This is an archive of past discussions about Vienna. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
The two obvious ones should remain in the first paragraph. There is historical context that gives value to the others, but they don't need to clutter up the beginning, I'll move them to the end. (For various Austrian monarchs, their alternative names are also listed after the content.) --Shallot 23:16, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)
It’s particularly relevant to include Vienna’s name in other Central European languages, given the city’s history as an imperial capital to so many nationalities in the region. Certainly it’s appropriate to mention them in the tongues of the former crownlands, at least the more major ones. -- GJK 10:45, 18 Oct 2005 (GMT+1)
Can anyone explain to me why reorganizing this article automatically means removing all but one photograph? <KF> 14:24, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)
As much as I hate to say it... This article needs some NPOV work. Sentences such as Excellent, enormous and authentic Wiener Schnitzels are available at the Figlmüller restaurant (Bäckerstraße 6) are simply blatant point of view, and not fact! -newkai | talk | contribs19:09, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
A similar reference to Figlmüller was removed from the german Vienna article some time ago. I do not see the value of that information either. Tomst07:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Translations of Vienna
I really don't like how the translations of "Vienna" clutter the introduction. I would suggest we move that to another section all on its own, and provide maybe only one or two in the introduction (German, Czech, Hungarian maybe?) - grubber17:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for moving the translations to the infobox! However, I am wondering if all those translations fit here. I quite like the translations into central european languages and english, but why are Swahili, Dutch, Greek, and Afrikaans listed? I'd rather keep the list short. --tomst | talk14:33, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
By my calculations, Vienna has the dubious honour, if Iran positions missiles in the far north western corner of Iran of being the most distant and most important European city that can be threatened with atomic destruction by Tehran's world-famously lovely politicians in a few year time, with current missile technology. I don't suppose anyone in Vienna has actually noticed this? (Good job the Israelis have.) Iran won't attack, of course, but at least the Vienna papers would shy from "depicting" the prophet. --LeedsKing11:52, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Austrias "Neutrality shield" would be activated and no such missile will ever reach the city.
I don't think that this is a real big problem, because we are not in the NATO or declare war to any country which wont give us oil.
We don't think that if the iran produces perhaps 5 rockets per year that they would attack us because we don't have such big prodlems with the Iran like Israel etc.
Complement EU
On December 16, 2004, The World Factbook, a publication of the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) added an entry for the European Union. [1] According to the CIA, the European Union was added because the EU "continues to accrue more nation-like characteristics for itself". Their reasoning was explained in this small statement in the introduction:
The evolution of the European Union (EU) from a regional economic agreement among six neighboring states in 1951 to today's supranational organization of 25 countries across the European continent stands as an unprecedented phenomenon in the annals of history...
... for such a large number of nation-states to cede some of their sovereignty to an overarching entity is truly unique...
... the EU ... has many of the attributes associated with independent nations: its own flag, anthem, founding date, and currency, as well as an incipient common foreign and security policy in its dealings with other nations. In the future, many of these nation-like characteristics are likely to be expanded. Thus, inclusion of basic intelligence on the EU has been deemed appropriate as a new, separate entity in The World Factbook. However, because of the EU's special status, this description is placed after the regular country entries.
I might add that EU citizens have EU- numberplates, -passports, drivinglicense, the EU institutions, and regular election. I hope you support the small extension I made... all the best Lear 2118:41, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Vienna's vineyards
Vienna is not the only city with its own vineyards. Paris has them too, on the Montmartre Hill.
Paris, it seems, has only one vineyard [2]. So, the statement that Vienna is the only capital with vineyards (plural) is actually correct, although it is a bit confusing. I'll add a note about Paris. --Stemonitis09:39, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Cathedral?
I tought that Steffl is one of the most famoust vienna sights but there is no picture of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.200.89.32 (talk)
You're absolutely right of course. I have replaced a picture of a flak tower (not such an important tourist attraction, although interesting in their own way) with one of the Stephansdom. --Stemonitis14:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
nations
There are a lot of nationalities living in vienna but there is no any nummber about it.(although there are per cents of religius in vienna) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.200.89.175 (talk) 13:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Note to Translators
To anyone who's involved in translating text for this page, please bear a couple of things in mind when you are translating:
You don't need to literally translate every single bit of German. In fact, many German speakers tend to waffle, especially when writing. It's dreadful enough in German :) Call a spade a spade, not "an earth relocation implement". Chop out all redundant "bla bla".
Don't leave the German sentence structure; the English ends up being very stilted. Rephrase things and split up sentences if necessary.
Don't translate all the awful marketing bla bla that's probably been added to the German by the Vienna tourist board or whoever. Wiki is an encyclopaedia (e.g. Nachteulen die Nightline fahren).
Read through the English when you're translated it, and correct it as though it were an English text. It is very important for the translated text to read as though it was actually originally written in English. If English isn't your mother tongue, get someone to proofread the text for you who is a native speaker. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Steevm (talk • contribs) 02:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC).
