Talk:Sour cereal soup

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On 2 April 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from West Slavic fermented cereal soups to Sour cereal soup. The result of the discussion was moved.

Northern Slavic Nations

Well, I lack the linguistic skills on this issue. But what I mean is: Slavic Countries in the north of Europe. By this I mean Poland, Slovakia, Belarus etc. as opposed to southern nations such as those in the Balkans. Perhaps you can device a more apt English term for "innych Słowian północnych."

I renamed the page per West Slavs despite Belarus. Kaihsu (talk) 08:24, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hard boiled eggs

Well, nowadays the soup is eaten with hard boiled eggs not only in Podlasie but rather all around country. It just depends whether you like eggs or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.205.253.136 (talk) 09:17, 2 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this observation: hard-boiled eggs in żur are quite common now across Poland. -Krasnoludek (talk) 21:09, 2 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My beau says his Polish-American family often serves it with halved hard boiled eggs (though they haven't made it recently). But that's not a citation! ErinK (talk) 18:21, 1 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal with Żur śląski

ChildofMidnight has proposed merging Żur śląski with this article.

Agree. Żur śląski is a regional Polish variant of żur, a.k.a. sour rye soup. The variant primarily differs in the method of serving, but does not have significant cultural importance or significance in contrast to regular żur to merit a standalone article. The two articles are also rather short and stand to remain that way. Furthermore, the Polish WP has a redirect from Żur śląski to żur, suggesting that even for the native culture this distinction isn't strong enough to merit separate articles. I would merge the content of Żur śląski into a subsection of the Poland section, as a regional variant. -Krasnoludek (talk) 16:54, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, as per Krasnoludek. Adorno rocks (talk) 17:47, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Żurek vs. Kyselo

After talking with my cooking friends from Poland and Czech Republic I finally decided to remove my informations about kyselo to the separate article. Because kyselo is really different from żurek (using sourdough instead soured rye flour and taste based on mushrooms and caraway not meat). Krakonosovo (talk) 17:08, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So i do not agreee with merging kyselo article back to sour rye soup article. KZselo is close relative to sour rye soups, but it is not made from soured rye flour but from sourdough and it is different. Also the taste. So it could be called rye sourdough soup... There is lot of misunderstanding in the english and polish internet, taht kyselo is same as źurek, but it is not. Krakonosovo (talk) 10:41, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But maybe merging is possible, if this article would be formulated as "northern slavic fermented sour soups" as written up in this discussion. MY reasons to divide kyselo to another article were mostly that this article was in that time only about polish źurek and kyselo was there written as a vraiant of it. In fact źutrek is polish variant of sour wheat fermented soup, kyselo czech etc. But it is not the same. So for example you cannot translate the word "źurek" to czech "kyselo"... Krakonosovo (talk) 10:51, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support merger. I support merging back the articles, but agree that a more general title is needed, something like North Slavic fermented cereal soups, as it includes not only sour rye but also sour wheat based recipes. Note that historically this dish was also related to the ancient East Slavic kissel which was most commonly made from fermented oats and should be mentioned here too. North Slavic is formally correct and we must distinguish these from, say, trahana, which was brought by Turks to the Southern Slavs. However, "North Slavic" is not a very common term (see North Slavic languages), as one usually talks about West and East Slavs. Could someone propose an alternative title? --Off-shell (talk) 04:35, 4 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed and

Done. I've used the suggested new title for the merged article, there being no better suggestions in over a year. Klbrain (talk) 22:30, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why was this article made?

Separate articles for each soup were better. Look at the separate article for "żur" - it's available in 18 languages. Used to be available in English. Then some very bright genius decided to make this article. Why? There are plenty of other examples on wikipedia where similar meals aren't merged but each have their own article LordParsifal (talk) 09:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

SUPPORT Anyway, making a separate article would be a good idea. Please bring "zur" article back, as "Sour cereal soup" is merely a part of Slavic sour sops. Trick is, various Slavs have a bunch of soups known as "borshch" but which are NOT the beet soup known as borscht. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 12:09, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Simple answer: because Slavonic renames are a mess and no one pays a "slavist", an expert in Slavonic languages to sort it out. In some languages, all of these sour soups are classified as borshch (not to be confused with the beet soup known as borscht). 81.89.66.133 (talk) 12:06, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2 April 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 17:00, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

West Slavic fermented cereal soups → Sour cereal soup – Polish "żurek" is translated by most sources as "sour rye soup" and an analogous name is used by Dutch Wikipedia. However, as this article refers to multiple variations of the soup, including ones prepared with other cereals such as oats or wheat, I think the name sour cereal soup should be applied instead. I would not include "Slavic" in the name let alone "West Slavic", as not only is this soup known among non-Western Slavs like Belarusians, but a similar one is prepare in Romania and Moldova where it is known as bors. The plural form of the article name is also confusing, and the article itself has significant issues being composed of multiple older articles fused together. Von Sprat (talk) 15:19, 2 April 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 09:28, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alternatively the article could be instead renamed żur, żurek or zhur based on WP:PRIMARYTOPIC: such a name is used in both Polish and Belarusian of which the dish is a part of both national cuisines, while kyselo, the most detailed of the articles merged into this one, is only a regional dish. As such, either this option or sour cereal soup/sourdough soup would suffice rather than the current name. Von Sprat (talk) 20:30, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm okay with either, 'Sour cereal soup' or some variation of zhur(ek)—blindlynx 15:44, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 12:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.