Talk:Sirinićka župa

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 15:26, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sirinić → Sirinićka župa – This article is about medieval župa, named Sirinićka župa. And as we already have Sredačka Župa, we should name all of those medieval Župas by their original name. --WhiteWriter^speaks 10:16, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support, but in Serbian sources it is Sirinićka župa (Сиринићка жупа) without capitalization, and its name means "župa of Sirinić"/"Sirinić district/county" - which can be added to a Name-section.--Zoupan 19:55, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, sure, my mistake, fixed request. --WhiteWriter^speaks 20:57, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Location

The place is located in what was Ottoman Kosovo thus use of "Ottoman Serbia" is not suitable. Its location in Kosovo makes Sirinićka župa part of geography and history of Kosovo. Btw why did admin delete pic? Ktrimi991 (talk) 16:02, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ktrimi991: The Ottoman Kosovo article says that Kosovo was part of the Ottoman Empire from 1455 to 1912, while this article clearly says that Sirinić was first mentioned in a charter of the 13th century, the second time in 1331. That means that it existed as a župa more than a century before Ottomans conquered it. Thus, saying that it is located in what was Ottoman Kosovo is misleading. Vanjagenije (talk) 16:07, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanjagenije: The article said "was a župa (community of villages, a county) of Medieval Serbia and Ottoman Serbia". The place is in Kosovo and we have the Ottoman Kosovo article (the article refers to Kosovo after Ottoman conquest in the Late Middle Age/Medieval Period) thus "Ottoman Serbia" is not suitable. Hence I changed the first sentence to the current version "was a župa (community of villages, a county) in Kosovo in the Middle Ages period". Both Medieval Serbia and Ottoman Kosovo included the territory of what is now Kosovo. Another possible version, "was a župa (community of villages, a county) of Medieval Serbia and Ottoman Kosovo" would be misleading and would not help the article to be attractive for the reader. Btw, why did you remove pic? Ktrimi991 (talk) 16:15, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If župa is today in disputed region of Kosovo, in medieval time it was in Serbia. Only in Serbia, as Kosovo didnt existed back then as separate entity. It would be the same to say that Ulpiana was in Kosovo. No. Ulpiana was in Roman province of Dardania. Today that may be something else, but then it was obvious what it was. --Ąnαșταη (ταlκ) 21:22, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Flipping on its head your comment would also be to say that it would also be misleading to say that Serbia existed as a unit or region under the Ottomans who did not acknowledge such a entity under their jurisdiction. If anything Ottoman records refer to the region and wider area as Arnavutluk or Albania [1], [2]. Ktrimi does have a point about the reinsertion of Ottoman Kosovo back into the article. If we are going to go into specifics, his ethnographic geographic region under the Ottomans was part of Kosovo vilayet at the end of Ottoman rule and prior to that part of other administrative units that never bore the name Serbia for at least half a millennia.Resnjari (talk) 19:15, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Current disputed state of Kosovo is politically and historically unrelated with Kosovo vilayet. Its only connection was historical connection with Serbia. Therefor, if name Serbia was not politically stable per Ottoman occupation, name Kosovo was NEVER user up to the 20th century as independent political entity. --Ąnαșταη (ταlκ) 19:49, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ottoman occupation ? Ottoman sovereignty was recognised for over half a millennia, otherwise why would foreign states sign treaties with it after many wars to recognise the new status quo and cessation of land if it was a "occupation"? "Current disputed state of Kosovo is politically and historically unrelated with Kosovo vilayet". Seriously, man oh man.lolResnjari (talk) 20:17, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Resnjari: What are you talking about? This župa was part of the Serbian Kingdom and Serbian Empire long before Ottoman conquest. That is what the article itself says. There were no župas as administrative units in Ottoman Empire. Vanjagenije (talk) 20:04, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You misunderstood. Yes it existed as a geographical locality in the pre ottoman era, but medaevil Serbia or the Serbian statelets that followed Dushan's empire did not exist during the Ottoman era, yet we have Ottoman Serbia there. The area became part of many other administrative units. If your going to have Ottoman Serbia, Ottoman Kosovo ought to be inserted for balance or remove Ottoman Serbia.Resnjari (talk) 20:17, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Resnjari: So, you agree that the article should only mention Medieval Serbia and not Ottoman Empire. Vanjagenije (talk) 20:33, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If the article is referring to a historical administrative unit of medieval Serbia as most of it is then yes. I don't see why anything Ottoman should be mentioned, as it was not a administrative unit in that state. I am aware that locally today it is a ethnographic/geographic region and both Serbs and Albanians use Sirinićka župa and Siriniq respectively as names for the area and that part is noted in the article. Ottoman Serbia should be removed from lede.Resnjari (talk) 20:39, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Vanjagenije (talk) 20:48, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Changed it up

Although Zupan moved this page, i still think it should refer to the region as well, plus an albanian name, it still mentions the medieval zupa in the lead. Also i cant find whitewriter, so idk who authorised this.Alltan (talk) 15:08, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Alltan: I agree with a move, but start a move discussion (see WP:MOVE)--Maleschreiber (talk) 15:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]