Talk:Pokémon: Black & White: Adventures in Unova and Beyond

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Adventure in Unova and beyond is Season 16 NOT 17, CN says in the promo new episodes not new season186.7.22.107 (talk) 01:28, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Slightly different title. Matches up with Japanese season. Doesn't matter really.—Ryulong (琉竜) 01:37, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

I agree with this statement. We shouldn't make a new article for this. It's the same season. Japan's seasons don't always match up, this wouldn't be the first case. The information here should be moved back to the other article, and this page should be deleted.Ctesjbuvf (talk) 18:43, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

There's just a slight problem with your argument. The information on this page has always been on this page. It was never on any other page. And because the "...and Beyond" division matches so cleanly with the "Decolora Adventure" division there's no need to merge or delete or do anything.—Ryulong (琉竜) 19:49, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

In that case, it's the new page that should be deleted in this one. It matches yes, but we have never matched with the Japanese seasons before, and this is officially not a new season outside of Japan. Ctesjbuvf (talk) 14:30, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

It's got a slightly new name internationally and that just happens to match up with the division in Japan. It's good enough for Wikipedia.—Ryulong (琉竜) 15:03, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

if the order of japan would have to remove the items from previous seasons because Japan did not exist seasons before BW2 seasons, Then the XY Saga is Season 18??179.52.67.234 (talk) 03:33, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Whatever the first part of the XY saga is called in the US will be season 18 unless the title of the current US airing changes again.—Ryulong (琉竜) 05:25, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Mewtwo Prologue and Cilan episode

Can we stop removing these? Arguably, the Mewtwo thing could go somewhere else but the Cilan episode should stay and count as part of the season just like we count the Brock and Dawn focus episodes as part of the Sinnoh League Victors season. This season will not be officially over until October 17, 2013, when XY begins its broadcast in Japan, which means there are at least 2 more episodes left that will be called "Decolora Adventure" in Japan, one of which is the Cilan focus.—Ryulong (琉竜) 20:23, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh wait we're talking about the episodes that were broadcast right in the beginning of Black and White weren't we? The only reason they are not listed is because this IP editor came by and just deleted them without discussion.—Ryulong (琉竜) 20:27, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Well those episodes can be listed, but they can't count as a regular episode because they are'nt. They belong to the Best Wishes series, because obviously it is about characters of the Best Wishes series, but there is no contentual connection to the following episode. The first episode of the XY series directly links to the last episode of Best Wishes which ist episode 802. So of course you could list those two special episodes but out of the numbering. Do you understand what I mean? (I'm sorry for my English!) --Jany90 (talk) 20:59, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

The Mewtwo episode is not included in the episode count, but I don't see why Cilan's should not be included in the numbering.—Ryulong (琉竜) 01:53, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Because it's a special episode (from Best Wishes! Season 2 Da), it's an episode like the ones with Dawn and Brock. The only difference of these episodes is, that the two episodes with Dawn and Brock were broadcasted while the BW series already started and was in the running (that's why no one argues whether they should be counted) and the Cilan/Brock episode comes directly after the final BW episode. --Jany90 (talk) 14:14, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

If it's included under the season's title I don't see any reason not to include it.—Ryulong (琉竜) 18:03, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

The specials of Diamond & Pearl had also the title of the DP series, but they're not count as regular episodes. Because they are more like spin offs... --Jany90 (talk) 19:02, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, they were broadcast in the middle of Black & White and were only not on the article because some random IP came along and deleted them without discussion. In this case, the episodes are under the "Decolora Adventure" title and should be included in the count of "Decolora Adventure"/"Adventures in Unova and Beyond".—Ryulong (琉竜) 19:34, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Well that's another point. You can't be sure if it's counting to "Adventures in Unova and Beyond"! Because it is only a special, it might be the same with the DP specials, so that this episode won't be broadcasted in the US (anyway) and in that case couldn't really count as an episode of the 16th season... --Jany90 (talk) 18:08, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

