Talk:Penny/Archive 1

Archive 1

Origin of Phrase

Anyone know the origin of the phrase "a penny for your thoughts"? Is this an American phrase, or did it originate outside the U.S.? Is this phrase used outside the U.S.? Thanks in advance, although I'd be surprised if anyone even sees the Penny talk page. --Lord Voldemort ^{(Dark Mark)} 16:16, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

"A penny for your thoughts" was first published in A dialogue conteinying the nomber in effect of all the proverbes in the Englishe tongue by John Heywood in 1546. Later reprints called it The Proverbs of John Heywood. Heywood was English and therefore I would believe the phrase would be used outside of the U.S. --J. Vincent

Source: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpennythoughts.html

rewrite

In Canada, penny originally referred to pence coinage that they used until 1859 since there was a coin with the word "penny" on it (for pence).

I would rewrite this sentence for clarity, but I find I don't actually understand it. What is "pence coinage"? Why is "penny" "for pence"? Does it mean "Canada uses the name 'penny' for the cent coin because until 1859 the cent coin was marked 'penny'?" 207.245.124.66 16:38, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Criticism

I don't think this section belongs here, as it relates specifically to the US and Canadian coins colloquially called a penny, and not to other pennies such as the British coin Nik42 22:06, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

In the U.S it costs about 1.4 cents this year to make a penny but in usa it costs less than a cent. Kyro123456789

Agreed — This could be moved to Cent (currency) — Eyamseryath 16:32, 7 May 2001 (USC)

NO MORE PENNIES!

I heard on the news they are still deciding wheather to stop making pennies because of the cost.--Cute 1 4 u 03:28, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Praise the LORD! Smith Jones 22:54, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Not entirely true... pennies cost less to make in Canada than their American counterparts. The coins are still in high demand from Canadians...if it does happen it wont be for years to come. -Coinboy

Canadian cents are still solid copper (and weigh more than US cents). US cents are made of copper-plated zinc. Current London spot prices for copper are about double that of zinc [1]. Even factoring in the additional cost of copper-plating the planchets, and marginally higher labour costs in the US compared to Canada (I'm fairly certain, though I don't have a reference to back it up, that the US Mint still produces its own cent planchets, rather than contracting the work), there's no way that Canadian cents are at any economic advantage compared to the US cent. Put another way, the Canadian cent is just as unprofitable for the Candian government to produce as the US cent, if not more so.--chris.lawson 03:19, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Canadian cents are copper-plated steel, not solid copper, and have been since 2000 (they were copper-plated zinc between 1997 and 1999), and 98% copper before 1997). Nik42 22:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Pennies are made of 94% steel, 1.5% nickel and 4.5% copper and have been since 1920. Before 1920 they were made of 95.5% copper, 3% tin and 1.5% zinc. Kyro123456789

This is untrue. See penny (Canadian coin). Steel has only been used since 2000. Nik42 06:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

In 1920, the Canadian penny was changed, but it wasn't a change of composition, just a change of size, from a diameter of 25.4 mm to 19.05 mm Nik42 06:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

You're untrue if you look at the daily newspaper Kyro123456789

What is that supposed to mean? The Royal Candian Mint's website itself says Today's one-cent coin, modified in 2000 to reduce cost, is made of copper-plated steel (94% steel, 1.5% nickel, 4.5% copper). From 1997 until 2000, the coin was made of copper-plated zinc. Prior to 1997 the one-cent coin was 98% copper, 1.75% zinc and 0.25% other metals., and I think they'd know better than anyone else. Where are you getting the idea that steel has been used for 87 years? Nik42 00:46, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Pennies are bullshit. What can you buy with a penny? Nothing! So why do we have them? Even if you save up a ton, who's going to count them? And besides, pennies cost more to mint than the value they hold. Pennies are worthless. --Defender 911 23:57, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say they weren't, I was just stating what they were made of. Where in my statement does it seem like I'm saying they're valuable? Nik42 04:06, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Other Uses

Isn't there a cartoon character called "Penny"? Drutt 01:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Probably. Penny is an actual name, even if not very common. Nik42 04:08, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

For ____ see _____

The top redirects need a good rewrite. 71.252.175.16 01:45, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

History of British penny moved from article

This article should be more general and there is already a History of the English Penny series

The British penny as a unit of currency dates back several hundred years. However, due to a shortage of coinage being minted, in 1797 Matthew Boulton set up a steam press in Soho, Birmingham minting large copper pennies. A total of 8,601,600 were struck. His work demonstrated the improvement gleaned from the application of steam power to the coining press. In addition to the copper penny being minted he also produced 722,160 copper twopence coins. All his coins were dated 1797 and many have survived to this day as collectors' pieces. The minting had to be halted in 1797 as these large coins had, at the time, a higher copper value than their face value. The pennies were exactly half the weight of the twopences. Again, in 1806 and 1807 lighter and thinner copper coins designed by Kuchler were struck at the Soho Mint. A total of 150 tons of copper was used for these two years.