A couple of other points if I may:
Please provide explanations when the original text refers to things (e.g. places, people etc) which are familiar to most German speakers but may not be to English speakers.
If German is your native language, consider translating articles from English into German as well - not only is this likely to be easier, but there is a wealth of material you can get working on - whereas pickings are relatively slim the other way round - since the English Wiki is currently bigger than the German. Lfh20:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
# of visitors
User:Stemonitis, please check the source before you revert corrections. According to the given statistics [3] each of the mentioned museums has more than 280,000 visitors, not 250,000.
Ah, I see the source of the misunderstanding. The original text was poorly worded (almost certainly my fault); I think the implication was meant to be that each of the attractions in that paragraph had more than 250,000, not just the last sentence, so including the Kunstforum. --Stemonitis17:53, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
oh, well then sorry about that. Maybe we should make it more clear then that the number also refers to the art galleries, and not only to the popular museums. --Spitzl18:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
No need to apologise; it's my fault entirely. It dates from an attempt of mine (which I think succeeded in general terms) to establish a list of attractions determined by some objective criterion which could be referenced. I'll be happy as long as the article accurately reflects the sources and as long as it doesn't slip back to the state of every editor adding his favourite museum (and there are a lot to choose from). Actually, that should be referenced somewhere, that Vienna has more museums than any other city, according to some claims, although I forget whose claims those are. --Stemonitis18:24, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I now rephrased the paragraph and added the number of museums (figures for 2004). I also replaced the Hofburg (which is already mentioned above) with the rather important Leopold Museum. Btw, the Museumsquartier itself is not a museum but a cultural area where many museums are located. --Spitzl10:18, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Good work. And yes, I know the Museumsquartier; I've been to something like 150 museums in Vienna. --Stemonitis10:27, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
One thing that seems to be missing in this article is the wide range of media companies, such as tv and radio stations. There is a whole paragraph in the german article about it. --Spitzl08:52, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Is this a notable subject? I have been copyediting another article that refers to a band (Baccara) having a memorial along Vienna's Walk of the Stars, and was hoping to wikilink it... but nothing found. Maybe this could be added by someone who knows a bit more about it than I do? Regards 80.229.35.229 13:01, 25 June 2007 (UTC) (edit)EyeSereneTALK13:02, 25 June 2007 (UTC) (damn computer auto-logged me out!)
Extensive Source
Note this source of www.tourmycountry.com/austria/background.htm general information on Austria and particularly www.tourmycountry.com/austria/vienna.htm sightseeing in Vienna.
Secondly, I would suggest a clean-up in the external links section - advertisements seem not appropriate to me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.232.66.24 (talk) 10:28, 11 May 2007 (UTC).
"Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are famous because they are associated with or significantly contributed to the list topic, for example Nixon's Enemies List."
Being a capital city, obviously loads of well known people have lived there at some time - from Adolf Hitler to Bryan Adams; from various emperors to Friedrich Hundertwasser, Sigmund Freud and Gustav Klimt. Whether listing them all (and hundreds of others) adds to the article in a constructive manner is something I severely doubt. Ideally, if they are particularly significant, they belong in the article itself - either under culture, tourist attractions or history (as the case may be). btw, I'd actually associate Mozart (who is one of the two listed) more with Salzburg than Vienna.
As a side note, other city articles, such as New York City and London don't have any such a list in them. So I'd be all in favour of removing the list from the Vienna article, rather than expanding it. Any reason not to do this? :) Steevm00:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
The article is tagged as requiring references. I think it would be great if the missing references could be tagged in the text itself (or at least tag the sections, not the whole article), so that we know what needs to be sourced, rather than the entire article.
I'd agree that there aren't enough references for an article of this size, but I'd like to have some sort of guidance as to what needs to be referenced. That way I can actually see if I can find something. There's quite a lot of information in this article that is (to me at least) quite simply common knowledge. Steevm17:08, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Removing the template in absence of any specific guidance on what needs referencing. I have just scanned the article and see nothing that looks doubtful. -- Rob C. alias Alarob00:42, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
History
"Adolf Hitler lived in Vienna from 1907 until 1913. The Academy Of Fine Arts of the city rejected him as a student. When Hitler became broke and homeless he stayed at homeless shelters like the one on the Meldemann Strasse."
I know that Hitler's years in Vienna had quite an important effect on him, however is this really neccessary for this article? The 'History of Vienna' article does not mention his years in Vienna at all and it is much longer than this section.
