Talk:Mecca/Archive 4

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Ibn Battutah section has incorrect and contradicting data

In the section titled, "Ibn Battuta description of Mecca" it states, "One of the world travelers to Mecca in the fifteenth century was Ibn Battuta" note the fifteenth century. Ibn Battuta was born in the year 1304 and died in 1377. He could not have been a "Fifteenth-century traveler" as he had died 24 years before such time. This is then coupled with a contradictory and false claim that states, "Around the year 729, Ibn Battuta arrived in Mecca." This is again proven false as stated before, he was born in 1304, 575 years after the stated time. Ibn Battuta actually arrived in Mecca in the year 1326. The confusion is that the 729 models is likely based off of the Islamic calendar, however as the rest of the article uses the Gregorian Calendar, it would seem odd to make an exception as that may seem rather misleading. Malcolm x visited mecca to become a Muslim. 22radioactive22 (talk) 01:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

References

'This movement is commonly known as the Wahhabi movement. It has been also influenced by the Shafi`i school.'

This information is incorrect. The Mouwahhadeen movement ended when the first Saudi State was formed in the 18th century CE. The Hambali school of fiqha jurisprudence is the official 'madhab' or the 'way of method' to deduce the Prophet's Sunnah in the detailed matters relegated to the mental intellectual striving by the Prophetic Hadith.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by ILAKNA (talk • contribs) 16:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

As of april 2014, pictures are obsolete.

The new three-stages round-about in the court can be seen in GoogleMaps and other sources. There is not any PD picture available?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.165.112.219 (talk • contribs) 16:41, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

I am nominating this article under GAN

Thank you all for contributing to this article. After the edits I carried out yesterday, I feel like this article is worthy of GA status. --AccordingClass (talk) 02:22, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mecca/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ovinus Real (talk · contribs) 06:51, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

The file https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Holy_capital_(Makkah_City).png, which is used as the "official flag" of Mecca (which there is no source for, by the way) appears to be a copyright violation. I will put the nomination on hold until these copyvios are removed; if they aren't removed within a week or so I will close the nomination. Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 20:25, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Done; but I have kept the emblem.--AccordingClass (talk) 07:28, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

@AccordingClass: I'm afraid the emblem is also a copyvio... by the same person Ovinus (talk) 21:34, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

@Ovinus Real: Thanks for pointing it out. I've removed it... and thanks for going ahead with the review. --AccordingClass (talk) 22:45, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Of course, it's not your fault we have a prolific copyright violator in our midst. XD I shall proceed in a few hours when I get home. Ovinus (talk) 23:48, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Immediate failure criteria

1. Approved
2. Approved I ran the copyvio detector, which produced https://madeinholyland.net/mecca/, but that's a copy of this page (not the other way around). The aforementioned copyvios have been removed
3. Approved
4. Approved
5. Not applicable

Shall continue to the full review. Ovinus (talk) 00:05, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

@Ovinus Real: Any updates on the review? -AccordingClass (talk) 14:33, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Sorry about the delay AccordingClass, I'll start reviewing it now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ovinus Real (talk • contribs) 01:46, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there are some pretty serious issues that need to be addressed before I can pass this nomination. Paragraphs in Architectural Landmarks, Religion, Education, Economy, Geography, Modern history, Medieval and pre-modern times, Muhammad and the conquest of Mecca, and Under the Quraish are undersourced or lack sources. Thus I think I need to fail the nomination. I hope to see this article back here with more references some time. Sincerely, Ovinus (talk) 03:40, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

I have added some citation needed tags to help with locating places that definitely need more sources. Also, the section Ibn Battuta's description of Mecca relies on a single source, and should probably be merged into the rest of the article. Sincerely, Ovinus (talk) 04:26, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Religon

I see people getting triggered over religion associated with Makkah. To all of you, you are simply wrong. Makkah is a city which cant be talked about without Involving Islam. Culture, Tourism etc. can not be talked about without Islam. Makkah is the holiest city in islam. you just simply cant talk about makkah without talking about Islam.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by AbdulRehman sattar (talk • contribs) 19:37, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

List of former leaders?

It might be good to make a list of former leaders.

