Talk:Penguin/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 May 2020 and 2 July 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Carson Lutz.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 06:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled

Palaeeudyptines section needs more citations49.245.121.193 (talk) 08:18, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Penguin flight evolution

Randy Hockenberry, the flightlessness of penguins can be elaborated upon. One of the most complete penguin fossils was discovered in Peru, and shows resemblance to modern day penguin wings. It also showed adaptations to the feathers that were adapted for aquatic life. Also, the wing structure of penguins allows them to excel in swimming, but would make flying very difficult. They have larger, heavier bones and more feathers which would weigh down the penguins and make it hard to fly. It could also be added that the penguins lost any ability to fly simply because they are boomers. They may not have had any predators that they would have to fly away from, therefore they became adapted for swimming instead. Brandyedmonds.93 (talk) 21:51, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

• http://www.pnas.org/content/110/23/9380.full
• http://www.sciencemag.org/content/330/6006/954.full.pdf
• http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2462941?uid=3739840&uid=2134&uid=2478950723&uid=2478950713&uid=2&uid=70&uid=3&uid=3739256&uid=60&sid=21104688864383

@Brandyedmonds.93: Going through above links I discovered that we can help the article with, what you think? — CutestPenguin^Hangout 05:14, 28 September 2014 (UTC) we will defeat all of humanity

From: Hf

Link to dogs being banned

Sorry if this is being done wrong, but I've never needed to use the talk section before. In the Penguins and Humans section it asks for a citation for dogs being banned. I found what appears to be an authoritative link.

http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/about_antarctica/environment/wildlife/removal_of_sledge_dogs.php

Since the article is protected, I was unable to add the link myself.

If there's a better way for me to do this in the future, I'd be happy to listen to instructions.

Thanks.

Added, thanks. Materialscientist (talk) 05:08, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

wikiminis

Hola wikipedia les informo que deberian hacer articulos mas resumido serian de mucha ayuda. gracias — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.243.149.193 (talk) 14:08, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Why does "Ptilopteri" redirect here?

Not mentioned in article. 86.179.191.90 (talk) 02:48, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Redirected back in 2004. Looks like it (and Impennes) are archaic names for a grouping similar to the Sphenisciformes. Andrew Gray (talk) 12:02, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 September 2016

none of this is true — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zavierscott (talk • contribs) 13:57, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

None of it? Including their color and the fact they are largely aquatic? Which bits aren't true please back it up with sources. WikipediaUserCalledChris (talk) 16:29, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Well, all I know is that they can truly fly. If they flap there wings and get off the ground it is technically flying so...

Exclusively Southern?

Several times, for example in the open sentence ("Penguins (order Sphenisciformes, family Spheniscidae) are a group of aquatic, flightless birds living exclusively in the Southern Hemisphere.") the article says they are exclusively a southern hemisphere family - what about the Galapagos penguins that live north of the equator? 109.149.246.200 (talk) 20:32, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Well spotted. I've made some edits to reflect this. DrChrissy ^(talk) 20:44, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Possible removal from list

An entry in List of colors: N–Z contained a link to this page.

The entry is :

• Penguin White

I don't see any evidence that this color is discussed in this article and plan to delete it from the list per this discussion: Talk:List_of_colors#New_approach_to_review_of_entries

If someone decides that this color should have a section in this article and it is added, I would appreciate a ping.--S Philbrick(Talk) 13:36, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

I've never heard of "penguin white". Certainly can't imagine why it would link to the penguin article regardless of whether it's "real" or not! MeegsC (talk) 14:21, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2018

Include in "In popular culture" how the Netflix series "atypical" protagonist makes constant, detailed references on penguins. "Emperor, chinstrap, adelie, gentoo"

Also in the main article "cultural depictions of penguins" Gabtheparrot (talk) 14:26, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

 Not done This is trivia. Fish+Karate 14:28, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 November 2018

2601:CF:8200:523B:D94A:1A18:8A07:B5C1 (talk) 02:00, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

pls

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 02:22, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 November 2018

2601:CF:8200:523B:D94A:1A18:8A07:B5C1 (talk) 02:02, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

pls

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 02:22, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi, this is a test to see what this does... don't mind me — Preceding unsigned comment added by Changingforfun (talk • contribs) 18:52, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 March 2019

there are no penguins in the northern hemisphere LouisThePenguin 09:17, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: Galapagos penguin NiciVampireHeart 09:31, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2019

Please restore the redlinks that were removed from the article without explanation [1]. 165.225.16.69 (talk) 10:39, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

 Done –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 17:07, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Why protected?