It's just a thought, I guess you don't have to agree with me
Quite right! Vienna may have been important to Hitler, but Hitler was not so very important to Vienna (at least no more so than many other cities in Central Europe). Certainly, Hitler's youth had no discernible effect on the city, and should not be mentioned here. --Stemonitis14:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I have removed that bit, since I agree it isn't really relevant. However I wrote a new sentence mentioning his presence and the importance it had on him, since that (shorter version) does seem quite interesting and relevant as Vienna was a very multicultural imperial hub at the time. Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that he learned to hate Jews in Vienna so I think that's important. Dmhaglund11:55, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
On second thought, above users are right. I have now removed the sentence about Hitler's youth from the history section. That information is best suited in the article about Hitler. Users please note I've extended the history section somewhat to encompass the 20th Century, which was previously given short shrift; I hope it isn't too long here. Dmhaglund12:02, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
"Fine Cuisine"
Just noticed the history bit claims Vienna was known for its fine cuisine under the Hapsburg Empire. I've never heard this claim anywhere before - can anyone attest to its accuracy? Even if it is accurate it doesn't seem relevant so I will delete it within a few days unless I hear strenuous objections for some reasons. Dmhaglund09:59, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Don't think so, because the gloriette is neither a major sight nor THAT impotant anyway. (It is part of the schönbrunner tiergarten). I think it would be better if there was a picture of the st.stephans. or something. I personally like this picture very much (http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/00233/wien_uebersicht_DW__233664g.jpg) but I am not that familiar with uploading or getting the license for pictures. it would be nice if someone more experienced would do that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacky89~enwiki (talk) 19:10, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Missing
There is no geography section in the article and climate data is also missing. I looked up the average monthly temperatures for Vienna: [4]. If anyone knows how to make nice tables and charts, please don't hesitate to help out. Thanks, (Einstein00 (talk) 19:36, 21 January 2008 (UTC))
The ULF tram stock, designed by Porsche and built by Siemens boasts an entry height of 180 mm (7 in), the lowest in the world.
Huh? What does entry height mean? What does this have to do with Vienna? Makes me wonder if it is an odd little specialed ad placement. --NealMcB (talk) 01:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
The entry hieght is the distance from the ground to the top side of the floor where the door is. In other words how high off the ground you'd be when you stepped in. Lower is better because it makes it easier to get in.(86.31.191.26 (talk) 00:08, 9 July 2008 (UTC))
I think the flag on the German version is correct, while the one here is just the state flag. So, I am planning to change it. Tomeasytalk21:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
There are a number of books on the negotiations leading up to the Austrian State Treaty which might shed some light on why the Soviets didn't blockade Vienna at the time of the Berlin blockade. It transpired that The Soviets were willing to pull out of Eastern Austria in return for a neutral constitution, as a second best to having the western sectors forming a NATO bridge between West Germany and Italy. That would of course have been the consequence if the Soviets had successfully blockaded Western Vienna in 1948/49. Others have argued that the Berlin blockade was 'ad hoc', specifically over the currency question and that the argument did not involve Austria or Vienna. Nevertheless there were some minor disruptions on the land access roads to Western Vienna during the Berlin blockade, but these never amounted to a wholesale blockade. David Tombe (talk) 14:56, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
[/viːn/]
Just a quick question - I was under the impression that you couldn't have slashes inside brackets with IPA notation. Notations are either in slashes or in brackets, because they represent different things: /x/ represents the phoneme and [x] the allophone... /x/ -> [y]/z...
These two are supposed to be standard sections for city articles. Right now no information is installed about these issues at the Vienna article. Instead it rather concentrates to appear like a tourist brochure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.53.9.43 (talk) 12:39, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
"Metroploitan Area" or "Urban Area"
The number here, about the population of the metropolitan area is, as far I understand the information on the Homepage, where the numbers are from"NUTS 3 mit Gemeinden, Flächen und Bevölkerung" (in German). Statistik Austria. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help), that these numbers represent more the urban area than the metropolitan area?
Correct me if i am wrong, but i think in the metropolitan area are also cities included, wich are closely affiliated to the city, but are not in the urban area, like Baden, or even Wiener Neustadt, or even Bratislava, in that case.
The main picture is, despite the recent change, still not very good; no real subject, rather dark and gloomy, altogether somewhat undistinguished. What about this one?:
The first picture is supposed to repesent an article. In this case it does not. Is this really the best pic with got of Vienna? What about one with the Stephansdom, Riesenrad or even Schönbrunn? Reidlos (talk) 18:05, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Pronounciation
I haven't found any citations where Wien is pronounced "Wean." As far as I've found on the internet, and after discussing it with a friend who is a college professor teaching classes on Austria who lives there half the year, it is always pronounced "Veen" when it is spelled "Wien." Vocalizing the "w" would be a mispronounciation.
--Rotellam1 (talk) 14:54, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
In Austrian High German, Wien is pronounced Veen, with a v like in verb, not Wean. The pronunciation of written Wean, which is pure Viennese dialect, is Varn. --Wolfgang J. Kraus (talk) 15:01, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Either way it should be removed. This is ridiculous. A colloquial / slang pronunciation has no place in a written resource. If there are no convincing objections I will do so within a few days. --IGreil (talk) 14:15, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
Although there are probably now less links than 2 years ago, I'm very inclined to remove all links to tourism sites apart from the official Vienna Tourist Board. It's not that the couple of sites currently in the list of external links are bad sites; just that this article is about Vienna, not "Visiting Vienna as a Tourist". Furthermore, if you allow one site to be listed, it creates problems when other, similar, sites are later added. After all, you need to draw the line somewhere.
