Jump to content

Talk:Metatron/Archive 1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1

Archangel Michael

The article about Michael states that rabbinic tradition declare that Michael visited Abraham ,Isaac and Jacob on several occasions. He is also considered the teacher of Moses and is the one who buried Moses. In the Kabbala he is the advocate of Jews. So my question is: Is michael and metatron the same angel? or they just happen to be at the same places at the same time? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.84.52 (talk) 12:49, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Endless list of other uses

The list of popular cultural references about Metatron is growing and growing. Do we really need this? Can we not do with the 3-4 most famous examples? JFW | T@lk 3 July 2005 10:02 (UTC)

... Well not until someone adds the final boss in the Spawn Gamecube game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.245.29.229 (talk) 04:05, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Also, I'm wondering about the provenance of the "Nortatem" move. it could be true, but it doesn't seem to fit. my guess would be it's more likely a mistake for Mortatem, which would be some form of the latin word for death. - Orion —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.62.137.201 (talk) 02:47, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I removed the statement that Megatron's name is derived from Metatron because I could find no evidence that this was true; also, given Megatron's nature, the etymology of his name seems pretty obvious. Taurrandir 05:14, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Metatron = Seraph?

In Dogma, Metatron identifies himself as a Seraph (or, "a Seraphim", as it actually says in the movie). Is this verifiable in the mythology? If so, it needs to be in the article. SpectrumDT 20:48, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Since the real meaning of Metatron remains unfold in the time, there are only one thing clear :Metatron is the more powerful being with the exception of the Creator, so the description fit better with Satan. But since Satan was (or is?) a seraph, so Metatron can be a seraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.112.11.93 (talk) 01:28, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

To Do List

I think it would be useful to list the things that need to be done with this article so that the "cleanup" tag can be legitimately removed? Suggestions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zahakiel (talk • contribs) 03:12, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

NPOV

Attention: Please arrange the article on Metatron. It has to be re-edited in an WP:NPOV manner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.106.233.102 (talk) 00:08, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Origins

I miss some datas about their origins about Sumer or more later about babylonics, and talking about the hebrew origins (about 500-1000 years later). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.112.11.93 (talk) 01:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure of what you are attempting to say. If you wish to add new information or return removed information, be bold! --Thisisbossi 04:13, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

References

There's seem to be many good citations, but unfortunaley they are not added at the bottom or compiled into notes. Would somebody care to do that? I added my reference. Xuchilbara 02:44, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

List of other names

Someone has been messing with the list of names for Metratron. How else can I explain the presence of "Winniethepooh" and "Stinkybutt" on it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.214.229.59 (talk) 20:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Be bold and remove vandalism. :) --Thisisbossi 04:13, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
how? Kairos 09:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Origin

The article states that Metatron does not appear in the scriptures. So where does he come from? Yeah, the article says there's no consensus on his genesis, but what about including some material on some of the most prominent theories by scholars? Nightscream 04:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to add existing research in, so long as it's not Original Research.Kairos 09:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Images

What happened to the images that used to be on this page? --Tydaj 16:52, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Look up the articles history, and who editted them out.Kairos 09:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Introduction

The introduction was sufficient, in my opinion, when it granted Metatron's precise place in the heavenly hierarchy "no consensus." Most of the new introductory material already is contained in the article where appropriate. What's new is the identification of Greater (?) Metatron with the first sephirah, which—although logical and given a reference—does not seem consistant with traditional kabbalah.

To avoid the kabbalah/qabbala/cabala disputes that have disturbed other articles, and to limit repetition of information, I will restore the older version of the introduction. Maybe we can have a section within the body of the article discussing Metatron's position among the sephiroth and/or the angels. —Hanina 10:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The intro needs something. It doesn't say much on Metatron at all and is very lacking. I'm going to look through my books and see if I can with something more significant and citable.