It was not until 1825, during the reign of George IV, that minting restarted. Pennies were minted for three years during George IV's reign in 1825, 1826 and 1827 and depicted Britannia seated holding a trident on the 'tail' or reverse.

The entire mintage consignment of British 1827 pennies was allocated for use in Australia for the prison camps (Botany Bay Penal Colony) and, as a result, the shipment with the coins stored in wooden crates became badly corroded by salt water with literally only a handful surviving unscathed. Most suffered from corrosion and verdigris.

Only two known examples in UNCIRCULATED or 'mint' condition appear to have survived (one sold by a UK dealer for £8000 and the other owned by an American gentleman) with the remainder appearing in poor condition. However, a few coins have survived in non-corroded condition due to a tiny release in England at the time.

After 1827, it was not until the reign of William IV (Queen Victoria's uncle also known as the 'sailor king') that minting commenced again with copper pennies being minted in 1831, 1834 and 1837 (after the king had died). Victoria pennies continued to be minted in copper until 1859 when the Royal Mint decided to issue the coins in bronze. In 1860 the new bronze issue was minted with a beaded border on the coins. This proved unsuccessful and in the same year toothed border pennies were issued. The head or obverse of these coins depicted the young Queen Victoria with her hair tied in a bun. They became affectionately known as 'bun head' pennies and were issued until 1894.

From 1895 to the queen's death on 22nd January 1901, the pennies continued to show Britannia seated holding a trident with the 'head' or obverse showing the queen's veiled head.

1902 saw the introduction of Edward VII pennies and many people kept back this popular year. However, a smaller number were minted with a 'low tide' level in front of Britannia making them scarcer. Pennies continued to be minted into George V's reign between 1911 and 1936. The most famous and rarest of these is the 1933 penny.

There was no requirement for the Mint to produce any pennies in 1933 because there were already enough in circulation. Requests were, however, received for sets of coins dated 1933 to be placed under the foundation stones of buildings erected in that year, and the Mint obliged by striking a small number of coins. The result was to create a rarity that many people thought could turn up in their change.

The precise number struck was not recorded at the time but it is now thought to be certainly less than ten and probably seven. The surviving 1933 pennies are to be found in the Mint Museum, the British Museum, the University of London and two in private collections - see list below.

It has been reported that one example had been placed under the foundation stone of St. Mary’s Church, Hawksworth Wood, Kirkstall, Leeds, England. Three documented examples had been placed in foundation stones of buildings erected in 1933. In September 1970, during construction at Church of St. Cross, Middleton, one of these examples was stolen by thieves who managed to remove the coin from the church's cornerstone. In response, the Bishop of Ripon ordered that the St. Mary's Church 1933 Penny be unearthed and sold as a protective measure to prevent its theft. It was sold at Sotheby's Auction house on 24th November, 1972.

There are seven (now possibly eight) known examples of the 1933 penny. Here are their locations:

1. Royal Mint Museum at Llantrisant in South Wales

2. British Museum

3. Under the foundation stone of the University of London Building in Bloomsbury, London

4. Under the foundation stone of St Mary's Church, Hawksworth Wood, Kirkstall, Leeds - this one was part of a 1933 year set which was stolen circa 2003

5. Under the foundation stone of the Church of St Cross, Middleton - this one was part of a 1933 year set which was stolen in 1970

6. One held as part of the Norweb Private Collection in the USA (the one now sold by Mark Rasmussen last year)

7. One held in private hands here in the UK (this is the one being sold)

The are approximately 12 known 'Lavillier Patterns' of the 1933 penny. These are slightly more common and command a price of around 18-20k. They are not as sought after as the currency coin.