In WWI it seems Sherif Ali Haidar Pasha was the emir, as seen in Servet-i-Funun https://archives.saltresearch.org/bitstream/123456789/129372/725/PFSIF9180926A116.jpg WhisperToMe (talk) 22:31, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Macoraba versus Mecca

This part of the article is problematic, as the source in footnote 24 used to support the claim is actually contracting it, stating that the consensus saying that Mecca and Macoraba are the same place is, in fact, wrong.

The consensus in academic scholarship is that "Macoraba", the place mentioned in Arabia Felix by Claudius Ptolemy, is Mecca. Many etymologies have been proposed but the most suitable one is that it is derived from the Old South Arabian root "M-K-R-B" which means temple.[24][25] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:171B:C9AC:42F0:4CEA:C853:425A:5CD (talk) 12:44, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for raising this question, which is certainly valid. I don't know that we can say that it is "wrong" based on one study but we certainly need to be more circumspect about saying that it is right. I have rewritten the paragraph so that it now reads

The historic consensus in academic scholarship has long been that "Macoraba", the place mentioned in Arabia Felix by Claudius Ptolemy, is Mecca. More recent study has questioned this association. Many etymologies have been proposed: the traditional one is that it is derived from the Old South Arabian root "M-K-R-B" which means temple.

Does that seem reasonable? I'm a bit concerned that M-K-R-B is more obviously an antecedent for Macoraba than it is for Mecca.--John Maynard Friedman (talk) 16:52, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

References

Metropolis

Assalam Alaikum Wikipedians. Is Makkah a metropolis ? - Techsuper (talk · contribs)

Yes it is one of the biggest and important cities in Arabia Essa5225 (talk) 04:28, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

But whether or not it qualifies 'officially' as a metropolis is not something that Wikipedia can decide. If a wp:reliable source says it is, then we can report that, citing the source. Until then, we can't. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 15:47, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Change name

I request to change "Mecca" into Al-Makkah Al-Mukarramah or atleast just "Makkah". Mecca is the the wrong word and leads to wrong pronunciation by everyone. In arabic its pronounced Makkah not mecca. Please change it asap — Preceding unsigned comment added by AbdulRehman sattar (talk • contribs) 20:01, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

AbdulRehman sattar, Mecca is the WP:COMMONNAME of the city. See also WP:ENG and MOS:ISLAM. Jalen Folf (talk) 20:22, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

kindly i am an arabic an i live in saudi arabia. mecca isnt the common name. in majority of arab countries and in most muslim countries its called "Makkah". Mecca isnt the common name anywhere as it promotes the wrong pronounciation. The city is pronounced mak-kah and not meek-ka. please change it to correct word

kindly i am an arabic an i live in saudi arabia. mecca isnt the common name. in majority of arab countries and in most muslim countries its called "Makkah". Mecca isnt the common name anywhere as it promotes the wrong pronounciation. The city is pronounced mak-kah and not meek-ka. please change it to correct word AbdulRehman sattar (talk) 20:48, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I spent some years of my childhood hearing the muezzin's call to prayer several times every day. I speak North American English as my first language, and can verify that the common name is "Mecca" here. We do not say "meek-ka" but "mek-ka" with a short vowel in the first syllable. If you heard it, you would very probably understand. For the purposes of the English language Wikipedia, "Mecca" is the correct word. Be well, Just plain Bill (talk) 21:14, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Mecca is not wrong. It is simply the English name. I have noticed that someone has inappropriately changed the usage within this article to "Makkah" and have started to correct this. I will continue this correction later, as I do not currently have the time to complete it.--Khajidha (talk) 21:57, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

calling mecca for Makkah is like calling "Lindane for London" which is wrong and unacceptable. Alexwharf001 (talk) 00:12, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

The Italian Wikipedia uses the name Londra for London and Parigi for Paris. This is not wrong: these are the versions commonly used in Italian. The English Wikipedia article Florence is a "wrong" in your terms, it should be Firenze. "Mecca" is just another example. I suspect that the Arabic Wikipedia has similar transliterations and local approximations of place names outside Arabia: these are not wrong, that is just how it is in the real world. Wikipedia records what is widely used in many reliable sources, not what a few editors think it should be. If you search en.wikipedia with the word 'Makkah', you will arrive at this article (and you will see the true name in Arabic at the top of the infobox). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 09:45, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes the correct name is Makkah not Mecca Fahd1ahmed (talk) 07:31, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