Xuchilbara 21:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Let's get rid of the disambiguation page

The page Metatron (disambiguation) is pretty small and useless. I suggest that we get rid of it and merge it into this one. Most of it can be done with a "Metatron in popular culture" section. SpectrumDT 19:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Some of those items already exist in this article, anyway. --Bossi (talk ;; contribs) 02:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Agreed, exactly as suggested. Fayenatic london (talk) 18:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Tranformers reference

"In the Transformers Universe, Decepticon leader Megatron is a biblical allusion to the figure Metatron." There is absolutely no data that supports the notion that Metatron has anything to do with Megatron. Removed. Aeligature 04:59, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Metatron's Cube

Anybody have a source for this 'metatron's cube' thing? Just saying that it's a 'kabbalistic tradition' is about as helpful as saying 'well, it's probably something to do with Judaism'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.131.73.197 (talk) 01:11, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

This may help: Metatron's Cube is related to the Hypercube. According to Aryeh Kaplan's commentary on the Kaballistic work the Sepher Yetzirah the Hypercube represents God's and our existence in five-dimensional space, the dimensions being the three that we know, Time and the Spiritual. Metatron's Cube seems to go one step further. I'm afraid I can't help you any more. What I want to know is what is the significance of Metatron's Cube? It obviously means something important but what? ThePeg 20:47, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Metatron in Islamic sources

Contrary to what was stated that there are no Islamic sources mentioning Metatron, there is a long angelological oeuvre tradition within specifically the Islamic occult and esoteric tradition which explicitly mentions Metatron. Ahmad al-Buni mentions the Archangel in his Great Sun of Gnoses (shams al-ma'arif al-kubra) as does the great Andalusian Master Ibn Arabi in his Book of the Spiritual Conquests of Mecca (futuhat al-makkiya). Metatron is referred to, inter alia, as both Metatron as well as malik al-nun (archangel of the letter 'n') whereby the first verse of the sixty-eighth chapter of the Koran is said by these occultist-esotericsts to refer to it. Ahwa85 03:40, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Could someone tell me what it is that these links add?

I think all 3 should be removed, but I'd like the input of others here before I do it. --OnoremDil 11:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


Thoroughly concur that they should be removed. Ahwa85 07:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC) 07:56, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I am all for it and had actually been planning to do a little link trimming myself, once I found the time. --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 11:36, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


IMMO the first two links are possibly relevant for those who feel and see Metatron as an active force inspiring love and light, not only through some ancient and honored traditions, but also in our actual world. I think that the channeled messages in these website are of a very high level, and can lead to a better understanding of this entire subject. I will get them here again, hope we can have a sufficiently large views for them to stay here. Gco 18:06, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Torah

The article lists the Torah and the Old Testament as the same thing. This is not the case. The Hebrew word for the Old Testament is the Tanach. The Torah is only the first part of this.

{{sofixit}}. JFW | T@lk 07:21, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
The TANAKH is made up of three books:

1)The Torah,the "five books of Moses", which are the first five books of the Old Testament(Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers&Deuteronomy). 2)Nevi'im (The Prophets) 2)Kethuvim(The Writings)


I suggest to the moderators of this entry to add this link to the scholarly article on Metatron's role as the Prince of Torah : http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/metatronsartorah --Enochmetatron (talk) 02:16, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Revelation through Metatron

"Metatron is over de ministering angels. It is written, the great prince is over all the princes and over all the angels ministering."

"Metatron speaks in a great sound and small silence"

From the "Zeh Hethepheleh tzeriek lomer bekovoneh gedoleh" (the prayer required to establish greatness) book four, part three, of the "Sepher Rezial Hemelach" as translated by Steve Savedow.

It also tells that Metatron spoke to Moses through the burning bush. --Tokle 16:19, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, the Talmud (tractate Sanhedrin) suggests that the Jews were offered revelation through Metatron but rejected this. JFW | T@lk 16:44, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I suggest to the moderators of this entry to add this link to the scholarly article on Metatron's role as the Mediator who reveals Torah to Moses : http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/metatronmediator --Enochmetatron (talk) 02:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

You got to be kidding me

This is so not actual theology or mythology. It's just some crazy load of bull invented by the new cult crazies like LaVey and the always funny Aleister Crowley. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.201.165.176 (talk) 20:28, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Which part was invented by LaVey and Crowley? If you refer to Metatron's cube, please feel free to contribute to the article. If you mean Metatron's role in the Heikhalot, his relationship to Enoch, or his association with sefirot —then you are surely incorrect. Hanina (talk) 00:57, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Possible Dr Who reference