You cannot decide what is and is not considered a part of the American broadcast until it actually happens. Saying it should be excluded for whatever tenuous reasons you may be thinking of is a violation of WP:CRYSTAL when it is clearly shown as part of the once airing season in Japan.—Ryulong (琉竜) 18:44, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

That's not my point. I just wanted to support my argumentation. And by the way this is the English wiki and not the Japanese one so it should be considered if this episode is held as an regular episode or a special episode in the American broadcast. And if you search on other websites you will see that this episode is a special. So the real discussion should be whether special episodes should get a regular numbering or not. Of course this episode has the title of BW2 Da! because it belongs to the Best Wishes series but it is a special episode of this series! So if it is listed here then it should be marked as a special episode. --Jany90 (talk) 20:49, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

If you want to use the "English/Japanese Wikipedia" standpoint then I guess we should just delete every single episode from the page that has not yet aired in the United States, United Kingdom, or Canada. It's the 21st Season 2 Da! episode and it will be counted as such. I see no reason it should not be.—Ryulong (琉竜) 20:57, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, you obviously don't. You don't accept for inexplicable reasons that this is a special episode of the anime (thus it can't count as a regular episode). It is really the same with the DP spin-offs, which are (correctly) out of the counting here. And either you don't want to understand that or you really just don't, and I don't know how to explain that to you otherwise. I feel like we talk past each other. --Jany90 (talk) 22:44, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Seriously? You just ignore that those episodes are specials? They are officially confirmed (from the japanese website) as special episodes for this series. But even this note at the actual final episode (which I would understand as a compromise) that CaellachTigerEye made is just an obsession to you and reason enough to be reverted by you? Even if those episodes have the logo of BW2 Da! it still can be special episodes, or what is your actual problem? (and yes I'm talking about the Iris-centered episode, too) --Jany90 (talk) 01:06, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

They Cilan and Iris episodes are included in the greater count of episodes according to Japan. There is no reason we should not count them simply because they are labeled "Extra story" (they do not number the episodes in Japan anyway).—Ryulong (琉竜) 02:16, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes, those are "Extra stories", so why not mark them as such? I mean I don't say those episodes shouldn't be in the list, but they should either be labeled as special episode or the final episode of the main story should be defined --Jany90 (talk) 20:55, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough. I just think they should retain their numbering in either way this is formatted.—Ryulong (琉竜) 03:45, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Well this is seriously late to the party, but I didn't even realize this conversation took place. As agreed upon, the two episodes in question are indeed special episodes, but they should not be listed under the normal episode count. The main story follows Ash, and the main episodes go straight to Kalos after the "My Dream, Pokémon Master" episode. The Cilan and Iris episodes take place later, with the Iris episode set to air while the main story is in Kalos. They are side stories to show what other characters are doing. --Shadow (talk) 07:07, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

I really don't see what the big deal is. They're part of the series in Japan. They should be included as episodes.—Ryulong (琉竜) 07:18, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

They are episodes...side story episodes, not main episodes. That's the issue present. The main episodes feature Ash and follow his journey. These do not. --Shadow (talk) 18:10, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

If they are included in the season in Japan (which they are) then they should be included within the episode count on the English Wikipedia.—Ryulong (琉竜) 01:27, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Again though, they are still labeled as "extra episodes" aka, side stories. The same treatment was given to the two DP specials, and they obviously aired months after DP ended. As I've said, the main episodes follow Ash, these episode don't. They are in the same vein as all the post-Johto special episodes. --Shadow (talk) 00:10, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Geez it doesn't matter. It's better to list them here because the list of specials is crap and they were considered a part of this season in Japan, even if they were labeled "extra". The Cilan episode aired a week after the finale so its nothing like the other episodes that were only deleted from the other page because an IP did it without discussion.—Ryulong (琉竜) 09:20, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Except it does matter. Just because you don't care about it doesn't mean it is trivial. They are not regular episodes, simple as that. --Shadow (talk) 08:02, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

