Talk:W. B. Yeats

Bibliography

• 1886 - Mosada
• 1888 - Fairy and Folk Tales of the Irish Peasantry
• 1889 - The Wanderings of Oisin and Other Poems
• 1891 - Representative Irish Tales
• 1891 - John Sherman and Dhoya
• 1892 - Irish Faerie Tales
• 1892 - The Countess Kathleen and Various Legends and Lyrics
• 1893 - The Celtic Twilight
• 1894 - The Land of Heart's Desire
• 1895 - Poems
• 1897 - The Secret Rose
• 1899 - The Wind Among the Reeds
• 1900 - The Shadowy Waters
• 1902 - Cathleen in Houlihan
• 1903 - Ideas of Good and Evil
• 1903 - In the Seven Woods
• 1907 - Discoveries
• 1910 - The Green Helmet and Other Poems
• 1912 - The Cutting of an Agate
• 1913 - Poems Written in Discouragement
• 1914 - Responsibilities
• 1916 - Reveries Over Childhood and Youth
• 1917 - The Wild Swans at Coole
• 1918 - Per Amica Silentia Lunae
• 1921 - Michael Robartes and the Dancer
• 1921 - Four Plays for Dancers
• 1921 - Four Years
• 1924 - The Cat and the Moon
• 1925 - A Vision
• 1926 - Estrangement
• 1926 - Autobiographies
• 1927 - October Blast
• 1928 - The Tower
• 1929 - The Winding Stair
• 1933 - The Winding Stair and Other Poems
• 1934 - Collected Plays
• 1935 - A Full Moon in March
• 1938 - New Poems

Fascism

In recent years, there’s been more discussion of Yeats and his favorable view towards fascism. I realize this is briefly touched upon (and buried deep) in this article, but given recent scholarship, I think more needs to be said. Viriditas (talk) 19:49, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Stop Removing The Infobox

Literally almost every person, living or dead, real or mythological, has an infobox. What makes W.B Yeats so special where he doesn't deserve an infobox like the rest? 2601:2C7:67F:C8F0:8E2:CEFC:D4F0:11C1 (talk) 14:22, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

There is nothing in the infobox that cannot be conveyed in the lede. And the arbitrary assignment of him to the Victorian period is an example of how the nuance is lost. Kablammo (talk) 15:24, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Basic facts such as where he died, and at which age, could be conveyed by the lead, but are not. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:49, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

I mean you could say that about any infobox at all. Reflecktor (talk) 13:15, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, and I do. Unfortunately, at present we have to say it for every article individually. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:16, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

The age can be ascertained from the first line by simple arithmetic; the locale of his death can be put in, but I don't see that it is important for the lede, and is given below. Kablammo (talk) 17:58, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

To supply the facts around birth and death is standard for encyclopedias. An infobox can actually free the prose from that clutter (what country was the birth place in history when the person was born ...?) , and whoever doesn't want to look there could simply not look. For others, it might be helpful, as recently discussed and accepted for Mozart and James Joyce. What to put in an infobox, besides those general facts, is a different discussion. As little as possible. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:12, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of these discussions on the talk page in regards to adding an infobox prior to attempting to add one today (perhaps natively, I just assumed no one had bothered to add one), but I have to say as someone who regularly edits and creates Irish biographical articles I find it most unusual that some editors are advocating for no infobox at all when infoboxes are de facto parts of almost all individual biographical pages on Wikipedia. Gerda Arendt makes a good point in clarifying that whether or not this article should have an infobox at all, and what information should be in the infobox, are two very separate conversations. It's perfectly possible for Yeats to have an infobox that doesn't have a "period" line at all, if things like the period input are the point of contention. CeltBrowne (talk) 04:39, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

If you (and the ip above) think boxes are "parts of almost all individual biographical pages on Wikipedia" you are just wrong. Maybe you spend your time looking at politicians or sportspeople. An indication of the problems is that the one you added is rather long, but gives no indication at all that he ever wrote a line of poetry. Amazing. Johnbod (talk) 14:17, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

but gives no indication at all that he ever wrote a line of poetry. Amazing

You don't have to be curt. I actually tried to use Infobox writer as the primary input with infobox officeholder added as an additional module, however infobox writer wouldn't allow a module to be added. I'm only realising now I should have used infobox person, and added both infobox writer and infobox officeholder as modules, which would have worked.