In the episode Dalek (Doctor Who episode), the dalek was given the name "Metaltron". Dunno whether this is significant. --75.177.3.50 23:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

It's not. More likely the coinage was aping Megatron if it was meant to ape anything; there is nothing in the episode to suggest allusion to a Biblical context. Van Statten was obsessed with extraterrestrial gadgets, not with angels. 71.200.140.35 (talk) 11:56, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Atlus' Shin Megami Tensei

I placed an {{unclear}} banner in the "In the Media" section (essentially a trivia section, btw) due to the Atlus' Shin Megami Tensei reference. Speaking as someone unfamiliar with this video game, this paragraph is gibberish, and Metatron is not mentioned at all in the article linked. I think the paragraph either requires additional and clearer explanation of whatever it's trying to say, or it should be deleted outright. 71.200.140.35 (talk) 12:04, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

More Etymology

I'm afraid my citation inside of rapapports theory is partially incorrect. I couldn't figure out how to transliterate the word properly since I'm not good at greek. Any idea of what sounds like thon and means to change and pass on. I can try to place the greek letters in the article but I don't have the book here now. Wolf2191 01:46, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


The Cube...makes it so —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.83.32.155 (talk) 16:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The importance of language and names

"He [the Holy One] called me, 'The lesser YHVH' in the presence of his whole household in the height, as it is written, 'My name is in him.'" ( Full text of "The portraiture of a Christian gentleman"7 convention or contrivance, but of causes be- yond human forecast or control, ...... The communication with the god- less he cannot altogether avoid : he cannot avoid ...... hAMK MBJKi T. The reipns of the two first (iwirpi'S wtTC |K'ri»MU ...... SAtOV »ll!| IT,»1 H A»n. to o o E 0; a) c6 •H +3 .^-^ 03 0~) . ... www.archive.org/stream/.../portraitureofchr00robeuoft_djvu.txt )

Martin Michael Musatov —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.176.1.44 (talk) 00:16, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

His Dark Materials reference is incorrect

In His Dark Materials, it is explicitly stated that Authority, the angel, is NOT God. He only claims to be. Saying that Metatron met Yaweh is wrong, thus; I don't know how to suitably change it though. If someone could edit it properly, that'd be nice. Ashilikia (talk) 03:32, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Etymology

Metatron? Are we sure that this is not some Japanese robot? :-) At18 22:37, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Yeah. When I heard it in Dogma, I found the name very unfitting, like Panasonic or something. Is there some Hebrew etimology for it? -- Error 00:57, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It's more likely that Japanese writers took the name and used it in their stories for alegoric purposes, as they do often with Greek, Nordic and Egyptian mythology characters. I would hardly relate the Andrómeda godess to an android for example.Stratogustav (talk) 04:23, 4 February 2010 (UTC) Gustavo Avilés

The OED just says it's from post-biblical Hebrew. The japanese robot joke has actually been done in Good Omens:
"The Voice of God. The Metatron."
"No, it isn't. The Metatron's made of plastic and it's got laser cannon and it can turn into a helicopter."
"That's the Cosmic Megatron. I had one, but the head fell off."
-- DrBob 01:06, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Metatron is a hebrew contraction - metat (up) tron (down). Up-down, i.e. the mediator/go-between between our world and the spiritual. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.131.73.197 (talk) 01:08, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Metatron is Greek roughly meaning "high instrument"; Metatron is both a higher order of being (an angel -- one who transcends mortals) and an instrument of God, particularly of God's Voice. User:Alcarillo 15:00 19 Apr 04 utc

Two other theories: 1. Metatron is from the Greek meta tronos, "beside/beyond the throne" of God, referring to the angel's station. 2. The name is from the Latin metator, "guide." Michael Sidlofsky 15:44, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

But the inclusion of the name in these qabbalic writings would suggest that the name is of hebrew origin, and not, as contemplated above, latin or greek. --Tokle 12:48, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I will not speculate on that. I'm sure there is a Hebrew etymology of Metatron somewhere, but I can't remember where I saw that. JFW | T@lk 21:09, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I found two hebrew words Metatron could possibly derive from; Matara, which means "keeper of the watch" and the qabbalistic term metator, which means "guide or messenger"--Tokle 12:25, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It appears that your discussion on the etymology of names of Metatron is lifted from Andrei A. Orlov, The Enoch-Metatron Tradition (TSAJ, 107; Tuebingen: Mohr-Siebeck, 2005) 92-97. Thre are even similar expressions. Yet this this book is not mentioned on the page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Enochmetatron (talk • contribs) 22:49, 26 November 2006.