What do others think? I don't just want to go ahead and delete the links; I think it would be good to reach a consensus and maybe add an appropriate comment to the external links section. Steevm03:46, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Why is it by such a huge margin that Vienna is Austria's most populous city? I tried to calculate how many of the next bigger cities put together have the same population as Vienna by itself, but stopped counting at about fifteen. In contrast, in Finland, Helsinki is only less than one and a half times as big as Espoo and Tampere put together, and smaller than Espoo, Tampere and Vantaa put together. What makes Vienna so special in Austria? JIP | Talk20:02, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Some of the reasons should be fairly logical - it's got a better geographical position that most others in Austria, and it was the center of a large empire for centuries. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 11:43, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
If you include the cities in the former Austro-Hungarian empire, you'll notice that the sizes fit the rule of thumb of 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5 etc. size. The dissolution of the empire after WWI created this disparity. 84.114.214.144 (talk) 03:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Bratislava = Twin City?
Along with nearby Bratislava, Vienna forms a metropolitan region with 3 million inhabitants, and this region is referred to as Twin City.
The wikipedia page for Twin_cities_(geographical_proximity) does not list Vienna and Bratislava, however I find its criteria somewhat erratic. I had however come across this term several times before coming to live in the city. But I believe I only saw the reference in guide books. The only immediate commercial reference to the Twin Cities that comes to mind is the Twin City Liner. I have a faint memory that the trains linking the capitals may also share a similar designation. Of course, the cities are also twinned.
Thinking about it, the term quite neatly applies as both cities are linked very well to one another by road, rail and indeed river. Their airports provide complimentary roles. They are the closest two capital cities in Europe (at about 65 km between them). I don't believe they need share much more for such a qualification. Samluke777 (talk) 01:53, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm not entirely convinced. I mean, is proximity all it takes? Take Dallas / Fort Worth: Have you ever heard anybody refer to the "Vienna / Bratislava region"? I certainly haven't. Or to stay in Europe: Monaco is about 20 km away from Nice, France. Are they "twin cities"? To me the term also seems to suggest (if loosely) an equality in size or importance. Bratislava has been a European capital for less than 20 years, and is less than one fourth of the size of Vienna. IGreil (talk) 07:20, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
This is just mumbo-jumbo being churned out the likes of the WKO (Chamber of Commerce) and tourist board, who are trying to promote the area. While it is true that the two cities are very close together and that many cheap airlines fly from Bratislava and provide transfers to Vienna, to call the area the "twin city" area is IMO a spurious claim - it's just marketing and no one actually refers to them as such in normal conversation. 84.114.214.144 (talk) 03:20, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Skyline Image Collage Caption?
Could someone with knowledge of Vienna provide the names of the locations shown in the Vienna skyline collage in the infobox? For the moment I have inserted an internal comment to attract people’s attention to the lack, but I thought it good to put something on the talk page. AnjwalkerTalk10:09, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Can you tell us which image(s) you're talking about. I'd rather not guess and a quick search for skyline in the article returns zilch. 84.114.214.144 (talk) 03:23, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Ah, d'you just mean the normal images at the start of the article? It looks like the info is there now. I'd say that only the second from last image shows the skyline ;) 84.114.214.144 (talk) 03:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Adding HRE task force link onto the page
Considering that Berlin (not just the history, but the city as a whole) was added onto the HRE task force, and was still on there after revisions, I wanted to see if it was okay that if I add the HRE task force onto the page. Considering that It was the capital for it, and had a huge history in the HRE (and the Habsburgs) I feel that it should be on the scope. I was going to add Prague as well, and maybe Aachen, but see how it went here, considering Vienna had the most significance in the HRE in terms of capitals. LeftAire (talk) 15:51, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Climate data way out of date
The climate data is averages from the 1970s!!! With clear evidence of global warming the last 10 years should be giving the current data. A look here shows temps reach 36 degrees - a lot more than is suggested by the data in the article now. An encyclopeia should be upto date and make it clear what the weather IS. And not what is WAS:
The section on the Habsbergs seems pitifully short, considering their importance in the history of the development of classical music. In fact, the whole wiki seems light on classical music, considering Vienna's importance to classical music (and vice versa). Perhaps someone familiar with these topics - the Habsbergs and classical music - could expand this? 121.220.146.71 (talk) 08:01, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, Hamburg and Berlin certainly are. And I don't think it's important to rank it in this way in the introduction anyway. Tfine8020:05, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
Robertbyrne: According to that website, that city population of Vienna is larger than that of either Frankfurt or Munich (much larger than that of Frankfurt, which has a population of 643.000 only). Things look different if you look at agglomerations, where there are several larger ones in Germany. Martg7621:30, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
As far as I know, it's #3 after Berlin and Hamburg. #4 is Munich. -newkai | talk | contribs 03:34, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
Munich and Frankfurt are both smaller than Vienna, Hamburg is almost equal in population... the only german-speaking city that is really bigger than Vienna is Berlin --Asdfking12308:26, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
In the previous versions, climate data was used from the weather station Hohe Warte for the time period 1971-2000. Hohe Warte is pretty outside the city center and is located on a hill. Thus, temperatures are on average lower than in the rest of Vienna. Instead of adopting the cooler values from Hohe Warte, the weather station Innere Stadt (city center) should be used. I've included the values from Innere Stadt and updated the sunshine hours. Spaceflo.L8 (talk) 00:07, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Spaceflo.L8
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I am wondering why picture 13-08-30-wien-by-RalfR-123.jpg was selected as top picture of Vienna? I think instead of showing these recently built sky scrapers, a picture of the 'Stephansdom' (the major sight of Vienna) should be placed there. Spaceflo.L8 (talk) 23:55, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
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The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Vienna/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Rated Start for WP:CITY This article has a lot of content with a few sources cited.
