Talk:Tyler Bates

The Facts About The 300 Controversy

The act of plagiarism or deliberate copyright infringement is a violation of the contractual agreement between a producer/studio and composer. Committing such an act releases the producer/studio from all liability to fulfill contractual obligations to the composer including payment or protection from legal repercussions. Tyler Bates has never been sued for copyright infringement or plagiarism, therefore he was not named in the Warner Bros “statement” mentioned in this discussion. However, Tyler Bates was asked to participate in the ‘300’ panel discussion at the 2007 Comic Con convention, and has since scored Zack Snyder’s ‘Watchmen,’ ‘Tales of the Black Freighter,’ and ‘Sucker Punch.’ The statement posted to this discussion regarding the music of ‘300,’ issued by Warner Bros pictures May 2007, does not include Tyler Bates because the conflict derived from the “picture edit,” which was formed to the beats and dynamics of a music cue from the movie ‘Titus.’ The cue from ‘Titus’ that was cited as the impetus for the aforementioned conflict, was in the ‘temp track’ of ‘300’ when it was screened by Warner Bros for a public audience in Chatsworth California, August 2006.

In response to this dispute, the 41 seconds of music (out of 83 minutes of score) pertaining to this discussion were analyzed by thirty-year veteran musicologist, Danny Gould, whose official report stated, “The use of foreign-sounding voices in addition to the necessary elements required to make a musical statement of this kind could appear to the layperson to be similar if not the same piece of music, when in fact the intent, orchestration, melodic development and key signature are not the same.”

Temp tracks are industry standard in the film editing process to clearly communicate a director’s intentions to the composer and producer/studio. The music for the scene in question was written based on specific instruction from the director, to the edited picture provided to the composer. If the specific direction from a director or producer specifically references a song or other music cue, the industry protocol is that the producer/studio seek a license to record the song or score cue via contractual agreement with the licensee if the producer/studio deems it necessary. It is customary for a studio musicologist to execute an analysis of each piece of music to determine if a license agreement is necessary, or if a potential copyright infringement exists as a result of this process. The writer or publisher of the “temp track” receives credit only if negotiated in the license agreement between the producer/studio and the licensee. All license agreements and music titles are determined and executed by the studio music and legal departments collectively. In some cases the original recording cue from a movie is licensed for another film, as was the case when a cue from “What’s the worst that could happen?” written by Tyler Bates, was licensed and used in the final production of “Miss Congeniality 2 – Armed and dangerous.” Peanutrose (talk) 17:50, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Plagiarism?

No mention of Bates' admitted plagiarism for the 300 soundtrack? And I refer to the portion of the score that is allegedly a lift of Elliot Goldenthal's work on Titus? It was originally mentioned directly on the main page for the 300 DVD (though it has since been removed as time has passed, seemingly more due to disinterest in maintenance of the page by WB than anything else).71.111.220.191 (talk) 18:57, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

The apology by Warner Brothers is still on the site: official 300 DVD site -- megA (talk) 11:44, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

202.43.226.11 10:26, 6 April 2007 (UTC)Hollywood blockbuster 300, based on Frank Miller's cult graphic novel about Spartan resistance to Persian invasion, includes a copycat of the famous Macedonian folk song "Zajdi, zajdi, jasno Sonce." However, the soundtrack author Tyler Bates failed to provide proper attribution, and now claims the melody as his own copyrighted work.

Macedonian portal On.net revealed that intro to the song "Message For The Queen," number 24 on the 300 Original Motion Picture Soundtrack has the same melody as the famous Macedonian folk song "Zajdi, zajdi jasno Sonce" [Set, set bright Sun].

Internationally renowned for its characteristic melody and melancholic lyrics, this song has been included in numerous anthologies and has been interpreted by a number of Macedonian star singers, including Aleksandar Sarievski, Zafir Hadzimanov, and Toshe Proeski. During the last 60 years, this was one one of the songs that people of former Yugoslavia most often associate with Macedonia, as shown in the 1998 movie Powder Keg by Serbian director Goran Paskaljevic.