Your quite right The Enoch-Metatron Tradition is used because it gives a great overview of the whole etymology. Its drawing together of Enoch and Metatron together is really interesting too. It should be listed on here as an external link but I can't find it. Ill add a standard reference until someone can find out where I downloaded my copy from :o I don't like the term lifted btw as its not a direct copy from the book by any means although I can't deny they would be pretty similar as I used it as a basis for the content. -- Shimirel (Talk) 16:07, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The article said that "tron" was Greek for "matrix", but there's nothing in Liddell and Scott to justify that. As far as I can tell, Hesychius of Alexandria defines trona as some kind of delight (in the flowery flow?), and tronoi means warp, cord, spindle. Then as mentioned above, thronos means chair, seat, throne, which could make sense, especially in view of the story about Elisha ben Abuyah. None of the words with "matrix" or "womb" in their definition is anything like "tron". So I took it out.
The closest I found to "high instrument" is that ankistron is a surgical instrument, metron is a measuring instrument, theratron an instrument of the chase such as a net or trap, plektron an instrument for striking the lyre (plectrum), and phimotron an instrument for stopping up. Maybe Alcarillo is thinking that there's a suffix tron meaning "instrument"? There could be for all I know, but most of the words for different kinds of instruments have other endings.
The parts about Enoch, including the bit about two Metatrons, could use sources. —JerryFriedman 01:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

tron is taken from the greek word Trutänh balance, pair of scales according to the oxford english dictionary. It dates back to 1290 and you can see it being used as an instrument in markets for weighing. Its used in 1526 (rare use) to mean throne and in 1939 (and others) to mean either an instrument in general or a particle, its described as a Greek instrumental suffix. Matrix seems to originate from a latin word originally meaning a pregnant animal and later a womb going back to 1526. Meta seems to be a Greek and Latin prefix meaning sharing, action in common, pursuit or quest; and especially change. As was mentioned previously there is very little on the origin of Metatron in the OED. The oldest mentioned in my copy of OED is "1865 C. D. Ginsburg Kabbalah 27 The Kabbalistic description of Metatron is taken from the Jewish angelology of a much older date than this theosophy. Metatron is the Presence Angel the visible manifestation of the deity." Two other intresting items are "1941 G. G. Scholem Major trends Jewish Mysticism II 66 The metatron mysticism which revolves round the person of Enoch who was raised to the rank of first of the angels." "1959 D. D. Runes Conc. Dict. Judaism 168/2 Metatron the highest of the angel[s], identified with the archangel Michael, or Enoch who was transformed into a heavenly being; a mystic figure." Thats what I've found hope it's of intrest, you gotta love the OED. -- Shimirel (Talk) 14:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I do love the OED.
Is it telling us that there's an English suffix "-tron" from τρυτανή (trutanê, and I'm just hoping I got that right)? That there's an ancient Greek suffix "-tron"? I didn't quite follow what you said. Maybe I should get myself to where there's a big OED. —JerryFriedman 23:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Alexander, cited in the article, likes the Latin and Greek etymologies (metator, meta thronos, and meta turannos, next to the ruler). You gotta love Amazon book search. —JerryFriedman 01:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah it is kind of confusing because theres umpteen different listings for tron.
1. tron(e weight) / tron / trone - the standard of weight used at the tron.
2. tron(e-pound) - the pound of tron weight 21-28 ounces.
3. tron(e-stone) - a stone of tron weight.
4. tron- meaning enthronement only used in one book (rare) according to mey OED the full word was 'tronizacyon'.
5. tron as a noun (or trone) is taken from the greek word Trutänh balance, pair of scales and is used in this sence quite extensively (1290 - 1861).
6. -tron is described as a greek instumental suffix but used in different places as a suffix in physics for particles (negatron, mesotron) or names of machines in physics (cyclotron, levitron).
another rare use is to mean throne. As I said quite a few versions hope that helps; fyi I looked up metator its listed on OED as setting in order. The OED is a great buy if a bit pricey I bought this cd of it years back and its supperb if a bit out of date now. It just about runs on windows xp lol. -- Shimirel (Talk) 09:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I suggest to the moderators of this entry to add this link to the scholarly article on the etymologies of the name Metatron : http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/metatronname --Enochmetatron (talk) 02:13, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Mistake in Hebrew