If they are counted as episodes within the series by the Japanese production company, simply because they are called "special episodes" does not mean they should not be listed here or within the full episode count.—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:40, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Break

I didnt want to jump in here but this is also affecting the XY page and an IP is trying to push an opinion based on the supposed "consensus" here when clearly none has been reached. I guess I'll have to be the rationale one here. If the production company has the episodes listed with an assigned numbering then why are you all still debating here? Yes they are extra but if they have an official numbering then that should be used with a note also labeling them as extra—simple as that. If not then label them extra and continue the official numbering from the following episodes. Why are you all letting personal opinions prolong this simple matter? I havent done any research but if an official numbering was assigned for both episodes then I support that. If not then obviously I support the latter. —KirtZ^Message 01:29, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

While the IP editor is definitely going about this in a less than nice way, I have to agree with the numbering. The problem here (I wish I could have remembered this earlier), is that the Japanese numbering doesn't really follow standard conventions with overall numbers. They air Pokémon by series and each series is numbered separately from the other series. For instance, they don't label it as Episode 802, they label it as Best Wishes episode 142. What further complicates that is that they sometimes count two part episodes as one episode. While this didn't happen with the Best Wishes series, it happened with the previous two series. The site clearly labels these as "extra edition" "extra" "side" depending on how it is translated properly, and that's exactly what they are, side stories showing what happens to Ash's various friends without him around. The main anime episodes follow Ash which is why it goes right from the final Best Wishes episode to the first XY episode because that is Ash's story. If you look here (this is being used as an example, not source), you can see that there are over a dozen of these side story episodes and they have been airing for over a decade and some have also aired in the anime's normal timeslot, but they still aren't part of the main episode storyline (since it wouldn't even make sense for the ones that aired "out of place"). That is why some of us users disagree with the current numbering. --Shadow (talk) 09:24, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

There is no assigned numbering for any of the episodes in Japan as far as I can tell. And even then, they consider XY separate from Best Wishes and the others. And I can't understand why we're not counting any of these episodes. Previously they were under the "Pokémon Chronicles" header but it doesn't seem anyone's using that anymore.—Ryulong (琉竜) 10:15, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Comment I'll try my best to be neutral here. I only have time to verify one of those episodes right now ShadowRanger but the "Hikari – A New Journey!/Nibi Gym – The Greatest Danger!" episode over at List of Pokémon: Black & White episodes was also not given a number. If this trend follows further back then perhaps it'll be weird if the last two Adventures in Unova episodes are numbered while the previous series' (extra) ones are not. If there is no officially assigned Japanese numbering for those past episodes then someone needs to go back and check all these articles and make the necessary changes to-every-episode ——but only if the Adventures in Unova ones are given numbers. If not then I guess we're all good. I have another suggestion but I'll wait as the discussion progresses. —KirtZ^Message 16:34, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

That hour long thing, if I recall, was broadcast during the subsequent season's broadcast but they were counted within the previous season's episodes so it would be a pain in the ass to include them again (also they have never been broadcast out of Japan). For the episodes in this season, one aired directly after the previous one, and the second one, which hasn't aired yet, is included after that one in the episode lists in Japan. And I believe you are mistaken in what I said. In Japan, there is no numbering system whatsoever for any episodes of Pokémon. There is no episode known as #1 nor is there any episode known as #302. They do not bother with it and there are no production codes ever made known to provide a sourced numbering system.—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:29, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

They were advertised as Diamond and Pearl specials because that's where they took place, and there is a numbering system used by the producers who number episodes by series. --Shadow (talk) 06:58, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Well the broadcasters certainly don't give the episodes any numbers. And that's all we have to go on here concerning reliable sources.—Ryulong (琉竜) 07:48, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

True, however, they do very clearly refer to these episodes as extra episodes, which is exactly the point. They don't consider them main episodes. --Shadow (talk) 07:08, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, can you provide a RS that shows they refer to them as Extra? —KirtZ^Message 11:42, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Official Japanese website. If you translate the page, all the episodes will display the title at the top of their box. The episode in question lists the title and then has "Extra Edition" afterwords. --Shadow (talk) 07:15, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

"Iris vs. Ibuki! The Road to Being a Dragon Master!!"

