Talk:Whitney Houston/Archive 6

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Is it safe to introduce Houston in the lead sentence as one of the most influential R&B artists of the 20th century (or all time)?

Is it safe to introduce Houston in the lead sentence as one of the influential R&B artists of the 20th century (or all time)?

1. According to Billboard, Houston is the ninth greatest R&B artist of all time (second as a female).

2. Houston was inducted into the Rhythm and Blues Music Hall of Fame in 2014.

3. She was certified as the best-selling female R&B artist of the 20th century by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA).

4. Jon Caramanica, a music critic of The New York Times, called Houston "R&B's great modernizer".

5. The Independent's music critic Andy Gill also wrote about Houston's influence on modern R&B and singing competitions, comparing it to Michael Jackson's. "Because Whitney, more than any other single artist – Michael Jackson included – effectively mapped out the course of modern R&B, setting the bar for standards of soul vocalese, and creating the original template for what we now routinely refer to as the 'soul diva".

6. Essence ranked Houston at number six on the list of 50 Most Influential R&B Stars of all time, calling her "the diva to end all divas"

7. In November 2010, Billboard released its "Top 50 R&B/Hip-Hop Artists of the Past 25 Years" list and ranked Houston at number three who not only went on to earn eight number-one singles on the R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart, but also landed five number ones on R&B/Hip-Hop Albums.

References

Adding up all the sources you have placed here, it's easy to come to the conclusion (and I totally agree with that) you've brought here, but your going to need a reliable source that says that specifically. (NOTE: I have not scanned your references here) - FlightTime (open channel) 19:05, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

In addition, AP said she is one of the greatest artists of the modern era

Stop pushing Houston so hard. You are cherry-picking sources. Binksternet (talk) 06:06, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

References

How?. You seem to have a bad opinion about Houston Phạm Huy Thông (talk) 02:17, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm neutral. You are displaying a pattern of pasting more and more positive stuff on the article, overwhelming it beyond normal expansion amounts. Binksternet (talk) 03:32, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Guinness World Records for Most Awarded Female Artist

After my research with User:Apoxyomenus, it is revealed that this "world record" never existed. The source cited in this page is secondary source, not directly from the Guinness World Records. It is very likely a case of circular reporting and woozle effect, as the claim was initially added to Wikipedia in 2006 without a citation. Anybody can easily access Guinness World Records on archive.org to verify this record. I believe that this false claim should be stopped until someone can prove the existence of this record from the Guinness itself. Regards. Bluesatellite (talk) 03:02, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi. I Know that the Guinness Book thing was not real. But the books that i cited were not included Guinness information, just like the information on Michael Jackson page. Regards Phạm Huy Thông (talk) 03:14, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Being the most-awarded artist is not an opinion. When you claim someone is the most awarded, you need to provide verified number. Beyoncé has won at least 593 awards. No other singers (male or female) has won more Grammy, VMAs, NAACP Image Awards, BET Awards, and Soul Train Music Awards than Beyoncé. I'm afraid that Michael Jackson is not even the most awarded musician anymore, but it should be discussed on his page. Bluesatellite (talk) 03:39, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

So far there has been no organization involved in the statistics of the total number of awards received by artists. As far as I know, Wikipedia is a website that allows editors to get information from newspapers and books. So I think if an information is published on multiple news or books, it will probably be added to Wikipedia as in the case of Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston. However I agree that we should not claim they are the most-awarded but it's safe to say that they are among the most-awarded artists.

Newspapers and books also wrote that Michael Jackson sold 1 billion records, do we use them? No. The "most awarded artist" is a bold claim that needs fact-checking. No organizations tabulate the total number of awards received by artists, but Wikipedia awards articles do count them. You are very welcome to add missing (reliably sourced) awards in the award articles. Bluesatellite (talk) 04:55, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Phạm Huy Thông (talk) 05:07, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2021

Georgina Gibern (talk) 09:19, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Category:American people of Dutch descent Category:American people of Native American descent

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The source in the article is dead, and looks as if it would have been rather questionable when it was live. Meters (talk) 09:33, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 November 2021

