.103.88 (talk) 19:34, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Working at it. Thanks. — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 01:41, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Globalism

To redden the soon sanguinary dispute about whether to add globulism on the page somewhere... here's the link that got eaten in my ES. Perhaps there are others in English? [5] — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 02:28, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

There are no global factors involved. France is way over there. Wait are you talking about the good globalism that gets cheese from Switzerland, or the bad globalism that gets taxes from England? -Inowen (nlfte) 03:40, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Reputed academic attached to respectable institute writing on undisputed news website says otherwise. What is our source? Wakari07 (talk) 17:40, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

@SashiRolls: A lot of users may not like the term being used, but if this source claims it well, WP:BOLD! Also someone removed a cause of Euroscepticism as quoted in the lower part of the article (in Italy at least) -Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 04:02, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

I think this naming "battle" probably isn't that crucial to the entry. Will the compromise link to Globalization make everyone happy? The link I found to try to calm the debate only talks about mondialisation not néolibéralisme / néolibérale / néolib*, so should not be used as a source for "neoliberalism". — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 11:48, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Does the sequence of events: Khashoggi murdered → US pressure on Saudi Arabia → US fuel prices drop below $2 gallon → France fuel prices jump, match up time-wise with a theory that Saudi Arabia is currently gouging France in the wake of the US price discount? Globalism is theorized. The fuel cost graph doesn't show any spiking. Is there a general policy of charging France more for fuel? Is there a preference toward gouging less powerful states? Gouging democracies? -Inowen (nlfte) 01:20, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

@SashiRolls: If we only have one source talking about this - are we sure that this is something we want to include in the causes? It seems to be far more strongly about taxation than 'globalism'. I'm not sure it's WP:DUE - we don't really have any content talking about globalism in the article either. PeterTheFourth (talk) 13:13, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

The article is an interview with an economist developing an analysis that "mondialisation" (better translated by "globalization") is a key process that leads to productivity imbalance and income inequality. People are feeling left behind and want to be heard. French sociologist Christophe Guilluy is also mentioned in this source: he describes the people on the "other side" of this fracture as "la France périphérique" (sub-class, peripheral France). And the Macron government is seen by them, a majority, as "overwhelmingly favoring a minority of wealthy people", as convincingly sourced in the "Background" section below. High taxes and low purchasing power are both issues to the protest: but to put food on the family table, lower taxes are a less immediate issue than higher purchasing power. Wakari07 (talk) 16:07, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Also I removed "neo-liberalism" as a cause since the source didn't mention it directly. But it's closely related to globalization. Wakari07 (talk) 15:58, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

@Wakari07: @SashiRolls: This Turkish article also cites globalism as a cause of the protests.-Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 16:47, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Note that both additional sources are (The American Conservative moderately, Yeni Şafak more pronouncedly) conservative, rightist publications. The French Wikipedia describes our current source, w:fr:Atlantico, as "« grand public », généralement classé à droite" (attending a general public, generally classified to the right). But, somewhat paradoxically, the criticism of "disconnected elites" ends up similar. Wakari07 (talk) 17:50, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

@Sigehelmus: The article also says imperialism and capitalism are causes, but for some reason we're not using those and are using an anti-semitic dogwhistle. PeterTheFourth (talk) 20:29, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

@PeterTheFourth: There are lots of articles talking about globalization & neoliberalism. Apparently, "globalism" is a new way of spinning globalization (mondialisation). There are plenty of op-eds and interviews talking about how neoliberalism caused the yellow vests movement in Left-leaning papers: e.g. [6] & [7] My impression is that deciding which -ism to blame for the loss of purchasing power since the Lehmann Brothers crash is mostly a matter of personal preference. Mine would probably be economism / neoliberalism. The fact that the symbol of the movement is a uniform all European drivers are required to buy, and that most of them are made in China suggests that globalization might be involved too. What's your favorite -ism, Peter? Maybe we could find a place to fit it in too (as long as it has something to do with workers making ends meet). One thing that's sure is that Macron does not want to go back on the suppression on the special tax bracket for the upper class (the so called impôt de solidarité sur la fortune: cf. [8]... — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 18:17, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure we should be citing either 'neoliberalism' or 'globalism' as causes. If we are going to cite 'globalism', we should instead write 'globalization' - globalism is a term [...] used by detractors of globalization such as right-wing populist movements. PeterTheFourth (talk) 20:11, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Well, I suppose it will depend whether RS use those terms beyond interviews and op-eds or not. It is clear, however, that the suppression of the ISF is one of the rallying causes: [9] "Depuis le début du mouvement, sa réintroduction immédiate fait partie des revendications des manifestants. « Paie ton ISF ! », clamaient plusieurs d’entre eux en descendant les Champs-Elysées, lors de la manifestation du 17 novembre.". — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 20:37, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

@SashiRolls: I just did a swift search of @PeterTheFourth: out of odd curiosity, and it appears he has a charged and controversial reputation. Going back a few years even he has been accused of being a Single-Purpose Account, inter alia, and his edits seem to be consistently aligned towards contemporary Western social-political movements, particularly against those that may be associated with conservative/populist sentiment. I would interpret his grievances with a grain of salt, personally. I intend no ill will whatsoever, just offering a clarification of context of said grievances. There seems to be a lot of discussion on his behavior on this Wiki and other sites, for quite a long time. Again, no offense or conflict wanted, but I deemed it necessary here. WP:AGF balanced just with a touch of WP:SPADE....Edit: I'm sure he is a lovely person and he has a voice,but there is a reasonable chance he is consciously expressing personal bias in accordance to his behavior. This is my first time ever mentioning such a thing, forgive me.-Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 21:52, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Yikes. Remind me to never make change suggestions on talk pages again. Fucks sake. PeterTheFourth (talk) 22:08, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

@PeterTheFourth: Ah, this was was a response I feared. Firstly please control your tone and language. Peter, you have no reason to be hesitant, but I would not have felt comfortable mentioning the context I felt necessary. Furthermore, your interests are your interests, but in light of your past at least try to diversify your activity beyond what can lead to more threads about your perceived bias/SPA. I am not confirming nor denying anything, and I lend you an olive branch of goodwill. Just to mention something lastly back to topic, I am searching for more sources myself.-Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 22:17, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

@Sigehelmus: Control your tone and language: What are you, a kindergarten teacher? Control how creepy and weird you act, dude. PeterTheFourth (talk) 22:23, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

@PeterTheFourth: Needless vulgarity and emotional reaction≈s are generally frowned upon here; you ought to know that by now. I am being civil and just raised a reasonable concern, while you have reacted twice emotionally and uncivil. I would not like to do it, but if you do not adopt a more proper, team-player attitude I'm going to have to report you, further corroborating your reputation.-Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 22:28, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Get a load of this fucking guy. PeterTheFourth (talk) 22:33, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

I am normally quite patient, but I can not withstand this kind of behavior. I have been civil and you've been rude and ridiculous and against the spirit of this site. You're lucky I don't know how to report you actually......but someone else will! Maybe!--Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 22:39, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Could one of you hat this little explosion of wiki-love, please? This is supposed to be a no bullying zone, Sigehelmus. — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 22:42, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I'm done with this article now, by the way. Thanks for your contributions. I've said everything I needed to anyway.-Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 22:49, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi SashiRolls, you added this back as a cause with this article as a source. Could you explain how this article leads you to think that globalism is a cause, how it's a reliable source for the causes of the protest, and why this particular opinion piece deserves that much weight? PeterTheFourth (talk) 07:03, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

That sounds like homework, Peter. ^^ Compare your quote in turquoise above to the quote listed in the reference template: [T]he rhetoric of the movement, with its insistence that there is a globalized élite that, by manipulating finance and capital, are undoing French civilization, rhymes ominously with the classic forms of French right-wing nationalism, including indigenous French anti-Semitism. One of the concerns of the gilets jaunes is that it is becoming increasingly expensive to live "off the grid" (i.e. heating one's home with "fioul", living far from transportation networks, having to buy a standard issue "gilet jaune", etc.) Other concerns include the way in which laws are applied differently to different people (Cf. the highly mediatized cases of Liliane Bettencourt & Jérôme Cahuzac, mentioned in the article "Aux sources de la colère contre l'impôt" cited in the entry), the suppression of the solidarity tax on wealth in order to encourage the wealthy to stay in France rather than moving to other countries which do not have such a tax. Just a word, PtF: it is not easy for me to write about these things as I've had very little direct contact with the Gilets Jaunes, as I sold my last vehicle over a dozen years ago and am not involved with the movement. I have, however, had the chance to speak with motorists who do talk with them at various "barrages filtrants" they've smiled, talked and waved their way through on the way to work each day for weeks now. I do not believe it is WP:UNDUE to mention this "cause" as one among many. I would also encourage you to read the rather "orienting" NYT article in the entry. Another concern is immigration, as evidenced by the complaint filed by border control against the gilets jaunes [10]. Cf. the Trumpism, Orbanism, Putinism mentioned in the article you asked about... (edit: you may also want to look through the extensive discussion of conspiracy theories and the yellow vests (in French) at Discussion:Mouvement de Gilets Jaunes) — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 11:47, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

@SashiRolls: Well, editing is optional. Please don't feel as though you're required to be here!