One of the previous episodes uses the same Japanese characters in half of the title. Which translated title should be used for both of them? At the moment they say two different titles. (ドラゴンマスターへの道！キバゴＶＳクリムガン!!) is the other episode listed here. Gaylen50 (talk) 04:22, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

The other one should be "Being" as well.—Ryulong (琉竜) 04:29, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Season 16 (part 2)

My next problem :-P Why did you change that? And made the formatting of the main article so "weird"? :-/ What was wrong with the last format? --Jany90 (talk) 23:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

People keep changing the List of Pokémon episodes to have this as #17 and XY as #18.—Ryulong (琉竜) 03:00, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Where do they keep changing it? But why not change the first part (Adventures in Unova) also in Season 16 (part 1) instead of only having the second part marked as such? Or restore the titles like they were before (both Season 16 only) and maybe lock the page...? --Jany90 (talk) 14:09, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

We don't really need to say the other one is part 1.—Ryulong (琉竜) 14:12, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Well why not? You do that with two-parters as well and it would look much better as it does now (I'm actually referring more to the big article with all the episode lists as you may noticed ^^) But why make the second part, a subsection to the first. That looks really "unpleasant". And you didn't really give a reason why you added "part 2" anyway. Just that there are people who change it, but that's not really a reason... --Jany90 (talk) 21:35, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Do not remove "part 2" again. It's needed to show that it's a continuation. What is not necessary is labeling one of them part 1. You did not have consensus for your change and you went ahead with it anyway. Do not revert.—Ryulong (琉竜) 19:35, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Well you make "consensus" yourself. You just say it's this and that and that results in your own "consensus". You don't need the "part 2" to see that it is a continuation (if you are fairly intelligent). But you just want to have everything the way YOU think it is correct. --Jany90 (talk) 19:40, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

It is needed so people do not change this to be season 17 and XY to be season 18, when the broadcasters have decided this is part of season 16, but we have it separate on Wikipedia due to different titles in both Japan and international broadcasts. It does not make sense to have both sections say "Season 16".—Ryulong (琉竜) 19:54, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

When did they do that? They maybe changed that before it was officially confirmed that XY will be Season 17. But now that the first two episodes aired as the 17th season it should be clear that Adventures in Unova and Beyond is also part of the 16th season. But it seems you just don't like that there are to articles which title Season 16 only... Or can you prove that after that confirmation "people" kept changing it?! --Jany90 (talk) 20:00, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Here you go.—Ryulong (琉竜) 20:24, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Alright but why shouldn't be the first part also titled as such? Where there's a first part there's second as well. So if we really need this addition than we should give it both parts. --Jany90 (talk) 11:44, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

It's implied.—Ryulong (琉竜) 12:42, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

It is the same with two-parters it is clear that the first episode is the first one and the second is the second but still those are titled with part 1 and part 2. --Jany90 (talk) 20:42, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Iris's Special

[1] This has something else airing Oct. 10, no more adding the false date. Gaylen50 (talk) 08:29, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Random ass IPs aren't going to read this but yeah we know.—Ryulong (琉竜) 09:27, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Upcoming New Dubbed episodes of BW Adventures in Unova and Beyond

Upcoming new dubbed episodes on Cartoon Network in USA: Team Rocket's Shocking Recruit! (November 16, 2013), Survival of the Striaton Gym! (November 23, 2013), Best Wishes Until We Meet Again! (November 30, 2013) and Dreams Continues! (December 7, 2013).— Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.65.188.199 (talk) 15:12, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of Pokémon: Indigo League episodes which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:32, 20 November 2020 (UTC)