Improve structure by reducing sub sections in favor of complete paragraphs under main headings.
Cite sources, using proper formatting, for fact stated.WP:FOOTWP:CITET
Choose one infobox for the article. Preferably {{Infobox City}}.
Last edited at 22:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC).
Substituted at 09:57, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Undue weight of Stephansdom in Vienna's montage
User:Braveheart has decided that the Stephansdom is the most important building in Vienna, and persists in imposing for the photographic montage supposed to be representative of the city, a huge Stephansdom occupying about 2/3 of the area on top of minute pictures of the Rathaus, Schönbrunn and the Parlament. I have reverted this and will revert it again, if necessary. If Braveheart wishes to put the Stephansdom first (because it's older?) I have no objection. But the picture should be of reasonable size, comparable to the other pictures. Sapphorain (talk) 17:58, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
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I don't think this section really fits in the "Culture" part of the article... maybe we should make a completely new sections on people who have been born and have lived in Vienna and add all the musicians, writers and politicians to that new section?Ladoucelette (talk) 11:19, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
Getь up to start ! )
Пора! Пойдём от Вены и до Ницы. Любезно вывалив каменья на вечно затопляемые поля Франции.
Далее - Кордильеры и Перьинеи. Любезно вывалив каменья на поля - Франции, Англии, и на другие берега!
Не может быть штобы ничего не изменилось !!
Пойдут свежие ветра насыщенные кислородом, иодом и всякими добрами. До Урала.
А што нам?? Перестанет дуть западный Арктический ветер. Дуть будет Португальский!
P.S. Можно будет и в Марокко развалить! Если што ..
Springpfühler, thank-you for adding the updated figures and citation for the 2018 religious demographics. I replaced the citation to point to the Vienna 2019 Statistical Yearbook, which is the original source, I hope that's ok.
Two editors, 2601:600:807f:ef0:389a:a8c:721d:ae02 (talk) and I, have added another citation, of the study conducted by the Vienna Institute of Demography,[1] but you have removed it three times now: [5], [6], [7]. I have re-added it per WP:NPOV: Wikipedia represents "fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.", and changed the text to list all the groups, not only Muslims. We don't include only the "official" estimates - which in the case of the Yearbook are not made by the city itself, but provided by the religious organizations. In the case of the number of Muslims, the estimate by the Islamische Religionsgemeinde Wien (I can't find any information about them except their Facebook page that seems abandoned) is not even listed in the table like the other figures, but only as a footnote in the PDF, and not included at all on this page: [8]. So it doesn't seem any more reliable than the Institute of Demography's estimate.
The article has also included information from other "non-official" studies like the one by the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis, which has been present for six years without objection. The Vienna Institute of Demography is part of the Austrian Academy of Sciences, and the study was carried out using scientific methods and population models. More information about the methodology can be found here: [9]. Your having personal knowledge about Vienna, and believing it "is NOT a Muslim city" are not valid reasons to delete this sourced content. If you feel that the source is not reliable, I would ask that you start a discussion at WP:RSN about it, before removing it for a fourth time. Thank you. --IamNotU (talk) 19:18, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
This seems wrong since Austria was neutral as a condition of
Soviet withdrawal from Austria.
During the Cold War, Vienna was seen as a Western bulwark against the surrounding forces of Communism, and was a hotbed of international espionage.
this definitely needs some love...hopefully from someone who lives there...
