Talk:Raji: An Ancient Epic

Reception - Removed statement on popularity on Youtube

Removed following content as it appeared to be too marginal and I could not find any sources at all (let alone reputable secondary ones) to improve it. Compare it with the statement on widespread popularity in the lead on this page - Phasmophobia (video game)

Soon after the release of the game on Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One on October 15, it gained widespread popularity as many Indian YouTubers like RawKnee, MortaL, S8ul content creators, ShreeMan Legend, etc. and some YouTubers from the west, started streaming the game during the days which coincided with the festival of Navratri, which is a festival of the Indian goddess Durga, who gave Raji the power and the responsibility of saving her brother Golu and other kids from Mahabalasura, the demon. 

Ujwal.Xankill3r (talk) 06:45, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Waypoint source

I've removed the Waypoint/Vice Media source from the article. Waypoint/Vice Media is not a reliable source to be discussing a subject like this. Who is Adesh Thapliyal and what are his credentials on the origins of Hinduism? Among many other claims, in the article he writes, "Hinduism as we know it was fundamentally a creation of successive waves of conquest and immigration." That is a significant claim to make for someone with no background on the subject. The article is essentially some person's claim that a video game is part of a Hindu nationalist conspiracy. It would be one thing if it was written by a subject matter expert, but I don't see any evidence that Thapliyal is that. There are plenty of video game publications discussing the actual game that can be included to provide a review/reception of the game. StatGuru (talk) 21:14, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

The author's familiarity with the origins of Hinduism are not relevant to the prose that appears in the Reception section. The sentence you quoted above may or may not be true but that has no bearing because the Reception section is about the author's personal opinions and critique of the game itself. Vice Waypoint is a reliable source for criticism about video games. I'm not interested in getting into a debate about history here because it's not the focus of what appears in the article. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:10, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Who exactly is this author? Apparently he can summarize a a 5000 year old religion into one sentence but his career remains a mystery. What type of reliable source doesn't inform readers about who the author is? If this person's claim is so reliable why has no other source stated anything of the sort. StatGuru (talk) 01:46, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Also, if you're not interested in claims in your source then don't use a source that discusses history. How strange to claim that most of the article may or may not be true but apparently it doesnt matter. We should just assume the part you selected is true.

As for the statement I quoted, its definitely not true. In fact, I'm confident Mr. Thapliyal himself would call it a bigoted statement if we swapped out Hinduism for a different religion. StatGuru (talk) 01:56, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Removing Waypoint/Vice Media Source

I removed that particular source because there are a lot of inaccuracies in that particular source. This game is based on popular Bengali folklore and the author of the article is not aware of that lore.

Inaccuracies in the article

Claim - The Game is Islamophobic because it excludes Mughal architecture.

Reality - The game is based on Ancient India, before the inception of Islam.

Claim - The Game tries to slut shame because one of the villains is a witch with exposed breasts.

Reality - There is no female monster in this game. All the villains are either creatures or male monsters.

Claim - The game is offensive because it shows Mahishasura as a Demon.

Reality - As mentioned before the game is based on popular Bengali folklore and mahishasura is considered a demon in this folklore. It's like saying the biblical games and movies are offensive because Satan worshipers exist. Iamdannyk (talk) 04:37, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't see how any of these alleged inaccuracies are reflected in the summary that's actually included in the wikipedia article. The author of the Waypoint article is a game critic, not a trained historian. He is reliable for his opinions and critiques of the game and its themes. Axem Titanium (talk) 23:14, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

What proof do you have the author is a game critic? This seems to the only article they have ever written for any publication. At no point does he discuss the actual game itself. So being a historian is absolutely required if you want to speak of the origins of a religion. Otherwise stick to talking about the game. This person does not seem to even have the qualifications to review a game let alone discuss religion, politics or place the game in any type of context. StatGuru (talk) 01:50, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Mr. Thapliyal is a cultural critic who has over 40 publications. It's clear that you disagree with his interpretation of history, which is your right. Wikipedia does not factcheck sources; it merely reports on what sources say. If you think Mr. Thapliyal has made a mistake, find a source that says "Mr. Thapliyal got this wrong". Otherwise, you're doing original research or original synthesis. Axem Titanium (talk) 06:54, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Sure. Here's just one of them. The game devs stating how the current government which Thapliyal is obsessed with has done nothing to support them or the development of this game. https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/news-it-s-love-letter-fans-avichal-singh-ian-maude-co-founders-nodding-heads-games-share-thoughts-raji-s-enhanced-edition

None of these publications have anything to do with the topic at hand. He may well be an expert on "Vietnamese Diasporic Cooking" though. Also, its not just me. Multiple editors have challenged this as you can see above. Surely, there must be at least another source that sees this far right conspiracy. Otherwise its just one man's conspiracy.

There's no interpretation to disagree with. This is a fact. No one can immigrate to their place of origin. Where exactly does Mr Thapliyal claim Hindus immigrated to India from? Why do you think Wikipedia has this article? Maybe Thapliyal is mixing up his conquests. StatGuru (talk) 08:46, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

I read through that article, which is a WP:PRIMARY source interview with the devs, and I couldn't find any mention of Mr. Thapliyal or his article. Please stay on topic. The sentence in question says "Adesh Thapliyal, writing for Waypoint, commended the game's "feminist" recasting of Hindu myths but criticized the implicit erasure of Muslim influence on the Indian culture represented in the game. Thapliyal placed the game's cultural depictions within the context of Hindutva—Hindu nationalism." It makes no mention of conspiracies, immigration, conquests, or Vietnamese cooking. Mr. Thapliyal is a video game reviewer giving his opinion about a video game. Waypoint is a reliable source. On this basis, I support keeping the source in the article. Axem Titanium (talk) 05:25, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Of course they dont make reference to Thapliyal. He's simply not relevant or notable for anyone to care about. The closest you will get to a direct rebuttal of his conclusion hypothesis is that. The point that multiple editors have made is that everything leading up to the conclusion is wrong because he isnt a historian or scholar and knows nothing about ancient India, the period where the game is set, and is contradicted by actual experts on the subject. I have provided you 2 articles filled with sources refuting the claims on his version of history in his article. Please read through them as well. I can pull a few up if you'd like. If you're expecting a 5 minute summary of the history of India and its religions, it doesn't exist. StatGuru (talk) 07:13, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

I also support keeping the source, per WP:RSEDITORIAL, opinion pieces don't necessarily have to be used as statements of fact. It can simply be added as a critic's opinion while using language like "this person claimed" to distance it from what may or may not be true. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:29, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

The whole "Reception" section could do with a rewrite, in my opinion. More than 30 critic reviews across all platforms and none of them are being used except the one that's controversial. All other statements are vague and unsourced. ReneeWrites (talk) 13:10, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, more sources need integrated. That changes nothing about Vice though, an established reliable source, which should remain in the article. -- ferret (talk) 17:53, 25 December 2022 (UTC)