Why is this article even locked to editing in the first place?92.206.251.75 (talk) 12:37, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

According to the log, the article was protected for excessive vandalism. Some attempts at unprotecting it over the years just led to more vandalism so the protection was reinstated. For more information please see WP:PP and WP:VANDALISM. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 14:42, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2020

From Citation Hunt: Add http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20151223-if-you-think-penguins-are-cute-and-cuddly-youre-wrong as a citation for " When emperor penguin mothers lose a chick, they sometimes attempt to "steal" another mother's chick, usually unsuccessfully as other females in the vicinity assist the defending mother in keeping her chick 'citation needed'" Mariegossip (talk) 15:58, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

 Done Passed verification. Thank you for finding this source, Mariegossip. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:29, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 March 2020

Change 'also known as the fairy penguin, which stands around 40 cm' to 30 cm' Also change 'varies between 17 and 20 living species' to 17 to `18 living species' Boodoovol (talk) 10:23, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

​Thanks for noticing the first one, I have changed the first value to 33 cm since that is the value I could find in sources. If you have reliable sources for the proposed 30 cm then you can point to them. Which source are you using for "17–18 species"? – Thjarkur (talk) 10:46, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 March 2020

Change there are reports of velocities of 27 km/h (17 mph) to 15 km/h as unless i understand this incorrectly it means that there top speed is 27 km/h which is incorrect Boodoovol (talk) 10:33, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

This claim has been tagged as unsourced for 10 years now, so it can probably be removed as it is challenged here. However if you can point to reliable sources for your 15 km/h then that would be great. – Thjarkur (talk) 10:48, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: No response. Interstellarity (talk) 19:35, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Where is the citation for the claim in the overview that penguins spend half of their life on land and half of their life swimming?

This claim is made, but it is lacking a citation. Carson Lutz (talk) 00:18, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

where they live

They live in coastal Africa, north Pole, and also Polar Region. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.226.253 (talk) 21:05, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

There are absolutely no penguins at the North Pole. MeegsC (talk) 10:54, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Piplup line

Isn't Piplup line considered the Penguin pokemon? UB Blacephalon (talk) 02:56, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Etymology

https://www.google.com/search?q=penguin&rlz=1CAIGZW_enCA917CA917&oq=Penguin&aqs=chrome.0.0j46l2j0l3j69i60l2.2176j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&ssui=on — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.73.130.188 (talk) 14:38, 1 October 2020 (UTC) "An alternative etymology links the word to Latin pinguis" The bird is called Pinguin in German. German would not have got the word via Welsh. Also, we spell it the Latin way (i instead of e). Thus, this etymology is more likely. Original research, yeah I know ;) It's probably written somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.150.194.87 (talk) 22:08, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Etymology revisited

The current Etymology section is confusing and arguably contradictory. It needs a rewrite by an expert editor (I can't make head or tail of it, so there's no point in my trying to do it). --Ef80 (talk) 19:45, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

How does the penguin swimming look like

A so called "source" provided for a statement "Penguins' swimming looks very similar to bird's flight in the air." is a simple Youtube video showing swimming penguin. You just can't make it up even for Wikipedia parody sites. --Nomad (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:46, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 January 2021

I'd edit this myself, but the article is semi-protected. "The geographical and temporal pattern or spheniscine evolution corresponds closely to two episodes of global cooling" should read "pattern of."

 Done. Next time have a look at WP:ER for how to format this properly, but I've fixed it up for you. Volteer1 (talk) 15:40, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Club Penguin

Why is Club Penguin not mentioned in the popular culture section? SadmanTariq (talk) 05:59, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

It is not notable enough. CrayonArt45 (talk) 21:57, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Can penguin species hybridise?

Can penguin species hybridise? 86.184.52.111 (talk) 23:07, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

This is not a forum, find an answer somewhere else CrayonArt45 (talk) 23:40, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 March 2022

i want to edit now TomiLizzy (talk) 15:47, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:52, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Protected by PenguinPedia

I have found an edit I find questionable, under the Penguins and humans section, first paragraph last sentence, "Most Penguins are under the protection of the organization PenguinPedia." This has no citation and the only thing I can find about PenguinPedia is a book by this name (https://penguin-pedia.com/about/). With no mention of any organization by this name. Svelah Kaldra (talk) 02:30, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Removed. MeegsC (talk) 16:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

What a Terribly Written and Vague Description

Consider the following:

"They spend roughly half of their lives on land and the other half in the sea.