How about a cleanup tag? --Rednaxela 12:01, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Any particular reason for this? The remark you are responding to was made in October 2002, and the page has changed a lot since then. Martg76 18:23, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The one world lines along the left of the infobox certainly caught my eye, plus the large number of lists there are in this article. Just a little bit of pruning here and there? --Rednaxela 15:50, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
User:213.152.56.60added the claim that the name comes from from the Celtic Uindobona 'Fair Bottomland' , but does not give a source. The Encyclopedia Britannica says that the Celtic name "Vindobona" means "white field". For the moment, I have removed the translation. --Austrian21:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
You have to make a distinction between the Roman military castle, which was called vindobona and was in the same place as now is Viennas first district - the city center, and the older civil settlement. 62.178.137.216 (talk) 18:42, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
I`ve lately heard, that the name of the little river "Wien" (same name as the city) may derive from a celtic word which means something like "river in the Woodland". 62.178.137.216 (talk) 18:45, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Both windobona and wedunia are Celtic - just because the Romans called their fort "Vindobona" does not mean that it was Latin. Bona in modern Gaelic is bun "bottom, base", including the area that is at the bottom of hills, mountains, cliffs, and so on. The Encyclopedia Britannica's researcher made a mistake, in that "White Field" would have been windomagos (Modern Gaelic fionnmhagh). --Roidhrigh 12:09, 24 April 2012
The linguistic origin of the name Vindobona has nothing to do neither with Celts nor Romans. Vindobona is remake from Baltic Vandā-būna, where vandā 'water' (Lithuanian vanduo 'water', cf. Curonian region Bandava<*Vandava (between river Venta and the Baltic sea), Latvian willage Vandāni (near river Daugava)) and būna 'is (situated), is located (at/on)' (Lithuanian būna 'is, exists'), so the city name means 'located at the water', logically, isn't? - knowing the city being located at the river. It's absurd to search for Celtic or Roman names in former Baltic inhabited areas. Almost all ancient East and Central European place names are of Baltic origin! E.g. Dresden goes back to Old Prussian tresde 'thrush, blackbird' (Latvian strazds), Leipzig goes back to leipa 'lime-tree' (Latvian liepa), Oswencim/Auschwitz goes back to Asvīn ciemasHorse village', etc. Czech Vídeň goes back to Vendene, cf. Latvian former city name Vendene, now renamed to Cēsis (city is at the river Gauja). Vendene derives from the same vandā 'water'. Roberts7 14:24, 6 June 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roberts7 (talk • contribs)
Vindobona its pure latin name i thing, bona (bone, bueno) is good and Vin as in (In vino veritas: In wine there is truth) Vino do bona can be trascripted as I give good wine, so its city with good wine. Wienna, víno, wine.... Bynk91.127.226.103 (talk) 18:08, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Variety of English
I reverted an edit by Gadge888 about the variety of English spelling (i.e. British vs. American): [10] because it still left the article with some mixed usage, and because it's not clear which one should be used. Their explanation was: With prominant use of British English (expelled, remodelling, centre, theatre), changed other uses, mainly 'center'. However, it's not clear to me that British English is prominent (and "expelled" is also American) as there is a significant mixture. In any case, the choice of which to use is normally not determined by which is the most prominent in the current version, but by which was first established, unless there is consensus otherwise. Since there are no national ties (MOS:TIES), we should follow MOS:RETAIN, which says to "use the variety found in the first post-stub revision that introduced an identifiable variety." The first stub version does use "centre": [11]. But the first major contributor who brought it to a non-stub level seems to have been Rmhermen, in this 2001 edit: [12], who used "center" (though did not remove the existing "centre"). I'm happy to discuss any suggestions as to why another variety should be used (up to and including flipping a coin), but in the absence of consensus for something else, I believe the guidelines indicate that American English should be used. --IamNotU (talk) 02:59, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
i.e. some inaccuracies emerged in both of the additions, even repetitive. The Habsburg Monarchy - which was nto a country - had only a dynastic capital, and as well it is false that the capital of Austria-Hungary would be Vienna, since only the Austrian half it held, etc.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:34, 31 August 2020 (UTC))
Ok, thanks for the explanation. My knowledge of history in that area is not as good as I'd like. It just looked like someone had done a fair amount of good-faith editing, so usually it's nice to have an edit summary to explain why it was undone, in case they want to improve. Hopefully they'll read this... --IamNotU (talk) 16:08, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi there, I was responsible for those edits--they were indeed made in good faith, and I'd like to see some version of them come back, as long as they meet Wikipedia standards, avoid any inaccuracies (apologies for introducing any), and we can arrive on some agreement on what should go in. To briefly respond to the above comments about the reversion, I agree that describing what Vienna was before 1920 is a bit of a complicated affair, as is describing what it was nominally the capital/center/seat of--I had put something like "seat" of the Austrian branch of the Habsburg Monarchy, which ruled over a "vast and diverse realm," in an attempt not to commit to something anachronistic or inaccurate. It's my sense that scholarship varies on this issue, but most scholars simply make a choice and defend that choice (in a recent work Pieter Judson calls the Habsburg "empire" a "state," for example, which I think may be anachronistic; Vienna is often called the "capital" of the Habsburg realms or "empire" across various eras in both literature and scholarship, etc). My attempt at a solution was to be somewhat "inclusive" in wording and to link to other Wikipedia articles taking up these questions, i.e., the Habsburg Monarchy article, so that the lede could stay relatively fast moving and clear. I did not intend to describe the Habsburg monarchy, or the various realms ruled by the eastern branch of the Habsburgs, as a "country"; apologies if I gave that impression. Nonetheless, non-state entities can have "capitals" according to what I see elsewhere in Wikipedia (e.g. the Chinese dynasties, Russian Empire, Ottoman Empire, and even HRE are all given lists of capitals, sometimes with clarifications, as with HRE). Some things can be finessed: being a co-capital of the Austro-Hungarian empire makes Vienna a capital of it, just not "the" capital.