After George V's death in 1936, there were just two 1937 Edward VIII pattern pennies struck. During World War II, due to a metal shortage, no pennies were minted during 1941, 1942 and 1943. Mintage was resumed in 1944 until George VI's death in February 1952.

The 1950 (240,000 minted) and 1951 pennies (120,000 minted) were minted in very small numbers and, as such, were not issued for circulation in the UK but sent to Bermuda.

After her father's death, the present Queen Elizabeth had, apart from her Coronation Year in 1953, no pennies minted until 1961 with the exception of 1954 when just one coin was struck. During the period from 1961 to 1967, Elizabeth II pennies were struck in very high numbers resulting in an over production during the last year of mintage, 1967, when 654,564,000 were produced. This is now viewed upon as being unnecessary as Decimalisation had been planned a year later in 1968 when the new 5p and 10p coins were issued. Decimalisation was effective from 15th February, 1971.

The lettering "new pence" was changed to "pence" on British decimal coinage in 1982. Irish pound decimal coinage only used "p" to designate units (possibly as this sufficed for both the English word "pence", and Irish form "pingin").

In 2004, 530,110,000 United Kingdom pennies were issued, according to the Royal Mint.

--Wtshymanski 21:25, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation page needed

This subject badly needs a disambiguation page. I'm dubious if a now defunct British coin needs the main term, but either way there are about 20 articles hat should be included. Johnbod 14:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

The British Penny is still in use and not defunct. Martin451 (talk) 04:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

"not official" name

"penny is what everyone in america calls the one-cent coin, i believe the united states mint needs to upgrate their vocabulary(official is a matter of opinion) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.155.125 (talk) 23:35, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Nails clarification

The unreferenced section on Nails says that the price per weight origin is specious, but gives no source for this assertion. While I would generally agree that this seems invented, a source would greatly improve this section. Oswald Glinkmeyer (talk) 14:43, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

The new penny is no longer used in Great Britain??

Under a big header "Usage" it currently says "The new penny is no longer used in Great Britain." What on earth is this meant to mean? It's honestly pretty devoid of meaning at the moment and if it cannot be clarified would be better removed. I've fact-tagged it for now. Cheers DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered (talk) 08:02, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

which cape

It says that the cartwheel pennies were introduced at the cape, but does not specify which cape. The word cape links to the garment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.25.65 (talk) 15:52, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

The vengeful pay in pennies

I was wondering if there is any place on wikipedia (probably not this article) for stories like this:

1. Paid with 33,500 in pennies, USA Today: Mich. court win nets $335 — in pennies[2]
2. Paid with 100,000 pennies. Paid in Pennies, Lawyer Takes Fee Fight to Court,
3. Snope.com: Baseball player pays fine with pennies
4. Paid with 12,000 pennies. Associated press: [3]
5. wcbstv.com: Warrant Issued After Man Tried To Pay $56 Traffic Fine With Coins.[4]
6. Legal cases about courts refusing to accept money in pennies, mtas.tennessee.edu:[5] citing State v. Carroll andMartin v. Rhode Island Co.

Ikip (talk) 21:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

If you can find some solid references, it sounds promising. The key is to discuss the issue as it relates to pennies, not to create a list of incidents. A few examples might illustrate the point — especially those which made case law. The problem with examples is that it is easy to start adding more examples, then loosely related examples and eventually become buried in trivial details. Novangelis (talk) 23:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

thanks for the response. The sources are solid USA Today, Associated press. Would it be on this page? Ikip (talk) 18:44, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I can't think of a better location. I looked at a few: Payment, Debt Legal tender, Coin, and Nuisance.

As for sources, USA Today is more than acceptable. Law journals or court rulings would be ideal, but are not required. The goal is to have a concise statement of pennies and laws regarding their use, backed by sources that fully support what you say. I think you're on the right track.Novangelis (talk) 19:29, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

a well asked question is, "are pennies made of pure copper?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.200.234.189 (talk) 01:04, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Section about pennies makes no cents

This sentence (pardon the pun) makes no sense:

In Northumbria, pennies, made of silver, were being minted in the name of Bishop Eadbert (consecrated between 772 and 782, died between 787 and 789), some in the name of his brother Archbishop Egbert (the shilling is one of the oldest of English coins, preceding the penny).

