Talk:St Margaret's Church, Aberlour

St Margaret's Church, Aberlour has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: August 21, 2019. (Reviewed version).

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This article was created or improved during the "The 20,000 Challenge: UK and Ireland", which started on 20 August 2016 and is still open. You can help!

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:07, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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... ~~that the construction of St Margaret's Church, in the small town of Aberlour in Scotland, was paid for with the proceeds of slavery in Jamaica?~~ Source: "Alexander Grant... ...Returned slave-owner and merchant... ...His estates in Jamaica and Scotland were inherited by his niece Margaret Gordon MacPherson Grant (1834-1877) who donated money to pay for St Margaret's Church in Aberlour." (Legacies of British Slave Ownership) See also Margaret McPherson Grant and the legacies of slave-derived wealth for further discussion of the connection between the church and Jamaican slavery.

ALT1: ... that the construction of St Margaret's Church, in the small town of Aberlour in Scotland, was largely paid for with the proceeds of slavery in Jamaica?
Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Cueva de Bolomor

Created by Girth Summit (talk). Self-nominated at 16:17, 18 August 2019 (UTC).[reply]

This well written article is new enough, long enough, and fully referenced. The hook is interesting, and a QPQ is done. A couple of issues: the article says Macpherson Grant died before the completion of the church, and William Grant paid for the rest, and it's also unclear whether the inheritance was the only source of her wealth. As such, we should add "partly" to the hook for accuracy. Also, the sentence "The chancel at the eastern end of building is slightly narrower and shorter than the nave" is very close to source and needs to be rephrased. -Zanhe (talk) 04:50, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Zanhe: Thanks for reviewing. I've rephrased that sentence, thanks for spotting that. I've proposed an ALT1 above, using the word 'largely'. Certainly, Macpherson Grant, as the daughter of a modest country doctor, would have had a little bit of money before inheriting, but I think the sources are pretty clear that inheritance completely changed her life and allowed her to start engaging in philanthropy; I take your point however that someone else had to pay for the completion of the building after she died. I think 'largely' conveys a better sense of the significance of her contribution than 'partly', are you happy with that? GirthSummit _(blether) 07:34, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for addressing the issues. I'm happy with ALT1, good to go. -Zanhe (talk) 07:41, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:St Margaret's Church, Aberlour/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 08:42, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Is it "Episcopal Church of Scotland " or the "Scottish Episcopal Church"? (lead v infobox)

Should be Scottish Episcopal Church, changed.

"1875-1879" en-dash there, not a hyphen.

I think I'll have to resolve to read MOS:DASH and MOS:HYPHEN once a week until this sinks in...

Could expand the lead a little, a rule of thumb for me is to make sure that for every section of the main part of the article, there's something in the lead, maybe small or large depending on how prominent it is. I'm not (for example) seeing anything from the "Description" section in the lead at all...

OK - I've expanded the lead a bit with more description. Do you think I've gone a bit far with the description though - I mean, I'm restraining myself in comparison to how Pevsner writes it up, apparently you have to see the stonework to believe it, but I don't want to come across as promotional.

"cruciform Gothic" is a WP:SEAOFBLUE.

Moved the words around a bit

"five-bay nave[4], oriented east-west" ref after punctuation. And "east–west" (or "east-to-west")...

"south west" these days, I would either hyphenate that or make it one word...

hyphenated

"Second World Wars" put "World Wars" in the pipe.

done

Link reredos .

Done - surprised I missed that, it's definitely not something I'd expect the casual reader to understand. What do you think about altar - should that be linked, or is that going overboard?

"valued at £300,000" could escalate this per inflation, sounds like a lot!

It was indeed an absolute bloody fortune at the time - she went overnight from being generally respectable, the daughter of the local doctor, to being far and away the richest person in the locale, without social equal. I came across her story while researching this, and find it fascinating - the wealth, along with Victorian expectations regarding feminine behaviour and homosexuality, seem to have been the ruin of her, and she slid into alcoholism and mental ill-health and died at 42. I'm working on a draft of a biographical article about her now. Anyway, back to your point - the published sources I've found don't give a figure, but I've done a bit of Googling. The National Archives websites suggests £24 million, the Bank of England suggests £33 million, but this site is a bit more nuanced - it explains that, depending on how you look at it, the value could be seens as being between £28 million and £887 million (!). What's the best thing to do here do you think?

Have a look at {{inflation}}, that's typically used without question over its reliability...! The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 11:23, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, sorry, didn't notice you'd responded to that when I expanded my response. I'll look at {{inflation}} now and go by what that says, thanks. GirthSummit _(blether) 11:43, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OK, think I got my head around that, it's giving a figure of £30 million. I've rounded to the closest whole number of million - I strongly suspect that the value of £300,000 is rounded as well, so it seems pointless to give a more precise figure.

" at 10 am.[13]" 10 a.m.

Thanks - another trick you've taught me.

"Scotland - Aberdeenshire" en dash, not hyphen.

That's it, no major dramas here. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:46, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot The Rambling Man - I think I've addressed all those concerns, and picked up a couple of typos while I was at it - can you check my changes to the lead and check I'm not verging too much on the promotional? Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 11:56, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: Hi - just in case you missed the last ping, I think it's ready for checking over. Apologies if you'd seen it and just been busy. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 09:16, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for the delay, just been busy. More than happy that this exceeds what is needed for Good Article status. Nice work. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 19:21, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks TRM - I should have just been patient, your input on this is most appreciated. By the way - if you're interested in reading where my research on this topic went next, take a look at Margaret Macpherson Grant - she had a truly compelling life story, and I spent the last few days working with SusunW on the article. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 19:47, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. I was lucky enough to watch my lot win last night with almost the last kick of the match, and combined with working up to an imminent holiday, it's been busy. Let me know if you need any eyes on anything else, either now and at any point in the future. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 19:50, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]