But, my larger attempt was to introduce more of this important history into the second paragraph of the lead--to give readers a a sense of why Vienna is an important European city, historically and at present. The current second paragraph does this by mentioning some factoids--population vis other German speaking cities and the bits about music and psychoanalysis--but avoids coming out and saying Vienna was the centre of the Habsburg monarchy and its successor polities; this transformed it over time from what is was in 1400 or what have you to one of Europe's largest and most important cities, and is principally why Vienna boasts the academic, musical, architectural, and artistic heritages that it does. Currently, the relevant section starts by comparing Vienna to Berlin, which strikes me as relevant information but an odd way to present it (i.e., introducing a city by immediately comparing it to another one). It mentions the Austro-Hungarian breakup, without clarifying Vienna's relationship to KuK or why its breakup would have reduced Vienna's population, and there is no mention of Vienna's role the preceding political assemblages: the Habsburg monarchy, the Austrian Empire, and the Holy Roman Empire. There is no mention of its 19th Century prominence as the host of the Congress of Vienna or role via the Concert system, arguably the peak of its importance as the capital of a European "great power" and the period in which much of the rest that is mentioned (e.g. the musical and architectural legacies) occurred. Further, Vienna's architectural inheritance extends beyond its baroque ensembles and the Historicism of the Ringstrasse--e.g. the Secessionist movement that rebelled against it--which may be worth mentioning, as it produced internationally-known figures like Klimt, Schiele, and Otto Wagner. Likely also the city's innovative and substantial history with social housing could be mentioned in the following paragraph, tying this into the quality of life and urban planning content. The city has statistics on the current social housing populations, which are substantial--but I know this territory less well, so did not make this sort of edit. I am happy to cite where needed (and had planned to with my edits, before the reversion), as long as perhaps we agree on some text so whatever I stick in is not simply reverted--if, of course, there is some agreement that the second paragraph here can be better. In any case, some lines in the extant text are not fluid English ("Vienna is also said to be the "City of Dreams", because of it being home to the world's first psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud.[17]") and there are some grammar issues (the sentence with Mozart and Beethoven), so some cleaning up would be a good idea. The bit about music is repeated, and was in that state before my edits--my edit was an attempt to add information to the repeat, and flesh out the connection between Vienna's musical legacy and political history. So, in sum, I think the second para of the intro can present a more coherent account of Vienna--why it is what it is--connecting especially the various extant historical statements to an overall presentation, so a reader understands the basics better. First on my list would be mentioning what seems to be the most important fact about Vienna, which is that it was the center of a vast, important, and changing political assemblage for several hundred years, and the consequences thereof have in effect formed the city you see today. Perhaps the Rome article can serve as a template: it has a relatively comprehensive second paragraph which connects facts about its history to its various nicknames, etc. --Chris 2A02:8388:6780:6800:39EB:7011:76F0:C218 (talk) 13:06, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
Chris, you may re-add the vast majority of your content, but leave this capital issues, espeically the inaccuracies I drawed the attention. Just because you see on the other article infoboxes with capital parameters, it does not mean they would be accurate. Even non-country or government articles, etc. have a country-type template, because of convenience or lack of other specialized templates and even in some cases such parameters are compulsory to be filled that could be only inaccurate, but e.g. the template would not function properly without filling some of them.(KIENGIR (talk) 09:12, 7 September 2020 (UTC))
Too many citations in lede?
Hello. I edited the article to merge some of the citations into single references as discussed on Help:Citation_merging[14]. Please feel free to revert if this is wrong, but there were lots of distracting numbers in the opening section beforehand. 70.172.194.25 (talk) 18:19, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
Gemeindebau
As a new reader of this article I didn't want to just jump in and rearrange, but the info about Vienna's public housing system seems to be misplaced under the heading of "government" it's noted for its successes and sustainability, especially when compared with the US. Should this perhaps not be with the urban planning info? 2603:8001:2A00:7428:7CDA:E515:D65F:1DEA (talk) 21:57, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
Vienna is 5th-largest city in the European Union by population (according to the referenced Wikipedia site). Someone change that. Tauntaun30 (talk) 12:32, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
Largest on the Danube river?