Hi.. it looks like the Hebrew version of the name (second word of the article) is messed up. I can't edit Hebrew on my computer, will someone fix it please. Zargulon (talk) 22:27, 9 January 2011 (UTC)


Metatron as the Shekinah

I am not sure if is at all correct to refer to Metatron as a 'he' since the Archangel is held by several important kabbalistic texts, including the Zohar, as being the Supreme Theophany of the Shekinah, who is female. Note also that there are two positions of Metatron in the etz ha-chaim (the Tree of Life), one in Malkut the other in Keter. Metatron in Keter is the Shekinah. Metatron in Malkut is what the Prophet Enoch ascended to. Ahwa85 03:43, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Where'd you get this? I've been studying Qabbalah for the past few years, and I've never heard of any connection of Metatron with the Shekhinah. Everything I've read has identified the Shekhinah with Malkhuth. Hiergargo 22:56, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

You've never heard of the connection of the Shekinah with Metatron and you've studied Kabbalah for several years!? Every major kabbalistic text that deals with angelology that I know of glosses it, including the Soncino Press (partial) translation of the Book of Splendor (Zohar). Also there are two theophanies of Metatron: One in the first sphere and the last one in the tenth. This is why you have two spellings of Metatron in Hebrew. One with six letters and the other with seven letters. The six letter spelling is Metatron of Malkut. The seven letter spelling is Metatron (or Metattron) in Keter. Look it up if you don't believe me! Ahwa85 09:17, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

http://www.yashanet.com/studies/revstudy/rev4f.htm Ahwa85 03:48, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Just because the Shekhina represents the female principle (whatever that means; and it probably does not mean woman in the biological sense) or just because it is grammatically a feminine word, does not make anything associated with it (possibly) also a "she". For one, take a look at the Targum Yonathan in Genesis when the passage with Enoch is translated. There he refers to the transformation into Mitatron, the "Safra Rabba" (great scribe). It is always kept grammatically male.

Now--here's the main point. Just because two ideas may be linked, it does not mean that they must have the same grammatical gender (that is ALL we are talking about--this is not a place to score feminist points; this is not a conversation about females humans). I would be hard-pressed to find even one instance where the name "Metatron" is used in a sentence with a feminie grammatical construct. That being the case...we're done.

Another example of this would be Gevura. Let us say....for argument's sake...that I want to compare Gevura to Din and Chesed to Rachamim (in fact, however, they ARE NOT!!! the same). Now would I have to turn hebrew grammar inside out to make gevura and din the same GRAMMATICAL gender? 70.107.145.220 (talk) 04:29, 21 January 2008 (UTC)SMORR

Because Merkaba has so little cohesion (being more accounts, of study), I suggest that a "consensus view" (two or more sources) be used when making an argument. Merkaba Study and the corpus of Hekalot text very greatly, being a field of active study based in possibles and, interpretation(Mysticism). So the best we could do, objectively, to describe the components of this field is to: list all (primary-source citeable) specific components, list all specific components (without time-bias to citation ), list only the specific components that have a "consensus view" (with or without time-bias) or, not list specific components i.e. Metetron, as it's aspects relate to Merkaba- Which in this case, would essentially be most information about Metetron.

We can't argue about the validity of a primary source, or it's confliction. we should argue and come to a consensus on which information is viable to a general understanding- or we cease to be a dictionary and become authors of a mystic text.

Until we can reach one of these views, I'd suggest we leave all cited-specifics without bias in, and work on sub heading the sources; Until the entry becomes too bloated. --Ashadeofdarkness (talk) 19:25, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Enoch vs. Metatron ; Metatron vs. Holy Spirit

  • Questions
  • Is Enoch believed to be Metatron ?