What is it supposed to have said? rowley (talk) 05:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

That one struck me as odd, too. There is quite a bit of disorganization in this article, especially in the history of British pennies. Also, the "coins, preceding the penny" statement is contradicted later in the article. Huw Powell (talk) 18:15, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

It's all very odd - the article claims that the shilling precedes the penny, yet the article about the shilling states that the shilling coin was only introduced in Tudor times, making the penny many centuries older, of course. 86.163.2.108 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:41, 30 October 2011 (UTC).

Weight of the medieval penny

In the section "Value" the current text reads "Charlemagne declared that 240 pennies or pfennigs should be minted from a pound of silver. A single coin thus contained about 1.9 grams of silver." 240 pennies times 1.9 grams comes out to 456 grams, which is pretty close to the modern Avoirdupoids pound (453 grams). But the Avoirdupoids pound was not in use in Charlemagne's time. He would have been using something more like the ancient Roman pound, which was only twelve ounces, not sixteen. Taking the Roman pound as equivalent to the pound Tower Weight used in contemporary English coinage (326 g), a Carolingian penny was probably more like 1.36 grams.

Agemegos (talk) 06:52, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Why all the speculating? Just go to Google Images, look up "Carolingian penny" or better yet "Carolingian denier" + "gram" then click on any item that looks like the real thing, visit the website that supplied the image, then search on the word "gram." Carolingian pennies have an average mass of about 1.70 grams, resulting in a theoretical Carolingian pound of 408 grams.

Dig a little deeper, and you find discussions of why coin weights don't always add up to published pound weights (something to do with people at the mint taking their allotted percentage). Not sure how valid that is, but it seems worth looking in to.

As for the connection between the Roman, Carolingian and Tower weights, yes, there is a historical connection, but it's about as distant as the connection between the modern kilogram and the ancient Roman pondus libra.

Zyxwv99 (talk) 17:51, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

What about a six-penny nail

What about a six-penny nail? What does "penny" mean in that case? –radiojon 05:10, 2004 May 10 (UTC)

The cost of a box of 100 long ago -- Nik42 04:19, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

I think that may not be the case - I understand it was a measure of the weight of the nail. Riventree (talk) 04:22, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Australians use 5c

The 5c coin is the lowest denomination coin in Australia, not the 10c. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.223.210 (talk) 04:50, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Canadian Penny

The penny is no longer used in Canada. It costed anywhere between 1.5 and 6 cents to make 1 penny although probably closer to 1.5 - 2 cents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.103.221.52 (talk) 18:57, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

"tuppence"

Surprised not to find this word appearing anywhere in the article. Also, I'd have thought "two cents" has to be described as an American usage. Kim Traynor | Talk 09:45, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

We should change the picture

At present the main picture for this article is an American 1 ¢ piece, should we not use a British Penny as the main image? The American 1 ¢ coint is based on the British penny and more to the point is not officially called a penny whereas a British penny is. Or we could use the Australian or even the Ghanan coin, but I really disagree with using the American 1 ¢ piece as the primary image for this article. Hawjam (talk) 02:12, 11 March 2012 (UTC)Hawjam

I couldn't agree more with your observation and see that someone has acted upon it. But isn't the lead image pretty ghastly? Completely untypical design and awful colour. Like no penny I've ever seen. Kim Traynor | Talk 09:50, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

All British pennies minted in the past five years have looked like that. --McGeddon (talk) 10:02, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Eighth Century silver penny worth about $1 USD or 60p

Prior to the discovery of the Americas, silver was worth a great deal more in real terms than it has been for most, if not all, of modern times. Hence this passage is essentially irrelevant and should be changed. I'll do it after I find suitable cites, but do not object if someone else wants to cut in and do it first.Pithecanthropus4152 (talk) 03:49, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Good catch. Indeed "As of September 2013, this would cost about £0.60 or 1 US dollar" doesn't have a source. I just tagged it and added a source for Pepin's declaration. The source I found didn't draw a comparison with present-day purchasing power. Good luck finding a source on pennies that does. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 20:54, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

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Proposed merge with Elimination of the penny

It does not have enough information to be independent article Arthistorian1977 (talk) 06:30, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Removal of potentially duplicate content

I have removed content recently added to this article per WP:BRD. It is very similar in overall content to what is currently in the "Criticism" section, including duplication of the {{main}} template.