I agree that under a certain light, you could view the concerns illuminated in the opinion piece as similar to those put forth by the people who sincerely believe that 'globalism' is a threat. I disagree that the existence of this opinion piece or the content contained within is enough for us to list 'globalism' on this page as a cause of the movement. I'd be much more comfortable if a factual piece by a reliable source definitively labeled 'globalism' or fear thereof a cause. Does that makes sense? PeterTheFourth (talk) 20:25, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

@PeterTheFourth: Yes, optional, indeed, but addictive. :p Rather than sparring over "globalism" in the infobox, perhaps a nuanced paragraph would be better. The advocates for the straightforward label might start link-stacking, and that's just ugly. This op-ed in Courrier International mentions how French automotive hero Carlos Ghosn's arrest the 19 Nov couldn't have been worse news... — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 02:39, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

@SashiRolls: Including this opinion piece in the body of the article sounds like a great idea. It's a perspective that could stand to be expanded on. PeterTheFourth (talk) 06:13, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Source for: Caused by...

Caused by

• Increasing fuel taxes
• High fuel and motor taxes
• Unpopular austerity measures
• Globalism[6]

The source appear to be atlantico.

Is this a reliable source?

• The source media is Atlantico.fr, a normal news website as far as I can see. I see nothing wrong with that source. The issue was not raised yet at WP:RSN so the site does not appear at WP:RSP. The interview is with economist Rémi Bourgeot [11], whose articles are cited by Al Jazeera, Libération, RFI, L'Obs, TV5, La Croix, Le Figaro and others [12] He's an associate scholar at w:fr:Institut de relations internationales et stratégiques, a French think tank and recognized private university. Wakari07 (talk) 19:37, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Is this the official cause? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.67.188.101 (talk) 18:48, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

• What is official? Wakari07 (talk) 19:37, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Globalism should replace globalisation. The two are connected yet separate. Globalism is what various sources say as a causation. Irishpolitical (talk) 10:27, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Marseille building collapse / CGT

5 November. 1 482 people had to leave their homes for several weeks. It's still fresh in people's mind there. The article I added on the woman's death in Marseille ends by mentioning that, along with the CGT, a collective associated with the victims of the collapsed building had called to strike that Saturday. [13]

Looks like the movement is over, huh? — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 22:30, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Background

Economic reforms favoring the wealthy

I suggest to add a paragraph about the primary and main reason for the protest. Which is missing from this article. According to the protesters. Macron's economic reforms are favoring the wealthy, to the expense of the majority middle class. The diesel and fuel prices are an important part of their anger, but they are secondary motivation. Not a primary one.

How about adding this draft for the article "Background" section? With sources.

The protesters claimed that the Macron's administration pro-business economic reforms are overwhelmingly favoring a minority of wealthy people. To the expense of the majority middle class. Macron claimed that the goal of the pro-business economic reforms is to boost the economy to increase France competitiveness in the global economy. The result of a November 28, 2018 poll focused on those pro-business economic reforms, indicate that roughly 84% of French supported the yellow jacket movement, and 78% found Macron’s appeal unconvincing.

Sources

Francewhoa (talk) 00:26, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

---

Good short analysis I'd say. Wakari07 (talk) 03:47, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Yes, it's a good start! No mention has been made of Macron's decision to cancel the ISF (impôt sur la fortune) yet, which is one of the major bones of contention, mentioned in the MondeDiplo article in the entry, as well as in the "exclusive" Les Echos article I mentioned above (again...[14]) — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 18:17, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Remove sentence about "white nationalism"

I've removed a sentence at the end of the "Reactions" section: "The group has been referred to as white supremacists due to their opposition to refugees and the state of Israel."

In the four references provided: https://www.malaymail.com/s/1694471/yellow-vest-protests-against-macron-snarl-traffic-across-france https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-46328934/france-fuel-protests-tear-gas-and-water-cannon-fired-by-police https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hBaFfFY70U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIrk5hepCUs

None of them mention white supremacy or opposition to Israel. (I only skimmed the videos). The edit was made by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/185.236.42.17 here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yellow_vests_movement&diff=prev&oldid=872105981&diffmode=source

Wqwt (talk) 06:12, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

The IP smearing people as white supremacists was from Sweden, imagine my shock. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.74.189.129 (talk) 17:19, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Protests in Italy

There are currently no gilets jaunes protests I can find that have taken place in Italy. The only citation provided in this article that claims Italy is a part of these protests mentions an online group which is planning one.

I have removed Italy from the infobox because of this. If anyone can find any evidence that there are gilets jaunes protests taking place in Italy, then you're welcome to add it back in.

Grngu (talk) 15:36, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

gilets

how come this means vests and when I translate "jackets" to French using Google Translate it is "vestes"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wishfart (talk • contribs) 16:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

"Gilet" has two main meanings: the first a sleeveless waistcoat, the second a tricot garment with sleeves. (Source: [15]) Vest/veste may also be sleeved or sleeveless in both languages. They're frequent words with many meanings that vary in time, place and "register", so you need context to translate in an unequivocal way. But hey, no original research here, of course ;-) Wakari07 (talk) 17:26, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

In the French law, it is written gilet de haute visibilité, for instance in "Lorsqu'ils circulent la nuit, ou le jour lorsque la visibilité est insuffisante, tout conducteur et passager d'un cycle doivent porter hors agglomération un gilet de haute visibilité conforme à la réglementation et dont les caractéristiques sont prévues par un arrêté du ministre chargé des transports." (Article R431-1-1 En savoir plus sur cet article... Créé par Décret n°2008-754 du 30 juillet 2008 - art. 20) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.67.188.240 (talk) 22:05, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

In Irish Euro-English, it can be called High-visibility clothing [16]

In Euro-English, it can be called high visibility vests [17]

In Euro-English, it can also be called High visibility clothing [18]

In British English, the BBC can use high-visibility jackets, high-visibility clothing, and high-vis. the ubiquity of high-visibility clothing means that it surely symbolises the Britain of 2010s in the same way that miniskirts summed up the 1960s. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-14720101 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.67.188.240 (talk) 22:36, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Urbanism / amusing snark from the mayor of Saint Etienne

On December 7, 2018, the press reported that the mayor of Saint-Etienne had tweeted that Lyon's festival of lights should be canceled to free up the forces of order. Funny the press echo that's gotten already. [19] Allez les verts. ^^ This is probably related to the student strike in St. Etienne [20] (and in Lyon...) — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 23:14, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

What is so amusing/Funny in riots? The fact that many cities have to cancel many events dues to security/safety issues? I am quite sure that in many countries citizens would not consider amusing/Funny to have such events at home... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.67.188.240 (talk) 21:30, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

There is a huge rivalry between St. Etienne & Lyon (even in folk histories of the regional Dec 8 tradition). If Lyon's event were canceled, perhaps tourists would go to St. Etienne instead. I guess I'll write it in though, since RS seem to find it more important than the rain. — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 22:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

The riots are very serious indeed, but agree with Sashi is is still good to see the funny side. When protestors make good use of humour it often helps them achieve their aims and reduces the risk of provoking a shocking response from authorities like we saw at St. Exupery. This has a long tradtion in France going back to François Rabelais, Charivari and beyond. In the last few days, thousands have marched in support of students under the banner of Armée de Dumbledore , though I've not yet found a good source to include this. There is an excellent source available saying The Donald supported the yellow vests as he thought the movement is an endorsement of himself, but while LOLish thought it best not to include that. FeydHuxtable (talk) 14:46, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

There's history there. Dumbledore's army wasn't born yesterday. ^^— 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 02:21, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Death(s) 7 civilians (in France)

This warrants a deaths section by now.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 19:09, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Canada

Canada should be removed from the list of countries yellow vests are in. These are just far right groups such as soldiers of odin, hijacking yellow vests for publicity. Their only purpose is to stop brown people in Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.92.108.65 (talk) 00:21, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Don't get too worked up... all that is in the "also ran" category is clearly co-optation, whether friendly or un-friendly. Cheers, — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 00:44, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Wapo & Guardian op/eds removed from lede, first add them to the entry please. :)

These references were removed from the lead. They are interesting but probably should be worked into the body of the entry first. The key line I read in Lichfield's op-ed: "They (ed.) these apolcaplyptic visions are bizarre and dangerous aims for the mainstream revolutionaries – garage mechanics, retired building contractors, home carers, small entrepreneurs – who make up the bulk of the officially leaderless yellow vest movement". — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 19:54, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

I would also like to ask that you add this to a citation template. I'll add the example from Reuters below.