Opening paragraph says it’s the largest on the danube river - but even the wiki page the hyperlink takes it to lists it as only the second largest? Both in terms of urban area and metropolitan area (even including Bratislava (the capital of Slovakia) as part of Vienna metro area!) Budapest is still larger. Probably should be changed, or at least saying it could be largest or second largest depending on definition (although most would put Budapest as significantly larger) Wikipedianomad (talk) 05:48, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
In the list article, somebody changed the population of Budapest from 1.752 million to 3 million without changing the year the figure is associated with (2017). So the first thing to do is determine whether that's correct. If it is, then the year needs to be updated (unless it is the 2017 figure and the original 1.752 million was wrong) and the ranks of Budapest and Vienna need to be swapped. And then "largest" can be changed to "second-largest" here. Otherwise, the correct figure there needs to be restored, and this article's claim is fine. Largoplazo (talk) 10:38, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
Lueger as a teacher of Hitler. What?
"For Adolf Hitler, who spent some years in Vienna, Lueger was a teacher of how to use antisemitism in politics.
"
According to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
"It was in Vienna that Hitler first became exposed to racist rhetoric.[48] Populists such as mayor Karl Lueger exploited the climate of virulent anti-Semitism and occasionally espoused German nationalist notions for political effect. German nationalism had a particularly widespread following in the Mariahilf district, where Hitler lived.[49] Georg Ritter von Schönerer became a major influence on Hitler.[50] He also developed an admiration for Martin Luther.[51] Hitler read local newspapers such as Deutsches Volksblatt [de] that fanned prejudice and played on Christian fears of being swamped by an influx of Eastern European Jews.[52] He read newspapers and pamphlets that published the thoughts of philosophers and theoreticians such as Houston Stewart Chamberlain, Charles Darwin, Friedrich Nietzsche, Gustave Le Bon and Arthur Schopenhauer.[53]"
The influence of Lueger cannot have been that great to call him a teacher. Lueger died in 1910. Hitler was in Vienna in 1907.
I dont see an old grampy Lueger being such a big influence on a teenager. Eventhough he used anti-semitic rhetorics. But ofcourse how Vienna was shapped back then and the media like "Deutsches Volksblatt" and other mentioned influences were big. And it would be wrong to say the city was not full of antisemitic speech and propaganda. I think either we remove that part with Lueger being "a teacher" or we rewrite it add also other influences on latter dictator Hitler. --84.115.210.198 (talk) 21:42, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
Weatherboxes
@Moxy @PAper GOL
The article has 3 weatherboxes; which I assume Moxy finds excessive. PAper GOL has brought back one of the boxes, but not both of them. I certainly get why 3 boxes seem like too much, however there is a detail that makes Vienna special here; it borders 3 different climate zones. These zone calculations are based on WP:CALC from the weatherboxes themselves and therefore need the weather boxes to be there. This could be circumvented by having a Climate of Vienna page, and changing the climate section here to WP:SUMMARY (essentially the Istanbul/Climate of Istanbul treatment). Another solution is to let the urban station remain, while we change the climate type to simply humid subtropical (or humid temperate climate if the RfC on Talk:Köppen climate classification is successful). Uness232 (talk) 16:33, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
You're right. We can go in details in a separate article and leave this article in a summary, the sources for these tables can provide even more information about the weather(e.g. stormy days, snow cover)
Yes need an article to dump this raw data into. As prose text is preferred overly detailed statistical charts and diagrams such as economic trends, weather boxes, historical population charts, and past elections results, etc, should be reserved for main sub articles on the topic as per WP:DETAIL as outlined at WP:NOTSTATS. Moxy-16:50, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
I see. So we can move on with a chart or two(the older one I added can be removed) in this article and go in full details in its sub-article (As it is the case for Budapest or major spanish cities), or turn the box into plain text, with no need to create any sub-articles.PAper GOL (talk) 17:05, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Yes sub articles is best...that said only country articles do this well because they have well developed sub articles. That said many FA city articles use Template:Climate chart with the mass charts on sub pages. Moxy-17:12, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
I agree with most of the points being made, but I do want to clarify my positions on a few things.
@Moxy I think Template:Climate chart is not all that useful and obscures important detail; I prefer simplified weatherboxes with links to more detail on the subpage (see Istanbul).
As for classification @PAper GOL, it's pretty standard practice to prioritize urban stations, especially when they better represent the city climate. This is not an article on the region of Austria that Vienna is a part of, but Vienna itself. If there needs to be one weatherbox of station data remaining on the main article, that should be the Innere Stadt one, not Hohe Warte. This only affects what we can say about climate classes if we do not create a subpage however, and I assume we are; so disregard what I said about the classification. Uness232 (talk) 18:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Oxford Comma
Some lists on this page use the Oxford comma, some don't. We need to decide on one or the other. I propose getting rid of them, as they're mostly used in lists of people and buildings where they're not necessary. EulersNumberIsGreat (talk) 11:43, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
16:50, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