The largest living species is the emperor penguin (Aptenodytes forsteri):[5] on average, adults are about 1.1 m (3 ft 7 in) tall and weigh 35 kg (77 lb). The smallest penguin species is the little blue penguin (Eudyptula minor), also known as the fairy penguin, which stands around 30–33 cm (12–13 in) tall and weighs 1.2–1.3 kg (2.6–2.9 lb).[6] Today, larger penguins generally inhabit colder regions, and smaller penguins inhabit regions with temperate or tropical climates. Some prehistoric penguin species were enormous: as tall or heavy as an adult human. There was a great diversity of species in subantarctic regions, and at least one giant species in a region around 2,000 km south of the equator 35 mya, during the Late Eocene, a climate decidedly warmer than today."

1) "They ..." --> would that be penguins? 2) "are about 1.1m ... and weigh 35kg ..." --> 1.1m is pretty precise and can't see the need for the word "about". They are "about" 1.1m tall" but not about 35kg but precisely 35kg. 3) "The smallest penguin species ... stands around 30-33cm ... and weighs 1.2-1.3kg" --> 30-33cm is a range and so why the prefix of "around", and previously we see the use "weigh 35kg" and now see "weighs 1.2-1.3kg". 4) "Today ..." --> what, today Sunday the 1st of January? 5) "larger penguins generally ... and smaller penguins ..." --> the larger penguins "generally" do something whereas the smaller penguins do not "generally" do something - what confused logic. 6) "Some prehistoric penguin species" --> and what might they be? 7) "as tall or heavy as an adult human" --> and how tall and heavy was that? - We have adult humans ranging from 9 stones to 40 stones and a wide range of heights. And would that be a male or female adult human since males tend to be taller and heavier than females. 8) "There was a great diversity ..." --> how great? 9) "great diversity of species in subantarctic regions ..." -> which subantarctic regions? 10) "at least one giant species" --> which one? 11) "one giant species in a region ..." --> which region? 12) "around 2,000 km south of the equator 35 mya ..." --> I could draw a line down 2,000km around the Earth's sphere and it doesn't really pin-point where you mean. 13) "a climate decidedly warmer than today ..." --> by how much and doesn't that depend where you are located - I mean the arctic is pretty cold!

And so on and so forth. Absolutely shocking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.187.174.46 (talk) 09:38, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Fossil/Prehistoric Penguins?

Should there be a separate article for fossil penguins? I don't think there needs to be, but it could happen. Speaking of which, it should be noted under "Poorly Understood Taxa" if the fossils were only found in one location, a single bone or skeleton, etc. The "Notes" section only has the alternate names for the penguins. 64.124.38.140 (talk) 13:34, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Additional note: This should be noted under "Fossil genera" and not only "Poorly Understood taxa" 64.124.38.140 (talk) 13:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Possible proposed split

Would it be at all possible to split the "Fossil genera" section from the rest of the article? Specific types of prehistoric penguins have their own separate articles, and it would make sense to tie them back into a separate article. The biggest problem of making a separate article would be that both articles would become considerably short. You could fix this by having some information the same on both articles. 64.124.38.140 (talk) 14:45, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Lead image

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

This discussion is closed. It has been agreed upon to keep the collage, to add boarders around the images and not use a single animal. - FlightTime (open channel) 00:56, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

---

Should penguins be represented by one image or a collage in the lead?

Penguins are not complicated folks. This image is a high quality picture of a black-and-white bipedal bird in a polar/marine background. That is a good enough representation of penguins for the lead. Not every group needs a collage. We've got the rest of the article to show their diversity. I personally think there should be a wider discussion on when collages are needed. They tend to make it harder to focus on one image. LittleJerry (talk) 01:42, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I would also like to point out that in all but one of the images in the collage, the picture cuts off at the chest or torso. We don't even get a good look at the form of the penguin. The emperor in particular looks terribly cropped. LittleJerry (talk) 02:32, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure a Chinstrap is the best penguin to use. I think most people think of Emperor or King Penguins first. Otherwise, I do support replacing the current image. Ships & Space_(Edits) 10:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Giving my two cents, I Support the collage being included in the lead. One high quality image won't fully represent the difference in the group, especially appearance. The featured picture you support as the replacement isn't well known by non-biologists. Showing group colleges doesn't imply that all penguins in said group look like that. WILD MOUSE what? 02:12, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

