Talk:Muktananda

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Rodarmor as the source

We need to be very careful with using Rodarmor as the only source of extraordinary claims. Firstly, such claims must be corroborated by other sources independent from Rodarmor. Secondly, Rodarmor himself is very careful and purposefully vague. For instance, he has has not written anywhere that Muktananda himself issued death threats. In absence of direct quoting, we should really avoid going beyond what's in the source. — kashmīrī ^TALK 07:39, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tantra

Regarding this revert, edit-summary

Your quote is from the thesis, in Caldwell's work she concludes he was not a practitioner. Page 25 from your source, "Despite their diversity, these accounts bear little resemblance to the ecstatic Kaula rituals described by Abhinavagupta in his Tantraloka, and lack their most essential component, a fully aware, consenting female partner or yogini. Whatever Baba was doing, claiming it to be a form of Tantric initiation, seemed rather to retain only the bodily shell of a Tantric practice"

which removed

Sarah Caldwell argued that Muktananda was both an enlightened spiritual teacher and a practitioner of Shakta Tantrism, but also "engaged in actions that were not ethical, legal or liberatory with many disciples."^[1]

References

^ Sarah Caldwell (2001). "The Heart of the Secret: A Personal and Scholarly Encounter with Shakta Tantrism in Siddha Yoga". Nova Religio. 5 (1): 9–51. doi:10.1525/nr.2001.5.1.9. JSTOR 10.1525/nr.2001.5.1.9. S2CID 143965805.

see the same page 25:

My thesis is that Baba was an initiated Kaula practitioner, that he aspired to model himself after Abhinavagupta, and that he revered the secret teachings of the Kula path as the innermost core of his power

Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 02:36, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's Caldwell's take. But his autobiography (on cursory glance) doesn't mention the existence of any Tantra or Kaula teacher. It;s no secret that Muktananda was self-taught on Tantra, and from Hindi books since his understanding of Sanskrit was quite poor. Even assuming that he secretly admired Abhinavagupta (obviously, without studying his Sanskrit works), can we blindly copy Caldwell's assertion on Kaula here? For once I agree with the IP editor to remove the passage. Muktananda's acts were not Tantric practices IMO; it was sexual molestation and rape, plain and simple. — kashmīrī ^TALK 02:56, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We don't write about our opinions, we write about what WP:RS say. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 03:04, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We need to assess the value of sources ourselves. And we can judge that Caldwell has no idea about Kaula. — kashmīrī ^TALK 09:34, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Sarah Caldwell (2001). "The Heart of the Secret: A Personal and Scholarly Encounter with Shakta Tantrism in Siddha Yoga". Nova Religio. 5 (1): 9–51. doi:10.1525/nr.2001.5.1.9. JSTOR 10.1525/nr.2001.5.1.9. S2CID 143965805.

[1]