Change External Links "Official website" link so it displays like this instead: WhitneyHouston.com - official website. Requesting this change because Google picks up website descriptions from Wikipedia, but it's not finding a description because the Wikipedia page only links to WhitneyHouston.com but doesn't show the website by name: https://www.google.com/search?q=https://www.whitneyhouston.com/&tbm=ilp&ilps=AOR-xxv4sFaAiTxCwwUmbldnYxKQI8Zt7w&ved=0CAEQv5AHahcKEwio95G--IH0AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg&biw=1440&bih=700&dpr=2 74.66.84.29 (talk) 19:27, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: The official website is provided using the standard {{Official website}} template as recommended at WP:ELOFFICIAL, as is done in hundreds of thousands of other Wikipedia articles. If there is an issue with the way Google is using that information, you would need to take that up with Google. Please also be aware that Wikipedia is not Google's only source of information. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 19:58, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 January 2022

173.62.178.59 (talk) 17:30, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Whitney Houston is a singer born in 1963. In 1966 she started with a girl group The Ronettes. Later in 1968, she started to join with The Crystals in songs like He’s A Rebel, and He’s Sure The Man I Love

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. - FlightTime (open channel) 17:35, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2022

She died aged 58 (not 48 as stated) according to the provided birth and death dates (1963-2012) 51.6.29.32 (talk) 20:47, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

1963-2012

63, 73, 83, 93, 03, 12 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 48 ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:54, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 June 2022

Change the resting place parameter to [[Fairview Cemetery (Westfield, New Jersey)|Fairview Cemetery]] to avoid disambiguation in the infobox 218.250.57.55 (talk) 13:35, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:59, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2022

For the parent section her father was John Houston Jr. (September 13, 1920 - February 2, 2003)

Her father had a child before marriage so her other half brother is John Houston III (January 14, 1943 - January 9, 2021) 2601:CA:C201:3A0:AD2E:907E:3A0:44A (talk) 06:20, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Generally, only notable people are listed in those infobox parameters. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:40, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 December 2022

41.246.128.132 (talk) 21:58, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Whitney Houston was named the most awarded female artist by the Guinness World Book of Records in 2009.

 Not done: The article already says she holds 28 Guinness world records. RudolfRed (talk) 23:29, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2023

Please change any links that still go by “I Wanna Dance with Somebody (film)” to the current title Whitney Houston: I Wanna Dance with Somebody 108.41.81.126 (talk) 08:15, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Done. --Mvqr (talk) 12:15, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Capitalize Black

Why is Black in lowercase though-out this article 2600:1008:B15D:EB02:1820:FCDC:42C1:50C6 (talk) 17:43, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 February 2023

Request minor grammar change for clarity

In intro section, change "(which took place the following day of her death)" to "(which took place the day following her death)" Jajrzi (talk) 22:45, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

done--FMSky (talk) 23:24, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 March 2023

Possible addition: It was reported that, in 1976, Whitney Houston was the first black woman to eat a croissant, causing an obsession with all things croissant. Ingo loves Erika. IngoD124 (talk) 10:36, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Please provide a source for this claim, which is pretty unlikely. --Mvqr (talk) 10:59, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 April 2023

At the end of the first paragraph of the main article (the lead) add the following sentence: She died in her bathtub. 118.149.81.116 (talk) 10:06, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Not done. The details of her death are covered in "Death and funeral". It is not significant enough for the lead. --Mvqr (talk) 11:20, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Vocal Type: Please protect.