King of Angels is not a title of the Holy Spirit, it is a title of Jesus Christ. --Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 15:40, 28 July 2010 (UTC)


  • 3rd enoch relates an account of enoch transfigured into metatron (there's one other account of this happening in Elijah's transfiguration into Sandalphon.
  • The holy spirit is the Shekhinah(actually it's alittle more complicated then that. Christan bibles translate to holy spirit. In some sects of Judaism it's been an argument of what the Shekhinah might be/represent [god's thorn, one of trees or gates in Eden, god's feminine influence, halo? etc.. in third Enoch god took the Shekhinah out of Eden before the flood, and before he took up Enoch, so Enoch isn't the Shekhinah/Holyspirt.
  • The angels are supposed to obey Metatron, and that he would deal with the earth from then on as a proxy for god- but i wouldn't say he's the king angel- the angels don't like Enoch or Metatron because he used to be human and, is now in heaven.
  • lots of borrowing from Jewish mysticism-borrowed from Babylon-etc. in some circles jesus is metatron.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashadeofdarkness (talk • contribs) 13:08, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Picture of Abraham

This line "Metatron 'as God’s mediator with men' may have been the angel who prevented Abraham from sacrificing Isaac in the bible story." Is original research if it is not supported by a source. For now I'm going to add a citation needed tag. The source given only supports the "God's mediator" claim, it does not speculate on who intervened to save Isaac. Smitty1337 (talk) 08:11, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Removal of Eisenmenger en Weor

I removed the lines about Eisenmenger and Weor since neither could possibly be considered authorities — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.108.92.105 (talk) 15:07, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Tanach

Tanach is the Hebrew word for bible, it is not a name. It should say bibl instead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.120.136.227 (talk) 08:19, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Metatron in Media

The following subsections were in the article in October 2010. I am not convinced they should all be removed.--Rumping (talk) 15:00, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering why Alan Rickman was in the "See also". I mean, he's awesome and all, but still... :D Psu256 (talk) 18:07, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Literature

Metatron figures prominently in the third installment of His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman as the chief enforcer of the Authority (a high ranking angel pretending to be God) and a major antagonist. In the novel The Amber Spyglass, it is revealed that Metatron was at one time Enoch (see Origins above) and that Enoch encountered Yahweh 4,000 years before the events of the story. Transformed into an angel, Enoch became his Regent, charged with the task of exercising the will of the Authority. Metatron now vehemently persecutes all who oppose the Authority.

Metatron also appears in Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett, described as "the Voice of God. But not the voice of God. An entity in its own right. Rather like a Presidential spokesman".

Sol Yurick wrote "Metatron," published by Semiotext(e) in 1985. The more complete name is "Behold Metatron, the Recording Angel," which appears on the title page inside. It might be of interest to those interested in the questions concerning technology and other symptomotology known as the post-modern (or post-human) condition: "All knowledge is in the process of being converted to computer compatibility. The old 'philosopher's stone' could convert base metals into gold. Now humans, real estate, social relations are converted into electronic signs carried in an electronic plasma. The dream of magical control has never been exorcised. . . ."

Metatron is a character in Tony Kushner's one-act play Dr. Arnold A. Hutschnecker in Paradise. He is portrayed as a "vast fiery being with a million eyes" and works as a psychoanalyst.[1]

Film

In Kevin Smith's movie, Dogma, Metatron (portrayed by Alan Rickman) introduces himself as "herald of the Almighty" and the "voice of God." Although the film portrays Metatron in a comic light (as both sardonic and vain), the character is depicted as having a close relationship to God, and superiority over other angels. Metatron expresses irritation when the main character Bethany does not recognize his name, but immediately picks up on a reference to the tenth plague.

Music

'Lungfish', a band from Baltimore, Maryland, have a song "Metatron" on their 1999 album "The Unanimous Hour." [2]

'The Mars Volta', a band from El Paso, Texas, have a song "Metatron" on their 2008 album "The Bedlam in Goliath."

The Bad Plus have a song on their album, Never Stop, called "My Friend Metatron"

The Finnish death rock band Babylon Whores has a song named "Metatron" on their 1997 debut album "Cold Heaven".