References

Here's a simple one: <ref>{{cite news | author = | date = | newpaper = | title = | url = | accessdate = | language = en}}</ref>

Those yellow vest protests in the Middle East are part of the Francosphere

Those Islamic countries where the yellow vests are taking place are also countries where the academic language is also French. 14:50, 18 December 2018 (UTC)Sweatisoftheessence (talk)

Ah bon? Irak? Jordan? Israël? Francophone? Ça alors! Je savais pas. ^^ — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 19:18, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Yes. Iraq was historically tied to France. Jordan is a former colonial. Israel is part of Eurosphere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sweatisoftheessence (talk • contribs) 00:35, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Sweatisoftheessence:. I concur with SashiRolls. Iraq and Jordan have no apparent sovereign link to France. Both countries sovereignty in recent history starts with the Ottoman Empire, then became British Protectorates (semi-autonomous), then sovereign states.

As for academic language: please see https://www.nafsa.org/Professional_Resources/Browse_by_Interest/International_Students_and_Scholars/Network_Resources/International_Enrollment_Management/The_Education_System_in_Iraq__An_Overview/

All of this doesn't mean there aren't links between France and / or the French language and these countries. However, a statement that Jordan and Iraq are within the Francosphere seem unsupportable. If you have something you think supports your statement, I'd be happy to look.

Thanks, Prime Lemur (talk) 11:21, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Brexit-Dubious

I am adding the dubious tag to the addition of Brexit to the goals section of this article. The citation, from the BBC, appears to be talking about events in Britain when it mentions Brexit, and even then the interviewee seems to be saying the YV movement has been appropriated by pro-Brexit groups.

I would also have some concern about trying to enumerate *every* pro- or anti-policy position being espoused by the increasingly diverse array of groups who, without wanting to be pejorative, jumped on the YV bandwagon.

I am also somewhat dubious about Euroscepticism being a goal: in some other countries, maybe. Italy and Britain, for sure. In order to move forward, and to avoid this becoming a flag on which people pin their own take on what's happening, perhaps we can split the goals section: "Original" at the top, to describe the goals of the original YV protestors in regional France, and national headings, starting with France, to describe stated goals of YVs to date by nationality. Or: Goals could just be original goals of first YV protestors, with a statement (to paraphrase) "see individual country entries for YV protestors stated goals in each country", and shift these other goals there.

Maintaining NPOV is protecting WP's reputation. Some people come to find out how YV movement started, and anyone reading this article who isn't familiar with what's going on might end up believing the original YV movement in France was about Brexit: obviously not the case. Prime Lemur (talk) 04:27, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

I have removed Brexit because it is probably not one of the goals of the French protest movement. (but, Cf. the Hundred Years' War). It should be discussed here before being readded (BRD).

I have added the link to the 42 Directives published by France Bleu as representative of Les Gilets Jaune's goals to the infobox from the body of the text.

I did not succeed in adding goals (France) to the infobox. Perhaps the parentheses break the template?

I wish people would format references correctly, rather than just multiplying bare links in ref tags...— 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 09:53, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Potentially relevant: User talk:ToBeFree/Archive 4#Message by EDively -- also pinging EDively, who may want to join the discussion per Special:Diff/873758429 and Special:Diff/873759551. Now that three users have independently complained about various unsourced additions, I hope that the issue becomes clear. Thanks ~ ToBeFree (talk) 16:49, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you @SashiRolls and ToBeFree, I guess this article will see a lot of traffic for a while, so I appreciate your personal responses.

I just want to refloat the idea ... a treatment of the "original" goals of YV may have value, as 1) it can be definitively stated as of now what started the movement, and won't change, and 2) this might be what some people came to the article looking for (this is what actually brought me here, hoping to verify the original grievances of the movement). Having said that, the situation is dynamic and, even early on, encompassed a range of issues in different places in France.

I'm happy to wait and see if other opinions on the topic of specifically outlining the original motivations of the YVs emerge. Once again, thanks for your feedback. Prime Lemur (talk) 01:40, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Removed an RT article & The Sun snippet about 20 people stopping busses. Let's wait for a little better sourcing... (long reads)— 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 20:08, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

🌪 This article seems to have settled a bit now. Thanks @SashiRolls for keeping an eye on it. Prime Lemur (talk) 11:32, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Will act VI take place?

Please, provide people with details about Act VI, because it's very difficult to find any information using popular search engines. Jacob poland (talk) 14:21, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 14:30, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Resignation of Charles Michel

Shouldn't it be explicetly stated that Charles Michel didn't resign because of the Yellow vests but because of an ongoing government crisis related to the UN Migration Pact? Stuffi3000 (talk) 11:46, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

I removed the line about Charles Michel. @L293D: could you please check this article out? Charles Michel resigned because the Flemish nationalist party left his coalition; not because of the Yellow jackets. (At least I've found a lot of RS asserting the former.) See also: Michel I Government — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 14:30, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Also, it appears the King has not accepted his resignation yet.

References

I've expanded the sentence about his resignation, explaining that he claims to have done so for other reasons. L293D (☎ • ✎) 14:42, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, I was working on it too. :) — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 15:06, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Twitter botnets

Reading an article in Courrier International, I see that The Times has written an article about the yellow jackets movement having being stirred up by Russians. Anyone subscribed to The Times out there, so we could add their POV? — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 22:48, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

All the article says (the Courrier one) is that hundreds of accounts "linked to Russia" are trying to exaggerate the movement's significance and sowing ethnic division on social media. While it's not an uncommon accusation in Europe nowadays, I don't mind mentioning this as long as it is properly attributed to The Times and "New Knowledge", the cybersecurity firm it is citing. Access to the Times is not required, since we already have a reliable secondary source covering this.

And, while we're at it, we should probably mention other global government and media reactions, such as the ones summed up by this Figaro article. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 10:26, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Turns out that Russian media is, in fact, suspicious of the protests and likened them to colour revolutions in ex-Soviet republics.[21] They suspect the Trump administration of being involved as a means to "punish" Macron for supporting a unified European army.

So if there are plans to mention conspiracy theories in the article, citing obscure firms like "New Knowledge", then we might as well mention the Russian side of the story, which is reliably sourced.[22] Fitzcarmalan (talk) 12:05, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

I'd read the Le Monde article from 3 Dec before. In it, the journalist (a Moscow correspondent) strongly suggests that Dmitri Kisselev is full of it. ^^ — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 15:12, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2018

The yellow vests protests have spread to Taiwan. Source: https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/21/asia/taiwan-yellow-vest-protest-intl/index.html 65.92.98.217 (talk) 18:59, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Done. Thanks! — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 21:45, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

The etymology of les gilets jaunes

The literal translation of les gilets jaunes into English would actually be "the yellow gilets" because the latter is a valid item of clothing in much of the English speaking world. The practical translation should be along the lines of "the yellow jackets" because the items of clothing worn aren't vests at all. Hindianu (talk) 18:00, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

See wikt:vest#Noun. Wakari07 (talk) 01:38, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Allocution

@SashiRolls: Firstly salut Sashi, I freely admit I'd never heard "allocution" used in English before but have noted it for future reference! I suspect -but may be wrong -that it's a French word with an English equivalent which has largely been superseded. The Google translation is "address" which is absolutely the word I think is required here. Any objections to changing it? Regards JRPG (talk) 22:25, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Salut back! Yes, that's great, sorry for being stubborn. — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 22:41, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

@JRPG: I went ahead and did it. So ... you were right straight across the board. ^^ If you see anything else, don't hesitate... — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c}

"I suspect -but may be wrong -that it's a French word with an English equivalent". I assume both words (allocution and adresse) have been in the (Middle/Old) French language before being in the English one. Both words (including adrece ) could also come from the latin language (ad + rex / ad + rect) and ad + locutio from alloqui . That's just they are not used in the exact same way in both languages, but may be wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.185.253.246 (talk) 23:14, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

address (noun): "Meaning "act or manner of speaking to" is from 1670s. Sense of "formal speech to an audience" (Gettysburg Address, etc.) is from 1751. Sense of "superscription of a letter" (guiding it to its destination) is from 1712 and led to the meaning "place of residence" (by 1888)." https://www.etymonline.com/word/address

to address (verb): early 14c., "to guide, aim, or direct," from Old French adrecier "go straight toward; straighten, set right; point, direct" (13c.), from Vulgar Latin *addirectiare "make straight" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.185.253.246 (talk) 23:24, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Allocution (disambiguation), wikt:allocution: usage in English is more restricted to the formalism of the Pope, law court and media theory, whereas in French, it's simply a short harangue, a "speech to the troops". Wakari07 (talk) 01:55, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Francophone Belgium