I changed Whitney's vocal type to "mezzo-soprano", as it had been before, and cited three reliable sources stating such. Before, someone had changed it to "spinto-soprano", ignoring two sources that stated "mezzo" and including a completely unreliable source: a Tumblr blog. I just found that my edit has been reverted back to "spinto" while, again, completely ignoring my three sources and not providing any reliable sources of their own. This same problem occurred on Anita Baker's page, which was subsequently protected. Please apply protection here. FreeSpirit80 (talk) 05:08, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Father not listed under Quick Facts

Article is clear that John Russell Houston Jr. is her father. I'm new here, so I wanted to ask why he isn't shown under Quick Facts, rather than just editing that section. Thank you. Rjshurie (talk) 02:12, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Her father is not independently notable. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 17:12, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Nickname

@FMSky @Popcornfud

This is pretty simple. I am not sure why there is an edit war going on. Her nickname was “The Voice”. This was established many years ago before the television show of the same name. By removing “The” from it, you have changed her nickname to something that does not exist (“Voice”). This is not correct by all accounts and references. It needs to remain as “The Voice”. ThatFungi (talk) 17:20, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. - FlightTime (open channel) 17:29, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

MOS:NICKNAMETHE specifies lower case for nicknames in running prose: the Voice versus The Voice. Is that the issue? Because all I'm seeing is a needless edit war over a piped link. Binksternet (talk) 17:30, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

I changed "The Voice" to "the Voice". This is correct per the MOS:NICKNAMETHE policy, as I already explained when ThatFungi complained on my talk page.

I don't understand this argument about "changing her nickname to something that does not exist". In fact I don't understand the debate here at all... Popcornfud (talk) 18:08, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

@Popcornfud I posted here because you are involved in what is about to become an edit war. It has never been changed in a long time. So this is to have the discussion for you and @FMSky to have before you hit 3RR. ThatFungi (talk) 00:01, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Edit war over what? What is the issue you want to resolve? Popcornfud (talk) 00:04, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

@Popcornfud you both made 2 changes a piece to the same part arguing about “the” vs “The”. It was recommended by another user when they reverted it for the two of you to take it to a discussion. That’s what this is about. ThatFungi (talk) 00:15, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I also want to point out that possibly the person who put those in determined it to be used as a pseudonym. Those types can have (in American English) “The” starting the nickname. ThatFungi (talk) 00:08, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I think you are possibly confused.

FMSky reverted a change that has nothing to do with "the" vs "The".

The current article uses a lowercase "the" in accordance with MOS:NICKNAMETHE. FMSky did not alter that in their revert. Popcornfud (talk) 01:26, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Ok I can accept that. However still looking at it from a pseudonym perspective the being capitalized is acceptable. If you look at the article for the nicknames a lot of them use a capital The. ThatFungi (talk) 01:35, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

We have a policy that says we shouldn't do that for nicknames, so those nicknames shouldn't use a capital "The", either.

We have no policy that makes an exception for pseudonyms. It sounds like you just don't like the MOS:THECAPS policy generally. Popcornfud (talk) 01:39, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I never said that. I’m looking at both sides of what it can be. It is also not a policy. It is a guideline which also states that exceptions can be made.

This guideline is a part of the English Wikipedia's Manual of Style.

It is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptionsmay apply. Any substantive edit to this page should reflect consensus. When in doubt, discuss first on the talk page. ThatFungi (talk) 01:43, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

No you didn't change "The Voice" to "the Voice". You changed the nickname to a completely meaningless ' the "Voice" ' Phạm Huy Thông (talk) 15:55, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

That's grammatically correct. The definite article ("the") is not part of the proper noun, any more than it is with "the White House". Popcornfud (talk) 16:37, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

But does it has a meaning for a popular music nickname? Phạm Huy Thông (talk) 19:03, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

The nickname is two words: "the Voice". Binksternet (talk) 21:08, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying. But it's not as simple as you think.

Allow me to use another, infamous example. The band name the Beatles uses the definite article ("the") but "the" is not part of the proper noun itself — just as "the" is not part of the proper noun White House in the sentence "Yesterday I visited the White House".

This is also why "the" in "the Beatles" shouldn't be capitalized — and why, if you were going to put it in quotes for some reason, you should write the "Beatles", not "the Beatles".

All of this also applies to the Voice, which should be the "Voice". That's assuming, of course, that a nickname needs to be written in quotation marks at all. Does it?