Once again, I wasn't aware of any previous attempts to add an infobox prior to my edit and what I added wasn't intended to be prefect, it was intended to give basic info and then for other editors to add in additional details.

This circles back to the point that whether or not the article should an infobox, and what goes in the infobox are two separate conversations. If an infobox is added and it's imperfect, the solution is not to remove it, but to improve it.

Maybe you spend your time looking at politicians or sportspeople.

Here are some people I'm looking at for comparison:

• James Joyce - has Infobox writer
• Samuel Beckett - has Infobox writer
• Oscar Wilde - has Infobox writer
• Seamus Heaney - has Infobox writer
• Sally Rooney - has Infobox writer

Can you show me some prominent examples of Irish writer articles without infoboxes? CeltBrowne (talk) 12:04, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

What, so you can go off there & start the same? No, thanks! Are Irish writers a species apart? That you can even put forward such a proposed box (even without thinking it "prefect") shows (as usual) the infobox proposer has no interest in the subject at all, and if there were to be a box, negotiating the right contents would be like wading through truculent treacle - see Mozart. Johnbod (talk) 14:40, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Nothing in an infobox would make the rest of the article cease to exist. Why are you opposed to a section of the article that makes it easier to glean key points and basic info? Brad (talk) 23:55, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. I have no idea why it keeps being reverted. An infobox is the de facto for every single person of note and helps readers gather quick information without having to read the entire article, like birth and death dates. Fellow Irish writers like Oscar Wilde and James Joyce have infoboxes like @CeltBrowne pointed out. The consensus is outdated and pointless. I think this is because some users are too stubborn to add something as mundane as an infobox. Cburt777 (talk) 14:55, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Is there really a "longstanding consensus" that there should be no infobox? Does anyone aside from @Kablammo and @Johnbod object? Do either of these two users have an actual, valid reason other than tradition? Many other writers and poets have infoboxes. In fact, the only "category" I know of that actually has a (however imperfect) consensus against infoboxes is composers. Brad (talk) 23:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

And artists, philosophers etc. The "de facto norm" argument so prominent here was completely exploded by the recent proposal to put this in policy, which failed miserably (I'm on holiday, you'll have to find the link yourself). Johnbod (talk) 09:22, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I just checked, off the top of my head, Picasso, Monet, O'Keeffe, Sartre, Plato, and Nietzsche, and they all have infoboxes. Brad (talk) 21:14, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree that there should be an info box and this seems to be the agreed consensus here. It makes no sense not to have one, especially as he was a senator as well as a literary talent. I didn’t realise there was a debate until my info box was removed! Heloeheod34 (talk) 21:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

His literary talents and career as a senator are mentioned in the introduction. An infobox is not needed. Kablammo (talk) 11:02, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• NB, the last full discussion is now archived: Talk:W._B._Yeats/Archive_3#Adding_an_Infobox_Writer_Template...._why_should_it_be_removed?. There was a rough consensus not to have one. Johnbod (talk) 04:16, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

D. P. Moran's assessment of Yeats

At the end of the section on Yeats' political views, there is the following sentence: 'D. P. Moran called him a minor poet and "crypto-Protestant conman.' I don't understand how this is relevant to Yeats' political views. The sentence as such only appears to express views on Yeats' literary merit, degree of religious orthodoxy and general moral character. If the idea is that a negative comment by Moran, given Moran's own political positions, is somehow diagnostic of what political position the disliked person had, this is surely too far-fetched. If Moran did say more about Yeats' politics specifically, then that is what should be quoted/retold, not just this quote. 87.126.21.225 (talk) 20:08, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Composer Marjorie Rusche Also Set Yeats’ Text to Music

This information was removed from the article: American composer Marjorie Rusche used Yeats’ text for her song “ An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.” (reference: https://www.lieder.net/lieder/get_settings.html?ComposerId=29688) T. E. Meeks (talk) 21:19, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

It seems not relevant to his biography. Perhaps create a page List of musical compositions based on works by W. B. Yeats, or a category? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:49, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