Tony Bones Ft. Freeway & Bizzy Bone (excerpt from bizzy's verse: "Metatron Much Love")

Video Games

Metatron appears in several Shin Megami Tensei games as a powerful persona that the player can either fight against or use as an ally. He is the final form the the Aeon Arcana in Persona 3 Fes Edition.

Silent Hill 3 features an item call the "seal of Metatron".

Metatron features widely in Hideo Kojima's less popular (but equally brilliant) video game series "Zone of the Enders" and all its offshoots. New forms of manned robots termed orbital frames are developed from Metatron ore in outer space. Possessing unprecedented power orbital frames sway the tide of the martian war of independence led by BAHRAM.

Notably extended exposure to Metatron can lead to absolute madness and possession by "the will of Metatron" e.g. Radium Lavans in the OVA Movie IDOLO and Nohman in The second runner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.185.33.115 (talk) 07:37, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Kushner, Tony (December 30, 2001). "THE LIVES THEY LIVED: ARNOLD HUTSCHNECKER, B. 1898; A Shrink in Paradise". The New York Times.
  2. ^ [1]

Referenced in video game FEZ

In order to solve one of the puzzles player is asked in a ciphered manner to answer a "Security question" riddle:

"My first half is what it is. My second half is half of what made it."

The answer is "Metatron".


Technically a major potential sidequest spoiler, but occultism/teology is too far from gaming to spoil the fun on occasion of some gamer reading this page before playing the game.


--Erquint (talk) 01:23, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Anafiel

I've come across this name, is Metatron also Anafiel / "Branch of God"? Twillisjr (talk) 02:03, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Metatron= Changing Energy

Name of God= Changing Energy http://www.thefreedictionary.com/meta http://wordinfo.info/unit/2190--Prestigiouzman (talk) 11:58, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

B-Class?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'd expect more than a lede and etymology and origins sections from a B-class article. How about a section on his attributes/powers, for starters? -Wormcast (talk) 22:44, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

No references to MemTet?

This introduction says there are no references to MemTet (a abbreviation for Metatr-n) in the Bible. This sentence needs to be revised. There are TONS of references to MemTet in the Torah, just not explicitly by that name, which came about sometime in the Talmudic era. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BRBurton (talk • contribs) 18:26, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

"Dualism"?

In the Origins section this sentence appears:

"However, Kirkisani may have misrepresented the Talmud in order to embarrass his Rabbanite opponents with evidence of dualism."

Aside from seeming pretty POV, surely the author intends

"However, Kirkisani may have misrepresented the Talmud in order to embarrass his Rabbanite opponents with evidence of polytheism."

At the page devoted to Dualism to which the embedded link points, neither the "original" nor the "common" usage of that word suggests any kind of polytheism. Rt3368 (talk) 22:16, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I'll change "dualism" to "polytheism" now. Rt3368 (talk) 00:08, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

The statement of "dualism" is more accurate than "polytheism" — Preceding unsigned comment added by BRBurton (talk • contribs) 18:28, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Metatron in Islam

If anyone is interested in the Islamic view of Metatron (Mitatrush) then here's a few books to check out:

Angels in Islam: Jalal Al-Din Al-Suyuti's Al-Haba'ik Fi Akhbar Al-mala'ik

Magic in Islam — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.230.184.59 (talk) 21:56, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

removed comment

I removed this comment from inside an url:

I'm just adding, putting this out there: in gimatria Metatron מטטרון is also the same numerical value as "י"ה"ו"ה זעירא", aramaic for "lesser YHVH", so it seems that's solved!

(זעירא is also the letters אזעיר - Uzair, (mentioned in the Koran,) maybe connected to Ezra - עזרא.)

Also, to explain the significance of "Shaddai": at least in later kabala, the 10 sefirot correspond to 10 names of God. שד"י "Shaddai" is the name that corresponds to Yesod, directly underneath the sefira of Tiferet, which corresponds to the name YHVH the name

While this clearly does not belong inside an reference (or inside the article body as long as it is in this form), may be someone is still interested in this. So I copied it to the talk page. Gehenna1510 (talk) 19:54, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Metatron/Archive_1&oldid=1165102647"