Talk:Vedic learning in Mithila

Previous relevant discussions

See Talk:Ancient Mithila University for previous discussions about whether that university actually existed. – wbm1058 (talk) 14:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

University

@Sntshkumar750: can you establish that there was an "university," that is, a peetham or mahavira in Mithila, other than a passing reference to "Mithila university" without any further explanation? This may be usefull, though the term "university" may still need further explanation here. Regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 14:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Ancient Mithila University into Vedic learning in Mithila

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To merge to the broader topic of vedic learning, given that both ancient and university are contested (WP:SYNTH) if we excluded one contested source; merge for short text and context. Klbrain (talk) 14:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

---

None of the references cited at Ancient Mithila University mention a university, although they readily attest that the region was home to scholars in both the ancient and medieval periods. My guess is that the intent here was to describe a specific school of thought associated with Ancient Mithila, and that university is a mistranslation. Even as a descriptive Ancient Mithila school, however, the cited sources do not obviously cohere around a specific subject, nor is it clear how it differs from the broader topic of Vedic learning in Mithila, especially since the current article content at Ancient Mithila University is mostly about the medieval period. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 22:46, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

• Support - "university" is a misnoumer for the ancient tradition of Vedic learning. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:53, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

• Question - Sntshkumar750, you've added more citations, but there's still an overall issue of WP:SYNTH across the sources--only Vidyabhusana directly asserts that a physical university existed, whereas the other sources just describe centers of learning. Meanwhile, there's still the issue of conflation of the medieval and ancient periods. Could you please engage with us here? Discussion is not optional. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 21:29, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

University is an English word derived from Latin word universitas magistrorum et scholarium, which roughly means "community of teachers and scholars". In ancient India, the authorities of the higher educational system was generally denoted by Parishad, Sabha, Vidyapeeth, Peetham and Similarly in Buddhism period Vihar was used in spite of University. For example Nalanda, Taxila or Vikramshilaa. The word University in India started during British period. Ancient Mithila University refers to the tradition of Brahminical study in the Mithila region. The scholars in their books have denoted the tradition by Mithila University, University of Mithila or simply Mithila. In the tradition there was an authority known as Parishad or Shabha ( Council) authorised to award degree, diploma or Upadhis. In the Parishad, debates and later examination were organised at the court of King of Mithila or some ashramas. In the mediaeval period the examination was denoted by Salaka Pariksha. The existence of the tradition is from Vedic, mythological to the Mediaeval period. Ancient Mithila University refers to the encyclopaedia of this tradition. The words used by scholars like Mithila University, University of Mithila and Mithila are denoting the same common traditional or the physical entity of the Ancient Mithila University from the Vedic, mythological to the mediaeval period in the Mithila region. Presently Mithila does not exist in the form of physical state but the word Mithila represents the same geographical area from the ancient to the mediaeval period. From my good faith the word "Ancient Mithila University" is more suitable for the article representing the tradition. If you have any idea please have a better talk or discussion. Sntshkumar750 (talk) 14:06, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Could you explain what you think the distinction is between "Ancient Mithila University" vs" Vedic learning in Mithila"? Based on what you've explained thus far, it still seems like the latter is a more appropriate English title. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 17:01, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Vedic learning in Mithila is also a good option but "University of Mithila" is more suitable as it has been documented and mentioned by the scholars in their books. The references of "University of Mithila" are available in different books for citations. For example, Radhakrishna Chaudhary in his book "A Survey of Maithili Literature" published by Shruti Publications has mentioned the "University of Mithila " in page number 44, where Maithili poet Vidyapati was teacher. Let's talk. Sntshkumar750 (talk) 17:58, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

The second question I would have is concerning the label "Ancient"--to take your example from R. Chaudhury above (I can't track down the book but have no reason to doubt your claim regarding pg. 44), Vidyapati was active in the 14th/15th century CE, which would seemingly make them a medieval scholar, not an ancient one--are there any sources that directly describe an "ancient" university at Mithila? Or is it even appropriate to split up the history of scholarship in Mithila into these periods? _signed, Rosguill ^talk 18:10, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

PRATIYOGITA DARP of Upkar Publication 2010 edition has mentioned the University in Mithila from the Upanishads age in page number 172. Upanishads age belongs to the ancient times.AN Sntshkumar750 (talk) 18:58, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Pratiyogita Darpan, Upkar Prakashan page 172 Sntshkumar750 (talk) 19:03, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Could you provide a more complete citation for that? Pratiyogita Darpan appears to publish multiple issues per year, and I don't see it already cited in the articles we're discussing. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 19:21, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Scharfe notes that there is a thousand-year gap between the narratives about king Janaka in the Upanishad, and any furthef information about Vedic/Brahmanical learning in Mithila. It's fame stems from it's school of logic of the 12th-15th century.

• Most sources contain no more than a repetition of the same, very limited, pieces of info: Janaka, logic in 12th-15th century, salaka pariksha, no written records accepted.
• Pratiyogita Darpan is not WP:RS.

Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 19:37, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 14:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)