@Morgengave: Hi. There's a Le Monde article and possibly another already in the bibliography mentioning how the yellow vests movement had its origin in Wallonia. Concerning the billiard-ball incident Le Soir says of the demonstrators "beaucoup ont fait la déplacement de la Wallonie"... see the embedded (French-speaking) reporter live-blogging it. [23]. Another article from RTL.be: "Gilets jaunes: pourquoi la Flandre est-elle épargnée ?"[24]

Feel free to join the TP discussion above about Charles Michel. It seems Charles Michel ran into a bit of bother too because nobody on the center-left wanted to join the government to replace the Flemish party from what I've read... but nobody wants elections right now I guess. — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 22:10, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

But it's not limited to Wallonia. There were protests in bilingual Brussels as referenced in the article, and there were some protests in Flanders: amongst others small scale ones in Genk and Hasselt: [25] and Leuven: [26], and one planned for tomorrow in Antwerp: [27]. I would be cautious to assume it has a language community aspect. Morgengave (talk) 22:23, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

I disagree on the importance of language. It says right there in your second article: "The activists distributed pamphlets in three languages ​​(Dutch, English and Polish) to drivers who entered and left the brewery." Via goobledi-translate I read that the guy in the first article says he had hoped for 10 people to show up after creating a FB group, and was delighted when 30 did.

That 20-yellow-vest action at the beer factory sure is curious in that second ref though. In Wallonie, it was oil depots. So yeah, some of the Belgian yellow vests seem to be against tubing, though I've yet to read an RS actually come out and say it.

I agree with your flattening of the list of international events. — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 15:43, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

I also disagree on the importance of language -- there's no language divide in Belgium around the yellow vests -- people in the different language communities participate. Morgengave (talk) 11:51, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Croatia

Hello, this movement has also been active in Croatia. Source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazymanball (talk • contribs) 23:13, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Done. Thank you! Levivich (talk) 06:03, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Yellow vests protest during act VI in Portugal

Please update the content of the article with a new source of yellow vests protests that took place in Portugal. Yellow vests movement in Portugal — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacob poland (talk • contribs) 10:48, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Done. Thanks! Levivich (talk) 06:04, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2018

Typo in section "Protests outside France adopting the symbol" Pakistan -> Portugal 2601:204:CF00:2768:70CF:71AE:E445:D67D (talk) 08:18, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done DannyS712 (talk) 08:27, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

So sorry about that, got them confused. Thank you for fixing it. Levivich (talk) 08:38, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Pakistan

Sorry to be overly detail oriented, but only the photo from Pakistan Today allows connection with the gilets jaunes; there are no words linking the Engineers to the yellow vests in any of the three articles used in the entry. Not sure what to make of this... — 🐡 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 21:50, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

References

I agree with removing in the absence of an explicit RS. For similar reasons, I'm not sure that Ref #6 (this BBC video) supports Greece, Hungary, Romania, or Sweden as currently listed and I wonder if we shouldn't find better sources for those countries or else remove them? Levivich (talk) 06:17, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Pakistan Protest

Sorry for giving fewer references, Please read the line, "Their use of yellow jacket symbolizes the citizens` movement going on in French capital Paris against oil price hike."Follow here

Further, I have uploaded a pic which clearly mention solidarity with Yellow Vests https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Yellow_Vests_Lahore.jpg Umar shahid (talk) 12:55, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

I see it's been posted to the PECOofficial FB page, too: [28] I guess the globe is abuzz with 虎頭蜂 ~ 🐝 ~ SashiRolls ^{t · c} 13:39, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Now revert edit and add Pakistan too Umar shahid (talk) 18:46, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Done. I decided to sleep on it and see if something more would come out in the press, but no. Odd, that. Looks like this has been simmering for a while [29]. Feel free to add the image, fix the prose, or update, should something more detailed be reported. Best, SashiRolls ^{t · c} 01:36, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Direct democracy revendication

Since weeks, the movement has been know all over the french media to be calling for the implementation of a law making possible popular referendums in France, which they call "Référendum d'initiative citoyenne", abbreviated RIC. See the page on the french wiki [30]. [31], [32], [33], [34], [35], etc. The article really should mention it.--Aréat (talk) 21:26, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

On the issue of whether the yellow vests support RIC, among English-language sources, I found: one from Breitbart News, not RS per WP:RSP (not linked per blacklist); one from Daily Express, not RS per WP:RSP; one from Dissent (American magazine) which is a "left-wing" publication per our article on it; one from Tablet Magazine which has been brought up at WP:RSN and I'm not sure what the consensus is about its reliability; one from France24, which is state-owned French news. Among the French-language sources, I don't know, as I don't speak French. Curious as to others' thoughts on this. Levivich (talk) 22:12, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

I had added this a week or two ago to the "origin and nature of the movement" section, but I'm not sure it ever made it to the lead. I've added a bit more on the history of this call for a RIC, both in that section and in Week VII. SashiRolls ^{t · c} 23:10, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Well, I don' t know about the foreign medias, but in France there isn't a day passing without an article on it - the sources I included were all from the previous days, for example -, while the Prile Minister Edouard Philippe said he's open to it, under conditions. I've got no cristal ball of course, but it's a developing point, and I was surprised by the lack of info on it on this page. Cordially. --Aréat (talk) 05:04, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you both. I think it's indispensable that we stay up to date with French-language sources because the English-language sources are clearly not providing thorough or accurate coverage (unless somebody is setting something on fire). Without the contributions of French-speaking editors, it would be an impossible task. Levivich (talk) 06:28, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Unbelievablely biased wiki

Nothing on the anti-semitism, nothing on the fact minority citizens have stayed away showing it isn't a peoples movement it is a whites only protest, nothing on the political make up of protestors which have been mostly rural Le Pen bigots. Sadly it is the Left white-washing a protest they wish was theirs of the ugly side of it. Article is a lying propaganda piece. 96.31.177.52 (talk) 21:14, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Be bold: if you have reliable sources for your claims, then you are free to contribute constructively. Wakari07 (talk) 22:00, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

All depends upon what you call minority:

Source to deal with antisemitsm: http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2018/12/24/gilets-jaunes-en-matiere-d-antisemitisme-tout-est-a-craindre-et-les-strategies-d-occultation-sont-un-leurre_5401843_3232.html

This source is an opinion piece by fr:Vincent Duclert (es), a pro-Alfred Dreyfus Dreyfus affair authority. Not what one would call unbiased. Wakari07 (talk) 21:41, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

One of the supposed leader received by the prime minister, Priscillia Ludosky, because she is martiniquaise could also be considered as a minority citizen. http://www.guadeloupe.franceantilles.fr/actualite/social/priscillia-ludosky-une-martiniquaise-derriere-les-gilets-jaunes-513388.php

So at least one member of a minority group is leading the yellow jackets. Wakari07 (talk) 21:41, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

A member of parliament has also received racist letter http://www.rfi.fr/france/20190105-jean-francois-mbaye-depute-macroniste-lrem-noir-menace-mort-anonyme

There is no apparent link with the yellow jackets here. Wakari07 (talk) 21:41, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

There is also this Licra page: http://www.licra.org/gilets-jaunes-les-risques-dune-derive — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.199.96.63 (talk) 15:34, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

This is an opinion piece by the lawyer-president of LICRA, an anti-antisemitism organisation. All depends upon what you call bias. Wakari07 (talk) 21:41, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Allegations of antisemitism by various bien-pensants

what about http://thejewishvoice.com/2018/12/17/anti-semitic-rhetoric-found-in-yellow-vest-protests-across-france/ ? These elements should be explained. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wishfart (talk • contribs) 10:01, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

pull-quote from article: "Earlier this week, Israel announced a new plan to promote and encourage French Aliyah."

pull-quote 2 -- "a huge banner that was displayed on an overpass over the main highway between Paris and Marseilles accused French President Emmanuel Macron of being a “w—- to the Jews.” "

Were this true, one would think one would be able to find a trace of it by searching for "banderole gilets jaunes". And in fact what one finds is the story of a banner that appeared for a few hours at an obscure roundabout and which said nothing of the sort. [36], [37]

Wikipedia: "The Jewish Voice has an unapologetic pro-Zionist editorial outlook. It covers of (sic) Israeli and local news (the latter focused on New York, New Jersey and Florida). On its Facebook page, the Jewish Voice mission statement is (sic) "Providing our readers with timely and thought-provoking news and opinion, from a pro-American, pro-Zionist perspective."