However, this is all academic and I don't really care just so long as we don't write "The Voice", which Pham reverted back to in opposition to MOS:NICKNAMETHE. Popcornfud (talk) 21:41, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

The Beatles example doesn't work so well here because it's a band name rather than a nickname. Formulations such as "ex-Beatle Ringo" or "Beatles-style haircut" show the fluidity of the band name. No such fluidity is present in the nickname. Binksternet (talk) 22:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't matter. The point of my Beatles example is that there is no special exception for band names. The logic that applies to the Beatles is the same logic that applies to the names of buildings (like the White House), restaurants (like the Fat Duck), institutions (like the BBC), and anything else. So why should nicknames that use the definite article be different?

If Houston had instead been known entirely as the Voice, and people started getting haircuts like her, then they would be called Voice-style haircuts, same as the Beatles etc. Popcornfud (talk) 22:44, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Whitney's nickname has two words that is The Voice. Nobody will call her "Voice". So that doesn't make any sense 103.253.90.69 (talk) 01:59, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

I think you should include a section of singers who influenced her

I think you should include a section of singers who influenced her 105.232.5.109 (talk) 17:17, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2023

41.145.193.181 (talk) 18:43, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

In 2014, ABC named Whitney Houston the greatest woman in music. Houston is also the most awarded female artist of all time, according to the Guinness World Book of Records.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. - FlightTime (open channel) 18:44, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

<a href="https://gclubfish888.com/">จีคลับ888</a> 2405:9800:BC01:3DFC:196:3AE:AED7:16F6 (talk) 04:35, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 October 2023

“It has since went on to sell” is grammatically incorrect, it should read “It has since GONE on to sell” 173.63.181.58 (talk) 01:38, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done Tollens (talk) 02:01, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Jessie J to be added to the list of artists who mention Whitney's influence

Wanted to edit the page to add this but I can't (unregistered etc). On Nov.1 2023 during a live at the Baloise Session in Bâle/Swiss Jessie J covered "I have nothing" and then said to the audience that Whitney Houston is the reason why she decided she wanted to be a singer. HUGE influence I'd say. Here's the source link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=634STSiQYl8&t=3079s (feel free to go a few minutes back to listen to her amazing cover)

Well, here you go. If someone who can edit this page wants to add Jessie J's name to the other ones under "Legacy and influence" do what you will. :)

Take care everyone.

EDIT: wow, look at the CAPTCHA I must solve to post this, I mean... really? https://imgur.com/a/OFlHQrW 2A02:8428:3343:5601:ACAA:AB04:5464:25E (talk) 03:21, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Constant edit warring

This article continues to be ruined by edit warring by The Raincloud Kid (talk · contribs) mostly because of "simplified info" as the reason by removing added content. They were blocked due to this, but something else needs to come up as a solution to stop this. Phạm Huy Thông (talk · contribs) continues to go back and forth with this user as they did in a recent edit, like again for the block. TheGreatestLuvofAll ( chat with me ) 05:39, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

"a tumultuous marriage" should not describe a domestic abuse situation

Whitney Houston has clearly stated that her ex-husband was abusive (ex: https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/whitney-houston-discusses-bobby-brown-oprah-winfrey/story?id=8568203), he hit her, spit on her, etc. Even rarer, the abuser has himself admitted to hitting her (https://people.com/celebrity/bobby-brown-admits-hitting-whitney-houston-details-couples-drug-usage/).

Can we stop using words like "tumultuous marriage" (volatile marriage, etc) when describing domestic abuse towards women? It denies their reality, and makes them part of the problem. Subconsciously it even makes them the issue in the story: "she had drug abuse and she was in a tumultuous marriage", which implies that she chose to be hit, beaten up and spit on.

It also makes the whole thing almost glamorous and sexy, it's tumultuous, it's passionate. That's how feminicides are still sometimes presented, crimes of passion, while they are not.

Synonyms of tumultuous are: tempestuous stormy turbulent in turmoil passionate intense

None of these apply to a domestic abuse situation.

We now know better, victims of domestic abuse can stay decades in abusive relationships for many, many reasons, including society not believing them or helping them. Can we present the facts as they are, she was in an abusive domestic relationship.

Or, she was in an alleged abusive domestic relationship, if you want to stay as neutral as possible. Zelottine (talk) 13:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)