Talk:Operation Postmaster

Comments

Some comments about the article:

• 'The SSRF under the command of Major 'Gus' March-Phillipps left Britain in August 1941 and sailed the Brixham trawler, Maid Honour, to the neutral Spanish colony' - You've already stated it was neutral in the leading sentence, so I'd cut that word out.
• 'The British Admiralty was receiving reports that German submarines were using the rivers in Vichy French Equatorial Africa as a base for refuelling' - I would add the general date (month or year, or even just year) at the start of this, as at the moment it's a tad abrupt.
• 'The Maid Honour, a 65 ton Brixham trawler, left England for West Africa with a crew of five under command of Major 'Gus' March-Phillipps. The remainder of the SSRF under command of Captain Geoffrey Appleyard had departed earlier aboard a troop transport ship' - Do we have dates for either of these departures - I imagine they're quite vital.
• 'In West Africa, SOE was engaged in monitoring Spanish, Portuguese and Vichy-controlled French possessions in order to detect and disrupt any activity threatening Britain's West African possessions; and in preventing the smuggling of diamonds from West Africa to the Axis powers.' - I would alter this to 'as well as prevent the smuggling of diamonds...'
• 'The three ships were the Italian 8,500 ton Merchant vessel Duchessa d'Aosta, the second was a large German tug boat the Likomba, the third was a diesel powered barge the Bibundi. ' - Repetition of 'the X was', needs to be changed to make it flow.
• 'The mission suffered a blow when the British General Officer Commanding (GOC) West Africa refused to support the mission and would not release the 17 men required, stating it would compromise some unnamed plans he had in mind and the act of piracy would have repercussions.' - This is just a personal query. I love this typically uppercrust British attitude on the part of the GOC - do we know who it was? Naming him might be worthwhile.
• Do we have any details about the diplomatic repercussions of the raid? Because I reckon that would be the only major obstacle content wise

from taking this to GA and even FA, if you're interested. Skinny87 (talk) 20:41, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

• Added some minor details to the article from Messenger. Skinny87 (talk) 21:01, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Text changed or details added - the GOC was Genral George Giffard, I think there was a little on the spanish reaction will check.--Jim Sweeney (talk) 03:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Spanish German and the British response added. --Jim Sweeney (talk) 14:06, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Great stuff, although the quotes to break the text up a bit. What do you think to paraphrasing them all? Oh, and if we can get the book on Larssen which was written by his daughter, apparently there are more details on the operation - Messenger mentions something about the captain of the Italian ship being German - apparently he was furious over the abduction and popped the Vice-Consul in the British Embassy in Madrid one, which caused him to be arrested and imprisoned. Skinny87 (talk) 16:17, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

All I can find about the Captain is that he had left for Europe leaving the unnamed 1st Mate in charge.--Jim Sweeney (talk) 16:29, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, well once we get Larssens book, we can add more details about the Captain if it all checks out. Not a major detail anyway. What do you think about paraphrasing the quotations? Even just the shorter Spanish and German ones would be good. Skinny87 (talk) 16:47, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

This link [1] confirms he was German but does not give a name. I'm not sure about the paraphrasing I like the quotes . --Jim Sweeney (talk) 16:49, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm. I still think they break the flow a little, but it's not a major issue - we'll see what future reviews say about it. In the meantime, I'll see where we can get hold of that Larssen book. Skinny87 (talk) 16:55, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and we should see if we can find any books on Spain during the war, see if this had any further political consequences past an angry radio broadcast - or explain why it never went further than that. Skinny87 (talk) 16:57, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

There's a problem with the lede. It states that 'The audacious raid boosted SOE's reputation at a critical time and demonstrated its ability to plan and conduct secret operations no matter the political consequences.[1]' However, this is never mentioned in the rest of the article, and really needs to be in the last section. Can you add those details, Jim? Skinny87 (talk) 19:49, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

I just had to rewrite a sentence coped exactly, word for word, from the National Archive website. Can you check the article to make sure this hasn't been done from any offline sources please? Skinny87 (talk) 21:14, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Great work on the article overnight! Just a couple of things - firstly, you've got a couple of direct quotes from Churchill and the Germans that you've turned into plain prose, they need single quotation marks to show where they start and finish. Secondly, the note on how SOE/British government bribed the Spanish is a tad confusing. Does it mean (and the sources say) thst SOE paid the Spanish the 10 million to keep them quiet after Operation Postmaster had come to an end? Because it seems to hint at that at the moment. Or is this just a general note on British-Spanish relations during the war, which I'm not sure we need? Cheers, Skinny87 (talk) 04:43, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Its just a note of the Spanish/British relation at the time. It looked good yesterday but on reflection I'm not so sure --Jim Sweeney (talk) 08:46, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay, Armed Forces weekend took up most of my time. I would suggest removing the note. At the moment, it's placement and wording seems to hint that the Spaniards didn't do anything due to Allied bribery. That's probably quite a lot of why they didn't respond, but at the moment it's kinda OR. Can we remove it, then, until we get some books on wartime Spain and Franco and see if anyone says why they didn't respond - or indeed if they did, perhaps diplomatically. What do you think? Skinny87 (talk) 15:23, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes as above not that convinced it works.--Jim Sweeney (talk) 16:49, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Hey, it was a good try, I just think we need some more specific information. I've no money to purchase any books on this subject (which is a real shame) and none of the books in my personal library shed any light. However, my local library may well have some books that will help, and if not I'll order some in. Do you have access to any other sources for this? Skinny87 (talk) 17:13, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

No my library has nothing else to offer, I have ordered Messengers Commandos from the British Library but they suggest that could take up to three weeks. Will just have to keep plodding on.--Jim Sweeney (talk) 19:34, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Is this correct?

"In 1941 the British Admiralty started receiving reports that German submarines were using the rivers in Vichy French Equatorial Africa as a base for refuelling."

Was not French Equatorial Africa in Free French hands by the end of 1940? Can somebody explain? Is French West Africa intended? Srnec (talk) 05:44, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Not all of French Equatorial Africa declared for Free France, parts were controlled by Vichy France. Jim Sweeney (talk) 13:51, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Which parts? As far as I'm aware they all declared for Free France save Gabon, which was conquered in late 1940. Srnec (talk) 23:07, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry not known its how its described in the source.Jim Sweeney (talk) 05:16, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Names

Maid Honour (once) or Maid Honor (four times)? Bibundi (twice) or Burundi (four times)? 216.255.165.198 (talk) 01:22, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Likomba (seven times) or Limkomba (once)? 216.255.165.198 (talk) 01:45, 21 November 2019 (UTC)