This source is used 14 times on en.wp SashiRolls ^{t · c} 12:44, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

I noticed the Jewish Voice article linked to also quotes people who said: The yellow jacket movement is not itself antisemitic but this protest is multiform, unorganized on national level and very autonomous. Because of that, there have been manifestations of racism and anti-Semitism in various forms, linking the Jews to the 'power elites' and The yellow jacket movement attracts anti-Semites who try to infuse theories like 'Jews, Zionists are the elites, the financiers'. Personally I don't think JV is a reliable source, especially for "what is and what is not" anti-semitism. Even JV seems to be careful not to accuse the movement, as a whole, of anti-semitism. Rather, they are pointing out some instances of what I would call attempted co-optation. I do think our article might benefit from a section about "attempted co-optation," similar to the "uses in other countries" section, but I'm not sure if there are enough RSes to support it just yet (meaning, whether the problem is really widespread enough or notable enough such that its inclusion would be WP:DUE, or whether this is just isolated trivia, such that its inclusion would be UNDUE). Levivich (talk) 18:37, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Of course you don't think JV is reliable, you wouldn't accept any Jewish source. I can point out interview after interview of common French people who while upset with the Gov, disavow the protests because of bigotry in it. But you think the JV is lying. Unbelievable. [38] There are countless articles just like this with quotes discussing the problems with the protestors. 96.31.177.52 (talk) 21:23, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

IP user: please read up on what Wikipedia is not. Wakari07 (talk) 22:08, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Honest clearly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.31.177.52 (talk) 07:44, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

The Guardian article doesn't mention antisemitism, so I'm confused. But regardless of my confusion, everyone is welcome to edit the encyclopedia; please feel free to add reliable sources and expand the article. Levivich (talk) 22:15, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

A New Republic article with a flamboyant title: [39]

factual error (a matraque is not a firearm): "Weeks later, Drouet was arrested during a Paris protest for carrying an illegal firearm."

This exaggeration should not be overblown to discredit the article. This is a pretty good essay from a media elite aspirant who has apparently worked for France 24 & The Daily Beast already. It's already in the article ref-named Hurst, if anyone wants to write more. Incidentally, I've now "seen" the banner mentioned in the JV on the twitter account of a journalist from LCP (or Public Sénat). (No date on the picture though... the original seems to have been deleted.) SashiRolls ^{t · c} 17:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I did some searching. The banner (or maybe "a" banner) is reported with photo by Times of Israel last month. [40] I thought I saw a picture of a different antisemitic banner from a more recent protest, but I can't find it now. In addition to the JV [41] and TNR [42] articles, antisemitism is being covered in Haaretz [43], Jewish Star [44], The Local (France) [45], The Times (UK) [46] and Middle East Media Research Institute [47]. It seems to me to be enough coverage to make it a sufficiently notable topic to include in the article, somewhere (Reactions?). Levivich (talk) 19:44, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

How would you word it? I read ephemerous violent rhetorics and body language, marginal recuperation attempts by the underbelly of the 1% far-out extremists. Not wishing to minimize, but I see no behaviour significant enough to raise the antisemitism alarm specifically. Maybe in connection with racism, homophobia and Islamophobia, (also anti-government conspiracy theorists [48]) but I struggle to distill a blurb. Haters must hate and the stupid must be stupid. I think it's worth about 1 kilobyte... that's about one sentence with two references. Can you propose something? As possible acts of antisemitism, I count two photographs of banners, a "notorious anti-Semite" who "was photographed as the face of the protests before journalists later recognized him" (the so-called "accidental" Paris Match cover – paramount sensationalism), the support from a known "comic" and one reported verbal attack. For further perspective, the added source claims that the co-optation (recuperation) is far worse in the spin-off countries. In France, 10 civilians were killed, thousands were injured, of which more than 1,000 police, billions of euros of economic damage were sustained and not one of these victims is mentioned anywhere as being a victim because of being a Jew. Wakari07 (talk) 22:20, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

The way I see it, what's notable about this is a perception, more than a reality: that is, not that yellow vests are antisemitic, but that there is some commentary about attempted co-optation of the movement by antisemites. This commentary is from not only Israeli and Jewish media outlets (Haaretz, Jewish Voice, Jewish Star), but also notable publications inside and outside of France (The Local in Fr., The Times in UK, TNR in US). About this commentary, I agree no more than one sentence is WP:DUE, such as: "Some media outlets have published reports of attempted co-optation of the yellow vests movement by antisemitic groups.(ref)".

I think this a part of a larger narrative of "co-optation" (kind of a loaded word) or "the diversity of political opinions among people wearing yellow vests around the world" (more neutral). My OR/Synth of the situation is this: the actual gilets jaunes–those French people wearing yellow vests and protesting in France–are a diverse grassroots coalition bound by common economic grievances (e.g., prices too high, wages too low, gov't not doing anything about it), not bound by broader philosophical agreement (capitalism, socialism, liberalism, conservatism, whatever). Meanwhile, everyone else who has a grievance anywhere about anything is putting on a yellow vest. So you have some right-wing and some left-wing, some pro- this and anti- that, inside France, outside France, all wearing yellow vests. I think the article should discuss that. The problem is, from what I have read, there are reliable sources saying "these yellow vests are pro-this" or "those yellow vests are anti-that," but I haven't read an RS that ties it all together, taking a global view, explaining the differences between one "yellow vests movement" and another. Until then, for us to make the comparisons I fear would be synth, and so we don't have more than the little tidbits to string together. In light of this, I wonder whether even just one sentence about antisemitism, outside of a larger section about co-optation, might be UNDUE. I'm honestly not sure about that, and defer to more experienced editors. Levivich (talk) 23:56, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Nothing particularly important about this comment, just felt we needed to stop adding white-space. ^^ I do find that MEMRI article you posted above interesting, though, just in how it focuses so much energy on Dieudonné and the "dumpling", a generic pack of which cost under a €1 at hard discounters, incidentally. This whole French paranoia about that gesture is crazy. My daughter told me a story about a kid raising his hand in class at an odd angle and being told that his geste could be mis-interpreted. (smh) Still, it's certainly not surprising that Dieudonné has whipped up a yellow vest with his signature pineapple. He and Manuel Valls have been sparring for years. A bit of context: as in many states in the US, calling for even the B of BDS is rather frowned upon -- [49] -- so it's not that terribly surprising that there would be a little steam diffusing through the mille-feuille given Macron's CV.

You might be looking for this article? (mostly about Canada & Britain, but it's got the word co-opt in it). . PS: Not sure if Going Global is a rubric or part of the title...

References

Hungary

I used parts of this article to write in the Dutch Wikipedia, but in the BBC documentary I could not find a source indicating that the movement is active in Hungary. (While it used this as a reference, I am talking about: Yellow Vests: Is the movement spreading across Europe?) Have I missed it? Is the movement active in Hungary or not? If so another source might be needed for this. AntonHogervorst (talk) 09:24, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

The "movement", such as it is, seems to involve reaching into your glovebox (or your emoji-box) and putting on a high-visibility symbol. The rules permitting employers to demand 400 hours per year of overtime work with the requirement that they pay only within three years reminds me of the many unpaid overtime hours the French police have been upset about. In any case, there are links drawn between the two movements by Al Jazeera, DW, Bloomberg, etc. It being significantly colder in Budapest, I imagine that gilets jaunes as outer-vests don't make much sense. But as elsewhere, the catalyst seems to be a local issue. ~ 🐝 ~ SashiRolls ^{t · c} 14:55, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

I agree that it is hard to judge what is 'yellow vest' and what not. After doing some research it seems to me that some organisations are indeed just copying the yellow vest symbol but there is little connection between them. For example the movement in the Netherlands is anti-EU, and many protesters like Orban the president of Hungary (personal experience), while the people in Budapest were protesting against the same person. For this moment I just 'leave Hungary out' in the Dutch article. Thanks for your reply. AntonHogervorst (talk) 12:32, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Hello, therE are Many news in the French version, in particular AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL 14/12/2018. --Stfj (talk) 08:05, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