On.net also published a response by Tyler Bates, who claims that he "can't say there is a specific source of inspiration for the cue." The portal urges its readers to use Mr. Bates' e-mail to send him original versions of the song, so he can be reminded of where it came from.

Compare and contrast:

"Message for the Queen" (mp3) from the 300 soundtrack

http://www.on.net.mk/WBStorage/Files/300%20Soundtrack%20-%2024%20-%20Message%20for%20the%20Queen.mp3

Sample of "Zajdi, zajdi jasno sonce" (mp3) sung by Aleksandar Sarievski http://www.passiondiscs.com/e_pages/balkan_e/balkan%20samples/cd405945_trk01.mp3

and a copy of the full song http://www.nostalgija.com/muzika/6614.php

and a video clip. Sample of "Zajdi zajdi jasno Sonce" (mp3) sung by Toshe Proeski http://www.cityrecords.co.yu/mp3/526%20-%20tose%20-%2013.mp3

Also available is video clip of Toshe's performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSllN95UKow

Not a folk song

Actually as most publicly available data suggests "Zajdi, zajdi..." is not a folk song, but a copyrighted work of Aleskandar Sarievski who took some lyrics from a folk song but written completely different music/melody. Novica 16:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Zajdi, Zajdi's Origin

Aleksandar Sarievski, the writer and composer of the song was an ethnic Macedonian folk singer who was born in 1922 in modern Macedonia when it was a part of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. At this point Macedonians could not recognize themselves as Bulgarians but rather as Serbs. The song itself was written well after the establishment of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and at this point the modern Macedonian language had been established, respectively. This is why many Serbian pop singers today cover the song, because it was composed in Yugoslavia not because "it's a Balkan song". Note: "Balkans" would include Greece, Turkey and Albania. Frightner 11:37, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Out of respect, I will add the Bulgarian translation but I will disambiguate the page to the region of Macedonia. Frightner 11:58, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

The Biography Reads Like It Was Written for a Press Kit

The biography section of the Tyler Bates article appears to boast about Bates' career, rather than simply describing it in objective terms. It presents a number of subjective valuations of Mr. Bates' work as incontrovertible fact. For example, it describes his "vocal melodies" as "intoxicating" and refers to his "musical innovations" as if the notion that Mr. Bates is an innovator were simply accepted by everyone. It describes his score for 300 thusly: "His recent work on Zack Snyder's battle epic, 300, embodies expansive orchestral and choral themes that express a sweeping range of color and emotion with a heavy rock attitude." This is obviously language meant to cast Mr. Bates' score to 300 in a positive light, and such language should only be used on a Wikipedia page when it is identified as an opinion and is sourced to that opinion's point of origin. There are many other instances of this kind of writing throughout the biography.

Furthermore, the biography provides not a single source for its verification. Batman Jr. (talk) 02:15, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. This article verges on the hagiographic, and needs some serious NPOV refactoring. I will be giving it a little attention as time permits. Sjc (talk) 05:28, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Moreover, the article appears to have largely been derived from [1]. Sjc (talk) 05:36, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

No Mention of Early Life

Personally knowing Tyler, I know his early life had several interesting and key aspects that give way to his success in the music industry. The bands he was part of and people he was around give a nice view at how he did what he did. Without mentioning some of this content, I feel as though his page is lacking any kind of background info that gives credit to his success. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2-Door (talk • contribs) 14:36, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

@2-Door: The problem is availability of reliable sources about his early life. Do you know of any magazine articles or reliable web sites per WP:RS? Unfortunately your personal knowledge of the subject cannot be used as a source. --Laser brain (talk) 12:33, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Addition of "behind the scenes" on his work

This is the first time I am editing/adding to an article (school project), and I plan on trying to add some information on the process that goes on behind the scenes. Taking a bit of details from interviews and discussions to piece together an image of how things might be done behind the scenes. Any feedback on the article would be nice. This is my first go around, so it might sound out of place since I have never written something in this type of context before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2-Door (talk • contribs) 02:23, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Tyler Bates/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

This author is a thief of a Macedonain folklore song, that he just renamed. In the movie 300 there should have been at least a note that the song is not his but of Macedonian origin.

Last edited at 11:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 09:24, 30 April 2016 (UTC)