• In Spanish, the spelling used is es:La Meca, Italian: it:La Mecca, Danish: da:Mekka, French: fr:La Mecque, Tamal: ta:மக்கா, Japanese: jp:メッカ, Korean: ko:메카 Have you all added comments to their respective talk pages? I believe that the topic is in about 179 languages. ban:Mekkah is the only one of about 15 I've looked at that uses "Mekkah". Adakiko (talk) 08:51, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
• Dictionaries don't use "Mekkah" - Dictionary.com Mekkah, wikt:Mekkah, Merriam Webster: Mekkah

Dictionaries do use "Mecca" and mention "Mekkah" as an alternative spelling - Dictionary.com Mecca, wikt:Mecca, Merriam Webster: Mecca Adakiko (talk) 20:56, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Flag of Mecca.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:37, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

question

Hello, according to historical documents and according to the article of Ali Ibn Abi Talib (a.s.), Imam Ali (a.s.) was born inside the Kaaba and the city of Makkah. I read this article, so why is this topic not included in it? AHEJJWILEMAMALIDGED (talk) 11:30, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Please reply AHEJJWILEMAMALIDGED (talk) 05:39, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• ClockTower Makkah.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:21, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Etymology

Until Herbertrogers67 changed it on 16 May, the Etymology section read:

As with many Arabic words, its etymology is obscure.

HR67's version reads

Mecca originally meant “skull-crusher”, and Bakkah originally meant “eye-gouger.” The Arabs were known to give their prized cities terrifying names to ward off evil spirits and would-be invaders.

(note Versteegh citation has not been removed).

These sources can't both be right. Are there more sources to show a consensus of expert opinion? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:08, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

The 'obscure' statement needs restoring, and the novel one contextualized and better supported. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:34, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

The same context/support is needed for the similar line that's been inserted at Medina. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:38, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

I found an additional reference that supports the statement. I’ll add it to the section. Herbertrogers67 (talk) 02:12, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I've restored the original version, and done the same at Medina. The newly cited author, Mohamad Jebara, as far as I can tell, is an imam and a visual artist (according to his publisher), not an academic historian, linguist, or Semiticist. I'm also concerned that nearly all Herbertrogers67's edits have been about this particular book or involve adding citations and mentions of this book across dozens of articles, which makes me suspect a WP:COI. R Prazeres (talk) 20:50, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I’m new to wikipedia and was helping on an article about a book that I recently read. How is that a conflict of interest? There was a note about having the article connect to others on the site and that’s what I tried to do. I connected the articles with similar topics to the page and added some content and references, as was my understanding of what Wikipedia requires. If I’m missing something, I’d appreciate it if you can explain it me. Thanks! Herbertrogers67 (talk) 23:49, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2023

Correct name is Makkah not Mecca 185.12.164.3 (talk) 08:19, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:05, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

This question has been raised before and the answer is still the same. The name used in English is "Mecca", so per policy WP:Common name, that is what we use in the English language Wikipedia. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 21:51, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Misleading research - Recent research suggests that Mecca was a small town and its population at the time of Muhammad has been estimated to be around 550.

Having read the abstract, this claim seems misleading given it is a statistics based study - not an archeological one. PolyCreator (talk) 18:33, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

There are quite a few potential balance issues in the History section of this article, with a lot of weighting towards hagarist historians.

regarding the specific claim, I think we should report it as something a scholar has said, but not necessarily (as it currently is) like it reflects consensus in the sources. Yr Enw (talk) 19:26, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request

It should be semi-protected. holiest sight of the second largest religion, Islam Nurusa101 (talk) 01:24, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Nothing to do, since no edit requested to this already semi-protected article. —C.Fred (talk) 02:55, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

{{Edit semi-protected}}, it is not semi-protected Nurusa101 (talk) 21:44, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Nevermind it is, then why is the lock icon not showing up on the homepage of the article? Nurusa101 (talk) 21:45, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Added appropriate Icon Nurusa101 (talk) 21:48, 9 January 2024 (UTC)