I removed Hungray (and a few other countries) for lack of sourcing, but they would be welcome inclusions if we had RS to cite for them. If the RS supporting them are in French (or any other language), English-speakers like me won't be able to add them in; I rely on editors who speak foreign languages to add the foreign sources or post links here (and not just tell us that they exist, because that is not actionable, at least not by me). Thanks. Levivich (talk) 20:29, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Uhm. What information do you want exactly? I speak Dutch, English, French, Spanish, German and Korean. AntonHogervorst (talk) 22:30, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Just to clarify, my comment was in response to Stfj's comment above about "many news in the French version." My research into Hungray led me to the same conclusion as others; I don't see English-language sources describing the protests in Hungary as part of the yellow vests movement. If anything, they suggest the opposite: that it's a separate protest movement, with, at most, some participants wearing yellow vests in solidarity with Gilet jaunes, but the people in Hungary aren't described as part of Gilet jaunes. So, if there are "many news in the French version," it will require a French-speaking editor to add them (although we have French-speaking editors who have said they also haven't found sources saying Hungary is part of Gilet jaunes). Asserting that some part of the English-language article doesn't match French-language sources, without providing those sources, isn't helpful. Levivich (talk) 17:48, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

The movement is a SPONTANEOUS political movement

Hard to say "populist" and "grassroots" movement, because it is still going on. We have to be careful. That's why i would say :" The mouvement des gilets jaunes is a spontaneous political movement " at the beginning of the article.--Stefan jaouen (talk) 07:41, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Liar, it is a racist LE Pen front action96.31.177.52 (talk) 07:48, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

False,talk : Jean-Luc Melechon supports the movement ! You should read the article.--Stefan jaouen (talk) 11:15, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

The English-language sources commonly use "populist" and "grassroots" to describe the Gilet jaunes. (As sourced in the article.) I'm not seeing "spontaneous" as being commonly used by the sources. I would say all "grassroots" political movements are "spontaneous", as opposed to, say, planned by a political party; this is what "grassroots" means. But mostly, my feeling is it doesn't matter whether I think it's "spontaneous" or "grassroots" or "populist" or even "French"; it matters what the sources say. I've no objection to adding "spontaneous" if it's properly referenced. Also, sad to see Stefan being attacked by the IP comment; demonstrating Wikipedia at its best. Stefan, thank you for raising this discussion here (and for your contributions to the article). Levivich (talk) 17:41, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

ok,Levivich, thanks--Stefan jaouen (talk) 17:55, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Reminder to readers

Thankfully most people know that Wikipedia is not and does not ever claim to be a reliable source for news. Be sure to read the disclaimers at the bottom of the page.

I think we need to add the on-going template. rt / bitcoin mags / news.com.au / capital.fr / Valeurs Actuels are all building Tahz San a soapbox at the moment. Spontaneity? Your call. ^^ SashiRolls ^{t · c} 20:49, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Agree about restoring current events template and also about not including announcements of future actions in the article. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go buy some bitcoin; I hear the price will go up in a few days. ;) Levivich (talk) 21:37, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

The photo "Résistance" was deleted. What is the problem ?

• 
  "Résistance"(in front of Arc de Triomphe, Champs-Élysées, Paris)

I think that this photo is interesting. The police was not far away. That's why this man was afraid. But he wanted to STAY and to be photographed. You can feel it through the photo... Or maybe a robot deleted my photo...--Stefan jaouen (talk) 15:11, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

@Cheep: Hi--could you please share your reasons for removing this photo [50]? Thanks. Levivich (talk) 17:12, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Women were an important part of the movement

Women were an important part of the movement from the beginning, both in defining its objectives and communicating at roundabouts.[137] In the eighth week, they organized separate demonstrations in Paris, Toulouse and Caen. According to one of the organizers, the goal was to have a "channel of communication other than violence".[138]

What on earth is this? You are losing it wikipedia, how can a sentence like this stay up? Are women aliens? Are women not implied to be part of the movement in the rest of the article? This sentence divides up women from the group like they are another species, what on earth is this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.102.83.139 (talk) 09:33, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

If you wish to improve the article go ahead. I believe we need more talk about women's role in the movement in the "nature" and "origins" section, but have limited time to contribute. That's why I added those two references and the admittedly awkward prose. Be my guest, fix it. :) SashiRolls ^{t · c} 20:25, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm not seeing how a sentence with "women" as its subject "divides up women from the group like they are another species". For example, "women wear yellow vests" doesn't mean only women wear yellow vests, nor that they are wearing only yellow vests :-) Levivich (talk) 21:19, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

bank run?

So, did this ever happen? Not seeing any after-the-fact English language coverage of any bank run or mass cash withdrawals but that doesn't mean much in this day & age...English-language media chient le lit in covering this movement, i think you would say? (my French isn't what it used to be, alas) LeviaThinMint (talk) 17:08, 13 January 2019 (UTC) '

ruée sur les banques and Tahz San are good search terms... (especially since the first returns les banques font leur ruée sur le Togo in addition to more ordinary results for people starting "bank runs".) My impression is that it was a blip from the cryptosphere. Who knows? :) SashiRolls ^{t · c} 17:22, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

My photo in Paris to illustrate act 9 was replaced by a photo in Nice from french article, without any reason given

Yv9RUEdeRIVOLI

There are already many photos from other french towns than Paris in the article. That's why the photo in RUE DE RIVOLI with so many people was very interesting. Moreover, there are black people, white people, people from India ... all together, some of them laughing... We are far away from the description sometimes given of this political movement...--Stefan jaouen (talk) 18:21, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Levivich likes this photo.

I agree with you about showing an accurate representation of the protestors including their diversity. The one thing I don't like about the photo on the right is that many of the people shown are not wearing yellow vests, and there's the empty space in the street. But I don't like "photo edit wars" either. Also, I really like the photo on the left, which was also removed. @Cheep: dialogue, s'il vous plaît? Levivich (talk) 08:40, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

thanks Levivich. I do like the photo on the left too. And i think it could be used again.--Stefan jaouen (talk) 10:33, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I think the illustrations on fr.wp are done a bit better than ours. I've never really learned proper Wiki layout for images and so have been watching with interest as various layouts/image proportions are tried. Concerning Nice or Paris, I think it would be better to have images from *outside* the capital, simply to represent that this is really going on all over the country and that Paris is not the epicenter. I haven't gone out taking photos though so I can't complain about the lack of any from my area. ^^ The main "problem" with the Nice photo is that it was taken from ground level and nobody is looking at the camera... but that is also an advantage as we're not infringing anyone's droit à l'image if we use it. I was glad to see the Belfort photo back in the infobox. I get the impression that Cheep isn't that big on talking, either on en.wp or on fr.wp. Too bad... SashiRolls ^{t · c} 13:44, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

SashiRolls, the paragraph tells essentially about Paris. There are already photos from other cities in the article. So, i think that the photo in paris is far better than the one in Nice. We are not told about Nice in the paragraph. Moreover, "droit à l'image" is not your problem when you demonstrate. You want to be a demonstrator and that your presence serves your conviction. There won't be any problem.--Stefan jaouen (talk) 13:02, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

You're edit warring over a photo you took yourself. While it's always valued to contribute photos to Wikipedia, it strikes me as a form of conflict of interest to war over your own creation. The correct process for Wikipedia is Bold, Revert, Discuss. That means you added it, it was reverted, the next step is to discuss, not for you to revert it back in. So please, if it's removed again, both for your proximity to the content and for BRD, stop reverting it. – NULL ‹talk›
‹edits› 20:35, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

As for the photo itself, the paragraph is primarily talking about clashes with riot police, which the portrait photo doesn't depict, nor does it show the Arc de Triomphe nor the site of the bakery explosion. If the only connection the photo has to the paragraph is 'Paris', then the landscape photo has as much connection because the paragraph also talks about country-wide details. Given there's no meaningful difference in relevance, the landscape photo rates preferable for me for its better composition and clearer focus. – NULL ‹talk›
‹edits› 20:49, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

You're right about how BRD works, but it's hard to "discuss" when the editor reverting you won't post anything to the talk page. Scrolling up, I see Stefan making several attempts to discuss. (I also sent two pings.) Levivich (talk) 21:06, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Agreed, but there are other people it could be discussed with, and re-reverting makes people more combative and even less likely to discuss. – NULL ‹talk›
‹edits› 21:14, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Agreed as well; edit warring and re-reverting never helps. Levivich (talk) 21:17, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