• "The elimination of the penny is a decision taken by some governments in which they stop minting the one cent coin." - covered by the {{main}} template (not explicitly, of course, but simply by the title of the linked article).
• "There are a couple of examples of countries that have decided to discontinue the penny due to a variety of reasons, like high production cost (the penny is worth less than its cost of production), low purchasing power and low utility." - already mentioned
• "Some examples are Australia, Finland, New Zealand, Norway, the Netherlands, Sweden and Canada." not all of these countries have a "penny," and the ones that do have already been mentioned.
• "Canada's Economic Action Plan has phased out the penny in 2012." already mentioned

The "Rounding" sub-subsection is relevant to Withdrawal of low-denomination coins, and not to the penny specifically. Primefac (talk) 22:01, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:ENGVAR

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This edit and its follow-ups established the usage of this page as American English. Kindly maintain it consistently, pending a new consensus to the contrary. — LlywelynII 13:47, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

But that edit does not commit itself to any particular form of spelling. Do you have an example of an early edit that does this? StAnselm (talk) 18:48, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Nor is that a "significant edit", taking the article beyond a stub, as I think the policy says. Since the penny is a British unit of currency with over 1,000 years behind it, but only a nickname for an American coin (not even a unit), I think "strong national ties" apply. I can't see any spelling differences up to late 2006 - eg here, though the article is very largely about British pennies. Johnbod (talk) 22:28, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

I have removed the "American English" tag above. On a quick look, I can't see any ENGVAR spellings up to 2011. Later a "modelled"/"modeled" was introduced (and subsequently switched around). I think we should establish a new consensus that the article uses British English, as appropriate for the great bulk of the content at all stages in its history. I've given reasons here; any counter-arguments should go below - but remember that if we establish a new consensus, the past doesn't matter. Johnbod (talk) 13:18, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

The page began as a discussion exclusively of American and Canadian currency and the next edit introduced the American usage of pennies where British English would have pence. Further, the primacy of "pennies" for the American currency is apparently so strong that we have the US cent parked at penny (US). Now, that said, you're probably right about the stubbish nature of the articles at that point. — LlywelynII 19:41, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

I've only just noticed the first point, which is wrong. "Pennies" is fine in many British English contexts, including here, and "pence" is normally only used in prices. Johnbod (talk) 02:21, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. "Pennies" means "multiple penny coins"; "pence" means "a value of multiple pennies". It's similar to the distinct between "fishes" and "fish". A British coin collector would say "I have a collection of over 200 pennies", not "200 pence".  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  07:18, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Propose British English:

• Support per above. Johnbod (talk) 13:18, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support per strong national ties. StAnselm (talk) 18:51, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support there's strong national ties _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 07:59, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose as there aren't stronger national ties, so long as the American coin is located at penny (US) and the scope of this page is all pennies and not merely British currency. (We have a truly ridiculous number of articles on the English and British penny; this page, however, isn't one of them.) — LlywelynII 19:46, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

This article has precisely one line in the US section, but far more on other BE ENGVAR countries besides the UK. The precedent and strong national ties arguments are in any case over-ridden by any new consensus formed. Do you have any actual arguments why American English is more suitable for the article as we have it today? If not, why are you opposing? Johnbod (talk) 19:49, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

This article needs to have its American section expanded, you're quite right. That should happen. Similarly, there's no national tie and there was precedent, even if you choose to look past it (or, less tendentiously, uphold the non-stub bit of the ENGVAR doctrine). You and two British buddies aren't a new consensus and no one would take it for one, but I'd be fine with opening up a WP:RFC on the point to broaden the opinions. — LlywelynII 20:16, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Why, what is there to say? We are heading for for a consensus here - an Rfc on this would be well OTT but do it if you want. I thought you were maintaining the article had always used US English. There seem to be only a couple of points where it makes any difference anyway. I'm still not seeing any reasons from you why this is better for the article. Johnbod (talk) 20:19, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Well, a Brit wouldn't think it's "better" and, since there aren't much stronger ties one way or the other, it isn't "better for the article" one way or the other. It's just what it started as and has now, which I noted, and then you challenged. And yeah I'm not seeing the reasons for that either, but we can see what the general community thinks and just go with that. — LlywelynII 20:35, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Which WP:ENGVAR should the generic article on "penny" use? British owing to "national ties" or American owing to a lack of national ties for the generic article and the original and current use of American English in the article? — LlywelynII 20:35, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

This isn't a neutrally phrased RfC - it's begging the question. Where is the evidence for the original use of American English in the article? StAnselm (talk) 21:23, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Indeed. Anyway, British is more appropriate, as by far the greater part of the article deals with pennies from Britain, or other countries whose engvar is closer to BE. "Penny" is only a nickname for the US 5 cent coin. Johnbod (talk) 03:25, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

I think t you meant the current US 1 cent coin.