"isn't well known by non-biologist" I don't understand. LittleJerry (talk) 02:27, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I believe they're referring to the "John Q citizen" you mentioned. - FlightTime (open channel) 04:42, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

i meant what exactly isn't known to a non-biologist. LittleJerry (talk) 05:00, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I would suggest that you would be surprised at how few people would immediately recognize that the animal in the picture you provide is a penguin at all, and I think this is also what was meant by WildMouse above. Obligatory xkcd. I do not especially have an opinion one way or the other whether a collage or single image is used, but this should not be the sole lead image in my opinion. Tollens (talk) 05:19, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

what makes it difficult to tell it's a penguin? LittleJerry (talk) 05:38, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I should perhaps clarify that I was brought here by the feedback request service and know practically nothing about birds of any sort. When I think of a penguin, I think almost exclusively of the kinds of images that come up if you do a google image search for "penguin". Looking at the differences I can see between the penguin in your suggested image and the ones I more easily recognize, the neck shape (or perhaps just the pose) is probably the biggest thing that would throw me off. Tollens (talk) 06:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Support collage in lead. waddie96 ★ (talk) 11:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

• Support Collage to show diversity, though it would be okay to just have four images instead of six. Reywas92^Talk 13:34, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
• Comment I do agree that the current collage is a bit visually distracting. At the same time, I think that the Penguin's appearance varies widely enough that the use of a collage may be warranted as an illustrative aid. That said, perhaps there is a way to address the problem itself? The Bird article also has a collage, but I find it slightly less distracting. That makes me wonder if it's because of the white borders between the images. Maybe introducing that to this article's collage could help. spintheer (talk) 04:48, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

  If we are going to have a collage them it should at least be displayed it like dog, rodent or snake. LittleJerry (talk) 14:04, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

That will work for me. In essence, the boarders is the key. - FlightTime (open channel) 14:31, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

As long as a collage is used for taxa with varying appearances, I'll be fine. WILD MOUSE what? 14:45, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, those look even better! spintheer (talk) 14:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

• Prefer collage because the chinstrap may not be as well-known by readers. Senorangel (talk) 01:58, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

  As long as it is recognizable as a penguin, the species shouldn't matter. But the discussion is over whether we should use one image or a collage generally. LittleJerry (talk) 17:24, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

  Penguins seem to be quite diverse in their appearances. Can one species be representative even if it is recognizable? I still think some readers may not be able to recognize the chinstrap. Senorangel (talk) 04:25, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

• Collage A variety of images is more helpful for a group rather than an image of a single penguin, even if the single image is technically higher quality. For an animal group, diversity is helpful to show, even if the differences were slight (which they're not). Unnamed anon (talk) 04:18, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

  "even if the differences were slight" you lost me there. slight differences should not be given undue weight over a legible image. LittleJerry (talk) 17:20, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

  I believe the opposite. Wikipedia is not the place to get extremely high definition photos. I think it's more valuable to show the differences between different species in a group than putting undue weight onto one species. If differences were slight, that's all the more reason because a side-by-side makes it easier to compare. And in this case, the differences are not slight, but decently noticeable. Unnamed anon (talk) 18:49, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

  Showing slight differences in the lead is absurd. It's more important to have an image that the average person can focus on and diversity is only important if it is significant. We have an entire article for more images you know. LittleJerry (talk) 04:30, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

  Either way, these are not slight differences in this case. Somebody mentioned that the neck shapes are all noticeably different, and I agree with them; the feather patterns are also different. There's also the distinction between Antarctic penguins and the relatively more obscure tropical penguins (which the collage accomplishes by showing their varieties of habitats). Unnamed anon (talk) 00:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Source [5] has an incorrect link.

The url currently found under source [5] contains '[...]/penguins/[...]' [2], but this should contain '[...]/penguin/[...]' [3]. Renzei z (talk) 19:56, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

@Renzei z:  Done! However, see Wikipedia:Edit requests#Making requests for guidance to make a properly formatted edit request so it can be done more quickly. Thanks! ObserveOwl (chit-chat • my doings) 22:22, 19 July 2024 (UTC)