CRS (riot police) guns

The other day I reverted [51] an edit for multiple reasons (see edit summary), one of which was the line about CSR being "seen" carrying "semi-automatic weapons" with "live ammunition", which I felt was something that didn't receive enough coverage in significant news sources to be notable. The editor who I reverted posted to my talk page with some sources and it got me investigating. The sources were a tweet [52] with a picture of an article from Le Canard enchaîné (which I guess doesn't post their stories online, and I don't think we can use the twitter link as a source), and an MSN.com reprint [53] of a story from 20 Minutes (20minutes.fr) [54] (which is posted online and could be used if it's reliable). I also found Mediapart and MRCTV covered it. Among English-language sources, all I see are stories in Daily Mail and Breitbart (neither is usable on WP) and all the other English web sites seem to be quoting the Daily Mail story. So I can't find RS in English about this. I do see more of it in French, but I have no idea if the sources I linked to are reliable or not, and though I can Google translate it, I'm not 100% of how to evaluate "significance" in a language I don't speak. So, I leave the links here, if it is reliable and they say what they appear to say (that Act IX was the first time CSR were ordered to carry their H&K G36 submachine guns instead of leaving them in their car), then I see no reason not to add it. Just kicking this back to editor IP 185 or anyone else who speaks French (again) to make the final decision :-) Thank you. Levivich? ! 18:06, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

I'll look into this more closely. My original reaction to the DM story was that it didn't mention that seeing fusils d'assaut is rather commonplace in France, though it's true it's not the CRS carrying them. It looks like the CE piece was investigative, though I'd like to see the print version... I'll look tomorrow. 20 minutes & Mediapart are both RS, on the other hand, so a sentence on the story may soon/already be due. SashiRolls ^{t · c} 23:50, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Pancarte5janvier.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:07, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Manifesto

Is it known, whether the manifesto with the list of demands, which circulates the internet, is authentic or not? If so, it might be good to add it into the article. https://i1.wp.com/www.lelibrepenseur.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/gilet-jaune-charte.jpg?w=1000&ssl=1 --178.255.168.11 (talk) 06:41, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

I've seen the demands but only in French. Are they "real"? I've only seen English translations on non-RS like Reddit. Is this something we can/should put in the article? Thoughts? ^Leviv_ich? ! 05:11, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Background, Context, Origin & Nature sections

I don't know if it's just me or if any other editors feel this way, but I feel that the "Background" section, the "Context" section, and the "Origin" part of the "Origin and nature of the movement" section should be combined/reorganized. Specifically, "Nature of the movement" should have its own section, and then there should be one or two sections for "Background/Context/Origin." I could see an argument for a "Background/Context" section (about the political/social environment in which the movement exists), an "Origin" section (about the beginnings of the movement), and a "Nature of the movement section" (a description of the movement and its political goals). Does anyone else think it should be changed, or is it fine the way it is? Wanted to see what the consensus was before making changes in case it's just me. Thanks. Levivich (talk) 20:35, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

I don't have a lot of time at the moment, and I trust you'll find ways to improve the article! I'm always quite hesitant about arguments concerning "the nature of...", though. SashiRolls ^{t · c} 21:29, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

I made these changes, lmk if you hate it. ^Leviv_ich? ! 05:12, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Why the article doesn't mention protests in Australia and how mass media all over the world hides the topic, treating it as unimportant?!

Questions as stated in the topic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.174.122.141 (talk) 13:58, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Australia has been mentioned, with citations. There is no evidence that "mass media all over the world hides the topic" - as you can see by the size of this article, it has been extensively covered. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 11:03, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

whilst v. while

Not the most important thing ever, but often folks come along and change things to their local grammar, adding non-standard forms like "whilst" (see ngram showing that this is 12 times less common than "while" even in written British English). Similarly "made up of" is 5 times more common than "comprised of" (again, even in Island English). Wikipedia is the only place where these weird parochialisms have such pride of place. Is there a Manchester grammar cabal? ^^ SashiRolls ^{t · c} 20:11, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Move

Suggest move to Yellow Vests movement as its a proper name.-Inowen (nlfte) 03:17, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

My impression is that the English RSes are pretty evenly split, with some capitalizing and other not capitalizing. The most common I've personally seen in French is Gilet jaunes but I'm not sure if that is in fact the most common, and what it means for an English title. I lean towards not capitalizing it because it's not like a legal entity or formed organization (it's not a non-profit or an NGO, for example). So "abolitionist movement", "anti-apartheid movement", "womens' suffrage movement", "civil rights movement", "gay rights movement", etc., are not capitalized, for this reason, I don't think "yellow vests movement" should be capitalized either. That said, I don't really have strong feelings on the matter. ^Leviv_ich 04:11, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

ref-naming spree

@RTG: has made an interesting, not-so-minor edit that probably should be mentioned here, because it changed the referencing structure of the page. I've never seen this before, which is strange, because it does have a strong advantage: content is not completely buried by long references in wiki-text view. It should be completely transmutable. The only significant drawback I see is that it's not possible to check sourcing with ctrl-click while editing a section. SashiRolls ^{t · c} 20:59, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I've started using this format also recently, I think it's better for the exact reason you said: content isn't buried by long references (and all the cite templates are in one place, so you don't have to go hunting for which section it's in, if you need it). It's true that this means you can't preview refs when editing only a section, and so for me that means two edits instead of one sometimes when I mess up on a reference. But, I usually mess something up anyway and have to do a clean-up edit, so I feel it's a small price to pay for the advantages. :-) ^Leviv_ich 21:11, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi, yes that's been a bug forever. There are some solutions in the comments of this request, but I haven't tried them and don't even know how to. :) o/ ~ R.T.G 23:51, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Spinout timeline?

This article is getting long and it looks like it will continue to grow. What do editors think about spinning out the timeline section into its own sub-article? Leviv ich 22:45, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

It's a good idea; I just wonder if the timeline will be notable in 10 years. SashiRolls ^{t · c} 10:57, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Yellow Vest Movement Motivated by Resistance to Raising Fuel Prices Caused by Macron's Carbon Taxes

We are having a dispute over the causes of this movement. These sources consider one of the causes of the Yellow Vests Movement to be carbon taxes levied by Macron. Here is a sample quote from WaPo:

"The protesters’ chief complaint: the rising cost of diesel fuel. The recent price hike is a direct result of President Emmanuel Macron’s commitment to curbing climate change, which included higher carbon taxes for 2018, the first full year of his term."

In other words, carbon taxes--> rising cost of fuel --> yellow vest protestors' complaints.

Here is the reference. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/frances-climate-change-commitments-trigger-rising-diesel-prices-and-street-protests/2018/11/17/fdc01fa6-e9b1-11e8-8449-1ff263609a31_story.html

For other references, see: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/world/europe/france-fuel-carbon-tax.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/why-are-the-yellow-vests-still-protesting-in-france-his-name-is-macron/2018/12/08/36488d00-fa2d-11e8-8642-c9718a256cbd_story.html

An editor is deleting my addition without references while threatening me through warnings, despite my repeatedly referencing respected sources. On his talk page, he also has a history of editing others' comments without talk or reference despite their protests. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bostonisfun (talk • contribs) 03:59, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

@Mélencron: I agree that the story is probably more complicated than is easily summarized in a two word noun phrase such as "carbon tax" being an infoboxable root cause of the movement... the complaint was more that gvt policy was "passing along the financial burden for the carbon tax to individuals who could barely afford it, rather than passing it on to -- say -- Amazon/CDiscount/diesel maritime shipping clients"... Still, I don't think Bostonisfun is wrong. Is there a compromise suggestion / middle way? -- SashiRolls ^{t · c} 12:35, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Infoboxing an ark

• Collectivist anarchism
• Individualist anarchism

References

The above has been removed from the infobox. @Lapaix12: could you please stop re-adding every flavor of anarchy you can find and sourcing it to an article that, outside its headline, does not seem to mention anarchy at all? -- SashiRolls ^{t · c} 11:54, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Meta: Wikidata fiddling

In the wise wisdom of the freelance metadata movement for max-ontic dysruptivity, Wikidata has two entities for the YVM: Q60781646 and Q58805164. I've tried to get this sorted down there in the data dungeon but from the looks of things that might be addressed sometime in 2020. ^^ In the meantime, though this entry developed fairly independently of the French article, it might not be a bad idea to link to the flagship vestship entry in the country where the movement is (apparently) still going on. SashiRolls ^{t · c} 07:25, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

I finally figured out how to fix this, though there are still two Q-points. SashiRolls ^{t · c} 12:29, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

WP:NOTEVERYTHING

I've joined Hesperian Nguyen in removing the factoid that the "No Carbon Tax Vermont" group is "composed mostly of men". It has now been sourced, but remains incredibly uninteresting. Compare WP:NOTEVERYTHING: "A Wikipedia article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details". Bishonen | talk 11:59, 31 March 2019 (UTC).