Anyway,the term is primarily UK, the article is primarily about the UK and other countries using their variety of English, and should be written in UK English. DGG ( talk ) 02:36, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

It's not a nickname over here in Yankeeland; it's the standard term for the 1-cent coin (as a coin, not a value) in American English. But the US coin has only a single data-point of a relevance in this entire article, which is a stronger argument for an ENGVAR change to British/Commonwealth English.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  07:12, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support - Anyone in the world would associate Penny with the UK, and that's because it's the most common currency in the UK, ... so therefore it should be UK spelling, As an aside I tend to watch American vloggers etc on Youtube and I've never heard any of them call it "a penny" and I'd imagine If I ever went there it would probably be the same .... Anyway as I said most people associate with the UK so therefore British spelling should be the default. –Davey2010^Talk 04:53, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose In standard, common US usage coins are dollars, quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies. It's pennies in Canada also. Few if any people raised in North America would think of the UK when they hear "penny". We should follow ENGVAR policy and base the article's ENGVAR on the first sign of English variation ("pennies" instead of "pence", see Llywelyn, above). Jojalozzo (talk) 22:13, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Have you got a diff which tells us that the first sign of English variation was for US-English? StAnselm (talk) 22:19, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

WP:ENGVAR says "When an English variety's consistent usage has been established in an article, maintain it in the absence of consensus to the contrary." If we establish a "consensus to the contrary" now, the history (analysed above) doesn't matter. Several editors above, including Americans, think the subject has strong national ties to British English countries, where (unlike the US) the penny has been an actual unit of currency for over 1,000 years. That "Few if any people raised in North America would think of the UK when they hear "penny"" is not exactly a knock-down argument! On the first US/UK edit, Llywelyn above is wrong (see above). Johnbod (talk) 02:14, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) As noted in the pre-RfC discussion, the "pennies"/"pence" distinction isn't valid.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  07:18, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support BrEng per WP:COMMONSENSE. Much of the citation to WP:ENGVAR is misplaced, because we do "first major contributor" (or "first post-stub version" or whatever we're calling it now) analysis when normal consensus discussion fails. The vast bulk of this article, with a one-liner exception, is about coinage in Commonwealth nations, and the written form of their English varieties (in a formal register) is essentially indistinguishable (our profusion of nationalistic templates notwithstanding) from British English, except in Canadian (sometimes). Any normal consensus discussion should arrive at a conclusion to use British English here. No WP:VESTED / WP:OWN junk need be waved by anyone.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  07:12, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

• British English The name of the US coin is a cent, is it not? In British Commonwealth nations, a penny - and the half-penny, ha'penny, penn'orth and other similar words are common currency, so to speak. This is a situation where the weight of usage lies fairly on the British side. --Pete (talk) 10:35, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

I have no strong opinion on the overall question, but americans call 1-cent pieces "pennies" almost invariably. A "cent" is more or less the name of the unit. 0x0077BE ^{(talk · contrib)} 19:53, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• British English, as the term seems to have been used first in Britain per WP:ENGVAR. Chrisw80 (talk) 04:32, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Pence (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:31, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Etymology

Worth noting here that the Online Etymology Dictionary is not actually a reliable source. It gives a fully reconstructed Proto-Germanic *panninggaz on apparently no basis whatsoever and is contradicted by Britannica and the OED. He seems to have found one theory, not sourced it, and not noted the controversy. One would think at that point, he would've just made up a PIE derivation, but what can you do? — LlywelynII 13:43, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

About the Etymology of Penny. The same origin of other coin names has been considered. As Thaler comes from the name of the place the Silver was obtained; Joachimsthal (Joaquin valley) and from there Thaler meaning "from the valley" Also "Penny" could come from the place the silver was obtained, which could be either the famous British silver mines in the North Pennine mountains (name that could derive either from Celtic Penn or from the Italian Pennines) or from mines near the Breton town of Pennestin (Penne's Tin) where silver was obtained also. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.57.112.133 (talk) 18:12, 12 December 2018 (UTC)