There are many poems of Yeats set to music. How do we choose them? How do we limit them? And what does the work of another artist—who set the words to music decades later—contribute to our knowledge of Yeats? I oppose any mention of them in this article. Kablammo (talk) 00:21, 17 October 2023 (UTC) Modifying my previous comment: Such information may be useful to show his legacy and influence, but should be limited to those purposes, and not devolve into a listing of such works. Kablammo (talk) 12:25, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Nor should such content be a commentary on the piece (as the text cited to this source)- that belongs elsewhere, if at all. The Waterboys have over a dozen musical adaptions of works of Yeats. Kablammo (talk) 15:53, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I agree with Gerda and Kablammo; its a beautiful piece of music, but the claim belongs on the Rusche article, esp as the proposed citations are primary. However, am inclined to include the Waterboys, especially as "when ye go away" is very well known, and the Yeats connection has often been refereed to by critics. Ceoil (talk) 00:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Kablammo (talk) 14:45, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Lake Isle of Innisfree

W.B. Yeats lived at Bedford park, Chiswick, London. On his way to work, he would walk past the island in the Thames known as Chiswick Eyot; and he said it reminded him of Innisfree. So indeed one of the greatest poems in the English language has its roots in Chiswick, London. Chuzzlewitty (talk) 06:01, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

If you have some good source(s) for your claim, you might want to raise this at The Lake Isle of Innisfree? I must say I'm a bit surprised that the poem is mentioned nowhere in this article (apart from in the W. B. Yeats template at the bottom). Martinevans123 (talk) 16:51, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Thats a good point Martin...maybe additions re major works similar to on H.D. Ceoil (talk) 14:44, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Shucks. There's no escape, is there... Martinevans123 (talk) 19:13, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

By the way, the article for "The Lake Isle of Innisfree" says this:

"... is an uninhabited island within Lough Gill, in Ireland, near which Yeats spent his summers as a child. Yeats describes the inspiration for the poem coming from a "sudden" memory of his childhood while walking down Fleet Street in London in 1888. He writes, "I had still the ambition, formed in Sligo in my of living in imitation of Thoreau on Innisfree, a little island in Lough Gill, and when walking through Fleet Street very homesick I heard a little tinkle of water and saw a fountain in a shop-window which balanced a little ball upon its jet, and began to remember lake water. From the sudden remembrance came my poem "Innisfree," my first lyric with anything in its rhythm of my own music. I had begun to loosen rhythm as an escape from rhetoric and from that emotion of the crowd that rhetoric brings, but I only understood vaguely and occasionally that I must for my special purpose use nothing but the common syntax. A couple of years later I could not have written that first line with its conventional archaism—"Arise and go"—nor the inversion of the last stanza.".."

So apparently no, not the Chiswick Eyot. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:16, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

It was been described as his "best known poem", e.g. here, here and here, etc., etc. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:01, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

References

W. B. Yeats died in Roquebrune-Cap-Martin, not in Menton

The present article says: "He died at the Hôtel Idéal Séjour, in Menton, France, on 28 January 1939, aged 73. He was buried after a discreet and private funeral at Roquebrune-Cap-Martin." The reference cites the NY Times obituary.

1) The NY Times says: "NICE, France, Jan. 29.--The death of William Butler Yeats, famous Irish poet and playwright, occurred yesterday near Mentone. Mr. Yeats, who won the Nobel Prize for literature in 1923, was 73 years old." And 'near Menton' is different than 'in Menton'. Roquebrune-Cap-Martin and Menton are two separate towns.

2) In the Roquebrune-Cap-Martin's Death Register, Yeats' death certificate [1] states (my translation): "On January 28th, 1939 at 2:30 PM died avenue Virginie Hériot, Hôtel Idéal Beauséjour, William Butler Yeats [...]". The certificate is signed by Fernand Torthe, mayor of Roquebrune-Cap-Martin.

3) There is an avenue Virginie Hériot in Roquebrune-Cap-Martin; but none in Menton.

4) The only mention of 'Menton' in Yeat's death certificate is related to the undertaker's domicile, who officially declared Yeat's death at 6 PM the same day. Billancourt (talk) 08:08, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

That all looks quite conclusive. Here's another source. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:59, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, will try and clarify on this over the weeked, and also expand a bit on the epitaph, see here. Ceoil (talk) 13:41, 1 March 2024 (UTC)