Talk:Seleucid-Maurya treaty

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The title does not have due weight in the literature.

This seems to be a new page.

I am sorry, but I have never heard the term "Treaty of Indus 303 BCE" for the supposed agreement by which the Chandragupta Maurya acquired from Seleucus I Nicator the vast regions of Balochistan, Sind, Herat, not to mention a Greek bride, in exchange for 500 war elephants. How did 500 war elephants find enough grass to eat on the arid plateaus that lie between India and Hellenistic regions of West Asia? Did they have 500 Indian mahouts with them?

There is one source for this, that seems recent. The other source is a facsimile reprint by a back-alley publisher in Delhi; i.e. it carries a 1994 stamp on a 1920 edition of the late Vincent Smith's Oxford History of India (volume I, Ancient India). Smith died in 1920, and on account of this misfortune the book makes no mention of the Indus Valley Civilisation, for John Marshall made his announcement of IVC's discovery in the Illustrated London News only on 24 September 1924. See (Indus_Valley_Civilisation#Discovery_and_history_of_excavation

I don't know WP's rules too well, but perhaps others might be able to suggest something: @TrangaBellam, Joshua Jonathan, Vanamonde93, RegentsPark, Abecedare, Kautilya3, Johnuniq, and Johnbod: Fowler&fowler «Talk» 22:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The important question is whether the content of this article is viable under a different title. If the treaty has substantive coverage that would be too much to cover at the article about the war, then moving this to a purely descriptive title would be appropriate: perhaps "Mauryan-Seleucid treaty (303 BC)"? If the content isn't viable, then this should probably be PRODed, or perhaps merged. I lack the time to evaluate the sources at the moment, and so I cannot say which option is appropriate. Vanamonde93 (talk) 00:13, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanamonde93 Yes its viable its about treaty that ended Seleucid Maurya war and it has quit good content it will be too much for a aftermath section.Article helps reader a much in knowing about aftermath as well as treaty.I am moving it. Edasf (talk) 04:10, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On the face of it, it looks like this should be in an aftermath section of the Seleucid Mauryan war article. Much of the article contains fillers - the quotes from Strabo and Pliny for example are bordering on WP:OR. The entire article can be reduced to a one paragraph "aftermath" in the war article. RegentsPark (comment) 02:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Seleucid–Mauryan War; ample room to include it there. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 04:39, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is quit large for a section and separate page is quit good. Edasf (talk) 05:00, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Changing the title doesn't cut it when two editors have suggested this page be merged with another. As far as I am concerned it is mostly fluff interspersed with blatant OR. You haven't answered my question: how did 500 war elephants which are bigger than ordinary elephants, and therefore need more nutrition, find enough grass and grasslands to survive in the arid plateaus of Balochistan, Iran, and West Asia? I have flown over them. There is no grass in sight, let alone grasslands. There is a reason the Indian elephant's habitat barely extends to Pakistan.

Indian elephants are herbivores and spend up to 19 hours a day eating as much as 136 kilograms (300 pounds) of fruit, grasses, roots, and bark. They are migratory animals with large home ranges, meaning they wander across their forest habitat searching for food, water, and mates. (See here)

There is the basic question of plausibility. 500x300 = 150,000 pounds. Just because some Greek historians, given to exaggeration, make an isolated mention of a treaty, doesn't make it reality in India's ahistorical culture. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 13:29, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Fowler&fowler Well how do you know they were Indian elephants if yes then I will add it as a note but how can source be OR? Edasf (talk) 14:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indian elephants are the only subspecies of elephants found in mainland South Asia Fowler&fowler «Talk» 14:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Greek historians writing in 300 BCE are not even remotely WP:RS. We can't use them. Period. You are welcome to post on WP:RS/N Ensure your question is neutral. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 14:24, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Fowler&fowler OK then maybe adding a explanatory note? Edasf (talk) 14:29, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite. I recommend that you merge this into the War page as suggested by RegentsPark and Joshua Jonathan, and then I'll find a modern source that casts doubt on the terms of this treaty. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 14:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Fowler&fowler Perhaps then maybe aatleast a Redirect? Edasf (talk) 14:51, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just did a search. Quite a few academic sources do mention the 500 war elephants. So, please use a few of them and expand this page a little more

Apologies. I should have checked for the sources first. You may be able to keep this page. Best regards, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 15:01, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have to run now and won't be available for the rest of the day. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 15:04, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks I will work on this page then Edasf (talk) 15:06, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Edasf The Greek historian mentions the treaty only twice, without providing any extensive details or in-depth discussion, such as:

He (Seleucus) crossed the Indus and waged war with Sandrocottus [Maurya], king of the Indians, who dwelt on the banks of that stream, until they came to an understanding with each other and contracted a marriage relationship.
— Appian, History of Rome, The Syrian Wars 55

After having made a treaty with him (Sandrakotos) and put in order the Orient situation, Seleucos went to war against Antigonus.
— Junianus Justinus, Historiarum Philippicarum, libri XLIV, XV.4.15

I would prefer that you do not create a separate article, but instead merge the content into the main article (Seleucid-Mauryan War). Nxcrypto Message 07:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You read Fowlers comment above Edasf «Talk» 07:12, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]