Agree with both of you. It seems trivia.--SharabSalam (talk) 12:22, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

The journalist thought it was interesting. I did too, which is why I echoed her observation in the first place. Now, it's in the quote field, which is a good place for it, I think. SashiRolls ^{t · c} 12:23, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Note that the original submission simply stated the fact that there was an event, the group behind that event, and the date of the event. Porkupine802 (talk) 04:29, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Worldwide Reactions to French State Repression

- on 06.03.2019, The UN human rights chief called for a "full investigation" into the possible excessive use of force by French police during the "yellow vest" demonstrations, condemning aggressive policing, with an extremely heavy use of bullets, hand grenades and instant teargas grenades. Ms Bachelet stating : "Their demands call for respectful dialogue and genuine reform".

- on 14.02.2019, European Parliament condemned the use of defense bullet launchers by law enforcement.

- The French League of Human Rights (LDH) established a damning report against the forces of law and order during the Yellow Vests protests, noted that the weapons used by the security forces are cataloged as weapons of war, stressing that “the shooting of grenades and bullets are more and more tense”, so that there are ” many injuries related to the shock from tear gas grenades or the explosion of hand grenades.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB14:A69:C000:E84B:2D91:8217:9143 (talk) 15:19, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2019

The number of death in Infobox is not the same as the section. 219.79.96.169 (talk) 14:02, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. NiciVampireHeart 09:27, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Unused refs

These references have been unused for a while and are kicking up errors on the page. Anyone know why they were deleted?

References

🌿 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 17:53, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Should the US be included?

The US is not marked on the map, but a protest in Vermont is listed in the article. What gives?--Adûnâi (talk) 11:59, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

About the mistakes of translation

It is said in the article "president of the very rich", but in France we use the expression "president of the rich" only. this is a "word by word" translation, but our expression is to be understood as "president of the bankers" (meaning the "rich that are against the poors", or "the rich that never mind the poors"). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB0C:83F1:AF00:9494:C97A:9032:A65D (talk) 00:44, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Populist or?

Why is reference 63 used? Its just an opinion piece. The statement that the yellow vests movement is populist is not supported by this reference. Fareed Zakaria mentions some populist plans by Steven Bannon and then only suggests the movement seems like it is populist. We have to be careful to avoid adding unsubstantiated claims about descriptions of things - Shiftchange (talk) 01:34, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes, looks like political propaganda. "Content must be written from a neutral point of view". Deleted. Wiki Tiki Tavi rus (talk) 16:04, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Agreed! this is a LEADERLESS heterogeneous popular movement, not a populist movement. To insist it’s populist is simply incorrect. That’s not to deny that there are some who make that criticism to run it down. “Populist” is a value-laden term used to disparage the movement. It’s not a question of getting worked up about anything, but a question of maintaining an objective perspective. I hope that explains my deletion from the main description. Skiddiwich (talk) 20:36, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

This has been a point of contention for quite a while, this is why references which referred to the movement as "populist" (CNN, BBC, WaPo) were put into the ref-group you've deleted three times now. I really don't think there's much point in getting worked up by the 1-syllable distinction between a "popular" and "populist" movement. Why is this important? addendum: the "grassroots" movement ref-group was made at the same time in order to provide balance between "popular" and "populist", if I remember correctly. -- SashiRolls ^{🌿 · 🍥} 09:48, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

If you can't find "distinction between a "popular" and "populist" movement" you should call it "popular". "Grassroot" doesn't provide balance. You can't balance False with even with compliment, not to mention neutral epithets like "grassroot". Wiki Tiki Tavi rus (talk) 11:38, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Ongoing?

Are these protests still going on? Is there any coverage of them in the news? I have searched but haven’t come across anything. When will an end date be added and how will one be chosen? 314WPlay (talk) 18:37, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Hopefully a reliable source will eventually say that the protests petered out by X date. The French article says (without sources) that the protests basically stopped when COVID-19 started, with only sporadic activity after that. Here's an article indicating that some activity was continuing as of May.[55] Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:43, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

@Calliopejen1: Sorry I didn't see your reply earlier as I had to check this talk page to find it. Ah thank you for the references. Interesting to see that they are continuing in a way. I thought they were a 2019 movement but maybe they will be permanent! 314WPlay (talk) 15:49, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

It is ongoing.An unimportant person (talk) 16:54, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

@Calliopejen1: The movement has been revived. During my several-hours long reading of the news yesterday morning I found this video. This could be included as a source? 314WPlay (talk) 09:01, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

@314WPlay and Calliopejen1:, there are new developments. I could find [56] and [57]. --Mhhossein ^talk 13:38, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

And this one. --Mhhossein ^talk 13:43, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

@Mhhossein: Thank you fellow Iranian. Yes I’ve seen they are making a comeback. 314WPlay (talk) 12:53, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

You're welcome 314WPlay. Probably yes! Let's see if there will be more headlines. --Mhhossein ^talk 13:12, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Should Iran be removed from the map?

There's a map of countries with yellow vest-inspired protests. Anything that talked about Iran has been removed. Why is it coloured in blue on the map then? 314WPlay (talk) 15:15, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Immigration

One of the forefront issues which the yellow vest movement has protested against has been mass immigration. Why does this article downplay that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:FA03:D400:74A6:7A76:F8C0:BF2D (talk) 15:35, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Revision of References

Some of these sources are pretty questionable. Maybe some time go through them and root out the worst of them? Taco098541 (talk) 17:31, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Why is Jacobin used as a source?

Like, seriously? I thought there was standards to credible sourcing. Taco098541 (talk) 17:56, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Timeline

The timeline was in two pages at the same time, therefore I changed the second page with a redirect: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Timeline_of_the_yellow_vests_movement&diff=1032087587&oldid=1016821132

It seems the text was put back in this article by Ionmars10 : https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yellow_vests_movement&diff=922876138&oldid=922541747

To me, one article is sufficient, but it is in any case one or the other, not both.

--Delfield (talk) 13:03, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 5 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 15:13, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

---

Yellow vests movement → Yellow vests protests – This article is (mainly) about the protests, a "movement" is something very broad and is not the (main) subject of this article. Delfield (talk) 13:19, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

French yellow vest are not anti-immigration

By the way, we had a variety of political sides both let and right. In some countries there were anti-immigration protests, but no of the sources given here seem to make believe yellow vest are a mostly, or a vastly, anti-immigration protest.

--78.193.35.108 (talk) 19:41, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

"populist" in the introduction part

Why do the authors of this article engage in such obvious, biased framing? Stay neutral and objective.

93.206.58.63 (talk) 21:36, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Completely agree. The line about the protest stopping due to police violence and protesters losing eyes and hands from blast balls. Let's stay objective and keep agenda's out of an encyclopedia. The three weak, and obviously biased sources add injury to insult. Nicholas V.I. DelCorpo (talk) 17:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Manifestants29décembre.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:51, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

The yellow vest protests are still going on

The protests of yellow vests are still going on, and the movement has not stopped even today, and especially not after March 14, 2020, which is why two or three members are constantly vandalizing this article, tying this date as the last day of the protest. Stop making fools of yourself and all of us who follow the activities of this movement from the first day of November 17, 2018. You have a bunch of mass and even violent protests that were renewed on September 12, 2020, and changing the goals of these protests. All sources and references are in place. In November and December 2020, anti-security protests were held against government measures with the participation of hundreds of thousands of people, along with hundreds of injured and maimed. In the summer of 2021, the Yellow Vests Movement was the initiator of the Protest against covid passes, also with hundreds of thousands of participants and hundreds of injured, especially from July to October. They protested in March and April this year against Macron and his opponent Marine Le Pen in the presidential elections in France. The French Wikipedia claims that the movement lasts, and I hear from many former and still active participants that the movement occasionally falls asleep and wakes up. If the Yellow Vests movement is shut down, it is certainly not March 14, 2020, when the Covid-19 pandemic movement froze its activities to reactivate them after six months from September 12 of that year and remained active during the Anti-Security Action and Protests against covid passports and presidential elections. The French claim that the protests have been alive for the fourth year.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouvement_des_Gilets_jaunes

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9roulement_du_mouvement_des_Gilets_jaunes?tableofcontents=1

— Baba Mica (talk) 21:02, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Nothing has been reported here in Australia. At the moment the Ukrainian War and its effects are centre stage which are so dire that French street protests pale into insignificance. What I was looking for are how they relate to previous protests. Aren't Macron's 'reforms' the same as what previous governments had tried? There was one minister, if I remember correctly, who'd activated an emergency paragraph to force the 'reforms' through without parliament's approval. Either the French population is averse to change or the governments are determined to push through stuff that the population cannot stomach. That should be the context, probably. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:D996:648D:FE53:8F4D (talk) 05:00, 14 January 2023 (UTC)